B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[Waldo13]

Do you know what the worst part of the momma baby drama?  It's the shit ass acting. I saw more emotion on the faces of the Borg. Wow, Zende actually gave permission for Nicole to speak to her father.  In my world, fathers are more important than husbands. Husbands come and go, fathers are forever.  Yes, Nicole's pet rock tried to roll down the hill, on Julius, but like Sisyphus, that rock's ass was kicked back to the top of the hill. Zende, what would you have done if Antonio and Kristen didn't want to raise another person's child. STFU Zende, and go gather some moss.  Yes Zende, Rick and Maya watch Lizzy every waking moment unless she was with the nanny. 

[TobinAlbers]

31 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Zende couldn't even divorce his way out of the situation because Rick is his uncle and Lizzie is his first cousin.

Maybe if he also threw holy water + bleach + fire at everyone he'd have a chance?

32 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Lizzie she could always hit him with the "You ain't my daddy"

This scene happening with toddler Lizzie wearing lip gloss and in a bad Nicole wig might make it all worth it.

You make a LOT of good emotional points from Zende's POV. I can see him wanting blood family for himself being an orphan himself. Even though he was adopted he wants to create a family of his own. As pigheaded as he went about expressing his issues and then compounding the issue by running to Sasha's arms, Zende had good points about how complicated this situation would be for everyone down the line. Although I also thought it was hilarious how after a handful of months dating, Zende and Nicole were acting like they were a supercouple who had been together for years and overcome so many obstacles and were robbed of time together. They barely knew each other and were making all these future family plans. Nicole wasn't even fully in her 20s and had not had a serious sexual relationship.

WTH they couldn't be a couple and go on adventures and traveling like they originally said they wanted to do, I don't understand. I could see Nicole getting baby rabies if she had gotten pregnant on the Honeymoon, there'd be drama about having a baby so soon into the marriage only to for her to lose it shortly thereafter and she then learns she can't have children. Then it would make sense for her to suddenly be faced -unexpectedly-with the knowledge that planning a biological family for later ain't in the cards.

[TigerLynx]

41 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Rick & Maya probably can't adopt through an agency because of Maya's criminal history, which Rick knew about before he married her.

Rick and Maya have the money to pay for a private adoption if they wanted to go that route.  Rick and Maya had the money to afford a surrogate other than Nicole.  Rick and Maya are the selfish brain dead idiots who have been driving this car off a cliff from day one by pressuring a young teenage girl to be their surrogate, and then wanting Nicole to be their surrogate for a second time as well.

[Gudzilla]

Fair is fair, it's time for half naked Saul and Grams.

[Carlylefan]

I don't think it is possible for me to care less about the Lizzie story.  It's a cure for insomnia.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Carlylefan

[La di Diva]

Oh my what woke ZZende up today.  He wasn't on fire, but was definitely sparking -- bringing his B+ game.

Seriously it has to be acting with OB, who elevates everyone in a scene.

That was a nice little confrontation between  ZZende, Jul-Iago and Maya.  I think Zende's anger was spurred by his unspoken thought that Jul-IAgo was insulting his mother by saying she isn't really his mother because she didn't physically give birth.

This seems to be both Nicole's and Julius' point --  no physically birth =/= not a mother.  Probably why neither of them bring up that Nicole could  use her egg/Zende sperm + gestational surrogate and voila -- motherhood.  Thinking that, neither of them consider Maya to be Lizzie's mother, and of course Julius will always think of her as his embarrassment son Myron in a dress.

Please let someone nastily and publically remind Julius that for all his "protection" of Nic he isn't, wasn't and never will be father of the year because of his abandonment and shaming of Sasha (not to mention Maya).

[Gam2]

As I said previously, giving birth does not make you a mother. Loving and raising a child, day to day with all of the ups and downs, etc is what makes you a mother. Shut the hell up, Julius and Nicole. Where the hell is Vivian? This needs to be shut down now. It is NOT INTERESTING, writers. Nicole is about to fall out in a dead faint from lack of emotion. She's the worst actress I've ever seen. Zzzzende seems to be acteen, finally, with this story arc. 

[grisgris]

Well, well, somebody's been taking some acting classes.  Why do I have the feeling that OB dragged RF aside and gave him some much-needed advice and rehearsed the hell out of that scene? I'm not saying it was an Emmy-worthy performance by any means but you don't go (yes!) from ZZZzzzzende to Zende overnight.  He had to have had some major coaching but I was minorly impressed by the effort put forth today.

The line that bugged me the most was "I wanted your firstborn child to be MINE!" (paraphrasing...) Seriously? Who writes this crap? Old white men in their 70s?  I think that told it like it is. True. Zende might be thinking about establishing roots for a family of his own but he certainly isn't communicating it clearly. All I'm picking up is a very chauvinistic, archaic, possessive way of thinking. It's jarring and completely out-of-character for a millennial in the fashion biz in L.A. to be thinking. Actually, I'm disappointed that he and Nicole are even married.  They are both far too young and inexperienced -- looking at you, Nicole.  At least he's now making a bit more sense in "what's the rush?" Indeed. As newlyweds, they should be out having fun, traveling honing their career skills, etc.  This babies rabies garbage is nonsense.

Wow! I really hate Julius and that is because OB is so awesome in portraying him. Well, another bulls-eye. He's pissed at Myron/Maya for her lifestyle choices and is going to unfairly use his other daughter and granddaughter to punish her for dashing his dreams. I am glad that Zende read him for filth and stood up for Maya. I wish Vivienne would step in.  First, to shut this shit down for good and because AMH is actually able to coax something out of RE.  I'd take tears, anger, throw something, yell, anything ... than the blank dead stare and pouty bottom lip. Well, actually, I'd prefer nothing in that I'd rather not see this SL for a good week or so (preferably longer.)

[TigerLynx]

I agree loving and raising a child is what makes someone a parent.  However, physically any woman who carries and gives birth to a child will have some bond with that child.  They will have all the hormones, worries, joys, etc. that goes along with being pregnant.  Which is why it is recommended that a surrogate be someone who is in their late 20s to late 30s, has already had their own children, or has decided they don't want children, and are mature enough to know what they are doing.  It's also why couples who are adopting are advised of all the rights biological parents have if they decide not to go through with the adoption, and keep the baby.

I don't have any sympathy for Rick and Maya because they are the dimwits who bullied a teenage girl into being a surrogate for them.

Julius is a jackass, but the actor is doing a good job, and this is a realistic reaction that some people still living in the dark ages have.

Edited June 23, 2017 by TigerLynx

[drivethroo]

16 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Rick and Maya have the money to pay for a private adoption if they wanted to go that route.  Rick and Maya had the money to afford a surrogate other than Nicole.  Rick and Maya are the selfish brain dead idiots who have been driving this car off a cliff from day one by pressuring a young teenage girl to be their surrogate, and then wanting Nicole to be their surrogate for a second time as well.

Which is why Zende shouldn't have to pay for Rick & Maya's poor life decisions & selfish choices.  Or Nicole's.  Rick & Maya were selfish for asking Nicole to be their surrogate, Rick & Maya were selfish for pressuring Nicole to give them another baby a year later, Nicole was selfish for considering it again* without taking Zende's feelings into consideration and Nicole is being selfish again by entertaining the thought of keeping Lizzie without taking Zende's feelings into consideration. Everyone in this situation is acting selfishly but somehow Zende wanting his own bio-child is the most egregious offense.

 

14 hours ago, Gam2 said:

Where the hell is Vivian? This needs to be shut down now.

Apparently at work.  This situation won't get shut down until Vivian is clued in and shuts it down.

 

13 hours ago, grisgris said:

Why do I have the feeling that OB dragged RF aside and gave him some much-needed advice and rehearsed the hell out of that scene? I'm not saying it was an Emmy-worthy performance by any means but you don't go (yes!) from ZZZzzzzende to Zende overnight.  He had to have had some major coaching but I was minorly impressed by the effort put forth today.

Sometimes you need good actors around you to step your game up.  Who has the actor playing Zende had to play off of to really get him to step his game up? The actress playing Nicole?

 

*Wasn't Nicole checked out by the gynecologist when she agreed to be Rick & Maya's surrogate for the second time and was about to be implanted? How come the gynecologist didn't find the scarring issue then?  If the scarring issue wasn't there when the doctor examined her for Rick/Maya surrogacy 2.0, but is there now, would that mean the 1st pregnancy isn't the reason for the scarring and that something else is going on? Nicole could have endometriosis or fibroids (very common among African American women).

[nkotb]

29 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Which is why Zende shouldn't have to pay for Rick & Maya's poor life decisions & selfish choices.  Or Nicole's.  Rick & Maya were selfish for asking Nicole to be their surrogate, Rick & Maya were selfish for pressuring Nicole to give them another baby a year later, Nicole was selfish for considering it again* without taking Zende's feelings into consideration and Nicole is being selfish again by entertaining the thought of keeping Lizzie without taking Zende's feelings into consideration. Everyone in this situation is acting selfishly but somehow Zende wanting his own bio-child is the most egregious offense.

 

*Wasn't Nicole checked out by the gynecologist when she agreed to be Rick & Maya's surrogate for the second time and was about to be implanted? How come the gynecologist didn't find the scarring issue then?  If the scarring issue wasn't there when the doctor examined her for Rick/Maya surrogacy 2.0, but is there now, would that mean the 1st pregnancy isn't the reason for the scarring and that something else is going on? Nicole could have endometriosis or fibroids (very common among African American women).

Really good point about Nicole recently being checked out by the gynecologist & being cleared for Raya Baby #2. I had forgotten that, but, apparently, so did the writers & actors.

Bolded the Zende part, because for me, it's not that wanting a bio-child is wrong, I totally get that. To me, it seems like he's so dead-set on having a bio-child, which very possibly may not happen, that he's kinda got his head in the clouds about Nicole possibly not being able to have a bio-child with him. I completely understand that he's never known anyone else who shares his blood, so it makes sense that he'd love that IF it could happen. My issue is that the doctor told them that they likely won't have bio-children, & as someone who is adopted, & can most certainly afford to adopt (which many people can't) it doesn't make sense to me that he hasn't even considered it. 

@drivethroo, really good points from Zende's perspective. It really does suck that Nicole didn't take Zende's feeling into consideration when she got pregnant with Lizzie, & she certainly isn't taking them into consideration now with maybe/maybe not signing the adoption papers. All of his concerns about the potential problems that could arise from Nicole having the Raya baby are coming true, yet she still isn't taking his feelings into consideration. In fairness, Julius voiced concerns at the very beginning, which are also coming true, but he's being such a jackass about it that it's hard to credit him. 

Even though pretty well everyone in this storyline is unlikable, it certainly has all of us talking!

[CountryGirl]

Recap for Thursday, 6/22/2017:

At SF, a very sweaty Thomas and Sally continue to kiss and canoodle and I'm sorry, it is too damn hot for that.

Thomas' face seems a more natural shade of tan but the rest of him? Still Oompa Loompa.

Sally steps over to the big fan I noticed earlier to cool off and pulls back her blouse in the process.

Sally: "Oh, that feels good."

Thomas: "Glad it's cooling you off, because it's having the opposite effect on me."

Sally smiles to herself: "Well, Darlita found an air conditioning company that can fix our old system."

Thomas: "Nope. Tell them to send it back." Okay, that was cute.

Sally: "I bet this kind of thing never happened over at Forrester." 

Thomas: "You would be surprised the things that happened at Forrester." Just in the steam room alone.

Thomas mentions problems with the elevator, which reminds me of this:

Sally asks if FC ever had trouble paying their power bills or rent, knowing the answer to that already and Thomas confirms when he shares they didn't. Not even in the early days, not with the Douglas gravy train pouring in.

Thomas: "And neither will Spectra once we get this line out and going, and orders are gonna be rolling through like crazy. I meant what I said earlier. There is no place that I would rather be than here with you." Oh come on, Thomas, you'd rather be at a pool or the ocean or your nice, cool loft. With Sally, of course.

Sally takes a moment to admire the new logo again, but tells Thomas Saul is worried about all of the new (and expensive) changes for SF.

Thomas: "Would he be this concerned if it was you giving all the changes?"

Sally: "He might be a teensy bit jealous of you." I'd say a lot more than "teensy."

Thomas: "Yeah. We're all working together. This can't be happening."

Sally: "Hey, he will come around."

Thomas, mock-threateningly: "Or I could just have a little chat with him, and he'll come around real quick."

Sally, looks at herself and then back at a shirtless Thomas: "I don't think -- I don't think today with the, you know..."

Sally: "Yeah. But hey, look, don't worry about Saul. Or Grams. They love this company as much as I do and they really do want to see it succeed. But to do that, we are going to have to make some changes. We're not a knockoff shop anymore. We're doing this right. You bring the Forrester influence and style. We can turn this battleship into a luxury liner. It's gonna be amazing. And none of this could have happened without you."

They chat about Coco and what might have been and how she would love for her to work at SF, but Sally reasons that Coco is doing her own thing at FC and she's happy for her. 

Sally: "I mean, yeah, obviously, like, don't get me wrong. It would be great to have her here and share this with her and redeem myself."

Thomas: "Coco forgave you...I forgave you...You need to forgive yourself." They both know she's still struggling with that last one.

Sally: "I just really feel like I need to make up for how I betrayed you both."

Thomas: "No, stop saying that. We gave Spectra a whole new start. You deserve one, too."

Sally is touched: "Well, thank you."

She leans in to thank him properly and he's all too happy to oblige her.

Thomas pulls back after a few moment: "You keep thanking me."

Sally smiling up at him: "In as many ways as I know how."

 

Thomas: "And I love all of them. But do you ever think that I should be thanking you?"

Sally is perplexed, scoffing: "I didn't bail out your company."

Thomas: "You inspired me to step out of my comfort zone and challenge myself. Babe (I love when he calls her "babe), I hadn't been happy at Forrester in ages.  I was frustrated and I was aggressive and angry and... when I came here and felt the energy with you... on the day of your first preview while you guys were waiting for the review, yes, it didn't go the way that you were anticipating, but  that excitement, that was exhilarating to me, and it made me remember why I fell in love with this business in the first place. You made me remember that. That's the reason I fell in love with you. You are this incredible and fearless and so sexy. You're why Spectra is unique. And you're the reason I'm here. You saved me. Thank you." It's as stirring a declaration of love as I've ever heard.

He kisses her, all thoughts of the broken AC forgotten.

Now, on to the main fireworks. Not that Tally aren't hot as hell (literally!), but two days of them stuck in an office when they can do so much more is kind of criminal. They did make the most of the no-AC office/plot contrivance because I would watch them sit on the desk and read the phonebook.

But for today's episode, it's nice to see that everyone brought their A game (well, B+ as was mentioned upthread for RF) except, of course, RE. Because she gets a big fat "F" from me. F as in Failed. F as in Flat. F as in Fish (as in a dead fish). FF as in Fast Forward through her painful scenes. F as in Fucking Terrible. F as in Fire (as in TPTB should do that and recast).

So I'll try to dispense with her as quickly as possible so you don't all F as in Fall Asleep. ;-)

In the design office at FC, Zende attempts to get Nicole to see reason but how he could tell the difference, I don't know.

Zende: "Let's think about Lizzy for a moment."

Nicole: "I am." That may be, but mostly, she's thinking about Nicole.

Zende, gently: "Look, you and Lizzy will always share a special connection. No one will ever take that away from you. But understand that Rick and Maya also share a bond with her. They've been raising that little girl. Look...I know it's been hard. But Lizzy will always be a part of your life...But not as your daughter."

Sensing his wife still sees things different, he tries a different approach, of what the reality would look like because it's pretty clear that Nicole hasn't seen past anything other than holding a cooing Lizzie and hearing her say "Mama."

Zende: "I need you to be strong, babe. Understand what it is that you're doing.

Nicole: "I told you, I can't explain all that I'm feeling." Does she even have a pulse? 

Zende: "You don't have to. I know. But part of you knows that this isn't right." She gives him a look. Or something. "Okay. All right, fine. All right, say we don't sign the papers. Now what? We run away with Lizzy? We leave our jobs, our family, everything that we worked hard for -- we leave it behind. I mean, you know we wouldn't be welcomed here anymore. Think about what this would do to your relationship with your sister. Think about Lizzy, the bond that Maya and Rick, they've created together. Babe, you can't forget the reason why you agreed to do the surrogacy in the first place. Now, that news we got, look, I know -- I know what it's doing to you. Hell, I know what it's doing to me. But you know hanging on to Lizzy like this, it's not the right way to stop it."

He reassures her that they'll have their own family someday.

Nicole proves she wasn't even listening to him, saying she can't do it for them and thinks Lizzy was her only chance at motherhood.

Zende forces her to look at him: "You stop that. You can. Look, I know you've heard those stories of people who've been told that they can't have children and then they do. Right? Couples who have been trying for years, trying everything, they finally accept it, then boom, they're pregnant. And nobody knows why! Hell, maybe they stopped stressing about it. Look, Nicole, we have so much time ahead of us, so many years. You'll get pregnant when the time is right."

Nicole: "If I sign those papers, it is like I am saying 'no.' I'm turning down the chance to be a mother to my own baby. I am Lizzy's biological mother. We're connected. That is what I have been feeling. Even my dad sees it."

Zende's eyebrows raise: "You've been talking to your father about this?" Clearly, he doesn't approve...and for good reason.

Nicole: "I told him about what the doctor said and the adoption papers. And maybe he's right. Maybe this isn't just a clerical error. Maybe this happened for a reason." 

Zende: "Look, I don't think it's okay that you spoke to your father about this. I'm the person you should have spoken to about it. I don't know where he's leading you, but it isn't right."

Now, under normal circumstances, I would take issue with Zende telling her that she shouldn't have spoken to Julius about this vs him. When Julius was railing against Nicole being their surrogate, I was 100% in his corner as I believe he was looking out for what was best for Nicole, but also Maya and Rick. She was too young to be pressured into doing it but she could and should have said no and drawn the line after being their egg donor. But two wrongs don't make a right and yanking a child away from the mother who has raised her (and no, Maya being relegated to stepmother is not the same) is wrong. Plus, Julius's motives now are as much about punishing Maya for not being Myron as they are about his precious princess, Nicole. If he truly loved his daughters or even just Nicole, he wouldn't be doing his best Iago imitation and telling her everything she wants to hear to everyone's detriment, including her own. Of course, I love Obba so anything that keeps him on my screen can't be all bad. But I agree with WTH is Anna/Viv? I cannot imagine she would be in support of this.

Nicole: "He understands! You don't know what it was like, the word 'infertility,' knowing that I can't... and then hearing Lizzy call me 'mama. 'Something inside of me just... don't you get it?"

Zende: "No. No, I don't get it. Baby, I'm sorry. I don't know what you're feeling. I'm not Lizzy's father. You don't know how badly I wanted your first child to be mine! But it didn't happen. That is Rick's biological child. We will have a family. You will be a mother. But not to Lizzy. We can't be Lizzy's parents. But look, I know this is hard. It's extremely hard for you. But you have to sign those papers."

Nicole: "I just... I need some time. I need to think. You said you'd be there for me. Can you just...try to understand?"

Zende's expression says that he's trying to but he still believes her to be in the wrong.

We cut to the CEO office. Rick tells Maya that he hopes Zende can talk some sense into Nicole.

Maya: "Why wouldn't she listen to you?"

Rick: "I may have come on too strong. And I feel bad about that. I just got all defensive! I just think it's absurd that we have to remind her that Lizzy's our baby."

Maya is clearly rattled: "I just don't understand why this is happening. I thought it was settled."

Rick: "It will be settled. Zende knows what's going on now. And he better convince Nicole to sign the papers." Well, he's trying Rick. There's a knock on the door and they turn, expectantly, thinking it will be Zende and/or Nicole, with signed papers in hand. But it's not. It's Julius, smug as I've ever seen him.

Maya is not exactly thrilled to see him: "Dad."

Julius has the gall to say this to her, after what's he's been doing behind her back: "Oh. Not happy to see your father?"

Rick quickly covers: "Yes, we are, Julius. We just thought you might be Nicole or Zende."

Julius: "Oh, you're expecting them?"

Maya: "We're waiting for them to work on something."

Julius: "Hmm. I heard there was a problem with the adoption papers?" He just casually throws it out there but it's a total fishing expedition.

Rick: "Yes, there is. But it's being cleared up now, so there's no reason to worry. Nicole will sign those papers."

Julius, his smug growing by the minute, looks at Rick and Maya like "I don't think so." He then takes the tact of worrying about Nicole. "Well, no wonder your sister's distraught. I mean, she's already upset, and you go and confront her again?

Maya explains it to him like he's five: "Until those papers are signed, Lizzy's adoption is technically in limbo."

Julius: "That is not Nicole's fault." This isn't anyone's fault but Carter's!

Rick: "She's not being reasonable."

Julius: "Why? Because she's not doing what the two of you want? For God's sake, the girl just found out she can't have children." 

Maya clarifies: "'Might' not be able to have children. And I think we all need to keep that in mind. Look, we feel for her. But this has nothing to do with Lizzy's adoption."

Rick tries to smooth things over: "Nicole is just feeling a little overwhelmed. And what I did clearly didn't help things, and I'm sorry about that. But Zende is with Nicole right now, and they're gonna work through this, and Nicole will sign. I need to go speak with Carter, let him know there's a temporary hold-up." 

Maya: "Thank you, sweetie. Please just make sure this can't happen again." She smiles at her husband but that smile is wiped clean off her face the moment the door closes behind him, her posture already moving into defensive mode, as she faces off with her father, too many years of living under his roof alerting her to the fact that her father is squarely in Nicole's corner. Just like always.

Julius: "So, I understand this is a clerical error?"

Maya: "Yeah. I guess they happen." What of it?

Julius counters it's not that common, what with all the celebrity marriages and divorces and how errors with those never seem to make the news.

Maya: "You never hear about it because it's an easy fix."

Julius: "Well, maybe it doesn't need to be fixed. You know, sometimes when you're gonna make a, uh, big life-changing decision, it's good to stop and think about you're doing."

Maya: "Luckily, this decision was made a long time ago."

Julius: "We all thought so. But somehow it was undone. You know, when things like this come out of the blue, maybe we should think about it." Oh, he wants Nicole to do more than think about it, he wants her to assert her rights as Lizzy's biological mother. Let the consequences to everyone be damned.

But Julius's innuendos were merely a warmup. Without warning, he unleashes on Maya:

Julius: "Don't you think your sister has enough to deal with? She just found out she's not gonna be able to have a child again. For her to have been able to do what she did and for it to turn out this way? It just isn't fair! I mean, a beautiful, happy couple launched into despair, and you're making it worse!" And his oldest daughter and her husband and their daughter aren't a beautiful, happy family?

Maya: "Believe me, I know how awful this timing is."

Julius: "No! I don't think you have a clue! I don't think you even understand what you're doing to her, because if you did and you cared, you would stop doing it. Don't you realize how devastating this is? And you go on and force some legal papers in her face and demand that she signs them?! (These are the same papers she signed after Lizzie was born.) How selfish can you be, Maya? Answer me this. How could you live with yourself if you knew that you took away the only child that your sister could ever have?"

It's clear Maya feels terrible about Nicole's circumstances, but that doesn't change the fact that Lizzy is her child and has been since the moment she was born.

Maya tries to reason with him, appeal to a place of common ground, grasping to give him the benefit of the doubt when he doesn't deserve it: "You're worried about Nicole, and so am I."

Julius: "She's yearning for her baby."

Maya: "And one day she will have one!"

Julius: "I'm talking about Lizzy."

Maya, a mother lioness here: "Lizzy is my baby."

Julius: "Nicole birthed her." How narrow-minded. Zende is no less Kristen's son. 

Maya: "And I am her mother. Nicole was my surrogate."

Julius: "No. The only reason she agreed was because she was indebted to you."

Maya:" We discussed all the options. This was Nicole's decision."

Julius: "It's time to think about somebody besides yourself for a change."

Maya, already sensing his meaning, calls him out: "You want to say what you really mean by that?"

Julius: "You have a chance to do the right thing, the compassionate thing, the moral thing."

Maya warns: "Watch yourself."

Julius backs off, but you'll soon see, it's just temporary. He patronizes her: "You've done a great job with Lizzy. She's a wonderful, happy baby. You've had the chance to experience motherhood, something that you probably never thought to ever be able to experience. Now, Nicole gave that to you. You can give that back to her." Is he fucking for real with this? So Maya should be grateful that she got Lizzy for these months and should happily hand her back to Nicole? 

Maya, struggling to hold back tears: "Lizzy is my child."

Julius is full on snarling and pontificating now, his animosity towards her apparent: "Genetically and legally... Lizzy is Nicole's child. Give her back to her mother!" She is with her mother, you asshole! A mother who is standing there, tears streaming from her face and he could not care less. How could he be so callously indifferent to her clearly visible pain? It's like Maya has retreated back into that child she once was, hating who she really was at times because she knew her daddy would hate her for it. And she was and is right.

How can hate her that much? And how could Viv take him back (I realize she doesn't know about everything that's been going on), but when you add in his treatment of her with the long term affair and Sasha, the product of that affair and his treatment of two of his his daughters??? I can understand her forgiving his infidelity but his abuse of his children? Never.

The door opens, then slams as Zende enters then, with fire in his eyes: "Julius..."

That one word and the look in Zende's eyes is enough to silence Julius (for the moment).

Zende: "You need to stop, Julius. Maya is Lizzy's mother." What's this? Oh just me cheering on Zende for the second time this week. 

Julius: "This isn't your place." Excuse me? Who the fuck died and made him king of anything?

Zende: "You're wrong. Maya has every right to be a parent. You and I both know what's best for Lizzy, and that's being with Maya, her mother." He looks at Maya then back to Julius.

Julius: "I'm talking about her biological mother."

Zende, looks at his father-in-law, shaking his head with disgust: "I don't understand you, man." 

Julius: "Look, I'm looking out for Nicole and my granddaughter." 

Zende: "Maya and Rick have been raising Lizzy. You know that. Every single day, from the moment that she wakes up to the moment that she falls asleep, they have been there! Now, look, I get it. You're Nicole's father. And I respect you for that. But I am her husband! Till death do us part. Now, you need to know your boundaries. You trying to convince Nicole not to sign those papers will change everything, let alone the fact that I'm not Lizzy's father! Look, we'll have a family, but not like this."

Julius isn't swayed by these comments. Because, perhaps, they're the truth? He puffs up his chest and proceeds to tell Zende his version of the truth. This should be good: "So, boundaries mean nothing to you. They're only set up for me. Let me explain something to you. I am Nicole's father. And I am yours, too. (Dafuq?) You come in here all high and mighty, and you want to tell me how it's gonna be? Well, I'm gonna tell you how it's gonna be. I am Nicole's father, and I will never stop protecting her. And no -- no act of God, no danger, or no husband will ever change that. And that's the fact! Just like it's a fact that if Maya was meant to have a child, to be a mother, she would have been given what's necessary for that to be possible."

And there it is, ladies and gentlemen. His real MO in being Nicole's champion. He doesn't give a shit about Lizzy, she's just a prop, a means for him to stick it to Maya for the unpardonable sin of being Maya, her true self, vs Myron. He doesn't give a shit about Nicole because he's encouraging her to do something that will tear a family he already fractured by decades of lying and cheating. He never gave a shit about Sasha, his dirty little secret, or her mother (or his wife). And he only gave a shit about Maya when she was Myron and he still had his little fantasies of living vicariously.

The only person Julius cares about is Julius. 

And I can't believe I gave him even the slightest bit of pause, saying his being uncomfortable with Maya's transition didn't make him a bigot, that it was probably hard for him blah blah blah...but not anymore, not after that. He is a bigot, pure and simple, using vicious, vicious words to denigrate his child and her actions to rectify the wrongness of a girl being born into a boy's body. 

No matter what shenanigans Maya has pulled in the past, she doesn't deserve to be treated so vilely. She doesn't have to defend her right to be who she is to anyone, least of all that motherfucking asshole who doesn't deserve to be called "Dad."

Maya fighting for control: "How dare you."

Zende: "Children need love and nurturing, Julius! Compassion and understanding!" He shakes his fists as he talks for emphasis. I wish he'd take one of those fists and knock Julius' smug off his face. "Look, Maya has given Lizzy that since the first day she was born."

Maya, swallows back her tears, "It's a lot more than you're giving me right now, Dad." 

Zende: "Maya and Rick, they adopted Lizzy. They have been raising that little girl. Lizzy is theirs! They made an agreement with Nicole, and whether you like it and if I like it, it doesn't matter, because Nicole agreed to it! Now, I know Julius Avant to be a man of his word. (Since when?) Now, wouldn't you want your daughter to be? Stay out of my marriage, man, and stay away from Maya!" Maya gives him an "oh shit, you've done it now" look but Zende has no fucks to give. Not today, no sir.

Julius wisely retreats, shaking his head, but leaving Zende and Maya alone. She brokenly voices her thanks and Zende embraces her.

Absolutely powerful scenes today, knocked out of the park by these three.  I'm still thinking about it and that's not something I often do when it comes to this show.

Edited June 23, 2017 by CountryGirl

[Anna Yolei]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

And I can't believe I gave him even the slightest bit of pause, saying his being uncomfortable with Maya's transition didn't make him a bigot, that it was probably hard for him blah blah blah...but not anymore, not after that. He is a bigot, pure and simple, using vicious, vicious words to denigrate his child and her actions to rectify the wrongness of a girl being born into a boy's body. 

No matter what shenanigans Maya has pulled in the past, she doesn't deserve to be treated so vilely. She doesn't have to defend her right to be who she is to anyone, least of all that motherfucking asshole who doesn't deserve to be called "Dad."

Exactly. I just really can't with Julius anymore. And he would've been playing favorites even if Maya wasn't trans. I don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said, but when Zende is the voice of reason in a room, things have gone sideways.

[TigerLynx]

3 hours ago, drivethroo said:

Which is why Zende shouldn't have to pay for Rick & Maya's poor life decisions & selfish choices.  Or Nicole's.  Rick & Maya were selfish for asking Nicole to be their surrogate, Rick & Maya were selfish for pressuring Nicole to give them another baby a year later, Nicole was selfish for considering it again* without taking Zende's feelings into consideration and Nicole is being selfish again by entertaining the thought of keeping Lizzie without taking Zende's feelings into consideration. Everyone in this situation is acting selfishly but somehow Zende wanting his own bio-child is the most egregious offense.

 

2 hours ago, nkotb said:

It really does suck that Nicole didn't take Zende's feeling into consideration when she got pregnant with Lizzie, & she certainly isn't taking them into consideration now with maybe/maybe not signing the adoption papers. All of his concerns about the potential problems that could arise from Nicole having the Raya baby are coming true, yet she still isn't taking his feelings into consideration. In fairness, Julius voiced concerns at the very beginning, which are also coming true, but he's being such a jackass about it that it's hard to credit him. 

Even though pretty well everyone in this storyline is unlikable, it certainly has all of us talking!

 

43 minutes ago, Anna Yolei said:

Exactly. I just really can't with Julius anymore. And he would've been playing favorites even if Maya wasn't trans. I don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said, but when Zende is the voice of reason in a room, things have gone sideways.

All of these.  Especially the bolded part.

The points these characters are making now, and some of them are very valid, should have been considered and thought about, really thought about, BEFORE Nicole agreed to be Rick and Maya's surrogate.  However, at the end of the day, Rick and Maya never should have asked a teenage girl, sister or not, to be a surrogate for them.  After everything Rick went through with Little E, he should have had a much better perspective on how difficult this would be.

[Broken Ox]

23 hours ago, politichick said:

Urging children to have children is how they landed in this terrible situation. Coco is too young to carry a baby, just as Nicole was and still kind of is!!!!!

Agreed. That's why it stood out to me when they said it, such a stupid direction to take this. Hopefully I was just reading too much into it.

[Gam2]

I missed today's show. Has Nicole fallen into a full blown coma yet? She was halfway there yesterday. I know that Zende is now a world renowned fashion designer but what exactly is Nicole's job at FC? Besides baby incubator, I mean. What exactly is Slouchy's job and Slouchy II's job? All they do is walk around and gossip. What happened to the urgency of designing a new line and a new line of jewelry?! Everyone, get on this STAT! Our company depends on getting this out right away!!!! Okey dokey, then. 

[mightysparrow]

This baby story line is a total shitshow.  It's exposing B&B's previous sloppy storytelling and giving a lead role in a major story line to an actress who is completely incapable of carrying it.  The only bright spot is that the actor who plays Zzzzzende has stepped up in a major way.

B&B went for the 'ripped from the headlines' story of a transgender woman out of the blue.  NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING in Maya's backstory indicated that she was transgender.  One of her early stories was the search for her baby after she got out of prison.  All of a sudden, the show turns on a dime and Maya is transgender.  And it's dealt with in a few weeks.  I don't think Rick Forrester is a bad man but he definitely has 'issues'.  I found it next to impossible to accept that he was able to accept the fact that the woman he had turned his whole life upside down for was born a man so easily.  Even the most open-minded, LGBTQ-friendly straight man would have had an issue with it.  And what about Rick's family?  Again, we have a bunch of people who might not be anti-LGBTQ, but definitely have issues.  It would have been perfectly normal for one or two of them to need a little time to accept Maya for who she was.

As for Maya's family, we knew there were serious problems there from the very beginning.   Nicole was blackmailing her sister from the minute she was introduced.  After Maya's secret was revealed and the rest of her family arrived, it was obvious that they didn't accept Maya.  But once again, that was dealt with lickety-split and it was over and done with.  The show spent more time dealing with Julius' illegitimate daughter.

Now it's obvious that Julius' unresolved issues with his daughter are going to be played out in the Baby Lizzie story.  Julius is despicable but I can't help feeling a little bit of sympathy for the character because the show did him a huge dis-service by not giving him the opportunity to work out his feelings about Maya before now.  Whatever Bell, Jr. is paying Obba isn't enough because he's making this mess of a story work when it has no business working.  He's turning bullshit into solid gold and there aren't enough awards for his amazing performance.  Julius was made out to be the bad guy when he tried to discourage Nicole from being a surrogate but JULIUS WAS RIGHT.  He might have been right for the wrong reasons but Nicole was too young, too immature and played by an actress too untalented.  Julius has the right to tell everyone involved a big, fat 'I TOLD YOU SO' but he doesn't have the right to use Nicole and Lizzie to punish his daughter for being transgender.

As for Nicole, she doesn't give a damn about Lizzie.  She doesn't want to RAISE a baby, she wants to HAVE a baby.  If she's so desperate to start a family, she'd be visiting every fertility specialist she could to find a way to get pregnant.  But why do that when she can just pull a take-backsies on Rick and Maya.  It blew my mind when Zende (of all people!) laid some truth on Nicole's stupid ass.  Does she think that they could keep living in Brooke's house and working at Forrester if she tore Rick and Maya's family apart?  And how would she and her husband support their child?  Zende's an apprentice fashion designer.  Is there anyone on earth who thinks Nicole has ANY marketable skills?  Does Nicole know what Lizzie's favourite stuffed animal is?  What her bedtime routine is?  Is she allergic to peanuts?

The last few episodes have been a revelation because the actor who plays Zende has come into his own.  There has never been any indication that boy could act before so this has been an incredibly pleasant surprise.  Some posters think that Obba's influence is the reason.  Unfortunately Obba hasn't been able to do anything with RE.  He's good but he's not that good.

I think it was @grisgris who called for Vivien to return and I wholeheartedly agree.  Poor Viv is busting her ass in the post office while her husband Iagos all over LA.  Julius is throwing his weight around, telling everyone that he's the FATHER and he has the right to interfere in things that don't concern him.  Vivien needs to come back and remind Julius just what kind of father and husband he's been to his family.  How much he's let ALL of his children down and how he's betrayed the woman that's supporting his no-good ass.

While I rejoice at Zende's blossoming, it actually makes things worse because it makes Reign's performance even weaker.  She is the centerpiece of this story and her performance is criminal.  When you're on B&B and your acting is THAT bad, you need to turn in your SAG card.

[Gam2]

Mightysparrow, kadooz to you for this entire post. Why are we all still watching this poorly written dreck? 

[Waldo13]

Did you notice that they gave Charlie a time out?  They took away his gun.  Why was Charlie in that meeting anyway?  Was it to protect Quinn?  Than Charlie would not have been a security guard but just a security monitor. 

Two things:  First were did Shelia get the money to buy a $15 martini in a fancy Beverly Hills restaurant and second how can Pam and Charlie afford a $60 lunch at the same restaurant?

 

The one thing TIIC are good at is treating us like we are mindless dolts without being able to remember anything that happens in past SL. Nicole being cleared for a second child, miss understanding night, Steffy's battle with Aly, etc. 

[Anna Yolei]

On 6/22/2017 at 10:35 AM, TigerLynx said:

Dumb story and dumb characters all around.

Ultimately, this is the story's biggest shortcoming: I hate every single person involved and they all suck for various reasons.

I have the feeling that TPTB are trying to develops the Avants into a more viable family in the way that the Spectras  (original recipe and the current batch*) and Marone-Paynes were, but sheesh. Either RE needs an acting coach or a recast, cuz shes barely any better than Charity Rahmer. OB is a great actor, which is the only reason I feel anything for or about Julius.

As someone else pointed out, if Nicole needed a friend to bounce off regarding the infertility, Steffy was a far more logical choice. That would mean Steffy caring about someone else with no payoff for herself, but since we're stuck with her as the show's default """""heroine""""" anyway and she and Liam are in the longest peaceful stretch of their relationship ever, then why the hell not? She's Zende's cousin and Rick's niece/former step-sister/ex-whatever the fuck that shit was eight years ago, so she'd care about both of them....sort of.

 

*Speaking of which, where are Darlita and Shirley lately? Did I miss them somehow?

Edited June 24, 2017 by Anna Yolei

[Petunia13]

On 6/17/2017 at 9:49 AM, Petunia13 said:

Bradley Bell's house is used as Brooke's house. His sister LauraLee, who plays Christine on y&r, house was used as the Marrone mansion. William Bell Jr and his ex producer writer wife Maria Arena Bell house was Ridge and Taylor's and is now repurposed as $Bill pad. 

The outside of Forrester Creations shows a split level Tudor with very peaked & slanted roof. But it's always depicted as a couple stories (elevator and view high enough to potentially kill) and having a flat functional rooftop used as a gym/break area. 

its school in rl. 

[Anna Yolei]

I always figured the tudor part was just Forester family offices and the CBS studio rest of it was things like storerooms and warehouses.

[Anna Yolei]

15 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

This baby story line is a total shitshow.  It's exposing B&B's previous sloppy storytelling and giving a lead role in a major story line to an actress who is completely incapable of carrying it.

 

15 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

Whatever Bell, Jr. is paying Obba isn't enough because he's making this mess of a story work when it has no business working.  He's turning bullshit into solid gold and there aren't enough awards for his amazing performance. 

 

15 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

As for Nicole, she doesn't give a damn about Lizzie.  She doesn't want to RAISE a baby, she wants to HAVE a baby.

 

15 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

While I rejoice at Zende's blossoming, it actually makes things worse because it makes Reign's performance even weaker.  She is the centerpiece of this story and her performance is criminal.  When you're on B&B and your acting is THAT bad, you need to turn in your SAG card.

Agreed with the whole post, but these parts especially and times ten on the last one. I can't in good conscience rip on JMW as the worst actress on this show anymore, cuz geez. She's never going to be a Meryl Streep or even a Michelle Stafford circa the end of her run on Y&R, but I can recall at least four different occasions where she put in visible effort onscreen when a scene called for it, like after Phoebe died, or when Ridge sacked her after that Possé wall boink video came out, that time she found out about Thomas lying about the boinkberries and her own miscarriage. Or hell, even Sydney FFS where she finally got Liam as unequivocal hers until Hope returns to LA or Sally needs rescuing from someone not named Thomas.

But RE? Dear God. This is the first true attempt B&B has ever made at establishing a family of color, and I think I speak for most of us when I say I never expected any of them, not even Maya, to still be around. Hell, I was looking forward to Zencole disappearing after their wedding, and I'm still okay with that, Person(s) Who Obviously Reads Our Posts ?But having Nicole as the center of the family is like putting a Fiat engine inside of a Rolls Royce: you're not going anywhere. To repeat, she needs acting lessons or to be recast. The bar for good acting on this show was already at sea level as it is, but I haven't seen such a lack of talent since the Hoover twins who played Phoebe and Steffy.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Anna Yolei

[ByTor]

15 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

JULIUS WAS RIGHT.  He might have been right for the wrong reasons but Nicole was too young, too immature and played by an actress too untalented. 

BWAH!!!

15 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

Unfortunately Obba hasn't been able to do anything with RE.  He's good but he's not that good.

I think he is that good....RE, however, is THAT bad :)

14 hours ago, Waldo13 said:

Why was Charlie in that meeting anyway?

Also, why was Katie, who was fired, at that meeting?  I thought there was no place for her at Forrester...now all of a sudden there is?  And why did Eric make that job offer at a company meeting?

Edited June 24, 2017 by ByTor

[mightysparrow]

On another note, I am THROUGH with Charlie.  He has the nerve to give Quinn the stink-eye at the company meeting (what the fuck was he even doing there?) and then proceed to talk shit about her when his senile incompetence could have gotten Quinn killed.  Has EVERYONE forgotten that Charlie left his gun lying around for any raving lunatic (ie Katie) to pick up and wave around?  If Eric needed to find a 'place for Katie' he should have made her head of security.  Her surveillance skills are second to none!

[tessaray]

I have to wonder if there are BTS or even personal issues going on with Reign. She's so much worse than when she started that I worry a little when I see her on screen.  This should be Emmy material for her and she looks like someone/something is forcing her to show up to work.  (ETA: I don't follow actors real life situations unless it's something so publicized it's impossible not to - like LG's accident.) 

Edited June 24, 2017 by tessaray

[mightysparrow]

58 minutes ago, tessaray said:

I have to wonder if there are BTS or even personal issues going on with Reign. She's so much worse than when she started that I worry a little when I see her on screen.  This should be Emmy material for her and she looks like someone/something is forcing her to show up to work.  (ETA: I don't follow actors real life situations unless it's something so publicized it's impossible not to - like LG's accident.) 

She might be feeling overwhelmed.  It's one thing when all she had to do was look cute and deliver Soap Opera 1.0 level performance. B&B is known for bad acting.  But she's in the big leagues now.  She's carrying a major 'summer blockbuster' story line.  Add the fact that this is the first time a family of colour has been front and center and that's a lot riding on Reign's narrow little shoulders.  It must have been easier for her when the actor who plays Zende (can't call him Zzzzzende any more) was equally deficient in the acting department, but now he's stepping up in a big way.  And to top it all off,(pun intended) she looks like HELL!!  A girl like Reign has probably always counted on being able to fall back on her looks.  But now, THAT WIG is making her the laughing stock of the whole world.  If she has any awareness at all, the poor girl must be in agony. 

[OhioSongbird]

Obba rocks!  He's the best thing in this SL.

I want to know what is sooooo bad about RE's natural hair they make her wear that monstrosity.  Zende has indeed stepped up his game.  Put him in a story with a 'live' love interest and he would be good.  Nicole is just zombie walking.....wait.  Even zombies have more life than she does......

That dress Katie is wearing has shown up twice on Y&R on two different characters.  I suspect B&B and Y&R share wardrobe/costumers or CBS got a close-out deal on those.  Anyone got scoop on that?  I have done some costuming for plays and have sent stuff off to the movies over the years (vintage...I have a store).  Just curious.....

 IMO Katie wore it best.

[grisgris]

Speaking of clothes, what was that striped frumpy monstrosity Ivy was wearing yesterday? She didn't hang around long enough to get a good look at it but it was unattractive. AB looks so fantastic in those solid colored body-con dresses that when she wears something ugly it's so jarring.

My take on RE is first, she's only 19 (maybe 20 by now.) Still, she would have to have had some experience to land a role on a huge soap like B&B. I think that this is her touch on how she thinks Nicole should be portrayed -- shell-shocked and in deep denial/depression.  The problem is, is that it's so one-note. You can only get so much mileage out of sleepwalking around with a blank expression and pouty lower lip. That's what's making Julius' "daddy's girl" Papa Bear act so much more exaggerated and irritating.

Moles, if you're reading, we're asking for a recast. STAT!

Charlie and Pam need to go far, far away.  Maybe Sheila will kidnap Charlie. That would be a good start.

 

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, OhioSongbird said:

I want to know what is sooooo bad about RE's natural hair they make her wear that monstrosity.

I hear that wigs are worn to protect the natural hair.  But what's the point when you never show your natural hair?  And when the wig looks like crap?

[Anna Yolei]

Back when I was stationed on the Fitzgerald (!) in Japan, when I made the decision not to piss away upwards of fifteen percent of my E-2 pay on hair relaxers, I did wear a variety of protective styles including wigs so I could be in regulations and more importantly not be nagged by every other sailor who had nothing else to but bitch about my hair not being done up cute, because God forbid I not spend an hour of my already packed day dealing with my hair to work with people I don't like and had mostly forgotten existed until last week when everyone who served on that ship came out the woodwork.

But I digress. They can invest in far better wigs than what they put on Reign Edwards...and hell, even JMW for that matter. Natural isnt aleays healthy (remember Ashley Jones's dye jobs? Poor girl's hair was fried by the time she left) but the costume people realize the characters are millionaires, right? They need to look the part.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Anna Yolei

[bannana]

Sheila's hypnotizing stare down of Charlie cracked me up!  Is this a new thing or did she always have this?

[OhioSongbird]

That was hilarious!  Charlie's an easy mark, tho.  Hell...Pam has him hypnotized with lemon bars.

Note to self:  make lemon bars.  I love them but not every damn day....

Sheila is growing on me.  Never saw her before so it's new and I can get back stories as I go.

[grisgris]

3 hours ago, bannana said:

Sheila's hypnotizing stare down of Charlie cracked me up!  Is this a new thing or did she always have this?

No. That's a classic Sheila stare down.  Back in the day, Kimberlin Brown had long dark brunette hair and she styled it so that her widow's peak was very prominent. Teamed with her dark eyebrows and deep brown eyes, she could look very menacing. She also had an expression where she raised one eyebrow and gave a death glare. I am glad that at least the stylists are getting it right with KB. I like the subtle auburn hair and softer makeup. If they'd tried to re-create her old look, she'd come across as cartoonish.  Sheila also dressed rather modestly,  I mean in terms of not being overtly sexy or dressing in all black (looking at you, Steffy!)  Her wardrobe, accessories and makeup were always in the background so just the evil shone through.

Actually, I think age is working in Sheila's favor. She looks like a kindly attractive nonchalant middle-aged lady. Nobody would dream as to what lurks beneath the surface!

Yikes! I remember what a hot mess Ashley Jones' hair was.  I don't know how she suffered through all that. With Eric being her father, it would have been perfectly natural for Bridget to have dark hair.  I guess it was a choice to make her favor Brooke's side. Speaking of, KKL is one who should be wearing a wig. What happened to that hairstyle she had right after her wedding? That looked awesome! It was so random. Here today, gone tomorrow. I thought her hair looked horrible the past few days when she was wearing that gorgeous floral blouse and sky blue slacks.  Those stringy yellow beach waves were the first thing your eyes were drawn to.

[Gam2]

This show just becomes more stupid over time. Pam and Charlie sitting in an outdoor cafe talking about personal stuff within hearing of everyone at the cafe! And then, how strange that Sheila happens to be sitting at the bar within hearing distance of Pam and Charlie! Who could have imagined anything that coincidental? How much money do these writers make per year? I (and all of you) could write much better scripts than these losers.  I can just imagine the actors reading these scripts and thinking "What the hell is this nonsense? No viewers are going to buy into this absolute crap!" BLECH.

[Gam2]

Yeah, KKL, cut your hair to shoulder length and have it colored to some kind of normal color seen in nature. Your face and figure are gorgeous. Your hair distracts from all of that. Show yourself at your best, girl!

[bannana]

57 minutes ago, grisgris said:

No. That's a classic Sheila stare down.  Back in the day, Kimberlin Brown had long dark brunette hair and she styled it so that her widow's peak was very prominent. Teamed with her dark eyebrows and deep brown eyes, she could look very menacing. She also had an expression where she raised one eyebrow and gave a death glare. I am glad that at least the stylists are getting it right with KB. I like the subtle auburn hair and softer makeup. If they'd tried to re-create her old look, she'd come across as cartoonish.  Sheila also dressed rather modestly,  I mean in terms of not being overtly sexy or dressing in all black (looking at you, Steffy!)  Her wardrobe, accessories and makeup were always in the background so just the evil shone through.

Actually, I think age is working in Sheila's favor. She looks like a kindly attractive nonchalant middle-aged lady. Nobody would dream as to what lurks beneath the surface!

Yikes! I remember what a hot mess Ashley Jones' hair was.  I don't know how she suffered through all that. With Eric being her father, it would have been perfectly natural for Bridget to have dark hair.  I guess it was a choice to make her favor Brooke's side. Speaking of, KKL is one who should be wearing a wig. What happened to that hairstyle she had right after her wedding? That looked awesome! It was so random. Here today, gone tomorrow. I thought her hair looked horrible the past few days when she was wearing that gorgeous floral blouse and sky blue slacks.  Those stringy yellow beach waves were the first thing your eyes were drawn to.

Thank you, @grisgris.  I wasn't watching back then, but I did catch Sheila in her most recent Y&R storyline (well, not counting the faux Phyllis which I guess we just have to ignore) and all I remember from that is that she was crazy.  But so far on B&B she seems like she will be entertaining.  But the fools sure are making it easy for her, everyone telegraphing about Quidge.  Quinn is going to be sorry she doesn't have Deacon as her ally.

[Anna Yolei]

Between Sheila and Deacon in the picture, now would be a good time to bring Amber back for a cameo, no?

I mean, I know people were sick of her once upon a time, but tell me she's any worse than Nicole's Spock impressions or Steffy's existence. 

Better yet, bring back Eric III to have a better balance of men and women on the show. He should be about Steffy and Thomas' age, so he'd easily fit in as a spoiler to either Steam or Tally when needed and maybe share some scenes with Rick.

[ByTor]

9 hours ago, Anna Yolei said:

Between Sheila and Deacon in the picture, now would be a good time to bring Amber back for a cameo, no?

No :-P

[SweePea59]

On 6/19/2017 at 4:16 PM, La di Diva said:

Nicole's dead animal wig has got to go.  

Actual roadkill would be more attractive than that synthetic horses tail.

On 6/20/2017 at 8:54 PM, grisgris said:

How exactly, are Julius and Carter "family?"

Eric must have adopted him when no one was looking.

On 6/21/2017 at 4:00 PM, MulletorHater said:

Exactly.  The show is blowing a great opportunity to mine its own history.  I mean, pretty Ricky has only struggled with this issue since his teens.  Not only did the first baby with Amber die, but he was secretly buried, without Rick's knowledge.  To add insult to injury, Amber stole her cousin, Becky's baby, passed him off as the child she gave birth to and knowingly allowed Rick to fall in love with the baby and raise him as his own for months.

And wasn't this Rick the actor in some of those storylines? Maybe they didn't want to only flashback to some of them and not all of them. It's odd though because this show loves its flashbacks.

 

On 6/22/2017 at 10:03 AM, Dream Boy said:

It's amazing that this drab storyline is occuring on the same show that can give us the fun Deacon/Sheila/Quinn caper. More of the latter and less of the former please. 

This show's decison to use their history willy nilly frustrates me so much. They did a good job with Sheila's return with some epic flashbacks but totally have not mined the CJ/Rick relationship at all with the return of the Spectras. So strange. 

Monday was a good Sheila day. Then I was tricked into watching for three days with no Sheila and nothing but zzzzzzzzzzzzz. But Friday was a good payoff for the bland torture of the previous three days.

On 6/22/2017 at 5:41 PM, Carlylefan said:

I don't think it is possible for me to care less about the Lizzie story.  It's a cure for insomnia.

It's hard to watch. It's really not fair that they're making us sit through this in order to get to the Sheila part of the show.

On 6/23/2017 at 7:27 PM, Gam2 said:

Mightysparrow, kadooz to you for this entire post. Why are we all still watching this poorly written dreck? 

In a word, Sheila. In my on and off history watching this show usually when it would get boring and I'd stop watching or I was about to tune out they'd bring back Sheila and I'd be mesmerized again.

On 6/24/2017 at 2:45 AM, Anna Yolei said:

The bar for good acting on this show was already at sea level as it is, but I haven't seen such a lack of talent since the Hoover twins who played Phoebe and Steffy.

Were they the ones that "sang" at one of Taylor's funerals? I'm still traumatized by that.

12 hours ago, Anna Yolei said:

Between Sheila and Deacon in the picture, now would be a good time to bring Amber back for a cameo, no?

No.

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, SweePea59 said:

Were they the ones that "sang" at one of Taylor's funerals? I'm still traumatized by that.

At about 11:12...

[Anna Yolei]

1 hour ago, SweePea59 said:

And wasn't this Rick the actor in some of those storylines?

IIRC, he was only in the part of the story that involved sleeping with Amber. He was already recast by the time Amber was pregnant and they'd written Kimberly Fairchild (Amber's biggest love rival) into the show.

1 hour ago, SweePea59 said:

Were they the ones that "sang" at one of Taylor's funerals? I'm still traumatized by that.

As godawful as that was, no. The Hoover twins came in 2005 and debuted at Nick and Bridget' s first wedding attempt (the one where Taylor showed up from the dead).

[Videnbas]

28 minutes ago, Anna Yolei said:

IIRC, he was only in the part of the story that involved sleeping with Amber. He was already recast by the time Amber was pregnant and they'd written Kimberly Fairchild (Amber's biggest love rival) into the show.

Actually, JY was on the show throughout most of the Amber/pregnancy/Kimberly storyline. The recast didn't happen until after Little ABCDE was born.

[drivethroo]

14 hours ago, Anna Yolei said:

Better yet, bring back Eric III to have a better balance of men and women on the show. He should be about Steffy and Thomas' age, so he'd easily fit in as a spoiler to either Steam or Tally when needed and maybe share some scenes with Rick.

Eric 3 should be older than Steffy because he's older than Hope and he's not biologically related to anyone except Hope and Deacon, so that would be some new non-Forrester (yet Forrester adjacent) blood.

[politichick]

When Carter referred to Julius as family he didn't mean it in reference to himself but to the Forrester family.

[Anna Yolei]

8 hours ago, drivethroo said:

Eric 3 should be older than Steffy because he's older than Hope and he's not biologically related to anyone except Hope and Deacon, so that would be some new non-Forrester (yet Forrester adjacent) blood.

He's not that much older...Maybe three to six months, tops. The summer I started watching in '99, he was maybe a few weeks to a few months old when Becky came on the scene and Taylor was visibly showing when she contracted tuberculosis while pregnant with the twins (who were delivered around Labor Day or thereabouts).

So, not too extremely older and still age appropriate for this group. And if Maya has a long-lost child come out the woodwork or pair him with Darlita or Ivy, all the better.

[CountryGirl]

Recap for Friday, 6/23/17:

We open at FC where Eric, Quinn, Ridge, Katie, Pam, and Charlie are all gathered in the CEO office. And Ivy, how could I forget Ivy? Well, that prison jumpsuit she's wearing isn't helping.

Eric is effusively thanking Katie for spying on them, I mean, saving Quinn's life. So she came all the way to FC just for that? Then again, she has no life beyond the telescope.

Quinn: "I'm just looking forward to everything going back to normal."

Pam: "Whatever 'normal' in this family is." Normally, I might crack a smile at that but since it's Pam, all  I can say is, "Shut up, Pam!" Charlie is twitchy and eyeing Ridge and Quinn closely.

Pam tells Eric that a reporter called and wants a statement about Sheila, given her recent arrest.

Eric: "Well, tell them that Sheila's arrest was a big mistake and that Deacon Sharpe is in custody. Sheila's free. I think she's left LA." I don't think so, Eric.

It turns out that there's a reason for Katie's presence as he offers her a job in marketing, something she is far more suited to. 

Katie is surprised: "Wow. Um... I mean, are you sure? I overreacted when Quinn fired me, to say the least."

Eric: "I'm absolutely sure. I want you in marketing. I think your business skills will serve us very, very well. You'll work with Nicole, the same things that Wyatt used to do when he was here. I think it's a perfect fit."

Katie: "Quinn, what do you think?" Based on the looks Quinn is shooting Ridge, I don't think she likes the idea one iota.

Quinn: "I think Eric is right. Plus I wouldn't be standing here if it hadn't been for you alerting Ridge to what was going on. He risked his life to save mine."

Charlie: "That's really fortunate that you and Ridge are practically living under the same roof. Comes in handy." Pam glares at Charlie, pissed. I can't believe that at least Quinn doesn't catch Charlie's hidden meaning. I guess she really is that confident.

Katie questions if Steffy should weigh in on the decision but Ridge assures her it's fine and with that, Katie is officially back at Forrester.

Ivy: "Wow. And raring to go, I'm guessing."

Katie: "Yeah, yeah. I want to hit the ground running. I mean, Wyatt is a tough act to follow. He was really good at what he did."

With that business out of the way, talk turns to Sheila, with Quinn remarking about how Sheila seems to have a real fondness for Eric and the life they shared in the past.

Later, Katie is alone in the office with Ridge and Quinn. 

Katie: "Okay, well, I'm going to go check in with Nicole." Good luck getting anything out of that zombie.

Quinn: "Katie. I want to say thank you for helping to save my life. I am so grateful to you. More than that, I'm hoping that this preoccupation with me and Ridge is finally over. I'm hoping we can turn the page on it and move on, because I think, I know that it would be for the best, especially for Eric."

Katie: "You know what? You're right. No more veiled threats. No more blackmail. You two don't have anything to worry about from me." Show of hands who believes her? This 180 doesn't ring true with me, but time will tell.

Katie leaves, presumably to find Nicole, leaving Quinn and Ridge alone.

Ridge: "So you're really okay with this? Katie returning?"

Quinn restrains from pulling a face: "She seems excited."

Ridge: "That's not what I asked you."

Quinn: "I think it's important to Eric. I think he feels like he mishandled things with Katie and he wants to show her how grateful he is for what she did."

Ridge: "And now she has a job that's better suited for her. And I believe her when she says she's not gonna be a problem for us anymore."

Quinn: "I think so, too. I think for the first time, this chapter is behind us. Eric isn't gonna find out. Our secret is safe." Famous last words.

Over at SP, Wyatt is shocked to learn Deacon tried to get Bill to post bail for him.

Wyatt: "And why would they even allow him to post bail? My mother could be dead right now because of him."

Bill: "Oh, come on. One little bullet couldn't kill your mother. Unless it was silver. Or maybe a stake through the heart...if anyone could find one." Bill laughs, clearly amused with himself.

Wyatt sighs, exasperated, "Not funny."

Bill: "It's a little funny." 

Wyatt: "No, it's not funny! She's my mother! She could have been killed, Dad!" And she could have killed Deacon. How convenient for her that everyone keeps forgetting that little detail.

Bill: "You know what? You're right, Wyatt. I'm just so used to taking potshots at her." He smirks: "Of course, other people take gunshots." I had to laugh at that.

Wyatt is appalled and asks him to stop.

Wyatt: "Seriously?"

Bill: "That was good."

Wyatt: "She's not the same woman that you always love to hate."

Bill: "I don't hate your mother. As much as I used to." Ha!

His grin fades and Bill turns very serious here: "But I'm not for one second buying any of that transformational garbage that you're selling. Quinn's on her best behavior because she has her she-claws nice and deep into that sucker Eric, who treats her like a queen." Exactly.

Wyatt: "You treat Brooke like a queen. You treated Katie like a queen when you guys were married." I think Katie might question that.

Bill: "You know, how about that? I mean, Katie saves Quinn after Quinn fired her. Now, I know my ex-wife has a big heart, but after what Katie did, your mother owes her big time."

Wyatt: "Look, I know mom's not high up on your list of people you like."

Bill: "She's not on my list at all." He's on a roll today.

Wyatt sighs: "Okay. But if you're hoping that something's gonna happen to her marriage with Eric-"

Bill is annoyed: "Hoping something would hap--what are you talking about? I don't give a damn about her marriage to Eric."

Wyatt: "Okay."

Bill: "But I'll tell you this. I guarantee you she'll do something to screw it up."

Wyatt: "She's totally devoted to Eric. She's not gonna do anything to mess that up, ever." She already has and she will again.

Bill gives him a "Yeah, right" look and leaves the office.

Later, Katie arrives at SP and shares the news of her new job at FC: "I realize that the primary reason why I'm back at Forrester is because I helped save Quinn's life, but this is a great opportunity, and I really want to make it work this time."

Wyatt is happy for her: "There's no reason it shouldn't. This is great. And again, I can't thank you enough for what you did for my mom. I mean, wow."

Katie laughs.

Wyatt has a realization: "This is -- so you're basically taking over my old job there."

Katie: "Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. It's just a little daunting. I mean, I started out here in marketing, but it's been awhile since I ran Forrester creations." And we all know who really ran FC back then and it wasn't Katie.

Wyatt: "Right. Like the influencer content, the mobile marketing, the psychographic segmentation, all that. Moneyball on Madison avenue. The fun, exciting stuff." Katie stares at him and it's clear marketing has changed a lot. 

Katie: "Um, I mean, I will admit that the digital realm is a little outside my wheelhouse. I was hoping that I could, um, pick your brain a little bit."

Wyatt is surprised: "Are you asking for my help?" Katie grins in return.

Of course, because how else are TPTB going to launch Watie, because it's pretty obvious that's the direction this is headed. Which is not to say I'm opposed to it (I wanted Datie far more) but Wyatt deserves some attention and maybe some sexual healing will make LemonHeads less sour. Stranger things have happened. Not to mention Bill's reaction, which should be good for some laughs. I have a feeling, though, it won't be quite the fireworks now that he's married to Brooke.

Speaking of, Brooke is wrapping up a meeting at the only restaurant in town, Il Giardino. She looks absolutely gorgeous in a red wrap dress. The hair is better but still in need of a fresh cut/color. Marriage (to the right man) clearly agrees with her.

Her lunch guest leaves and she is stunned to see Sheila standing in front of her.

Sheila: "Hello, Brooke. I figured you'd be surprised to see me."

Brooke is wary: "What are you doing here, Sheila?"

Sheila: "I can't believe I ran into you (I can), but I am so glad that I did.  I want to apologize for everything that I did to hurt you."

Brooke keeps her guard up: "Look, I know what happened with Quinn, that you were falsely accused. But that doesn't mean-"

Sheila finishes for her: "That all would be forgiven. No and I wouldn't expect it to be given my history, but I was disturbed back then, deeply so."

Brooke: "And you're not now?"

Sheila: "I have many regrets, mistakes I've made, people that I've hurt, but I'd like to focus on the good times, being married to Eric, the pride that I felt being Mrs. Eric Forrester. Squandered that all away, didn't I? At least now he has a wife worthy of him. She is, isn't she?" Brooke never did have a very good poker face and Sheila, a master at reading people, immediately zeroes in: "Brooke, you don't like Quinn?"

Brooke doesn't answer so Sheila presses her again about not liking Quinn.

Brooke: "I didn't say that."

Sheila: "Well, not in so many words, but I did notice a little reaction. She's a good wife to Eric...isn't she, Brooke?"

Brooke sidesteps, standing, her clutch in hand: "Look, I've got to get back to Forrester."

Sheila smiles: "No, no,  of course you do. I didn't mean to tie you up here. It's just I have so much to apologize for, not that I expect any kind of acceptance. But I'm really glad. I'm glad I got the chance to tell you how sorry I am. And, Brooke, thank you. Thank you for letting me speak to you." Brooke gives a tight smile then walks away, clearing a little rattled by Sheila's appearance and to think, they started off as good friends, united against a common enemy, Stephanie.

A few moments later, a fellow patron accidentally bumps into Sheila, who snaps, "Would you watch it?!?" Leopards, spots, and all that.

Later, Brooke is back at FC and is chatting with Eric in the CEO office.

He reveals that Katie is back to work and she agrees marketing is a much better fit for her.

Eric asks after her lunch meeting: "I gather the meeting went well, uneventful?"

Brooke: "Yeah, it was good. Until Sheila showed up." Eric looks surprised that she's still in town. "Believe me, I was as shocked as you probably were when you first saw her. She was oddly pleasant and happy that she'd bumped into me."

Eric: "Apologizing for her past sins?"

Brooke: "She seemed genuine. I mean, as genuine as Sheila can be. And she was genuinely concerned about you."

Eric: "About me?"

Brooke: "Your well being. She even questioned Quinn as your wife." You can tell Brooke is thinking that the longer Sheila sticks around, the more likely she is to uncover the truth.

Back at the restaurant, Pam and Charlie are ordering lunch and Charlie is continuing his comments about Quinn. Pam is fed up with it and tells him he's in "hot water" with her.

Charlie: "Look, I'm just keeping my eyes peeled. We got to look out for Eric."

Pam: "But it's the way you're going about it."

Charlie: "If it was anybody but Quinn. I mean, trouble follows that woman like a tick follows a tock."

Pam can't disagree with him there: "I know, I know. But it wasn't her fault that Deacon got sloshed and went gunning for her." Wasn't it?

Charlie: "It's the reason he went gunning for her...because of the way she treated him. She tossed him aside like an old rag doll." Literally. 

Pam: "Oh, please. I mean, Deacon should talk. He's a walking disaster himself.

Charlie: "Okay. But Quinn's not sporting any halos, either."

Pam hisses: "Charlie, enough! This is becoming an obsession with you! You and that silly lipstick napkin. You have to just drop it!"

Charlie: "You don't think I haven't tried? I mean, now with that setup over there now with the three of them practically living under the same roof? And then Ridge rushing to Quinn's rescue? I'm just trying to do what's best for Eric."

Pam: "If you really want to do what's best for Eric, you will stop all this silly nonsense!"

And who should be sitting at the bar, enjoying a hefty martini and this entire conversation?

Sheila, of course.

Pam's cell chimes and whatever the text is, it sends her up like a shot and telling him she has to get back to work.

Charlie stays to have lunch and Sheila decides to approach him, martini glass in hand.

Sheila: "I overheard you saying something about Eric Forrester."

Charlie: "Who are you?"

Sheila deflects from the question - for the moment. 

Sheila: "You're Charlie, right?"

Charlie: How'd you know that?

Sheila smiles: "Your ID. I couldn't help but notice."

Charlie snarks: "Also like you couldn't help eavesdropping on a private conversation."

Sheila: "Like I said, I heard you mention Eric Forrester, and you seemed concerned. So am I."

Charlie's brow furrows: "How do you know Eric?"

Sheila: "We're old friends. Can I sit down?"

Charlie: "Look, I don't mean to be rude, but I'm about to leave here." 

Sheila takes a sit: "You know what? You're concerned about Eric. But does that have something to do with his wife? I get the feeling you don't care about Quinn too much. But from what I understand, she's a loving, loyal spouse." She eyes him warmly, trying another approach: "I've got a confession. I am a sucker for a guy in uniform."

Charlie asks if she's dating someone who wears a uniform and she quips that for years, that's all she's seen. 

Charlie: "Okay, lady, riddle me this. If you're so close to the Forresters, who was that blonde who just ran out on me?"

Sheila: "She did look familiar."

Charlie is skeptical: "Mm-hmm. That's Pamela Douglas, the late, great Stephanie Forrester's only sister. And she's lived in Tinseltown for a long time now. And if you don't know her, you don't know much about the Forrester clan." He has a "take that!" look about him. Oh, Charlie...

Sheila: "Look, I've been gone a long time."

Charlie: "Uh-huh."

Sheila: "I know it seems strange, a complete stranger coming up to you like this. But you seem concerned about Eric and his well being, as am I. And if there's something going on with Eric, something with  his family, his marriage maybe, I'd really like to help, Charlie." And here come those eyes and that voice of her's that's so deadly and hypnotizing all at the same time. She whispers, "So please, tell me, Charlie..."

Good luck saying "no" to that face. Charlie looks like the proverbial deer in the headlights.

Edited June 26, 2017 by CountryGirl

[TobinAlbers]

On 6/24/2017 at 10:24 PM, Anna Yolei said:

Between Sheila and Deacon in the picture, now would be a good time to bring Amber back for a cameo, no?

I mean, I know people were sick of her once upon a time, but tell me she's any worse than Nicole's Spock impressions or Steffy's existence. 

Better yet, bring back Eric III to have a better balance of men and women on the show. He should be about Steffy and Thomas' age, so he'd easily fit in as a spoiler to either Steam or Tally when needed and maybe share some scenes with Rick.

Amber can return -  if it's to drop off Rosie with Marcus and E3 with Rick before diving off a cliff.

E3 should've been in a triangle with Aly and Oliver and a thorn in the side of Maya due to Rick looking upon the boy as his 'original' heir and a thorn in the side of Quinn in her marriage to Deacon who uses E3 to get close to Brooke again.

But TPTB has to dash dreams by killing off Forresters and ignoring history.

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

Wyatt: "She's not the same woman that you always love to hate."

Bill: "I don't hate your mother. As much as I used to." Ha!

Wyatt, Quinn kidnapped, sexually violated, and tried to kill Liam -Bill's son- on at least 3 occasions. That Bill hasn't disappeared her yet into the deepest darkest hole is the only concession he owes to you. Stop pushing your luck.

[politichick]

On 6/20/2017 at 3:12 PM, nkotb said:

 

Sorry for the above. Couldn't figure out how to delete.

Why on earth do the writers think we want to see or hear from idiot Charlie? And why is he so invested in Eric's love life? He really is an odious character. Also see that Sheila is still crazy. this I can't leave LA until I know Eric's okay is a pile of hooey. 

[La di Diva]

After today, all I have to say is although Shelia didn't shoot at Quinn the 1st or 2nd time, I'm thinking the 3rd through infinity times will be all on her.  Maybe not personally, but Sheila will be the mastermind.