S05.E08: Birth

[mjgchick]

 

I think we should have two separate episode threads for these two entirely separate episodes. I have no interest in talking about the Bear King, although I have to ask, since I fastforwarded through a lot of it, did I miss the gay storyline? Wasn't there suppose to be something between Mulan and Ruby? Or was all this hype about Mulan admitting she was in love, which we aleady knew?

I think it's the beginning of their story. We'll probably see them again.

 

I am a ok with Hook being angry with Emma because he was not ok with her doing what she did but I don't think he means ending Emma. I think he meant Zelena. In the promo he does say something that breaks her heart so I think he does something to Zelena but then he breaks Frozen Emma's heart even more. Also Zelena was every Captain Swan shipper watching them break each others hearts in person.

 

Henry's basically been looking for a house by the ocean since S3 even after he got his memories back.

[HoodlumSheep]

I was only able to watch the first episode tonight, so the 2nd will have to wait until tomorrow.

birth:

AHSHSNSKZJDBANKSDHJAKENBS!!!!!!!

Is it in A&E's contract that they're only allowed to create 3ish good episodes in a season? Don't get me wrong, I have loved the Camelot season so far! It's just...could you imagine what Once could be like if they put this much effort into all the episodes???? Kudos to whoever wrote the episode!

Such a great episode! Like, I love almost everything about it, so just some points (my brain is still reeling!)

-The CS fluff was amazing!

-Captain Cobra and Operation Light Swan! *sobs*

-still love the Wicked King team up

-i loved how Zelean was pinned to the tree, but Arthur could easily tear through the bindings as if the stuff was one of those tissue paper streamers (you know, for parties and stuff)

-I found the Captain Wicked stuff to be refreshing. I liked their interactions.

-THIS is why I can't bring myself to like Regina anymore. She uses the word "friend" and then takes away Emma's agency with the dagger AGAIN to FORCE Emma to breakdown her own walls when she's NOT ready. Screw you Regina! Screw. You.

-Am I the only one who's concerned about where Lancelot (and I guess Grumpy) went? Belle has returned from her side trip, but where the heck is Lance????

-i didn't mind the baby stuff. It was handled better than I thought it would. At least it's over now.

-Killian died from a wound to the Neck!!!! Dang.

-Is Merlin a muggle now, or is he dead?

-I can see why Killian would be upset with Emma to a certain extant, with everything he's been through concerning the DO. Also, when your immortal, it kind of takes away from the whole "planning for the future" idea, imo. It would give it less meaning if they were forever mortal. But that's just my opinion.

Lastly, I am hereby decreeing that Do!Killy is to be named Darth Killy, because I think Colin would like that. i can just imagine Colin pretending to be Emperor Palpatine in those robes.

Also, I think Killy's sudden 180 at the end is a ruse to trick Zelena. Although, if they're both DO's they shouldn't have to worry about being able to take care of her. And according to the promo I've heard about on tumblr, I am a little concerned though, unless his definition of hurting Emma is to de-Dark himself.

Sorry, this got really long.

Edited November 16, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Actionmage]

Part of me thinks they aired these two due to the American Music Awards eating up one of "their" episode slots. The season finale is supposed to be in two weeks, so if not for the AMAs, they could have aired in the regular time. Still, the main cast absence would possibly earn more of an outraged reaction.

 

I was calling them Wolf Soldier, but if a better sounding name for Red and Mulan comes along... .

 

For the first hour:

* I generally go along with the 'let's not murder folks, okay?', it is Zelena. It's not like she's some innocent, like the baby she gave birth to tonight.

*Sweet! David Anders! With a goofy nod to his newish gig on the CW. He was fun and awww, he got tossed into a wall again.

*Captain Swan goodness, until it went weird. Still, I enjoyed the good we got and Hook's quilt-y seeming cloak.

*Shut up Regina and Snowing. Neither of you three know anything about Emma. Charming might come closest, but it's pretty sad how far he still seems to be.

*Considering the last Dark One shaped you since before your birth, Regina? Maybe you can't really put a scare into a Dark One.

 

I could go on, but I think they're more picky about the first hour.

 

The second hour?

*Merida has pretty, red hair. Lots of it. She also looks pretty in blue.

*I remember Granny talking about how she's had to fight her curse, so I guess that Red doesn't consider Granny "her kind" anymore because...?

*We had Snow and Red, in the same scene, being like, friends!! Oh, my heart, don't give out in surprise!

*Of course King Fergus didn't actually use the magic helm, Arthur is history's greatest monster ( tm Sarah D. Bunting) and The Witch was just helping her future queen with a Test of Leadership.  ::rolls eyes::

 

Do the writers actually know how to write a linear story? Did they internalize Pulp Fiction and decide to use that structure in every flippin' script? It is tired. It almost is an ex-gimmick. It is almost pining for the fjords.

 

I am glad that I have kept up through the boards; I think that's the only way I made it through tonight. I thought it was the usual half-season double dose finale. 

[YaddaYadda]

 

The only thing I didn't get about Hook was this...  How does having his memory removed remove the Dark One tendencies?  Is that really all it takes?  Can't they just make Emma forget everything from the end of 4B?

I thought that maybe it had to do with the question Emma asked about using magic to protect the people she loves, and Merlin's reply was about how maybe someday there will be someone who can hold that kind of magic without going bonkers.

 

Maybe that's what it has to do with. Hook has been behaving exactly the way he always has. And you'd think that he might do magic accidentally or something, but he hasn't. Emma feels the magic inside of her, but I guess he doesn't?

 

I have no idea how that works, but it seems the writers want Captain Swan to experience exactly the same thing. If she ever gets pregnant, maybe they'll have him be pregnant too.

[Ikki]

It seems like everyone was emotionally compromised by the first episode, but for me it was aiming to hard at the Captain Swan feels, of which I have none. No, instead it was the second hour that reminded me just how much I shipped Sleeping Warrior and punched me in the face.

[Rumsy4]

Oh man, what an episode! Best episode of the season, and sure to be one of my all time favorites!

 

Loved Emma talking Merlin into breaking the control of Excalibur, the way he helped her fight the Darkness.

 

Man--Hook had to be the hero and save the day, only to get hurt by Excalibur. I was weeping at the Diner scene when Hook collapsed and then at the Middlemist field. Poor Emma. My heart broke for her. And also for Killian when he asked her to go on and wanted to see her put Excalibur together before he died. It was so painful when he begged her not to turn him into DO because he feared wouldn't be able to resist the pull of Darkness.

 

Why wasn't Hook seeing Head!Rumple in Storybrooke? Shouldn't he have felt the pull of Darkness even if he forgot about being a DO? Nice twist that Emma was saving him so he wouldn't realize he was immortal.

 

Loved the glimpse of Dr. Whale. haha

 

I need to get this out of my system: FOR THE LAST TIME, ZELENA DIDN'T KILL NEAL. There...

 

I couldn't really focus on the second hour. Did like seeing Red and Mulan. Couldn't care less about Merida and the Dunbroch storyline. Odd choice to end the episode with her.

 

Theory time: Killian cast the Dark Curse in Camelot to keep Emma from reforging Excalibur because he couldn't resist the Darkness, but Emma added the memory spell so she could work in secret to save him. 

 

Gah! Now we have to wait for two weeks!!

[LizaD]

I saw that 2 DOs thing coming in the spoiler thread. Can we get a Mr. and Mrs. Smith type throwdown? Or the Dark Ones/Wicked adventure? I think the threesome could run the town. I'm torn on those scenes. On one hand I think it was too intimate a reveal to be shared with a 3rd party and would've been more emotional with just the 2 of them. On the other hand Zelena's commentary cracks me up.

 

I was afraid the Hook and Emma stuff was going to be too cheesy and it sort of was? But the actors made it work or something cause it didn't bother me.

 

Best line to Whale with his Oh so Emma can get a bad dye job but I'm getting ridiculed?

 

 

But now the tethering process turns someone into a Dark One

No. Merlin was turned into the DO line #2 when Arthur commanded him to do some dark things. He didn't kill anyone but maybe the HG magic is so pure that even attempting it corrupted his magic too. Emma untethered DO Merlin and put it in Hook. I better see some Head!Merlin stalking Hook around now. Although I guess he could be a voice of reason too.

 

 

Nobody cares about you, Merida. No one.

No kidding. I didn't even bother watching the 2nd episode even though I really want to see Red and Mulan. Will catch those clips on youtube later. Are there any scenes of them without the annoying brat Merida?

Edited November 16, 2015 by LizaD

[irisheyes]

OK, after a little reflection (and some chocolate), I'm beginning to think the Disney overlords have forced the show to use Merida. I can see it being a package deal to let them play with the shiny new Frozen toys last season. Because, honestly? Merida COULD be a fascinating character on her own, and I could see her interact well with Emma. But she's just shoehorned into this season where she just doesn't fit in. Camelot was enough for this season. Save Merida for another one.

Still heartbroken over Hook and Emma. And Zelena can NOT get off of my screen fast enough.

[Panopticon]

-THIS is why I can't bring myself to like Regina anymore. She uses the word "friend" and then takes away Emma's agency with the dagger AGAIN to FORCE Emma to breakdown her own walls when she's NOT ready. Screw you Regina! Screw. You.

Yes to this. Very much yes to this.

Hook's death in this episode also made me aggravated all over again about Emma being pushed to give into the Dark just a little when it was Robin in mortal peril. If it's Regina's boo Robin, everyone will pull together and find a way. But when it's Hook... Well, he can die nobly and Emma can get over it.

I should be grateful that Emma mentioned it. And I am. But also annoyed.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Panopticon

[pezgirl7]

No.  Mulan and Red made eye contact a few times, and Red landed on Mulan when she was dewolfed, but there was nothing that couldn't be completely platonic.  If this was the big girl/girl romance, it was decidedly nonromancey.  They decided to go on a quest or something together at the end of the episode, but since both of them have done that before without romance being involved, that doesn't really mean anything.

 

There wasn't much subtext, let alone text.

Thanks! I saw them making eyes, but it was right after Red turned back from being a wolf, so it could have been interpreted as amazement and curiosity. So I guess again, it was a possible more than friends situation that was left ambiguous.

I thought that when Emma tethered Hook to Excalibur and he said he wasn't strong enough to come back from the darkness, that Emma would somehow absorb ALL the darkness, which would be what made her go all dark. But I guess now they're just sharing the darkness? Kinda bummed since I wanted, and most fans speculated, that Hook would be the lightness to her darkness. Instead of Yin yang, they're yin yin now.

[KingOfHearts]

 

THIS is why I can't bring myself to like Regina anymore. She uses the word "friend" and then takes away Emma's agency with the dagger AGAIN to FORCE Emma to breakdown her own walls when she's NOT ready. Screw you Regina! Screw. You.

I don't really know what to think about Regina here. She was definitely in character, but she was not being a friend to Emma there. She was impatient and wanted to get things done already. If A&E weren't trying to shove the Swan Queen friendship down our throats, it wouldn't have been as grating as it would have been Regina just being Regina.

 

 

Are there any scenes of them without the annoying brat Merida?

There are a couple short ones.

Edited November 16, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

I see the seeds for Mulan Rouge, but if this is how they do an intentional textual romance, there's no way any other ship's subtext was intentional.

They can't, already asked much earlier today. Something with board rules when 2 episodes air the same night.

I kind of like it. I want to come back in a few years, if I'm still thinking about this show (which might not be likely at this point) and read this glorious snark.

 

So I was loving the first hour. But I have questions:

 

1. What was in the snow globe that Rumple was looking at? Killian left the store with it, but I didn't notice it again. What was that? A dark one trinket?

I think something got lost on the cutting room floor.

[Souris]

I feel like I just went from eating at an amazing 5-star restaurant to eating a TV dinner that’s been left out for three days.

 

 

LOL. I couldn't even remotely tell you what happened in the second ep because I wasn't paying attention. That ep was such a throwaway. I perked up for the Snow/Red scene, and thought that Hot Scot Lord Macintosh should be playing

Hercules

instead. Other than that, MEH.

 

The first ep -- WOW. There were things I liked and things I didn't. I had tears streaming down my face when Hook was dying, not gonna lie. I didn't care for Emma equating telling Hook she loved him with telling Neal the same thing. Colin & Jen knocked it out of the park with their acting.

 

Really cold that Emma was planning to put the Darkness in Zelena and then kill her. Although I certainly want Zelena to go away, too.

 

I do not understand why Hook wouldn't have exhibited some Dark One tendencies in SB, even without knowing he was a Dark One. I saw a theory that Emma was controlling him not to be Dark with the sword, but I don't know. It just didn't make sense that he'd suddenly go SO Dark the second he knew he was a Dark One.

 

They went out of their way to make Hook's past way more dark than we knew in this ep, so he'll be VERY Dark as a Dark One. -_-

 

Whale isn't going to deliver any more babies. He gets knocked out every time.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Souris

[Mari]

I don't really know what to think about Regina here. She was definitely in character, but she was not being a friend to Emma there. She was impatient and wanted to get things done already. If A&E weren't trying to shove the Swan Queen friendship down our throats, it wouldn't have as grating as it would have been Regina just being Regina.

 

There are a couple short ones.

Yes.  Very much yes.

 

 

Why wasn't Hook seeing Head!Rumple in Storybrooke? Shouldn't he have felt the pull of Darkness even if he forgot about being a DO? Nice twist that Emma was saving him so he wouldn't realize he was immortal.

 

 

Theory time: Killian cast the Dark Curse in Camelot to keep Emma from reforging Excalibur because he couldn't resist the Darkness, but Emma added the memory spell so she could work in secret to save him. 

Good point--Hook should have been seeing imaginary Dark Ones tempting him to be evil.

 

Also, when Emma first became the Dark One, didn't she accidently do magic?  Without realizing it?  Where was Hook's spontaneous, unintentional magic?

 

I don't see how Hook--unpossessed Hook--could have cast the curse.  Emma's still alive.

[Mockingbird]

Yes, show. Follow up a ton of plot development (even if a lot of that plot development doesn't make the most sense) and a huge twist with an hour of fairly meaningless subplot filled with side characters. Though it's possible the Merida episode would have been even more infuriating if we had to wait a week to learn absolutely nothing about what's happening with Hook.

[KingOfHearts]

I think I understand now why Hook's dark tendencies weren't showing - the curse. Mr. Gold wasn't dark before his memories came back in 1x01. You need memories for dark magic to work, just like how you need memories to TLK. That's why Emma was keeping it from him.

 

 

I hope Merlin is not dead and he just no longer has magical powers. He's another one I felt bad for in the first episode.

His fate seemed to be intentionally ambiguous here.

 

 

I better see some Head!Merlin stalking Hook around now.

This is likely because Emma used Merlin's darkness. Dark Swan is fueled by Nimue's darkness, as well as all the other Dark Ones' in the line before her.

Edited November 16, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

I felt bad for Emma. Her telling him "You can't leave." Yikes that punched me in the gut. It's just one to many loved ones died in her arms. And then Killian telling Emma he isn't as strong as she is. (He's such a Team Emma member.) He's to weak unlike her was so sad. Also him telling her how he got all those rings and then she shows him the ring Liam gave him, I just knew it was going to end with him dying because he didn't have the ring.

 

I hope Merlin is not dead and he just no longer has magical powers. He's another one I felt bad for in the first episode.

 

 

 

I think I understand now why Hook's dark tendencies weren't showing - the curse. Mr. Gold wasn't dark before his memories came back in 1x01.

Bingo. Rumple was as human as everyone else before the Dark Curse got lifted.

Edited November 16, 2015 by mjgchick

[gik910]

I think I understand now why Hook's dark tendencies weren't showing - the curse. Mr. Gold wasn't dark before his memories came back in 1x01.

I could be wrong- but didn't he always have the memories of the EF but was playing dumb for Regina.  A&E have always blurred that line of what Gold knew. I would say the Mr. Gold did have some very dark tenancies-even without his DO memories. He was selling babies, being a ruthless landlord, and essentially a mobster in SB...

Edited November 16, 2015 by gik910

[Ikki]

I see the seeds for Mulan Rouge, but if this is how they do an intentional textual 

Thank you for reminding me of the ship name "Mulan Rouge;" I was wasting my time referring to it as "Red Warrior" when clearly the other is superior.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I could be wrong- but didn't he always have the memories of the EF but was playing dumb for Regina.  I would say the Mr. Gold did have some very dark tendancies-even with out his DO memories. He was selling babies and essentially a mobster in SB...

He sold the baby after getting his memories back. A&E confirmed once that Gold did not get his memories back until Emma mentioned her name in 1x01. In 2x17 and 3x10, he's memory-less.

 

 

I think it was that his memories came back when Emma came to town and he heard her name. That's why pre-curse, in the Snowing's dungeon Rumple was all like, "I NEED HER NAME!!!"

And why he scribbled it in squid ink a thousand times on the scroll.

 

 

One could argue that Emma forcing darkness into Hook against his free will, especially when Emma knows how much Hook hates The Dark One and spent hundreds of years thinking it was his biggest enemy, is slightly evil-leaning.

It's one of those scenarios where I understand why she did it, but it doesn't exactly make it right either. She was pulling a reverse Nimue - making Hook immortal so they could be together forever and turning him dark in the process. I wouldn't call it evil but I wouldn't call it noble either. I thought her instant change into the Dark Swan costume was a bit jarring.

Edited November 16, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Ikki]

I could be wrong- but didn't he always have the memories of the EF but was playing dumb for Regina.  I would say the Mr. Gold did have some very dark tendancies-even with out his DO memories. He was selling babies and essentially a mobster in SB...

I think it was that his memories came back when Emma came to town and he heard her name. That's why pre-curse, in the Snowing's dungeon Rumple was all like, "I NEED HER NAME!!!"

[gik910]

I think it was that his memories came back when Emma came to town and he heard her name. That's why pre-curse, in the Snowing's dungeon Rumple was all like, "I NEED HER NAME!!!"

Gothcha. It was so long ago :) (Even if I did a rewatch over the summer...)

 

Well- from the way everyone behaved around him prior to them getting their memories I would still say Gold was not a good man.  He might have gotten his memories back in the meantime- but he had set up the baby deal pre-Emma coming to SB.  That was 1x4 and she Ella was at the point of giving birth- it takes time to forge good papers and what not...

Edited November 16, 2015 by gik910

[mjgchick]

So why is Emma upset at her parents and Regina? Snow was devastated seeing Killian dying so it can't be about him. Unless they haven't done the thing yet.

[Shanna Marie]

I think I understand now why Hook's dark tendencies weren't showing - the curse. Mr. Gold wasn't dark before his memories came back in 1x01.

He didn't have magic to be that level of dark, but he wasn't by any means a good man. He was the landlord who had power over the town, and everyone was afraid of him. Remember the scene at Granny's where he was there to collect the rent when Emma first took a room. He didn't get his memories back until that point, and Granny was already afraid of him. He was acting with quiet menace. It's a far cry from Hook being probably the best he's been since before Liam died.

[InsertWordHere]

I think I understand now why Hook's dark tendencies weren't showing - the curse. Mr. Gold wasn't dark before his memories came back in 1x01. You need memories for dark magic to work, just like how you need memories to TLK. That's why Emma was keeping it from him.

That makes sense, and I agree that this is probably the right answer, but there was also no magic in Storybrooke at the time. This situation is slightly different. Also, we've seen so little of memory-cursed Gold (before he heard Emma's name) that it's hard to tell how different he is from our Gold. There was no noticeable difference in his personality between his scene with Regina in Welcome to Storybrooke and Season one after Emma arrives.

[mjgchick]

He didn't have magic to be that level of dark, but he wasn't by any means a good man. He was the landlord who had power over the town, and everyone was afraid of him. Remember the scene at Granny's where he was there to collect the rent when Emma first took a room. He didn't get his memories back until that point, and Granny was already afraid of him. He was acting with quiet menace. It's a far cry from Hook being probably the best he's been since before Liam died.

But didn't he asked Regina to give him that power without having magic before she did the curse? He was basically the Sonny Corinthos of Storybrooke. He just didn't have his memories until Emma said her name.

[YaddaYadda]

So why is Emma upset at her parents and Regina? Snow was devastated seeing Killian dying so it can't be about him. Unless they haven't done the thing yet.

Honestly, I think it had to do with them not helping/not wanting to help. Because Emma mentioned how Regina pushed her to save Robin's life, so why can't it be the same for Hook? And she does have a point. I think this is where her line from 5x02 (now life is precious to you) came back into play.

[KingOfHearts]

 

He didn't have magic to be that level of dark, but he wasn't by any means a good man. He was the landlord who had power over the town, and everyone was afraid of him. Remember the scene at Granny's where he was there to collect the rent when Emma first took a room. He didn't get his memories back until that point, and Granny was already afraid of him. He was acting with quiet menace. It's a far cry from Hook being probably the best he's been since before Liam died.

I think it just the curse's interpretation of his personality. Regina set all that up and probably wanted to keep him closer to his norm in case she needed to use him in some way. If he has a similar personality, she can know how to work him. With the 5A curse, Emma's desires were that everyone remained as they were prior to walking into Camelot. I bet the curse put Zelena back in her mute hand-maiden outfit and anti-magic brace as well.

 

 

There was no noticeable difference in his personality between his scene with Regina in Welcome to Storybrooke and Season one after Emma arrives.

It's more about goals than personality, I'd say. Hook's only objective was saving Emma and he put everything into it. Now that the darkness is activated from his awareness, his impulses will show. He could not be tempted by the darkness because the magic required his memories to work.

Edited November 16, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[scenicbyway]

So, why is Emma full sparkly Dark One but Hook isn't. He hasn't used dark magic yet? A memory curse means you aren't a Dark One until you get your memories back?

I hated "Birth". Loved seeing the depth of their love, that Hook picked out the house for them. Kinda hated everything else. Snow, Charming, Regina fail. Huge fail, they were really there to save Zelena? Do they care about Emma or perhaps Hook at all?

What was the point of throwing down Excalibur in the front yard? Why can only 2 names be on the sword? I just think it's ridiculous for the 2 characters who have come the furthest to be set back like this. Are we supposed to find them fighting in the next episode entertaining? There's no way this ends happily because Hook dies without the tethering.

What's the point of Arthur anyway? Does he want to be a Dark One?

I had high hopes but they were fairly dashed tonight.

[chrisvee]

So Rumple gets a free pass with a clean heart but Hook gets darkness forced into him? Awesome show.

[Rumsy4]

For the Merida episode I did enjoy it but like others said it was not the right time to air it. Snow had a longer conversation with Red than she's had with her daughter all season long.

 

That's just so sad. And what was with Snow declaring that there was no longer any Emma, when she hasn't even tried talking to Dark Swan? 

With that being said, I am completely confused by Hook's 180 turn at the very end because it seemed incredibly out of character, even if he is technically a Dark One. That better be a bait and switch and he's playing Zelena or something.

 

Yeah--that was way too harsh/painful. I get him being angry at being turned the DO, but he would never team up with Zelena to hurt Emma. I hope he was playing Zelena in that scene.

I don't see how Hook--unpossessed Hook--could have cast the curse.  Emma's still alive.

 

I think either Emma or Hook channeled Nimue to cast the Dark Curse. That's why they had Emma tell Merlin that Nimue still loved him. 

 

That twist of Arthur killing Fergus was ridiculous. It made Arthur seem like a comic book villian.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Rumsy4

[HoodlumSheep]

Maybe Hook's sudden 180-ness (after knowing he's Darth Killy for all of 2 seconds) will be explained in the 3 weeks we have left in Camelot.

I hope they explain the random snow globe.

I hope a&E don't screw up CS. I mean it was bound to happen sooner or later, but I can hope it works out.

Promo: Darth Killy wants vengeance against Rumple?? I'm down with that; sadly I'm bummed that it'll probably be used to make Hook look bad and to prop up Rumple. :(

[Actionmage]

Snow, Charming, Regina fail. Huge fail, they were really there to save Zelena? Do they care about Emma or perhaps Hook at all?

 

Iirc, their dialogue made them seem to think Emma was going to extinguish Light Magic, yet they were going to save Zelena from Emma. Then, when Regina issued her standard " I get first dibs on destroying [X]!" speech,Snow  was all "Stay away from her you bitch!" Then, when Emma showed up and Regina twigged to the plan, everyone was busy being "Whaaaaa?" and got frozen. Snow and David were fully intending to stop whatever was going down, no matter who. Be it Zelena from Emma or Emma from Regina/ both Mills sisters. I do think that no one knew Killian was there, so no one was storming the house for him, but maybe David would have been concerned if he had known.

[Proteus]

I really hate where they've taken Captain Swan, Like, really hate it.

[ABitOFluff]

I don't really know what to think about Regina here. She was definitely in character, but she was not being a friend to Emma there. She was impatient and wanted to get things done already. If A&E weren't trying to shove the Swan Queen friendship down our throats, it wouldn't have been as grating as it would have been Regina just being Regina.

Regina was a complete asshole in that scene. It's one thing to get your friend to confront their fears, but you do it in a supportive manner over drinks or something, not wielding a dagger that removes their free will. But then, Regina just seems to be that kind of friend. Jesus, I'd hate for her to throw me a milestone birthday party.

[Lexx]

But didn't he asked Regina to give him that power without having magic before she did the curse? He was basically the Sonny Corinthos of Storybrooke. He just didn't have his memories until Emma said her name.

 

A GH reference in a Once thread?  You've made my night.  Especially after that second hour.

[InsertWordHere]

A GH reference in a Once thread?  You've made my night.  Especially after that second hour.

Haha I still remember the crypt sex comparisons last season :)

[Mathius]

OK, the rest of the arc is predictable now: Hook is gonna be playing the villain but the big twist is that he's still a hero and his goal in going after Emma is actually to take the darkness out of her so that all the darkness is in him, and then make Emma kill him.....basically, he's planning for himself what Emma had planned for Zelena.  He doesn't want Emma to die, nor does he want her to be a cold-blooded murderer, so this is the only way.

[YaddaYadda]

Haha I still remember the crypt sex comparisons last season :)

I'm pretty convinced that's where Once got their idea. They really shouldn't aim so low.

[Mathius]

Also, the gay story between Red and Mulan is only starting, A&E confirmed them for 5B already.

Edited November 16, 2015 by aquarian1
Added spoiler tags

[Lieutenant]

Welp, I'm having trouble forming coherent thoughts at the moment, and am instead trying to scrape myself and my battered emotions off the floor.  "Birth" was a hell of an episode.  When you leave it feeling like you've been put through the emotional wringer + physically wiped out, that's the sign of a fantastic episode.  I've gotta decompress.  The only thing I can remotely scratch together is Liam's ring.  I KNEW IT WAS HIS.  I KNEW IT!!  And that just caused me more pain.  I hope we get more backstory on why it's such an important object.

 

I had "Bear King" on the tv, but hell if I can tell you a blessed thing about it.  Didn't watch a lick of it, and didn't miss out judging by what y'all are saying.

[OnceUponAJen]

The only thing I can think of with Killian's 180 towards Emma in the ep is that he's pretending to side with Zelena in order to protect Emma from her.

However, in the promo, with Hook wanting to fight Rumple now that their power structure is reversed, it seems that is he coming from a place of anger.

Edited November 16, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[superjengirl]

Woohoo, talk about a cliffhanger! I can't wait to see Dark Hook next week. I wonder what will happen next.

I'm kinda ready for the show to turn Emma into a swan; maybe, we can get some lion king or other non-human stories. It would be interesting if they were. I assume since her last name is Swan that she's the Swan Princess.

Omg, I realized why Merida was annoying me from the Belle/Merida story. They paired her up with the wrong girl to buddy up. Belle and Anna worked because they are similar girly girl. Sorry, Once Belle annoys me. Merida works better in a storyline with Emma, Snow, Ruby, or Mulan because they are the same...strong, smart women who kick asses. I enjoyed the Merida/Ruby/Mulan trio.

[YaddaYadda]

Question...

 

When Merlin was freed from the tree, and Arthur threatened him with the sword, Merlin told him to put it away, and how they both knew the sword couldn't hurt him.

 

Tonight though, a cut on Hook, and he's basically about to die. The broken sword can't hurt Merlin because he's immortal, or is that a fuck up from the writers?

[pezgirl7]

The only plus for me about Regina using the dagger on Emma was that it put another check in the CS column over SQ. Hook was able to get Emma to confess what she was thinking and ignite the spark by just talking to her. Regina says she finally knows Emma, and then proceeds to take away Emma's agency. What an amazing friend she is!

Has anyone yet mentioned that Robin now has a baby girl?! No? Yea, didn't think so.

[superjengirl]

The Merida/Ruby/Mulan trio paralleled wonderfully with the Charming/Hook/Robin trio.

[Shanna Marie]

Honestly, I think it had to do with them not helping/not wanting to help. Because Emma mentioned how Regina pushed her to save Robin's life, so why can't it be the same for Hook? And she does have a point. I think this is where her line from 5x02 (now life is precious to you) came back into play.

Yeah, although they were upset and sad, they were definitely coming in on the side of "you have to let him die," which she might resent, even though Hook himself agreed with them. It's not quite so bad with her parents, but Regina was being a bit of a hypocrite when she asked Emma to risk giving in to the darkness in order to save Robin, even though she was previously telling Emma not to use her magic at all.

 

You know, these were very frustrating episodes to watch with a bad case of laryngitis. Yelling at the TV is no fun if you don't make any sound when you do so.

[CatMack]

You know, I will give Adam and Eddie this - they said in an interview before the ep aired that the title, Birth, would refer to Zelena's pregnancy but also have another meaning.  I was like, yeah, OK, this is the ep where we see Emma embrace the darkness and it's the birth of Dark Swan, the press release basically telegraphed that anyway.  But I did not see it coming that it would mean the birth of Dark One Killian.  I knew from spoiler pics he would have some relation to the sword, but I didn't know it happened back in Camelot.  That genuinely surprised me.  I don't think the mythology of it makes a lick of sense, but what the hell, I judge this show on one hell of a bell curve.  

[FierceAfroChick]

I am both intrigued and worried about my babies. I think two lovers possibly battling each other is hot and angsty and have no doubt that love will conquer all in the end. It's not ideal, but it doesn't have to taint all the goodness that came before. At least Hook hasn't knocked up another woman. However, I'd feel a lot better if Jane Espensen handled Dark Captain Swan because I don't trust the others not to muck it up and miss some good nuance.

[fuzzysneakers]

So Hook is a Dark One now? That's just GREAT! All i can say his he better be dressed in some incredibly hot and sexy leather Dark One gear, or this new twist is really going to suck for me.