S08.E01: Judy

[FormerMod-a1]

Judy's life is a dangerous one of severe contradictions. She is an extreme germaphobe who spends her entire day engaged in sanitization rituals, yet she lives in a severe and extremely filthy hoard overridden with mice whom she considers her friends. The situation is so hazardous to her health the fire department and health department have mandated a clean up.

 

 

[FormerMod-a1]

Who knew you could be a germaphobe and a hoarder?

 

I'm glad it looks like Judy is at least taking advantage of the after-care therapy.  And good on Dr Tolin for calling APS.

[camom]

Yeah, her being a germaphobe while living in that filth was interesting.  Mental illness really messes people up.

[Grommet]

Judy was deeply unlikable but clearly mentally ill, a victim of her various OCD behaviors. I'm glad her daughter saved herself and got out of there.

[Lightning]

She appeared unlikeable on the show, but did have several good friends there to help her who seemed to genuinely care about her.  I am really worried that she is going to get a horrible infection in her feet/legs from walking around barefoot and never putting her feet up.  She could step on something, and without good blood circulation to her extremities, she is a prime candidate for sepsis.  She has way too many mental problems for this show to fix in three days, no matter how good the professionals are.   I had to laugh about putting the newspaper down in her friend's car.  Her friend was probably just as glad to have her do it.  LOL.

[all fall down]

I feel bad for Judy. But yeah, germaphobe hoarder is a new one. Like Dr. Tolin said, her different conditions are feeding off each other. Hopefully she will get therapy and make some progress in her house and life. 

[AuntTora]

Hrm. I really liked that Dr. Tobin (Tolin?) said a lot of the things to Judy that we, viewers, have desperately wanted to say to these hoarders. And it didn't do a bit of good. And Corey's move with the filth-meter was genius! Also completely failed.

Judy was personally a little discomfiting, because at the beginning when she was running through some of her rituals, I was kind of thinking, well, that's not so bad...that's almost reasonable...that seems kind of familiar.... Until she started having to open and rip up bags before (theoretically) throwing them away. Then I snapped out of it! (It's perfectly rational to take a shower and wash my hair when I get home after being on an airplane dammit!)

Sherri was awesome. I hope that APS has gotten involved by now and taken over. Remember the hoarder (though I don't recall if it was this show or the other one) who also relied on diapers and a plastic chair that acted as her chair/couch/bed? She ended up in some kind of home and it was the best thing that could have happened.

 

Edited to add: Reverend Awesome is on the case:

"Those are good pants!" -Judy
"I'm not fucking around with you! Your life is crushing down on you and you want to talk about pants?!" -Tolin
I'd like a better look at these pants.

 

Edited January 4, 2016 by AuntTora

[aliya]

I was glad to see the harder tone taken with this hoarder, though her problems were so severe, I'm not sure how much it helped. I got so sick of these people being coddled by organizers and therapists. I get that they may go back to hoarding - then APS and CPS need to step in, the city needs to take the house, etc. Don't wait on these folks hoping they will change.

 

Couldn't the dogs have cut their mouths licking out the cans like that? Eww.  These people always say they love their pets, but I'm not buying it.

 

Most people who really want to adopt and have an adoption fall through, will try again. She just fell apart. She couldn't have an Indian kid so that's it? Her life is over? Are there no older American children in need of a mature parent?  Well, from the looks of things, it's probably a good thing she didn't get the Indian child. Some little kid might have dodged a bullet there.

[honeywest]

Daughter: "It's got mouse poop on it!"

 

Judy: "I know. Everything does."

[notyrmomma]

I think this is the most mentally ill person we have seen on this show.  There were no words (including yelling and tears) that anyone could say to get Judy to break out of her own mind and see the truth.  She is sick and needs medication, I don't know which medication, but she needs something strong.  If I were her daughter, I would personally be pushing for the city to take her house so she can get on medicaid and check her into a nursing home--preferably one that specializes in mental illness.  I wouldn't even suggest that her daughter try to take her in as she is not equipt to handle this degree of mental illness.  This was indeed a very sad episode.

 

Then to top it off, they had to play the freaking sadest ASPCA commercial I have ever seen and I couldn't change the channel quick enough so I was treated to the first few bars of the song with words something like "and you give up trying" or something like that.  My dad is in hospice right now and basically gave up on his life--thanks a lot assholes for reminding me.  I absolutely love animals, but I wouldn't give a penny to this organization JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR COMMERCIALS!  Sorry if that was off-topic, I had to get it off my chest.

[AuntTora]

but I wouldn't give a penny to this organization JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR COMMERCIALS

 

I was thinking this exact thing. They are WAY OFF with these commercials. Show happy kittens and old dogs finding loving homes! Have the narrator say, you can make this happen with your contribution. But I think 99% of people will change the channel or FF when these come on, they way they are now. Brutal.

[Lightning]

Off topic as well -- those commercials must be working because each animal rescue organization uses something similar now.  I'd give to local shelters and rescues before the large well-advertised ones. 

[notyrmomma]

Also-I would have asked Judy if she ever actually found any money in those ripped up bags. If so, I would help her look. Lol There was one hoarder either on this show or another one that had money and checks hidden all over the place (I think they found somewhere around $20k). I have a feeling that this is not the case with Judy.

[Madding crowd]

I can't wrap my mind around someone who is afraid of germs, yet not afraid of mouse urine and poop covering their every belonging. She is also not afraid of leaving soiled diapers around, or eating food that is sitting around in filth. Very, very odd disorder. I don't even know how she could get any sleep in the lawn chair. I have acid reflux and tried to sleep in a reclining chair and couldn't even do that.

 

I do wonder how this woman has these apparently close friends, who don't know what her house looks like or don't seem to know she is basically dying in the filth. Not to mention the daughter who hasn't stepped foot inside for 10 years. I was happy to see Corey again, I like him better than Matt because I think Matt plays up to the cameras too much.

 

I'm not a mental health expert, but it seems to me that it never works when they try to insist the person allow family members or friends to make decisions for them. I understand the need for speed and for assistance, but this particular tactic never works. They should try something else like set a timer and say so much has to be gone through, or insist on finding quick ways to separate things to be gone through from garbage or have the homeowner make a quick written list of what type of things can be tossed, if they won't do it, tell them adult protective services will be called. 

 

I actually can kind of understand not wanting people who don't know you to decide whether you can keep something or not, but here the emphasis needs to be more on the City throwing the person out, and the enforcing the minimum required. Long time change is not going to happen for most of these people without extensive therapy. I was thinking of the old show Clean House with Niecy Nash which I loved; in every episode, they would pick out some belonging the person loved (grandma's teapot, or a favorite shirt from the dead husband) and then spend too much time insisting this one item had to go when there were hundred of other items which could have been sold/trashed/donated. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by Madding crowd

[Cherrio]

I agree with Madding crowd, where is the city?  APS?   The HOA of the trailer park? Those trailers were so close together I do not get why Judy was allowed to get away with it for all these years? Not to mention she could of been the catalyst for burning down the entire park.

       I know its a show, with producers manipulating things, but we so rarely see officials coming in and saying that's it, we are done.

                   Judy is too far gone and should not be allowed to endanger all the other people in her community. You do not reason with a person who is insisting on unfolding a page of comics covered in piss and shit to read it.

[briochetwist]

I agree with Madding crowd, where is the city?  APS?   The HOA of the trailer park? 

 

       I know its a show, with producers manipulating things, but we so rarely see officials coming in and saying that's it, we are done.

                   

While I completely agree with you, I'm pretty sure that those people wouldn't consent to being on tv. Nobody wants to be the bad guy, and no one from the city wants to be seen as throwing mentally ill people out of their homes and into the street.

Edited January 4, 2016 by briochetwist

[Primetimer]

Hoarders kicks off its eighth season by introducing us to Judy, who lives in a rodent-infested hoard, yet has strict rules about the 'low lifes' who might 'contaminate' it.

Read the story

[mmecorday]

I knew when this episode started that it wasn't going to have a happy ending. It is frightening what mental illness can do to a person. Judy's issues were so severe there was no way that she could have been helped in three days. OCD, germaphobia, hoarding disorder, not to mention the mobility problems linked to her circulatory issues. I certainly hope that things get better for Judy. A lot of times I watch this show and think these people are just being jerks, but Judy is very clearly suffering from deep-seeded mental problems. I hope one day she gets the care that she needs.

[Cherrio]

While I completely agree with you, I'm pretty sure that those people wouldn't consent to being on tv. Nobody wants to be the bad guy, and no one from the city wants to be seen as throwing mentally ill people out of their homes and into the street.

I totally agree with you too.   But, I think most people would not have a problem with or see anyone as a bad guy, but again I totally get it.    I would give the hoarder a chance to clear out the home while the cleaning crew is there, but if they do not comply, then that would be it.

      I know they have had the same animal specialists on many times and those folks always come it and do the right thing, no arguing, no deals, no nothing.   That is how it should be handled.

       Judy's hoard was an extreme fire and toxic hazard. No one should have to live next to that or anywhere near that.

[AuntTora]

Two things I really, really want to see the experts try with these people:

 

1. For the newspaper/media hoarders, give them an iPad, a subscription to the paper/magazine, and show them how to search.

2. Ask at the outset, what percentage of this stuff do you think needs to go? When asked, people are often surprisingly reasonable when it's a "big picture" question. Then when they argue about a piece of urinated paper, ask them how this fits into their percentage analysis? I'd just really like to see that attempted.

 

Agree Judy is probably too sick to respond to reason, in need of some kind of conservator situation, or at least heavy meds.

[Grommet]

An iPad would work only if the hoarder actually wanted to read the paper. Most hoarders just want the possibility of doing that, and they need the physical paper itself to see and touch and churn through.

 

There's no reasoning with hoarders who are mentally ill. I watched an earlier episode, with a former model whose daughter kept hoping she'd have a breakthrough of some kind, but it just didn't happen and it never will. Pointing out disordered thinking isn't enough to stop it. I have compulsions of my own and rationality is of very little use against them. I liked Dr. Tolin urging Judy to be courageous but I think she just doesn't have the emotional reserves to do it.

[Anoia]

• I don't think Judy normally has any contact to her daughter and granddaughter. I think they were there, because they were persuaded by the producers and when I read the update on the daughter, that she doesn't feel like she is able to help her, I wasn't surprised.
• I immidiately thought that poop moutain hides in the bedroom after she didn't want anyone to go in there.
• If she has no running water, where does she wash her clothes up to 8 times?

 

 

[cassandle]

Also-I would have asked Judy if she ever actually found any money in those ripped up bags. If so, I would help her look. Lol There was one hoarder either on this show or another one that had money and checks hidden all over the place (I think they found somewhere around $20k). I have a feeling that this is not the case with Judy.

 

I had an aunt who passed away a couple months ago who was a hoarder.  It's taking my cousins soooo long to clean out the house because she squirreled money away everywhere so they have to go through everything really carefully before throwing it away.  Last I heard they'd found about $200 (plus about $150 worth of postage stamps) and they've only cleaned out, maybe, 5% of the house.  I'll be curious to see what the final total is.

[JudyObscure]

I really don't have a lot of sympathy for family members who "have to," spend ages cleaning out a house because there might be money somewhere. Just like with Judy having to tear up every bag because, "There might be money!" To her I wanted to say, "So what? You want to talk money? Lets talk about the cost of having three junk trucks sitting outside all day, paying a dozen workers to stand around, and the hourly cost of a doctor like Dr. Tolin. We're throwing thousands away while you search for a possible dollar." My father was a level two or three hoarder who squirreled money everywhere, but after he was gone, my brother and I cleaned out his house in one day by just taking everything to the land fill. We may have thrown out a few valuable items and a thousand or so in cash, but we figured our time and sanity were worth money, too.

[LittleIggy]

Is Dr. Tolin new? I like his no nonsense, tell it like it is style. I don't know about the mental health laws in WA, but I practiced mental health law in TN and a judge there would give Judy's daughter a conservatorship over her mother with no problem. I was surprised when the exterminator said that there were probably 50 mice there. I was thinking more like 100s!

[silversage]

If it was agreed that professionals would come in and clean up the place then why do the hoarders go back on their word? To Judy I would say it's a done deal, give her a few new bags to go through to distract her and clean out the place an not listen to her protests.

 

Better yet, why don't they send the hoarder away for a few days like they used to do on those extreme home makeover shows. The formula they have now isn't really working.

[JudyObscure]

give her a few new bags to go through to distract her

Is it so wrong that I'm laughing at that picture? Judy tearing up bag corners looking for dimes while her house is emptied?

Tempting as it would be, they tried the forced clean-ups in some cities and the hoarders were actually killing themselves afterward. Poor things felt so exposed and violated they couldn't go on. I think that's why Corey and Dr. Tolin suddenly backed off when they realized they were up against that kind of mental illness.

God bless the people who work with the hoarders, because I would be setting an "accidental," fire after a day in adult-diaper hell.

littleiggy,

Is Dr. Tolin new? I like his no nonsense, tell it like it is style.

No Dr. Tolin is not new but his no nonsense style is. He's usually the softest of the softies and I have a big crush on him. Hearing him say the f-word had me reaching for my smelling salts.

Edited January 5, 2016 by JudyObscure

[Grommet]

Wasn't Dr Tolin on some early episodes? Was he on with the woman who had 5 year old yogurt? (Non puffy, of course.) I thought he was great on this episode, trying various methods to get through to Judy.

[auntjess]

 

I really don't have a lot of sympathy for family members who "have to," spend ages cleaning out a house because there might be money somewhere. Just like with Judy having to tear up every bag because, "There might be money!"

I think there's a difference, though, with non-hoarding elderly people who stash away money, and forget where it is, and Judy.

She seemed to be after change that might have fallen in a grocery bag, and got stuck under a flap.

[terrymct]

More and more, I look at people like Judy and think that the best thing for her would be placement in some sort of assisted living with psychiatric care.   I know, however, that you can't compel an adult to get treatment until they're a danger to themselves (or others I'd assume).  Wouldn't some of these hoards constitute a danger to the person?  Potential crushing by piles of "valuable belongings" and drifts of mouse/rat crap on the floor?  No basic sanitation?  All of that a direct result of the person's own decisions (or inability to make decisions) means that the person is putting themselves in danger of dying or coming down with a serious illness.  I suspect that the line for "harm to themselves" is more likely in the area of potential suicide or delusions that involve weapons.   These people ARE a danger to themselves and sometimes others.

I can't wrap my mind around someone who is afraid of germs, yet not afraid of mouse urine and poop covering their every belonging. She is also not afraid of leaving soiled diapers around, or eating food that is sitting around in filth. 

 

I got the feeling that it's not really that the items might be covered in germs, but more that they're items that she somehow feels are or have been fully in her control.  Laying things out in the sunshine doesn't really decontaminate them, but in her mind it passes the item through a gateway where they become under her control.

[Grommet]

Laying things out in the sunshine doesn't really decontaminate them, but in her mind it passes the item through a gateway where they become under her control.

 

I think you're spot on here. Hoarders definitely need control (thus having to look at every.single.thing leaving their house) and Judy's hoarding has a frosting of germaphobia, so I can see why she'd conflate "under her control" with "sanitized."

 

As for assisted living, I've had personal experience with the care system (in NYS, anyway), and it's beyond depressing. There's barely enough room or resources for people who cannot physically take care of themselves so the mentally ill are surely not a priority.

[JudyObscure]

I suspect that the line for "harm to themselves" is more likely in the area of potential suicide or delusions that involve weapons. These people ARE a danger to themselves and sometimes others.

Yes, and even those people aren't always given the protective care they need. I once asked a psychiatrist about commitment laws and he said that, "a danger to himself or others," was often interpreted to mean, "He either has a gun pointed at himself or at the doctor." I've witnessed a young man with schizophrenia taken to the hospital with slashed wrists, given a big shot of Haldol, asked if he still felt like killing himself and sent home when he mumbled, "No." So I guess living in filth among tottering piles of junk wouldn't be considered dangerous enough for most adult commitment orders.

[Cherrio]

Wasn't Dr Tolin on some early episodes? Was he on with the woman who had 5 year old yogurt? (Non puffy, of course.) I thought he was great on this episode, trying various methods to get through to Judy.

Her !!!!!!     I can still hear her saying "Its delicious !" after she ate some black squishy thing out of a jar.

I came back to add that the music in the background at the end of both fails reminded me of the Titanic.    Scary and treacherous.

[auntjess]

I think that since she had such an awful mouse infestation,, the city should be able to go after her for a public health hazard.
On one of the hoarding shows, a neighbor got action, because the rats were invading her house too.

[briochetwist]

I think there's a difference, though, with non-hoarding elderly people who stash away money, and forget where it is, and Judy.

She seemed to be after change that might have fallen in a grocery bag, and got stuck under a flap.

Like your great Aunt June, who doesn't trust banks, so she sews up thousands into her drapes and then forgets!

[auntjess]

When my grandmother died, they found mostly checks sent by her sons, but also some cash.
She'd put things up because she begrudged my grandfather any extra spending money.

[aliya]

I used to practice law and dealt with parents who had adult schizophrenic children. I also have a mentally ill half-sister. Trust me, when the psychiatrist said, "He either has a gun pointed at himself or at the doctor." He didn't lie. It is harder than heck to get someone committed. My half-sister is college educated and articulate. It took her paranoia making her move out of town (so people couldn't spy on her) to give my parents some peace; God knows they couldn't get her committed or on meds, and my stepfather was also lawyer.

 

I think the comments about APS or the city stepping in are more about what should have been done before the show got there. I doubt any of us are expecting the city to show up during the show, unless it's been set up that way ('X has 3 days before he gets arrested' kind of thing). These terrible situations go on for so long, you have to wonder where are the city and social services.

 

Y'all remember Dr Tolin had his own show for awhile? I think about obsessive behaviors, but I'm not sure.

 

Finally, re moving the hoarder out for a few days and cleaning the house, the mental health people always say that if you don't get buy-in from the hoarder, they will 1)have some kind of breakdown and 2)hoard it back up in no time. Hey, I'd like to ship these people off as well, but apparently we have to handle them with kid gloves so they don't freak out - as if their current behaviors weren't problematic already. 

[auntieminem]

I have no problem with Dr. Tolin taking a stronger reality therapy approach but she was clearly too mentally ill for that to work with her.  They were right to pretty much give in and just try to make a path.  They said a neighbor had already reported her to APS so maybe they agreed to let them try to help her before removing her from the home.  APS laws are different in various states and their ability to intervene.  Many, many years ago I was an APS case worker and I  had 2  hoarders who lived in the same apartment building but that was before hoarding was a recognized mental illness.  One hoarded papers and she did in fact stick money in newspapers which she stacked throughout her house with just a path and she also slept on newspapers. 

[JudyObscure]

Soon, hoarders may be the only people keeping the newspaper business alive.

[LuciaMia]

Why do so many of these hoarders end up having no water in their homes and having to rely on diapers and buckets? Is it financial, not keeping up with repairs or that they're too embarrassed   have workmen come into the house?

[OSM Mom]

Why do so many of these hoarders end up having no water in their homes and having to rely on diapers and buckets? Is it financial, not keeping up with repairs or that they're too embarrassed have workmen come into the house?

Probably a bit of all three.

[JosieThePussycat]

Then to top it off, they had to play the freaking sadest ASPCA commercial I have ever seen and I couldn't change the channel quick enough so I was treated to the first few bars of the song with words something like "and you give up trying" or something like that.  My dad is in hospice right now and basically gave up on his life--thanks a lot assholes for reminding me.  I absolutely love animals, but I wouldn't give a penny to this organization JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR COMMERCIALS!  Sorry if that was off-topic, I had to get it off my chest.

 

Maybe because I watch very little TV, but - do Hoarders and Intervention and that ilk run these ads more than other shows? Maybe we're seen as more sensitive, empathetic viewers susceptible to dramatic appeals. (Sarah McLachlan who does these ads for the SPCA can't even watch them, but says they've made over 30 million dollars.)

 

Is Dr. Tolin new? I like his no nonsense, tell it like it is style.

 

He rocks soo hard! Very early on, he covered more explicitly than I have ever heard on the show what happens to the brain of a hoarder. The other therapists try more to meet the clients on their own turf - rationalizing, working within their frame of reality. Tolin tried right up front to tell her that her own instincts, the choices she had made til now, couldn't be trusted because her brain has become muddled. I know from dealing with my own mental illness that you must tear down and rebuild your thinking process if you want to heal. Tolin jumped right to it. I wish the others brought that up as fast and as clearly as he did.

Tempting as it would be, they tried the forced clean-ups in some cities and the hoarders were actually killing themselves afterward. Poor things felt so exposed and violated they couldn't go on. I think that's why Corey and Dr. Tolin suddenly backed off when they realized they were up against that kind of mental illness.

 

Yeah. Although Hoarders' producers have absolutely crossed the line into exploitation any number of times, the professionals - therapists and cleaners both - do seem motivated primarily by helping the client. That includes being honest about limitations regardless of show biz considerations. Good for them.

 

On the same note -

 

I have no problem with Dr. Tolin taking a stronger reality therapy approach but she was clearly too mentally ill for that to work with her. 

 

I like that he gave her every possible chance to show any potential at all for improvement, before he ultimately gave up. Makes me ponder the difference between this telescoped approach vs the normal trajectory, which lets the therapist take time to learn the person's thinking processes and plot a way forward. These guys have, what, one day of prep and three days of taping?

 

(Edited because I'm indecisive by nature.)

Edited January 7, 2016 by JosieThePussycat

[funky-rat]

Why do so many of these hoarders end up having no water in their homes and having to rely on diapers and buckets? Is it financial, not keeping up with repairs or that they're too embarrassed   have workmen come into the house?

To some degree, it's probably a little bit of all 3, but it's a little worse for Judy because she's in a Mobile Home.  For starters, it can be hard to find people willing to work on Mobile Homes - my parents helped my husband and I purchase one last year, after we got "kicked out" of our rental home after 17 years because the landlady wanted to sell.  Mobile Homes have special plumbing lines with extremely long plumbing runs, and that carries it's own set of problems, and you can't treat mobile home plumbing like you would house plumbing.  So first, she'd have to find someone who was willing to work on a Mobile Home.  Then she'd have to give them access to not only the house, but the crawlspace underneath.  I don't recall where she was located, but if it's in an area that gets cold, her plumbing lines could have frozen at one time, and ruptured.  That happens a LOT with mobiles.  Many owners use heat tape, but I don't like it - I'm scared of fire - so I use something different to keep my pipes moving.  Her heat tape could have quit working, or she might not have any at all.  To replace it is expensive.  And the cost to fix damaged plumbing in a mobile is high.  So something happened to her water, and she may not have had the money, or she didn't want to let anyone in for fear of seeing her living conditions, or she did let someone in who ran in the other direction.

I cringed when I saw the doublewide at the start of the show.  After living in a Mobile for 6 months, I know all about what happens if you neglect even basic maintenance on them, as you saw with the holes in her floor.  We were fortunate in that the original owners took great care of it.  There was another person living in it for the past 9 years before we bought it, and she had an affinity for duct and packing tape (pulled it off of everything), but for the most part, it was maintained somewhat well.  My husband doesn't understand why I'm on the phone the second I see something wrong, but I am making 100% sure that a $50 repair doesn't turn into a $500 repair, which can happen in the blink of an eye.

As for her park ownership not stepping in, it's not always obvious to the naked eye that someone is hoarding or causing damage, and as long as she's not violating any rules, I'm not sure if they could step in and do anything about it, other than order her to remove her doublewide from the property (and I doubt that could be done with the condition it was in), assuming she owns the doublewide and just leases the ground, as we do, and as 99% of parks out there do.  We have extremely proactive ownership where we live, which is a good thing because it makes for a much more pleasant place to live.  They do yearly inspections and let you know if something needs to be done, but those are only done on the outside - nothing is done on the inside.  They told us all of our wooden stairs and ramps needed to be painted, which we did, and we were asked to remove rotten bushes, which we did before we even moved in.  They also look for things like broken/damaged skirting and windows, and excessive stuff sitting on the property, etc.  But as for what goes on inside, I'm not sure how much they can control that.  There's a mobile home right inside the entrance that I'm fairly sure is hoarded up.  There are nicknacks in every available window, and there is an attached enclosed porch that has a lot of boxes and other things, but it's not spilling out, and it's not full to the roof (yet, anyway), so I'm not sure what they could do, if anything.  I have some concern about the people across the street that just moved in.  They have a lot of junk piled up under their covered porch that they seem to have no urgency in moving in (meanwhile it's raining and bitter cold here), they got rid of the storage shed and built what looks like a workshop (none of the mobiles in our park have basements) so they have less storage space, and they have a washer that's been sitting in the driveway for 3 weeks now, and I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon (it must not be any good, because it's been outside all this time).  At least ownership won't let that go much longer.  I felt like going over the other day and giving him the phone number of someone I know that will get the washer and haul it away for free, but he and his wife don't seem friendly, so I let it go....for now.

ETA:  Our water bill is included with our lot rent - our ownership reads the meters, and if someone suddenly had very little (or a ton) of water usage, they'd be asking questions, but perhaps her water isn't included.

Edited January 7, 2016 by funky-rat

[Irritable]

I've watched approximately eleventy-seven-hundred shows about hoarding, and I think Judy was the most mentally ill person I've ever witnessed on any of them.  I actually binged through the 4 most recent episodes this weekend, and was disheartened to find that this seems to be the trend this season - people so seriously ill that I can't make fun of anything they do without feeling like a jerk.  I want to go back to seeing fixable homes that belong to people who say and do assholey things that aren't so heartbreakingly disturbing that I'm left feeling gut punched. Stubborn lazy assholes are one thing, irretrievably broken insane people are another.  At first, I thought she was a giant asshole for daring to call other people "low lifes" who are filthy and contaminated, but once her entire  picture became clear it was a whole different thing.

 

My mother was a hoarder, and had a HEEYUGE thing for newspapers.  Back then, though, papers were still prevalent over online news, or at least at equal usage.  She had piles and piles going back for years, and wouldn't let me remove even one because she hadn't "gotten around to reading it yet, but definitely would, one day".  It was true that she enjoyed reading newspapers from cover to cover, and I'm not sure how she got so far behind because I remember as a child she always seemed to have one open every day, but if she thought she was going to miss one little thing out of any edition, it had to stay in the house even if it sat at the bottom of a 5 foot tall stack for 15 years. Like Judy, one of her reasons for keeping them was that she wanted to keep some of the cartoons, so I bought her books of the full collections of her favorites, like The Far Side and Garfield, thinking having them all neatly in one bound publication would allow her to release the papers that might have had a good cartoon inside, but...no.

 

My mom also had stuffed money in all sorts of strange places, but it never occurred to me to check the newspapers for cash - although I agree that it seemed less like Judy had stashed money, more like she was worried that she hadn't gotten all of her change out of shopping bags, which seems easy enough to take care of by always doing a thorough check of the bag when you bring it home instead of placing it IN THE FUCKING OVEN?!?! to inspect later, but logic doesn't really apply to anything in Judy's world.  Like JudyObscure said, it was worth it to me to lose out on the $50 I might have discovered to just carry the stacks of papers out intact and toss them swiftly into the dumpster.  Although, I did end up hand-sifting the small items that had worked their way underneath the knee-high layer of trash throughout the house, because all of the family jewelry and antique coins she had inherited had somehow ended up on the floor mixed in with pieces of broken things, cat turds, roach carcasses and cigarette butts.  I just couldn't bring myself to shovel all that away, as awful as the task of sifting was. 

 

Here's something I never thought I would say:  I'm proud of my mom for never resorting to wearing adult diapers as an alternative to making a working toilet a priority.  Granted, she was down to one toilet that only halfway functioned because the septic tank was full, but had I encountered used diapers throughout the house, I honestly don't know what that would have done to me.  I might have set the house on fire and walked away without even watching it burn.

 

The only thing I could relate to with Judy was that she wanted the mice gone, but not killed.  I've never had a mouse in my home, but if I did, I could see myself dealing with the same dilemma because I'm a ridiculous softie about all animals (and thankfully I already FF through commercials anyway, so I never saw any of the sad abused animal ads).  I'm grateful that was not something I had to deal with at my mother's house, because I have no idea what  would have done about it.  Maybe nothing.  Just empty the house of the contents, then sell it as-is with a notation that there was a mouse infestation to be dealt with, I guess.  I sort of had to do that anyway, because there was black mold in rooms where the roof and ceilings had caved in and allowed buckets of rain inside.  Things like that I ended up having to leave as someone else's problem, and would have just tried to block it from my mind if exterminating rodents had been part of the deal.

 

The part where she was sitting in her chair fumbling with a package of food in her lap, fell asleep, woke up and resumed fumbling with the food until she retrieved some of it to eat was strange, and watching it felt like a huge invasion of her privacy somehow, which I know is not really even a thing on this show, but I still felt extra icky for seeing it.  Not sure why.

 

edited to add:  When Judy asked if the mice could be trapped and released into a field somewhere, it reminded me of the time my husband went on a guy's trip where they stayed in a cabin on the Okefenokee Swamp to do some fishing, boating and other manly stuff.  One of the guys brought a box full of white mice that I’m not clear what exactly the intended use was…I think they were to be some sort of bait, or maybe he thought it would be fun to feed them to alligators.  Anyway, my husband (who is a catch-and-release fisherman who never uses live bait of any kind) was disgusted by this, so that night he snuck away with the box, took the mice outside and released them into the field behind the cabin.  He smiled as he watched them scamper away to freedom, and then gasped in horror as he saw an owl swoop down and grab every last one of them.  He has never gone on one of those man-trips again. He is my people.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Irritable

[Stripper Glitter]

Shouldn't her caretaker have been reporting this all along?

[MissCurmudgeonly]

edited to add:  When Judy asked if the mice could be trapped and released into a field somewhere, it reminded me of the time my husband went on a guy's trip where they stayed in a cabin on the Okefenokee Swamp to do some fishing, boating and other manly stuff.  One of the guys brought a box full of white mice that I’m not clear what exactly the intended use was…I think they were to be some sort of bait, or maybe he thought it would be fun to feed them to alligators.  Anyway, my husband (who is a catch-and-release fisherman who never uses live bait of any kind) was disgusted by this, so that night he snuck away with the box, took the mice outside and released them into the field behind the cabin.  He smiled as he watched them scamper away to freedom, and then gasped in horror as he saw an owl swoop down and grab every last one of them.  He has never gone on one of those man-trips again. He is my people.

 

Your husband is awesome. Good effort on his part - that's totally something that I would try to do, and the same thing would have happened....

[Mu Shu]

More and more, I look at people like Judy and think that the best thing for her would be placement in some sort of assisted living with psychiatric care. I know, however, that you can't compel an adult to get treatment until they're a danger to themselves (or others I'd assume). Wouldn't some of these hoards constitute a danger to the person? Potential crushing by piles of "valuable belongings" and drifts of mouse/rat crap on the floor? No basic sanitation? All of that a direct result of the person's own decisions (or inability to make decisions) means that the person is putting themselves in danger of dying or coming down with a serious illness. I suspect that the line for "harm to themselves" is more likely in the area of potential suicide or delusions that involve weapons. These people ARE a danger to themselves and sometimes others.

I got the feeling that it's not really that the items might be covered in germs, but more that they're items that she somehow feels are or have been fully in her control. Laying things out in the sunshine doesn't really decontaminate them, but in her mind it passes the item through a gateway where they become under her control.

There's an inkling of sense in laying things in the sun to decontaminate. Ultraviolet light breaks down the structure of viruses, and she had a whole hoard of rat mouses with virus potential.

Then again, probably every surface in that house was covered in rat mouse virus, so her efforts were futile.

I got a kick out of a filthy looking woman calling bus riders and long haired people low lifes. Oh Judi, even a snake couldn't crawl under you.

That much shit hoarded in a trailer would have destroyed the floor and weakened the entire structure. Condemn it and tear it down.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 1/22/2016 at 7:40 AM, Mu Shu said:

That much shit hoarded in a trailer would have destroyed the floor and weakened the entire structure. Condemn it and tear it down.

Every time they have an episode that takes place in a trailer I want them to cut a hole in the wall at one end of the house and raise up the other end so all the junk just falls out the hole. Or just for ones in really bad shape just load the whole thing onto the back of a GOT-JUNK flatbed and haul it away.

I really wondered if Judy slept in her house at night during clean-up. It must have been super creepy having those 20+ snap mouse traps going off over the night. 

[funky-rat]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 0:59 PM, AuntTora said:

1. For the newspaper/media hoarders, give them an iPad, a subscription to the paper/magazine, and show them how to search.

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 1:15 PM, Grommet said:

An iPad would work only if the hoarder actually wanted to read the paper. Most hoarders just want the possibility of doing that, and they need the physical paper itself to see and touch and churn through.

They tried this on one of the Hoarder shows - they took a guy who had rooms full of newspaper who was somewhat academic (or at least pretended to be) and asked him to sort through the papers, take out the articles he wanted "to read later" and scan them in to a computer.  They were willing to give him a free Neat Scanner (and come to think of it, I haven't seen one of those ad in eons).  He refused, on the grounds that he couldn't be convinced that the article would still be there when he was ready to read it.

 

13 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Every time they have an episode that takes place in a trailer I want them to cut a hole in the wall at one end of the house and raise up the other end so all the junk just falls out the hole. Or just for ones in really bad shape just load the whole thing onto the back of a GOT-JUNK flatbed and haul it away.

I really wondered if Judy slept in her house at night during clean-up. It must have been super creepy having those 20+ snap mouse traps going off over the night. 

Once the structure is compromised, it's pretty much impossible to move them, and no reputable company will want to do so.  Where we live, we've seen 4 older mobiles now that had some sort of damage (usually water) get torn down.  A company comes in, and start stripping them down.  Takes about a week.  It's actually interesting to watch.  They harvest and recycle everything they can, and then the rest goes into a dumpster.  When they're down to the bare metal chassis, they either haul it away, or they cut it up and haul it away.

[mysticalflute]

This one was on again tonight and I couldn't help but laugh when Dr. Tolin kept going "SAVE YOURSELF, JUDY!" like some kind of TV preacher trying to get people to repent for their sins.

It was the only time I felt like laughing in such a brutal episode. The germaphobia and hoarding must be a nightmare for her head. I truly hope she got serious care.