General Gabbery: DWTS

[Uke]

Yeah, I don't want to see young celebs do the rumba.  It puts the pros in an awkward situation and brings out the people that do say "he/she's too young." Plus the celebs usually end up skipping dances so it's not necessarily unfair. Or did they start having celebs skip dances because of too young celebs? We even had a discussion about how calling Hayes a stud is inappropriate and weren't people upset with something Bruno said to Willow?  

 

Having Zendaya do a rumba would have opened a whole other can of worms because many feel that the media, and society in general, present a hyper-sexualized image of young black women.  Zendaya was a phenomenal dancer and would have excelled in any dance given.  Val did everything in his power to make sure he didn't create dances that could be construed as sexual. The rumba had the potential to skew that dynamic for the public. 

 

Since Willow's elimination, I would prefer that they not have stars under 17 compete.  Willow's elimination was brutal to watch. She was invested in the show and did the dances well, but her breaking down made me realize how young she was.  I was wary about Hayes being on the show because he's also really young and only had his Vine as celebrity experience. He handled the pressure really well.  I didn't worry about Bindi since she literally grew up on camera and knows how to handle high-pressure situations. IDK if it is more of a maturity situation or I'm a hen, but I did have a "think of the children" moment with Willow being on the show.        

 

I really don't want to see the young 14, 15, even 17 year olds doing overly sexualized dances, even kids as talented as Zendaya. Even Bindi doing a rumba-in-name-only was kept toned down.  I don't know who is keeping the lid on all this, TPTB or the pros.  I suspect it's the pros since they all have a continuing season-to-season interest in not creeping out the viewers.  As far as "mother hens", they are all supposed to have a parent/guardian on site at all times. Sadie's parents were quite vocal in deciding what Sadie was and wasn't allowed to do/wear/etc. Although Willow's and Zendaya's dad's weren't as public as the Robertsons (who are themselves public figures), I've no doubt they also had their say. 

 

I think what made me apprehensive with Hayes was that during "memorable year" week, he spent time with his mom for apparently the first time in weeks. I suspect his older brother Nash was his guardian (er, hmmmmm!).  Thankfully, Emma is a good lady and kept things in line, as far as I've heard.

 

(Yes, I know in dance competition, kids even younger do rumbas and other sexy dances. But that's a whole different training/performing situation and a far different audience.)

[birkenstock]

I think what made me apprehensive with Hayes was that during "memorable year" week, he spent time with his mom for apparently the first time in weeks. I suspect his older brother Nash was his guardian (er, hmmmmm!).  Thankfully, Emma is a good lady and kept things in line, as far as I've heard.

 

YES! I saw that too and was like who is taking care of you, Hayes?!  It was weird because he seems close to his mom. It seemed irresponsible on her part. I saw her in the crowd a few weeks after that. TPTB gave him the best possible partner in Emma. Even then, should pros then serve as a sort of babysitter for their young celebs? 

 

ETA: I guess the babysitting would only come in when parents can't be on set.  I didn't know that guardians were required to be at practices but it makes sense. I remember seeing Willow and Sadie's parents on the show, but don't think I saw Zendaya or Shawn's parents. I just thought Hayes' brother was hanging out. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Cocka doodle dont

[truthaboutluv]

Zendaya's dad was always present, they just never showed him in the packages. 

[gohawks]

I'm not sure where this should go because it's across seasons and contestants, but ...

Can we drop the insinuations that DWTS has it out for POC or female POC? Then tend to pick who they're going to give a bad edit based on personality, not skin color.

.

Why would DWTS be any different from the country as a whole? Racial bias and racial predjudice are real problems in this country, so it's entirely reasonable to think these issues could be at play on DWTS. It is popular to accuse people who express concerns or frustration about these issues as making everything about race, but there are definite patterns evident regarding Black women on this show, IMO. Edited October 31, 2015 by gohawks

[Andiethewestie]

Why would DWTS be any different from the country as a whole? Racial bias and racial predjudice are real problems in this country, so it's entirely reasonable to think these issues could be at play on DWTS. It is popular to accuse people who express concerns or frustration about these issues as making everything about race, but there are definite patterns evident regarding Black women on this show, IMO.

For sure. As a white woman I am taken aback at the patterns, and I am not sure why it continues..

[McManda]

It is popular to accuse people who express concerns or frustration about these issues as making everything about race, but there are definite patterns evident regarding Black women on this show, IMO.

 

I mean, sure. I don't know anyone's motivations for doing or saying what they do. But it seems a little convenient to claim that the edits celebs get on this show are solely do to race. For each black woman that gets a "bad edit", they've also had black women get good ones. Laila Ali and Mel B were black women that did well and did it with judges praise. Monique Coleman was popular while she was on the show. The claim was that Zendaya was also targeted; I didn't see that in regards to her skin color, though I did get the feeling that her "story" was about her age (just like Sadie's after her). Plus, there are white celebs that get "bad edits", too: as discussed, Nastia didn't get the story of the year, nor really did someone like Charlie White (whose story was a lot like Tamar's ... he was good, but never could connect with the judges to get the scores that reflect that). Master P wasn't targeted because he was black, he was targeted because he was lazy and uninterested.

 

I'm not trying to marginalize the struggles that POC might have to go through just because of the color of their skin. But I don't necessarily think that tptb on DWTS target people solely because of their race. There's more in play than that, though it might happen to coincide with skin color. Causation doesn't mean correlation.

Edited November 1, 2015 by McManda

[gohawks]

I mean, sure. I don't know anyone's motivations for doing or saying what they do. But it seems a little convenient to claim that the edits celebs get on this show are solely do to race. For each black woman that gets a "bad edit", they've also had black women get good ones. Laila Ali and Mel B were black women that did well and did it with judges praise. Monique Coleman was popular while she was on the show. The claim was that Zendaya was also targeted; I didn't see that in regards to her skin color, though I did get the feeling that her "story" was about her age (just like Sadie's after her). Plus, there are white celebs that get "bad edits", too: as discussed, Nastia didn't get the story of the year, nor really did someone like Charlie White (whose story was a lot like Tamar's ... he was good, but never could connect with the judges to get the scores that reflect that). Master P wasn't targeted because he was black, he was targeted because he was lazy and uninterested.

 

I'm not trying to marginalize the struggles that POC might have to go through just because of the color of their skin. But I don't necessarily think that tptb on DWTS target people solely because of their race. There's more in play than that, though it might happen to coincide with skin color. Causation doesn't mean correlation.

Just because these patterns don't occur with every Black women does not mean they don't exist. That is a, " I have Black friends" kind of thinking. Bias and racism are complicated.

There is disagreement about this issue and that is fine. Suggesting the issue should not be discussed raises the red flag.

[McManda]

Suggesting the issue should not be discussed raises the red flag.

 

This is true and it was a misstatement on my part to phrase it the way I did. My only point was to the comment that suggested that tptb had it out for every black woman on the show (or as was being expanded into, had it out for all POC) when I don't think that's the case. I didn't mean to sweep the issue under the rug, just to maybe slow up with the insinuation that DWTS was unfriendly toward anyone non-white on the show, because IMO that's just as bad as suggesting the problem doesn't exist.

[ocelot]

I so enjoy seeing a polite and thoughtful conversation about how racial issues might manifest in the show editing/storylining. Thanks to all of you above. Usually this kind of thing would have been shut down by people who don't want the conversation to be had.

[smiley13]

I think that this has been a very diverse show and I have not noticed any particular group being treated any differently.  There have been male, female, black, Asian, Hispanic and white winners.  

 

Well, other than Golden Boy and his partners getting special treatment, but that is another issue.

Edited November 2, 2015 by smiley13

[boyznkatz]

For sure. As a white woman I am taken aback at the patterns, and I am not sure why it continues..

 

I agree. I'm not black either, but there is no denying how black women are treated on the show. Black men are treated okay on the show, but most of them are football players. 

[PTVjones]

I agree. I'm not black either, but there is no denying how black women are treated on the show. Black men are treated okay on the show, but most of them are football players. 

For how popular black football players have been on this show (I loved Jacoby and Karina) I always kind of wondered why there haven't been many white white football players, or latino baseball players. 

[boyznkatz]

For how popular black football players have been on this show (I loved Jacoby and Karina) I always kind of wondered why there haven't been many white white football players, or latino baseball players. 

 

I think the baseball season overlaps the two DWTS seasons. They might be able to get someone who is retire, though. They did have the white football player who was with Anna. He did pretty well, as I can recall.

[PTVjones]

I think the baseball season overlaps the two DWTS seasons. They might be able to get someone who is retire, though. They did have the white football player who was with Anna. He did pretty well, as I can recall.

yea i remember him dancing w/ the other football pros during the 200th episode. But i mean... he was definitely the white one in a group of a solid... at least 6 others I feel like lol. 

[birkenstock]

Yeah, I think Kurt Warner is the only white NFLer who has competed. I don't think it's been done on purpose. I think that TPTB would jump on getting any well known (or even middling) NFL player. JJ Watts, Drew Brees, Julian Edelman, Brett Favre etc. would do really well on the show. I think that Rob Gronkowski or Clay Matthews would be fun additions. It just depends on whether they would agree to come on and if they felt they needed the exposure.  Many could probably make more doing a few commercials than spend the time on the show.

 

Also, I think that there have been a pretty good number of black actors and musicians on the show too. Corbin Bleu, Alfonso, Kyle Massey and Romeo are just a few. The NFL players do best by far, but there have been quite a few black men who are non-atheletes. I do agree that they don't face the same types of editing that black women face though. 

[TeeMo]

They asked Rob Gronkowski to do Season 20 but he declined.

Erin tweeted last night that she wants Kevin Millar to compete as the first MLB representative. She was working the World Series game with him. He is retired and a character so he could be fun.

[anony mouse]

Is it editing or is it a persona some of these contestants are putting on to play a part? There is a huge problem with how black women are portrayed on reality television, and there does seem to be a pattern on DWTS. But there are some black women who have escaped that portrayal on the show, which does lead me back to editing vs. persona. It would be harder to edit Tamar in that way if she hadn't given them the clips of her questioning the dance story/set up multiple weeks in a row. Did the producers ask her to give Val a hard time? Or did Tamar go that route to be seen as a bigger personality/thought her presentation would be seen as humorous?

[PTVjones]

Also, I think that there have been a pretty good number of black actors and musicians on the show too. Corbin Bleu, Alfonso, Kyle Massey and Romeo are just a few. The NFL players do best by far, but there have been quite a few black men who are non-atheletes. I do agree that they don't face the same types of editing that black women face though. 

I would agree. I think that has a lot to do with how someone can show bias in a narrative. I think the "angry black man" narrative is much more prominent in this country. Therefore there is no hiding that kind of bias in DWTS because it can be very easily identified and challenged by viewers who take offense. However "the angry black woman" narrative is not as prominent and is mostly sensitive for people who have either experienced it or are aware of it general. Therefore this narrative can happen on a show like DWTS because not as many people will pick up on it because they have not experienced it (whether it be personally or seen it somewhere else). I'm not saying this is some sinister plot with every black female contestant on the show with the producers, but they can get away with it more.

[birkenstock]

I would agree. I think that has a lot to do with how someone can show bias in a narrative. I think the "angry black man" narrative is much more prominent in this country. Therefore there is no hiding that kind of bias in DWTS because it can be very easily identified and challenged by viewers who take offense. However "the angry black woman" narrative is not as prominent and is mostly sensitive for people who have either experienced it or are aware of it general. Therefore this narrative can happen on a show like DWTS because not as many people will pick up on it because they have not experienced it (whether it be personally or seen it somewhere else). I'm not saying this is some sinister plot with every black female contestant on the show with the producers, but they can get away with it more.

YES. I was thinking about how the show hasn't pulled the whole "angry black man" narrative for any of the contestants.  Production has shown their frustration, but never gone down the road to make it seem like they should be feared. I think that some of the competitors were aware of this potential edit and made sure not to "give" any such scenes.  But I'm glad that the show has never gone there.  Edits haven't always been positive. Jaleel White kind of had a desperation edit, but I think it was that he really wanted to well and be liked. He came across too intense at times (IMO).    

Edited November 2, 2015 by Cocka doodle dont

[truthaboutluv]

You know I've hesitated a lot about commenting on this issue because it's such a touchy one. So just to be clear, what narrative exactly are people referring to - is it the "angry black woman" thing? Because if so, as a person who has watched this show since the first season, I simply cannot agree that there has been this pattern of the women of color being edited that way. One person getting that type of edit does not a pattern make. There needs to be a succession of this type of edit for it to be a pattern. 

 

When I think of some of the women of color that's been on the show, I cannot remember any that got an angry black woman edit. Mya got the Nastia edit - that is, beautiful technical dancer but cold and doesn't connect. Monique Coleman got more of the Charlie White edit in that she basically got forgotten and ignored most of the time but I don't remember her packages showing her to be anything but very pleasant. Zendaya was presented as a very sweet and lovely young woman who carried herself very well and was an amazing dancer. Mel B. was funny and great energy and she and Maks had a great partnership. Nicole got some negative edits but it was more in the pretentious artist vein rather than some angry woman and Amber's "negative" packages were only ever about her injuries but other than that she was presented as a fighter, hard worker and sweetheart. 

 

And the ultimate for me was Lil' Kim. Here was a woman who would have been primed for that edit if they were so inclined with the fact that she was a rapper who had just very recently gotten out of prison. And just to be clear, I loved Lil' Kim but trust me, go find old posts from that season when she was announced for the cast and some of the reactions about her. Especially when she so very casually talked about her time in prison being when she became a fan of the show. And yet Kim had a very positive edit on the show. The judges thought she was an amazing dancer, she and Derek had a really fun and nice partnership. I knew she wouldn't win just because of the demographic of people who watch and vote for this show but I thought she did amazing. 

 

Finally, I will say Laila Ali I felt at times got the slightly arrogant edit which leads me to Tamar. I don't see Tamar getting "angry black woman" edit, I think she's getting the arrogant and aloof edit which admittedly will not help with voters, but it's why I just don't feel like I see this pattern that's being suggested. Frankly the only really "angry person of color" edit I truly remember on this show was Floyd Mayweather.

 

I do not disagree that this show edits packages with an agenda and that the producers choose narratives for the contestants and will manipulate the packages in that vein. However, I just cannot agree that there has been this concerted effort and pattern of negativity against women of color. But as always YMMV.

Edited November 2, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[tearbender]

Nicole got some negative edits but it was more in the pretentious artist vein rather than some angry woman

 

Nicole Sherzinger is not black. Women of color aren't interchangeable; the stereotypes associated with one race are not automatically associated with every other race.

 

Lil' Kim had a fine attitude, but being partnered with Derek is usually a sure fire shield against negative packages and edits. Nastia was the exception.

[Morrigan]

Oh good grief at the gimmicks. I think whenever they do this, someone has severe viewer-vote problems and the show has to pull out all the stops to save the person.

 

A few years ago, they had a ridiculous 15-point bonus dance, and that was to save Chelsea Kane. They are so blitheringly obvious about the rigging, I just can't stand this anymore. BTW, I think the viewer involvement with picking the dance-off winner or whatever is just to create a murky smokescreen to kind of hide the obvious rigging with the immunity and extra points next week.

 

Lying creeps.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Morrigan

[akamogari]

Does anyone know the address of the reharsal studio?

[Serendi]

I posted what I think it is, but maybe I shouldn't without knowing why you want to know. Some creative Googling might get you there.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Serendi

[Rancide]

This show is still really reactionary in a lot of ways, not just limited to race.  Like, the fact that we still seem to be pretending that there are an abundance of straight male ballroom dancers.  There's a reason why throughout the history of this show virtually all of the female pros on this show have been either American or from countries where English is the first language spoken, whereas the majority of male pros have not.  

 

Derek is obviously a legitimately good dancer and has 100% earned his place on the show, but I feel like half the falling all over him, particularly in the beginning, came from his unique status as one of the few demo-friendly, straight-presenting American males qualified to be a pro on this show.  Ditto Mark. 

 

How many out or gay-presenting male pros has this show had?  Louis?  Keo?  Anyone else?  And Louis sort of gets a pass because of his status in the dance world, which the show wanted to cash in on in the early days to give itself some cred.  I wish the show would give up the ghost on this one.  It's 2015, and I think the country is ready to acknowledge that gay men are part of the dance community, too.  I think the country can also deal with the fact that couples can have dance chemistry without wanting to sleep with each other.

[MickeyMouse]

Derek is obviously a legitimately good dancer and has 100% earned his place on the show, but I feel like half the falling all over him, particularly in the beginning, came from his unique status as one of the few demo-friendly, straight-presenting American males qualified to be a pro on this show.  Ditto Mark.

 

Actually, I think in Derek's case at least, he was instantly a favorite because of the DWTS tour he did right before he was on the show. He was known by a couple of the viewers even before Season 5 started. Plus, his sister was arguably the favorite female pro at the time.

 

As for the rest of the pros, I think there's been a pretty good diversity of them. At least until recently with all the Utah ladies taking over. The men are still pretty widespread though. But I agree they tend to hire men that are straight and no gay men (or women) at all. They could be a little better with that area.

[St. Claire]

How many out or gay-presenting male pros has this show had?  Louis?  Keo?  Anyone else?

 

Before I saw this post, my first thought was the Louis was the only openly gay pro I could name (not knowing about Keo was because I haven't paid much attention to him, not because I assumed he was straight). It seems that there have been more LGBT celebs than pros (Michael Sam, Lance Bass, Margaret Cho, Chas Bono).

[Serendi]

I think Keo is being called "gay presenting." I actually had the impression he's straight from an early interview, but I may be wrong about that.

[St. Claire]

So, even if I limit my count to just cis-men, we've had more gay celebs than gay pros (that we know of).

[ocelot]

Male ballroom dancers are actually more likely to be straight? Like most of them are straight. Not sure where people are getting the idea otherwise? It's ballet, modern, contemporary, jazz, broadway etc male dancers that most of them are gay.

 

Like yes gay men are a huge part of the dance community, but ballroom is only a very tiny part of that community so? Imo that's one of the reasons ballroom dance is so popular among older people. And part of the reason SYTYCD is not that popular. The show has had 3 gay winners, 6 gay runner ups. Like it's an extremely gay show.

 

Btw the only pro besides Louis I can think of is possibly Dmitry but I'm not 100% sure about that (just based on something Benji Schwimmer said).

 

To illustrate my point about how gay the show is, a dance choreographed by a gay man with two gay dancers about a gay breakup (although the show denied it at the time but we all knew) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YbEtfJryXA

Edited November 3, 2015 by ocelot

[Rancide]

I apologize if my post was taken to imply that all dancers are gay.  I didn't mean to say that, and I don't believe it to be true.  What I was trying to say was that gay men are a very real part of the male dance community (and a very real part of the male non-dance community for that matter) and very much not a real part of the male pro dancers on this show, and I find that problematic.  

 

But I also don't think there's anything wrong with being gay or that anyone should be offended to be perceived as gay, so...

 

I don't know Keo's actual orientation care for that matter.  He's just the only pro I can think of (other than Louis) who doesn't seem to be going out of his way to communicate his heterosexuality to the world or having the show go out of its way to communicate it for him.

[radishcake]

Speculating on people's sexuality in general is frowned on here at PTV because it's offensive and off topic. You can think what you want about the dancers private lives but unless it's on the show? Like in the case of Travis choreographing a dance? Totally fine to chat about. Any of the relationships that people talk about on their social media, also fine. Speculating that so and so is really gay and that girlfriend is just a beard? No. 

 

So to be clear gay or straight, speculating about people's sexuality is not on topic for this forum. Final word on it. 

 

ETA: I've removed the entire conversation re: this topic

Edited November 4, 2015 by radishcake
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[boyznkatz]

Does anyone know if 3 or 4 couples will be in the finals? If it is 3, I guess there will be a double elimination next week?

[ari333]

I agree. I'm not black either, but there is no denying how black women are treated on the show. Black men are treated okay on the show, but most of them are football players. 

 

Sorry I am going blank on her name, but she was with Derek. She was a black woman, young, had knee problems but powered through; She was a great dancer and maybe a Disney person? Also a vocalist?  She was not rail thin... a little curvy She could really  move and dance. And maybe she won. I cant recall...., what was her name?  Im blanking.

[truthaboutluv]

I believe you're talking about Amber Riley who won and she wasn't from a Disney show. She was an actress from the show Glee. 

[ari333]

I believe you're talking about Amber Riley who won and she wasn't from a Disney show. She was an actress from the show Glee. 

 Yes! Thank you! I was thinking of Amber. I loved her on the show.

[spanana]

I started to write this in the episode thread earlier, but it's more suited to here.  It's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that people (general people, not anyone specifically) still get so indignant when then best dancer doesn't win this show.  I'm guilty of it myself at times, believe me, but this is not a straight ballroom competition.  If it were, then yahoos at home who know nothing about dance wouldn't be allowed to vote.  We wouldn't have 70 year olds competing against teenagers.  People with professional dance experience versus people with no dance experience. At its heart, DWTS is a reality show.  A reality show wrapped in a dance competition, but after 10 full years of this show, I can't excuse any celeb that comes in and acts shocked that this is part personality and popularity contest as well.  Or people that expect to receive all 10's at all times because you can be the best freaking dancer in the world, but there is no storyline in constant near perfection.  So you can be Meryl Davis and you still aren't going to always be at the top of the leaderboard.

 

I've been with this thing since S2.  Sometimes I root for the best dancer in a season (Zendaya).  Sometimes I root for who makes me the happiest when they dance (S3 Emmitt, Jack Osbourne).  Sometimes I don't root for anyone (this season).  The real sign of me being invested in anyone on this show is me wanting to rewatch their dances and that I usually can't wait to see what they will do week to week.  I totally remember freaking out at TWOP back in the day in anticipation of what S2 Drew/Cheryl would do on any given week.   Yes, the Save a Horse and Thriller Paso days.

 

Also because it's a reality show, it is expected that celebs share something of themselves or at the very least show some vulnerability.  Again, if this were a straight dance competition then okay.   I don't need people to milk their tragedy for the sake of a mirrorball, nor should anyone share things that they don't want to share, but you do need to engage people.  You do need to win over fans.  Any celeb that comes in and treats this as a straight dance competition and doesn't engage in the rest of the show isn't going to win.  The only celebs I excuse for not knowing what they are getting into with this show are those from the first few seasons.  By S21 everyone should know the deal.

[Andie1]

Oh good grief at the gimmicks. I think whenever they do this, someone has severe viewer-vote problems and the show has to pull out all the stops to save the person.

 

A few years ago, they had a ridiculous 15-point bonus dance, and that was to save Chelsea Kane. They are so blitheringly obvious about the rigging, I just can't stand this anymore. BTW, I think the viewer involvement with picking the dance-off winner or whatever is just to create a murky smokescreen to kind of hide the obvious rigging with the immunity and extra points next week.

 

Lying creeps.

This is why the show is no fun anymore.  Reality show or not, the show messing with the scoring in addition to editing of personalities is just too hopelessly manipulative to be enjoyable.

[boyznkatz]

I don't think the best dancer should necessarily win, but the finals are boring if the dancers aren't at least much improved and pretty good. Emmitt Smith wasn't as good as Mario Lopez, but he was still good, and enjoyable to watch. I just can't stand to see people like Bristol Palin in the finals, who stomped around, never improved, and had a bad attitude to boot. They have one of those almost every season. I didn't have a problem with Candace Bure or Bill Engvall. Even though they weren't the best dancers, they weren't horrible and they had pleasant personalities, so they weren't boring to watch.

[Andie1]

I've switched my voting patterns over the years. I used to be taken in by all the horseshit this show pushes, but it just got old. I really don't give a rattz ass about the show's agenda to shove their next signed abc star down our throats,  I just watch for good dancing.  It's the only thing that's honest about the show. Everything else, including smearing people, in the name of "reality" is abhorrent and doesn't warrant my viewership. That's why I'll only watch dance segments on youtube.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Andie1

[boyznkatz]

Last week was the first week I watched an entire episode in like two years. It reminded me why I just started the watching the good people on YouTube for the most part. Same old manipulation, and same old tongue baths of the people they are hyping while cutting down the people they are trying to get rid of. Prior to the all-star season, when Melissa Rycroft was so blatantly favored, the show was fun to watch.

[majormama]

The person who is "supposed" to win is the person with the highest combined total of judges' scores and viewer votes. Period. It's not the most technically proficient, or the most entertaining performer, or the most improved, or the nicest, or the hottest, or whatever. When I call, text, or go online there are no instructions telling me I must vote based on X standard. I can vote for whomever I want for whatever reason I want.

 

I think there are four factors that go into being successful on this show: a reasonable amount of technical ability, entertaining performances, a nice personality and/or compelling storyline, and an inherent fan base. Whoever wins ranks high, though not necessarily highest, in all four areas. Someone who ranks really high in one area and really low in another will last longer than they "should" (looking at you, Michael Waltrip and your crazy NASCAR fans). It's the people who are across-the-board upper-middle who are most in danger of a "shocking" elimination.

 

As for this season, I really don't see a clear winner. All of the people I categorized as the bottom tier of technique went all in a row (not necessarily in the order I would have chosen, but all in a row) followed by all of the middle tier in a row with only Alek left of that group, leaving all of my top tier. I don't think that's ever happened before. All of the remaining contestants have given performances I found enjoyable as well as duds. It also seems, personality/story-wise, that everyone left is either polarizing or bland. Nick probably brought the largest fan base, so I'd maybe give him the edge, but I really don't know how it will all play out. And yet despite that, I haven't found this season to be very compelling. I'm not super invested in anyone.

[boyznkatz]

I get that and that's fine, but the judges have a tendency to way overscore anyone that the show wants in the finals. I have no problem with someone like Bill Engvall who received perfectly fair scores, but America voted for him, fair and square. I do have a problem when people like Melissa Rycroft pretty much got straight 30s from week 5, while plenty of others were just as good if not better (it was an all-star season after all). If everyone was scored fairly, I think Shawn Johnson would have won. BTW, Shawn was far from my favorite, but I can admit she would have probably won minus the shenanigans.

Edited November 5, 2015 by boyznkatz

[Andie1]

And there is the rub.  This show is nothing but shilling for their agenda.  The audience is just there so they can say "oh look at their scores and all the votes must verify it"  When it's all bullshit anyway. The FCC doesn't have to verify squat, because this isn't a game show for money, nor is it American Idol or other shows where the numbers make the difference between getting a record deal or not. It's just crap where the contestants get paid, mostly to play nice and keep their mouths shut about shenanigans.  The way they doctor this show if their goal is to make happy the sheep who fall for it then they've succeeded. Unfortunately for them a vast number of the demo they want to watch sees through the shit, no matter how they try to put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig. They won't ever get the 18-49 year olds to watch in the numbers they need.  

Edited November 5, 2015 by Andie1

[boyznkatz]

Yes, anyone who was blind could see that Noah Galloway did NOT deserve scores of 25+ week after week. Nastia was robbed because TPTB wanted him in the finals. The ridiculous scores as well as the cheesy proposal sealed the deal. Now they have egg on their faces because he and his girlfriend aren't even together anymore, just a few months after the show ended! I admire Noah's courage and don't even like Nastia, but no denying the girl could dance and deserved far better scores than Noah. This is still basically a fun dance show, even though the best dancer doesn't always win, not an outlet for ABC to pimp their latest wannabe.

[Andie1]

Cheese!  How about that cheddar served up warm when Allison announced her little Twitch, or the Nicks' box  with the blue balloons. It's got nuttin to do with dancing but everything to do with those ever lovin' votes and immunity scores!  Hey who didn't want to see Allison's bump grow, that's worth keeping Andy around for a few weeks. ...  Noah's proposal got competition!  Emmy nominated  fuckery will never win an Emmy.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Andie1

[crowceilidh]

I guess my tinfoil hat is a little outta shape.  I can't see any reason for them to piss off their big watching public, which let's face it, really isn't people who are obsessive enough to haunt ptv (and twop) talking about it week after week.  I think there is possibly some manipulation going with cross-promotion for ABC/Disney products and it would be interesting if someone tracked that effect, but the next talk show host/parade marshall doesn't have to win the mirrorball, they only have to be talked about positively because they did better than expected.  And sometimes, I'm sure, the cross-promotion is unintentional and the person wins the contract because of their successful stint and not the other way around.

[boyznkatz]

Well with the way the ratings have been, the big watching public must be noticing something.

[spanana]

Well with the way the ratings have been, the big watching public must be noticing something.

 

Ratings are starting to sink because the show is over 10 years old.  We are on S21.  Ratings across all network shows are way down.  American Idol used to be the number one show on television and is going into it's last season because it's a shadow of its former self.  Compared to that DWTS is in pretty decent shape all around.  How many shows get 21 seasons?  How many reality shows get 21 seasons?  And all that to say that DWTS still isn't in any real risk of being cancelled.  If a show is still in its glory days after 10 years kudos to them, but that is an extremely rare occurance.

 

Are there things I wish they would change about DWTS?  Or rather bring back?  I miss the cheesy announcer voice.  I miss the confessionals.  I miss the old cheesy glamour.  I wish there was less of an emphasis on latin and jazz.  I wish they could hire pros that were more diverse.  I wish the troupe wasn't in the celeb numbers.  My list goes on and on.

 

Yes, the show is manipulated.  Like ALL reality shows are.  Manipulation can be anything from the dance order, to the staging to the critiques, to the music clearances and etc.  But what does it mean to judge "fairly"?  Because I guarantee that means completely different things to different people.  If you are going to have a 70 year old compete against a 15 year old and judge fairly, then your 70 year old will probably never realistically deserve higher than a 3 if they are judged against younger, fitter competitiors.   So celebs are supposedly judged against themselves, and not others. 

 

Do people realy think if Noah never scored higher than a 25 he would have gone home sooner?  I don't.  He would have won last season if he was capable of more.  I don't think it took a lot of manipulation to get him into the finals.  I'm not arguing they didn't screw over Nastia, but the whole Derek/NYC situation didn't help matters and I don't think scoring Noah lower would have made any difference whatsoever.  If the judges had told Noah he sucked, it would have just egged the fans to vote for him that much more.  There are certain score manipulations that I think are ridiculous and actively effected the outcome (Chelsea Kane and her 15 extra points to get into the finals), but I think most scoring differentials are so tiny that it doesn't wind up making that much of a difference.

 

Nor do I think something like Allison's pregnancy annoucement bought Andy extra weeks.  If anything I've seen many people online railing they wanted Allison off the show because they were worried about her pregnant self harming her baby (ridiculous).   I don't doubt people were happy for Allison, but I doubt anyone besides her fans suddenly started voting for Andy because Allison was preggo.  Nor do I even think Andy even outstayed his welcome since he did his best dancing during his last few weeks on the show.

Edited November 5, 2015 by spanana

[boyznkatz]

Do people realy think if Noah never scored higher than a 25 he would have gone home sooner?  I don't.  

 

Not that it matters, but yeah, I think so. He was no better than Paula Deen, whom the judges had no problems giving 18's week after week. Since Nastia probably deserved at least a 27 for each of her dances, I think it would have made a difference. I'm not saying they needed to say he sucked. They could have praised his courage but pointed out they are judging the dances.

 

And some 70+ contestants were far better than younger ones. Tommy Chong got pretty good scores and he deserved them.