Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion: How's Your Head?

[vanarnd1]

I am still looking forward to the premiere, but from the spoilers it seems like it will be kind of disjointed, which is not suprising considering the time jump and all of the new characters. I think it will take a few episodes to see how things come fully together.

 

Sleepy Hollow is one of the highest variances show on tv IMO. I could see it being great if they bring back the fun of Season 1 and keep the focus on Ichabbie, I could also see the show falling apart if there is too much drama and they overuse Betsy Ross. I am glad though that either way that soon the show will back on the air and we can judge the finished product for what it is.

[BestestAuntEver]

I'm not an Ichabbie shipper by any stretch of the imagination. However, everything I've read about the NEW Sleepy Hollow tells me it's just another shitty season. Quite honestly it reminds me of just how horribly bad Falling Skies got. Every time a new show runner took over the show lost more and more of what made the first season work.

I think expecting the show to go back to S1 is a mistake. These guys want to tell their own story and be totally different from the show that came before. Retconning is just the first step. Now, some people might really like SH 2.0 but, for me it's obvious that this is not the show is fell in love with and it's NOT worth my time.

I'm afraid this is true. I dropped /all ingredients Skies during the second season because it wasn't the show I signed up for. I did the same thing with the Good Wife. They changed the premise thereby changing the show into something I wouldn't have watched at all.

I'm not big on switch and bait and I feel that's what this season will be full of.

[Free]

Yeah - but I think they aren't trying to get the audience they'd lose with that timeslot. I think they pitted against Scandal on purpose to bleed off the shipper base who want Ichabbie.

 

That's what Blacklist tried to do and instead it bled out its own audience,  Sleepy Hollow was already a struggling show after last season and it would only hurt itself than do any actual damage.

 

It's never a good idea to expect new viewers to suddenly flock to your show, more often than not, you'll just continue to bleed out your show as it happened last season.

 

I think expecting the show to go back to S1 is a mistake. These guys want to tell their own story and be totally different from the show that came before. Retconning is just the first step. Now, some people might really like SH 2.0 but, for me it's obvious that this is not the show is fell in love with and it's NOT worth my time.

 

I think the bigger problem is that it had to reset after the messiness from last season, but in doing so it had to get rid of the Horsemen aspect, the Apocalyspe, several characters, etc. just to do a new story altogether.

[Indi]

I'm not an Ichabbie shipper by any stretch of the imagination. However, everything I've read about the NEW Sleepy Hollow tells me it's just another shitty season. Quite honestly it reminds me of just how horribly bad Falling Skies got. Every time a new show runner took over the show lost more and more of what made the first season work.

I think expecting the show to go back to S1 is a mistake. These guys want to tell their own story and be totally different from the show that came before. Retconning is just the first step. Now, some people might really like SH 2.0 but, for me it's obvious that this is not the show is fell in love with and it's NOT worth my time.

 

You are right on the money. I've reached the conclusion that, what we thought SH was intended to be, meaning the first half of S1, was our mistake. I might have fallen in love with the bait, but I realize this show was never meant to be anything but Crane's adventures and his comical reactions to the modern world. The rest is window dressing. He needs a dependable character, who can react to his weirdness cutely and clean messes. That's Abbie's place. Just like all those hundreds of shows centered around special white men. Sleepy Hollow could have been groundbreaking, but instead it chose to be Ichy's altar long ago.

 

Maybe one day Hollywood will learn that the Abbies of TV are worth being the leads and treated like the main characters, the bait phase they keep promising taken seriously. I can't wait for that show.

 

I'm not big on switch and bait and I feel that's what this season will be full of.

This show has been like this, but it looks like Goffman 2.0 has taken it to the next level.

[HalcyonDays]

This show has been like this, but it looks like Goffman 2.0 has taken it to the next level.

 

Well, you won't know until the actual season airs, will you....

[Miss Dee]

I'm with you. I don't see the point of hand wringing at this juncture, predicting the series is doomed based on one promo and a few negative/mixed reviews (among all the positive ones) and a few tidbits dropped here and there among the spoiler sites who are spinning them for maximum clickbait. The *actual dammed show* is airing less than a week - at that point I'll know if I want to watch episode two, and then episode three, and so on and so forth.

I think it's time for me to revive the positivity thread and hang out there. Exclusively.

[DearEvette]

Yeah - but I think they aren't trying to get the audience they'd lose with that timeslot. I think they pitted against Scandal on purpose to bleed off the shipper base who want Ichabbie.

Stupid, yes, but I think they believe they can't do what they want with the show with us shippers around. *shrugs*

 

I don't think that is necessarily true, though. On the  whole SH and Scandal don't share the same audience.  Scandal is overwhelmingly female skewing.  SH is male skewing.  It feels like more of a counter-programming move than some big conspiracy to quiet shippers.  Although if they were really trying to counter-program it would have made a lot more sense to move Gotham to Thursday because it ended on stronger ratings and there were no 'hero' type shows on Thursdays. 

 

If we are talking a black demographic then Empire v. blackish has shown that tv can support two shows that share a niche audience portion.  Empire is a ratings monster, but blackish still manages to pull in over 2 ratings.

 

If it was just Scandal v. SH then I think SH would be able to hold it's own very nicely.  But I think Heroes Reborn is the bigger threat because SH and HR overlap in audience more than Scandal & SH do.  Also they are both genre shows which also share a significant audience. 

 

It is all academic anyway.. the show hasn't aired.  We don't know how the season will shape up.  And honestly Fox's shows are doing dismally so far.  Minority Report is the lowest rated scripted show to premiere on network last week.  Scream Queens was the second lowest until The Player aired.  And even though Rosewood got decent ratings, the word of mouth on the show is awful. I'd be interested to see how it does next week since ratings tend to dip from premiere episodes and the anticipation for Empire won't be as high.

[phoenics]

Dang I forgot about Heroes Reborn. But I haven't been excited about the promos for that anyway, so...

I'm still pulling for SH.

[catrox14]

 

Well, you won't know until the actual season airs, will you....

 

 

Respectfully, isn't the spoilers discussion thread the place to discuss, debate, worry and speculate about what we think is possible or what is of concern based on the spoilers and promos that are being released?  Have I got that wrong?

Edited September 26, 2015 by catrox14

[catrox14]

Fair enough. I wasn't meaning to offend. I was honestly confused if something had changed.  But I will be sure to check with a mod the next time!

[cynic]

New pic from the season premiere. Our man does look good in orange!

 

http://tvline.com/2015/09/25/sleepy-hollow-ichabod-in-jail-season-3-premiere/

[cynic]

So, spoilertv's review confirms that Crane was referring to Betsy when he said she was his partner.

[Free]

So, spoilertv's review confirms that Crane was referring to Betsy when he said she was his partner.

 

How misleading of the promo.

[phoenics]

How misleading of the promo.

Agreed - I hope they aren't baiting and switching. That would be rude. But the fans (we) are savvy - if that is what is happening, then we would suss that out in a heartbeat.

I guess we really do just have to wait and see.

Thing is - if they like to bait with Ichabbie so much - why not just do it?!?! Would that be too much like right?

Or at least really hint at it - don't make it appear to be that in promos, but ignore it on the show.

Although I do think that the show is actively catering to Ichabbie shippers with either bait or something real - I guess time will tell. SBR and a whole lotta random love interests (immigration lawyer lady, really?) for Ichabod are there so...

[Free]

Thing is - if they like to bait with Ichabbie so much - why not just do it?!?! Would that be too much like right?

 

For some reason, they ran far away from it in S2.

[retrograde]

The showrunners and writers don't create the promos. 

[cynic]

Someone instagrammed a clip of the Crane/Betsy kiss.

 

https://instagram.com/p/8MbBvIKSpd/

[Free]

The showrunners and writers don't create the promos. 

 

Never said they did, just pointing out how misleading it was.

[catrox14]

 

So, spoilertv's review confirms that Crane was referring to Betsy when he said she was his partner.

 

 

Just gonna sit over here feeling sadly smug that I called that :(.

 

 

I don't normally quote myself but

from the media thread.

 

 

 

I didn't think those were Abbie's panties at all. I took it that Abbie and Jenny discover that Betsy is the partner Ichabod was referring to which is why they were sideeying him playfully. But to be fair I watched the promo once so I could be wrong.

Edited September 29, 2015 by catrox14

[phoenics]

According to black honey, the panty scene isn't in this episode, right?

[catrox14]

I have no idea. I didn't read her reviews.

[Blackhoney]

I didn't mention the camisole scene in my review because it wasn't in the episode I watched. I didn't mention much in my review except that I thought the episode was meh and hated that they felt the need to add an Ichabetsy kiss.

 

As for the camisole, I too bet money that it won't belong to Abbie. They made it look like she walked into the room and said "Welcome back Crane," but if you watched the hug, you know those words came from that scene. 

 

The shipper baiting annoys me because no matter how hard they allude to Ichabbie being canon, they never actually make it so. Releasing the hug video on the same day they announced Ichabod's new love interest was just beyond disrespectful. I hear fans lit up their Twitter accounts the other day with complaints.... and rightfully so.

 

They need to stop  promising what they have no plans on delivering.

[Miss Dee]

I can tell you right now that camisole doesn't belong to Abbie. Why in the hell would Ichabod be washing her camisole? That doesn't even make sense. What was shippy to me was the playful, teasing look she had and Ichabod's sheepishness.

Honestly, I'm looking for Ichabbie moments in the subtle ways right now; that usually comes before the more blatant moments. I'm not expecting anything in the way of blatant, obvious shipper moments - that recently tweeted Fox video is far more blatant than anything I had expected right out of the gate. Honest to God, if I'd seen that in real life I'd have tiptoe out assuming I was interrupting a *very* private moment. Hell, I'm still half expecting that to be a dream sequence.

So they can throw every camisole from every woman in Sleepy Hollow at Ichabod and have him swim in them if they want to; doesn't even begin to compare to that video.

[DJG1122]

Why in the hell is Ichabod washing any camisole? Did SexyBetsyRoss say "I'm off to spy. Would you do the laundry Hon?" Are we getting more hen-pecked Ichabod?

[phoenics]

I can tell you right now that camisole doesn't belong to Abbie. Why in the hell would Ichabod be washing her camisole? That doesn't even make sense. What was shippy to me was the playful, teasing look she had and Ichabod's sheepishness.

EXACTLY! This is what I'm thinking as well. At first I did want it to be Abbie's camisole - but it doesn't really matter whose it is - it's Abbie's teasing about it that makes it shippy and awesome.

If this was a scene with Ichabod sniffing some woman's camisole and him looking all dopey about it and it wasn't Abbie's - then I'd cry foul. As it is, it's just a funny scene with some teasing.

Honestly, I'm looking for Ichabbie moments in the subtle ways right now; that usually comes before the more blatant moments. I'm not expecting anything in the way of blatant, obvious shipper moments - that recently tweeted Fox video is far more blatant than anything I had expected right out of the gate. Honest to God, if I'd seen that in real life I'd have tiptoe out assuming I was interrupting a *very* private moment. Hell, I'm still half expecting that to be a dream sequence.

LOL - agree here too. Any heavy-handed Ichabbie right now would just be blatant fan pandering. After Olicity, I don't EVER want to see that kind of pandering again - it ruins shows. IF - and I say IF - they are going to do Ichabbie, they cannot just jump into it immediately - we have to see a buildup.

IF they don't plan on doing Ichabbie ever - then I do hope they stop teasing us with it AND I hope they don't allow either of them to have romantic interests. That's what bothers most fans, I imagine. It's the "We won't with Ichabbie, but we'll give Crane a love interest that sucks the life out of the show, or we'll only show Abbie with another dude, but we won't do Ichabbie".

So they can throw every camisole from every woman in Sleepy Hollow at Ichabod and have him swim in them if they want to; doesn't even begin to compare to that video.

LOL.

Why in the hell is Ichabod washing any camisole? Did SexyBetsyRoss say "I'm off to spy. Would you do the laundry Hon?" Are we getting more hen-pecked Ichabod?

I highly doubt it's SBR's.

[cynic]

I don't actually think he was washing the camisole. He may have just picked it up while searching the laundry room... Though that's weird too.

[catrox14]

I don't see what's weird about him picking up the camisole. Maybe it fell out of the laundry basket onto the floor or something. I think that's a lot less important than the promos are making it out to be. I guess I just learned to not trust a damn thing in promos. I guess I suffer from PTCWPD (post traumatic CW Promo Disorder).

[Miss Dee]

I find promos are incredibly misleading and are usually created to get people talking - which means controversy. Don't believe for one second that any romantic or shippy overtones aren't created deliberately to stir up the fan base. They'd rather have us ticked off and watching than complacent.

(Not ticked off and leaving, though. Whether the show runners have learned anything from last year remains to be seen, but you'd better believe that Fox wouldn't have done that kind of 180 unless they knew there had been a serious effect on ratings.)

[tv echo]

SLEEPY HOLLOW Pandora'x Box (2015) Tom Mison, Nicole Beharie Fox HD
Published on Sep 30, 2015, by TV on CBR

[benteen]

I read we'd get flashbacks to Ichabod's life in England before coming to America.  Any chance we'll get flashbacks to Ichabod's return to Englad?  It seems like such a gigantic missed opportunity not to show Ichabod returning to his homeland after more than two centures.  Not to mention seeing him on a plane.

[Miss Dee]

If I remember the Variety article correctly, they said they might show flashbacks to those missing months for both Abbie and Ichabod.

[Terrafamilia]

The upcoming Sleepy Hollow/Bones crossover fills me with dread. I have a serious antipathy towards these two shows with such fundamentally different outlooks being forced together. They just shouldn't both exist in the same universe. The only crossover which would be acceptable to me is if they had a story where the Sleepy Hollow gang had a mission that took them to the filming of an episode of Bones and then a companion episode of Bones where Booth and the Jeffersonian gang had a case that took them to the filming of Sleepy Hollow.

[rainsmom]

The upcoming Sleepy Hollow/Bones crossover fills me with dread. I have a serious antipathy towards these two shows with such fundamentally different outlooks being forced together. They just shouldn't both exist in the same universe.

I know! It's like Firefly doing a crossover with Little House on the Prairie.

[call me ishmael]

The upcoming Sleepy Hollow/Bones crossover fills me with dread. I have a serious antipathy towards these two shows with such fundamentally different outlooks being forced together. They just shouldn't both exist in the same universe. The only crossover which would be acceptable to me is if they had a story where the Sleepy Hollow gang had a mission that took them to the filming of an episode of Bones and then a companion episode of Bones where Booth and the Jeffersonian gang had a case that took them to the filming of Sleepy Hollow.

Maybe Brennan and Booth will discover the bones of Lucifer....

[Raja]

The upcoming Sleepy Hollow/Bones crossover fills me with dread. I have a serious antipathy towards these two shows with such fundamentally different outlooks being forced together. They just shouldn't both exist in the same universe. The only crossover which would be acceptable to me is if they had a story where the Sleepy Hollow gang had a mission that took them to the filming of an episode of Bones and then a companion episode of Bones where Booth and the Jeffersonian gang had a case that took them to the filming of Sleepy Hollow.

I agree, posting this over at the crossover central thread in Everything Else TV

[tv echo]

I’m dying for a scoop on the Bones and Sleepy Hollow crossover event. –Cordell

In addition to all that we have reported thus far, the official Fox synopsis for the Oct. 29 event says that in the Bones hour, titled “The Resurrection in the Remains,” Brennan, Booth, Abbie and Ichabod must figure out how to work together to discover the identity of a 200-year-old headless corpse and how it is linked to a contemporary murder victim. Then in the Sleepy Hollow half, “Dead Men Tell No Tales,” Pandora unleashes a force to awaken the dangerous Red Coat General Howe, forcing the two teams of crimesolvers to find a way to save the titular town from the British Army of the Undead. “Can the power of Booth and Brennan combined with Abbie and Crane be enough to stop Pandora’s evil forces?” (Who thought they’d ever read such a Fox teaser!)

Matt's Inside Line: Scoop on Arrow, Castle, Quantico, S.H.I.E.L.D., Five-0, Once, Sleepy Bones, Reign and More

By Matt Webb Mitovich / October 5 2015, 10:06 AM PDT

http://tvline.com/2015/10/05/arrow-season-4-spoilers-felicitys-father/

[HalcyonDays]

Here the FOX press release for the Bones/SH crossover show (scroll to bottom). Similar to above. I don't know what to think, since I've never seen Bones but maybe if it's chock full of humour and creepy it'll be good. Either way, I'll watch both, just to see Crane and Abbie on my screen.

[phoenics]

Yeah I'm in for a penny, so I'm in for a pound.

[cynic]

Ugh, I'm not looking forward to that. I can't stand Bones and these shows just clash so much. I like Terrafamilia's idea better.

Ugh, I'm not looking forward to that. I can't stand Bones and these shows just clash so much. I like Terrafamilia's idea better.

[DearEvette]

I am actually looking forward to it.  I know it seems like they don't exist in the same universe, but they do.  Since S1 Abbie was gonna go to Quantico.  Quantico is a real pace that exists both in SH universe and Bones universe.  Abbie & Booth are both in the FBI.

 

Sure SH has fantastical elements, but I think of it just as Abbie & Ichabod working in our world but being aware that the supernatural is really real.  While a lot of people suspect or believe, those two know it for a fact.  But it doesn't remove them from the actual world,  They co-exist.  Kinda like the magical world and the muggle world in Harry Potter.  Some people know and some don't.

 

I think the pairing with Bones is interesting, because Brennan is a forensic anthropologist who is well traveled, knows a lot about different cultures and probably herself is very aware of a lot of the belief systems of many different people.  So the same myth engines that drive all the stuff that Abbie & Ichabod come across, are most likely things Brennan would be aware of historically and anthropologically.  But she is also scientist so she wouldn't necessarily buy into the belief that it is real, only that there may be scientific explanations to some things.  And she is hyper intelligent.  So i think it would be fun to see her interact with Ichabod. They might also clash a bit because they both act like they are the smartest person in the room. What happens when two people who always know they are right disagree or come into conflict?

 

Meanwhile, while those two are potentially clashing/geeking out ,  Booth and Abbie seem like they would get on like a house on fire.  They are both no nonsense shooters. 

 

I haven't watched Bones in years, not since they killed off my poor, sweet Vincent Nigel-Murray.  He was my favorite squintern. But this will get me to tune in again.

[frenchtoast]

Just a quick heads up folks, please read the new announcement in the pinned Notes from the Mods topic. Thanks!

[cynic]

NYCC streams their panels. Raven Metzer teased that one of the SH gang will switch sides this season.

 

SH starts at 6:27:00.

http://www.twitch.tv/nycc/v/20200600

[phoenics]

NYCC streams their panels. Raven Metzer teased that one of the SH gang will switch sides this season.

 

SH starts at 6:27:00.

http://www.twitch.tv/nycc/v/20200600

It CANNOT be Jenny or Corbin - so that leaves Daniel or Betsy Ross. Whoa.

[Free]

It CANNOT be Jenny or Corbin - so that leaves Daniel or Betsy Ross. Whoa.

 

I would want to say Betsy, but that would only further the Katrina comparison.

[Blackhoney]

The turncoat won’t be Abbie or Ichabod. I also don’t think it will be Jenny or Joe. Joe isn’t even fully on the team yet and they’d never write Jenny to turn. It won’t be Daniel, because like Joe, he isn’t a part of the team. He’s actually worse than Joe because he knows nothing and I don’t see them letting him in on the craziness anytime soon. No, it will be Bestsy. What else can they do with her? We know she’s coming into modern times, they’ve gotta find some way to make her matter and this is it. Her always horny routine isn’t going to endear her to fans, so this is the next logical thing to do. Yeah it screams Katrina 2.0, but so did bringing her character in to begin with. Betsy will be the traitor and then I guess we’ll get half a season devoted to Crane trying to redeem and once again find the good in her.

[Ann Mack]

The turncoat won’t be Abbie or Ichabod. I also don’t think it will be Jenny or Joe. Joe isn’t even fully on the team yet and they’d never write Jenny to turn. It won’t be Daniel, because like Joe, he isn’t a part of the team. He’s actually worse than Joe because he knows nothing and I don’t see them letting him in on the craziness anytime soon. No, it will be Bestsy. What else can they do with her? We know she’s coming into modern times, they’ve gotta find some way to make her matter and this is it. Her always horny routine isn’t going to endear her to fans, so this is the next logical thing to do. Yeah it screams Katrina 2.0, but so did bringing her character in to begin with. Betsy will be the traitor and then I guess we’ll get half a season devoted to Crane trying to redeem and once again find the good in her.

Good lord no why are the repeating the same crazy story line again. You think they could REMEMBER how well Katrina worked out and not EVER do that again!

[phoenics]

Uh - no to the "trying to redeem" her crap. Please NO.

[DeLurker]

My memory is horrid, but wasn't that a similar tease when Abbie ended up in purgatory towards the end of season 1 - something about one witness turning on the other?  Excuse me if I am off on time. but they've thoroughly addled my already scrambled brain.

[Yolapukka]

I can't watch the video, it simply won't load no matter what browser I use, so I don't have access to  the actual words used, but what I'm hearing repeated here is pretty ambiguous. Someone on the team switches sides could mean anything, it could mean the effects of an enchantment, it could mean a team member acting as a double agent, it could even mean a surprise return by a past character,  it does not have to mean a key member of the team goes dark side, betrays the mission and we see a redemption arc or even that Betsy is the most logical candidate. We don't know that she's coming into modern times either, maybe she does, but that is based on another vaguely worded tease that could mean anything. Personally, I find that unlikely, especially as a permanent condition, but that's just me.

 

It seems like a fairly convoluted jump to conclude that the show is retelling Katrina's arc with Betsy. The characters are nothing alike, all they have in common is corsets and acting that is offbeat in a bad way. 

[cynic]

The quote was "someone in our extended crew is going to switch sides".

So yeah, it could mean a lot of different things. I suppose it could even mean Pandora turning out to work for good, if we take extended crew to mean extended cast instead of part of the Scooby gang.

Edited October 12, 2015 by cynic