B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[Greta]

Reading about duel citizenship is very ambiguous and you need a PHD in government legalese even to come close to understanding all its ramifications. But how the INS agent explained it seemed plausible. Even though Ivy's father is a U.S. Citizen it didn't make Ivy an U.S. Citizen by default because she was born in Australia. Aly had to file certain forms by the time she was 18, I believe, in order to claim her duel citizenship. With John telling her incorrectly she was also a U.S. Citizen, Ivy never filed the forms. The problem arose when she went to Paris with Liam. Ivy had only a work visa for the U.S. And needed a work visa for France. In the paperwork, for the work visa, she stated that she had duel citizenship which she didn't. That's what put her on the INS radar. If she didn't go to Paris, there would be no problem. I don't think that Bill or Steffy would have any clue about Ivy not having duel citizenship status to turn her in to the INS or even have knowledge of the paperwork filed to get the French work visa.

 

To translate the legalese, if your parents don't file your birth at the embassy by the time you turn 18, you have to apply yourself (either for a U.S. passport or a certificate from INS) and prove that you acquired citizenship through one or both parents. But you do NOT lose the citizenship status unless you actively renounce it. Ivy would never have been issued a work visa for the United States because a) if she thought she was a US citizen it wouldn't have occurred to her to get one since citizens don't need a visa to work in the United States and b) when she/Forrester applied for the visa, she would have been reviewed for eligibility and her father's citizenship would have raised questions then.  Also, you don't just state "I'm a dual citizen!" and have it accepted on any visa application; France would have asked for proof.

 

That said, eh, it's not even the stupidest storyline in soaps this week.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Greta

[Cupid Stunt]

Is the show even correct on the legal issues? My understanding is that someone born outside the U.S. to one U.S. citizen and one non-U.S. citizen is automatically a U.S. citizen as long as the U.S. parent lived in the U.S. for some amount of years. I'm pretty sure John Forrester met those years requirements.

 

John Forrester likely holds duel citizenship, but he had to apply with the Australian government for the privilege of Australian citizenship and passport. Marrying an Australian citizen doesn't automatically bestow citizenship.

 

Under the circumstances you describe, that person would still have to apply to the USCIS or a U.S. consulate in Australia for duel U.S./Australian citizenship; Citizenship is not automatically granted due to circumstances of birth.

 

Ivy (and Forrester Creations) didn't file ahead for a special employment work permit (foreign nationals that have special qualifications or skills, that a U.S. citizen is unable to fulfill) and green card approval (the issue the INS agent mentioned when Ivy filed for a work permit for her trip to Paris, and I would assume, the Amsterdam photo shoot), and she's been working for FC illegally for months. In Ivy's case, she has been identified as an illegal immigrant working without proper authorization and is to be automatically deported. In order for a legal return, she would have to jump through a million hoops, represented in absentia in federal court (she would not be allowed to return to the U.S. to plea her case in person).

 

But in Soapland, Ivy will marry a U.S. citizen to keep her ass in southern California -- the hotbed of illegal immigration -- which is another illegal action on both their parts. Whatever, it wouldn't work in the real world, but why split hairs? 

 

--Ivy marries the reluctant Liam, keeping her in the U.S.

--Liam again regrets at leisure, making Ivy miserable and salivating for Steffy.

--Steffy shakes her tail feather at Liam, knowing he can't look away.

--Wyatt grits his creepy teeth together in a smirk, vowing he will win this race to the bottom.

--Whose bottom has not been determined ... 

Edited June 11, 2015 by Cupid Stunt

[sugarbaker design]

That said, eh, it's not even the stupidest storyline in soaps this week.

 

 

Seriously, this is a CBS soap not a Ken Burns documentary.  I don't tune in to B&B for a lesson in immigration issues, I tune in for soapy, campy goodness, like Quinn's face when she found out Wyatt had designs on Steffi.

[Waldo13]

Thank you Greta and Cupid for expounding on Ivy's citizenship situation. The INS agent's explanation, though seemingly plausible, is actually based on half truths. I would imagine that TPTB read social media and thought it was necessary to give some type of explanation which the casual viewer would bye into. Ivy was first intended to be a love interest for Wyatt but with Hope leaving, TPTB needed to perpetuate the love triangle and through Ivy into the mix. Therefore, Ivy's citizenship is not an issue until TBTP decide to make Ivy into a persona non grata now that Steffy is back and make waffle boy sit on the fence with a picket up his ass. It's the same as when TPTB decided to make Maya transgender which was never an issue when she was with Carter. I don't think that TPTB think that far into the future in their SL and fly by the seat of their pants. I think that SL are whimsical and change overnight but in all fairness sometimes they have to based on unforeseen circumstances. All in all, soap land really should be watched with your brain in a jar and just go with the flow even though it sometimes makes no sense.

[CountryGirl]

Taylor wasn't always a preachy hypocrite, preachy yes, but she didn't start out as a hypocrite.  She was moral, she did do the right things, she was a classic soap heroine.  Well, until that didn't work anymore, then she was unfaithful, then she she lied, then she drank, etc etc etc.  This show isn't great to long term characters, B&B turns them into jokes (Eric), parodies of themselves (Brooke), or completely new characters (Ridge).

Oh, I think Taylor was always a hypocrite.

 

Remember how she was Caroline I's doctor and knew that it was Caroline's wish for Ridge to be with Brooke, whom she still considered her best friend, after she died? And what did the good, kind, moral, upstanding Doc do? Faster than a speeding bullet, she moved right on in on a grieving, vulnerable Ridge under the guise of "helping" him with his pain and inserted herself into his life (and bed) at every opportunity. 

 

And before that, she used first husband Blake to get the funds to put herself through quack, ahem, medical school, and then promptly dumped him once she got her M.D. Oh and she also slept with him AND Ridge in the SAME day. Wonder if she showered first?

Edited June 11, 2015 by CountryGirl

[ByTor]

That prototype lingerie looked like one of my grandma's girdles

No, it was HAWWWWWT!!!!!  Just like Steffy *gag*

 

When Wyatt was going through a list of possible men for Steffy, did I actually hear her nix Oliver because he is taken? When has that stopped her before?  In fact, taken men are what she goes after.  She certainly was interested in Oliver when he was with Hope, and now that he's with Aly, I'd think that would spur her on ever more.

[tricknasty]

When Wyatt was going through a list of possible men for Steffy, did I actually hear her nix Oliver because he is taken? When has that stopped her before?  In fact, taken men are what she goes after.  She certainly was interested in Oliver when he was with Hope, and now that he's with Aly, I'd think that would spur her on ever more.

Waffles is taken yet she's after him. I want some of whatever the writers are smoking

[radishcake]

Hey guys, I'm going to post this link to the GLAAD media reference guide  It should give you some guidance when posting about transgender characters. We follow all these positions on the site as a whole so use them as you would any guidelines we have for language.

I'd like to ask that you stop making comments about transition surgery in relation to Maya. Transgender people are much more than a sum of their biological characteristics even when they are just characters on a soap.

Thanks.

[ByTor]

Waffles is taken yet she's after him. I want some of whatever the writers are smoking

Duh, I wonder what I'm smoking that I didn't mention that :)  And Carter...too tall.  Spare me, he's a little too "built" for me but I'd still take him :) 

 

ETA...wow, that bunny means business!!!

Edited June 11, 2015 by ByTor

[radishcake]

Quote

ETA...wow, that bunny means business!!! 

It's hard finding a bunny who radiates sternness but I think I managed it! ;)

[NinjaPenguins]

I don't even think Wyatt actually wants Steffy. I think that silly ol' Chickenhead is trying to do Ivy a solid. Of course, once you taste the sweet ambrosia that is Steffy, you're forever in lust and doomed to star in cheesy musical montages for eternity. Or until Quinn forges a katana with Steffy's name on it. Whichever comes first.

Liam! Hey, Liam. I don't mean to harsh your mellow, but...well...your dad is trying to fuck your ex-wife with your dick. Pardon my indelicate language. Maybe you don't get it because waffles aren't the smartest breakfast food in the supermarket freezer. One other thing, Liam. I haven't missed your "aw shucks, why are these ladies making a big fuss over li'l ole me" duh face. Stow it.

Yay! An immigration-prompted wedding drama. Go for the cutting edge, show, and have Ivy marry Steffy.

Edited to add: That bunny radiates...nobility.

Edited June 11, 2015 by NinjaPenguins

[CountryGirl]

Liam! Hey, Liam. I don't mean to harsh your mellow, but...well...your dad is trying to fuck your ex-wife with your dick. Pardon my indelicate language. 

 

 

This. Exactly.

 

Bill is the epitome of living vicariously through his son and I've always thought Steffy went after Liam solely because he's the closest thing to Daddy $Bill. Steffy is like an itch Bill can't quite scratch, under his skin. I honestly wish they would just fuck each other already since it's so clear that's what they both want. 

 

In no universe ever would Steffy be satisfied with bland, boring, safe Waffles. He was interesting because Hope wanted him, the same with Ivy now. $Bill is much more her speed. As for Bill and Katie...the ink isn't even dry on marriage certificate #2 and he's already sniffing around Steffy again.

[sugarbaker design]

Remember how she was Caroline I's doctor and knew that it was Caroline's wish for Ridge to be with Brooke, whom she still considered her best friend, after she died? And what did the good, kind, moral, upstanding Doc do? Faster than a speeding bullet, she moved right on in on a grieving, vulnerable Ridge under the guise of "helping" him with his pain and inserted herself into his life (and bed) at every opportunity.

 

I sure do remember.  No matter how saintly and divine Caroline I was (and she was), she doesn't get to dictate people's lives, only Stephanie Forrester Sr gets to do that!  I see nothing wrong with Taylor moving in on Ridge.

 

And before that, she used first husband Blake to get the funds to put herself through quack, ahem, medical school, and then promptly dumped him once she got her M.D.

 

All that happened off screen, so we really don't know what actually happened.  We do know that Blake was a very violent man, just ask Ridge.

 

Oh and she also slept with him AND Ridge in the SAME day. Wonder if she showered first?

 

Of course she did, and she used Pantene on her luxurious mane.

[ByTor]

Remember how she was Caroline I's doctor and knew that it was Caroline's wish for Ridge to be with Brooke, whom she still considered her best friend, after she died? And what did the good, kind, moral, upstanding Doc do? Faster than a speeding bullet, she moved right on in on a grieving, vulnerable Ridge under the guise of "helping" him with his pain and inserted herself into his life (and bed) at every opportunity. 

Not only that, but she told Brooke that it was her "professional" opinion that it wasn't good for Ridge to get into another relationship (grieving process, blah blah) in order to get her competition out of the picture.  I found Taylor a manipulative hypocrite from day 1. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

people are much more than a sum of their biological characteristics even when they are just characters on a soap.

Got it. However, this statement applies to people in general. Are we not to comment on things like Carter's swollen upper body or whatever's been done to Steffy's facial area either?

 

I don't even think Wyatt actually wants Steffy. I think that silly ol' Chickenhead is trying to do Ivy a solid.

Meh, I don't think Wyatt gives two craps about Ivy. Look at the way he's always shading her to her face. I think Wyatt yet again just wants to stick his peen where Liam's has already been. Apparently it's in the Spencer DNA. Ugh, imagine what $Bill's gong to be like once Will enters puberty.

[ByTor]

And in casting rumors news -- today Christian LeBlanc (Y&R's Michael) was posting pictures and he posted one of Martha Byrne (ex Lily, ATWT) and tagged B&B. Then I looked at her twitter and she said she just joined a show and follows CBS Daytime. Then she tweeted she was eating in the CBS cafeteria and posted a picture of her and Lauralee Bell. Hmm. I wonder.

Please, please, PLEASE cast her as Dr. Holden's wife!!!

[CountryGirl]

Not only that, but she told Brooke that it was her "professional" opinion that it wasn't good for Ridge to get into another relationship (grieving process, blah blah) in order to get her competition out of the picture.  I found Taylor a manipulative hypocrite from day 1. 

Professional BS is more like it.

[Snaporaz]

And in casting rumors news -- today Christian LeBlanc (Y&R's Michael) was posting pictures and he posted one of Martha Byrne (ex Lily, ATWT) and tagged B&B. Then I looked at her twitter and she said she just joined a show and follows CBS Daytime. Then she tweeted she was eating in the CBS cafeteria and posted a picture of her and Lauralee Bell. Hmm. I wonder.

  

Please, please, PLEASE cast her as Dr. Holden's wife!!!

Are we sure she's joining a show as an actor? I thought she was a writer now. Didn't she even write for B&B a while ago?

[OhioSongbird]

OK..K..K...let me this straight. Steffy slept with $Bill (back in the day) was married to Liam and now is kissing Wyatt? Talk about keeping it in the family.

I'm from Eastern KY and that just makes me shake my head....;-)

[Anna Yolei]

Wait a minute. Could this be even possible? Is $Bill so hell bent in getting Liam back together with Steffy that he'd nose around with the INS to get Ivy deported?

It would be so much cleaner if Bill would just f*** Steffy and get it out of his system. Then Liam could date whomever he wanted to -- in peace. A ONS (insist on using protection) and it would be over. That would also render her damaged goods for both Liam and Wyatt. Bill could throw a little SP stock her way and it would be a done deal. She could be on the next early morning flight back to Parisl

Thank you. It's like TIIC insist on forcing Ivy into Hope's place and it just makes no damn sense. Bill's excuse for being Team Steffy before was that Hope was a flake that didn't put out. The worst I can say about Ivy is that she needs to stop gossiping at work,but I'll take that over Hope's complete lack of self-awareness, Ridge level of entitlement and crying "WE WAZ ROBBED!!" because she jumped to a conclusion that anyone with her history with Liam would have made. I sure hope Ivy doesn't get ruined by Steffy's return, but the batting average of characters remaining likeable longer than six months is lower than Glee's final season ratings.

[Anna Yolei]

I'd be on board with Steffy and Bill having a short affair. (I still say that after her gets his rocks off on her a couple of times the novelty will wear off and he'll dump her.) But then we'd probably have to deal with another running mascara faced Katie faux heart attack fiasco, although I could be entertained by a strong healthy Katie tearing into Steffy and slapping that smug off the bitch's face.

Katie versus Steffy an use the same tagine the Alien vs Predator promos did: whoever wins, we lose.

I can't root for either. I was able to handwave the Nick thing as her thinking she was about to die and Nick being Waffles 1.5 at the time, but after all her ongoing knife-twisting with Brooke? Just, no.

To OhioSongbird: Steffy almost slept with Bill, but then Katie walked in and they barely missed one another. I forgot the reason Steffy was going after Bill, but it had something to do with his ownership of FC.

But yeah. Some months later, she bonks her head in a bathtub and Liam rescues her, where she instantly falls in love with him...as he's dating Hope.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Anna Yolei

[ByTor]

To OhioSongbird: Steffy almost slept with Bill, but then Katie walked in and they barely missed one another.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Taylor who almost walked in on them? Or was that a different time they almost got caught? Or am I hallucinating? :) Edited June 11, 2015 by ByTor

[NinjaPenguins]

I feel like Oprah today. You're a piece of shit, Steffy! You're a piece of shit, Liam! You're a piece of shit, Bill! Also, Bill, you're fucking dead to me after calling Limp Noodle Liam and Steffy the future of Forrester Creations. I'mma help you out, Wyatt. Bill is just comfortable banging Steffy with Liam's penis; he doesn't want to waste time learning to vicariously handle new equipment. And he read the same parenting manual as Eric.

Quinn should just forge Liam a submarine. He can pilot it to Bikini Bottom and get caught in Spongebob's net with the rest of the jellyfish

[CountryGirl]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Taylor who almost walked in on them? Or was that a different time they almost got caught? Or am I hallucinating? :)

It was two separate occasions.

[Waldo13]

Déjà Vu all over again. Steffy on the couch and Hope in the garden. It's almost the exact same dialog. Waffle boy, Waffle boy what are you going to do? Should I go or should I stay? Waffle boy exemplifies if you can't be with the one you love than love the one your with.

Quinn is back in her magnificent glory. I just love the way her face and eyes light up when she is on a quest. Ivy was wise to allow Quinn to take her under her wing.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Waldo13

[Anna Yolei]

Déjà Vu all over again. Steffy on the couch and Hope in the garden. It's almost the exact same dialog. Waffle boy, Waffle boy what are you going to do? Should I go or should I stay? Waffle boy exemplifies if you can't be with the one you love than love the one your with.

Except I don't think Liam loves any woman. Back in the first Triangle of Doom,he usually was attracted to whichever Idiot Twin was giving him less drama that week. Now he has someone that is outside of that foolishness and he still strays.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Taylor who almost walked in on them? Or was that a different time they almost got caught? Or am I hallucinating? :)

I don't even remember Taylor being involved in that, to be honest. She probably did, though.

[sugarbaker design]

Quinn is back in her magnificent glory.

 

At last, a reason to watch!  I hope she gets back to her favorite hobby - terrorizing Liam!  That was some funny shit!

Edited June 11, 2015 by sugarbaker design

[CountryGirl]

Except I don't think Liam loves any woman. Back in the first Triangle of Doom,he usually was attracted to whichever Idiot Twin was giving him less drama that week. Now he has someone that is outside of that foolishness and he still strays.

I don't even remember Taylor being involved in that, to be honest. She probably did, though.

Oh she was there as $Bill was about to get what he's always wanted from Steffy - in her childhood bedroom no less.

 

And yet another perfect example of Taylor's hypocrisy - she didn't care that Steffy was chasing after after a very-married man just as she egged Steffy on with Liam when  he was engaged to Hope yet had the goal to tell Hope to back off when it was Steffy's turn on the engaged-to-Waffles-Go-Round.

[blackwing]

I'm still puzzled as to why INS is going after an Australian.  She designs jewelry for a living.  It's not like she's a particular danger to society.  I get that if she's illegal, she's illegal, but surely they have more pressing concerns.

So obviously, Liam is going to marry her to keep her in the country.  Such a tired trope.  The show already did this once before, when 18 year old Thomas married Gabriela Moreno, the cleaning lady's daughter.  She was still in high school and she wrote her new name, "Gabby Forrester" all over her spiral notebook like girls do in 6th grade.  Stephanie saw it and was all "don't get used to the name".  The actress was fired and Gabby disappeared but I can't remember if she was deported or if she got some special immigration status based on her five minutes old marriage.

 

It'd be much more interesting if Wyatt married Ivy when Liam waffles yet again.  Why must Beady Eyes Liam always be at the center of the triangle?  He's a waffling wimp.

[CountryGirl]

It would be interesting if Chicken were the one to marry Ivy vs Waffles 2.0 because the alternative is Waffles marrying Ivy to keep her in the country (and you know good and well Steffy will say that's the ONLY reason when before she returned and even when she briefly returned, Liam seemed very besotted with the Aussie). 

 

Maybe Wyatt will say "I do" instead when Waffles is 5 minutes late?

[tricknasty]

I'm tempted to call Wyatt 'Rebound Man" but Chickenhead has a certain ring to it

Edited June 11, 2015 by tricknasty

[blackwing]

Maybe Wyatt will say "I do" instead when Waffles is 5 minutes late?

Bradley loves to rehash the same crap with different peeps.  So yes.  Liam is going to marry Ivy at Eric/Stephanie/Rick's house.  The night before, Steffy's going to show up on her motorcycle and she's going to be all "But I'm FUNNNNNN Steffy, you need a night out, Cha Cha Cha!"  He's going to go to bar, Orlando will be there, he's going to wear a toilet plunger.  He oversleeps and wakes up with blue hair.  He's rushing to the Forrester house.  But before he gets there, INS shows up, with a SWAT team, handcuffs, bomb sniffing dogs and are ready to haul Ivy away.  "WAIT!" says Wyatt.  And he marries her.

[Gudzilla]

As for Ivy's immigration status you would think they would have ironed that all out before she started. If only Forrester had a lawyer or something to do that.

 

At least Steffy added " I don't want to force your hand " and " I don't want to pressure you " after saying choose me or I'll bang Wyatt.

 

Reminds me of the old days " I don't want to influence Liam's decision by telling him I'm pregnant." Followed by her running up to the waffle* as he's seconds away from saying "I do" and whispering " I'm pregnant "

 

So Bill says Liam and Steffy are the future of FC, does that mean he's commissioned a Steffy portrait for the fireplace ?

 

At first I thought Ivy was going to do the classic walk away before the part where he says no to Steffy, but the little waffle* couldn't even manage that.

 

I would hope that Ivy would refuse a green card marriage to the waffle based on what she heard today. Original Ivy was smarter than that.

 

* He's so pathetic that I now refuse to capitalize his name. :D

Edited June 11, 2015 by Gudzilla

[Albanyguy]

If Ivy's smart, she'll bypass Liam and get Wyatt to marry her. Once she's married to his brother and unavailable. Liam will suddenly discover that he loves her with the passion of a thousand burning nuns. Steffy who?

[KerleyQ]

Oh, Waffles.  You're so very, very waffle-y.  

 

Why do I have a fear that they're going to go all in with Ivy plotting with Quinn, just to throw her under the bus so Waffles can be with Steffy?  

[Hawkeye720]

From what I can gather from spoilers and some speculation based on them:

Ivy tells Liam and he agrees to marry her, but he immediately regrets it, and Steffy is PISSED. Then Wyatt and/or Ivy "discover information" that could change things, but keep a secret. My guess is they discover that she is legal, after all, but keep it quiet so Ivy can keep Liam and Wyatt can keep pursuing Steffy.

But the spoilers also say there will be an "unexpected" wedding this summer, so maybe Ivy marries Wyatt after all.

[Anna Yolei]

I'm still puzzled as to why INS is going after an Australian. She designs jewelry for a living. It's not like she's a particular danger to society. I get that if she's illegal, she's illegal, but surely they have more pressing concerns.

So obviously, Liam is going to marry her to keep her in the country. Such a tired trope. The show already did this once before, when 18 year old Thomas married Gabriela Moreno, the cleaning lady's daughter. She was still in high school and she wrote her new name, "Gabby Forrester" all over her spiral notebook like girls do in 6th grade. Stephanie saw it and was all "don't get used to the name". The actress was fired and Gabby disappeared but I can't remember if she was deported or if she got some special immigration status based on her five minutes old marriage.

Taylor spoke to the State of California on her behalf or something and she got to stay in the country.

Something that should've come from Stephanie, given she was the one that bumped her mother off, after all.

[grisgris]

Random responses here:

 

About the time Caroline 1.0 died, was when Taylor suddenly switched from being an oncologist to a psychiatrist and was providing her version of "grief support" to Ridge. (That wasn't explained at all on the show. It just happened.)

 

Steffy was trying to get FC back from Bill, so she would always show up at his office to flirt with and unmercifully tease him. (One time she showed up in a trench coat with nothing on underneath it.) It escalated to the point where she showed up at the beach house where Bill and Katie were living while Bill was home alone. She kept pushing and finally he grabbed her and that was when he said the infamous, "You lit this match, Now it's gonna burn!" and dragged her into the bedroom. They were on top of the bed when Katie unexpectedly came home and Steffy hid under the bed until she could sneak out. That was when she stole Kate's engagement ring and used it to blackmail Bill into turning over FC. That's what got FC back into Forrester hands. Nothing to do with strategy and intelligence.

 

The second time Bill and Steffy were rolling around on top of Steffy's bed in Taylor's house and Taylor came home and walked in on them and threw Bill out.

 

Gaby was the daughter of Stephanie's housekeeper, Helen. Stephanie and Helen were in a car accident and Helen was killed. Thomas married Gaby to keep her in the US and Taylor and Ridge were beside themselves. Taylor was constantly on Gaby's case -- no sex, you're ruining Thomas's life etc. Then, in a complete 180, we found out that all along, Taylor had been lobbying whomever in Sacramento, to make Gaby legal. She got to stay in the US under the conditions that she divorced Thomas and moved away to go to college. (Financed by Stephanie.)

 

My loathing of Liam is renewed. It makes it appear that Ivy really hasn't meant that much to him all along if Steffy could so easily lure him back to her. I noticed that Steffy was using a lot of pages from Brooke's old playbook with Ridge, with the memories, "we lost a child," destiny and a bit of Taylor thrown in "I want our life back." /eyeroll

 

WTH didn't Ivy march right into the cozy little conversation and set Steffy straight?

 

Liam just plain disgusts me.

 

I'm curious to see how this all works out. Quinn can't really go after Steffy, as she wants Steffy for Wyatt. That means Liam must be her target and Ivy will be collateral damage. I still hope it twists around somehow to make Quinn angry at Steffy and torment her!

[LittleIggy]

Got it. However, this statement applies to people in general. Are we not to comment on things like Carter's swollen upper body or whatever's been done to Steffy's facial area either?

 .

Yeah, and what about free speech as long as it isn't hate speech. Bunnies don't like censorship.

[Artsda]

Liam is still his waffling self. I don't get why he's Bill's golden child when he is so wishy washy.

[radishcake]

Re: Questions about free speech/can we talk about someone's plastic surgery:

I'm pretty sure that you guys can tell the difference between free speech and misogynist borderline transphobic comments about Maya. If not I'll be disappointed but we'll act on a case by case basis.

[Amberosia]

Well, for me, the time has finally rolled around when a story arises where I finally have no dog in the fight, so I'm a teamless spectator. It doesn't happen often, and I'm always caught by surprise when it does.

There a checks and strikes against all participants in this kerfuffle.

-Bill is still in dead-to-me territory for the Maya media mess (which kills me to say because I actually like Bill and his unrepentant ways). I can not get behind this fixation of Steffy and Liam getting together,or why he feels the need to choose Liam over Wyatt in the vicarious shagging department. Though much love to the poster(s) who mentioned Bill wanting to bang Steffy with Liam's junk and not wanting to learn how to do so with Wyatt's equipment. It's funny cuz it's true.

-Wyatt is in no man's land with him for Nicole, and I don't even like her. But I like him, so I doubt he'll stay there long. I would be faster if he grew his hair out some and packed some meat on them bones. Once again, I don't understand this fixation with Steffy, he can't possibly know her well enough for all this. Is he just infatuated with the idea/reputation of her?

-Liam... you fickle, disloyal, spineless, butter-slathered bastard of a man... I cut him so much slack in the past in that endless vortex of suck with Hope, but honestly. He really is all about whatever girl is in his face that second. There was a time when I REALLY wanted he and Steffy to work. Now, I really don't know anymore.

-Steffy... I can't help it, I like her. Much like Amber and Quinn, even when she's wrong as a three dollar bill, I'll still like her. That said, I'm not fond of the way she came back. I didn't like the down-with-Rick attitude she came in with when she didn't have to put up with any of it. Did she and Rick even speak directly the last time she breezed through?

-Ivy seems to have a lot on her plate, and I rather love Quinn strong-arming her into friendship against her will. She could do worse, and Quinn is definitely one you'd rather have for you than against. After all her bring-it-bitch talk to Steffy recently, I was rather disappointed in her that she just slinks away with her tail between her legs to quiet cry on the porch. I just knew she was gonna storm in all "Let's talk now" and stuff.

All in all, its weird not outright despising any players. I'm curious to see how long it lasts for me. At the moment I can see any combination having the potential to work, I just wish Liam and Wyatt didn't have to get back on bad terms.

[Whitley Trillbert]

Is it bad that I have been thinking lately that somewhere down the line we find out Liam isn't actually Bill's son, and really Thorne's like they thought at first.....(remember it was between Thorne Bill and Ridge...) That's the only way I feel like this toxic Steffy/Liam crap would be resolved once and for all knowing she was once involved with her half- cousin........

I feel like that would also be good material for Don DIamont and Darin Brooks to play as Wyatt rips Bill apart for favoring Liam all those years cause he thought he was his son

[blackwing]

That would never happen, because it would mean that Bradley would have to write actual story for Thorne. And it appears he despises Thorne.

Interestingly, they prefer to just ship him off to Paris rather than fire the actor outright like they did with Hunter Tylo. I wonder what he would think of this change in leadership and whether he felt slighted once again when Eric chose Rick over Ridge. And now the brother he resents the most is CEO. I notice that Aly (the little she is onscreen) never talks about him. It's as if she has no parent anymore.

[ByTor]

Gudzilla, I loved your entire post! 

As for Ivy's immigration status you would think they would have ironed that all out before she started. If only Forrester had a lawyer or something to do that.

Yeah, and I loved their lawyer's advice of "I'm not an expert in immigration law, but I'd do what they say".  How about "I'm not an expert in immigration law, so I suggest you hire yourself one"?!?!?! 
 

I would hope that Ivy would refuse a green card marriage to the waffle based on what she heard today. Original Ivy was smarter than that.

 Maybe losing a few brain cells is a direct result of sex with Liam.  Look at how stupid Hope & Steffy have become :)
 

WTH didn't Ivy march right into the cozy little conversation and set Steffy straight?

 See above re: brain cell loss.
 

-Wyatt is in no man's land with him for Nicole, and I don't even like her.

Gotta love when Wyatt was telling Quinn about Steffy that he hasn't felt that way in a long time. You mean not since you said that exact thing about Nicole about a week ago?  I do think, however, this is better proof than DNA that Liam and Wyatt are related.

Edited June 12, 2015 by ByTor

[Joimiaroxeu]

Is it bad that I have been thinking lately that somewhere down the line we find out Liam isn't actually Bill's son, and really Thorne's like they thought at first.....(remember it was between Thorne Bill and Ridge...) That's the only way I feel like this toxic Steffy/Liam crap would be resolved once and for all knowing she was once involved with her half- cousin........

I wasn't watching much yet when Liam showed up. Was there not a DNA test done? Seems odd $Bill would just take whoever's word for it. Oh wait, he just took Quinn's word it about Wyatt, didn't he? I agree, it could be an amazing story for Bill to find out one or neither of those guys is his kid, especially with all the mini-letter opener necklace nonsense.

 

I'm pretty sure that you guys can tell the difference between free speech and misogynist borderline transphobic comments about Maya.

Not sure that's a reasonable assumption to make. However, if I've posted stuff about Maya that has been interpreted as misogynist and borderline transphobic, I apologize.

[CountryGirl]

There was a paternity test done on Liam. I was rooting for Thorne to be the dad, too, and think Liam looks more like Thorne anyway plus it would give WH a storyline.

 

There was no such test done on Wyatt. IIRC, Quinn was in her teens and a virgin when she got hooked up with Bill so he didn't question that Wyatt was his. 

 

But LOL at Wyatt and Liam being related due to their propensity for this:

 

[radishcake]

I did not call out anyone or any post specifically on purpose. The GLADD guideline was posted as a helpful guide for conversation about this issue since there were some comments that walked a fine line and I wanted to give you guys the benefit of the doubt re: making comments you didn't see as problematic. I'm pretty laid back as a moderator and I trust you guys to be smart and take note of things I ask you to be aware of. Especially since I don't ask you very often.

So to end this conversation in thread please take it to PM now if you need clarification. I'm always available there.

[Amberosia]

You know, I completely forgot Thorne was in the running for paternity of Liam. I wanted so much for Thorne to be his father, I was all kinds of disappointed when it turned out to be Bill. Thorne seemed pretty disappointed, too.

I am surprised Bill has never demanded a test on Wyatt, but I guess Bill knows the dirt he's done in the past. It's not that I doubt it, especially with the way Quinn acted on arrival.

[Artsda]

Since Thorne and Steffy are biologically related, he's out of being Liam's father.