Indi February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 Goffman just can't stop talking about Katrina, can he? He has become a pathetic parody of himself. 1 Link to comment
Yolapukka February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 (edited) Wow, it turns out it's true that Katrina never had any agency. If she appeared evil or shady, it was because she didn't know better about her true nature. I find it mindboggling that they thought a character like that could be compelling in any way and that they had planned to make her the lead character. How utterly clueless, idiotic and repulsive. Given that they're retconning like crazy all over the place to fix what they broke in the first part of the season, I feel fairly confident that this "darker nature" stuff was merely a plot twist plot in yet another attempt to centre the show on Katrina. The story would have been about temptation, not true nature, another peril for her, another opportunity for her remarkable self to prevail and for all to subsequently bow down to her awesomeness. A story all about Katrina in which Katrina defeats Katrina and proves her self as the best Katrina ever as only a powerful witch like Katrina can. Then, she could have gone back to smugging it up, gazing soulfully, widening her eyes in mild reaction to distressful situations and never farting. Now that they've had to recognize that the focus on her boring self has damaged what worked best about the show, they've hopped the fence and are using this to, if not write her off entirely (please!), at least remove her from Team Witness and curtail or cut her ties to them. I for one am happy if this is how they get rid of her, I've been hoping they'd take this route if they didn't have Henry simply drop a house on her. If this had been a starting concept for an entirely different show, I don't think it's a bad idea. I can't say whether I might have been interested in it, but if I had, they would have lost me once I got a snoutful of how phenomenally dull and saccharine both the the writing and performance of Katrina actually are. This show already had a strong working concept, an excellent cast and didn't need to be morphed into something else entirely different, especially at the expense of the characters that had drawn the audience in originally, in favour of a paper doll cut from the cover of a romance novel. Edited February 12, 2015 by yuggapukka 7 Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 Just read that TV Guide article again, that Indi posted. And once again, it's all Katrina, Katrina, Katrina. I really hate Goffman with 1000 suns. Like, I want to gather a copy of every single article and review about Sleepy Hollow, and every forum post there has been about the show, and highlight and underline how many times the phrase "Katrina is boring" and "CFD is boring" and "Katrina kills the show." and "Ichabod and Katrina have no chemistry" and show it to him. And really make him understand it. Then I want to show him everytime the words "Abbie and Ichabod are the heart of the show" and "Abbie and Ichabod have amazing chemistry" and "without them, there would be no show" and force him to repeat this mantra over and over again until he gets it into his thick skull. It's obvious that he has a politicans mindset. Never looking at the greater good or what's the best for the masses. No, instead he only does what solely benefits him and tries to spin a tale to convince the masses his is right. Problem is the masses are much smarter than he arrogantly thinks, and know for a fact how wrong he is. 5 Link to comment
DeLurker February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 (edited) Spoilery article scan about the finale. Wow, it turns out it's true that Katrina never had any agency. If she appeared evil or shady, it was because she didn't know better about her true nature. I find it mindboggling that they thought a character like that could be compelling in any way and that they had planned to make her the lead character. How utterly clueless, idiotic and repulsive. She really should be named Kantrina. Edited February 12, 2015 by DeLurker 3 Link to comment
TwistedandBored February 12, 2015 Share February 12, 2015 I really don't understand why after many rewrites the struggling witch is still being written as a victim. How hard is it to at least make her do something bad and not be someone else's fault? The whole show trying to make Katrina happen reminds of Mean Girl and fetch... 3 Link to comment
DJG1122 February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 He has become a pathetic parody of himself. The more I think about this article, the more puzzled I get. After everything that has gone on with this show, for Goffman to still be focusing on Katrina is downright bizarre. Did he say that so more people WON'T watch the finale because of the emphasis on her? Was he giving the finger to all the SH fans who complained about her? Was he the one who leaked the synopsis? Has he been fired and this is revenge? I'd hate to think that the stress has made him lose his mind but I can't figure out his motivation here. 4 Link to comment
phoenics February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 A story all about Katrina in which Katrina defeats Katrina and proves her self as the best Katrina ever as only a powerful witch like Katrina can. You should get an award for this sentence alone. The more I think about this article, the more puzzled I get. After everything that has gone on with this show, for Goffman to still be focusing on Katrina is downright bizarre. Did he say that so more people WON'T watch the finale because of the emphasis on her? Was he giving the finger to all the SH fans who complained about her? Was he the one who leaked the synopsis? Has he been fired and this is revenge? I'd hate to think that the stress has made him lose his mind but I can't figure out his motivation here. You know - if he has been cut, then these actions could be like someone sabotaging their house after it's been foreclosed on right before being forced out of said house. 3 Link to comment
johntfs February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 (edited) This will be a weird post that could fit into any number of threads, but it does involve spoilers so I'm sticking it here. There will also be spoilers for previous episode of the show, Grimm. If you're planning to catch up on that show in a couple-three months, years, etc., shut your eyes and flee this post immediately. Everyone else, strap in and read on. So, apparently due to a magic twig and her weird son, Katrina will now become an evil, powerful witch who is powerfully evil. Or something. I want to contrast that with something similar that's occurring on Grimm. On the show, Juliette, a fairly normal mortal human, has been turned into a very powerful hexenbiest. So, we have parallels: two women experiencing profound changes in their lives having to do with magical ability. The main difference between them is the time and care that Grimm is putting in to pull this off in a believable, relatively non-stupid way. Juliette got in her situation as an apparent side effect from a magical ritual designed to cure yet another situation which you can find out about by watching Grimm, because this is, ultimately a Sleepy Hollow thread. Juliette suffers headaches and intense abdominal pain before finally turning into the hexenbiest. Events overtake her and she decides to keep her change a secret from most of those around her. Over a few other episodes, she kills a tough monster by exploding its skull. She also causes a car engine to explode. Finally, some mystical test of her abilities results in a mixture contain her blood to dissolve its way through a table, floor and quite possibly all the way to center of the earth. We are then told that Juliette is a really powerful, dangerous hexenbiest which comes after we're shown the previous stuff of her being really powerful and dangerous. This story, in other words, looks like people thought about and planned it before they wrote it and filmed it. The Katrina storyline, meanwhile, seems like people spitballing ideas like "Katrina turns evil." "Katrina turns into a man." "Katrina has to share her body with the ghost of a lusty ex-slave named Rufus." Followed by "Screw it, let's make her evil." Then the episode gets filmed. No real forethought or buildup, just throwing ideas around like they were monkey feces. And now we get to see the result. I look forward to Fridays because I'm eager to see what happens next with Juliette and her biestiness. At this point I'm like "Only two more episodes of SH left and I'm shut of it until next fall. Christ I hope they do better next year." Edited February 13, 2015 by OnceSane added spoiler tags as half the post was potentially spoiling another show 3 Link to comment
phoenics February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 It's interesting that you would parallel Juliette and Katrina - as Juliette is literally the Katrina of Grimm. The actress/character barely made it out of the 2nd season. That being said - the issues with Juliette were not the same as those for Katrina - not even close. And I don't buy that Katrina will only be evil due to the rose - she was practicing dark magic all on her own - who's to say that her own dalliances with it made Henry appear as part of her subconscious? What is happening to Juliette isn't really the same - she still has free will. Katrina appears to be as though she has no choice in the matter - as though she's not in control and I don't buy that for a second. The writers keep screwing things up. My only hope is that at the end of the season, Katrina is gone. Making her evil was literally the LAST chance the writers had and if they go the "it's not her fault" road, that will not wash. I just need Headless back and evil again. Henry hopefully gone to be replaced by a scary demon more powerful than Moloch and Katrina gone. 1 Link to comment
cynic February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 Yeah, the way they've done the "Katrina turns evil" makes it seem really half-assed, which is mind-boggling because they had "Katrina was evil all along" basically set up, though inadvertently. Most of us were already suspicious of her lies and secrets. Katia comes off shady half the time regardless of what's supposed to be going on. They should have just revealed that she put the love whammy on Crane for her own reasons due to him being a witness and she changed his memories of Mary from a lovely woman to the stupid trope we saw in her episode and then confirmed what lots of us were thinking anyway, that she killed her. Not only would have this made tons more sense, been more organic, and made Katrina more interesting, it would have also given her badly needed agency and played to Katia's dubious talents. 6 Link to comment
DeLurker February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 They should have just revealed that she put the love whammy on Crane for her own reasons due to him being a witness They could have her somehow specifically selected Abraham to become Headless. Did they ever explain the headstone that said she was burned at the stake? Or did that just fall into another ploth̶o̶l̶e̶ pit? Those underground tunnels in Sleepy Hollow are getting pretty crowded with forgotten plot points. 1 Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 They should have just revealed that she put the love whammy on Crane for her own reasons due to him being a witness and she changed his memories of Mary from a lovely woman to the stupid trope we saw in her episode and then confirmed what lots of us were thinking anyway, that she killed her. Again, SO MUCH lost opportunity. It literally makes me cry. Again, the basis and little crumbs were already set in season one, so they could have built on it. A love whammy would also nicely explain why Crane lost all brain cells and reason and logic whenever the name Katrina was mentioned, or she physically appeared. And it would make sense too. How could she be sure that Ichabod would fall in love with her? Oh wait, it's because she's selfish and all about Me Me Me...and is Goffman's muse, so of course everyone would fall in love with her...*side eye* You know what's the worst - is people defending Katrina over the whole Mary thing. Katrina actually had to hide Mary's body somewhere. Her parents lost a daughter. Ichabod lost a close childhood friend. Katrina deceived Ichabod with that letter. Do you know how they are defending it? "It's a grey area, because he had to be a Witness." Yeah...uh no. I believe it's called "Involuntary Manslaughter." Hiding the body? Probably "criminal negligence." or "Desecration of a Corpse" or something. People go to jail for these type of things....I dare you to try that in real life, Katrina defenders...I dare you.... 5 Link to comment
spaceghostess February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 (edited) A story all about Katrina in which Katrina defeats Katrina and proves her self as the best Katrina ever as only a powerful witch like Katrina can. You should get an award for this sentence alone. Not possible. Only Katrina gets awards. Edited February 14, 2015 by spaceghostess 3 Link to comment
phoenics February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 LMBO! Touche without the accent mark. 1 Link to comment
spaceghostess February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 LMBO! Touche without the accent mark Not to worry; I read it as Toosh-ay! 1 Link to comment
chrisvee February 16, 2015 Share February 16, 2015 Hm about that major death. Well hopefully the promo monkeys are trying to deceive us into thinking either Jenny kills Frank or Frank kills Jenny but in reality Henry is killed during the fallout from the failure of the Liberty Bell takeover plot. Then Frank or Jenny or both end up frozen by the gorgon head. Maybe then Katrina flips out over the death of Henry and comes up with the 'go back in time and don't save Ichabod so that I can raise Henry' idea. But I have no idea why she would bring Abbie back with her unless she wants Abbie to kill Headless instead of Ichabod?? So confused but anything that ends the season with Henry dead and Katrina only in the past gets high marks from me. Totally agree with the sentiment above that Katrina is defenseless in the matter of Mary. Covering up her death was horrific. Link to comment
Yolapukka February 16, 2015 Share February 16, 2015 Maybe then Katrina flips out over the death of Henry and comes up with the 'go back in time and don't save Ichabod so that I can raise Henry' idea. But I have no idea why she would bring Abbie back with her unless she wants Abbie to kill Headless instead of Ichabod?? So confused but anything that ends the season with Henry dead and Katrina only in the past gets high marks from me. My guess, Henry winds up dead in the present day, Katrina makes a choice between him and Ichabod then travels to the past using the spell Solomon Kent sought in order to change the past and change his fate. In essence, her basic motive is to not outlive her son and possibly raise him. I think her actions will grant her wish by either leading to her death or trapping her in the past. Henry may survive to bedevil the witnesses as a result but I can live with that if the show makes more judicious use of the character. Even more so than that, if they keep him on, I need his blood ties to Ichabod cut. Give us a reveal that he is Abraham's offspring if he must linger. He's the enemy and making him Ichabod's son in order to prevent Ichabod from taking him out was lazy writing, pure and simple. It wasn't a dramatically rich relationship, it just gave the writers a crutch in order to draw out his machinations without writing to how the witnesses would logically deal with his persistent evil. Link to comment
DeLurker February 16, 2015 Share February 16, 2015 I think her actions will grant her wish by either leading to her death or trapping her in the past. Henry may survive to bedevil the witnesses as a result but I can live with that if the show makes more judicious use of the character. Then she can die by burned for witchcraft just like her tombstone said. 2 Link to comment
Enero February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 So now that we've gotten through 1x17 and know why Katrina went nuts and goes back in time, any thoughts on what would change if Abbie does stop Katrina from allowing Ichabod to die at the hands of the Horseman of Death? Wouldn't he eventually die in the 18th century and never make it to 21st century Sleepy Hollow? The same would also happen if Katrina succeeded in making sure he dies at the hands of the Horseman and is not resurrected. From the previews, it looks like Katrina goes to the hospital to see an injured Ichabod, but unlike the previous timeline, he's not there. If Ichabod still manages to get mortally wounded by the Horseman, someone would still have to perform the spell for him to be put into the death like sleep that allows him to awaken in the 21st century. If Katrina won't do the spell, who could Abbie get to do it? One of her ancestors perhaps? Wasn't it implied that Grace Dixon might be a witch? Or maybe she could get the priest from 1x1 to perform the ritual? He was apart of Katrina's coven and was around in 1776. Also, once all is said and done, somehow Abbie will have to travel back to 2014. Someone will have to perform a powerful spell to get her there, and once she returns will it be 2014? Or will it be the start of the timeline - basically when Ichabod first showed up in 21st century Sleepy Hollow. Link to comment
tv echo February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Sleepy Hollow - Episode 2.18 - Tempus Fugit (Season Finale) - PromoPosted by Nirat Anop at Tuesday, February 17, 2015http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/02/sleepy-hollow-episode-218-tempus-fugit_17.html Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Well, we know that here are two major deaths this season. Henry was one. Now who is the other major death. I know we all want Katrina, but I think there is only one or two ways the season can end. There are two Ichabod's now. In 2015 and in the past. Only one Abbie and I guess only one Katrina. Also, if you remember, Katrina touched her belly, indicating at that time, she was pregnant with Jeremy. The show will not kill off someone pregnant. Katrina's story will simply be this. She will stay in that timeline and raise Jeremy. She lives a regular life, dies a normal death, as does Henry. Mention of them can be found in the history books, they both have grave stone. That's it. She's off the show, but not violently killed off. I say this solely because of her being pregnant. The second major death will not be Frank or Jenny. Frank is recovered, his storyline wrapped up and is no longer in danger. Same with Jenny. The risk to Jenny was Frank gunning for her. So she's fine. Headless is not a major character and you can't get rid of the Horseman, so he's fine. That leaves Abbie or Ichabod. One will have to "die" but are not really dead. There are only two ways Abbie can get back to 2015. Either Katrina casts the time travel spell from the Grande Grimoire or another Witch does it. But apparently Ben Franklin may help Abbie return. If the major character who dies is Abbie, she will be put into a "suspension" spell like Ichabod was, and awaken in 2015, just like he did. This would have to occur if no spell is cast to send her back. If the major character who "dies" is Ichabod, then he has to die in order to be buried for 250+ years in order to wake up in present day and join Abbie. If he doesn't the future Ichabod will not exist. Remember Abbie mentioned Back to the Future. Just like Marty McFly, the events of the past change the future to the point of erasing your existance. If the show will be renewed, then Ichabod has to pop up in 2015. If the show is not renewed, he will somehow actually DIE in the 1780s, and that's it. The Witnesses are no longer needed together and the show is done. Like I said, Abbie goes to Quantico and resumes a normal life. 1 Link to comment
blixie February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 If Katrina won't do the spell, who could Abbie get to do it? One of her ancestors perhaps? Yeah I think they brought up the Gorgon head and reanimation of ancestor in stone for "reasons" and I sincerely hope this is it,I assume they'll end up at that coven property where all the free black people were working and Ichabbie will have to convince them that Katrina has "turned", and then they'll be like turned? Bitch has always been evil! Hehe, if only. 1 Link to comment
DJG1122 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Yeah I think they brought up the Gorgon head and reanimation of ancestor in stone for "reasons" Is that statue of Grace Dixon really Grace or is it Abbie? 12 Link to comment
FierceAfroChick February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Is that statue of Grace Dixon really Grace or is it Abbie? Ooohhh...that would be genius! Link to comment
phoenics February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Is that statue of Grace Dixon really Grace or is it Abbie? Mind. blown. Link to comment
Indi February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Is that statue of Grace Dixon really Grace or is it Abbie? Good thinking! Link to comment
pcta February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Is that statue of Grace Dixon really Grace or is it Abbie? Brilliant! 1 Link to comment
Miss Dee February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Hats off to you, DJ. I think you discovered the purpose of Checkov's Gorgon Head. 3 Link to comment
blixie February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 You guys, I didn't even watch the episode with the Gorgon head stone ancestor so thanks for doing that good work! If it's Abbie that would be great but then will there be TWO Abbies?! Because honestly that works for me, as long as the one isn't stranded in the timeline that doesn't even think she's, y'know, a human being. UGH yeah I'm still not comfortable with any of....THAT. I mean I did love the symmetry of that scene on the road and the great string version of Sympathy for the Devil, but OY. These scenes of her in the past actually reminded me of Belle, and I'm not sure why, though now I want to think of Ichabod as her John Davinier. Sigh I loved that movie so much. 1 Link to comment
chrisvee February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Were there any spoilers about Grace Dixon being in the finale because I could see her putting Abbie into some sort of stasis where Ichabod then has to wake her up in the future. As long as Past!Ichabod knows where they put Abbie, Present!Ichabod will be able to find her since they are the same person. Link to comment
phoenics February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) You guys, I didn't even watch the episode with the Gorgon head stone ancestor so thanks for doing that good work! If it's Abbie that would be great but then will there be TWO Abbies?! Because honestly that works for me, as long as the one isn't stranded in the timeline that doesn't even think she's, y'know, a human being. UGH yeah I'm still not comfortable with any of....THAT. I mean I did love the symmetry of that scene on the road and the great string version of Sympathy for the Devil, but OY. These scenes of her in the past actually reminded me of Belle, and I'm not sure why, though now I want to think of Ichabod as her John Davinier. Sigh I loved that movie so much. OMG - I loved Belle too! I kinda think this is gonna be a time loop kind of situation - where Abbie is frozen in time (turned to stone) however many years ago - and Ichabod is still put to sleep by Rev Knapp and somehow they get a message to Ichabod in the future to revive Abbie... Then we get the Ichabbie hug! Time travel never makes sense, lol. Edited February 17, 2015 by phoenics 2 Link to comment
blixie February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Time travel never makes sense, lol. Heh, that is why I loved Looper from few years ago, Bruce Willis was all,"I'm not gonna sit here and explain time travel shit to you.." Hee, I appreciated the meta acknowledgement that since time travel does not actually exist there can't be a firm logic to it. But as time travel logic goes I do like the closed loops, so past Ichabod meeting Abbie, kind of makes future Ichabbie even better for me, because yeah that means "he went through time" for HER, for Abbie! Hopefully he dumps wigstand on the spot. 1 Link to comment
DeLurker February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 OMG - I loved Belle too! I kinda think this is gonna be a time loop kind of situation - where Abbie is frozen in time (turned to stone) however many years ago - and Ichabod is still put to sleep by Rev Knapp and somehow they get a message to Ichabod in the future to revive Abbie... Then we get the Ichabbie hug! Time travel never makes sense, lol. And just to make the residual Ichtrina Fans head explode, she could be awaken with true love's kiss! I don't ship them, but I would enjoy the resulting fanplosion. 5 Link to comment
phoenics February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 And just to make the residual Ichtrina Fans head explode, she could be awaken with true love's kiss! I don't ship them, but I would enjoy the resulting fanplosion. Darn this cough - my laughing out loud turned into a massive coughing and wheezing fit. 1 Link to comment
cynic February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 You guys, I didn't even watch the episode with the Gorgon head stone ancestor so thanks for doing that good work! If it's Abbie that would be great but then will there be TWO Abbies?! Because honestly that works for me, as long as the one isn't stranded in the timeline that doesn't even think she's, y'know, a human being. UGH yeah I'm still not comfortable with any of....THAT. I mean I did love the symmetry of that scene on the road and the great string version of Sympathy for the Devil, but OY. These scenes of her in the past actually reminded me of Belle, and I'm not sure why, though now I want to think of Ichabod as her John Davinier. Sigh I loved that movie so much. I'm assuming that the Abbie statue will be awoken in our time past the point of her and Katrina disappearing into the....uh and now I'm thinking of time travel and closed loops and the grandfather paradox and my head hurts. Nevermind. I loved Belle too! Link to comment
blixie February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Yeah I'm just not sure how Abbie can be the statue unless there were at some point TWO Abbie's unless it's Grace in the original episode and only in the divergent timeline does it *become* present day Abbie? IDK...I got nothin'. Link to comment
pcta February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Yeah I'm just not sure how Abbie can be the statue unless there were at some point TWO Abbie's unless it's Grace in the original episode and only in the divergent timeline does it *become* present day Abbie? IDK...I got nothin'. Problem with time travel. During Abbie's stay in the past, are there two Abbies - the one in the future up until she jumped and the one in the past? Or are these parallel timelines? Or . . . Link to comment
phoenics February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Problem with time travel. During Abbie's stay in the past, are there two Abbies - the one in the future up until she jumped and the one in the past? Or are these parallel timelines? Or . . . This is why time traveling stories are so hard. Sometimes they have the timelines overlap... meaning that Abbie could still exist up until the point that she jumped back - AND - her jumping back has already altered the present day. Meaning - Abbie already jumped back. So when they saw the statue of their ancestor, that was already Abbie because she'd already jumped back. Kinda like that movie The Lakehouse. 2 Link to comment
DearEvette February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 "Time travel stuff gives me the ouchies" - She said in a Ralph Wiggum voice. I like one of the theories I read/saw -- I want to say on Star Trek -- where there are infinite timelines and when you time travel you create a new one that splinters from the point you enter the timeline away from the original reality. So you are still YOU but you have now created a completely alternate timeline that doesn't affect the future YOU because you don't exist in the future because that timeline exists somewhere else. And if I go , say, 10 years ago. The 10 years ago ME doesn't exist because from the point in time to which I have travelled, I have created a new reality. See. Ouchies. Link to comment
roseslg February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) Let's not go to the Lakehouse... that movie made absolutely no sense. I watch it whenever it's on because for some odd reason I like most things Keanu, but that was more of a magic mailbox story :). My head hurts just thinking about it. I think that there is only one Abbie. Present day Abbie is gone. She is now Colonial era Abbie. If she dies in colonial times, that's the end of her. If she is frozen and then unfrozen, it's still the same Abbie. I see it more like Quantam Leap and Scott Bakula going back and forth through time. Also, as witches are long-lived, wouldn't Katrina live until 2015 anyway? Rev Knapp did. I don't know if Jenry would since he's only half warlock. So many questions! Edited February 17, 2015 by roseslg Link to comment
phoenics February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Let's not go to the Lakehouse... that movie made absolutely no sense. I watch it whenever it's on because for some odd reason I like most things Keanu, but that was more of a magic mailbox story :). My head hurts just thinking about it. I think that there is only one Abbie. Present day Abbie is gone. She is now Colonial era Abbie. If she dies in colonial times, that's the end of her. If she is frozen and then unfrozen, it's still the same Abbie. I see it more like Quantam Leap and Scott Bakula going back and forth through time. Also, as witches are long-lived, wouldn't Katrina live until 2015 anyway? Rev Knapp did. I don't know if Jenry would since he's only half warlock. So many questions! No - I agree with that - I'm trying to explain how Ichabod can still be her Ichabod when she gets back. In the Lakehouse - the Sandra Bullock character was only ONE character... but Keanu's had two versions... So there could be frozen Abbie already because this has already happened. Abbie going back to the past, I mean. Nevermind. I have a headache. Link to comment
roseslg February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 (edited) I see, I am thinking or at least hoping that present day Ichabod would now have memories of interacting with Abbie back in the day if they manage to keep him in stasis and Abbie goes back to the future. If not, I guess there may be some kind of mind-wiping spell. I am not sure the writer's are giving it that much thought. Re: The lakehouse? There were two Keanus? Woah, mind blown. I always thought it was just one Keanu and that through some unexplained vortex they were able to meet in person. Edited February 17, 2015 by roseslg Link to comment
pcta February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I see, I am thinking or at least hoping that present day Ichabod would now have memories of interacting with Abbie back in the day if they manage to keep him in stasis and Abbie goes back to the future. If not, I guess there may be some kind of mind-wiping spell. I am not sure the writer's are giving it that much thought. I'm pretty sure we are putting more thought into the conundrum than the writers are 3 Link to comment
BrokenRemote February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 I can fanwank that Ichabod as a prideful man gets irritated when Abbie calls him on his shit. But saying there are things they dislike about each other doesn't negate that they have many things that like about each other and that they still have a bond and a mission. Plus you don't always like everything about the ones you love :). That's my story and I'm sticking to it. That's how I took it, too. It's a far cry from them not liking each other. I can be madly in love with someone and still have things I really don't like about them. Often those are the strongest attractions. My first thought was Abbie must be annoyed that Crane's a know-it-all. I can see him trying to be gracious and saying that when it's more lopsided, in that there are a lot more things Abbie doesn't like about Crane ( keeping in mind this could be little things like how he won't wear skinny jeans). Of course, given how things were on screen at the time I can see how it seemed bad. Link to comment
catrox14 February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 Darn this cough - my laughing out loud turned into a massive coughing and wheezing fit. We must have the same bug. Ugh...hope you feel better! 1 Link to comment
phoenics February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 We must have the same bug. Ugh...hope you feel better! You too! It sucks being sick! But at least I had last night's episode... that helped. Link to comment
CocoaGoddess February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Is that statue of Grace Dixon really Grace or is it Abbie? I just gasped. 1 Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Is that statue of Grace Dixon really Grace or is it Abbie? Someone on another board said that Ichabod referenced the statue Galatea this episode, which they said "was an ivory status that came to life due to true love." I the thought of your brilliant idea DJG1122. Katrina sure as heck won't be helping Abbie get back. Ichabod also commented that the statue of Abbie's ancestor resembled her a lot in the previous episode with the Gorgon. This could be it!! 1 Link to comment
Leia1979 February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) This is why time traveling stories are so hard. Sometimes they have the timelines overlap... meaning that Abbie could still exist up until the point that she jumped back - AND - her jumping back has already altered the present day. Meaning - Abbie already jumped back. So when they saw the statue of their ancestor, that was already Abbie because she'd already jumped back. Kinda like that movie The Lakehouse. I haven't seen The Lakehouse, but this is how I would make that theory work. There's a Doctor Who novel called "The Stone Rose" with the same sort of premise (hey, Abbie mentioned the Doctor this episode--it's relevant). Basically Abbie goes back in time and does stuff we'll find out about next week (like making sure Katrina doesn't permanently kill Ichabod). Abbie gets turned to stone and is preserved until 2015 when Ichabod or Jenny or someone turns her back. Either Ichabod knows it's Abbie and can't say anything until after she travels back (because you can't have two Abbies) or it doesn't happen until after Ichabod "dies" and they figure out the statue is Abbie some other way. I think the latter scenario makes more sense for Ichabod's character. It works in a similar manner to Back to the Future or last season's finale of Once Upon a Time. When it comes to time travel, time isn't linear, it's wibbly-wobbly. The bigger question is how will the S3 (assuming there is one) timeline differ? It's kind of a brilliant way to undo part of season 2 without saying "it was all a dream." Edited February 18, 2015 by Leia1979 2 Link to comment
pcta February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Oh, Stone Rose - need to listen to the audiobook again. Good thought. It does seem a good parallel Link to comment
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