S05.E06: Wesen Nacht

[Darklazr]

Do not feed the pig.  There, I will not mention whatshername.

 

I watched the show and there was no need for "whatshername" when Diana could have filled the same role.

 

I would have beat Trubel's behind for bringing Chavez and her folks into my house, stealing my mother's head, taking my crossbow and "whatshername's" body.  

 

Nik now knows the HW folks are watching him and they know about his son and he just barely blinks?!  What the what?!

Edited December 12, 2015 by Darklazr

[GaT]

But all I could think of when she appeared was: Where have I seen that wig before? Arrow? Falling Skies? (both shows I stopped watching after appearances by The Wig)

It's the same wig the little girl wears in the Sia video "Chandelier"

http://img2.tvtome.com/i/u/90980a3bb3ec4e6bce817fa2c66e55aa.jpg

 

http://img2-1.timeinc.net/people/i/2015/news/150413/maddy-ziegler-800.jpg

[ShellsandCheese]

I think it was a mistake to bring Juliette back. She was primarily responsible for the death of Nick's mom, she tried to kill Monroe, she burned down the trailer of awesomeness, and she slept with Ken!

 

There is no way that she can be (or that she should be) integrated back into the main cast with everyone being okay with it, because she is sort of a good guy. It's like when Angel went bad on Buffy. The thing I liked was that he remained an outsider, untrustworthy, and really wasn't a member of the gang. And then he exited stage right for his own show; because he could never really be accepted again after what Angelus done. 

 

I don't see Juliette getting a spin-off, so I don't understand the point of bringing her back after everything that happened last year. I for one, will never be able to look at her again or accept that she is one of the gang again. Ugh. 

[Darklazr]

I think it was a mistake to bring Juliette back. She was primarily responsible for the death of Nick's mom, she tried to kill Monroe, she burned down the trailer of awesomeness, and she slept with Ken!

 

There is no way that she can be (or that she should be) integrated back into the main cast with everyone being okay with it, because she is sort of a good guy. It's like when Angel went bad on Buffy. The thing I liked was that he remained an outsider, untrustworthy, and really wasn't a member of the gang. And then he exited stage right for his own show; because he could never really be accepted again after what Angelus done. 

 

I don't see Juliette getting a spin-off, so I don't understand the point of bringing her back after everything that happened last year. I for one, will never be able to look at her again or accept that she is one of the gang again. Ugh. 

 

BT is dating DG, and is probably a nice person, but the show really should have kept whatshername dead, dead!    Besides, the actress was horrible in this role.  I would have rather seen an all grown up Diana.

[SimoneS]

Analind.  I'm not sure if that was a typo or not....but I like it!

 

I think it is because I am usually posting about "Annalise" on the How to Get Away with Murder forum. Ah, I miss that show.

 

On several threads, some people keep saying and implying that BT dating DG is why she is still on the show, but this ignores the reality that television shows rarely ever kill off characters, i.e. fire actors, for storyline purposes. Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead are the exceptions and only are because they are based on original material that guides the story and characters' directions. Also, the track record of these showrunners is that once they like an actor, they will change the story to keep them. They did with Renard and Adalind. So it was pretty obvious that Juliette was never going anywhere regardless of who BT is dating.

Edited December 12, 2015 by SimoneS

[ottilie]

"Will his aim be to "unmask" Renard, since their motto is to be hidden no more?"

  I totally like that idea and hope it happens. While Nick is highly skilled yet uninformed (always needing things explained), the Renard character is lazy. He seems to understand what is going on but tends to just telephone people to order them to do stuff. He rarely uses his magic skills or strengths and this could make him go into action.

 

"I would have rather seen an all grown up Diana."

  Well - there is a possibility that this character could be Diana herself, projecting herself in Juliette's image. We saw that Renard's mother could change her image, and that Diana could project her image in two locations simultaneously. Also, we know that Meisner has Diana in his custody, or at least did at one point? It would be weird, and it would be a fun acting challenge.

[formerlyfreedom]

Just a reminder that we do have a Juliette topic where you can talk in greater extent about the character, why you think it was a bad idea to bring her back or not, and more. While the return of BT is pertinent to this episode, we're walking a fine line between the episode and Juliette discussion in here.

 

Thank you!

 

@aquarian1 and

 

Also for enjoying;

 

[officetemp]

Wasn't at home last night, so I missed the original broadcast of the show.  Watched it a few minutes ago on the NBC Grimm website.  I think I missed a lot because the video was like a series of still photos in a slideshow with the show soundtrack played over it.  Difficult to watch.

 

Strange episode.  Teresa with her James Bond/Speed Racer Superbike.  She who must not be named showing up as Ms. Super Badass Kickass.

 

During the final fight scene when Nick & Company were barricaded behind the doors listening to the beatdown on the other side, all I could think of was the voice actors playing the scene in the voice-over recording booth ["Gah!"  "Oof!"  "Argh!!"  "Sock!"  "Pow!!"  "Thump!!"  "Gurgle, gurgle. . ."  ("Holy sound-effects, Batman!!")] and trying not to crack up as they were doing it.  How do all of these actors on this show maintain control while the show's more ludicrous scenes are being filmed?

 

Still want Adalind with Meisner.  Still want Nick to maintain his celibacy--or at least non-commitment to any individual female--for about the next couple of years.

 

Not enough Hank, Wu, Monroe, Rosalee, Bud.  Too much mystery with Teresa.  (Why do the characters always say, "I can't explain right now.  We'll talk later"????!)  Adalind, just get the hell out of Portland and forget that you ever knew any of these people!!  You'd be much better off.

 

[Moving a Juliette comment to her thread.]

 

Yeah, I'm just rambling and this post is just as incoherent as this show has become.  I'm just glad that Rosalee wasn't attacked when she was driving Xavier(?) home.  I thought for sure that they were being followed and were going to be wrecked by some of the bad guys.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2015 by officetemp

[formerlyfreedom]

I'm just glad that Rosalee wasn't attacked when she was driving Xavier(?) home.  I thought for sure that they were being followed and were going to be wrecked by some of the bad guys.

 

Yeah, I was on the edge of my seat once Rosalee split off from the group, I was so sure they were going to harm or kidnap her (AGAIN!), so it was a joy to see her take charge!

[Texasmom1970]

So glad all my guys were okay when they were all together at this warehouse I thought someone was gonna get it.

Man, Juliette is harder to get rid of than an STD!

[33kaitykaity]

Kind of like with Roy on Arrow, I was determined not to believe Juliette was really dead until I saw her body with the Y-shaped autopsy incision, so therefore not surprised at all by this "reveal."  Meh.  And another vote for Pretty Woman wants its wig back.  

 

I have lived in the Portland area for nearly 30 years, so I'll never be able to really quit this show.  It makes my home look so green and gloomy and gorgeous.  

 

ETA -- the law enforcement consultants really fell down on the job on this one.  Once Billie said the word "lawyer," the interview was over.  Full stop.  When someone is taken into custody, they have to be Mirandized and "having these rights in mind do you wish to speak to me?"  Once a suspect lawyers up, it's over.  They have to be re-Mirandized before the conversation can continue.  If they were in Grimm mode, that would be one thing, but Nick himself said they were still in judicial system mode.  Come on, Show.  At least try.  

Edited December 13, 2015 by 33kaitykaity

[Darklazr]

Just a reminder that we do have a Juliette topic where you can talk in greater extent about the character, why you think it was a bad idea to bring her back or not, and more. While the return of BT is pertinent to this episode, we're walking a fine line between the episode and Juliette discussion in here.

 

Thank you!

 

@aquarian1 and

 

Also for enjoying;

 

 

Lawd!  Where did you find this picture?!

[formerlyfreedom]

Lawd!  Where did you find this picture?!

 

Heh. Google "Grimm Renard Shirtless" and select the Images option.  Special treats found there!

[tpel]

OK, trying to get some of the timeline clear (I missed some episodes toward the end of last season, and probably repressed some stupidity ;-). Given what we've learned this week:

Reyes' group became interested in Trubel after she decapitated that FBI agent.

She accompanied Josh home, and around that time, she voluntarily-ish joined the group. This makes sense of the "six months" comment with regard to the motorcycle.

She "came back for" Juliette, at the behest of the group -- not necessarily to kill her, but to grab her for hexenrehab. At that time, she was forcibly removed from the scene by other operatives, either so she couldn't reveal anything to Nick, or just as a writing convenience, to make it seem like she was kidnapped

She spent some time in shipping containers, and seems like she is maybe not Meisner's biggest fan, but contrary to the hints the show was dropping, she was probably not the snarling beast he was fighting with behind locked doors -- that was probably Juliette.

Now she's back again, after probably a few weeks' absence, during which time Adalind's baby was born, Nick moved to the warehouse, etc.

We still don't know precisely how she came to be so beat-up, but presumably it was at the hands of the Wesen revolutionaries.

She hasn't actually lied to Nick and company, but she has withheld information. Reyes' group either convinced her or coerced her to do so.

 

Reyes' group seems not to trust Nick. Is this just the result of bad communication? I mean, yeah, Nick and Reyes got off to a bad start, but Reyes was in cahoots with with Meisner, and Nick is sort of allied with Renard, and it seems that Renard and Meisner are on good terms (despite the fact that, or perhaps because, Meisner killed both Renard's brother and father). You would think that amid all the cloak-and-dagger scheming, someone would say, "Hey, wait a minute, I know a guy . . ."

Edited December 13, 2015 by tpel

[OtterMommy]

She "came back for" Juliette, at the behest of the group -- not necessarily to kill her, but to grab her for hexenrehab. At that time, she was forcibly removed from the scene by other operatives, either so she couldn't reveal anything to Nick, or just as a writing convenience, to make it seem like she was kidnapped.

 

This is the only point I don't think is quite right.  Trubel didn't seem to know that Juliette was a hexenbiest until she was back in Portland.  It was that scene when she, Monroe, Rosalee, Bud, and Adalind are all hanging around Bud's table, after Kelly's head was found and Nick, Hank, and Wu were off doing police-like stuff (and by that I mean Hank and Wu made it possible for Nick to murder Kenneth--not that he didn't deserve it--without leaving a trace other than a body that could then be used to cover up Renard's Jack the Ripper crimes).  Anyway, in that scene, Trubel asks where Juliette is and Monroe, I think, has to tell Trubel that Juliette is a hexenbiest.  She seems genuinely surprised and since Jacqueline Toboni is not that great of an actress, I'd believe her.

 

My guess is that at some point after that, off screen, Trubel tells Chavez or whoever about Juliette and THEN they send her out to get Juliette.

 

But, other than that, you're probably spot on.

[thuganomics85]

Late for this one.  And sure enough, it's the only where Juliette makes her unsurprising return.  I could go on about how I wonder what their plan with the character is outside of just making her a villain, because she has done too much shit for me to ever buy her joining Team Grimm again (even ignoring how she set up Kelly, she killed the Grimmbago.  You can't come back from that!), but instead, I just want to marvel over how bad that wig was.  What where they going for there?  It was like bad mixture of Lady Gaga, a "femme fatale" look, and maybe an X-man?  Either way, that was just bad.  Like, real bad.  I've seen some bad wigs before, but between this and Lizzie's on The Blacklist, it's like NBC shows excel at the worst wigs possible.

 

At least Juliette's return my halt the idea of Nick having feelings for Adalind.  Because Adalind certainly seems to be heading that way, with her almost teen crush reaction to when Trubel asked if she "loved" Nick.  Ugh, kill that thing with fire.  Of course, if Nick does refuse her, she can always just rape him again, because it's not like that is really consider a bad thing on this show, apparently.

 

So, basically there is some kind of Wesen war going, with a group of extremists that seem to be taken out other Wesens for some reason.  And it seems like Monroe is a big target for some reason.  No!

 

Rosalee beating up Xavier was the best.  I hope the guys get in contact with her soon, because she is so the character who I could see going to the extreme if she thinks Monroe is dead.  They'll come back, only to find her stringing Xavier up and coming at him with a blowtorch and pliers.  Rosalee is not someone I would want to fuck around with!

 

Still have no idea what the point of Renard's story-line is, unless this politician is going to end up involved in the Wesen War.

 

Seeing both Hank and Wu fully prepared to shoot a bunch of Wesen reminded me for some reason over how far they come.  Just a few seasons ago, those two wouldn't know what the hell was going on, but now they're ride or die with Nick and Team Grimm.

 

Trubel is totally keeping a lot things from Nick, so I'm curious to see where all this is going.

 

Approaching the rest of the season cautiously.  I was prepared for Juliette's return, but I was hoping that maybe she would be a big baddie or something.  I really don't know if this show can ever make me thinks she's one of the good guys again.

[Dobian]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I get a kick out of Juliette returning, bad acting  and all.  Just as long as they keep it campy/fun/Hexen-Juliette.  I think there's a pattern here where Nick/Juliette were a total bore.  Now Nick/Adalind is a snooze.  The common denominator here is Nick.

 

And Rosalee is the best.

[skyscapes]

Hadrian's Wall. I guess the organisation see themselves as the Romans who built the wall and the Wesen as the savage Celts they wanted to keep out of their empire.   The analogy doesn't work for me since the Wesen are everywhere.

[SimoneS]

Still have no idea what the point of Renard's story-line is, unless this politician is going to end up involved in the Wesen War.

 

There is never any point to anything that Renard does. Of all my issues with this show, I find how they have wasted Sasha Roiz in that role the most offensive. He would have made an excellent villain, but the showrunners liked him so that they chucked Renard's villainy out of the window.

Edited December 13, 2015 by SimoneS

[OtterMommy]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I get a kick out of Juliette returning, bad acting  and all.  Just as long as they keep it campy/fun/Hexen-Juliette.  I think there's a pattern here where Nick/Juliette were a total bore.  Now Nick/Adalind is a snooze.  

 

Okay, time for me to reveal (once again) what a shallow person I am.  I admit that this twist would not be good for the show and it is problematic.  And it probably would NOT lead me to become an avid viewer again--but I'd totally tune in to see this.

 

Nick tells Adalind that it (whatever "it" is between them) is over because he just finds Juliette's hexen powers too much of a turn on and he HAS to be with her and he just can't with the 24 hour Adalind-protection duties anymore--thus leaving poor, powerless Adalind all alone in the dreary paint factory.

 

As I said, it SHOULD NOT happen--but if it did, I would definitely be there just to see the look on Adalind's face....

 

Yes, I hate the character THAT MUCH.

[TVSpectator]

Okay, time for me to reveal (once again) what a shallow person I am.  I admit that this twist would not be good for the show and it is problematic.  And it probably would NOT lead me to become an avid viewer again--but I'd totally tune in to see this.

 

Nick tells Adalind that it (whatever "it" is between them) is over because he just finds Juliette's hexen powers too much of a turn on and he HAS to be with her and he just can't with the 24 hour Adalind-protection duties anymore--thus leaving poor, powerless Adalind all alone in the dreary paint factory.

 

As I said, it SHOULD NOT happen--but if it did, I would definitely be there just to see the look on Adalind's face....

 

Yes, I hate the character THAT MUCH.

 

Personally, I hate Juliette more than Adalind, but I would love to see Nick tell both to just get away from him and/or out of confusing Nick just goes awol and leaves both of them all alone. Instead he goes on a journey to look for the Coins and more Keys and finishing what Kelly (his mother) was trying to do with them. 

[Darklazr]

Still have no idea what the point of Renard's story-line is, unless this politician is going to end up involved in the Wesen War.

 

My guess is Renard is being set up to take a hard fall by the folks that kidnapped Monroe last year, along with everyone else involved in that storyline.  Plus the wesen uprising would probably love to have Renard woge and end up on TV!

 

1) Monroe was slated to be killed on Friday.

2) Rosalie's old drug buddies sent her a letter.

3) Renard is being asked to help the Mayoral candidate get elected and his image was the last thing we saw before the lady took a header out the window in season 2.

 

I suspect Nik, Hank, Wu and Bud are next in line for the wesens to go after.

[ottilie]

by the way, the actress playing Billie Trump is great - and was on Orange is the New Black. She plays a certain type very well, and you can see she'll be around in a few episodes.

[ShadowFacts]

I thought she was laying with her head in a pool of blood?  Or was that someone else.  I think I might rewatch if I have spare time, because I want also to see if I can figure out what the hell Teresa was actually saying/not saying to Adalind.  Plus how can I resist the Juliette is alive reveal one more time?

[Prairiemakeup]

Juliette was definitely channeling Kaley Cuoco's Charmed character when she debuted. Blonde wig and tight clothes. Yish, I can't stand Juliette, no matter what colour her hair...

[OakGoblinFly]

Just when you think this show can't get any worse, they pull out an episode like this one.

 

Soooooooooooooooo bad on so many levels.  And to top off a bad episode Bitsie and all her blandness shows up in a horrible wig.  What was she supposed to be conveying at the end?  Confusion?  Glee?  Sadness? Arrogance?

 

What happened to the goodness that was season one? 

Gah, not Juliette! And she looks like Lady Gaga.

 

 

I'd rather have Lady GaGa than Bitsie.

[Margherita Erdman]

Trubel looked weird when Adalind mentioned Diana.

I thought it was just because Adalind was fretting that Diana was with the Royals and Trubel knows that Meisner got her away in the helicopter after she magicked the King out the door into the ocean.

So Trubel knows, but won't tell Adalind, that Diana is with whomever Meisner now represents — the Resistance? This shadowy new organization? Are they one and the same, do they represent the same or different interests? Will the show ever clear these things up for us? Probably not.

Interesting that Renard hasn't shared the news of Diana's escape from the Royals with Adalind, even after Meisner told him.

I do wish that Renard's awesome mom would return, since when last we saw her she vowed she wouldn't stop until she found her granddaughter, and she seems more focused, competent, and intelligent than Adalind. Or most others on this show.

I don't expect them to be able to predict that it would or would not air on a Hanukkah night, given the way networks jerk schedules around for sports or specials--But the episode title was completely unnecessary under any circumstances.ETA: Does anyone who knows more about the thought processes of the team in Portland know if "Wesen Nacht" was supposed to be just a variation on "Silent Nacht" (the song) and if the night time breaking of shop windows of a particular ethnic (or however you classify Wesen) group was written without knowledge of Crystal Nacht?

There's no way this wasn't an intentional gloss on Kristallnacht: brownshirts= blackshirts, targeted destruction of buildings and businesses by gangs of hate-fueled thugs, notably broken windows (in English Kristallnacht is often translated as "The Night of Broken Glass").

Possibly the writers/showrunners thought this was an ironic contrast to previous holiday episodes, as it was anything but a Silent Night... I am Jewish, have an interfaith family, and didn't find it offensive, per se, since it wasn't played for laughs or trivialized, but portrayed as a violent and thuggish organized hate crime, supposedly the vanguard of an even more sinister, widespread, well-organized movement — which is true to the historic parallel.

I have found that Grimm's allegorical aspects are usually on target, actually, and enjoy the way in which both Wesen-human and intra-Wesen stories will reflect and explore real-world dynamics of bigotry, privilege, cultural misunderstandings, inter-ethnic conflict, and oppression. The false note in this episode that did rankle somewhat for me, actually, was the newly introduced idea that all collective uprisings and riots throughout "human" history have in fact been instigated by Wesen and Wesen grievances. That doesn't jibe with the more interesting and subtle ways in which we have learned about Wesen subtext in various events in history up until now.

I always looked forward to the Christmas episodes, mostly due to Monroe, but I feel like in this season, Monroe, Hank and Wu are marginalized and they are three of the only reasons I wanted to still love the show.

Both of these things, x1000. The standalone holiday episodes are maybe my very favorite (and if the writers are feeling like the well of western European Christmas tradition has run dry of inspiration, which, what? but okay, why not revisit the Chanukah miracle story, or the creation and celebration of Kwanzaa, or the Eastern Orthodox traditions that continue through Epiphany — which they sort of did with the Greek American Wesen, but that was more about the species of Wesen than the folk traditions of the region, I think — or go completely outside western tradition and branch out to other cultures as they have done quite effectively in the past)?

I didn't read the episode synopsis and I don't follow spoiler or speculation threads, so I sat down with some hot chocolate, my husband, and the DVR remote on Friday (with our Chanukah candles still burning) after everyone else was in bed, looking forward to a jolly, jingly, tongue-in-cheek, Monroe-centric romp (to include of course of course a look at his & Rosalee's Fantasy-Perfect Vintage Christmas Decor that you know will have to go into semi-permanent storage as soon as they have a Blutbad-Fuchsbau toddler or two roaming loose in their house). What a buzzkill instead! to have proto-fascist Wesen hooligans enter the scene as yet another shadowy group in the incoherent struggle over unclear stakes with our heroes fighting fights in dimly lit container yards.

[What with this show's shipping container fetish, I'm surprised that Nick didn't build himself and Adalind one of those multistory, multi-room modular homes out of converted containers http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to/g172/shipping-container-homes-460309/ ]

And Hank & Wu, while they continue to be fabulous and whose actors make the very most out of the very little they are getting in their supporting roles recently, have anchored some of the very best episodes IMO, and they haven't had decent, center-stage storylines in for-EVUH!

Not that anyone asked, but I am glad of Juliette's return, though I hope she and Nick don't get back together, and I hope there is no love triangle, quadrangle, pentagram, or even dyad of any kind among any of the existing characters (well, maybe Adalind and Meisner — they really did burn it up chemistry-wise when they were on the lam together while Diana was on her way into the world). It would have been a waste of the setup that Juliette had unfathomable, bottomless ("lit'rally") Hexenbiest powers only to be taken out by a crossbow and disappear never to be seen again.

I do agree though that The Wig Police need to get on the case, stat (just be sure to take some powerful backup with you), and that EvilJuliette's sins should relegate her to permanent outsider status from the main group, even when she acts as their ally (as should Adalind's past sins, no matter she voluntarily gave up her Wesenality* and is playing the wounded bird in shapeless colorless mommy clothes right now).

* (1) probably I am only amusing myself as I am old and will be the only one who remembers Florence Henderson shilling for Wesson vegetable oil in commercials by singing the jingle "It's got Wessonality"

(2) does no one else find it bizarrely out of character for Adalind to be so beatifically content with her new human status, an undoing of the very long and gruesome (but effective & well-acted) arc in which she was willing to do ANYTHING, no matter how horrible, distasteful, or personally uncomfortable to recover her powers? We weren't given to believe that the hexensuppression cocktail that Rosalee prepared was also going to change her personality, so why would she be any more accepting of losing her powers this time?

edited to fix quote & tags

Edited December 15, 2015 by Margherita Erdman

[Prevailing Wind]

First of all, I, too remember Ms. Henderson warbling about Wessonality.

 

Secondly...oh, I need to take this to the spoiler thread.

[Darklazr]

Meisner told Renard he could NOT tell anyone about what happened with the now dead King or Diana and that he was never in Renard's office.  Renard wanted to see Diana and Meisner said he has no idea where the girl is once Viktor set the King up to be killed.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Darklazr

[jhlipton]

But they do get an extra point for keeping her name out of the opening credits - more than one show has ruined a "shocking" surprise that way.

 

Bitsie's name was in the credits,

 

Rosalee..seems so gentle and kind but is such a badass when she has to be. 

 

I was telling my wife, in the opening credits, Reynard, Monroe, Adalind, and I think one more, woge into scary faces, and then there's Rosalee with her Cute Li'l Fox face... and she's the one you want to cross the least.

[possibilities]

The thing I was most upset about in this episode was the assertion that wesen are responsible for most of the riots and general unrest in world history. Like we humans are the purest of the pure, right? The show was better when it was more even-handed about being wesen or human, and how it wasn't better or worse, just part of the natural order that there was more than one way to be, and individuals made choices how to behave. Now we have even some wesen saying most wesen are troublemakers and historical trouble is wesen, and I guess that makes the few exceptional wesen who "fight their nature and align with humans" as being "special"?

 

ETA: Rosalee doesn't even have to woge in order to be badass. She clocked Xavier in her "normal" visage!

Edited December 15, 2015 by possibilities

[jhlipton]

The thing I was most upset about in this episode was the assertion that wesen are responsible for most of the riots and general unrest in world history. 

 

It doesn't make sense that wesen were responsible for the Boston Tea Party (the Boston Massacre would make more sense) but the first season credits showed Hitler woging, so this is hardly a new assertion.

[sigmaforce86]

Bitsie's name was in the credits,

 

 

If she was in the opening credits I completely missed it. I saw her name pop up as one of the first ones in the ending credits so I figured they kept her out of the opening to keep the surprise.  

[ShadowFacts]

 

The thing I was most upset about in this episode was the assertion that wesen are responsible for most of the riots and general unrest in world history. Like we humans are the purest of the pure, right? The show was better when it was more even-handed about being wesen or human, and how it wasn't better or worse, just part of the natural order that there was more than one way to be, and individuals made choices how to behave. Now we have even some wesen saying most wesen are troublemakers and historical trouble is wesen, and I guess that makes the few exceptional wesen who "fight their nature and align with humans" as being "special"?

 

I mentioned this earlier, it bothered me as well.  And if true, why hasn't Monroe told this to Nick a long time ago?  They have sort of set Monroe up as special inasmuch as he is vegetarian and was friends with blutbads who were trying therapy to resist their tendencies.  But it goes too far when they are now trying to paint wesen with a broad brush as being the scum of the earth.  That left a bad taste.

[qtpye]

was telling my wife, in the opening credits, Reynard, Monroe, Adalind, and I think one more, woge into scary faces, and then there's Rosalee with her Cute Li'l Fox face... and she's the one you want to cross the least.

 

 

I always found Rosalee's woge to be almost Disney princess adorable.  However, as much as I love Renard, am I the only one to find his woge super lame?  The actor sells it, but it is basically a deep goofy scar.

 

I know Blutbad are super bad asses, but their woge was never that scary to me.  I do sympathize with the make up artist, as the werewolf, wolf person make up has been done to death and it is hard to do a fresh take on it.

 

However, hands down the most disturbing woge is Xavier.  I mean...what the hell was that thing?  Slug? Fish?

[Prevailing Wind]

Blobfish...

http://www.lbc.co.uk/blob-fish-restaurant-to-open-in-east-london-111763

[TVSpectator]

Blobfish...

http://www.lbc.co.uk/blob-fish-restaurant-to-open-in-east-london-111763

 

Oh, yeah that was Xavier's woge face alright. That being said I did like how Rosalee, Bud, and Monroe were (to paraphrased them) "yeah if you see his woge face you can't forget it, but you so want to" to Nick, Hank, and Wu back in the Spice Shop. Something little like that made the episode much better (at least for me) because it not only foreshadowed how ugly his woge face was, but it so reminded me of how fun Season 1 was. 

[Margherita Erdman]

POSSIBILITIES, ON 15 DEC 2015 - 01:17 AM, SAID:

The thing I was most upset about in this episode was the assertion that wesen are responsible for most of the riots and general unrest in world history.

It doesn't make sense that wesen were responsible for the Boston Tea Party (the Boston Massacre would make more sense) but the first season credits showed Hitler woging, so this is hardly a new assertion.

No, you're right, it's not new to introduce the idea that Wesen have participated in and influenced specific events and represented individuals in history in ways previously unknown to us (like Hitler being one of those badger-like whatchamahoozy things and possessing the Coins of Charismatic Megalomania, which gave him so much of his power). Nick discovered early on that there is an ancient history and culture of Wesen historical figures, traditions, and organizations that parallel and intersect with human culture and history. We've heard a lot about all of that, and I've enjoyed it a lot, as I said above.

But what possibilities, ShadowFacts, and I (and maybe some others I missed) find so objectionable here (and I do hope I'm not misrepresenting or overstating their views, just seems like we're all more or less reacting to the same troubling anomaly that popped up) is the claim Monroe makes in this episode, seemingly out of the blue, that all mass movements in all of history that have turned violent — the French factory labor union conflict and the New York Draft Riots are two examples I remember that Monroe mentioned besides the Boston Tea Party (which as you point out doesn't even fit because hello, not violent), but Monroe's new assertion covers so very many watershed events on every continent, in every era — events that transformed and inspired hearts and minds, not just governments and their policies. Here are some that come to mind which would have entirely different meaning and significance if they were driven by Wesen and hidden Wesen agendas unrelated to those we believed to be true at the time (examples are mostly modern just because those were easiest to think of quickly, and in no particular order):

• uprisings against the British Raj in India to demand a greater degree of self-governance if not a return to independence

• the many brutally squashed attempt at democratic reforms throughout Europe in the 1800s

• the American Revolution (which started as isolated cells of armed protest)

• the Bolshevik Revolution

• Freedom Riders & Freedom Summer

• the Watts riots

• Tiananmen Square

• years upon years of anti-apartheid activism in South Africa and its pitiless repression

• the butchery in Rwanda, Bosnia, Sudan

... even The Rolling Stones at Altamont. [OK, I'll concede the Rolling Stones at Altamont might be a good candidate for Wesen instigation. Hells Angels as rocker ride or die biker Wesen, that would be totally in sync with the Grimm universe.]

Next, will the show assert that racist violence has never existed as a human phenomenon but has always been the work of Wesen? The long history of lynchings and the traditions of the Ku Klux Klan, all Wesen deliberately fomenting deep divisions within human communities? Because that's just one of the logical emanations from this generalized "violent grassroots action should always be blamed on Wesen" thing. It is disturbing and offensive, IMO, dismissive of the significance and complex historicity of these events, demonizing Wesen as a whole, and discounting the agency and responsibility of humans for their own worst collective tendencies and actions.

OK, I grant you,

[shapeshifter]

The false note in this episode that did rankle somewhat for me, actually, was the newly introduced idea that all collective uprisings and riots throughout "human" history have in fact been instigated by Wesen and Wesen grievances.

I think I visibly shuddered. Don't forget Pol Pot

 

probably I am only amusing myself as I am old and will be the only one who remembers Florence Henderson shilling for Wesson vegetable oil in commercials by singing the jingle "It's got Wessonality"

I'm older than dirt and most of you, but didn't watch TV between 1968 and 1997, and Google tells me that commercial is from 1984

Until now I had no idea that is where that old thread title came from.

Edited December 16, 2015 by shapeshifter

[jhlipton]

OK, I grant you, as I skim back & proofread this I can see that it seems a little bit like the ranty pedantry of someone with a background in social justice organizing and who maybe takes the show too seriously.

As someone who takes social justice seriously, I understand where you're coming from. There is a huge (pardon me, yuuge) difference between "a few isolated incidents were caused by wesen" and "all of history as you know it was caused by wesen". (I was one of those not happy with the "Hitler was a wesen" to begin with. Now, Donald Trump ... his being wesen would explain SOOOOOOOOOOO much!

 

The Rolling Stones at Altamont. [OK, I'll concede the Rolling Stones at Altamont might be a good candidate for Wesen instigation. Hells Angels as rocker ride or die biker Wesen, that would be totally in sync with the Grimm universe.]

This would turn one of the worst decisions of all time ("Sure, we'll invite this violent bunch of drunk cyclists to be security at a peace-and-love concert! What could possibly go wrong???") into a bit of inspired awesomeness.  

[ShadowFacts]

As someone who takes social justice seriously, I understand where you're coming from. There is a huge (pardon me, yuuge) difference between "a few isolated incidents were caused by wesen" and "all of history as you know it was caused by wesen". (I was one of those not happy with the "Hitler was a wesen" to begin with. Now, Donald Trump ... his being wesen would explain SOOOOOOOOOOO much!

 

This would turn one of the worst decisions of all time ("Sure, we'll invite this violent bunch of drunk cyclists to be security at a peace-and-love concert! What could possibly go wrong???") into a bit of inspired awesomeness.  

 

Thanks for a much-needed big laugh!

[shapeshifter]

As someone who takes social justice seriously, I understand where you're coming from. There is a huge (pardon me, yuuge) difference between "a few isolated incidents were caused by wesen" and "all of history as you know it was caused by wesen". (I was one of those not happy with the "Hitler was a wesen" to begin with. Now, Donald Trump ... his being wesen would explain SOOOOOOOOOOO much!

 

This would turn one of the worst decisions of all time ("Sure, we'll invite this violent bunch of drunk cyclists to be security at a peace-and-love concert! What could possibly go wrong???") into a bit of inspired awesomeness.  

If anyone finds some fan art of Wesen Trumposaurus, please post!

[jhlipton]

If anyone finds some fan art of Wesen Trumposaurus, please post!

 

The hair-piece is the sentient portion!

[qtpye]

We will find out that the hairpiece is an ancient form of Wesen that attaches itself to the host's head and then slowly takes over.  That what has caused all the human problems in history, bad wigs.

[jhlipton]

Good one, qtpye!

[theatremouse]

I won't go so far to say I was offended by the title and corresponding events, but I do find it in extremely poor taste. Extremely. And thought so pretty much as soon as I found out what the title was. Before I even saw the episode, I suspected what they were going for and thought it was a misstep, a misstep on a different level than the many many many writing missteps this show's had.

In other news, the only thing I found surprising about Return of Juliette was that she's apparently a Super Saiyan now. (I don't think the bad wig was supposed to be a "disguise".)

[Humbugged]

Hadrian's Wall. I guess the organisation see themselves as the Romans who built the wall and the Wesen as the savage Celts they wanted to keep out of their empire.   The analogy doesn't work for me since the Wesen are everywhere.

There was a second wall right across Central Scotland( the Caledonian Forest at that time covered nearly everything north of that).I'm Scottish and grew up not far from where the great ditch for it still partly runs and weirdly it's nickname is The Grim's Dyke .What would end up being Clan Graham lands are at the eastern end of the Dyke ,and the word  grim and Graham both come from the word graeme which is a name for the Devil .The wall also gets called the Devil's Dyke.

 

The same 2 Emperors who built the walls (Hadrian and Antonine) also built The Limes in Germany that blocked the Black Forest off from the Empire south of it .That also gets called Teufelsmauer ( The Devil's Wall)

 

So it might be a bit of world building after all

[Prevailing Wind]

I'm not saying anything about the Trumpenteufel's Wall.

[shapeshifter]

the word  grim and Graham both come from the word graeme which is a name for the Devil .

Suddenly "graham crackers" don't sound so wholesome--and suddenly I've got a hankering for them. Heh.

Prevailing Wind, you mean the one envisioned by Bush The Younger between Old Mexico and New Mexico and between California and Baja California? Where's Reagan when you need him to say "tear down this wall!"?

[Prevailing Wind]

Yup. THAT wall.