S17.E12: A Misunderstanding

[WendyCR72]

A murky he-said, she-said date rape case ruins the futures of two high school students.

[Spartan Girl]

You know what would be awesome? If someday Buchanan has a heart attack and dies on the courtroom floor just like that blowhard lawyer in Inherit the Wind.

This felt more like an old school episode of SVU. I honestly didn't know who to believe. But I think both sets of parents didn't handle it well. Especially the boy's parents.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Spartan Girl

[Hero]

I laughed at the way they dressed the boy up as clark kent in the courtroom.

Also, what the hell was up with those odd facial expressions he was making throughout the episode?

I would love to have an episode without Olivia. It would be awesome to see Finn in charge.

[Primetimer]

A prep-school's secret deflowerment society claims more than one victim (Sarah D. Bunting's dinner, for one) when the he-said/she-said heads to court.

Read the story

[Mollymae]

Bad casting for the 15yo girl Abby who looked more like a 25yo to me. Her acting wasn't good and didn't match a teen's behavior either.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Good acting from most of the guest stars.
Barba. With lines and stuff too!
The trial scenes. "Are you asking me if your client is a liar?"
The preview for next week looks promising.

The Bad:
Starting off with the martyrdom of St. Olivia and a reminder of last week's crapfest.
The scene with Rollins and her baby. Couldn't we have done this without making Fin and Olivia look oblivious and/or insensitive? (I'm perfectly willing to believe it from Carisi and Dodds.)
Fin was sadly underused, especially since his scene on the football field is a great reminder of how good he is cutting entitled rich pricks down to size.

Overall this was much better than the last couple episodes. It was another visit to we'll trod SVU territory with horrible privileged rich people and a he said, she said date rape case, but at least a well executed one with a decent script. Hopefully we're back on track at least until the next pointless Chicago Crossover or Benson in jeopardy episode.

Edited January 21, 2016 by wknt3

[shapeshifter]

Was this an unchaperoned dance? Not that kids won't slip away unnoticed if they are determined, but I was just wondering where all the parents were?

[biakbiak]

I laughed at the way they dressed the boy up as clark kent in the courtroom.

This was based on a real life case at St. Paul's School in NH. In that case they compared him to Harry Potter because of the glasses he wore in court. Edited January 21, 2016 by biakbiak

[Everleigh]

This was based on a real life case. In that case they compared him to Harry Potter with the glases the he wore in court.

 

Yeah, the St. Paul prep case where the rapist Owen Labrie transformed himself from your typical prep school douchebag to innocent nerdy school boy when it came time to go to trial. 

[Snookums]

Was this an unchaperoned dance? Not that kids won't slip away unnoticed if they are determined, but I was just wondering where all the parents were?

 

 

I kept saying "THAT DOOR SHOULD BE LOCKED", especially since it's apparently a notorious makeout spot. Setting aside the probable civil suit from Abby's parents I can't fathom the school being down with having to clean up the remnants of teen sex encounters or being all okey dokey about tons of expensive equipment just lying around where anybody can grab it.

 

I did like how "murky" the case was--the way a lot of cases are. Two kids whose hormones are racing and social status is uncertain is a recipe for disaster; Chris's face when he first sees Abby at the beginning of the ep indicates that he really likes her and she clearly likes him back, and it's all downhill from there. Both of them are feeling pressure--Chris from his asshole friends who are clearly lying about at least two thirds of their supposed triumphs, Abby from her more "sophisticated" friend and the general air of "you have to make sure he likes you", the lack of which liking is a fate worse than death. 

 

And neither of them even know what they want. How much is sexual attraction and how much is panic? How much wanting him to like you and how much him wanting this to be more than finally getting his name on that wretched wall? How much is reciting of standard agitprop from both sides and how much genuine violation and remorse? How much parental coddling and social media distortion? How much two kids who didn't know what they were doing?

[Bobbin]

Teens will be teens. "Lives ruined" is an adolescent perspective. Real life goes on. "Offsetting penalties, repeat 2nd down. The clock will start on my mark..."

[shapeshifter]

Great post/review of the issues explored (forums.previously.tv/topic/37445-s17e12-a-misunderstanding/#entry1886963), Snookums!

So in the end, after subjecting their kids to the humilatation of trial by their not-peers, Chris got the same deal he was originally offered if they did not go to trial, right?

Did they say that as a registered sex offender, he could not have a cell phone or Internet access?

Edited January 21, 2016 by shapeshifter

[solequeene]

Did they say that as a registered sex offender, he could not have a cell phone or Internet access?

 

They did: "If he goes on the list, he can't have a smartphone. He can't even access the internet".

 

This was a good episode. Well acted, thought provoking, good dose of Order, Barba... all in all all I'm a happy girl.

 

I loved Rita's "oh, a baby" comment - it's nice to see women who are not interested in chldren. I also liked that Olivia's therapist told her that she can, you know, step down. She won't, but still.

 

I don't think Carisi was being a jerk. He always points out facts even if they are not the most tactful ones. A lot of women are gutted by having to go back to work (and others can't wait to get out of the house) and if NYPD offers only 6 weeks of maternity leave, well's that's not his fault. (Btw, isn't that too short?).

 

Barba's cross of Chris was hot. Like, really, really hot. We desperately need a show that is only about Barba scorching through trials.

Edited January 21, 2016 by solequeene

[Princess Lucky]

I was kind of bored. I love Barba, and he was great, but maybe this is why we don't have a lot of courtroom scenes. Like, Liv testifies, and then Carisi (best part of the episode, as always) and then the victim, all talking about the same thing, and I find myself dozing off and wishing for a dumb whodunnit to at least hold my interest.

 

To be fair, I thought the case was approached well. It was ~grey~ and it got just the right amount of resolution, I felt. I just didn't really care. Plus:

 

So in the end, after subjecting their kids to the humilatation of trial by their not-peers, Chris got the same deal he was originally offered if they did not go to trial, right?

 

Yeah. So it was all for nothing. Which is fitting, but not riveting television.

 

I don't think Carisi was being a jerk. He always points out facts even if they are not the most tactful ones. A lot of women are gutted by having to go back to work (and others can't wait to get out of the house) and if NYPD offers only 6 weeks of maternity leave, well's that's not his fault. (Btw, isn't that too short?).

 

Me either. If anything, he was trying to empathize, I think. In his own Carisi way. Like, "I know it won't be easy, I watched my sister going through the same thing." Dodds was the jerk, all "let her take a year off, who gives a shit if she ever comes back". At least Carisi and Fin wanted her there. But I totally agree with the recap, no one chastised Dodds.

 

Seriously, I feel like we need an episode where Carisi gets hurt, or shot, or something, just because I want to see how the others react. Do they even like him? Sometimes I think they do, but then they start shitting on him again. Even though he is clearly the best one out of all of them.

 

Poor Carisi. It's okay. We love him.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Princess Lucky

[gesundheit]

I don't think Carisi was being a jerk. He always points out facts even if they are not the most tactful ones. A lot of women are gutted by having to go back to work (and others can't wait to get out of the house) and if NYPD offers only 6 weeks of maternity leave, well's that's not his fault. (Btw, isn't that too short?).

Agreed, I thought he was trying to be supportive. "I know for a fact that can be so hard," basically. (I'm in NYC, though, and 6 weeks is generally the standard. Most people bank vacation time to take after that, though, plus unpaid time after if they can afford it)

 

Man, if Chris's mother really did hear her teenage daughter plotting with her friends to falsely accuse boys of rape if their feelings weren't reciprocated, Chris's mother needs to be worried that maybe she raised two terrible people with warped values instead of just deciding that all girls are like that. Was she like that? She seems to think it's standard. That's disturbing.

 

Anyway, it was fairly interesting in that a lot of people really are sincerely unclear about what affirmative consent really is and we really do need more explicit laws.

Edited January 21, 2016 by gesundheit

[shapeshifter]

A lot of women are gutted by having to go back to work (and others can't wait to get out of the house) and if NYPD offers only 6 weeks of maternity leave, well's that's not his fault. (Btw, isn't that too short?).

Right now I'm looking at FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) laws for my own serious medical issues. It's a great benefit for those who work where it is offered. It guarantees 12 weeks unpaid leave, so NYPD's 6 weeks paid is "extra" and fairly typical (dol.gov/whd/fmla/employeeguide.pdf). 12 months unpaid leave with the promise of your job waiting for you when you come back is very generous by US standards. Some European countries give over a year maternity leave; I think (not sure) the pay is government subsidized in such countries.

They did: "If he goes on the list, he can't have a smartphone. He can't even access the internet".

How is that enforceable? Even if it was just the policy of Stanford? Edited January 21, 2016 by shapeshifter

[gesundheit]

Right now I'm looking at FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) laws for my own serious medical issues. It's a great benefit for those who work where it is offered. It guarantees 12 weeks unpaid leave, so NYPD's 6 weeks paid is "extra" and fairly typical (dol.gov/whd/fmla/employeeguide.pdf). 12 months unpaid leave with the promise of your job waiting for you when you come back is very generous by US standards. Some European countries give over a year maternity leave; I think (not sure) the pay is government subsidized in such countries.

Yeah, I was pretty impressed that she has a one-year unpaid option. That's crazytown! I've never heard of that. Although our city employees do tend to fare better on protections in general since obviously it's a lot easier for City Hall to make that happen than to legislate it for the private sector.

[ScarletLetter]

I have to say, I got a pretty big belly laugh at the whole "secret society" thing. When that kid showed everyone the names behind the portrait of George Washington, I thought we were going into National Treasure territory where their next target was going to have sex with the Declaration of Independence or something. Bless you SVU, for inserting a wacky touch into an otherwise standard episode.

[Snookums]

I loved Rita's "oh, a baby" comment - it's nice to see women who are not interested in chldren.

 

 

I thought that was hilarious, and the best bit was Rollins did too--especially since it happened one nanosecond after she's all "guys, could we not have a Lifetime Movie about my motherhood options right in front of, y'know, me?" 

 

I did like how Liv was clearly struggling with the idea that maybe Noah, her sweet reason for living, could grow up this way--not a sociopath, not a predator, but just a kid who gets pressured into doing something he can't even grasp was wrong, no matter how many times he's told about "affirmative consent" or "no means no" or respect or any of the other pieces of good, staying-out-of-jail advice you press on your kids and it goes in one ear and out the other because they know, mom, Gawd, they get it, they aren't naive or stupid, they watch TV, they have the internet, okay?

 

And I liked it all the more because she didn't say a word about it; it was all internal, showing on her face occasionally. I wish they'd trust the star of their damn show to actually convey beats without having to write speeches or overwrought therapy scenes. Although I will admit at least the shrink was pointing out what this board has for the past two seasons--Liv's been through so much trauma that nightmares and flashbacks are seeming normal to her and maybe she should think about, you know, not trying to save the whole world for a while?

[Gigi43]

Barba calling Chris' texts "pathetic, not indecent" to Calhoun pre-trial is what sold it to me that Chris was not a predator. An idiot? Yeah, probably. But if that were a crime a lot more HS seniors would be in jail. I wanted to know more about the dance. Was it a senior dance and Abby went or was it for the whole school? Along with consent, it seems like a better job needs to be done in teaching 18yr olds how things change legally even with consent, even though 18 and 15/16 yr olds are interacting at the same dances, school sports etc. Chris' mom saying the daughter had friends who would openly talk about accusing boys of rape was a huge WTF for me, and then the way she went off on Abby about what great liars teenage girls are... damn... what's the daughter like? Also, if both kids are messed up then the parents need to look in the mirror, not at the other kids.

 

Two weeks ago (I think?) Dodd's pointed out Carisi had been apparently spending more time with Barba, yet, yet again there's shock Carisi can know anything or be useful. I'm sick of this. Benson is hailed a hero even when she does something unbelievably stupid like last week, yet Carisi gets crapped on still when he's proved to be competent (and sweet) over and over for no reason. I don't buy it being a new guy thing. Amaro didn't get this, or Lake years ago.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Gigi43

[marceline]

Add me to the list of people getting tired of seeing Carisi treated like he shows up every day with his pants on backwards and sucking on a crack pipe. Do these people not remember the non-stop drama and idiocy of Eliot Stabler?!

 

Liv bores me. So, so much.

[DaynaPhile]

This was a hard episode to watch because I am raising sons and I have to tell them that there are people who will look at them as the automatic predator simply because they a good looking white boy. That if challenges are raised chances are they will be presumed guilty right off the bat. It's breaks my heart that something as stupid as this has ruined that kid for the rest of his life. (Yes I know it's fictional, but it happens in real life) Did something go too far? Yes. Did he rape her? I'm voting no. Do I think it's ridiculous the whole thing actually went to trial? Yes. Does he belong on the registry? Nope.

Who said they'd watch a show full of nothing but Barba getting hot (not like that! But ok) in the courtroom? I'm totally up for that.

Edited January 21, 2016 by DaynaPhile

[mojito]

 

"Offsetting penalties, repeat 2nd down. The clock will start on my mark..."

A part of me feels this way, too. If only the two kids were allowed to sit down and talk with their parents present as observers, things might not have gone to court.

 

That said, I think the boy was clearly forcing himself and was unable to succeed because the girl was struggling with him (and if the struggle is what excited him, maybe the boy has bigger issues than we know). Yet still, considering this particular boy and this particular situation, I have a hard time with his being on a sexual offenders registry.

 

With time and more dating experience, the girl would probably move on from this incident much quicker than the boy. In the end, I think the trial would have been more traumatic than the incident for the girl;  the trial and its aftermath would have haunted the boy for a long time to come.

 

I caught where one of the football players was 18, but was it made clear that this boy was 18 as well (seems as though some posters are claiming this)? I got the impression that he was not. 

[Gigi43]

Add me to the list of people getting tired of seeing Carisi treated like he shows up every day with his pants on backwards and sucking on a crack pipe. Do these people not remember the non-stop drama and idiocy of Eliot Stabler?!

 

Liv bores me. So, so much.

 

Amaro too racked up his fair share of drama, death, and even Munch putting up his own money to bail his ass out of jail. Apparently being personable, happy, and smart are not respectable qualities. So annoying.

[marceline]

This was a hard episode to watch because I am raising sons and I have to tell them that there are people who will look at them as the automatic predator simply because they a good looking white boy. 

 

As a black person, I find that fascinating.

 

 

Amaro too racked up his fair share of drama, death, and even Munch putting up his own money to bail his ass out of jail. Apparently being personable, happy, and smart are not respectable qualities. So annoying.

 

This squad has lived through Stabler and Amaro's rage issues, Rollins and Cragen's addictions and before that Novak's lying and Lake's killing other cops. Not to mention the obnoxious ball busters that were Sonya Paxton and and whoever Sharon Stone played. The shade thrown at Carisi makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. He's been shown to be a good cop who wants to do a good job. He's going to school to improve himself and has really gotten better at dealing with victims since joining the squad yet for some reason he's treated like they're afraid that at any moment he'll start licking the nearest outlet. It was one thing when he was new to SVU but now it makes no sense.

Edited January 22, 2016 by marceline

[Princess Lucky]

Add me to the list of people getting tired of seeing Carisi treated like he shows up every day with his pants on backwards and sucking on a crack pipe. Do these people not remember the non-stop drama and idiocy of Eliot Stabler?!

 

 

Amaro too racked up his fair share of drama, death, and even Munch putting up his own money to bail his ass out of jail. Apparently being personable, happy, and smart are not respectable qualities. So annoying.

 

 

This squad has lived through Stabler and Amaro's rage issues, Rollins and Cragen addictions and before that Novak's lying and Lake's killing other cops. Not to mention the obnoxious ball busters that were Sonya Paxton and and whoever Sharon Stone played. The shade thrown at Carisi makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. He's been shown to be a good cop who wants to do a good job. He's going to school to improve himself and has really gotten better at dealing with victims since joining the squad yet for some reason he's treated like they're afraid that at any moment he'll start licking the nearest outlet. It was one thing when he was new to SVU but now it makes no sense.

 

Right? Amaro actually went to jail, he beat someone up, he stalked his wife, Rollins had actual gambling debt which she attempted to pay off with sexual favors, she has a sister whom she has failed to arrest multiple times, they've both been involved in actual crimes, and yet Carisi is the one everyone shits on? Because he's nice and he goes to law school and he's supportive and sweet and a good detective?

 

It's pretty crazy. This season had been good about that, but here we go again.

 

I can only imagine that since everyone at SVU is a trainwreck, they can't fully embrace someone who doesn't take things personally and who tries to stay objective (gasp!).

 

Like, it's okay though. I'll embrace Carisi. I'll embrace him real good.

[slowpoked]

I liked this episode. When they started talking about the secret society, the Senior Salute issue referenced above immediately came to mind. I think they were able to do old-school SVU and Ripped from the Headlines well in this episode.

 

Lots to like - Barba finally getting something to do, even if he knows the case is murky. Calhoun going over to the dark side, so to speak. What I like most is how confused both teenagers are. And how the son wasn't all that sleazy, unlike some of the boys portrayed in SVU. Yes, there was posturing for friends and he did force her in some point, but he seemed genuinely confused when the cops showed up and he even offered to apologize to the girl and the parents, sincerely, if I may say. Like Carisi said, "privileged, but not arrogant." Some other douchebag boys will think nothing is their fault and the girl was completely asking for it. I like that the girl was confused too, a combination of knowing that something happened that she didn't want to happen, her parents forcing her to go through with it, and knowing she will get the boy in trouble, when he really isn't all that evil. As evidenced by her apologizing to him at the end. So I liked how both vic and perp were written as layered characters, and not just one-note.

 

I also even liked Benson's little PSA at the end there. Yes, maybe there needs to be an re-education of consent, rape, etc., in this changing world. I mean, nowadays cyberbullying causes more harm than physical bullying. Predators are no longer the ones just lurking on dark corners. Teens don't understand that what they put on social media stays forever and can incriminate them, even when they don't mean what they say. When does fooling around cross over to the other side, etc. 

 

 

Man, if Chris's mother really did hear her teenage daughter plotting with her friends to falsely accuse boys of rape if their feelings weren't reciprocated, Chris's mother needs to be worried that maybe she raised two terrible people with warped values instead of just deciding that all girls are like that. Was she like that? She seems to think it's standard. That's disturbing.

Yeah, that irritated me too. I know she's worried sick over her boy, but really, If her own daughter is the one who accused some boy of rape, I'm sure that "oh, it's just a boy who didn't ask her out again...psh!" is NOT the first thing that would come to her mind. 

[Gigi43]

 

I caught where one of the football players was 18, but was it made clear that this boy was 18 as well (seems as though some posters are claiming this)? I got the impression that he was not. 

 

When Barba first brought the original plea deal to Chris' lawyer I think is when they said because of the ages, that means Chris would have to go on the registry what lead me to believe he is in fact 18. He had to have been 17 or 18 because that gross club was only for Seniors, too. 

[itainttippithebird]

 

As a black person, I find that fascinating.

 

Fascinating is all too kind a word for it, I think. Sigh.

 

It's criminal that we don't socialize young people from an early age to know about affirmative consent and to respect the bodily autonomy of others, and yeah, it sucks that some people unknowingly commit sexual assault. But it's still sexual assault, no matter what. This was not an episode where we weren't privy to the exchange between the parties and are left to guess - we clearly saw her push his hand away, say that she didn't want to be touched down there. He responds "sorry", meaning he acknowledged it in the moment and heard her. He then asks if it's ok when he's touching her breasts and again she says "not so hard" and pushes him off her. He continues. That meets the standard of sexual assault, legally and otherwise.

 

I was surprised that the "RUH?" text didn't ever come back up, btw?! Now, I'm an Old, so I have no idea what that actually means, but in the moment I guessed it was something like "R U horny" or the like, and the (TOTAL JERK OF A) friend didn't explain to her what it meant and then seemingly replied on her behalf. I kept assuming the defense was going to bring up that text exchange as evidence of consent, and they never did. Cutting room floor or just weird misdirect? IDK.

[GarnetGirl]

I just want a show with Barba and Calhoun being the awesome lawyers that they are, snarking on each other and everyone in their general vicinity. I'd even include Buchanan, because I hate him, but I LOVE to hate him. They can take Carisi on as a junior partner once he finishes law school.

 

Get on it, Dick Wolf!

 

I did like this episode better than last week's disaster.

[marceline]

Fascinating is all too kind a word for it, I think. Sigh.

 

I'm a Star trek fan and as such I learned from Spock that the word "fascinating" is a damn near perfect adjective for any situation.

 

 

 

I was surprised that the "RUH?" text didn't ever come back up, btw?! Now, I'm an Old, so I have no idea what that actually means, but in the moment I guessed it was something like "R U horny" or the like, and the (TOTAL JERK OF A) friend didn't explain to her what it meant and then seemingly replied on her behalf. I kept assuming the defense was going to bring up that text exchange as evidence of consent, and they never did. Cutting room floor or just weird misdirect? IDK.

 

According to Urban Dictionary you're right about what RUH stands for and according to me you're totally right about the way it was dropped. That was just lousy writing.

[CleoCaesar]

Bah what a clunky, manipulative episode. The instant it was a prep school boy I said "this is Owen Labrie", so it was boring to watch to the end, since the ending matched what happened in real life.

 

I loathe the infantilizing new "affirmative consent" crap these days and watching it play out in a realistic scenario highlighted how unrealistic that standard is. Instead of teaching girls to, you know, be assertive and stand up for themselves by any means necessary, the new dogma is that men are responsible for affirming literally every step of a sexual encounter or else be charged with rape. As a late-20s woman, I think it's bullshit. Men are automatically assumed to be rapists, and that's insane. Whatever happened to "No means no"? Whatever happened to standing up for yourself?

 

The girl had a sexual encounter that went badly and that she regretted. Was it rape? I don't know. Was it worth literally ruining that boy's life over? I don't think so. Now that he's on the Registry, he'll never erase it from his record or the Internet. Goodbye, career. Goodbye, social life. He's done.

I suppose I should say "well done" to the show for raising tricky questions, but man it was frustrating.

[mojito]

I think this is an outstanding episode because it makes people see gray. These days we have politicians who frame everything as black and white to appeal to those among us who don't like to think. This episode forces people to think without leading them to the same conclusion. Bravo, SUV.

 

Just want to add that I like Carisi and the fact that he seems to be misunderstood. He, too, is gray. Good heart, but rough around the edges. I'm okay with his depiction; I think the writers are forcing us to think beyond the reaction of his co-workers and look at him. I think, at least, the officer on pregnancy leave understands him. Isn't that the way things work? I worked at a company where, when I started, one employee (she reported to me) was ranked at the very bottom among maybe 25 others. Two years later, this employee was ranked number 2. Sometimes one or two advocates make all the difference in the world. I hope eventually Carisi shines. But I also hope he learns a little more tact, too. My direct-report toned down on vocalizing her thoughts, but otherwise did the same job,  and became a respected senior staffer.

[CleoCaesar]

I hope eventually Carisi shines. But I also hope he learns a little more tact, too.

 

I also hope that he stops referencing his sister every five minutes. I get that she's apparently his sole reference point for how women behave, but enough, Carisi! It's sweet when siblings are close, but tone it down. There's cute-close and there's Flowers in the Attic-close.

[Snookums]

When Barba first brought the original plea deal to Chris' lawyer I think is when they said because of the ages, that means Chris would have to go on the registry what lead me to believe he is in fact 18. He had to have been 17 or 18 because that gross club was only for Seniors, too.

 

 

Yeah, the kid's lawyer brought up the Romeo and Juliet laws but Barba pointed out that was for when there was a year or less age difference between the teens, or they were both under 18, and it was otherwise consensual (the only law being broken was the age of the participants, that is.)

 

I also hope that he stops referencing his sister every five minutes. I get that she's apparently his sole reference point for how women behave, but enough, Carisi! It's sweet when siblings are close, but tone it down. There's cute-close and there's Flowers in the Attic-close.

 

 

 

LOL, yup. Carisi's such a sweet bumblepuppy that he doesn't come across skeevy at all but after a while you're all "dude, have you EVER dated? Anybody? Why is your sister your only reference point for adult behavior?"

Edited January 22, 2016 by Snookums

[biakbiak]

I didn't think this episode was all that "grey" in terms of who the writers thought was right Team SVU was pro prosecution and they even brought a loathed defense attorney taking the accuser's side "pro bono" despite the fact that her parents were obviously crazy wealthy.

[Princess Lucky]

I didn't think this episode was all that "grey" in terms of who the writers thought was right Team SVU was pro prosecution and they even brought a loathed defense attorney taking the accuser's side "pro bono" despite the fact that her parents were obviously crazy wealthy.

I agree. They may not have placed the blame squarely with the boy, because he lives in a culture with "blurred lines" and perhaps he genuinely didn't realize he had raped the girl, but the act itself, I think it was clear that we were supposed to understand it was rape. And, yeah, the fact Calhoun was all "I'm doing the right thing for once, that's payment enough" was another indication that the girl was right.

 

The "grey" part was only about the boy's intentions or his understanding of what he had done (and maybe about the fact the girl liked him, and she wasn't sure if you can even get raped by a boy you like). The act itself, that was characterized clearly, in my opinion.

[wknt3]

I loved Rita's "oh, a baby" comment - it's nice to see women who are not interested in chldren. I also liked that Olivia's therapist told her that she can, you know, step down. She won't, but still.

 

Agreed on both counts. Of course Mariska's ego won't allow them to really confront her issues but it was nice to see at least a nod to the possibility that she does have free will and choices. I'm a little surprised they would go there since it does point to the elephant in the room of why the NYPD would even consider letting her back to work at this point let alone out in the field, but since we'll never see a real reckoning we have to take what we can get.

 

 

I don't think Carisi was being a jerk. He always points out facts even if they are not the most tactful ones. A lot of women are gutted by having to go back to work (and others can't wait to get out of the house) and if NYPD offers only 6 weeks of maternity leave, well's that's not his fault. (Btw, isn't that too short?).

 

I don't think he was being a jerk either. It was in character for him and he meant well. As I said before it did come off wrong to have Fin and Olivia piling on without trying to change the tone a bit. As far as leave in the SVUverse I don't know how you can complain since you don't even get close to that amount for being held hostage and viciously beaten...

[marceline]

Maybe this was a better episode than I first thought because I've found myself really thinking about it and how it framed the issue of consent. I keep coming back to what it's like to be an inexperienced teenager trying to learn how to be a sexual being and how that can lead to so many mixed signals. It's hard to enforce your boundaries when you haven't even had a chance to figure out where they are and part of that is having bad sexual experiences i.e. he's a lousy kisser or she's trying to figure out what to do with her hands down his pants, that kind of thing. If she were older with a little more experience would she have thought it was rape or just one of those unfortunate episodes where you realize that you aren't compatible with that person? Now as you try to figure all that out suddenly your parents are involved with all their baggage then the police with their procedures and the drama that comes with that. If this were a real situation, I'd wonder how this awful circus would color their sexual interactions in the future.

 

This episode just made me sad for both characters and grateful as hell that my adolescence came before the age of social media. 

[Bananna]

I enjoyed this episode, I liked the greyness of the case and it was generally well done. The reactions to Calhoun changing sides were generally pretty funny, I laughed at her "I don't need to put food on the table" line. It was interesting that the parents seemed to be pushing this more than anything else, wtf was with the boy's mother assuming every single teen girl was a liar? It made me wonder what their daughter was like. I didn't by that the victim was really 15, Charlie Ray just doesn't look it apparently she was the girl from Little Manhattan, she did look familiar. But I was surprised that the case went to court, because it really shouldn't have.

 

Barba, and an actual proper role in the episode even better! The St Olivia round off at the beginning of the episode made me vomit a little inside, because really I can't stand Liv and her constant martyrdom. I do enjoy Elizabeth Marvel and Delaney Williams in their roles, so that was good too.

[WendyCR72]

I realize the topic is dicey as a whole, but let's try to keep this conversation civil, as I know we can, and leave the racial issues to a minimum here as it can only fan flames which makes the forum unpleasant.

 

Any questions, please PM me. Thanks.

[slowpoked]

I didn't think this episode was all that "grey" in terms of who the writers thought was right Team SVU was pro prosecution and they even brought a loathed defense attorney taking the accuser's side "pro bono" despite the fact that her parents were obviously crazy wealthy.

I think Calhoun did the case pro bono was because she was best friends with the girl's mother, so obviously money wasn't a factor here. She was the one who brought the case to SVU, not the other way around. She kept on insisting that as from how she knew the girl, back when she was young and seeing her grow up, she would not lie about the assault, to which Barba (rightfully, if I may add) said that if she was on the other side, she would have ripped the girl to shreds.

[biakbiak]

I think Calhoun did the case pro bono was because she was best friends with the girl's mother, so obviously money wasn't a factor here. She was the one who brought the case to SVU, not the other way around. She kept on insisting that as from how she knew the girl, back when she was young and seeing her grow up, she would not lie about the assault, to which Barba (rightfully, if I may add) said that if she was on the other side, she would have ripped the girl to shreds.

I wasn't suggesting that SVU brought her in, my point was that the writers brought her character in and even went so far as to have her do the case pro bono made it clear where their sympaths lay so I didn't feel that this episode was "grey" like many others did.

[marceline]

I also hope that he stops referencing his sister every five minutes. I get that she's apparently his sole reference point for how women behave, but enough, Carisi! It's sweet when siblings are close, but tone it down. There's cute-close and there's Flowers in the Attic-close.

 

To be fair, I think Carisi has 3 or 4 sisters, right? So it's possible he's talking about a different one every time he mention "my sister." That said, any repeated mention of a squad member's family gives me the shakes because I generally hate when family drama invades SVU. I think the only exception was Fin's ex and all that really insane stuff with her family.

[whatsatool]

Better than last week but hated that the victim was so stupid.

[innocuouspuff]

I do think we were supposed to think a crime happened, but not necessarily have as much burden of guilt on the boy as we do on a society that makes the "misunderstanding" seem 100% unavoidable and oh well. As underscored by all the rape culture shoutouts and the mother yelling about teenage liars.

No one has mentioned my favourite Carisi/Scanavino line reading, him responding to the student saying you can't change your mind in the dark room. "Yes, you can, actually. At any time."

Edited January 22, 2016 by innocuouspuff

[slowpoked]

I wasn't suggesting that SVU brought her in, my point was that the writers brought her character in and even went so far as to have her do the case pro bono made it clear where their sympaths lay so I didn't feel that this episode was "grey" like many others did.

Ah, I get what you're saying. It was a misunderstanding. Heh!

[whatsatool]

I would like to see Fin get his own show

[DaynaPhile]

Apologies, I really didn't mean it in a racial context. My intention was that if you're the guy, it's always your fault. Heaven forbid someone question the girl's story, just in case. Had it happen to the little brother of my college roommate. A girl accused him of something that he didn't do, and his life was nearly ruined. Because she liked him and he didn't like her back. But everyone jumped all over him because the male is always the bad guy. If an accusation is made against a guy, it's really hard for everyone to keep the "innocent until proven guilty" mentality. It turns into "your a rapist, now you have to prove you're not." And their life gets ruined in the meantime.

While I appreciate the fact that a sex offender registry exists, I think it's gets overused and people are on it that don't belong there. It waters down the usefulness for those of us trying to steer clear of the people that really do belong. 18 year old kids having sex with their two days away from legal girlfriend don't belong there.

Also, how can I see previews for the next week? The way I watch episodes it's not available.

Edited January 23, 2016 by DaynaPhile

[Gigi43]

While I appreciate the fact that a sex offender registry exists, I think it's gets overused and people are on it that don't belong there. It waters down the usefulness for those of us trying to steer clear of the people that really do belong. 18 year old kids having sex with their two days away from legal girlfriend don't belong there.

 

 

There are levels to the registry, but once someone hears Sex Offender Registry the level pretty much becomes meaningless because most minds go to rapist/child pornographer. SVU has touched upon it in other episodes that now to curb kids from sexting naked pics, some courts have actually charged teenagers with child porn distribution and I think that's a terrible, terrible, way to attempt to handle that. It's life ruining when they couldn't have imagined that was a possible consequence of their action. In a case like Chris, I don't think I could convict especially knowing the registry would be a part of the sentence because he did not know/understand he was an offender at the time it happened. Being questioned by police and having it all laid out to him was all he needed to make sure he was very, very, sure a girl is consenting in the future.