MSNBC: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (Vaulted)

[pennben]

2 hours ago, Padma said:

I'm glad Lauer's getting so criticized today.  But Johnson's gaffe seems to have distracted the easily distractable media from Trump.

Exactly.  SQUIRREL!!!  Press scampers off, comes back later, becomes transfixed yet again....'who is this marvelously orange Oompa Loompah?'...until the next SQUIRREL!!

Edited September 8, 2016 by pennben
bad link

[car54]

Good god, change the name of the show from Hardball to Old Coots Ranting.   What the heck was that with Matthews and Guiliani?

[represent]

I would love it if Giuliani was caught trying to break into Gracie Mansion(residence of NYC mayors), then carted off to a mental institution where he belongs.

Edited September 8, 2016 by represent

[NextIteration]

6 hours ago, pennben said:

Not Trump, one of his advisors, former General Mike Flynn.  From NBC News:

We should not know that this happened, it's further evidence that tRump is a loose lipped cannon as are those around him.

Nosferatu just went flying off the rails and lost his mind on Hardball all lick spittled and ranting about Hillary's health THE EMAILS and and on and, he called Trump Reagan and referred to the notes that were dropped the Friday before Labor Day as Memorial Day weekend.  He's lost his mind, I know that was evident in his hateful RNC speech, but this was a proving follow up performance.

[car54]

Rudy is never going to get over that Hillary got "his" Senate seat.

[nowandlater]

I avoided the forum because I couldn't deal with watching Trump in that situation.

But I do regularly visit MSNBC's Youtube page, and I'm shocked that nobody's discussed his physical appearance. Seriously, does he have a health problem?

https://www.youtube.com/user/msnbcleanforward/videos

[cattykit]

Why have Matthews and Rachel and Lawrence been preempted every time Drumpf speaks in prime time, but now HRC is speaking in the evening and all we get is a little bug in the corner? 

[oakville]

9 hours ago, bad things are bad said:

Pretty low bar. 

How about "Lauerbar?".

 

I wonder why MSNBC would risk its credibility by having Lauer moderate this forum? Todd,Rachel, Guthrie would do a much better job.

Was Lauer upset that Lestor Holt will moderate the first debate?

[Padma]

I enjoyed Lawrence's take down of Trump re: last night's forum and he had some very good guests on the subject.  But I didn't enjoy his relentless efforts to prop up Lauer.  The brown-nosing was so intense!  "If I'd been there I wouldn't have thought of the great list of examples that Matt hit him with...."  "Matt Lauer, in a masterful interview where Trump never even realized what hit him..."  "Matt Lauer did something no one else did last night. He got Donald Trump to...."

Paraphrased, but not much. No one on MSNBC is allowing any criticism of Lauer but maybe LOD was chosen as the point person to defend him (with excessive praise).

Oh, and I tried again, and failed again, with 11th Hour.  This time it was Halperin saying that Hillary's "problem" is her style and that if she doesn't want to lose the election, at the debate, she's going to have to be, "calm and pleasant and incredibly gracious." 

Well, I guess so! After all, we know how Trump is always calm and pleasant and incredibly gracious. That's his brand, right? He'd lose the election without it!

[pennben]

19 minutes ago, Padma said:

  This time it was Halperin saying that Hillary's "problem" is her style and that if she doesn't want to lose the election, at the debate, she's going to have to be, "calm and pleasant and incredibly gracious."

So, the lady should just smile more and be pleasing to the male gaze. 

I just don't have the strength anymore.......

[Medicine Crow]

I'm done with LOD!!!

[alias1]

While Lauer's handling of the candidates, in general, was very poor, I agree with Lawrence that in that one instance where Lauer read  back to Trump all the atrocities of Putin, I applauded.  This was a followup to the Putin praising, and Trump hung himself by totally glossing over Putin's record and just focused on the fact that he thought Putin once called him brilliant.  (And, apparently that isn't even true as Rachel showed, Putin actually just called him sort of a shiny thing.)  Trump had no grasp of the seriousness of Putin being an enemy of the U.S. even when Lauer read him all those reasons why he's a bad guy.

[maraleia]

How many people thought that even the chairs they chose for last night's forum were sexist? They didn't need to be that high off the ground because they were already on a riser to be higher than the audience and I think that's one of the reasons why Hillary stood up to answer the questions.

15 minutes ago, Medicine Crow said:

I'm done with LOD!!!

What happened tonight to warrant this statement? I stayed away from TV news today.

[alias1]

And on the shallow end, I agree with nowandlater that Trump looked terrible last night.  His eyes were all red and his face puffy.  Hillary stood up and faced the people who questioned her, even that first guy who obviously had it in for her.  Reince Priebus should worry about how his own candidate looks.  It just shows how sexist these guys are.  They just want their women to smile and be pleasant.  They never say that about a man, do they?

23 minutes ago, Medicine Crow said:

I'm done with LOD!!!

I thought Lawrence was just fine.  I'm surprised at the strong reaction.

[cattykit]

23 minutes ago, Medicine Crow said:

I'm done with LOD!!!

I'm not done with LOD, but, for the reasons Padma stated, I was very disappointed with tonight's show.  Also, I get that LOD loathes Trump (as do I), but tonight he brought such a naked display of partisanship as to be offputting to anyone but the most die-hard Hillary supporters.  It was Hannity for the left, and that's neither necessary nor desirable.

13 minutes ago, maraleia said:

How many people thought that even the chairs they chose for last night's forum were sexist? They didn't need to be that high off the ground because they were already on a riser to be higher than the audience and I think that's one of the reasons why Hillary stood up to answer the questions.

I didn't see it that way.  I thought she stood because she wanted to face her questioners directly, which she couldn't have done without twisting herself on the stool, and also just because it would come across as more direct, more respectful to the questioners, and less casual, as befit a serious discussion (oops, she didn't smile enough, right?).

[jjj]

11 hours ago, represent said:

I think Rachel's father was a United States Air Force Captain.

Yes, he was.  And she mentioned on her Wednesday show that her father was a member of the "Intrepid Club," so she had been taken on the "behind-the-scenes" tour of the museum. 

[nowandlater]

I'm only halfway through tonight's show, so I'm not done with Lawrence. I mean, he's always hated Trump, right?

But what I do have a problem with is ... David Cay Johnson...I don't mind him, but he's on Lawrence way too much, especially lately.

(I did read the beginning of Johnson's book, and yes, Lawrence is mentioned in there.)

It sort of reminds me a few years when Krystal Ball was a daily presence on Lawrence, almost like she's a co-host. (Wonder whatever happened to her after The Cycle.)

Edited September 9, 2016 by nowandlater

[33kaitykaity]

Halperin finally said something useful.  He was on the 11th Hour and they were discussing the comments Trump had made about his briefers.  Trump said something to the effect of that the briefers didn't agree with Obama about something.  How could he tell?  He said he's very good at body language. 

Halperin's useful comment -- it is dangerous to cross the intelligence community.  Well, no shit, Sherlock.  They know how to get rid of the body.  

[Padma]

This was an interesting criticism of the forum from a veteran who was there.  I wonder how NBC chose the questions (including One. More. eMail.) They definitely weren't at random.

Too bad, as the elderly veteran showed--and this article, too--if NBC had the courage to open up the room to the candidates--no screening of questions and a lot less of Lauer (and email) it could have been so much better, especially since there was only half hour each.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/09/opinion/veterans-as-props-on-nbcs-commander-in-chief-forum.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

[rcc]

Trump looked too red as opposed to looking too orange usually. Either way he still looks like hell.
 

[NextIteration]

8 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

I'm done with LOD!!!

I'm almost there.

8 hours ago, cattykit said:

I'm not done with LOD, but, for the reasons Padma stated, I was very disappointed with tonight's show.  Also, I get that LOD loathes Trump (as do I), but tonight he brought such a naked display of partisanship as to be offputting to anyone but the most die-hard Hillary supporters.  It was Hannity for the left, and that's neither necessary nor desirable.

I just don't see LOD that way, sure, he goes after Trump with naked aggression (somebody needs to!) but I rarely see him as being truly supportive of Clinton - in fact I think of him as a benevolent detractor of Hillary's.

[Moose135]

13 hours ago, oakville said:

I wonder why MSNBC would risk its credibility by having Lauer moderate this forum? Todd,Rachel, Guthrie would do a much better job.

MSNBC is owned by NBC - I'm sure it was some network bosses making the decision on who would moderate.

[Mumbles]

Quote

Halperin's useful comment -- it is dangerous to cross the intelligence community.  Well, no shit, Sherlock.  They know how to get rid of the body.  

Yep. And they always manage to cover their tracks. Other than George Tenet - the political appointee - has there been any accountability for the bad Iraq intel? And the terrifying thought is - those people are still in charge of the Intel.

As for LOD, I gave up on him years ago when he had Anthony Weiner on during his *first* sexting scandal. It seemed to me that Weiner had been lured on the show via false pretenses....he started to talk about policy and then O'Donnell let into him with sanctimonious, pompous attack on the sexting. By then the scandal had been known for months so it wasn't new, nor was it illuminating. It was just kind of mean and self-righteous - O'Donnell was just taking his turn kicking the guy. I turned the channel after the segment in a position I never thought I'd be in - sympathetic to Weiner.

And that to me sums up O'Donnell - a self-righteous gasbag who uses his literal bully pulpit to go after easy targets.  I could put up with the sanctimony if he used it to take down some lesser-known villains - I.e. use the show to educate. 

[NextIteration]

43 minutes ago, Moose135 said:

MSNBC is owned by NBC - I'm sure it was some network bosses making the decision on who would moderate.

More importantly, both are owned by Comcast.  You can't ever really forget that - they have a message to drive, and in the end it isn't in the best interest of the little people.

[cattykit]

WaPo annotated version of Chris Matthews's interview with Rudy Giuliani

Where, oddly enough, CM apparently did the right thing for a change.  Gave Rudy enough rope to hang himself.

Quote

In a lengthy and heated interview, Matthews went hard at Giuliani for his claims about Clinton’s health. Giuliani also found himself suggesting Trump doesn’t really have any questions about President Obama’s birthplace — something Trump himself has yet to say.

It’s truly must-see TV.

[33kaitykaity]

2 hours ago, Mumbles said:

Yep. And they always manage to cover their tracks. Other than George Tenet - the political appointee - has there been any accountability for the bad Iraq intel? And the terrifying thought is - those people are still in charge of the Intel.

Cheney/Rumsfeld were in charge of what they call stovepiping the intel that they would use to justify invading Iraq and they ignored everything else, so I think we're okay on that score.  

[car54]

Whoa, his birther fight with Rudy went to Matthews' head--he's grilling this congressman Kingston.
Joy Reid and Katy Tur and NOT having this guy's story.   This is awesome.

[NextIteration]

Sometimes I enjoy Matthews, sometimes I can stand him.  That said, I think the polls have lit a fire under his ass and he realizes what a flustercluck it would be should tRump win this election - so now he's all rabid working against it.

Also, I think that Nosferatu drove him over the edge yesterday with his bat-shit crazy.

Edited September 10, 2016 by NextIteration

[car54]

I suspect Chris has a book deal for his "Election Diary" pieces.

The past couple of days since the Commander forum, I feel like ALL the MSNBC people have woken up and are trying to show more of Clinton and show it when Trump shows his ass some way.

[Just Here]

1 hour ago, car54 said:

Whoa, his birther fight with Rudy went to Matthews' head--he's grilling this congressman Kingston.
Joy Reid and Katy Tur and NOT having this guy's story.   This is awesome.

Video (MSNBC.com) -- It's 14 minutes, but well-worth watching the whole thing.

[ruby24]

I think they're only doing this because of the Matt Lauer disaster, but I hope it lasts.

[Medicine Crow]

The sooner they get that Mitchell Bitch off my teevee, the happier I'll be.  (She can't talk about a Democrat without a snide or sarcastic bend to her comments.)

[jjj]

1 hour ago, Just Here said:

Video (MSNBC.com) -- It's 14 minutes, but well-worth watching the whole thing.

THANK YOU for the link -- indeed, it is well worth the time.  I get the impression everyone has been unleashed!  Katy, Joy and Chris all were terrific in this.

Also, MSNBC is giving us a full set of repeats of the evening shows this evening (Friday)!  Such a relief on the West Coast to have this on the screen in the evening, instead of "Sex Slaves" -- which is now at 11:00 PM PT. 

[shok]

2 hours ago, jjj said:

 Katy, Joy and Chris all were terrific in this.

 

Well, Katy and Joy were. ;)  Although I'll give Chris a little credit. For once he let his guests talk and let both Joy and Katy have their say and hooboy, they sure said it!

[pennben]

Buckle up folks, we're about to get a lot of crazy on this network (and others) over the next few days (weeks).....

Hillary just called out the portion of Trump's supporters that are 'racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic supporters'. 

What will Chris Matthews do?  Rachel? LOD? Chris Hayes.  Will they just analyze this solely as a political move or as something more?  I've already set a recording to watch AMJoy this morning.

Holy moly, the press is going to have to address this outright now.

Edited September 10, 2016 by pennben

[NewDigs]

10 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

The sooner they get that Mitchell Bitch off my teevee, the happier I'll be.  (She can't talk about a Democrat without a snide or sarcastic bend to her comments.)

I agree.

I groaned, loudly, when I saw her boarding Hillary's plane.

[33kaitykaity]

On 9/7/2016 at 5:51 AM, 33kaitykaity said:

Lawrence had a panel of three to discuss the election.  Lawrence went first to Boris Epshteyn, a Trump surrogate, who blathered his blather without interruption.  But when Lawrence went to David Corn to refute the blather, Epshteyn interruped, talked over, wouldn't let Corn or the other panelist -- whose name I have forgotten -- finish even a single sentence.  Lawrence tried to shut Epshteyn down, but it was futile.  Lawrence needed to cut Epshteyn's mic until a question had been directed to Epshteyn.  

I'm jumping on the "Joy is a goddess" bandwagon.  She had good old Boris on this morning and he tried to do his over-talking shtick.  Joy got right on him,  "We don't do crosstalk on this show."  When he continued unabated, she power-slammed him with "Don't make me cut your mic."  

Wow.  Just wow.  

Edited September 10, 2016 by 33kaitykaity

[Grommet]

I watched Joy's show and groaned when she introduced Boris, but then Malcolm Nance - yay! Joy did a good job. I particularly enjoyed her saying she liked how Boris threw a complete falsehood in at the end of one of his garbage-filled comments. Ha!

[xaxat]

So Hilary makes her comment about a "basket of deplorables" (something I think was ill advised) while Trump claims that Hilary could get away with shooting someone through the heart.

Guess which one dominates the headlines.

The media has just given up on critically evaluating Trump's statements.

Quote

All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation.

Mein Kampf.

Edited September 10, 2016 by xaxat

[Padma]

Thank you, Hillary. I've been much too obsessed with this election and its coverage. I cannot endure the coming weeks when the media runs the "deplorable" comment into the ground and I have to watch your poll numbers plummet.  (And, yes, Trump says she could "shoot someone through the heart" and be protected... the crowd yells "Lock her up"...cheers every hateful lie from Trump's mouth and the press goes.... goes... wait a minute, they're not paying any attention as usual to things that would be ... what's the word? ... deplorable.... from any one else.)

I did  like the HuffPo headline: "Backbone: They ARE Deplorable".  Because that's what I was thinking .  Do people watch his entire rallies and how the crowd responds? It's actually beyond deplorable. It's terrifying. If you believed what Trump  says (and actually many of them do), Hillary is an opportunistic crimanlal who doesn't care anything about Americans, is playing us for "suckers", would be locked up in prison for her "crimes" except for being protected by the (Kenyan born) President who is also the Muslim founder of IsIS.  He doesn't say all of that last part, but he's still a birther, still suggesting Obama sides with our enemies (because... subtext...he's one of them).  How is it NOT "deplorable"--I wouldn't say 50%. I'd say 100% --and most of all the cowardly Republican officials who don't stand up to Trump and repudiate his hateful, divisive language each and every day.

That said, what was she thinking to SAY it?  What a terrible decision. I have no words for that (other than...she was generous to peg it at 50%)

In any case I may only be able to watch LOD going forward. I'm afraid everyone else is going to keep on bashing her for it. He may actually come out and say "It's true."

[NewDigs]

I don't know if I was listening to MSNBC or CNN on the way to work this morning but whoever it was managed to steer the conversation to the alt-right and how this whole Trump "movement" is emboldening the "deplorables".

They might have changed their tune by the time I drive home.

[represent]

Look, there's a difference between the Archie Bunkers/George Jeffersons of the world, and the David Dukes/Bannons. 

Donald Trump has a lot of Archie Bunkers, you roll your eyes up in your head and you're like OMG, but you're not afraid that they are going to burn a cross on your lawn, hang you from a tree, or try to exterminate groups of people. You know that they aren't filled with the hate that would make one idolize Adolf Hitler.

No, the Bunkers of the world in the privacy of their homes just shout out (Edith, it's time to move!) LOL, All in the Family was a funny show. They would never put that on today. Maybe HBO would air it.

Point is, you knew that for all the bigoted comments that came out of George Jefferson and Archie Bunker's mouths, they were at the end of the day, your miserable, bigoted grandparent that wouldn't take up arms and join and extremist group.

But, then you have Trump's "deplorables," the ones that are filled with the kind of hate that makes them idolize Adolf Hitler and long for the days when they could hang black folks from trees.  I don't know the percentage and I don't need to, Hillary should have left that out. She should have been more specific, keep using David Duke, KKK, Neo-Nazi, Bannon before the word supporter. Because I do know they are there and  they aren't just at his rallies they are way up at the top of the food chain, running his campaign.

Edited September 10, 2016 by represent

[Medicine Crow]

I wish she hadn't backed down.  She was right & I think half is a fair guess.  Just sayin'.

Of course, Pense & Trump insinuated she said ALL of their followers were "deplorables".  It's sickening the power Trump has over the media.

[Padma]

4 hours ago, NewDigs said:

I don't know if I was listening to MSNBC or CNN on the way to work this morning but whoever it was managed to steer the conversation to the alt-right and how this whole Trump "movement" is emboldening the "deplorables".

They might have changed their tune by the time I drive home.

Maybe it was CNN where I'm glad to see they posted this:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/10/opinions/how-trump-has-normalized-the-deplorable-bailey/index.html

I hope she doesn't back away completely. They show her commercials all day long on MSNBC--with Trump mocking women, the disabled reporter, a veteran family, using profanity. There's also his attacks on Mexicans and Muslims--I heard last night on the MSNBC feed as he said we shouldn't let any more Syrians immigrate here, they're so dangerous.  Really? How many attacks have we experienced from Syrians or other Muslims? There have been tens of thousands of Syrian immigrants. And its been peaceful. Same with Somalis whom he smeared as terrorists while visiting one of the towns they've successfully integrated into in Maine.

The media and public have been very gentle with his supporters even when criticizing Trump. It's time to get people to think about the person they're supporting and what it says about them (and this includes the GOP officials like Ryan). He's speaking for them. He already represents them. If he's a bigoted ignoramus so are they, its just that simple.  If they think what he's saying is great, then that says something, too.

But the press will continue to coddle Trump and attack Hillary (I just saw the clip of Lauer interrupting her so rudely over and over, shown on The Late Show. While being ever-so courteous to Trump. Yep, my new word, deplorable! And probably very sexist of him, too. What other reason could there be for such disrespect to a woman and such docility--is that a word?--to a man. Trump clearly intimidated him. At least its a heads up for Lester Holt. Maybe he will do better.)

[GHScorpiosRule]

I got the heads up to watch AMJoy ( thanks @pennben!

It was glorious, but I really did want Joy to cut off Boris's mic just so he would know that none of his bs could be heard. Not to mention her "Malcolm is talking" to Boris as if he were a toddler who was misbehaving.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Joy's barley suppressed disdain for Trump surrogates is a joy to watch

I've noticed more and more moderators being firmer with Trump's surrogates who like to talk over others and throw out falsehoods. CNN's Lemon was pretty strict with this same guy who made an assertion that Clinton is a criminal. Lemon set him straight and addressed the audience that no, she's never been convicted of a crime therefore, she's not a criminal. 

Edited September 11, 2016 by Deputy Deputy CoS
Name Correction

[represent]

She needs to stick up for herself, for the cause, her campaign just always seems to lack the direct words to put these folks in their place.  

Now they're saying that does she mean that if she wins Trump supporters won't have a seat at her table?

Well her response should be, if they're David Duke/KKK/Neo-Nazi supporters, then no, they WILL NOT BE WELCOMED. If they want to discuss things like sending our LGBTQ fellow citizens to institutions to "pray away the gay," because shit like this is in the republican platform,  then no.  If they want to talk about closing/defunding Plant Parenthood, then no.  What other type of third class citizenship crap is in that platform?

But they'll be more than welcomed at my table otherwise, to talk about jobs, healthcare (Obama Care) and what's not working for them, entitlements, education, how to fight terrorism without xenophobia, protecting religious freedom without treating LGBTQ people like second class citizens, immigration policy etc...

She needs to come out of her face on the record and lay down the law. Stop mincing words, and just finally lay out what she will and will not stand for.  Lay out who and what she's all about as a human being and tell folks if you don't approve then no, I am not the candidate for you and I can sleep well knowing that. 

This was a good start minus the 50 percent part, and she needs to keep going.

Edited September 11, 2016 by represent

[Medicine Crow]

38 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Joy's barley suppressed disdain for Trump surrogates is a joy to watch

I've noticed more and more moderators being firmer with Trump's surrogates who like to talk over others and throw out falsehoods. CNN's Lennon was pretty strict with this same guy who made an assertion that Clinton is a criminal. Lennon set him straight and addressed the audience that no, she's never been convicted of a crime therefore, she's not a criminal. 

I think you mean Lemon (Don)???

[Padma]

59 minutes ago, represent said:

She needs to stick up for herself, for the cause, her campaign just always seems to lack the direct words to put these folks in their place.  

Now they're saying that does she mean that if she wins Trump supporters won't have a seat at her table?

Well her response should be, if they're David Duke/KKK/Neo-Nazi supporters, then no, they WILL NOT BE WELCOMED. If they want to discuss things like sending our LGBTQ fellow citizens to institutions to "pray away the gay," because shit like this is in the republican platform,  then no.  If they want to talk about closing/defunding Plant Parenthood, then no.  What other type of third class citizenship crap is in that platform?

But they'll be more than welcomed at my table otherwise, to talk about jobs, healthcare (Obama Care) and what's not working for them, entitlements, education, how to fight terrorism without xenophobia, protecting religious freedom without treating LGBTQ people like second class citizens, immigration policy etc...

She needs to come out of her face on the record and lay down the law. Stop mincing words, and just finally lay out what she will and will not stand for.  Lay out who and what she's all about as a human being and tell folks if you don't approve then no, I am not the candidate for you and I can sleep well knowing that. 

This was a good start minus the 50 percent part, and she needs to keep going.

That would be good. David Duke and the KKK not welcome.  Did anyone say that Trump supporters WANT to be "at the table" with Clinton?  Since they think, literally, that she should be in prison for, as Trump says (once again confirming he doesn't undrerstand the law OR the Constitution) her "many, many crimes", why would they think they could find common ground with such a person? The broadcast of his rally the other day said "this is our last chance to get the government we want." Her election marks the end of civilization as we know it. She shouldn't worry too much about "saving a space at the table", they won't be there.

I love Joy. Sorry to lose Melissa, but I think her departure meant that Joy's star began to rise and imo it's been a great thing.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

49 minutes ago, Medicine Crow said:

I think you mean Lemon (Don)???

Yes, that's who I meant. Thank you