B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[Waldo13]

I’m sick and tired of guys like Z and Lurch that think with their little heads and not the one on their shoulders. Lurch knew that Caroline was depressed and drinking when he thought her would cheer her up by playing hide the salami.  Did Lurch know that Caroline was on the pill so he didn’t have to use protection?  The same for Z, did he assume Luna wasn’t a virgin and using birth control so safe sex was not required?  To me, Luna did look like she didn’t have all her wits about her and if she was a better actress that would be more prevelent.  Even when Luna said that she was waiting for you, he took it to mean damn the torpedoes and full speed even though Luna has shown no romantic interest in Z before. Luna bailed out on Z’s romantic dinner when she knew it wasn’t RJ that invited her.  X should have understood that being in bed naked and ready to play hide the salami, with Z, wasn’t completely out of Luna’s normal behavior.  I blame Z more than Poppy or Luna for the misunderstanding night. Z should have been more cognizant of what lay before him.  It’s like holding a gun and shooting someone because you thought the gun wasn’t loaded. 

[Soapy Goddess]

Whenever a subject is on the fence, half are going to see things one way and the other half are going to see it another way.

The point is that BOTH Zende & Luna AGREE that what happened was a consensual mistake and NEITHER of them are blaming the other. That's all that matters here! You can feel all the outrage you want, but that's not the scenario as agreed by the two involved.

[SweePea59]

Oh, I'm pissed at Ploppy and RJ. Ploppy for being a sneaky dishonest addict and RJ for annoying the fuck out of Luna-tictac. She told him she didn't feel well, so what does he do? He texts her non-stop. If I told someone I didn't feel well and they started text badgering me, I would either turn my phone off or put it in airplane mode, which is what I usually do. But Luna-tictac probably has a phone that doesn't have an off button or airplane mode, just like some people have cars that don't have turn signals. The only betrayal here is Ploppy being dishonest with Luna-tictac.

[bluvelvet]

RJ really needs to stop scrunching up his face. 

[KerleyQ]

10 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Whenever a subject is on the fence, half are going to see things one way and the other half are going to see it another way.

The point is that BOTH Zende & Luna AGREE that what happened was a consensual mistake and NEITHER of them are blaming the other. That's all that matters here! You can feel all the outrage you want, but that's not the scenario as agreed by the two involved.

What happened does not fit the definition of consensual. Luna was incapable of giving consent in the state she was in, and she didn't even know who she was with.  It's not remotely unusual for someone in her position to think it was consensual simply because there was no physical force, and she didn't scream "no! Stop!" There's also some element of not wanting to believe that you're a victim and not wanting to believe that this person you know and have been friends with would do anything like that to you. Not to mention that, in the immediate aftermath, Zende kept repeating to her that it was consensual, while she was more focused on her own guilt over what she views as cheating on RJ than she is on the realities of consent. So, sure, she can agree with Zende that it was consensual, but that doesn't make it true. Neither of them is using that term accurately. At the point in time when it happened, she thought she was having sex with her boyfriend. She did not want to or consent to having sex with Zende. 

[Anna Yolei]

On 2/17/2024 at 6:52 AM, TVForever said:

For those that believe Zende assaulted (or worse, raped) Luna, consider this:

You're a 20 something guy who has made your feelings clear to the object of your affection. She's your cousin's GF. Shady? Yes. But still...

You come home to your room to find her naked in your bed, saying, "I was waiting for you."

I considered it.

Putting aside any real world legality, B&B relies on this dubious consent trope waaaay too much to be entertaining any more, if it ever really was in the first place. Didn't TIIC have to walk back and retcon that Caroline knew it was Ridge because it was so unpopular that a woman who has previously been assaulted was put through that yet again? And that was back in the late 80s, six or seven years after America lost it's collective shit over Luke and Laura's wedding.

I'm no prude and there have been affairs and ONSs I've enthusiastically rooted for. But between Caroline I/Ridge, Ridge/Brooke, Thomas/Caroline II, Eric/Brooke that the show has never even had Brooke be horrified about except for the inconvenience that Bridget's paternity was in doubt, not to mention the horror of Quinn taking advantage of a sick Liam, or the time Thomas drugged Liam, or how Andy raping Brooke was treated as yet another Bridge reunion tour, or the time World Renown Psychiatris™ Taylor boning Ridge after he took pills she didn't know about and probably other examples I can't recall....God, I'd sincerely welcome Liam waffling between Hope and Steffy till the heat death of the known universe if it meant I never had to sit through such a story again. Or at least one not done in the same exact fashion as so many others before it.

 

[hypnotoad]

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The point is that BOTH Zende & Luna AGREE that what happened was a consensual mistake and NEITHER of them are blaming the other. That's all that matters here! You can feel all the outrage you want, but that's not the scenario as agreed by the two involved.

But isn't this just the writers giving themselves an out for this horrid storyline? Just because Luna is agreeing with Zende that it's a consensual mistake, doesn't mean it is consensual. All it means is she is going along with that story and isn't going to get authorities involved. However, legally a person who is under the influence cannot give consent.

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B&B relies on this dubious consent trope waaaay too much to be entertaining any more, if it ever really was in the first place.

This. Dubious consent is a good way to put it. The characterization of all these scenes as misunderstandings is just incredibility insulting and gross.

And the thing is, it would have been very simple to write the story as Luna feeling torn between these two guys. To her being attracted to both and allow her to have scenes building relationships with both. B&B loves triangles almost as much as sexual assault, so why not just write it as a genuine triangle right from jump?

As it is, sure Zende didn't know Luna was drugged but darn well knew she wasn't acting at all in character. She has been very clear with this dude about her feelings for RJ. Zende absolutely knows Luna is with RJ - that's not been in question - so it is super creepy for him to just jump her bones like he did.

[KerleyQ]

3 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

As it is, sure Zende didn't know Luna was drugged but darn well knew she wasn't acting at all in character. She has been very clear with this dude about her feelings for RJ. Zende absolutely knows Luna is with RJ - that's not been in question - so it is super creepy for him to just jump her bones like he did.

This. Every single time he's made any kind of romantic overture, she's shot him down and reiterated that she loves RJ and is committed to him. He literally just gave it another shot earlier that night, and she was not receptive. There was no winking. No "maybe I'll see you later," nothing that indicated she was considering taking him up on that. And nothing in the way she's conducted herself the entire time he's known her would give him the idea that she was a cheater. When he found her in the guesthouse, she was out cold, she was very clearly drowsy when he woke her up. He didn't take two seconds to make sure she was fully awake and coherent. He didn't take a few seconds to say "did something happen to you and RJ?"  His generation has a better understanding of consent than older generations used to have. He absolutely should have taken the time to make sure everything was OK. I know he's been pining over her for weeks and all, but that doesn't clear him from being responsible about the situation. 

Side note on that pining - when are we supposed to think he actually started having some level of romantic feelings for her?  Because we all saw his interest in her start as a way to get one over on RJ. (That, BTW, makes this whole thing even ickier to me. He started pursuing this much younger woman strictly because he was pissy that his cousin was getting a better opportunity at work, and than that pursuit led to this.) 

[Anna Yolei]

4 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

But isn't this just the writers giving themselves an out for this horrid storyline?

Yes. Just like two days later, Caroline II was assuring Thomas he'd done nothing wrong after how horrified she was after she woke up.

Thomas at least had the decency to wait longer than a week before entertaining the idea of a relationship still, which is more than I can say for this shit show now. 

4 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

Dubious consent is a good way to put it.

This term originated in fanfic, and while it's not my jam, I will say that when I do see it used there it's often for fantasy situations like, say, Kirk and/or Bones needing to boink Spock through his Ponn Farr while awaiting rescue from the Enterprise or some other scenario where it's clear that all parties involved wanted it but perhaps not at that exact time.

That said, Brad Bell isn't a 70's Spirk zone writer or a 90s Mulder/Sculley fan or EL James writing Twilight porn in 2008 or a 20-something Reylo thirsting over Adam Driver and/or Daisy Ridley on AO3 but the head of the most watched soap opera in the world....and to quote Spiderman, with great power comes great responsibility. I might have already mentioned how his father scrapped the planned WTD story for Drucilla out of respect for the Black actors who stressed the optics were really, really bad, especially in the mid 90s.

Fiction doesn't affect reality but it can sure reinforce the ideas people largely believe for better or for worse. I'm sure I don't need to cite the statistics about the overwhelming number of assaults come from people the survivors knew, or the fact that not always violent. Too often we get coerced because it's faster than arguing or trying to fight.

And trying to sell this as "Well Luna says it okay, so it's fine!" just ain't cutting the mustard. People barely bought it in 1989 with Cridge  1.0 and the biggest reason people were willing to let sleeping dogs lay re: Thomas in the 2010s was because it seemed he was working to turn over a new leaf and fix himself until Bell Thanos-snapped that away when MA was cast (it didn't turn that Bell turned Caroline nuts on her way out either and Thomas got a brief taste of his manipulator medicine)

It's passé and tiresome like the other three plots in rotation.

[Anna Yolei]

2 minutes ago, Anna Yolei said:

It's passé and tiresome like the other three plots in rotation.

Forgot to add, saw this on Twitter and My God 👏👏

Just... absolutely no notes 😂

 

[Soapy Goddess]

8 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

But isn't this just the writers giving themselves an out for this horrid storyline? Just because Luna is agreeing with Zende that it's a consensual mistake, doesn't mean it is consensual. All it means is she is going along with that story and isn't going to get authorities involved. However, legally a person who is under the influence cannot give consent.

Probably, but it's better than having people hate the character of Zende. IOW, if some people are so outraged & offended that the characters have agreed it was consensual mistake, imagine how upset the public would be otherwise!

I'm not sure Luna is going along to get along either. She's a pretty strong character judging by how she chastised her mother. I would think if she felt the slightest bit taken advantage of, she would voice that to Zende.

Agree with your last line, BUT Luna didn't know that she was under the influence at the time. She sincerely believed that she was making love with RJ, and didn't realize what happened until she & Zende woke up the next morning. IMO, we have to take that at face value, whether we like it or not. It's not up to us to make that judgment...especially when both parties share the same opinion.

[Skarzero]

5 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

BUT Luna didn't know that she was under the influence at the time

So she was somehow able to properly give consent because she didn't have 100% awareness that she was drugged?(as if she would that being her first time being exposed). Just because she didn't know doesn't mean Zende couldn't put 2 and 2 together to avoid making a "mistake" by getting in bed with his cousin's girlfriend. 

6 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

She sincerely believed that she was making love with RJ, and didn't realize what happened until she & Zende woke up the next morning.

What you just described was not a consensual mistake. Nothing about that was a normal series of events made by a person in their right mind. Luna & Zende are both unreliable narrators. They can't be trusted to tell the truth as we saw it happen. Luna shares the same (incorrect) opinion out of fear & guilt. Not because it's true. Luna doesn't want to accept what happened for a variety of reasons & Zende likely doesn't want face consequences of his haphazard, thoughtless actions. 

7 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

IMO, we have to take that at face value, whether we like it or not. It's not up to us to make that judgment...especially when both parties share the same opinion

Whether we like it or not sweeping this under the rug is not the way to go here. 

Also, not for nothing, Bradley is the one that wrote this. Created this scenario, and implicated Zende in this manner. Not calling that out just to spare Zende(a character no one, to my recollection, really cared about until he started shitting on R.J & creepily hounding his girlfriend as revenge), would be also be absolving Bradley for doing this shit yet again, and that's unacceptable.

It's 2024, and if there was no excuse 40+ years ago pre #metoo then there definitely isn't any excuse now post #metoo. We as the audience are well within our rights to pass judgment on garbage, repetitive, misogynistic writing as we see fit. 

[hypnotoad]

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BUT Luna didn't know that she was under the influence at the time.

BUT she knows now and knows she couldn't consent and knows she thought she was with RJ and not Zende and knows why she thought that! And the writers still have her spouting lines about agreeing this was a consensual mistake!

She was drugged, she cannot consent to sex. Period.

And I am sorry but again, Zende is more than aware of her disinterest in him. He is more than aware that she loves RJ. He is more than aware she hasn't shown ANY romantic interest in him. And yet? He had sex with her.

He knew darn well all of that night was out of character. He had to have noticed something wasn't right but let's pretend he didn't notice her being out of it. He still should have wondered wtf was going on. He still should have stopped and thought 'gee this isn't right to do to RJ.' But nope, Zende just had sex with her.

These writers are utterly gross to repeatedly go back to this same type storyline again and again.

[Peppermint]

On 2/17/2024 at 11:06 AM, SweePea59 said:

Luna-tictac 

Dead !!!!

Due to the ongoing controversy about the "rape/not rape" storyline [and y'know they read these posts...] is there a chance that the PTB will ret-con the entire scenario into a dream sequence with Luna waking from her drugged state and discovering it's all been a delusion ?? 

We CAN have nice things, no ??

[KerleyQ]

12 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Agree with your last line, BUT Luna didn't know that she was under the influence at the time. She sincerely believed that she was making love with RJ, and didn't realize what happened until she & Zende woke up the next morning. IMO, we have to take that at face value, whether we like it or not. It's not up to us to make that judgment...especially when both parties share the same opinion.

Respectfully, consent isn't an opinion. There is a legal definition, and that legal definition does not include "thought she was with someone else."  Just because Brad Bell wants to play fast and loose with it, so he can have his "misunderstanding nights" without permanently branding one of his characters a rapist, that doesn't change the fact that consent involves being aware of exactly what you're consenting to. Luna didn't know who she was with. She gave consent to sex with her boyfriend RJ. She did not give consent to sex with Zende. What happened between them fits the legal definition of sexual assault. And Bell would be doing better by Zende (now that the deed has been done) to have his angst be about realizing that fact and questioning what kind of man he is instead of him having a sad that Luna still doesn't want him. 

Edited February 19 by KerleyQ

[bluvelvet]

Soo..am I the only one who thinks Deacon just painted a target on Hope’s back which may come to fruition. 
 

Edited February 19 by bluvelvet

[hypnotoad]

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We CAN have nice things, no ??

In my experience watching this show? No. I never get nice things!

[Anna Yolei]

6 hours ago, Skarzero said:

Also, not for nothing, Bradley is the one that wrote this. Created this scenario, and implicated Zende in this manner. Not calling that out just to spare Zende(a character no one, to my recollection, really cared about until he started shitting on R.J & creepily hounding his girlfriend as revenge), would be also be absolving Bradley for doing this shit yet again, and that's unacceptable.

Bolding mine, because if Zende was targeting someone not sharing DNA with Brooke a more popular character--Thomas, for instance--or being a creep towards Steffy, more people would call this misogynistic, backtracking, two-sided trash for what it is.

FTR, I couldn't care less about RJ and yes, he's being pushed with little in the way of character. It sucks, but he's not the first overly propped pet of Bell's, nor will he be the last. That's no excuse for turn off our thinking caps and be as critical about this as people have been for any other examples. I don't remember people ignoring what Thomas did to Caroline because it was propping Ridge or side sweeping Quinn's behavior towards Liam despite what an absolute pill of a character he is.

3 hours ago, Peppermint said:

Due to the ongoing controversy about the "rape/not rape" storyline [and y'know they read these posts...] is there a chance that the PTB will ret-con the entire scenario into a dream sequence with Luna waking from her drugged state and discovering it's all been a delusion ?? 

They've never done so for any other plot that's met the same backlash, so I doubt it. But even if they do, the damage of having dipped into this well again has been done.

I'd rather that if they MUST do this plot yet again, that they reckon with it like this: 

1 hour ago, KerleyQ said:

And Bell would be doing better by Zende (now that the deed has been done) to have his angst be about realizing that fact and questioning what kind of man he is instead of him having a sad that Luna still doesn't want him. 

...but that would mean a man on B&B actually took accountability for his actions and we can't have that, no ma'am! 🙄

 

58 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

Soo..am I the only one who thinks Deacon just painted a target on Hope’s back which may come to fruition. 
 

Hope's hypocrisy of sticking her vajayjay into crazy aside, I just do NOT see what Deacon gets out of being with Sheila, knowing full well that she fully intended to kill Brooke if not for Taylor tackling that psycho and giving Brooke time to move.

[KerleyQ]

2 hours ago, Anna Yolei said:

Hope's hypocrisy of sticking her vajayjay into crazy aside, I just do NOT see what Deacon gets out of being with Sheila, knowing full well that she fully intended to kill Brooke if not for Taylor tackling that psycho and giving Brooke time to move.

And that she fucked over Brooke more recently with the champagne, which ended up including Deacon in the plot to fuck with Brooke's sobriety and relationships. I honestly can't remember if Deacon being a part of it was something Sheila planned, or if it was just a happy accident that he ended up being there when it went down, but, either way, it ended up involving him. And considering how hard he was working back then to be a part of Hope's and Brooke's lives, it really could have fucked him over and damaged those relationships. 

[Waldo13]

Hope give it up on Deacon being with Shiela. Why being with Lurch any different? You’re convinced Lurch has changed but it’s impossible for Shiela to change.  Deep down inside they are two very sick psychopaths. 

I know I’m beating a dead horse, but Z stop putting the blame on Poppy.  You didn’t give 💩💩 about RJ because you waned what his girlfriend to prove you are the better man.  Z please please shut the fuck up and take that pole out of your ass.  You keep blaming Poppy but it was your uncontrolled desire to do the nasty with Luna. 

If Luna tells RJ, his reaction should be upset with Z and not Luna or Poppy. 

 

[Anna Yolei]

1 hour ago, KerleyQ said:

 I honestly can't remember if Deacon being a part of it was something Sheila planned

It was a happy accident that did maximum damage but you're right that if Deacon is at all serious about a relationship with Hope, regardless of her bullshit with Thomas, he'd be nowhere near Deacon.

Would be a good time to bring back Amber to maximize her history with both of them, though.

[nilyank]

5 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

Soo..am I the only one who thinks Deacon just painted a target on Hope’s back which may come to fruition. 

I mean if Sheila shoots at Hope and instead hits Thomas , I won't be heartbroken.

Edited February 20 by nilyank

[KerleyQ]

Deacon, Jesus. Wake up and smell the crazy.  Did you not see Sheila instantly go into crazy eyes mode when you started suggesting you put off announcing your engagement or getting married?  You may as well have strapped a missile on her back and aimed her right at Hope. 

Speaking of Hope, I'm sorry, but I cannot sit here and watch her lecturing Sheila about how she hasn't changed, when she's busy fucking Thomas on almost as flimsy of a "changed" basis. And Thomas has actually abused Thomas, along with, of course, letting Hope believe Beth was dead, so he's specifically been a threat to her children before, which should be at least equal to having been a threat to her mother (oh, wait, he also framed her mother for a fake CPS call and knew that Sheila was the one who slipped her real booze to get her to fall off the wagon). Yes, she's right about Sheila, but she's likely wrong about Thomas, and since she's doing the same damn thing her father is - letting her hormones lead her to the crazy, she is not one to talk to Deacon. (It would be kind of cool if Beth was a tween or older and she was the one imploring both her grandpa and her mother to stop fucking the crazy.) 

Luna, if you do actually tell RJ, I'm guessing you're going to botch the telling. Here's how you do that - ask him to let you speak until you get it all out. Start by reminding him of how you weren't feeling well at the party, and then introduce the "mints" and that mix up. Then you progress to how you went into the guesthouse to get water and somehow ended up passing out in the bed. Then get to the part where you thought he came to you, and you were so happy to see him, and the two of you made love. Then the morning after and how you found out what happened with Zende and then found out from your mom what you had accidentally taken. Instead, I'm guessing you're just going to let the guilt flow over you and just lead with "I had sex with Zende!" 

Finally, was it me, or was that some kind of weird chem test of Zende and Poppy today?  

[Soapy Goddess]

The writers wrote what they wrote for one thing only...and that's DRAMA. This is what soap writers are paid to do. And guess what? We're all arguing over it, so it's working. Otherwise, we wind up with another boring soap couple, which folks will still bitch about.

The only thing left for me to say is that there was a very quick scenario at the party where Zende was suggesting that they might just build a friendship. He also said if you change your mind about anything "let me know". Luna nodded/agreed. Whether she did so to be polite, or actually thought they could be friends, we can only speculate. Obviously, Zende took it positively. Hence not second-guessing Luna's advances. And contrary to popular belief, some of us did not see his actions with malicious intent. 

 

[hypnotoad]

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And contrary to popular belief, some of us did not see his actions with malicious intent. 

And contrary to perhaps your belief from responses here, I have no issue with your opinion or interpretation with what happened on screen and I respect your opinion.  I just don't happen agree with you overall!

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The writers wrote what they wrote for one thing only...and that's DRAMA. This is what soap writers are paid to do.

Well sure but my opinion is as paid writers they ought to be able to bring drama to the show without sexual assault. It can't possibly be that difficult, In fact I find this route incredibly lazy. Because this isn't the first time this show has gone down this particular road. It's not even the 2nd time. We are currently at roughly the 6th or 7th time and that's sad and again lazy.

Do I think there was malicious intent in Zende's actions? I never typed that and after thinking about it some, I'd agree and say no there wasn't.

However, he certainly wasn't thinking about RJ or Luna's feelings. He knows without a doubt they are together. He knows without a doubt she has no romantic interest in him. He knows she might consider building a friendship (which for most folks wouldn't mean sex). And yet he did what he did.

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I just do NOT see what Deacon gets out of being with Sheila

I agree! Sadly it just keeps Sheila around and I really hate that! Free Deacon!

[La di Diva]

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Then you progress to how you went into the guesthouse to get water and somehow ended up passing out in the bed.

@KerleyQ -- I agree up to the 'somehow ended up passing out in bed' part.

Luna didn't just lie down because she was feeling unwell and pass out. She took off all her clothes, climbed into bed naked, and passed out/ fell asleep.

How would she explain that to RJ?  How would she explain the getting naked part?  Who goes to get water and strips off their clothes?  Last but not least -- the mansion has a kitchen -- why go to the guest house for water?

Edited February 20 by La di Diva

[KerleyQ]

1 minute ago, La di Diva said:

@KwrlwyQ -- I agree up to the 'somehow ended up passing out in bed' part.

Luna didn't just lie down because she was feeling unwell and pass out. She took off all her clothes, climbed into bed naked, and passed out/ fell asleep.

How would she explain that to RJ?  How would she explain the getting naked part?  Who goes to get water and strips off their clothes?  Last but not least -- the mansion has a kitchen -- why go to the guest house for water?

I was going with the "somehow ended up" thing presuming that she doesn't really remember all of those details. 

As for the water, she was already outside and saw the water through the window of the guest house. And, well, she was drugged and not thinking straight, so, in that state, all that registered was "I'm super thirsty, and there's some water." 

People who are drugged don't make rational decisions. 

[bluvelvet]

So I see Thope is now also on the obligatory propping of  RJ/Luna. 
 

I hope that new drawing means a new line, I’m so sick and tired of HFTF and frankly it’s way past time for Hope to transition out of that line. 
 

I will forever  😒 the writers for making Thomas so evil when MA came back. He just works so well with AN. I’m sorry I find them too cute 🥰. 

We could’ve done without RJ walking in on his bro/sis making out. 🫤

RJ looks odd when he’s sketching. He has a terrible posture. 
 

Also while pocket sized Runa may fit on a couch, it don’t work or Thope. They’re on the taller side. 
 

ETA:Zende wtf ? Just let it be. 

Edited February 20 by bluvelvet

[norcalgal]

2 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

I will forever  😒 the writers for making Thomas so evil when MA came back. He just works so well with AN. I’m sorry I find them too cute 🥰

This!!!  In fact, I can’t think of any other pairing in this show where I felt the two actors had more romantic chemistry than MA and AN.  Anyone else feel the same?  (Suggestions for other smoking hot pairings welcome).

[Waldo13]

Between the flashbacks of Z and Luna than Lurch and Hope, I had to make myself a Pepto Bismol cocktail to relieve my heartburn, nausea, upset stomach, and diarrhea. 

Seeing Z and Lurch within minutes of each other is further evidence that they are brothers from another mother.  Like Lurch, Z can’t blame himself for anything that happens. Someone else is responsible for the things they do. 

Et tu Luna. Take a little responsibility for being a Luna - Tic Tak and your obsession with breath mints. 

Excuse me but I’m the only one who thinks that Z is Lurch in disguise.  Z is using the exact same tactics to woo Luna as Lurch use to woo Hope. 

I just had to mix another Pepto Bismol cocktail because of Z.  Go ahead Luna, tell RJ that you slept with Z and you rather be with him. I would love to see if Z can fly when he gets throw out of the window. By the way, does Luna know about Nicole and what he did to fuck up their marriage?  Maybe just maybe he had a roving eye when they were married.  

There is one last thing I have to say it’s that Z actually shows no regrets what he has done to Luna and RJ. He wanted Luna and he “took” Luna. This quite evident with telling Luna it was fate that brought them together and she should move forward with him. Fuck Z. If Luna moves on with Z, I’m out. Not that I’m a big fan of RJ, but another Lurch is intolerable for me. 

[KerleyQ]

I'll say that I think AN and MA used to have chemistry, before they started hooking up. Now, their only chemistry, to me, is that the two of them are both game to put on a show for their sex scenes. Fully clothed, though? They seem super awkward. Thomas seems like he's way too earnest about trying to be someone he isn't, and Hope veers from uncomfortable to trying too hard to make this more. The only conversations they have are "I love you and only you. I want you to put that ring on your finger, because that's where it belongs," and "I care so much about you, but I'm not ready yet. But this is so great." It's like Bell found a way to make the repetitive dialogue thing even worse by giving it to two characters instead of just one. No soap couple has ever been entertaining while having the same exact "we really want to be shmoopy" conversation about their feelings over and over and over and over and over. It's not quite to "cha cha cha" levels of embarrassingly repetitive, but it's going to get there soon. 

All their chemistry, to me, was in the tension before anything happened.  The way AN looked at him sometimes really drove that chemistry (which, now that I think of it, the chemistry may all be Annika. I don't think I've seen MA's Thomas have chemistry with anyone other than his mother). But she's not looking at him like the forbidden fruit anymore, and it's really kind of killed off what I was seeing. 

[Chatty Cake]

Zende trying to talk a crying Luna into being with him was disturbing. He seemed to feel bad about what transpired between them last week but  now he thinks it’s a good idea to pressure her into dating him because oh well, accidental mint mishaps happen.

Edited February 21 by Chatty Cake

[hypnotoad]

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In fact, I can’t think of any other pairing in this show where I felt the two actors had more romantic chemistry than MA and AN.  

They are a meh for me. I mean I'm glad Hope has escaped Liam (for now) but I just do not like her with Thomas.

Of couples currently on screen, I guess they are the best the show has but that is faint praise from me and there isn't much to pick from!

In the past, my favorite Brooke pairing ever was with Thorne. They were awesome. She also had a ton of chemistry with Deacon but that story was pretty icky!!

I loved Wyatt and Katie so naturally it ended. I loved currentRidge and Caroline II, so naturally it ended. I loved Quinn and Carter so naturally it ended. Even Wyatt and Hope were pretty good so naturally it ended. Bill and Katie had chemistry at the beginning but that ended a long time ago. Bill and Brooke were hawt but naturally this show ruined them (remember Bill choosing Skye over Brooke? Skye of course was a building. Good times).

[Anna Yolei]

6 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

I will forever  😒 the writers for making Thomas so evil when MA came back. He just works so well with AN. I’m sorry I find them too cute 🥰. 

I could've found them cute at one time too. It's pointless to continue harping on this point five years later I suppose but we could've just had Thope in *any* other way and the fandom would've went for it in even bigger numbers  because no one was that ride or die for Lope in 2019 anymore.

Instead, they did this and sure, it's got it's fans, but imagine how much better this could have been if the development from his short lived relationship w Sally had carried over to really make him stand out against Liam? :(

4 hours ago, norcalgal said:

In fact, I can’t think of any other pairing in this show where I felt the two actors had more romantic chemistry than MA and AN.  Anyone else feel the same?  (Suggestions for other smoking hot pairings welcome).

Liam and Quinn couldve been smoking hot too but....welp.

Can't have nice things on this show 🫠

10 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

In fact I find this route incredibly lazy. Because this isn't the first time this show has gone down this particular road. It's not even the 2nd time. We are currently at roughly the 6th or 7th time and that's sad and again lazy.

Next to the blasé way of handling assault itself, this has been the most offense aspect for me. I feel like most shows except maybe Days have had three or four such stories over the entire run of their shows and even at the peak of the abuser-to-lover pipeline in the 80s, most were given the weight they deserved, including B&B, where Caroline's story with Ron was focused on her independence and Y&R where the first of Nikki's many accidental killings involved her gross ass father who was trying to attack her (according to Wikipedia, that was way before my time). With Y&R, the only such story I can recall anywhere recently was Victor sending a Jack doppelganger to fuck Phyllis and she was allowed to be rightfully angry about it towards Victor. That was back when Gina T. was in the role, so that was....eight or nine years ago?

Yet we get something along these gross ass lines ones every four years on average and if not flat out rape or a "misunderstanding," it's something adjacent to it, like the Steam molly shit. Regardless of morality or legality or the bad optics of the show ruining one of its few legacy characters of color, it's as overdone as any of B&B's old three staples and I feel like even those who side w Zende would agree that it's time to do anything else.

Guess we'll see if Bell takes any notes from fans when he does it again in 2028. Guess Douglas will be old enough to take up his father and grandfather's mantle and as much as I love that kid on screen, it depresses me to even think about likely inevitability. :(

[Skarzero]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:50 PM, Anna Yolei said:

because if Zende was targeting someone not sharing DNA with Brooke a more popular character--Thomas, for instance--or being a creep towards Steffy, more people would call this misogynistic, backtracking, two-sided trash for what it is.

Yeah pretty much....It's also jarring to see Thomas & Steffy wholly absent while their kid brother is essentially being bullied by their older cousin, when they've sunk their fangs into people over far less*. It would be smarter to have Zende has a problem with all of Ridge's children, and not just the one he has with Brooke. That would make for better drama, than the shit we have here. 

I don't care about R.J either, he went from being underutilized to shoved in our faces everyday in 2 seconds. However, unlike the more popular characters(his non-Logan relatives), so far he doesn't have a penchant for criminal activity, manipulative behavior, or being unnecessarily mean. His worse offense is being played by a.....not a great actor to put it midly. Which could've been done on purpose as not to risk upstaging Thomas/MA. But that's a can of worms I won't open right now. But for real, outside of that, what's to hate? 

*I don't root for Ridge or his taybrats on the best day, but in this case they'd be well within their right to exercise some of that impenetrable plot armor of theirs and use it for good. Because as of now, Zende's character would do well from a humble session or two.  

17 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

The writers wrote what they wrote for one thing only...and that's DRAMA. This is what soap writers are paid to do. And guess what? We're all arguing over it, so it's working. Otherwise, we wind up with another boring soap couple, which folks will still bitch about.

Viewers still talked about this shit show either way. Having Luna be drugged & then sexually assaulted by her boyfriend's cousin only changed how we're talking about it. If the ratings are that abysmal then like @hypnotoad said, how & why is having the 70th "misunderstanding" in a row the only way they could think to generate drama viewers would talk about? Wasn't the discourse/buzz of Thope was getting that job done anyway? 

Even for Bradley Bell logic this is trite, fucked up & not really worth defending(but different strokes & whatnot), because he's a hack. And assuming we aren't put out of our misery via cancelation first, he'll just pull this shit again because well...someone has to like it. Or so he thinks 🙄

[bluvelvet]

RJ's sweater....

Imma leave that there....just marinate on that...

[SweePea59]

2 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

Zende trying to talk a crying Luna into being with him was disturbing. He seemed to feel bad about what transpired between them last week but  now he thinks it’s a good idea to pressure her into dating him because oh well, accidental mint mishaps happen.

That scene was so weird I was actually laughing out loud at it. Who are these people? I have to ask if AI is writing these storylines because people just don't act like this.

28 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

RJ's sweater....

Imma leave that there....just marinate on that...

And that's what I came here to post about. Where in hell's closet did he find another ugly-ass sweater even uglier than his last one? Did I see the outline of a bunny on his sleeve?

Edited February 21 by SweePea59

[Artsda]

Thomas and Hope are the best thing this show has. 

[norcalgal]

1 hour ago, hypnotoad said:

They are a meh for me. I mean I'm glad Hope has escaped Liam (for now) but I just do not like her with Thomas.

Of couples currently on screen, I guess they are the best the show has but that is faint praise from me and there isn't much to pick from!

In the past, my favorite Brooke pairing ever was with Thorne. They were awesome. She also had a ton of chemistry with Deacon but that story was pretty icky!!

I loved Wyatt and Katie so naturally it ended. I loved currentRidge and Caroline II, so naturally it ended. I loved Quinn and Carter so naturally it ended. Even Wyatt and Hope were pretty good so naturally it ended. Bill and Katie had chemistry at the beginning but that ended a long time ago. Bill and Brooke were hawt but naturally this show ruined them (remember Bill choosing Skye over Brooke? Skye of course was a building. Good times).

Decent shout outs on these pairings, but for me, AN/MA is still the most smoking hot. I bolded the pairings I felt also had chemistry, but just not smoking hot.  YMMV…

[RuntheTable]

I'm just going to stay out of the whole consent/nonconsent discussion; I find the SL so offensive I don't want to give it any cred by commenting on it. 

But I do have an observation, something that has been bothering me about the whole mint switcheroo. I went back and rewatched the episode where it happened, and they show Luna emptying out her purse and her mints where in a tin with what looks like peppermint printed on top. Poppy uses a small, round pill case that looks nothing like the square tin Luna carried. I question why Luna would pull that round case out of her purse and take them knowing that was not her mint tin? 

And I will say that having Zende now encouraging Luna to leave RJ and hook up with him is just so fucking ridiculous. Zenda is a good looking, talented, well-connected guy, but he is willing to start a relationship with a girl who he knows is in love with his cousin?

17 hours ago, norcalgal said:

 (Suggestions for other smoking hot pairings welcome).

My picks would have to be:

Darla and Bill Spencer

Maggie and Dylan

Brooke and Deacon

Brooke and Thorne

Brooke and Nick

Eric and Jackie

 

[La di Diva]

My votes for smoking hot will always be #1 Brooke and Deacon, and #2 Brooke and Thorne.  Breacon were incendiary and absolutely on fire. They burned through the screen.

I'd follow these 2 couples with Quinn and Carter.

Brooke and Ronn Moss Ridge were pretty together, but I didn't find them smoking hot

Brooke and Sludge are a drowned pile of dead wet ashes.

[Cool Breeze]

For heat?  Quinn and Carter.

For pretty? RM's Ridge and Taylor; RM's Ridge and O.G. Caroline.  Honorable mention to Brooke and Thorne.

[bluvelvet]

I’m flabbergasted at Liam. How many times will he tell Steffy to leave Finn before he realizes that his milkshake doesn’t bring all the girls to the yard anymore 

[Anna Yolei]

15 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

I’m flabbergasted at Liam. How many times will he tell Steffy to leave Finn before he realizes that his milkshake doesn’t bring all the girls to the yard anymore 

I'd argue that "his" milkshake  never really did and that both of them hooked to him for many other reasons: Hope because he was a decent guy who hadn't fucked her mother, unlike her last boyfriend; and Steffy because by her own onscreen, in-canon admission, he was a huge get as Bill Spencer III and the fact he was with Hope was added incentive. Steffy to her credit seem to grow up from that immature thinking after Kelly was born, gaining the sense that her mother never did and despite the... divisive way Hope has gone about it, even she has no use for him any longer now that she's no.longer being defined by Brooke's history.

It could've been anyone Steffy and Hope took the piss outta one another for, really.

[backhometome]

How would Steffy leaving Finn make her safer. Hayes still exists. Its not like Finn would be out of her life for good. They share child together. Who is also a grandchild of Sheila. Makes no sense. 

Liam is pathetic and needs a non Hope/Steffy love interest. Neither is interested in his waffling behind. 

[Anna Yolei]

21 minutes ago, backhometome said:

Liam is pathetic and needs a non Hope/Steffy love interest. Neither is interested in his waffling behind. 

Before they bother with that, they need to completely go back to the drawing board and reimagine this character from top to bottom. His motivations haven't made sense in years and the only love interest he's ever had that was the best of both worlds, he dumped the minute Steffy came back into town waving her fixed up oven in his face. I suspect any other love interest he's be paired will meet the same stupid fate otherwise.

[Tippi]

For pretty I definitely agree with Cool Breeze: Ridge and Taylor during their courtship, and Ridge and Caroline OG.

A more recent pairing that had a lot of chemistry was Pierson Fode's Thomas and Courtney Hope's Sally.  What a shame that one got cut short.

I really don't like how painted into a dumb corner Liam is.  I think SC is one of the better actors on the show and to have him be one of the most hated characters by the fandom must be super frustrating for him.

[Waldo13]

Z you don’t give 💩💩 about anyone but yourself. Luna by not telling RJ is more beneficial to him not Luna and RJ. I still can’t believe RJ wouldn’t hold Luna or Poppy responsible but put the total blame on Z.  

 It’s looks like Luna is going to keep Z a secret but as you know, secrets don’t always stay secrets when partial door appears when you least expect it. 

Stuffy, what is your malfunction?  Not to defend Shiela but she didn’t seek out Kelly, Kelly was just in the same place as Shiela. You just could have Lucy leave with the kids but you just had to confront Shiela.  

 

Stuffy’s friend Lucy is played by Amanda Kloots of the TV show The Talk. Her husband, Nick Cordero, an amazing actor/singer of Broadway Theater fame, died 4 years ago of Covid.  Amanda’s real son, Elvis, is playing her little boy. 

 

[Artsda]

Why must RJ and Luna be on everyday?  Obviously she'll get pregnant and WTD coming. 

I think Sheila is a sociopath who belongs in jail but Steffy was the crazy today.  Kellt came to her, the conversation was brief and Steffy assaulted Sheila after being asked to leave.. She should have told the friends mom what was off limits like places and allergies. 

[Snaporaz]

This is one of those annoying small details, but it really bugs me that Liam has to return something that Kelly left behind pretty much every time she spends the night with him.  You'd think he'd learn to ask, "Hey Kelly, do you have your backpack/ favorite stuffed animal/ book you need to finish your homework?" before she leaves.