S05.E08: The Ten Commandments Killer

[Chaos Theory]

Yeah I thought the whole episode was boring, as John Lowe is easily the least interesting character in the entire season. Now that they revealed the identity of the killer, what are they going to focus on the rest of the episodes? Hopefully not Lady Gaga. So glad we didn't get to see her much this episode. Evan Peters and Denis O'Hare are killing it with their acting and hopefully they both get Emmys for this season. Matt Bomer is so retry but he is morning of an actor is he? He had like 2 lines this episode and I think he was basically hired to look pretty and stay in the background for this season. So is Cheyenne Jackson.

I like John and Sally. The Scenes between the two were electric especially when she hugged him and said "it was you. It was always you".

Honestly the least interesting character for me is Romana. I love Angela Bassett but the scenes with her character do nothing for me. At least Jihn is interesting in his downward spiral. I love me a good downward spiral.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[fuzzysneakers]

Is there another Hannibal watcher here?

 

My God, seriously. Hannibal was to this "art" as the Sistine Chapel is to the turkey-from-a-handprint your five year old brought home from kIndergarten.

 

 

Oh, Captanne and Snookums...I miss Hannibal so much.

Edited December 4, 2015 by fuzzysneakers

[JenE4]

As everyone said--and I think this can officially be decreed as a fact rather than an opinion--Evan was just marvelous as March! I was so hoping the recap was going to have a gif of his sitting at the table, staring at John across the table with his wordless gesturing to Ms. Evers to hurry up and pour the wine already (hand limply held out and quickly turning in a circle) and then okay, that's enough, get the hell out of here (hand quickly shooing her away) all while never taking his eyes off John. I love everything about Evan's acting in this role, but that one moment was probably my favorite thing ever in any season of this show.

John, meanwhile, while clearly a giant depressive blob of psych eval badness, certainly never manifested the kind of rage (despite March's insistence otherwise) that could lead to suddenly becoming a serial killer in his late thirties/early forties with absolutely no flags or precondtions. The scene he came from, the dad killing himself when he found his family accidentally asphyxiated? That was horrible and sad, but it made him want to get stinking drunk and sit around crying, not run out to slaughter with no selectivity. NONE of this stuff lined up, chronologically or otherwise, and having Mare Winningham/Kathy Bates on for thirty seconds each to act rings around everybody wasn't enough to save it.

I am in total agreement with your first two paragraphs--well said! This one, however, I disagree. John certainly wouldn't have and didn't slaughter anyone that night. Even kidnapping his child, he managed to hold onto his hope for 5 more years. I think the show did a good job explaining that it took 5 years of not only seeing the lack of justice in the world but very frequent meetings with March that had March brainwashing John about how he's the only one who could bring justice to the world. It took 5 long years to break him.

[RedheadZombie]

Well, I finally watched it.  I was a little irritated that they were going the obvious route with John, but I watched.  I ended up with more questions.

 

So John was already showing strain before Holden's abduction.  It seems that his job was that damaging to him.  And how odd was it that Donovan was lurking, and decided within two seconds that he was going to try to get John to March's suite.  Why?  It didn't seem like he was acting on the Countesses' behalf.  Am I supposed to believe that Donovan was so clever that he knew - instantaneously - that John would distract March from Gaga.

 

And speaking of Gaga, this was (by far) her worst performance, IMO.  I also thought she looked ill.  Her outfit was atrocious.  Interesting that she was so openly hostile with March - she doesn't seem to act that way now. 

 

I know Alex has no fans here, but it would seem that she put up with this shit for five years.  He showed up after disappearing for days, and she still told him she loved him.  I now believe her that John's not an alcoholic (although I don't understand she knows).  It would seem his lost time is when he's disassociating and using absinthe.  And although I don't think it's John's fault that Holden was taken, March did have him taken to get at John.  Wait until Alex finds out.  I'm thinking Alex wasn't so bad when she set up John and helped check him into the psychiatric hospital.

 

I did not find Evers' comment about foie gras amusing, but there's obviously millions who find that cruelty delicious.

 

When does John cut off his own penis (adultery) and when does he slaughter March (murder)?  I don't understand the selective outrage at the broken commandments.

 

I hate Gaga more than ever.   I can no longer find March funny.  Please have them die (for good) in the most painful manner.

 

It was nice to hear confirmation that March speaks in an affected manner influenced by old movies.

 

Aren't there enough real pedophiles out there that March doesn't have to set up innocent people?

 

I hate than John killed his friend.

 

Iris remains the most sympathetic member of the Countess mafia.  Poor little Wren.

 

 

[Captanne]

[i freely admit I "squee-ed" when he mentioned Exeter -- where he got his accent. The Captanne side (both my mother's and father's families) are both Exeter and Princetonians.  Always nice to he-yah the de-yah old Alma Maters mentioned.]

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Or Sally's "Let's take 10 minutes to list the Ten Commandments on each of these jars and explain why the people were killed, because they broke these commandments..." Uh, Duh. We know what they mean.

Not necessarily. That part of the Bible is subject to interpretation, so what your religion says may not agree with the show. For example, gossip may or may not qualify as bearing false witness (they should have gone with perjury or filing a false police report). On a more basic level, there are two different lists of Ten Commandments because not everyone agrees on how to assign numbers to the clauses in that section (i.e. you're grouping two different pairs of related offenses in each to turn 11 potential items into the stated 10).

[grumpypanda]

Add me to the camp that found this episode boring. When Sally finally told John that he was the killer Mr. grumpypanda and I both shouted out “no shit!"

Anyway, I also thought of Seven and assumed that John had Hahn's head in that paper bag and was going to have it delivered to Alex.

[Starchild]

Yeah, I'm pretty much on board with you on these points. I enjoyed the episode because I loved Evan Peters (who I have not been as enamored with this season as some have) - he was actually pretty great in this episode.

 

I was disappointed that John turned out to be the killer and, yeah - the whole "March's masterpiece" thing - why are those murders any more special to him than any of the others? He is just digging on doing a theme because he never did it before? Doesn't really make sense.

 

I usually watch this show when I'm walking/running on my treadmill so sometimes I mishear dialogue: I thought Miss Evers called the Countess "sparkle tits" instead of talking about laundering the "sparkly bits" of her outfit. I found the mishearing funnier. Also - what part did he cut off Hahn? I think I know, but I wasn't sure.

John cut off Hahn's "sparkly bit."

[LittleIggy]

If Evan Peters weren't doing that ridiculous accent, I might be able to stand March being onscreen.

[darkestboy]

Great episode but John as the killer was a bit too predictable.

 

I did like the flashbacks and connections he formed with the Cortez, March and Sally though. Sally came across better in this episode too for the first time. Not sympathetic, just more interesting though.

 

March and his scenes with John were brilliant as was that awkward dinner with the Countess in flashbacks.

 

There was some nice moments for Iris and Liz in this episode but Will, Ramona, Rudolph, Natacha we need updating on though.

 

Hahn's death might have had more impact if we hadn't known him better, 8/10

[bblancobrnx]

Loved this episode and loving this season. By far my favorite season so far. Went back and watched all of the episodes again last night and this morning and I think this episode was a necessity regardless if we had figured out John was the killer. Y the point is that now we know that HE KNOWS that he is. I love Evan's whole style of playing March. Absolutely brilliant. I even am totally thrilled with how well Lady Gaga has done as the countess. All in all, I have no complaints. I watch this show to enjoy myself and try not too take it too seriously or pick it apart. It has offered a great story in my opinion so far

This is LITERALLY the first season I have not given up on by this point. Granted, I recently re watched Freak Show in its entirety, and am currently doing the same with Coven. I plan to also.go back and watch the first two. (I hadn't ever seen Murder House when it originally aired)

Edited December 5, 2015 by bblancobrnx

[Captanne]

One little bit of note:  I find it utterly fascinating that Sally is always crying.  She always has tears on her face.  

Edited December 5, 2015 by Captanne

[bblancobrnx]

One little bit of note: I find it endlessly fascinating that Sally is always crying. She always has tears on her face.

I think it is supposed to show how tortured she is

[Captanne]

Sure!  And depressed.  And tragic.  And endlessly hopeless.  

 

I love that touch.  Love it.

 

​ETA:  Early on, I complained that she was a retread of Pris from Bladerunner (Daryll Hannah).  But Pris didn't have the tear -- and rightly so.  Pris wasn't tragic in her own mind.  She was from an objective standpoint, but she didn't see herself as tragic.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Captanne

[bblancobrnx]

Yes, Sarah Paulson is wonderful. She pulls it off beautifully

[basil]

Hahn's death might have had more impact if we hadn't known him better, 8/10

 

 

Do you mean if we had known him better? I felt like we'd only met him briefly a couple times. What annoyed me about his death was how stupid he'd been about it. Your partner is point blank telling you he is an insane murderer, and you make no attempt at all to protect yourself?

[WearyTraveler]

Two things I really liked about this episode were the little connections to the Murder House from Season 1:

 

• The Countess goes to get an abortion there and we see the doctor who was responsible for all those jars in the basement
• The morally ambiguous real estate agent that sold the Murder House gets murdered at the Cortez

[Snookums]

What annoyed me about his death was how stupid he'd been about it. Your partner is point blank telling you he is an insane murderer, and you make no attempt at all to protect yourself?

 

 

"Insane murderer, you say? Let me stand closer to these dissecting knives while you tell me about it. I'll dish about everything you reveal over coffee with your vulnerable wife later. You know, the one you don't really deserve? The one I have feelings for? Yeah, her. Okay, shoot."

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

What Happens When American Horror Story: Hotel Focuses On John Lowe, By Far Its Crappiest Character?
It makes Evan Peters work twice as hard. Fortunately, he's up for it.

[bblancobrnx]

Yeah they really botched it having him move that Styrofoam armoire like it was nothing. Luckily those kind of things don't bother me...I don't take it too seriously. ..but i know it really does bother a lot of people. They definitely could have done better there

Edited December 6, 2015 by bblancobrnx

[Madding crowd]

Like everyone else, I was expecting John to be the killer, but it kind of ruins the story for me. I really need one real person who isn't a vampire or a ghost, to have the story unfold around. I didn't really understand exactly how he became a killer unless he was already crazy. And surely, someone in his family or among his friends would intervene if he routinely disappeared for days at a time. It must have been the absinthe ! My husband is a long time cop and so far he hasn't become a killer (yet). And I agree with whoever said it doesn't seem like March would have that much interest in setting up the Ten Commandments versus just killing everyone. 

 

So does the Countess have some kind of power over everyone but March? Another question I had: was the guy with the boy in the hotel really a pedophile or was he set up? I didn't think the show made it clear. 

[queenanne]

Like everyone else, I was expecting John to be the killer, but it kind of ruins the story for me. I really need one real person who isn't a vampire or a ghost, to have the story unfold around. I didn't really understand exactly how he became a killer unless he was already crazy. And surely, someone in his family or among his friends would intervene if he routinely disappeared for days at a time. It must have been the absinthe ! My husband is a long time cop and so far he hasn't become a killer (yet). And I agree with whoever said it doesn't seem like March would have that much interest in setting up the Ten Commandments versus just killing everyone.

So does the Countess have some kind of power over everyone but March? Another question I had: was the guy with the boy in the hotel really a pedophile or was he set up? I didn't think the show made it clear.

Yeah, I'm kinda with you on this point but I don't think this is the first time in pop culture that they've expected us to believe that formerly non-violent, non-pathological adults, just "snap and go full on rogue mass murderer". You have to have demonstrated some sort of prior stomach for the task, but clearly this is a big fiction. Edited December 6, 2015 by queenanne

[Pixel]

Liz is a real person. Not a vampire or a ghost.

[Madding crowd]

Yes, I forget Liz is a real person, although the odd journeys through time the show goes through makes me wonder if she is real. I wouldn't be surprised to see a storyline which explains that Liz is also dead. Liz seems to condone some pretty awful stuff and I also wonder how much enjoyment she gets out of life since she mostly sees murderers or victims. The out of nowhere Tristan romance was very short lived and not likely to be repeated so why stay in the Cortez?

 

I also agree that people do snap and kill their loved ones or someone who hurts them in some way, but nailing a tongue to the table and keeping organs in jars is Jeffrey Dahmer level crazy and that doesn't come out of nowhere. I usually find with these kind of shows that I can believe and accept some things (vampires, ghosts, drildos, huge hotels that operate with almost no guests), but other things like a cop who appeared to be a loving husband and father turning on a dime into a depraved psycho is just harder to believe. My husband has been in law enforcement for many years and we have many detective friends; almost everyone who has murdered multiple people has an extensive history of animal abuse, charges of battery in their past, arrest records and numerous people who 'know' the person is nuts. The ones who don't have this have severe mental illness usually combined with drug and alcohol abuse.

 

For me, the story would be more interesting if John were  a straight cop working together with the various entities in the hotel to bring down the Countess. I would enjoy seeing him and Scarlett have a happy ending. Now she will need to die or become a vampire. I still like the show though and will continue to watch.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Madding crowd

[Bruinsfan]

It wasn't clear, I would have said "no" right up until Hagh said "You didn't deserve Alex" just before the fatal blow makes me wonder. 

It did more than make me wonder. If a co-worker guts me like a catfish, my last words probably aren't going to be how they don't deserve their totally awesome toddler-obsessed spouse.

 

Aren't there enough real pedophiles out there that March doesn't have to set up innocent people?

Have to? My impression is he'd be happy to set someone up to be killed for shits and giggles.

 

Another question I had: was the guy with the boy in the hotel really a pedophile or was he set up? I didn't think the show made it clear. 

If that boy actually did check into the hotel with him, I think he was. But we only have March's word for it that they came in together, he could have taken those incriminating pictures of some utterly unrelated guest's kid.

[Bizabra]

"Yeah they really botched it having him move that Styrofoam armoire like it was nothing. Luckily those kind of things don't bother me...I don't take it too seriously. ..but i know it really does bother a lot of people. They definitely could have done better there
 

My aunt had a huge armoire similar in size to this one.  It had castors on the feet that could be locked. Made is sooooo much easier to move and handle. Big pieces of modern furniture like that are often equipped with castors. Older antiques, not so much.

[Fable]

No? Yes? Hell, who knows anymore. I don't get how John's psychotic break/alcoholic blackout/schizophrenia is totally at March's beck and call. Sally told him why he couldn't remember anything outside the Cortez; okay, that makes as much sense as anything else on this morass of a show. But why couldn't he remember knowing March for five years when he checked in in 2015??? Like, when he was (re) hooking up with Sally the Pit of Bottomless Need who apparently was fine with him not remembering who she is, or during the Serial Killer Dinner Party, where March, who at that point had been mentoring him since 2010, was treating the situation like it was the first time they'd met? Why? What the hell?

 

I couldn't reconcile this either, and I thought the episode was a bit sloppy.  We know that John has been visiting the hotel for some 5 years, and always seems to be aware of himself while there, and yet when he comes in at the beginning of this season in 2015, he seems to have lost all memories of those earlier visits…and why now in the current day outside the hotel are all of his memories are coming back?   I thought that episode was interesting, but I didn't find it coherent.

[angeemanangee]

I agree that Lowe's memory loss was a convenient trope, but as far as him snapping I thought they covered it in that he was made to think that the paedo stole his child and wasn't that his first kill? This also explains him staying out drinking - dealing with grief and loss

Was good to see an episode that doesn't consist of Lady Gaga just being naked and having sex and also showed Even Peters as a diverse actor IMO, rather than the emo teen he has portrayed in other seasons. As a British person I thought he was talking about Exeter in England when he referred to that, but perhaps I am wrong! Agree that Sally reminds me of Bladerunner, but I think it's the crimped hair

My predictions - Liz is drilldo and the last 2 commandments are Gaga and March, even though he is technically dead. The ones left are not killing and having no other gods right? I think Lowe might inheret the hotel

Edited December 9, 2015 by angeemanangee

[DollEyes]

  Despite the predictable outcome of John being the 10K Killer after all, I thought this was one of the better episodes of the season, mostly because of Even Peters & Wes Bentley. March not only proved himself to be an expert serial killer, his manipulation of John, with & without the Countess; help, proves that he's an emotional vampire of sorts. March's & the Countess' willingness to use little Holden as a weapon against John was not only infuriating, it makes me wish that they're John's last two victims.

 

 

I'm thinking Alex wasn't so bad when she set up John and helped him check into the psychiatric hospital.

 

  Her causing a city-wide epidemic that infected/turned numerous children and has gotten untold numbers of adults killed proves otherwise. John's batshit crazy, but Alex isn't sane by a long shot.

[snowblossom2]

Just now catching up. I like that John as the killer was predictable. RM telegraphed it and I appreciate it. To me, that's better than having an unexpected, out of no where person as a killer. Why is telegraphing the story a bad thing? It's the journey or story that's important, this isn't a whodoneit

[Bruinsfan]

If Lowe had been even slightly interesting before the reveal it would have played a lot better.

[Peanut6711]

Initially I found the March character too over the top. A blatant, flamboyant killer, he murders indiscriminately, frequently, so many people in his path. Add to that the fact that he was a millionaire/billionaire—decidedly a higher profile citizen and it’s hard to believe he wasn’t caught sooner. Heck he seems to only have been caught because his wife turned him in. But then Evan’s acting infusing so much humor into him as won me over, very specifically in the scenes with Miss Evers and the Countess’s required monthly dinners. I’ve had some laugh out loud moments.  But I completely agree that more backstory on what made March the way is his is needed. At this point I’ll even accept a humorous, throw-away line regarding one of his parents forcing him to Sunday school as a child for the 10 Commandments killing spree that he started, but something should be provided to explain why a moral lacking psychopath like March would pick that as a theme and then be so excited to have someone else finish it for him.