B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[kia112]

I have no doubt whatsoever that Hope is fully aware of Wyatt's motivations. What I think is that on some level, whether consciously or subconsciously, Hope wants Liam to know, to understand, to feel the pain of betrayal. To experience the sting of feelings that don't matter. To wrestle with the helplessness of watching someone you love fall under the spell of another's manipulations.

Isn't that what she's been doing for the past year?

Edited August 1, 2014 by kia112

[luvlee2003]

How Hope sees some kind of grand romance out of this dysfunction is beyond comprehension.

 

She get it from her mama © juvenile

[catalogrrr]

Hope's hair is looking worse and worse.

Those are extensions, right? Her hair has always distracted me. It looks like it belongs on a doll's head.

[MulletorHater]

 

I am really concerned now. It looks like Deacon and Bill will be going at it over Brooke; I am ok with that. My fear is that it is going to be the new excuse to crucify Brooke as the bad Logan with all the degenerates sniffing at her heels. While across town, the local hero and his fiance/wife, are living a life of unquestionable dignity. Of course that is the same scenario we had with Taylor for decades, but Taylor wasn't Katie. As much as I loved Brooke, I was still able to sympathize with Taylor. That will never happen with Katie, because as soon as she opens her mouth and starts spewing her venom any softness I feel for her flies right out the window. Taylor also genuinely loved Ridge, something I will never believe applies to Katie, who saw her shot at the big prize and siezed it. And no doubt Ridge was on board; Logan had to pay for not waiting for his return. How dare Brooke give up on their destiny, and deny him his stewardship of her life. Then again, Ridge is going to exercise that right whether Brooke wants his interference or not.

 

I do wish Brooke would set boundaries with people.  Any discussion about her relationship with Bill should be off limits--especially with people who have an obvious agenda.  She needs to decide if she deserves better than Bill.  If she believes she does, then more power to her, but her "something better" shouldn't be an unemployed (from what I can tell) ex-convict and alcoholic who blames others for his bad choices.  The only thing Deacon should be discussing with Brooke is his relationship with Hope.  And guess what?  Hope's an adult and Deacon is free to see her; it doesn't have to be in Brooke's house if she's uncomfortable with it.  Nor, should Ridge have carte blanche to come and go as he pleases under the guise of visiting RJ.

 

I am also concerned that Deacon sounds a bit delusional when he takes the position that he "deserves" a chance with Brooke.  Based on what exactly?  It would be different if she had been corresponding with him while he was in prison and holding out the promise of a life together when he got out.  This also prompts me to ask, whatever happened to the Alphabet Kid?  You know, the one Deacon claimed he wanted to spend more time with while he was in Genoa City blackmailing Amber into bed; conning and bedding Nikki while jeopardizing her sobriety; screwing Phyllis behind a trash dumpster; and trying to get into Victoria's silken panties?  Or, are his kids only important to him at any given moment depending on when he's trying to get their mothers into bed.   I realize that some "returning citizens" do change and go on to be productive members of society, but I suspect the only thing that has changed about Deacon are his underwear.

 

I'm actually more concerned that the human oil slick and his smirking slattern won't be able to generate the heat necessary to convince the audience that they are a super couple.  Enter Big Bad Brooke to add angst complete with Bridge teases and we have the same old wash, rinse repeat nonsense that has traumatized me for years.

[Anna Yolei]

Of course that is the same scenario we had with Taylor for decades, but Taylor wasn't Katie. As much as I loved Brooke, I was still able to sympathize with Taylor. That will never happen with Katie, because as soon as she opens her mouth and starts spewing her venom any softness I feel for her flies right out the window. Taylor also genuinely loved Ridge, something I will never believe applies to Katie, who saw her shot at the big prize and siezed it. 

You nailed it: the original Triangle of Doom worked because all the players involved were sympathetic. Taylor was always a hypocrite, but her feelings for Ridge were real. Katie's only in it to stick it to Brooke, and that in itself could be a story if she would own the shit or someone other than Brooke would point this out.

Speaking of Doomed Triangles, I agree with Kia112 upthread. If this is subconcious on Hope's part, it's been over a YEAR of this waffling crap. As much as Liam deserves his just desserts (since God knows so few men on this show ever get anything close to a taste of their own medicine), it was long past time to get off the shitter.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Those are extensions, right? Her hair has always distracted me. It looks like it belongs on a doll's head.

Yeah, it doesn't look entirely real. I also keep wondering if she's got a gigantic mole or birthmark because she never appears without her bangs swept across her forehead to the side. Seems like she's trying hide something on her face.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Joimiaroxeu

[LittleIggy]

Hope has the nerve to say that Liam is overreacting when that is what she did when she saw Liam talking to Steffy (the scene Quinn engineered). I don't like St. Hope and wish Liam would find someone else, but I don't want to see him "lose" to Chicken Head and his psycho mama.

[Anna Yolei]

The funny thing id, KMa had much longer hair when she first appeared four and a half years ago, and that definitely looked like her own hair.

If anyone on the show needs extensions, it's KKL--not even for lenght, but for fullness and so her ends don't look as brittle as they sometimes do.

[RuntheTable]

Isn't that what she's been doing for the past year?

 

 

I didn't see it that way. I won't flat out deny that there might not have been some payback in Hope's mind, but what I saw was someone who realized that there was more than one guy in the world, more importantly, maybe more than one guy for her. I saw someone who was enjoying being the center of two guys lives, having them fight over her, being the only one since Steffy was MIA. Then, after deciding to be with Wyatt exclusively, Liam decides he can't handle it and gives Hope an ultimatum; it's both of us or I am outta here. Really? Had it been me, I don't know if I would have laughed, given him an energetic single finger salute, or just waved and walked away. Hope caved however, and in doing so gave Liam power over her personal choices. Now, here again, he is giving ultimatums to Hope about something she feels strongly about; something that really has nothing to do with him. If the damn diamond is about the line, and business, and what is best for FC's, then that is what it is. If Hope only wears it for promotional purposes, and is not sporting it around town, and gets it housed at the boutique, then what is the friggin big deal? It is the HFTF diamond right? Then who the heck are you going to give it to? Rebecca of Sunnybrook farm? I see it as nothing more than a continuation of this show demonstrating that women are not capable of making their own choices, and if they do make them, and their man doesn't like or agree with the choice, then the woman has to change to suit what he wants. What I was saying in my earlier post was that maybe this is where Hope draws the line. She has acquiesced to all of Liam's demands, she waited in the wings for years while Liam romanced Steffy as her pleas fell on deaf ears, so maybe she has had enough and wants to show Liam how it feels to want something so bad, and have that desire thrown right back in your face.

 

I'm actually more concerned that the human oil slick and his smirking slattern won't be able to generate the heat necessary to convince the audience that they are a super couple.  Enter Big Bad Brooke to add angst complete with Bridge teases and we have the same old wash, rinse repeat nonsense that has traumatized me for years.

 

 

Oh no, they wouldn't. Please say they won't. The thought of it is unbearable, because no matter what shape it takes, Brooke is going to be the vixen sniffing around forbidden territory, and Katie will be seen as the victim once again. I don't want a Brooke/Deacon reunion, because were can that go really? At the same time, I don't see Brooke forgiving Bill, and if she did, all the pertinent players would castigate her back into seclusion for taking back the man who won't take Ridge's shit lying down. I just have a bad, bad feeling about where this is going with Brooke.

 

In agreement about the hair. Brooke's hair has looked bad for a very long time; too yellow, dry, brittle, and appears very thin. Hope's hair has always been rather spectacular, but recently the ends look like snakes rearing up to strike.

[IOU Payne]

Liam is pissed off because Wyatt gave her a huge honkin' diamond.  Why do I keep singing "If you like it then you shoulda put a ring on it" every time he mentions that.  Did Floating Emily Post Head come and give him an etiquette lesson on gifting? 

 

Fuck a duck. I get so pissed off every time a woman is robbed of her voice and her agency on this show (not that Y&R is any better....)

[Cindylou]

I loved Hope and Liam in the beginning before he was pushing for sex and giving her ring to Stephie......   then he got all "you don't understand"   "she's just a friend"  "it's not what you think"  "it's innocent" blah blah blah.  He shit all over Hope's concerns and ended up with Shephie time and time again, NOW he has the nerve to pull this crap of Fire him now and give this pricesless diamond back (btw, um hello, if someone gave me a priceless diamond i'm keeping that crap, if he's willing to give it and not asking me to marry him and giving it free and clear I'm taking it call me crazy)

 

If Liam loves her and trusts her he'd trust her..... and their "true, perfect love"  blah

[ByTor]

if someone gave me a priceless diamond i'm keeping that crap, if he's willing to give it and not asking me to marry him and giving it free and clear I'm taking it call me crazy

Call me crazy too, I couldn't agree more!

[kia112]

I didn't see it that way. I won't flat out deny that there might not have been some payback in Hope's mind, but what I saw was someone who realized that there was more than one guy in the world, more importantly, maybe more than one guy for her. I saw someone who was enjoying being the center of two guys lives, having them fight over her, being the only one since Steffy was MIA. Then, after deciding to be with Wyatt exclusively, Liam decides he can't handle it and gives Hope an ultimatum; it's both of us or I am outta here. Really? Had it been me, I don't know if I would have laughed, given him an energetic single finger salute, or just waved and walked away. Hope caved however, and in doing so gave Liam power over her personal choices. Now, here again, he is giving ultimatums to Hope about something she feels strongly about; something that really has nothing to do with him. If the damn diamond is about the line, and business, and what is best for FC's, then that is what it is. If Hope only wears it for promotional purposes, and is not sporting it around town, and gets it housed at the boutique, then what is the friggin big deal? It is the HFTF diamond right? Then who the heck are you going to give it to? Rebecca of Sunnybrook farm? I see it as nothing more than a continuation of this show demonstrating that women are not capable of making their own choices, and if they do make them, and their man doesn't like or agree with the choice, then the woman has to change to suit what he wants. What I was saying in my earlier post was that maybe this is where Hope draws the line. She has acquiesced to all of Liam's demands, she waited in the wings for years while Liam romanced Steffy as her pleas fell on deaf ears, so maybe she has had enough and wants to show Liam how it feels to want something so bad, and have that desire thrown right back in your face.

 

I think it can be both and.  I do think that she was discovering that Liam wasn't the only man in the world, and I also think that she was manipulating situations in her "who me?" way to give Liam his payback.  I think she even laughed in his face at one point last year when he was complaining about the time that Wyatt spent with Hope.  I think that fact that she did cave showed that her being with Wyatt wasn't just all about this connection she felt with Wyatt.  When she had her pregnancy scare and Liam gave her that ultimatim and she caved, she kept saying over and over that a big reason the pregnancy scared her was because she realized that it would actually be over for good with Liam.  And I'm like, "Oh, so you knew it wasn't over when you broke up with him?"  And that is the difference between what Liam did and what Hope is doing (for me).  Liam is a lot of undesirable things, but he never intentially set out to hurt either one of them and I think that's exactly what Hope has been doing.  I don't think she should have stuck around for the Liam-Steffy merry-go-round, but she's the one that chose to find that behavior acceptable.

 

But truthfully, I wish they would all get away from each other because this story is dumb.

[Joimiaroxeu]

if someone gave me a priceless diamond i'm keeping that crap, if he's willing to give it and not asking me to marry him and giving it free and clear I'm taking it

The free and clear part is the big "if", though. I think the only way it could work is if the giver died immediately after bestowing the gift. Otherwise, sooner or later it's almost guaranteed that they'll be throwing it back in your face that they gave you a priceless gift so you "owe" them. In the case of Wyatt I think it's 100% guaranteed. He knows it, Hope knows it, and Liam knows it.

 

Liam is a lot of undesirable things, but he never intentially set out to hurt either one of them and I think that's exactly what Hope has been doing.

I think Liam deliberately tried to hurt Hope when he gave Steffy her (Hope's) engagement ring less than 24 hours after she'd taken it off. No matter what she may say about having forgiven him for that ish, I think Hope was (and maybe still is) looking for some payback and boom, there was Wyatt.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Joimiaroxeu

[thewhiteowl]

The free and clear part is the big "if", though. I think the only way it could work is if the giver died immediately after bestowing the gift. Otherwise, sooner or later it's almost guaranteed that they'll be throwing it back in your face that they gave you a priceless gift so you "owe" them. In the case of Wyatt I think it's 100% guaranteed. He knows it, Hope knows it, and Liam knows it.

 

Not only a "priceless" gift but Wyatt will have saved HFTF line. She will owe him bigtime.

[KerleyQ]

I think Liam deliberately tried to hurt Hope when he gave Steffy her (Hope's) engagement ring less than 24 hours after she'd taken it off. No matter what she may say about having forgiven him for that ish, I think Hope was (and maybe still is) looking for some payback and boom, there was Wyatt.

 

 

I totally agree.  There's no way to interpret that other than him lashing out at Hope.  "Oh, yeah, well, then I'm giving Steffy your engagement ring!"  He may as well have stuck his tongue out and stomped his foot while he was at it. 

[MulletorHater]

 

Oh no, they wouldn't. Please say they won't. The thought of it is unbearable, because no matter what shape it takes, Brooke is going to be the vixen sniffing around forbidden territory, and Katie will be seen as the victim once again. I don't want a Brooke/Deacon reunion, because were can that go really? At the same time, I don't see Brooke forgiving Bill, and if she did, all the pertinent players would castigate her back into seclusion for taking back the man who won't take Ridge's shit lying down. I just have a bad, bad feeling about where this is going with Brooke.

 

 

I certainly hope that TPTB don't dip into that dry well again.  If they do, I will tune out quick, fast and in a hurry.  My foot is already halfway out the door as it is--one toe at a time.  Brooke has, and will always be, a polarizing figure.  Fine; I've accepted that for years.  But, I just hate the thought that in order to paint Katie as a victim of anything other than her own arrogance, hubris and stupidity that they will resort to the same tricks that they did in the past to create an insta-mix fan base for a character who isn't particularly sympathetic at any given moment.  The only saving grace in this scenario is the way that TK has been playing Ridge.  It's apparent from interviews that he doesn't "get" Original Recipe Ridge and would prefer to play him another way.  However, if Bradley & Co. are trying to paint Kringe as their "IT" couple, they need to generate some heat on their own and endure obstacles that don't rely on Brooke or Bill.  I also have a difficult time buying that Katie is in love with Ridge simply for himself.  Nothing I've seen onscreen thus far compels me to believe that she sees him as nothing more than a trophy that she pilfered from Brooke.  

 

I see Brooke forgiving Bill.  Why?  Because look at the shit she has already forgiven in the past, including the woman who has physically assaulted her numerous times; vindictively snatched her small children from her (with her son's help, whom Brooke went on to marry); and  facilitated her rape with depraved indifference. Now, whether that translates into Brooke taking Bill back remains to be seen.  A part of me hopes she does because it's high time that Brooke broke this cycle of being controlled by her ex-husband and his surrogates (including Eric and other "fambly" members) once and for all.  I don't see a Brooke/Deacon pairing either and I sincerely hope the writers don't go there no matter how hot they may have been in the past.

 

And, please--no more OOPSIE! pregnancies for this character!  Let's move the fuck on from that particular plot device.

[blackwing]

I think Liam deliberately tried to hurt Hope when he gave Steffy her (Hope's) engagement ring less than 24 hours after she'd taken it off. No matter what she may say about having forgiven him for that ish, I think Hope was (and maybe still is) looking for some payback and boom, there was Wyatt.

I agree as well.  Also, Liam looks like a huge hypocrite when he complains that Wyatt is interfering with Liam's relationship with Hope.  Hello, pregnancy test?  Where he refused to leave until he heard the results, and did a fist pump when she wasn't pregnant?  He was so out of line there.  

 

Also, whatever happened to "we are brothers, you saved my life, can't we all just get along".  I guess it didn't last long.  The "siblings battling over the same prize" thing is a staple of this show.  Ridge/Thorne.  Ridge/Nick.  Thomas/Rick (billed as "stepbrothers" and not uncle/nephew, what a joke).  Brooke/Katie. And now Liam/Wyatt.  It's so tired.

[politichick]

I don't see it as Liam not trusting Hope. He doesn't want Wyatt to get away with trying to be slick and being a big fat liar about accepting their relationship. Like he said, the weasel could have presented the diamond to the company and/or line; he didn't have to gift it to her personally. Now he doesn't have a say in who's hired or fired, but she does need to give that diamond back.

[MulletorHater]

 

I think Liam deliberately tried to hurt Hope when he gave Steffy her (Hope's) engagement ring less than 24 hours after she'd taken it off. No matter what she may say about having forgiven him for that ish, I think Hope was (and maybe still is) looking for some payback and boom, there was Wyatt.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that it was deliberate.  It was an act of hostility and a way to punish her for not giving in to his "charms."  And, "poor" Stuffy was running around gloating like the girl who feels proud because she gave the head cheerleader's jock boyfriend BJ's behind the bleachers.  I won't even touch on how pitiful she looked when she lost her and Lame's band-aid baby.

 

Frankly, I can't believe TIIC have found yet another way to drag this insipid and uninspiring triangle out.  Am I to surmise then that it will finally limp along to its pitiful conclusion 20 years from now?

[Anna Yolei]

I don't see it as Liam not trusting Hope. He doesn't want Wyatt to get away with trying to be slick and being a big fat liar about accepting their relationship. Like he said, the weasel could have presented the diamond to the company and/or line; he didn't have to gift it to her personally. Now he doesn't have a say in who's hired or fired, but she does need to give that diamond back.

Exactly. At least Steffy was open and honest about what she wanted, and aside from locking Hope in the gondola for the Aspen wedding, she never did anything really sideways shit to get between Lope.

[blackwing]

Exactly. At least Steffy was open and honest about what she wanted, and aside from locking Hope in the gondola for the Aspen wedding, she never did anything really sideways shit to get between Lope.

Well, there was that night before one of Hope/Liam's failed weddings.  I think Stephanie wasn't feeling well so Hope cancelled her dinner with Liam.  Liam got all needy so he called up Steffy.  They went out on the town, she wanted to show him what he would miss, how "fun" she was.  She got him drunk at a nightclub and he danced the night away with her.  He woke up with a mohawk and red hair dye and looked ridiculous.  Steffy clearly knew what she was doing, she did it on purpose.  I think she even said something about how she ensured that the wedding pictures would be memorable.

[LittleIggy]

Not only a "priceless" gift but Wyatt will have saved HFTF line. She will owe him bigtime.

The point is, IMO, that Chicken Head is using the Dope diamond as the centerpiece of his scheme to get Hope back. There are strings attached to it.

I loved the expression on his face after he took that call from the Mexican cop. He knows what his mom is capable of.

I wanted Bill to deck Dickon, but sucker punching is Stinky's MO. I loved when he called Dickon "Mugshot."

[HotPhoenix]

Please tell me that Quinn wasn't in the booby hatch and really was in Mexico to kill the owner of the Hope for the Future diamond?  I've had the feeling all along that she never went for treatment and was up to her tricks trying to get her baby in good stead with Hope.  It wouldn't surprise me if Quinn had something to do with his death, and now that the Mexican police want to speak to Wyatt, it just makes this all the more interesting. 

[RuntheTable]

But truthfully, I wish they would all get away from each other because this story is dumb

 

If nothing else, we will agree on this. I realized after the show ended that I had been watching it with mouth agape, a look of stupification plastered on my face, and I felt oddly dumbed down.

 

Liam wants Wyatt fired because he feels disrespected?

 

Ivy and Ally twittering to each other, and following the pack like two groupies.

 

Ivy unable to bear witness to the tragedy taking place in the Forrester Communal Office.

 

The recently defanged Ally, giving Hope advice on life and love.

 

Liam's prissy flounce out of the office was funny.

 

Bill's "Mugshot", and "Convict" were funny.

 

I don't know if I like Quinn's new do.

 

I suggest Wyatt get on the horn straightaway and find out if mom was at the "facility" when the mexican man died.

 

Deacon kissed Brooke and she started to kiss him back. I wish I had the ability to unsee things.

 

Is Ivy supposed to be dressed fashionably? I wish I had the ability to unsee things.

 

I am willing to suffer a week of the Ogre and his Keeper cause there ain't no fixin stupid.

[nasir jones]

I don't see it as Liam not trusting Hope. He doesn't want Wyatt to get away with trying to be slick and being a big fat liar about accepting their relationship. Like he said, the weasel could have presented the diamond to the company and/or line; he didn't have to gift it to her personally. Now he doesn't have a say in who's hired or fired, but she does need to give that diamond back.

I completely disagree.  If he trusts her and respects her as an adult who can make intelligent decisions, then he shouldn't worry about any scheme Wyatt is trying to pull.  He should believe that she'll see through those schemes too.  As far as telling her to give the diamond back, why should Liam have any say in that?  Can you imagine him demanding how Bill conducts his affairs?  Why can't he afford "the love of his life" the same respect he does with his father?  Everyone is entitled to voice their displeasure, but to demand that Hope give it back?  That just comes across as controlling.

 

Is Wyatt's acceptance of their relationship phony?  Absolutely, but so is Liam's magnanimousness after Hope chose him.

 

I cannot stomach all the "poor Liam" stuff from the Forrester women.  Where was Aly when Liam decided to bang Hope's stepsister?

[meow]

That is a hard sell in any relationship, but when it comes to Hope and Liam? I am just not going to be able to get with that. Liam had so many opportunities to tell Steffy to take a hike, and leave him and Hope alone, but he was never quite able to pull that off. Even up until their most recent failed attempt at marriage, Liam was conversing with, and fulfilling Steffy's requests. Now though, when the shoe is on the other foot, and Hope has another guy interested in her, there is a different set of rules? I hate double standards, but I particularly hate sexist double standards. I am disappointed with Wyatt right now for shoving Liam's generosity and acceptance in his face, but that is between the two brothers. When it comes to Hope, I would prefer her to be with Wyatt. When they were dating exclusively, Wyatt was not putting all these restrictions on her, and had no problem with her being around Liam, because he trusted in their relationship, and more importantly, he trusted Hope to respect their relationship. Outside of that, I feel like I am watching two people who were truly exploring each other, instead of a brother and sister, or a boring couple who had been married for 50 years. Make no mistake, I like SC, and I like the Liam character, as long as he is not in Hope's orbit. I don't know about Ivy and him yet, but I certainly felt sparks between him and Katie when he was becoming her BFF, and there was that undeniable energy between Liam and Quinn. But the writers aren't going to go there because they think they need to recreate Ridge/Brooke/Taylor with these characters; and it is my opinion that they have failed miserably.

We'll have to disagree about that was then and this is now. Liam has completely changed since then and is totally devoted to Hope. He proved it by telling Steffy no more babies with him and chose Hope at their last wedding. That video was a mistake and he said so, plus it was not done out of love and that's what counts!!

I don't see any undeniable energy whatsoever between Hatie or Quinn so I have no idea where this is coming from. Him being with either one of them would be totally gross and sick so I'm very happy they'll never go there!!

IMO Wype were all wrong because he always had to be kissing her or have his hands all over her, he was overly possessive and it was sickening. He could never leave her alone for five minutes. Then he tried twice to get her to model his nasty underwear line. If he really knew her, he'd have never asked her to do anything as disgusting as that, no bf would!! Liam isn't at all obsessed with her, nor when they're together does he always have to have his hands all over her or kissing her in the most bragaddocio way like see, she's mine!! It was disgusting and there's no need for it. He was just way too cocky and possessive with her and I LMAO when she dumped him for Liam because he always said he'd never lose her when he surely did, haha. That was a shining moment for me I tell u!! :)

I understand not liking KM but IMO she sure could carry the show!!

[meow]

I do wish Brooke would set boundaries with people. Any discussion about her relationship with Bill should be off limits--especially with people who have an obvious agenda. She needs to decide if she deserves better than Bill. If she believes she does, then more power to her, but her "something better" shouldn't be an unemployed (from what I can tell) ex-convict and alcoholic who blames others for his bad choices. The only thing Deacon should be discussing with Brooke is his relationship with Hope. And guess what? Hope's an adult and Deacon is free to see her; it doesn't have to be in Brooke's house if she's uncomfortable with it. Nor, should Ridge have carte blanche to come and go as he pleases under the guise of visiting RJ.

I am also concerned that Deacon sounds a bit delusional when he takes the position that he "deserves" a chance with Brooke. Based on what exactly? It would be different if she had been corresponding with him while he was in prison and holding out the promise of a life together when he got out. This also prompts me to ask, whatever happened to the Alphabet Kid? You know, the one Deacon claimed he wanted to spend more time with while he was in Genoa City blackmailing Amber into bed; conning and bedding Nikki while jeopardizing her sobriety; screwing Phyllis behind a trash dumpster; and trying to get into Victoria's silken panties? Or, are his kids only important to him at any given moment depending on when he's trying to get their mothers into bed. I realize that some "returning citizens" do change and go on to be productive members of society, but I suspect the only thing that has changed about Deacon are his underwear.

I'm actually more concerned that the human oil slick and his smirking slattern won't be able to generate the heat necessary to convince the audience that they are a super couple. Enter Big Bad Brooke to add angst complete with Bridge teases and we have the same old wash, rinse repeat nonsense that has traumatized me for years.

This is a very excellent post and all true!! I thought that Deacon wanting Brooke back came out of nowhere!! When he was railing that crap he spewed to Bill I was thinking what a fucking ass hypocrite. How on earth could he chastise Bill like that when he's done shit just as bad? I wanted to toss a hammer through my TV screen during his tirades at Bill. IDK if they can ever redeem Deacon enough for me to like him. I was very happy when the pic of Deacon kissing Brooke was misleading because she pushed him away. Good girl!! Bill would be very happy too. Deacon was awfully presuming when he kissed her without asking. What a piece of shit he is. I loved it when Brooke told him it was a bit late to be parents to Hope. IMO he's way too stupid to live!!

You nailed it: the original Triangle of Doom worked because all the players involved were sympathetic. Taylor was always a hypocrite, but her feelings for Ridge were real. Katie's only in it to stick it to Brooke, and that in itself could be a story if she would own the shit or someone other than Brooke would point this out.

Speaking of Doomed Triangles, I agree with Kia112 upthread. If this is subconcious on Hope's part, it's been over a YEAR of this waffling crap. As much as Liam deserves his just desserts (since God knows so few men on this show ever get anything close to a taste of their own medicine), it was long past time to get off the shitter.

IMO Katie is really in love with Ridge. I just wish that Brill and Kringe would be way out of each other's orbits and live their own lives!!

[meow]

Hope has the nerve to say that Liam is overreacting when that is what she did when she saw Liam talking to Steffy (the scene Quinn engineered). I don't like St. Hope and wish Liam would find someone else, but I don't want to see him "lose" to Chicken Head and his psycho mama.

I just spit and sputtered when she said he was overreacting. I thought WTF girl, no he isn't. You should never accept any diamond, especially one of that magnitude, from any man for any reason. It's unjustifiable, unreasonable, disrespectful, and wrong on so many levels no matter how she tried to spin it!! He wasn't being unreadable but like u said Hope certainly was at the wedding because she never stays around long enough to talk things out. All she does is run off and that makes me so mad!!

[KerleyQ]

I don't see any undeniable energy whatsoever between Hatie or Quinn so I have no idea where this is coming from. Him being with either one of them would be totally gross and sick so I'm very happy they'll never go there!!

 

 

I think this show has proven that you can "never say never."  I'm sure people thought "oh, they'd never try Ridge/Bridget!" back in more innocent times.  

[meow]

I didn't see it that way. I won't flat out deny that there might not have been some payback in Hope's mind, but what I saw was someone who realized that there was more than one guy in the world, more importantly, maybe more than one guy for her. I saw someone who was enjoying being the center of two guys lives, having them fight over her, being the only one since Steffy was MIA. Then, after deciding to be with Wyatt exclusively, Liam decides he can't handle it and gives Hope an ultimatum; it's both of us or I am outta here. Really? Had it been me, I don't know if I would have laughed, given him an energetic single finger salute, or just waved and walked away. Hope caved however, and in doing so gave Liam power over her personal choices. Now, here again, he is giving ultimatums to Hope about something she feels strongly about; something that really has nothing to do with him. If the damn diamond is about the line, and business, and what is best for FC's, then that is what it is. If Hope only wears it for promotional purposes, and is not sporting it around town, and gets it housed at the boutique, then what is the friggin big deal? It is the HFTF diamond right? Then who the heck are you going to give it to? Rebecca of Sunnybrook farm? I see it as nothing more than a continuation of this show demonstrating that women are not capable of making their own choices, and if they do make them, and their man doesn't like or agree with the choice, then the woman has to change to suit what he wants. What I was saying in my earlier post was that maybe this is where Hope draws the line. She has acquiesced to all of Liam's demands, she waited in the wings for years while Liam romanced Steffy as her pleas fell on deaf ears, so maybe she has had enough and wants to show Liam how it feels to want something so bad, and have that desire thrown right back in your face.

.

IMO it's all kinds of wrong for her to accept that diamond from any man, esp one of such magnitude, because of what it signified to Wype when they were together!! I could never do that to somebody I was committed to, ever. Like Ivy said it was very disrespectful to him and Weanie should have never put her in that position but he's so fucking selfish and only thinks of himself that he did it anyway. He knew exactly why he was doing it. Aly was absolutely right, he was using it to manipulate her because he's exactly like Steffy, a master manipulator!! Hope was trying to justify keeping it but there was no doing so because she should have never taken it in the first place!!

[meow]

Liam is pissed off because Wyatt gave her a huge honkin' diamond. Why do I keep singing "If you like it then you shoulda put a ring on it" every time he mentions that. Did Floating Emily Post Head come and give him an etiquette lesson on gifting?

Fuck a duck. I get so pissed off every time a woman is robbed of her voice and her agency on this show (not that Y&R is any better....)

I think Liam has every right to be pissed off. She should have never thought of taking that honkin' diamond for even a nanosecond. I love her but she can be so stupid sometimes!! LOL at fuck a duck.

[meow]

I think it can be both and. I do think that she was discovering that Liam wasn't the only man in the world, and I also think that she was manipulating situations in her "who me?" way to give Liam his payback. I think she even laughed in his face at one point last year when he was complaining about the time that Wyatt spent with Hope. I think that fact that she did cave showed that her being with Wyatt wasn't just all about this connection she felt with Wyatt. When she had her pregnancy scare and Liam gave her that ultimatim and she caved, she kept saying over and over that a big reason the pregnancy scared her was because she realized that it would actually be over for good with Liam. And I'm like, "Oh, so you knew it wasn't over when you broke up with him?" And that is the difference between what Liam did and what Hope is doing (for me). Liam is a lot of undesirable things, but he never intentially set out to hurt either one of them and I think that's exactly what Hope has been doing. I don't think she should have stuck around for the Liam-Steffy merry-go-round, but she's the one that chose to find that behavior acceptable.

But truthfully, I wish they would all get away from each other because this story is dumb.

I'm sick of it to some point. I'd rather they let Lope be married and happy alone for at least a couple of yrs. ITA about Hope not hanging around for the Leffy mess, absolutely, but it was her choice so I don't feel one bit sorry for her. She should have moved along with her life when they got married!! I totally disagree though that it was payback because that's just not something she does.

[RuntheTable]

That video was a mistake and he said so, plus it was not done out of love and that's what counts!!

 

 

I'm not sure if being done out of love or not is the issue with the video. The issue is that it was made at all. It was yet another example of Liam's inability to say no to Steffy. No doubt it was a mistake, and Liam felt bad about it, but only after Hope saw it, till then, he hadn't given the wrongness of it a second thought. And just how many mistakes is Hope supposed to grant Liam in this lifetime? Liam didn't see the video as wrong, or thoughtless, or inappropriate; a gift honoring their time together for his ex-wife? Hope however, has committed an unforgivable act of betrayal in accepting the HFTF diamond?

 

I don't see any undeniable energy whatsoever between Hatie or Quinn so I have no idea where this is coming from.

 

 

We will just have to disagree on this.

 

IMO Wype were all wrong because he always had to be kissing her or have his hands all over her

  

 

And that is exactly what made them a much more compelling couple. Wyatt brought out Hope's sexuality in a way Liam never has. Instead of watching someone who looked like they were going through the motions, Hope actually seemed present when she was with Wyatt.

 

Then he tried twice to get her to model his nasty underwear line.

 

 

I think that was Brooke's Bedroom.

 

Liam isn't at all obsessed with her

 

 

Oh, I must totally disagree. At least Wyatt has an excuse to be around Hope; he works with her. Liam on the other hand? When was the last time he crossed the threshold of SP's? If one didn't know better they would think he is employed at FC's.

 

Which leads me to:

 

he was overly possessive and it was sickening

 

 

Liam was the one who pressed for dual romances and equal dating time; clearly disrespecting Hope and Wyatt's relationship. Even so, Wyatt agreed. I never really saw Wyatt too concerned about Hope and Liam's time together; he was confident in what he had going with Hope, and was willing to let her make her own decision. No demands. No tantrums. No ultimatums. It is also important to remember that Hope would still be dating Wyatt had it not been for Quinn's actions. Is it really a win when you must stamp your feet, and pitch a hissy fit to get your way?

Edited August 2, 2014 by RuntheTable

[meow]

The free and clear part is the big "if", though. I think the only way it could work is if the giver died immediately after bestowing the gift. Otherwise, sooner or later it's almost guaranteed that they'll be throwing it back in your face that they gave you a priceless gift so you "owe" them. In the case of Wyatt I think it's 100% guaranteed. He knows it, Hope knows it, and Liam knows it.

I think Liam deliberately tried to hurt Hope when he gave Steffy her (Hope's) engagement ring less than 24 hours after she'd taken it off. No matter what she may say about having forgiven him for that ish, I think Hope was (and maybe still is) looking for some payback and boom, there was Wyatt.

I totally disagree that he tried to hurt her with the ring. He thought she left him at the altar aka Ajax Mountain, so why not give Steffy the slug her ring? He's never set out to hurt Hope intentionally. Hope is so not the payback type, not at all. She does run away whenever they have a misunderstanding at their weddings but IMO that's all she's done and that's bad enough!!

IMO Weanie totally took advantage giving her that ring and he even admitted it, even though he scoffed at Liam when he called his ugly ass on it!!

[Anna Yolei]

I think this show has proven that you can "never say never."  I'm sure people thought "oh, they'd never try Ridge/Bridget!" back in more innocent times.  

Ain't that the truth. Rick/Steffy was the last relationship to shock me, and even that was because of my internet being turned off and not seeing the spoilers beforehand. No one batted an eye at TWoP when Hope and Thomas dated for ten seconds.

[apbr]

IMO Wype were all wrong because he always had to be kissing her or have his hands all over her, he was overly possessive and it was sickening. He could never leave her alone for five minutes. Then he tried twice to get her to model his nasty underwear line. If he really knew her, he'd have never asked her to do anything as disgusting as that, no bf would!! Liam isn't at all obsessed with her, nor when they're together does he always have to have his hands all over her or kissing her in the most bragaddocio way like see, she's mine!! It was disgusting and there's no need for it. He was just way too cocky and possessive with her and I LMAO when she dumped him for Liam because he always said he'd never lose her when he surely did, haha. That was a shining moment for me I tell u!! :)

 

 

 I just wanted to agree with this part of Meow's post.  To be honest, he can really creep me out at times.

 

 

[KerleyQ]

I totally disagree that he tried to hurt her with the ring. He thought she left him at the altar aka Ajax Mountain, so why not give Steffy the slug her ring? He's never set out to hurt Hope intentionally. Hope is so not the payback type, not at all. She does run away whenever they have a misunderstanding at their weddings but IMO that's all she's done and that's bad enough!!

 

 

I thought he gave Steffy the ring after Hope saw him kissing Steffy and broke things off?  He thought she left him at the altar in Italy, right?  Am I totally scrambling up my history of the numerous mishaps they've had?  

 

Also, Liam runs too.  He thought she stood him up at the altar in Italy and, instead of going to find her and see if something was wrong, he went right to Steffy.  This is even after they'd already lost time together due to other various misunderstandings.  He still lashes out and rebounds to Steffy. He's no saint in all this. Not even close. 

 

And I think that things Liam has done - immediately proposing to Steffy with Hope's ring and marrying her within days, going right to Steffy when he thought Hope stood him up in Italy, and spending the night before their wedding out on the town with Steffy, were things that Liam did knowing damn well they would hurt Hope.  

 

Neither of these two is my favorite character, but given the choice between the two, I prefer Hope by far.  And it's a shame, because I love SC, but Liam is a waffling spiteful hypocritical douchebag.  

[grisgris]

I thought he gave Steffy the ring after Hope saw him kissing Steffy and broke things off?  He thought she left him at the altar in Italy, right?  Am I totally scrambling up my history of the numerous mishaps they've had? 

Also, Liam runs too.  He thought she stood him up at the altar in Italy and, instead of going to find her and see if something was wrong, he went right to Steffy.  This is even after they'd already lost time together due to other various misunderstandings.  He still lashes out and rebounds to Steffy. He's no saint in all this. Not even close.

 

And I think that things Liam has done - immediately proposing to Steffy with Hope's ring and marrying her within days, going right to Steffy when he thought Hope stood him up in Italy, and spending the night before their wedding out on the town with Steffy, were things that Liam did knowing damn well they would hurt Hope.

 

 

Neither of these two is my favorite character, but given the choice between the two, I prefer Hope by far.  And it's a shame, because I love SC, but Liam is a waffling spiteful hypocritical douchebag.

 

I have to agree 100% with the above post. IMO both Liam and Hope are immature (particularly in the area of communication) and don't seem capable of having a committed relationship and why should they? They both are only in their 20's. After Liam's shenanigans with Steffy, he had no business demanding equal time with Hope, nor giving her an ultimatum with the diamond.

 

Liam is so passive-aggressive. He nods along to situations, then all of a sudden, he will go ballistic and make unreasonable demands and throws around the threats and ultimatums. If I were Hope, I'd say "good riddance," and move on with Wyatt. Those two seem to have more chemistry and fun with one another. (Common sense says Hope should have tossed Waffle Jr. aside the first time he bolted to Steffy.)

 

I could be wrong, but I think when people say there is "chemistry" between Liam and Katie and Liam and Quinn, they aren't suggesting that Liam fall into bed with either woman. (If so, that would make for some interesting SLs.) I think they mean that whenever SC is paired with RS or HT, he exhibits more animation and emotion than he does with KM. My opinion is that both RS and HT are far better actresses than KM (granted they are older and have more acting experience) so they give SC (who is a halfway decent thespian himself) more to play off of.

 

Lastly, that diamond is one ugly hunk of rock. I laugh at the way everybody handles is so carelessly. It's shoved and pockets and backpacks like it's a prize out of a gumball machine.

 

Switching gears, I think that the plot to try to reunite Brooke and Deacon is ludicrous. That came out of left field completely. That ship sailed long ago. I liked the idea of hooking Deacon and Quinn up much better.

 

P.S.: I wonder how much $$$ it would take to lure Ronn Moss back? This new guy just isn't cutting it. Granted, he's a much better actor, but his disheveled unkempt appearance is a complete turn-off. It is so distracting, I can barely focus on what the character is doing or saying.

[thewhiteowl]

 

Switching gears, I think that the plot to try to reunite Brooke and Deacon is ludicrous. That came out of left field completely.

 

 Or "right field" as Deacon said, which made me chuckle.

 

[meow]

I just wanted to agree with this part of Meow's post. To be honest, he can really creep me out at times.

Thank you and ICAM. He was way too possessive abd cocky and he got what he deserved because of it. He lost Hope. :). I LMAO when she dumped him because he always boasted that it would never happen. Haha Weanie, u lost!!

[meow]

I'm not sure if being done out of love or not is the issue with the video. The issue is that it was made at all. It was yet another example of Liam's inability to say no to Steffy. No doubt it was a mistake, and Liam felt bad about it, but only after Hope saw it, till then, he hadn't given the wrongness of it a second thought. And just how many mistakes is Hope supposed to grant Liam in this lifetime? Liam didn't see the video as wrong, or thoughtless, or inappropriate; a gift honoring their time together for his ex-wife? Hope however, has committed an unforgivable act of betrayal in accepting the HFTF diamond?

We will just have to disagree on this.

And that is exactly what made them a much more compelling couple. Wyatt brought out Hope's sexuality in a way Liam never has. Instead of watching someone who looked like they were going through the motions, Hope actually seemed present when she was with Wyatt.

I think that was Brooke's Bedroom.

Oh, I must totally disagree. At least Wyatt has an excuse to be around Hope; he works with her. Liam on the other hand? When was the last time he crossed the threshold of SP's? If one didn't know better they would think he is employed at FC's.

Which leads me to:

Liam was the one who pressed for dual romances and equal dating time; clearly disrespecting Hope and Wyatt's relationship. Even so, Wyatt agreed. I never really saw Wyatt too concerned about Hope and Liam's time together; he was confident in what he had going with Hope, and was willing to let her make her own decision. No demands. No tantrums. No ultimatums. It is also important to remember that Hope would still be dating Wyatt had it not been for Quinn's actions. Is it really a win when you must stamp your feet, and pitch a hissy fit to get your way?

.

I don't think at all that they'd still be dating. Besides Hope has loved Liam for yrs and wanted to marry him. She wouldn't even accept Weanie's proposal when he asked so that's proof they wouldn't be together. She'd never live with him either and IMO that speaks volumes!! Hope also said that Weanie was fun and adventure but Liam was marriage and children. :) Hope had absolutely nothing to do with Brooke's bedroom line, not one thing. That was all about Brooke. Weanie made a nasty cardboard cutout of Hope and presented it at a meeting with everyone there and wanted her to model the nastiest underwear, and plaster her all over billboards, it was so disgusting and it demoralised her!! No man who ever loved a woman would ever ask her to model something so nasty, it's just wrong. Liam would have never done that and he said so!!

Liam was never, ever possessive of Hope but Weanie always had to be around her and touching her, it was disgusting. He could never let her out of his sight for more than a couple minutes. If she wasn't there he'd go looking for her. IMO everything about him is disgusting, arrogant, and cocky. Weanie was the one who requested doing everything will Hope that Liam had done including sex, again he was disgusting and cocky!!

The video for Steffy had absolutely nothing to do with love and Liam said so. Plus Hope has forgiven him for everything and that's what matters!! He had every right to demand that she give the diamond back because no woman should ever accept such a thing from another man, especially someone she slept with, not to mention his manipulative, scheming brother!! It was a very disrespectful to do and I just don't get her doing it. I hope spoilers r right and she gives it back. They must be or Lope wouldn't be getting married at all.

[meow]

I thought he gave Steffy the ring after Hope saw him kissing Steffy and broke things off? He thought she left him at the altar in Italy, right? Am I totally scrambling up my history of the numerous mishaps they've had?

Also, Liam runs too. He thought she stood him up at the altar in Italy and, instead of going to find her and see if something was wrong, he went right to Steffy. This is even after they'd already lost time together due to other various misunderstandings. He still lashes out and rebounds to Steffy. He's no saint in all this. Not even close.

And I think that things Liam has done - immediately proposing to Steffy with Hope's ring and marrying her within days, going right to Steffy when he thought Hope stood him up in Italy, and spending the night before their wedding out on the town with Steffy, were things that Liam did knowing damn well they would hurt Hope.

Neither of these two is my favorite character, but given the choice between the two, I prefer Hope by far. And it's a shame, because I love SC, but Liam is a waffling spiteful hypocritical douchebag.

Liam is definitely not innocent and I never said he was but he never set our to hurt her on purpose. He had absolutely no idea that she was trapped in the gondola at the Ajax wedding compliments of Steffy and Bill's scheming and manipulating!! He thought she left him at the altar and gone home like she'd done before, hence he gave Steffy the master manipulator her ring. It wasn't a good idea but he had absolutely no knowledge of the scheming those two assholes had done. He was completely clueless!!

Liam isn't that waffling man anymore but now Hope is doing it with him and Weanie. Then there's the diamond she should have never accepted. She's so not innocent, not by a long shot!!

[meow]

I thought he gave Steffy the ring after Hope saw him kissing Steffy and broke things off? He thought she left him at the altar in Italy, right? Am I totally scrambling up my history of the numerous mishaps they've had?

Also, Liam runs too. He thought she stood him up at the altar in Italy and, instead of going to find her and see if something was wrong, he went right to Steffy. This is even after they'd already lost time together due to other various misunderstandings. He still lashes out and rebounds to Steffy. He's no saint in all this. Not even close.

And I think that things Liam has done - immediately proposing to Steffy with Hope's ring and marrying her within days, going right to Steffy when he thought Hope stood him up in Italy, and spending the night before their wedding out on the town with Steffy, were things that Liam did knowing damn well they would hurt Hope.

Neither of these two is my favorite character, but given the choice between the two, I prefer Hope by far. And it's a shame, because I love SC, but Liam is a waffling spiteful hypocritical douchebag.

I never said he was a saint as he made many mistakes but he's not that man anymore. Hope is now the one waffling and she's so not innocent in any of this either, the latest taking that expensive diamond from a man she used to sleep with, Liam's own brother. Sleeping with brothers was very, very wrong and so was taking that diamond!!

Liam never stood her up at the altar like she's done to him many tines. He only put that ring on that stupid Steffy's finger because he had absolutely no idea that Hope was trapped in the gondola thx to Bill and Steffy's scheming. He thought she'd left him and gone home. That was all on Steffy and Bill, the two master manipulating assholes!!

Liam again had absolutely no idea that Deacon had written that note for him to find in Italy. The o l reason Lope haven't been married r because of outside interference, that's all!! The ring wasn't Italy, it was the Ajax mountain wedding gondola trap.

Edited August 2, 2014 by meow

[Anna Yolei]

I thought he gave Steffy the ring after Hope saw him kissing Steffy and broke things off? He thought she left him at the altar in Italy, right? Am I totally scrambling up my history of the numerous mishaps they've had?

Shit, we need a damn scorecard to keep track. By now, they've had as many failed wedding as Nick has had near misses with fatherhood:

Attempt #1: split up cause Hope didn't want to jump into bed before marriage and Steffy was more than happy to flaunt her golden cooter for him

#2: Canceled because idiot Liam lacked the pair to tell Hope that he didn't annul his marriage to Steffy

#3: Bill and Deacon ran interferance but they eventually had a ceremony IIRC that was later invalidated, leading to

#4 Him getting trashed with Steffy the night before, and Rick somehow was involved with that to hold onto Caroline for reasons I no longer remember or care about, except for hearing Her Highness blame him for her lack of trust in Liam in every scene they shared for at least four months.

#5 Brooke attempting to one-up Taylor....um, I mean support Hope (yeah, that's it :rolls eyes: ) sets up a wedding for them that gets crashed by Steffy's pregnancy reveal.

Holy shit. I'd think anyone with any belief in a higher being would have taken the hint after the second attempt.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Anna Yolei

[luvlee2003]

#6 Quinn brings Steffy to see Liam as he's getting dressed for the wedding to tell him she can have kids afterall. Hope sees this and runs.

Good lord this couple is a nightmare. Why do they keep trying??

[RuntheTable]

I don't think at all that they'd still be dating.

 

 

I guess we will never know, but I didn't see Hope chomping at the bit to end the dual dating arrangement, and Quinn's actions were the deciding factor for Hope, not Wyatt's.

 

Hope had absolutely nothing to do with Brooke's bedroom line, not one thing. That was all about Brooke. Weanie made a nasty cardboard cutout of Hope and presented it at a meeting with everyone there and wanted her to model the nastiest underwear, and plaster her all over billboards, it was so disgusting and it demoralised her!!

 

 

I stand corrected; I was confusing Oliver's pitch to have Ally model B's B. In all honesty, I had completely forgotten about the HFTF lingerie line. I didn't find it all that shocking or disgusting, as much as silly and ill-timed. They were discussing launching Brooke's Bedroom; I couldn't see the need for more lingerie, and Hope's demographic is supposed to be the younger set, so I thought a swimwear line would have made more sense.

[meow]

Shit, we need a damn scorecard to keep track. By now, they've had as many failed wedding as Nick has had near misses with fatherhood:

Attempt #1: split up cause Hope didn't want to jump into bed before marriage and Steffy was more than happy to flaunt her golden cooter for him

#2: Canceled because idiot Liam lacked the pair to tell Hope that he didn't annul his marriage to Steffy

#3: Bill and Deacon ran interferance but they eventually had a ceremony IIRC that was later invalidated, leading to

#4 Him getting trashed with Steffy the night before, and Rick somehow was involved with that to hold onto Caroline for reasons I no longer remember or care about, except for hearing Her Highness blame him for her lack of trust in Liam in every scene they shared for at least four months.

#5 Brooke attempting to one-up Taylor....um, I mean support Hope (yeah, that's it :rolls eyes: ) sets up a wedding for them that gets crashed by Steffy's pregnancy reveal.

Holy shit. I'd think anyone with any belief in a higher being would have taken the hint after the second attempt.

Brooke was not attempting to one up Taylor, it was the other way around. Steffy said she was going to give Liam time to make up his mind but she couldn't because she knew he would choose Hope like he always did so she blabbed the baby secret when she should have told him the minute she found out!! She was just waiting for the right time to pounce and that was it. Poor Hope always got blind sided by that mean, nasty, manipulative bitch because Steffy was so insecure when it came to Liam. She had every right to be because she knew he was in love with Hope and wanted to marry her and that she'd never get Liam unless she trapped him like she always had to!! :)

If memory serves me the first one was interrupted by the gondola trap planned by stupid Steffy and executed by Bill. In fact all of them were messed up by stupid Steffy with some kind of trap or another!! Liam was wrong to go out with her that night but idiot Steffy should have never asked in the first place. Everything started with, yep u guessed it, Steffy the ugly master manipulator. Let's not forget her part in it!!

They must have something in mind for Lope who r BnB's star crossed lovers or they wouldn't keep trying. That's probably why they do, because of the star crossed lovers thing.

Edited August 3, 2014 by meow

[meow]

I guess we will never know, but I didn't see Hope chomping at the bit to end the dual dating arrangement, and Quinn's actions were the deciding factor for Hope, not Wyatt's.

I stand corrected; I was confusing Oliver's pitch to have Ally model B's B. In all honesty, I had completely forgotten about the HFTF lingerie line. I didn't find it all that shocking or disgusting, as much as silly and ill-timed. They were discussing launching Brooke's Bedroom; I couldn't see the need for more lingerie, and Hope's demographic is supposed to be the younger set, so I thought a swimwear line would have made more sense.

We know they wouldn't be together because Hope refused to marry or live with him and that wasn't changing so Weanie the manipulator, just like his crazy mama, loses, LMFAO!! Again Hope said that Weanie was fun and adventure and Liam was marriage and children. If that's not proof, IDK what is!! Weanie and Shleppy, my new nickname for Steffy because I hate her for her damn part in Lope's problems, should be together because they're both master manipulators and two peas in a pod!!

Brooke's bedroom line was some time before that. It had absolutely nothing to do with Weanie the wus's trashy underwear. IMO that trashy underwear was nowhere close to being able to be called lingerie, it was disgusting and inappropriate for somebody like Hope which is why she refused to do it and twice because he was stupid ass enough to try again. I fail to understand giving Weanie such a free pass because of the piece of shit that he is. I love Liam but I don't give him one because I know he's done wrong and I'll admit that about my favs!!

Edited August 3, 2014 by meow

[Anna Yolei]

Brooke was not attempting to one up Taylor, it was the other way around. 

I'll amend that to say they both are guilty of using their daughters to fight their battles. One example of this was the convo Taylor has with Steffy after the Italian wedding where she points out that this was the same shit she, Taylor, had put up with from Old Waffle for years....what any sane mother would point out...only to flip the script shortly afterwhen Lope experienced yet another hiccup...or how Taylor was chomping at the bit to tell Liam about the baby, when she lied about Thomas' s paternity for the EXACT reasons Steffy wanted to keep quiet for. Brooke too only seems to voice concerns until Syeffy goes after Waffle, then goes to do stuff like set up the quicky wedding without either party's involvement.

Hell, even Katie the shrew has used Hope because she was still snarting over her throwing herself on $ Bill, which was why HFTF was created to start with.

I think we can both agree that this show needs more boundaries between parent and children's love lives. The ToD 2.0 is just a continuation of a theme that's been with the show for at least as long as I've been watching, when the whole family listens and wails on as Deacon deflowers Bridget.

Luvlee2003, thanks for adding that to the list. I knew I'd forgotten one. Anyone want bets on the over/under on when one of these will actually stick?