All Episodes Talk: Walk With Me

[TV Diva Queen]

44 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Richard Schiff was just livid about what they did to his character in the final season and wasn't shy about saying it. I have to agree with him, it was just awful.

I don't remember reading any of that - I seem to think I may have checked out of the series when Sorkin did.  I feel that he was covering for CJ and I too hate what they did with him.

[Kohola3]

19 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I don't remember reading any of that - I seem to think I may have checked out of the series when Sorkin did.  I feel that he was covering for CJ and I too hate what they did with him.

There are several articles and interviews about it but here is one.  

I'm with you, I own through season 5 on DVD and can probably recite the dialog.  But they lost me in season 6 and don't think I have ever seen the full remainder of the series.

[TV Diva Queen]

5 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

There are several articles and interviews about it but here is one.  

I'm with you, I own through season 5 on DVD and can probably recite the dialog.  But they lost me in season 6 and don't think I have ever seen the full remainder of the series.

season 7 wasn't horrible - its sad that many of the topics of their week - are still relevant now.  I recommend watching at least the last episode, the peaceful transition of power is amazing.  

[BlackberryJam]

I actually thought there was definite build up to the Toby situation. He wasn't the "wise counselor." Toby was always aligning himself up as morally superior to the President. Although I thought the entire shuttle storyline was dumb, I thought it was on point that Toby would betray Bartlett. 

[Kohola3]

17 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Although I thought the entire shuttle storyline was dumb, I thought it was on point that Toby would betray Bartlett. 

And I felt the opposite, I never believed that he would do that. To this day I think he was covering for his ex-wife.

[PeterPirate]

I enjoyed all seven seasons to some extent.  I think the last half of season 2 is the pinnacle of the series.  (Right up to the "hands in pockets" thing.)

I love the last three episodes of season 7.  That's one of the few discs I can pop in without having to think about which episode to skip.

On the flip side, The Debate is the only episode that I've never watched again. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by PeterPirate

[BlackberryJam]

15 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

And I felt the opposite, I never believed that he would do that. To this day I think he was covering for his ex-wife.

Really? Andy, the ex-wife, didn't seem to have any guilt in her interactions with Toby post leak reveal. Also, she was often looking for a fight. I think if it had been her, she would have owned it..but then again, babies. It had been my impression that they had originally lined up CJ to be the leaker, then realized that it was much more in character for Toby and switched mid-stream.

14 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

I enjoyed all seven seasons to some extent.  I think the last half of season 2 is the pinnacle of the series.  (Right up to the "hands in pockets" thing.)

I love the last three episodes of season 7.  That's one of the few discs I can pop in without having to think about which episode to skip.

On the flip side, The Debate is the only episode that I've never watched again. 

In S2/S3, I had some hope they would go somewhere with CJ/Oliver Babish. I generally didn't 'ship' anyone on the show, but I thought those two had a lot of chemistry and wish it would have gone somewhere.

I loved the last three episodes of S7 as well! I often found myself annoyed with the inconsistent characterization of Helen Santos, but I think she evens out in those episodes. I've always been a Jimmy Smits fan. Stockard Channing was always fantastic and she is there giving Bartlett her support. Just nice episodes. 

No rewatch on the Debate for me or the episodes that are mostly interviews with real WH staffers.   

[Guest]

3 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

No rewatch on the Debate for me or the episodes that are mostly interviews with real WH staffers.   

I rewatched Debate Monday night, but I haven't even watched the documentaries with real people even once.  

I prefer staying in my TWW bubble.  I also don't like the fake documentary that they pretended aired after the administration. That's a bad episode.  (I can't think if it is season 5 or 6.)

[blondiec0332]

19 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I actually thought there was definite build up to the Toby situation. He wasn't the "wise counselor." Toby was always aligning himself up as morally superior to the President. Although I thought the entire shuttle storyline was dumb, I thought it was on point that Toby would betray Bartlett. 

I wasn't a Toby fan.  The only episodes I found him tolerable in was S2's In the Shadow of Two Gunmen.  I liked him in the flashbacks of how he came to work for Bartlett.

4 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

In S2/S3, I had some hope they would go somewhere with CJ/Oliver Babish. I generally didn't 'ship' anyone on the show, but I thought those two had a lot of chemistry and wish it would have gone somewhere.

I agree she had more chemistry with him than Simon Donovan her Secret Service bodyguard.  Although I did find it sad what happened to Simon.  I didn't think she had chemistry with Danny either but I didn't mind her ending up with him.

4 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I loved the last three episodes of S7 as well! I often found myself annoyed with the inconsistent characterization of Helen Santos, but I think she evens out in those episodes. I've always been a Jimmy Smits fan. Stockard Channing was always fantastic and she is there giving Bartlett her support. Just nice episodes. 

I would have totally watched an eighth season that was about a Santos presidency.

 

[TV Diva Queen]

On 9/29/2020 at 6:53 PM, PeterPirate said:

I enjoyed all seven seasons to some extent.  I think the last half of season 2 is the pinnacle of the series.  (Right up to the "hands in pockets" thing.)

I love the last three episodes of season 7.  That's one of the few discs I can pop in without having to think about which episode to skip.

On the flip side, The Debate is the only episode that I've never watched again. 

I read this yesterday and I read it quickly.  I got so mad, I was thinking about it alot - like "why on god's green earth would people voluntarily watch that episode again?" and then I just read it now....Sorry for being mad at you  🙂

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, TV Diva Queen said:

"why on god's green earth would people voluntarily watch that episode again?

If I do a full-series re-watch, I'll watch them all. Usually though, I'll just watch one season all the way through. Right now, we're in the middle of a full series watch - GF never saw it, so I've been taking her through it. We're a little past half way through S4 at this point, and she really likes it.

[Bastet]

I only have seasons one through four on DVD, so those are the only seasons I re-watch (I'm not sure when I quit watching originally; I think my viewing became sporadic somewhere in season five and I quit entirely somewhere in season six), and for the sake of my blood pressure I make sure to never, ever subject myself again to the offensive piece of crap that is "Isaac and Ishmael".

(Although, that episode is how I found TWoP; co-workers and I were still complaining about the episode days later, and someone said there was a great article on some website that accurately skewered the whole thing, and that turned out to be the TWoP recap.)

[SoMuchTV]

First time watcher, working my way through. I have to say in October 2020, it’s both reassuring and infuriating. 

[ProudMary]

A $25 donation gets you in the room.

Virtual Trivia Night with The Cast of the West Wing

[Anela]

I first watched it starting January 2017, and I'm tempted to do another binge. I should have done that this Summer. I can't believe it's been almost four years since I did that. 

[PeterPirate]

From The Dogs Of War:

CJ - Excuse me, sir. Will the First Lady be joining you?

Bartlet - No. She's at Walter Reed.  

[sinkwriter]

I never saw Toby as a "wise counselor." (Though I do think he had his moments of wisdom.) Instead, I saw him as a smart, conflicted man with great integrity, even to his own inner detriment. Which sounds like I think he did it, but no. To me it's because of that integrity that I think he didn't do it. For me, there was NO way he would have betrayed the President re: the shuttle. Instead, I think he would have stayed quiet, suffering in silence, and probably spent a lot of time drinking heavily and feeling like shit for not saying anything.

We see it so many times. Even when he's furious with Bartlet, he's the one who was there for everyone else when they were angry with him about the MS reveal, for example gently but pointedly reminding Sam that he's still "President Bartlet," not just "Bartlet," even though he understands how betrayed they feel. And when he felt the White House had been betrayed by someone who leaked information, he was furious and wanted to interview everyone and find out who would do such a thing. (And in the end pulled back and instead reminded everyone that he understands how good it feels to be "in the know" but you just can't give up resources, not without hurting everyone you work for and with and not without possibly wrecking everything you've worked toward.)

And there were so many times when Toby would hold things in and suffer in silence. You can see how embarrassed and horrified he felt when he was taken to task for his arrogance in writing a speech for Bartlet that condemned the very leader who was visiting (State Dinner) and led to his French protestor friend not being released. He felt like shit when he found out the President didn't choose him for his job, but he wouldn't confront the President about it. Bartlet had to hear from CJ (most likely) about how Toby felt, and he's the one who brought it up to Toby instead. Toby holds it all in.

And he was angry when Leo suggested Toby was looking for a life boat out of the West Wing, because Toby has been there since the very beginning and wasn't planning to go anywhere so he felt like how could Leo think that about him? He may get frustrated and angry with Bartlet, and challenge him to be the man he knows Bartlet is and can be, but he's still fiercely, quietly loyal.

So to me, there's just no way Toby would have betrayed the White House. He would have wanted to but ultimately he has integrity, even when he hates himself for it. I truly believe he would have kept quiet, blamed himself, and as he once said, he'd want to spend some time "in a dark room alone" -- spent doing a lot of drinking and contemplating quitting everything. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by sinkwriter

[txhorns79]

On 9/30/2020 at 9:59 AM, BlackberryJam said:

It had been my impression that they had originally lined up CJ to be the leaker, then realized that it was much more in character for Toby and switched mid-stream.

I had the same impression that CJ was the one being set up to be the leaker.  There was an ending scene for one of the episodes in the sixth season where they are discussing it and the shot holds on CJ as they fade to black.  Perhaps they realized that sidelining the character wouldn't work, or between the seasons, it was decided that they could more easily write out Richard Schiff to save money. 

[Guest]

Whether or not it was in character for Toby to leak, it was worth it for this exchange:

Josh: "Hey, can felons vote in DC?..... Too soon?"

Toby: "Little bit."

[BlackberryJam]

@sinkwriter those are all great arguments for Toby not doing it. I’ve struggled with, “If not Toby, who?” I felt like they were setting CJ up, but I didn’t feel like it was in character for her. If she’d leaked state secrets to help an abused woman, or helped Han or some Saudi teen girl escape, that would be believable, but some dudes in the space shuttle? Nah.

I also thought it was weird that Josh was calling Toby. I mean, the guy was toxic, right? So in the middle of a campaign, it didn’t make sense. 

Interesting other potential leakers:

Bingo Bob leaking inadvertently or as a FUCK YOU to Bartlett for backing Santos.

Kate Harper because UGH Kate Harper. I can’t even imagine a reason why she would do it, but would have been glad if she’d been shuffled off.

Miles Hutchinson because I like Steve Ryan and thought they could do more with him. 

Bartlett doing it himself so he could save the astronauts.

Ellie Bartlett because of her support for scientists. 

Margaret. I mean...why not?

 

[Kohola3]

7 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Margaret. I mean...why not?

My vote is for Margaret!  I can see here justifying it to save the astronauts.

 

Margaret : Can - can I just say something, you know, for the future?

Leo McGarry : Yeah.

Margaret : *I* can sign the President's name. I have his signature down pretty good.

Leo McGarry : You can sign the President's name?

Margaret : Yeah.

Leo McGarry : On a document removing him from power and handing it to someone else?

Margaret : Yeah. Or, do you think the White House Counsel would say that was a bad idea?

Leo McGarry : I think the White House Counsel would say that's a coup d'etat.

Margaret : I'd probably end up doing some time for that.

Leo McGarry : I would think. And what the hell are you doing practicing the President's signature?

Margaret : It's just for fun.

Leo McGarry : We've got separation of powers, checks and balances, and Margaret, vetoing things and sending them back to the hill.

[BlackberryJam]

1 minute ago, Kohola3 said:

My vote is for Margaret!  I can see here justifying it to save the astronauts.

 

Margaret : Can - can I just say something, you know, for the future?

Leo McGarry : Yeah.

Margaret : *I* can sign the President's name. I have his signature down pretty good.

Leo McGarry : You can sign the President's name?

Margaret : Yeah.

Leo McGarry : On a document removing him from power and handing it to someone else?

Margaret : Yeah. Or, do you think the White House Counsel would say that was a bad idea?

Leo McGarry : I think the White House Counsel would say that's a coup d'etat.

Margaret : I'd probably end up doing some time for that.

Leo McGarry : I would think. And what the hell are you doing practicing the President's signature?

Margaret : It's just for fun.

Leo McGarry : We've got separation of powers, checks and balances, and Margaret, vetoing things and sending them back to the hill.

NiCole Robinson was great in the role. I loved her and Leo arguing over the Christmas cards. I also loved how they just had her walking around pregnant with absolutely no explanation. 

[sinkwriter]

Random side note: a potential client contacted my contract boss today, and the last name was Coatsworth. Which immediately made me snicker and suddenly think of Ms. Coatsworth-Hay and "Francis Scott Key" keys. Heeeee. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I also thought it was weird that Josh was calling Toby. I mean, the guy was toxic, right? So in the middle of a campaign, it didn’t make sense. 

That's why Toby was using a fake name, right?  Or at least when he called Josh.

And yes, Kate Harper should have been the leaker.  Or, you know, just never existed on the show.

[Moose135]

6 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Bartlett doing it himself so he could save the astronauts.

I can't imagine President Bartlet ever letting Toby take the fall if that were the case.

I've always suspected it was Toby's late brother's wife. The brother had said something to her about it, and after he died, she wanted to help save the crew on the shuttle. Toby figured out it was her (or she told him) and wasn't going to let her go to prison for it, so he took the blame.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, Moose135 said:

I've always suspected it was Toby's late brother's wife. The brother had said something to her about it, and after he died, she wanted to help save the crew on the shuttle. Toby figured out it was her (or she told him) and wasn't going to let her go to prison for it, so he took the blame.

That's a very plausible one!  Hadn't thought of that.

[BlackberryJam]

14 hours ago, Moose135 said:

I can't imagine President Bartlet ever letting Toby take the fall if that were the case.

I've always suspected it was Toby's late brother's wife. The brother had said something to her about it, and after he died, she wanted to help save the crew on the shuttle. Toby figured out it was her (or she told him) and wasn't going to let her go to prison for it, so he took the blame.

Oh, I wasn't being serious about Bartlett as the leaker, just throwing out some fun ideas.

I do like the idea of David's wife being the leaker. It just wasn't a great storyline overall. I do love the two episodes where Toby confesses, but I love anything with Oliver Babish.

 

[txhorns79]

23 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Bartlett doing it himself so he could save the astronauts.

If Bartlett had done it, I doubt he would have tried to hide it, particularly once it became clear that other staff members were being targeted as the culprit.

 

17 hours ago, Moose135 said:

I've always suspected it was Toby's late brother's wife. The brother had said something to her about it, and after he died, she wanted to help save the crew on the shuttle. Toby figured out it was her (or she told him) and wasn't going to let her go to prison for it, so he took the blame.

It seems unlikely a reputable newspaper would treat her as a credible source when it came to discussing a classified military shuttle, particularly if it became clear she was relying on information that came from a now deceased third party. 

[blondiec0332]

https://news.avclub.com/someone-wrote-a-2020-west-wing-episode-on-twitter-and-i-1845278788

This really does sound like a West Wing scene.

[BlackberryJam]

That was fabulous. I miss soaring rhetoric.

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

It seems unlikely a reputable newspaper would treat her as a credible source when it came to discussing a classified military shuttle, particularly if it became clear she was relying on information that came from a now deceased third party.

Not as a sole source, but for a starting place, quite possibly. Talk to a few other trusted sources, rattle a few cages, and see what pops up.

[ProudMary]

9 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

https://news.avclub.com/someone-wrote-a-2020-west-wing-episode-on-twitter-and-i-1845278788

This really does sound like a West Wing scene.

Great find. Glad you shared it!

[LizDC]

 

[shoregirl]

1 hour ago, LizDC said:

 

That's amazing. I started getting teary eyed seeing the cast this the opening score. "Welcome Back Mister President" ❤😭

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, LizDC said:

 

This is indeed inspiring.  Thankfully HBO is offering a trial run.  Hartsfield Landing does contain a few choice lines. I regularly use "Let's see how the  pizza turns out" when talking about the future.  

I've avoided the Toby discussion thus far, but I am moved to post the following Tobyism from HL:   

Toby - You're a good father, you don't have to act like it. You're the President, you don't have to act like it. You're a good man, you don't have to act like it. You're not just folks, you're not plain-spoken.  Do not, do not, do not act like it.  Make this election about smart, and not.  Make it about engaged, and not.  Qualified, and not. Make it about a heavyweight. You're a heavyweight.

And, of course, Bartlet did just that in the debate. 

[SoMuchTV]

Well. I’m watching for the first time, and trying to skim over anything spoilery. I’m in early season 4 (re-election, debate prep) and at this point it’s feeling like competence-porn. 

[BW Manilowe]

7 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

This is indeed inspiring.  Thankfully HBO is offering a trial run.  Hartsfield Landing does contain a few choice lines. I regularly use "Let's see how the  pizza turns out" when talking about the future.  

I've avoided the Toby discussion thus far, but I am moved to post the following Tobyism from HL:   

Toby - You're a good father, you don't have to act like it. You're the President, you don't have to act like it. You're a good man, you don't have to act like it. You're not just folks, you're not plain-spoken.  Do not, do not, do not act like it.  Make this election about smart, and not.  Make it about engaged, and not.  Qualified, and not. Make it about a heavyweight. You're a heavyweight.

And, of course, Bartlet did just that in the debate. 

Regarding the bolded: The reunion special is on HBO Max, not the mothership HBO. If you’re gonna go the “use the free trial long enough to watch the special, then drop the channel” route, make sure you sign up for the right channel.

[BW Manilowe]

Sorry for the late notice for at least some of you... Thanks to my Facebook feed...

I just found out that TNT will be airing what appears to be selected episodes of TWW on Friday mornings (ONLY); for 3 hours, from 9AM Eastern through 12 Noon Eastern/8AM Central through 11 AM Central, through the election.

The run starts off this morning with “Hartsfield’s Landing” at 9AM Eastern/8AM Central & the 2-part episode “20 Hours in America Part I & Part II” at 10AM Eastern/9AM Central & 11AM Eastern/10AM Central.

Edited October 9, 2020 by BW Manilowe
To correct a time zone.

[Kohola3]

12 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

Sorry for the late notice for at least some of you... Thanks to my Facebook feed...

 

THANKS!   I would never have known, will set my DVR.  Just in the nick of time, too.

[marypat57]

The episodes for 10/16 will be from season 4:

4.3:  College Kids

4.4:  The Red Mass

4.5:  Debate Camp

That’s as far as my channel guide goes...

[BW Manilowe]

For those (mostly, at this point) on the west coast: Allison, Martin, Richard, Bradley & Sorkin are the group virtual guests on tonight’s A Late Show with Stephen Colbert on CBS. It’s on as I post in the Eastern & Central Time Zones (sorry east coasters; I was watching the basketball game, which ran late, & I didn’t know until I came upon it afterwards... there’s always on demand, or there should be). If you’re in the Mountain & Pacific Time Zone,  or further west (Alaska, Hawaii, etc.), it should be on right after your local CBS affiliate’s late news.

Edited October 10, 2020 by BW Manilowe
To change The to A in the title, as it aired last night.

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

 Allison, Martin, Richard, Bradley & Sorkin are the group virtual guests on tonight’s The Late Show with Stephen Colbert on CBS

It will be on YouTube soon. 
Bring Kleenex. 

[A.Ham]

So naturally I discovered that though I pay plenty for cable and internet, I don't have TNT. Bummer.

And of course I did not see the Colbert alert in time, but I will be searching for it post-haste! So thanks BW Manilowe!

[VCRTracking]

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by VCRTracking

[BW Manilowe]

There are other Colbert clips on YouTube besides those embedded here.

Also, you can watch the FULL episode NOW, FOR FREE, on cbs.com,  or (if you don’t already have it) through CBS All Access on the CBS app—but on the app it’s a Free 1-Week Trial of CBS All Access, then you have to subscribe. I just watched the whole ep through cbs.com (though I have the app) & I think I found out I only missed, like, 20-25 minutes (about half) of it.

Does anyone have any thoughts about Emmy-winner Sterling K. Brown as Leo in the benefit performance (Sorkin said on the show he doesn’t want it to be called a “reunion”)? Just curious.

[Artsda]

On 10/8/2020 at 2:47 PM, LizDC said:

 

I loved this so much and seeing them all together again. 

[Bastet]

I love the fabric on Allison Janney's sofa.

I don't want to mess with signing up for a trial of yet another streaming service just to watch the benefit special, but the trailer sure makes it tempting.

3 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

Does anyone have any thoughts about Emmy-winner Sterling K. Brown as Leo in the benefit performance

I like him as an actor, and this show could use some extra melanin.  It'll be weird to see/hear someone else as Leo, and the chemistry between Leo and Bartlet, especially, will obviously be different with another actor, but I think Brown will fit in well and have the right presence.

[PeterPirate]

Well, I just added HBO to my cable account.  Not sure if I will keep it after one month.  But I figure I will have to turn in my West Wing pin if I don't pay $10 to watch an episode that I already have on discs and Netflix.      

One thing I gleaned from the Colbert interview is that some people who were not in the episode, like Marlee Matlin, will be doing GOTV spots between acts.   

[BW Manilowe]

4 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Well, I just added HBO to my cable account.  Not sure if I will keep it after one month.  But I figure I will have to turn in my West Wing pin if I don't pay $10 to watch an episode that I already have on discs and Netflix.      

One thing I gleaned from the Colbert interview is that some people who were not in the episode, like Marlee Matlin, will be doing GOTV spots between acts.   

You signed up for HBOMax, right? That’s where it’s airing, & it’s a totally different channel than HBO & I’d hate to have anybody miss the special (trying to avoid using the “R word” Sorkin doesn’t want the production described as) because they signed up for the wrong channel.

I already signed up for HBOMax quite awhile ago. I hope somebody releases the production on DVD though, because I’m sure it’ll be worth it for us “Wingnuts” to add to our collections & so anybody who somehow misses the HBOMax airing can at least see it that way.

[BW Manilowe]

From EW.com: Stockard Channing Reflects on The West Wing and Her Instant Chemistry with Martin Sheen