S06.E05: Season 6, Episode 5

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Neville Chamberlain visits Downton for dinner and is drawn into Violet's plan to save the hospital with distressing consequences for everyone. Andy finds an unexpected confidante while helping Mr. Mason move into Yew Tree Farm, Mary is uncertain if she has met her match, Edith meets Bertie Pelham in London, and Spratt comes to Denker's aid. Mrs Hughes struggles to keep Carson happy, while Mary thinks secrets are being kept from her.

[Tetraneutron]

Given how despised Neville Chamberlain is today, I can't imagine the show will want us to side with him no matter the context. So I expect Violet wins the incredibly boring hospital argument.

[CofCinci]

We were expecting Robert's health issue for a while now -- but, wholey moley, I was not expecting all that blood and I was expecting to feel during the "If this is the end, know that I always loved you." line.

And I was not expecting Mary to learn about Marigold either.

 

Denker is one lucky bitch.

[lorbeer]

I'm glad Robert's lived. No need for another mourning drama and I really like the character.

Well, Mary's been given so obvious tips she had to find out about Marigold - and still she doesn't know what it is. It was only some ring bell for her. But I'm sure she'll find out soon.

 

Does anyone else think Mary should marry Tom? :) I know it's quite strange because they're like borther and sister to each other. But on the other hand I don't think there's anybode deserves Mary and the same with Tom.

[MissLucas]

I won't be distracted by some dramatically spilled blood (though well played show)!!! Damn it we got some glorious, glorious outfits today and nobody will talk about them because of that ill-timed ulcer bursting - so I shall do it right here. We had a serious coat extravaganza starting with the one worn by Lady Mary at the racetrack and then the spectacular thing worn by Edith in London and at Downton, Cora's coat wasn't too shabby either. And I adored Isobel's frock for the battle royal. We also had not one but two tiara sightings - the ladies (and gentlemen) over at the Royal Order of Sartorial Splendor will be in raptures. But Lady Edith was the overall winner first with the blue and lime green ensemble worn in the park and then in that heavenly red and gold lame dress. That was awesome. (Plus Lady Mary and Lady Edith are finally allowed to openly wear make-up. Laura Carmichael looked spectacular in the scene in her flat.)

 

*Cough* Right there was some plot too. Glad to see that Downton's pigs were not forgotten. Who would know that in the end they'd provide romance for Mrs Patmore and Daisy AND a redemption arc for Thomas. May they never see the slaughterhouse - heavenly useful creatures that they are!

 

And another tedious crime plot resolved. Although I'm not too keen on yet another one I think I would be fine with Mrs Hughes making sure her pompous husband will never again complain about her cooking.

 

Nothing really new on the Mary/Henry/Tom front except lots of ambiguity (again, well played show). I still don't care about Denker and Spratt or the hospital.

 

And look: Lady Mary is finally catching up on Marigold. I loved Anna's deer-in-headlights reaction when Lady Mary asked her about the servants opinion about the girl. (It more or less confirmed that the downstairs folks are one step ahead of her ladyship.) Carson reminding Baxter and Anna to make sure Lady Edith would be looked after since she had no maid of her own was glorious. After years of speculation on message boards whether she has a maid or not this was the best moment to clear that up!

Edited October 18, 2015 by MissLucas

[lorbeer]

Actually I wonder why is that? Why Edith doesn't have a maid? Is it because she never married?

[Andorra]

LOL, we all saw it coming, but it was still quite shocking when Robert spilled all that blood over the table! I'm glad he is alright. I always had a soft spot for him, even when he was such an arse to Tom after Sybil died!

 

Speaking of Tom. We had 4! intimate conversations between Mary and Tom this episode. And not one scene of just Mary and her supposed endgame Talbot?! What is this???

 

Tom seems to play matchmaker, but is he really? Or is he really making his case? Talking about the balance in a relationship and that between him and Sybil it was balanced and a marriage of equals even though from an outside POV he was the poor nothing and she was the rich Lady.

 

Is all this talk really about Talbot?? Why does JF make no effort to bring us behind the relationship then? He barely shows them together and if he does,  Henry seems to get more along with Tom than with Mary!

 

Then after Robert's bursting ulcer, Tom is the man of the house and very self assured says Goodbye to the illustrous guest. Yet another scene that made me think: Brary.

 

And then finally Mary telling Tom that they have to take over now. That it must be their responsibility now and Robert must not worry any more.

 

I'm still waving my Brary flag. I can't help it. There must be a reason for these scenes.

[MissLucas]

Actually I wonder why is that? Why Edith doesn't have a maid? Is it because she never married?

I think that is the explanation - not sure at which point Anna became officially Lady Mary's maid. At the beginning she was head housemaid. Obviously all three daughters had some help with their wardrobe by Anna or one of the other housemaids. I do wonder though who was responsible for Lady Edith's wave in London as I don't think she could just drag a housemaid along. I'm probably overthinking this.

[lorbeer]

I think that is the explanation - not sure at which point Anna became officially Lady Mary's maid. At the beginning she was head housemaid. Obviously all three daughters had some help with their wardrobe by Anna or one of the other housemaids. I do wonder though who was responsible for Lady Edith's wave in London as I don't think she could just drag a housemaid along. I'm probably overthinking this.

Well, that must be it. I suposse she hired some maid/s in London because I can't see her cleaning the flat either. So one maid here one maid there and there's always someone to help... propably ;)

I'm still waving my Brary flag. I can't help it. There must be a reason for these scenes.

Oh I would be so happy.. I think they belong to each other :)

[Brn2bwild]

Want to watch for the Tom/Mary scenes, but am really leery after hearing about Robert's "Alien" turn.

[hafo]

Damn it we got some glorious, glorious outfits today [...] Laura Carmichael looked spectacular in the scene in her flat.

AGREED! Edith was stunning. I'm so glad to see her happy ending in sight.

Loved the development in this episode. I really wonder what Mary's course of action will be now that she knows about Marigold. The atmosphere was quite ominous...

Also, I'm glad Robert survived. His almost last words were touching.

Tom seems to play matchmaker, but is he really? Or is he really making his case? Talking about the balance in a relationship and that between him and Sybil it was balanced and a marriage of equals even though from an outside POV he was the poor nothing and she was the rich Lady.

It wasn't just that scene between Tom and Mary, but Mr. and Mrs. Bates both agreed that Mary would want someone who could "bring something to the table" or something to that effect. Plus all of the shots of the two of them standing together and looking over Downton. I've got my Brary goggles on but I'm still counting it as a real possibility. Matthew Goode is charming though, and after this episode I felt I might not mind him with Mary. With all this foreshadowing about equals, I wonder how they will show him to be Mary's?

Do you think the show was hinting that Tom might be involved in the car crash? I think we might be headed that way. I'm 100% sure Tom will live but if he is in a car crash it could be the pivotal moment if Tom/Mary turns out to be a go.

[Avaleigh]

It actually has been addressed before it's just been easy to miss. Madge looked after Edith but it was announced this season that she got another job. Anna became Mary's maid after Mary married. When Anna was still head housemaid she looked after the three girls but would occasionally get help via O'Brien (when Mrs Hughes forced her).

Madge wasn't Edith's official maid because Edith hasn't married. It's likely that Madge would have received a promotion if Edith had married Strallan.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Lady Grump]

I enjoyed this episode tremendously. And like everyone else, was expecting some illness for LG, but did not expect THAT! WHOA! My hands immediately shot up to my mouth in WTF!? horror! Well played show, indeed!

 

Edith DID look glorious tonight. And generally speaking, was glorious.

 

The costuming was a special treat. And I laughed -- a lot!

 

Probably one of the better episodes of all time.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Lady Grump

[Kirsty]

Crikey. Well, lots to talk about in this one. There was a warning for a bloody and shocking scene given before the episode began, which I was glad of. I don't think anyone would have been surprised to see the Earl simply collapse at dinner; probably half the viewers were expecting a heart attack. But Brn2bwild is right: what we got was like something from the Alien movies, lol. (Downton Zombie? Walking Dead Crawleys? Upstairs Zombie, Downstairs Zombie?) Robert spraying blood across the table, with the blood splattering on his wife was quite shocking and gruesome. It was such a dramatic change of tone for the show that the contrast with the typical DA dinner party was slightly hilarious. But I liked it.

I thought the Earl was a goner, but this must mark the beginning of his retirement instead.

Bertie is a sweetheart, and I'm pleased to see Edith living her own life and enjoying it. He put his cards on the table with regard to his feelings for her, but I'm not sure how she feels about him just yet.

Carson clearly needs a gentle kick up the arse, and I hope his bride will do the honours.

Is that Andy's dark secret? I was hoping it was homosexuality not illiteracy. This is all kind of sad and lonely for Thomas, but I suppose that's tragically realistic for the period.

Anna and Bates had a happy scene together! Maybe it means he's about to go on another killing spree... ;)

I liked the way Lady Mary found out about Marigold in a moment of crisis. It rang true.

I cracked up when we got the dramatic music for the ACTION SCENE that was Henry Talbot's car race. But if a happy ever after with Henry is the plan, the show really needs to pick up the pace.

Okay, can we talk about Mary/Tom? On any normal show, where things make sense, that final scene between Mary and Tom would have included a touch or a kiss or a hug that led to a charged moment between them. For Chrissake, way to throw away an opportunity! They've both had a shock, they feared the Earl was dead or dying, it's nighttime, there's no one else around and he approaches her outside her bedroom, you can see all over Mary's face that her life has changed and her perspective has changed, and there's Tom to support her as usual. I legit thought something was about to happen between them just then.

Leaving that aside to focus on what actually happened... their first conversation about their personal lives was going well, but then Mary admitted she wouldn't "marry down" and Tom spoke about his marriage to her sister. And combined with his comments and advice on Mary's love life at the track and in the pub, it seemed like the whole thing added up to... Tom is a Henry/Mary shipper.

If this is all building to Mary/Tom, it's far subtler than any romantic relationship on the show to date. So subtle that no one can tell if it's happening.

Then after Robert's bursting ulcer, Tom is the man of the house and very self assured says Goodbye to the illustrous guest. Yet another scene that made me think: Brary.

Right? He sees off a member of Cabinet comfortably! And he previously rescued him from an awkward conversation. Tom has obviously come a long way in his social interaction with the cream of society.

Do you think the show was hinting that Tom might be involved in the car crash? I think we might be headed that way. I'm 100% sure Tom will live but if he is in a car crash it could be the pivotal moment if Tom/Mary turns out to be a go.

hafo, I really like that idea, and this episode would work as set-up for it. And it totally fits with JF's loopy and repetitive style of plotting. But it's going to look daft, corny, and unconvincing if both Mary *and* Tom need a car crash to become aware of their feelings. For it to work, Tom would have to indicate to the viewers that he has feelings for Mary before any car crash leads to an epiphany for her.

[hafo]

hafo, I really like that idea, and this episode would work as set-up for it. And it totally fits with JF's weird, repetitive style of plotting. But it's going to look daft, corny, and unconvincing if both Mary *and* Tom need a car crash to become aware of their feelings. For it to work, Tom would have to indicate to the viewers that he has feelings for Mary before any car crash leads to an epiphany for her.

See, I feel like he does, but the show would have to make it obvious (probably by the end of the next episode). Subtle things like him deciding to come back to Downton permanently, asking if she regrets dismissing her suitors, the way he looks at her, making his case for a marriage of equals, "real love means giving someone the power to hurt you." I don't see how that applies to Henry at this point, but it could apply to Tom if he has feelings for Mary. But they missed that moment at the end of this episode (it was a poignant moment for Mary instead about her role at Downton). And then you have him supporting her relationship with Henry, although non-commitally - "you don't have to marry him".

So I'll be looking to the next episode for clarification.

[Glade]

It would have been much more powerful if Robert had died, and I wish he had, as that is an inevitability that could move the plot forward and start to end the show rather then dragging it out forever.  It's too bad no one thought to get an aristocratic doctor to see him at home and make blase comments instead of driving him to the hospital. I would not be sad to see him go.

 

The acting was so poor and unbelievable in that scene with Dencker and the Dr., I had to just fast-forward through the rest of her scenes.  I do not care, and nor do I buy that the residents of downton are sitting around discussing this plot.   They couldn't even bother casting the guy who ruined Baxter?  Another tedious plotline given an extremely boring conclusion.  And next week Violet is still yelling at Robert about the hospital when he's bedridden; get a life! 

 

So there will be a foursome at Yew Tree Farm.  Whatever.  Just end this crap as soon as possible, please!

Edited October 18, 2015 by Glade

[minamurray78]

holy crap, that was rather "alienesque", wasn't it? I guess we've all been waiting for that plot to come to a head, but I never thought it'd be done so dramatically, with blood splattered all over the dining room, and the guests.

 

Also, I'm over everything Denker/Spratt related. I don't like either of them, so whatever awful things they do to each other, they have it coming. Still, it was a ridiculous story, like, Denker  has only been working for Violet for a couple of years, when did she amass the amount of loyalty required to confront the doctor, who's known Violet for decades? Stupid. Also, Pratt is aware that Denker knows about his fugitive nephew, so maybe try to reign it in a little bit? Stupid.

 

I honestly can't offer any theory as to where they are going with Mary. Things with Talbot don't look quite promising: she dislikes the car racing (understandably so), and with Robert's health turned for the worse, she will be even more focused on running the estate, and like the Bates were saying, what would he do in the Abbey? Could the writers really go that way with Tom? It just doesn't quite feel right to me, wonderful sibling-like relationship, but I don't see the romantic spark at all.

Edited October 18, 2015 by minamurray78

[wlk68]

I was seriously pissed when Danker got a reprieve. I cheered out loud when Violet sacked her.

[MissLucas]

It was an odd sub-plot as I thought it somewhat out of character for Dr Clarkson to get upset enough to write a huffy letter to the dowager. As a country Doctor he must be used to some rough language. It did however give us a great scene between Isobel and Violet. Loved Isobel's eyeroll at Violet's distress over getting a new maid and her reaction to Violet's 'unleashing the dogs of war' quote - but my favorite was: 'If I withdrew my friendship from everyone who had spoken ill of me my address book would be empty!

Edited October 19, 2015 by MissLucas

[TyranAmiros]

I knew it was going to be an ulcer scare. Hopefully that's the end of it and Robert just decides to take up grandfathering.

I did like the way they managed in an "I don't like fighting" comment by Chamberlain. Combined with Daisy's complaint, it came very close to breaking the fourth wall. Not as bad as Tom's change of heart on American capitalism or Violet's anti-government health care rant last week, though.

I never guessed Andy was illiterate, but glad that Thomas forced the issue. I doubt that's the end of it, but I'm curious as to how it'll develop.

So I'm calling it that Daisy goes to college and it's Mrs Patmore who keeps Mr Mason company in his old age. But she'll take months to decide.

On Marigold, I think Mary puts the pieces together next episode, but stays quiet that she knows. At least, I'd love to see her do that and not make an issue of it.

[kmm49]

That was so bizarre! Why couldn't they've just given Robert a heart problem? For one thing he never mentioned he had an ulcer that I can remember only just indigestion yet the doctor knew immediately that he had an ulcer and that was what caused his coughing up blood. Did he never prescribe anything for him or was there no medicine for ulcers in the 1920s? Just seemed so out there. Glad he didn't die though. Would an ulcer rupturing really cause that much blood?

Edited October 19, 2015 by kmm49

[TyranAmiros]

He had an ulcer last season, and couldn't drink alcohol until Christmas...Eve.

[foreverevolving]

I'm glad Robert's lived. No need for another mourning drama and I really like the character.

Well, Mary's been given so obvious tips she had to find out about Marigold - and still she doesn't know what it is. It was only some ring bell for her. But I'm sure she'll find out soon.

 

Does anyone else think Mary should marry Tom? :) I know it's quite strange because they're like borther and sister to each other. But on the other hand I don't think there's anybode deserves Mary and the same with Tom.

The thing is, I personally don't believe Marry deserves Tom, he's far too good for her. And I hate to see Tom end up with Mary.

In fact I rather it be none of the sisters (I've had enough disgusting sister swapping stories on Arrow) but rather someone from the outside.

 

I actually found the last scene with Tom and Mary heartbreaking, Tom face literally fell, and you could just see and feel the resentment flying off of him when she corrected him about how the load will now not be lessened from Earl but now will be fully split between her and him.. he's responds? a very beaten down with a touch of undertone resentment "So long live our own queen Mary" and than showing us Mary from a far looking so small and alone in the big house*. I think that while Tom is happy to be back, being in charge, of the estate, is not what he had in mind for the long run. hence his idea for the repair shop.

 

* at the end of the day, Mary is her own worst enemy, she treats everyone like dirt and like as if they owe her something. She is finally getting what she always wanted- to be "queen" of the estate- but i think she is going to find out it's not all she thought it will be. Tom is not Mathew - and I think in a way she is using Tom to replace Mathew in terms of running the estate as partners (the way she assumed it will be Mathew).. except running the estate is not Tom's dream.

On any other TV show Mary would have ended up alone in her big house, raising George and looking after the estate, and well .. probably aging into a mini-violet. but here? I fear that Mary and Tom would be endgame, and I would rather be spoiled in advance so I could stop watching the show. Because, I don't, for one second, truly believe, that Tom can ever be happy married to Mary of all people.

 

As for Edith, I couldn't be happier for her! I felt sad when she told Bertie she was unsure she deserved his affections, I'm assuming part of the reason for it is she fears how he will react when finding out who Marigold really is, but yes I also think she is terrified that he will be another man she'll fall for who will abandon her.

BTW I couldn't quite hear what he said regarding his uncle or cousin in the castle, did he say he had no children? there was something about marriage being spoken I couldn't quite understand the talk... personally I hope he will end up inheriting his cousin titles -didn't they say Hexham is a marquis?

Edited October 19, 2015 by foreverevolving

[minamurray78]

oh, forgot to mention my favourite scene: Cora and Robert with their three grandkids. Loved it!

[Pogojoco]

Ok, Robert spewing blood to basically stop a fight at the dinner table was pretty punk rock. I never knew what happened when an ulcer burst before. 

 

Edith looked quite beautiful. This show is rounding back into early form....I'm still waiting for it to go terrible again. 

[Cherpumple]

I think Robert's "outburst" perfectly sums up my what my reaction would be to a Tom/Mary coupling. I can't imagine a worse outcome for that storyline, and because I no faith in JF, I can't even enjoy their natural and (in my eyes) platonic friendship without worrying that he's dropping hints. Run away, Tom. Run away now!

 

But back to Robert- dang, I was not expecting that! Kudos to the show for actually surprising me. But I'm annoyed that the previews basically ruined any tension that his health scare had built up. Oh well.

 

I liked most of the stuff with Mr. Mason, but I wish everyone wasn't treating his relocation as a completely joyous thing, considering that the Drewes were forced out under uncomfortable circumstances. I know not many people knew the details, but the tone of the storyline is a bit harsh. Also, I'm starting to like Andy more, now that they're giving him a personality, but I can't tell if he actually is interested in Daisy, or just wants to tag along and spend time with her because he wants to be a farmer.

 

I can't believe how pointless the storyline with Baxter was. No resolution, no character insight, no plot advancement, nothing. What a waste of time.

 

Carson is even more of an ass in his own home than he is on the job, and that's saying a lot. Mrs. Hughes better shut down that attitude soon.

 

Loved the scenes with Edith and Mr. It's-not-a-date, but I don't trust that she'll actually get a happily ever after. With one man she loved drowning on the Titanic and another killed by Nazis, she practically the Forrest Gump of bad romantic luck. What's on the cards for this guy- getting caught up in the St. Valentine's Day massacre? The Hindenburg disaster?

 

I'll keep watching until the bitter end, but I can't wait for this show to be over!

[Llywela]

BTW I couldn't quite hear what he said regarding his uncle or cousin in the castle, did he say he had no children? there was something about marriage being spoken I couldn't quite understand the talk... personally I hope he will end up inheriting his cousin titles -didn't they say Hexham is a marquis?

Yes, he said that his castle-owning cousin is not married and has no children, although the family has long had him unofficially engaged to another cousin of some kind. From Bertie's conversation with Edith about his cousin's fondness for living abroad and painting young men, I didn't get the impression said marriage was likely ever to take place!

[Andorra]

I think Edith's storlyline is as clear as the day by now. Marigold will be a minor problem, but in the end she will end up as the Lady of Brancaster of course. Which will be even more interesting if Mary is going to marry down. And I'm sure she will the question is just "how far down".

 

I wonder if Tom's "Real love is giving someone the power to hurt you" is foreshadowing, too? Will Mary be hurt that Tom didn't tell her about Marigold?

Edited October 19, 2015 by Andorra

[sark1624]

I am not from UK but i know that Fellowes its a conservative person and maybe he admires Winston Churchill, for that reason i think that when Chamberlain said that "he dont like figths" in the table, that wasnt a innocent line for the show; i know that in UK and other countries involved in the ww2 the "Appeasement Politic" its like a trauma, especially in the right. 

 

In relation with show, i think that the relation betwen Mary and Talbot its too boring, to ovbius, imo its only based in sexual atraction and nothing else; imo its a like a teenager relation. The two characters dont show any interest in another thing and do nothing more that make "witty" comments about the other.

 

In the other hand and with minor time in the screen i have the sensation that i know more about Bertie, we know so far that is a decent man, and if remember well he said that he was in the army before working as agent in brancaster; maybe for that reason he is no keen in "exciting-cool" stuffs (a lot of men have more than enough with war) and prefer a quietly country life.  

 

And finally, i hate Carson the last episode they said that he was kind, today humiliated his wife in front of daisy and mrs patmore. I think that it could had been a fantastic mini sub plot that Tom had given a warning about for his lack of respect to him because now he is part of the family and is the agent of the state. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by sark1624

[Andorra]

Actually I would have liked if the "shocking scene" would have been Mrs Hughes hitting Carson over the head.

[MissLucas]

I think Mrs Hughes should have worried more about what her future husband expects in the kitchen than in the bedroom. Hopefuly she'll deal with his attitude ASAP.

[Andorra]

BTW, is someone else getting worried about Violet? She seems to work herself in a state over the hospital question and there were a few incidents this episode (and the last) where I thought: "Whoa, she's becoming so fragile" and "has she always been so short winded?"

 

Is it possible Fellows totally mislead us with Robert's death scare and it will be a completely other death to be mourned in the end?

[Fake Jan Brady]

I hope Thomas's teaching materials are from his own personal library and we get a scene of Andy stumbling over passages from the hot off the press 'Death in Venice'.

[MissLucas]

BTW, is someone else getting worried about Violet? She seems to work herself in a state over the hospital question and there were a few incidents this episode (and the last) where I thought: "Whoa, she's becoming so fragile" and "has she always been so short winded?"

 

Is it possible Fellows totally mislead us with Robert's death scare and it will be a completely other death to be mourned in the end?

I've always thought Robert to be a red herring and yes, my money is on Violet. She's the most symbolic character for the old times that are about to disappear and she embodies like no other character the show. She's in more ways than just her age the logical candidate.

[Andorra]

I also think (even though I don't think it would ever happen) that Dame Maggie Smith wouldn't want to leave the door open for Violet's return in a potential movie. She has made very clear that she is out for good now. 

[ElizaD]

IIRC, Fellowes has said that Violet won't die. I thought Robert would, but I certainly didn't expect the dinner scene from Alien!

 

Aww, the pigs! I'm glad they're going to be looked after. I didn't expect Andy's illiteracy either, but it could be a nice storyline.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Damn it, we were so close to being rid of Denker!

 

Yay for Edith! She hired a new editor and got herself a new boyfriend. FInally things are going well for her! I was glad to hear that she knows she doesn't want to just hang around Downton while Queen Mary swans about. So glad that she is already planning to be in London more often. As much as she loves Marigold, I think for now it's good for her to stay at Downton so that she gets to grow up with her cousins.

 

While I like that Thomas was persistent once he figured out that Andy can't read and offered to teach him, I will find it hilarious if everyone starts to think that there is some hanky panky going on with the two of them because they are sneaking around for secret reading classes after Andy spent so much time actively avoiding him.

 

I know that I need to keep everything in historical context and remember what the expected gender roles were during this time but I wanted to smack Carson for acting like such a spoiled brat during his dinner at home.

 

Loved Isobel's dry reactions to everything Violet said when she was having her hissyfit about Sprat.

 

I don't see anything but platonic affection between Tom and Mary and I hope it stays that way. I really like that they are just friends. I also love that Tom always tries to include Edith (which I think he does mostly because he's just a nice guy but partly because he sees what a heinous bitch Mary is to her), like when he invited Edith to go see Henry's car.

 

Hee, I was cracking up in the scene with Robert, Cora, and the grandkids when Cora referred to themselves as Granny and Donk.

 

It was hilarious to watch the wheels ever so slowly turning in Mary's head as she finally started putting together that Marigold is Edith's.

 

ITA that the women's coats and Edith's makeup were great this week.

Edited October 19, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[photo fox]

Just a reminder to spoiler tag anything that hasn't aired yet (i.e. spoilers and previews). Or better yet, take that discussion to the "speculation with spoilers" topic. Thanks!

[ZoloftBlob]

Is it possible Fellows totally mislead us with Robert's death scare and it will be a completely other death to be mourned in the end?

 

Count me in on this theory. Except where we're totally misled.

[Lived In Inch]

I want to believe that Mary is too obtuse and too self-centered to figure out what's going on with Marigold on her own. Tom and Lord Grantham didn't need much prodding to find out. I despise Mary. I would hate for her and Tom to be endgame.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Lived In Inch

[Cherpumple]

I just remembered another small detail that made me laugh- the reference to poor, long-suffering Evelyn, still pining away for Mary all these years, though not actually making an effort to spend any time with her. *massive eyeroll* At this point I'm convinced that JF had a childhood nemesis named Evelyn, because that character is easily the most milquetoast, pathetic person on the show.

[lorbeer]

The thing is, I personally don't believe Marry deserves Tom, he's far too good for her.

Well, I must agree that he's a better person tha she is. But I'm such hopeless romantic and bit naive so I believe they'd be a lovely couple. :) I think Tom could be for Mary that person who gives her shelter - mentally speaking. Someone she can cry to and give her a hug. ;)

I do agree Tom's destined to do more than running the estate, though.

[NorthstarATL]

Well, THAT dinner party was ruined! Now I think I see what "Pride & Prejudice & Zombies" might be like! I also thought that once Robert uttered the seemingly-final words to Cora that we would not be seeing him any longer. Which would make sense, and so many things that have been set in motion toward the "end game" would have to come to fruition with his loss.

  I have never been a huge Edith fan, but have always held out hope that the magazine would save her character, and she shone this episode! No whining, no competitiveness, just seeing to take charge ad have fun! She was far more attractive, and even the wardrobe reflected it!

   I know Mary didn't see Matthew's crash the way that we did, but I was hoping for some reference from her as to the danger involved in racing that wasn't just a general one. I don't see any chemistry between she and Tom except of a sibling sort. I really liked him this episode, and especially his speech about Sybil.

   Mrs. Hughes-Carson could easily poison Mr. Carson and pin the murder on the Bates.

[foreverevolving]

Well, THAT dinner party was ruined! Now I think I see what "Pride & Prejudice & Zombies" might be like! I also thought that once Robert uttered the seemingly-final words to Cora that we would not be seeing him any longer. Which would make sense, and so many things that have been set in motion toward the "end game" would have to come to fruition with his loss.

  I have never been a huge Edith fan, but have always held out hope that the magazine would save her character, and she shone this episode! No whining, no competitiveness, just seeing to take charge ad have fun! She was far more attractive, and even the wardrobe reflected it!

   I know Mary didn't see Matthew's crash the way that we did, but I was hoping for some reference from her as to the danger involved in racing that wasn't just a general one. I don't see any chemistry between she and Tom except of a sibling sort. I really liked him this episode, and especially his speech about Sybil.

   Mrs. Hughes-Carson could easily poison Mr. Carson and pin the murder on the Bates.

Well it's easy to not feel self-confident when your own family always looks down upon, criticize your every decision and treats you like an afterthought; you know, I don't think Edith has ever had any sense of real purpose until now! Mary always had the house, Sybil found her happiness in her social causes- both of them never seemed to have felt as if they were second best to their other sisters. Edith is looks confident and has no reason to whine because she has a life where her confidence doesn't rely on her family approval. Plus I think being around Rosamund has done her a world of good- I would even go as far as to say that I think Edith has become her favorite niece, I think it helps that the two of them are very much alike, hence why living away from Downton is good for both of them.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Some hilarious moments this week, the first of which was Mary saying, "I don't mean to be snobbish." You know whenever anyone says, "I don't mean to be rude/racist/snobbish," that's EXACTLY what they're about to do!

Also hilarious was Violet blaming Denker's inappropriate comments on reading too many novels and seeing too many moving pictures.

Loved that when they initially found out the health minister was coming for dinner, Robert said that Violet must have blackmailed him and later the health minister revealed that's exactly what happened!

[Avaleigh]

I loved this episode. 

 

The moment with Robert was shocking. It totally reminded me of John Hurt in Alien. Then all of the spatter made me think of the lawnmower incident on Mad Men. 

 

Loved the grandchildren spending time with Granny and Donk. 

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Denker but I laughed out loud at her description of Dr. Clarkson eating porridge in the glen with his mummy. 

 

Mary looked great during the racing scene, wow. I agree with those who think that the fashion in this episode was killer. Edith got a great headpiece to wear. 

 

I'm very happy with Edith's new relationship and look forward to seeing it develop. 

 

I agree that there still seems to be some chance for Tom and Mary. Why indeed is Tom written into Mary's date with Henry? I thought that the conversation about Tom's relationship with Sybil was suspect too. More than anything I see that Tom and Mary each want the other to be happy so that's a good start. Since Tom doesn't seem to have any prospects on the horizon I'm crossing my fingers that it's because it'll end up being Mary. 

[Gladrags]

My big takeaway with this week's episode was: Go, Edith, go! She deserves to have a life of her own, and heaven knows she deserves some happiness. 

 

BTW, is someone else getting worried about Violet? She seems to work herself in a state over the hospital question and there were a few incidents this episode (and the last) where I thought: "Whoa, she's becoming so fragile" and "has she always been so short winded?"

 

I've often thought that Granny Violet's death would occur near the end of the show's run to illustrate the passing of the Abbey to her grandchildren's generation. Coupled with Robert's likely pending retirement, and a preview or two for upcoming shows, now it makes even more sense.

 

I don't see anything but platonic affection between Tom and Mary and I hope it stays that way. I really like that they are just friends. I also love that Tom always tries to include Edith (which I think he does mostly because he's just a nice guy but partly because he sees what a heinous bitch Mary is to her), like when he invited Edith to go see Henry's car.

Agreed; Tom and Mary are not balanced, as Tom says. You might think they would be, based on the mutual respect and friendship that we've seen them build, but Queen Mary eventually would run him over flat if it would suit her. She would remind him that it's her estate, her house, her pigs, etc. Tom doesn't seem like he wants to be a permanent part of the Abbey, either. 

[Hecate7]

I think Edith's storlyline is as clear as the day by now. Marigold will be a minor problem, but in the end she will end up as the Lady of Brancaster of course. Which will be even more interesting if Mary is going to marry down. And I'm sure she will the question is just "how far down".

 

I wonder if Tom's "Real love is giving someone the power to hurt you" is foreshadowing, too? Will Mary be hurt that Tom didn't tell her about Marigold?

 

Why? Was she entitled somehow to be told about Marigold? Was Tom her special confidante at the time? Does she even CARE about knowing about Marigold? Because I kind of think not. It's just some drama of Edith's. It's really nothing to do with Mary.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Mary inevitably asks Tom if he knew about Marigold and why he didn't tell her, I hope he says that it wasn't his secret to tell (pointedly reminding her that she of all people should understand that) and that it was up to Edith to decide if she trusted Mary enough to tell her.

[hafo]

Tom doesn't seem like he wants to be a permanent part of the Abbey, either. 

 

I see the opposite: I see the show setting him up to be the next patriarch of Downton regardless of his relationship status with Mary. In the scene where he saw off Neville Chamberlain, in the final scene between Mary and Tom...Physically he's bulkier, looking older and more and more like the man who runs the house.

He says he wants something useful to do. But he also says he considers Downton his home and the Crawleys his family.