S04.E09: Dark Waters

[catrox14]

And for New Year's he needs to flex his butt cheeks too

[bijoux]

 Lifetime should be making the unauthorized movie as we speak. 

Diggle would be laughing his ass off. Until he found out his character is credited as Black Driver. Then it's Diggle glare. Seriously, this is going to make Alex's campaign adviser career. He must have been a very good boy this year for all this to fall into place for him.

 

Oliver also had to save MM so I was ok with that.  Actually I was very happy that Merlyn was getting his ass kicked.  I wondered if Oliver was holding back when DD was punching him.  OQ maybe shouldn't be able to overcome DD in that moment.  He could though serve as a great distraction by taking a punch. 

 

Hey, maybe that is what the tattoo Constantine gave him does!  Keeps his face pretty no matter how many hits to his mug he takes!

Heh. Constantine would have known what really matters then.

 

Oliver holding back is how I read the scene. It's not that DD overpowered him, it's that Oliver didn't even fight back. It was part of the plan.

[theacostov]

I was dreading this episode. Knowing that Oliver was going to propose and most likely not tell Felicity about the kid first, combined with how the last Olicity scene of the last episode was completely tainted for me, I feared the same would happen with all their scenes. But somehow they weren't? I don't know how, but I could almost forget that kid existed because these two idiots were so freaking adorable in every scene. The way the proposal played out and SA's face throughout the episode basically confirmed to me that despite the lie, he REALLY loves Felicity. I really want to get inside Oliver's head regarding what he thinks he's going to do with this kid, because currently I'm confused. If Oliver isn't piling lie on top of lie (I'm mean is he really going to visit that kid after all this just happened, BM would be an idiot to let him near) I think this storyline won't destroy everything. And the way everyone was written this episode, they might resolve this without hysterics and character assassination. I will expect the worst though. 

 

EBR's comedic scenes were sooo good (loved the look on her face when she tapped Oliver on the back and then walked away) and damn the cell scene was everything I love about Olicity. 

 

I just really enjoyed this episode as an overall episode. I wasn't clock watching, or taken out of the show too much, (except flashbacks - seriously what even is the point). It's the first time I could tolerate Laurel since probably season 1. I think she would be so much better as a reoccurring character that comes and helps when they need extra back-up. She's so superfluous to the story on a regular basis though. 

 

Malcolm and Thea had an almost normal father/daughter moment where I was like, really? He turned you into a murderer, why are you pink swearing with him? Weird. Loved Thea's reaction to the proposal. So cute. 

 

I'm really enjoying Damien. His partners reminded me of Nikita with Percy and Oversight. I hope in the upcoming episodes we learn more a little bit each episode  of his plans. This is the main story that I'm actually interested in. Nikita did that so well with moving the main plot along each episode, I hope Arrow can do the same. All in all, I can't believe how much I actually enjoyed this episode after last weeks horror. I'm not going to trust again Arrow, but I'm not out yet. 

[arjumand]

Diggle would be laughing his ass off. Until he found out his character is credited as Black Driver. Then it's Diggle glare. Seriously, this is going to make Alex's campaign adviser career. He must have been a very good boy this year for all this to fall into place for him.

 

Heh. Constantine would have known what really matters then.

 

Oliver holding back is how I read the scene. It's not that DD overpowered him, it's that Oliver didn't even fight back. It was part of the plan.

 

I can't believe how slow I was when I watched the episode - of course Oliver had to hold back when fighting DD - he doesn't know Oliver's the Green Arrow!

 

Though I'm still annoyed it took Oliver so long to react to the obvious boxing-in trap scenario. And he didn't have the excuse he had before. I mean, the ghosts could still have shot up his car while he was trying to get away.

[Sasha]

There were so many great Olicity moments but my favorite is when Oliver proposes and Felicity does that cute little laugh. Twice. Not some sappy over the top crying just a small joyful giggle. EBR is just a treasure and so natural in her reactions. Her and SA really look into each others eyes when they speak. Like real people. Sounds simple but so many times actors are looking all around and you can just see them reading the lines but not with these two.

Even with other characters they seem really present in the moment. Sometimes in their intimate scenes I feel like a voyeur and should not be spying on them. But of course those are the times when I keep rewinding the dvr! I have become a hopeless fangirl. The only other time I was so invested in a couple was Buffy and Angel. This show better not break my heart like Joss Whedon!

Edited December 11, 2015 by Sasha

[bijoux]

EBR's comedic scenes were sooo good (loved the look on her face when she tapped Oliver on the back and then walked away) and damn the cell scene was everything I love about Olicity.

 

Another reaction I really loved and rewound is Felicity sort of going with Donna's squealing over Quentin, but not really squealing while simultaneously doing it for a completely different reason than Donna.

 

Speaking of rewinds, Oliver saying, "I haven't changed my mind," without missing a beat has got so many I've lost count. I really need to see this episode again.

[dtissagirl]

I don't think Darhk would have cared for his deal with Quentin but the most logical answer to that is that she was not at the party and Darhk picked up people from the party.

 

While I do think they kept Laurel out of the party so that she wouldn't be kidnapped, if she were at the party, why would DD think she was important to Oliver? DD knows she's important to Quentin, sure, but he wasn't threatening Quentin's loved ones, he was threatening Oliver's.

 

In the public eye, Thea's his sister, Felicity's his girlfriend, Diggle's his bodyguard/head of security who's been glued to his side for 4 years now. Laurel's public connection to Oliver is she works for the DA, which explains why they run in the same circles now that he's running for Mayor. And that they dated some years ago, but that just means Laurel's part of around 67% of the 18-49 female demo of Star City.

 

So, while it IS super hilarious that all the recappers are all going "trolololol Laurel isn't a loved one bwahahaha", from DD's POV -- well, she isn't.

[Chaser]

Laurel's "I helped too." line was bugging me. I knew that I wasn't a fan of the delivery. It was very light and teasing when in-show here is Oliver again not giving her credit (but willing to give it to Malcolm). I would have thought an eye-roll and snarking reply about her being there too would be more appropriate.

 

It was also a repeat of Felicity's line to him in 3x23. Which was weird. 

[diebartdie]

No. She is not dead. No. NononononononoooooooooooooooooooooofuckingNO. Kill Thea for all I care (please dont kill Thea, shes great). Kill Malcom (he already "died" once....but Barrowman does bring the camp). Kill Diggle (no please, he rocks so hard). Kill Laurel.....actually yes please, kill her and her stupid blond wig and stupid stupid canary cry. Revive sweet Felicity, give her some super powers and kill Dhark to death NOW please.

[bijoux]

Laurel's "I helped too." line was bugging me. I knew that I wasn't a fan of the delivery. It was very light and teasing when in-show here is Oliver again not giving her credit (but willing to give it to Malcolm). I would have thought an eye-roll and snarking reply about her being there too would be more appropriate.

 

It was also a repeat of Felicity's line to him in 3x23. Which was weird.

Her line last week about that being one of the reasons why they loved Felicity was also a repeat of Ray's line last year. Are they just not writing dialogue for her anymore, instead recycling other characters' old lines?

[Western]

I'm not well, so a big thank you to all posters for your reviews, so I knew it was a good idea to watch as a distraction without turning into me wanting to throw things. :-)

I agree with the good / bad bits that most people have said.

I'm also amusing myself with mental images of Merlyn dealing with his 'minions' and them being the yellow ones.

Have a lovely weekend everyone, I'm not sure if i'll give this ep more thought than that, since the timeline is wrong for FS being the one in the grave.

[Starfish35]

I'm also amusing myself with mental images of Merlyn dealing with his 'minions' and them being the yellow ones.

Bless you for that mental image. :)

ETA: Lord Mesa never disappoints. :)

https://www.instagram.com/p/_H_xwxPH3L/?taken-by=lord_mesa

Edited December 11, 2015 by Starfish35

[bijoux]

I feel like we missed something key. Or I have missed it if anyone has commented on it upthread.

 

Source

 

 

Source

 

Felicity and Thea had contact this episode! There was also Felicity sort of pushing Thea along after she saw Malcolm in the Arrow suit but I couldn't find a gif of that. That shoulder poke is cute. So I'm choosing to believe that they talk regularly, just off screen, seeing as they prepared that tree lighting surprise together. Much as I choose to believe there was some making out in the limo before what we saw since Felicity's hair was smooth during the proposal but a little mussed in the limo. It didn't get that way from the short jog to the limo.

[looptab]

Laurel's "I helped too." line was bugging me. I knew that I wasn't a fan of the delivery. It was very light and teasing when in-show here is Oliver again not giving her credit (but willing to give it to Malcolm). I would have thought an eye-roll and snarking reply about her being there too would be more appropriate.

 

It was also a repeat of Felicity's line to him in 3x23. Which was weird. 

I wasn't a fan of the line either, but I didn't see it as another moment where Oliver doesn't give her credit. He was acknowledging Malcolm because Malcolm's help is an unexpected thing (after all, Malcolm didn't stop at saving Thea, he went ahead and faced DD). Laurel's help should be kind of a given, does she want a pat on the back or a high-five every time she doesn't screw up? LOL

[Delphi]

Let's be real. Malcolm went after Damien because Darhk had the nerve to try to kidnap and kill his daughter, there was nothing altruistic about it.

[looptab]

You and I know that, but Oliver is an idiot :)

Edited December 11, 2015 by looptab

[Tazmania]

While I do think they kept Laurel out of the party so that she wouldn't be kidnapped, if she were at the party, why would DD think she was important to Oliver? DD knows she's important to Quentin, sure, but he wasn't threatening Quentin's loved ones, he was threatening Oliver's.

In the public eye, Thea's his sister, Felicity's his girlfriend, Diggle's his bodyguard/head of security who's been glued to his side for 4 years now. Laurel's public connection to Oliver is she works for the DA, which explains why they run in the same circles now that he's running for Mayor. And that they dated some years ago, but that just means Laurel's part of around 67% of the 18-49 female demo of Star City.

So, while it IS super hilarious that all the recappers are all going "trolololol Laurel isn't a loved one bwahahaha", from DD's POV -- well, she isn't.

Oh I totally agree with everything you said, I just did not see the point in bringing it up that she was not a loved one. She hasn't been the loved one since S1 so that debate is kinda pointless. PS: Another thing that bugged me a lot was Laurel's presence at Oliver's various political public events. Can an ADA publicly endorse a mayoral candidate like this? Should an ADA publicly endorse a mayoral candidate like this?

[Primal Slayer]

She was joking, everything about it screamed playing around to me.

[bijoux]

Oh I totally agree with everything you said, I just did not see the point in bringing it up that she was not a loved one. She hasn't been the loved one since S1 so that debate is kinda pointless. PS: Another thing that bugged me a lot was Laurel's presence at Oliver's various political public events. Can an ADA publicly endorse a mayoral candidate like this? Should an ADA publicly endorse a mayoral candidate like this?

 

Maybe it doesn't make a difference since he's unopposed. And the city does need a mayor, so having a representative of the DA's office supporting restoring order in the city seems like a good idea.

?

[dtissagirl]

Let's be real. Malcolm went after Damien because Darhk had the nerve to try to kidnap and kill his daughter, there was nothing altruistic about it.

 

I'd say it was 60% saving Thea, 40% showing off the Green Arrow suit for cheap thrills.

Edited December 11, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Delphi]

I could buy that considering he came up with the Green Arrow moniker and no one has paid him his royalties.

[paigow]

And that they dated some years ago, but that just means Laurel's part of around 67% of the 18-49 female demo of Star City...

Moira probably paid off several Baby Mamas over the years....

[KenyaJ]

PS: Another thing that bugged me a lot was Laurel's presence at Oliver's various political public events. Can an ADA publicly endorse a mayoral candidate like this? Should an ADA publicly endorse a mayoral candidate like this?

 

Nope. It's not such a huge deal here, because Oliver is running unopposed and it could be seen as merely supporting the eventual new mayor in his policy goals. But generally, employees of the District Attorney's office, State's Attorney office, U.S. Attorney's office, etc. are supposed to remain politically neutral and not outwardly appear to support any candidate. I work for a federal judge and have to adhere to similar rules.

 

But in the real world, Palmer Tech could never bankroll Oliver's campaign, either, so I'm just handwaving everything related to the mayoral campaign.

Edited December 11, 2015 by KenyaJ

[Password]

I wonder what baby mama will think of hearing Oliver is engaged to Felicity. Obviously she'll feel relieved she told him he can't tell a soul because Darhk is wreaking havoc.

I wish for her to sit in a corner and think about what she's done.

[statsgirl]

Laurel's "I helped too." line was bugging me. I knew that I wasn't a fan of the delivery. It was very light and teasing when in-show here is Oliver again not giving her credit (but willing to give it to Malcolm). I would have thought an eye-roll and snarking reply about her being there too would be more appropriate.

I think it was totally intended as a fun "hey, me too" line but if I could have taken one line out of the episode, that would have been it because Oliver's line about owing Malcolm one now was very complex, dealing with things all the way back to Robert dying because Malcolm sunk the Queen's Gambit, Tommy's death, the Undertaking, Sara's death, and all the bargains with the devil Oliver made last season.  Laurel's line was out of a different universe.

 

I'd say it was 60% saving Thea, 40% showing off the Green Arrow suit for cheap thrills.

So much about wearing the suit and showing off.  He's Ra's al Ghul, he's been the Dark Archer and the Green Arrow, is there anyone else on his bucket list?

 

Moira probably paid off several Baby Mamas over the years....

Moira would have had them checked out first to make sure they weren't faking it for the money.  She had Samantha investigated and a whole file on her before they met.  No flies on her.

[Delphi]

So things I took notice of that I find interesting. Laurel's phone just said 'Star City DA' and I find it hilarious that they didn't give them a name.

Also, Thea told Malcolm that she was no longer feeling bloodlusty. So she's either a liar or last week when she tried to kill Vandal she absolutely gave zero fucks and is not bogged down by that pesky conscience that Oliver developed.

[bijoux]

Also, Thea told Malcolm that she was no longer feeling bloodlusty. So she's either a liar or last week when she tried to kill Vandal she absolutely gave zero fucks and is not bogged down by that pesky conscience that Oliver developed.

 

I don't think last week was bloodlust at all. She loses control when that hits her and she really didn't here. It simply read as Moira Queen's daughter dealing with shit expediently.

[Delphi]

I don't think last week was bloodlust at all. She loses control when that hits her and she really didn't here. It simply read as Moira Queen's daughter dealing with shit expediently.

That's what I assumed and that's why I love my little assassin trained cinnamon roll of death.

[blackwing]

I don't for a second believe that Felicity is dead.  Maybe the scene of him by the gravestone is his dream, or they pretend that she died to keep her out of the public eye (and she works as Oracle behind the scenes).

 

I loved Thea's "You do love your minions" line.

 

And I really really despise the "Canary Cry".  I guess in the comics I never thought about it.  But the depiction on live action TV, I really hate the way Katie Cassidy does it.  It's like: 1) Adopt a FIERCE, CONSTIPATED look.  2)  Open mouth as wide as you can.  3) Slowly shake head back and forth like you are a garden hose watering the flower beds.   In the comics, it's Black Canary's actual superpower, right?  Whereas here on the show, it's some kind of gadget that does it?   So why the need to have it come from her mouth?  Why not just give her a Canary Cry Gun, or make it come from her gloves?  It just looks really really really stupid to me.  In the comics, Damien Darhk's "powers" are actually supposedly just tricks of the mind and light, but here on the show he appears to be an actual telekinetic.  So if they are willing to change that, why not alter the Canary Cry so it's not so stupid looking.

[NumberCruncher]

And I really really despise the "Canary Cry".  I guess in the comics I never thought about it.  But the depiction on live action TV, I really hate the way Katie Cassidy does it.  It's like: 1) Adopt a FIERCE, CONSTIPATED look.  2)  Open mouth as wide as you can.  3) Slowly shake head back and forth like you are a garden hose watering the flower beds.   In the comics, it's Black Canary's actual superpower, right?  Whereas here on the show, it's some kind of gadget that does it?   So why the need to have it come from her mouth?  Why not just give her a Canary Cry Gun, or make it come from her gloves?  It just looks really really really stupid to me.  In the comics, Damien Darhk's "powers" are actually supposedly just tricks of the mind and light, but here on the show he appears to be an actual telekinetic.  So if they are willing to change that, why not alter the Canary Cry so it's not so stupid looking.

The ridiculousness of the Canary Cry was especially apparent in this episode, even as it served a very important purpose (for once) in saving Thea, Dig, and Felicity from the gas chamber. I can't help but wonder if the Canary Cry wouldn't be such fodder for ridicule with audiences and critics alike if they simply told KC to tone her acting down a bit with it because the wide-mouthed, head-shaking, full-bodied hurling thing looks so very OTT. Like you mentioned, it's not even coming from her own vocal cords so she doesn't NEED to scream in the first place. The gadget that Cisco built for her could simply have a button she could push as she "screams" and it would work just fine. It would be just as effective to have her stand perfectly still, open her mouth, push the activation button, and yell without looking like she's trying to clear a blockage in her colon. Most importantly, it would look far less ridiculous. The show really dropped the ball on this one in their attempt to mimic the comics.

[AudienceofOne]

In the comics, it's Black Canary's actual superpower, right?  Whereas here on the show, it's some kind of gadget that does it?   So why the need to have it come from her mouth?  Why not just give her a Canary Cry Gun, or make it come from her gloves?  It just looks really really really stupid to me.

 

 

Sara used a hand-held device and I thought that was infinitely superior to this. How does putting it on BC's throat make it *more* effective when Sara could slide it into the enemy's ranks?

[dtissagirl]

It totally happened: super boring stakeout, suddenly Laurel yawned, and boom: mission busted.

[NumberCruncher]

Sara used a hand-held device and I thought that was infinitely superior to this. How does putting it on BC's throat make it *more* effective when Sara could slide it into the enemy's ranks?

Well, they couldn't exactly copy the way Sara's device worked since there are already so many Sara/Laurel comparisons made because they were dumb enough to introduce two Canaries.

[Starfish35]

They could at least make it more powerful. Cisco was supposed to make it better, but it seems like this thing has maybe a quarter of the power of Sara's grenades. Those easily shattered glass and put people on the ground, Laurel's barely rocks the bad guys back on their heels.

In fairness, however, I think by putting it on her throat they made it a little too easy to use, so they had to depower it. If it worked like it was supposed to, she could just scream and end the fight. I still think they should have stuck with Sara's devices though.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Starfish35

[AudienceofOne]

If it worked like it was supposed to, she could just scream and end the fight.

 

 

Bursting her own ear drums in the process... although with this really annoying, stupid "magic is real" plotline, I guess the laws of physics no longer apply anywhere.

[SmallScreenDiva]

 3) Slowly shake head back and forth like you are a garden hose watering the flower beds.

 

This may be the most accurate description of what LL is doing with the CC that I've ever read. No, but seriously, why does she even have to do that? It seems from previous usage that it affects people in front just as well as the back. It's not like she's targeting sonic waves at the baddies. And using it in that tunnel when her friends were standing around her was probably the stupidest thing. She could have knocked them out along with the bad guys. But the scream that was strong enough to crack glass earlier suddenly became not strong enough for the volunteers (Ghosts?) below. This show needs a cheat sheet of power levels.

Edited December 11, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Delphi]

Honestly I'd think this show could afford to add some nice little cgi shock waves to make it appear as if the cry did target specific things. Then they should also do what the comics do, have Laurel only use it when absolutely necessary so you only need to see it every few episodes.

[Chaser]

I was okay with the scream to crack the glass, but the water hose movement was just creepy. The wide open mouth with the dark lipstick made her look possessed.

 

And the scream in the hallway was just stupid. It didn't do anything and the clutched fists with her posture made it look like she was throwing a temper tantrum.

[KenyaJ]

I think it was totally intended as a fun "hey, me too" line but if I could have taken one line out of the episode, that would have been it because Oliver's line about owing Malcolm one now was very complex, dealing with things all the way back to Robert dying because Malcolm sunk the Queen's Gambit, Tommy's death, the Undertaking, Sara's death, and all the bargains with the devil Oliver made last season.  Laurel's line was out of a different universe.

 

It know it was meant to be fun (much like the "You're so strong" line), and I took it as such, but I also wish the writers had scrapped it. It made me think of that Chris Rock routine where he jokes about how you "don't get a cookie" for doing stuff you're supposed to do. Laurel's been a member of the team for almost a year now. She's supposed to be helpful. Having her seek acknowledgement for it was almost like the writers saying to us, "Look, she was useful, for once! Aren't you happy now?" I actually was happy about it, and then they nearly ruined it with that line.

Edited December 11, 2015 by KenyaJ

[apinknightmare]

They just need to decide what that collar can do and stick with that. I thought Laurel was doing the sprinkler because the sounds only affected what was directly in front of her or something, but she did it in front of the chamber, and it only barely cracked one panel of glass. It seems to be good for the element of surprise and the capability to crack a minimal amount of glass. 

 

I can see how this thing is handy, because she can use it even if her hands are free. Sara's were way more effective though, both because they seemed way more powerful, and because she could've thrown them to get wherever they needed to go.

[Delphi]

They just need to decide what that collar can do and stick with that. I thought Laurel was doing the sprinkler because the sounds only affected what was directly in front of her or something, but she did it in front of the chamber, and it only barely cracked one panel of glass. It seems to be good for the element of surprise and the capability to crack a minimal amount of glass.

I can see how this thing is handy, because she can use it even if her hands are free. Sara's were way more effective though, both because they seemed way more powerful, and because she could've thrown them to get wherever they needed to go.

If I had to think about it I'd have to say that the glass in the facility was not your one of the mill type of window glass and was probably Hella reinforced because if it wasn't Oliver probably should have been able to break through it. The cry was more than capable of breaking the glass in the skylight last season.

[apinknightmare]

If I had to think about it I'd have to say that the glass in the facility was not your one of the mill type of window glass and was probably Hella reinforced because if it wasn't Oliver probably should have been able to break through it. The cry was more than capable of breaking the glass in the skylight last season.

 

Oh, it was definitely reinforced, but it only managed to crack the one window, not the other two that were a few inches away on either side. 

[wingster55]

Diggle's his bodyguard/head of security who's been glued to his side for 4 years now

 

And driver. 

But really...as far as the public knows Diggle's just that...sure there could be a presumed friendship...but why would anyone consider him a "loved one"? 

[dtissagirl]

Being best man at Diggle's wedding would do it.

[apinknightmare]

And driver. 

But really...as far as the public knows Diggle's just that...sure there could be a presumed friendship...but why would anyone consider him a "loved one"? 

 

 

Darhk had Laurel followed in order to threaten Quentin. You think he wouldn't have done some homework on someone like Oliver? Evidence that Digg and Oliver mean something to each other wouldn't exactly be difficult to find - Oliver was the best man at Digg's wedding, and there's photographic evidence of that. 

[dtissagirl]

Also, DD follows Thea on Instagram.

[apinknightmare]

Never mind.

Edited December 12, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Gizmo321]

The question I have.....isn't Malcom presumed dead by the public? Thea inherited his money as his only living realtive. And yet when Quentin sees Malcom....he doesn't seem shocked / surprised. Did I miss something or did I most likely forget something from a previous episode?

[Morrigan2575]

Also, DD follows Thea on Instagram.

But did he subscribe to the Team Arrow Facebook page that Felicity and Roy created?

[Chaser]

I can totally picture DD looking thru their IG and Facebook like "Youths!"