S31.E07: Play To Win

[marys1000]

Getting caught up in Ciera's drama was Kass's mistake.  I don't love Kass but I think she's a more interesting player than Ciera.  I don't know why people voted Ciera back on.  I would have much rather had her go or even Spencer and I think they are boring. 

 

Joe Joe Joe!  You need to turn the shield thing back on Jeremy ASAP!  Jeremy is clearly sandbagging challenges and pretty much everything else.  Doing some work around camp but not too much.  Strategizing but not too much. 

And of course if the current castmates can't see what Jeremy is doing and do all their focusing on Joe - well they deserve to be sent home. 

 

Anyone else notice the huge looking bags under K Wentworth's eyes?  I wonder if she's not feeling well. 

[fishcakes]

That was a whole lot of WTF. I think what Kass was doing was trying to take a page from Tony's book when he maneuvered LJ into saying that Woo should be voted off and then used that to justify voting LJ off on the grounds of disloyalty. Kass knew Tasha would lie to her and say she was no longer with Bayon and then Kass could use that against her. But as everyone has already said, her mistake was in announcing it to the group instead of using it to plant seeds of doubt. Tony only told who he needed to tell about LJ before the vote and didn't tell everyone until after the vote when LJ was gone and couldn't explain himself.

 

I did enjoy seeing Tasha pee herself over it though. She could have calmly admitted she said it but was lying because she was talking to Kass, but instead she issued a panicked, angry denial. If her alliance doubts her at all now, it will be because of her reaction to what Kass said, so even though Kass blew herself up, I think she did some damage to Tasha, which makes me happy. As for her "bye bye Bayon? I don't talk like that," this is the same woman who more than once disparaged Kass on Twitter by calling her "little Tink Tink," so whether or not she actually said the words "bye bye Bayon," it does sound like something she would say.

 

I mostly like Ciera and think she doesn't get enough credit, but this was not a good week for her, what with her being an idiot and all.

 

And I have to say that the way it's playing out is again justifying Kimmi's move against Monica. There is no way this group of women was ever going to form an alliance. Saving Wiglesworth in particular would have been pointless since her strategy seems to be not ruffling the feathers of whoever she thinks is the alpha male. And the fact that she's identified the purported alpha as first Terry and then Savage tells me she doesn't know what's going on.

 

Savage could not possibly be more pathetic. His "fuck these pieces of shit" for having the temerity not to hand him the million was bad enough, but that sad, sad TH about how he wanted to win immunity to show he could still compete with the younger men was just plain embarrassing. He and I are the same age, but there is nothing in me that feels like I need to prove myself against women who are 25 or 30 years younger than me. There are advantages and disadvantages to being any age and being at peace with that is called being an adult. The fact that he thinks balancing a ball on a stick while standing on a plank says anything about being a man tells me he's not much of one.

 

Enjoyable episode, but needed more baby monkeys.

[Jextella]

The merge signals a brand-new game for the newly-christened Orkun tribe, but a couple of Survivors are having trouble shaking off old slights.

http://previously.tv/survivor/survivor-engages-in-some-pest-control/"> Read the story

Jeremy and Spencer couldn't be any cuter if they tried with their napkins tucked into their shirt collars.

[Guest]

I don't know what evidence Probst used to make that claim. 

The only thing I saw that might've been part of it were Stephen's 'evolution of the game' comment (which I admittedly now don't recall what exactly he said) and then Spencer saying he was with that side for that vote but tomorrow might be with someone else.

[NutMeg]

I just loved how so many people were really playing hard - even if it backfired for one/some of them.

 

This merge was early by Survivor standards, looks like it's going to be a lot of fun.

 

I think this is the first time TC vote count surprised me - a lot. And as luck had it, my recording cut off before Kass's final words, so I missed all the voting reveal fun.

 

Kass could have been an interesting player if she hadn't been so attached to her self-chosen moniker - I do, really do, hate people who talk of themselves in the 3rd person, especially when they bring a persona that is clearly detrimental to their game. Why, Kass, why? I had higher hopes on your second chance! Couldn't you get rid of that ridiculous moniker that only you and TPTB like?

 

Cierra's speech at tribal was not dumb, but too obviously self-serving. At this stage, the game is very much afoot, and no one thinks they are low on the totem pole. This appeal would have worked better in one-on-one conversations after assessing the dynamics of the tribe. Clearly, it didn't come from desperation, as she cast a throwaway vote. So yeah, ok speach, but wrong forum and wrong timing.

 

Spencer and Joe - Spencer must have issues if he thinks any hot dude is a jock. In what universe, from a fan's standpoint, does Joe understand things better if they are put in football terms? The guy is into YOGA (very helpful in challenges, cf. Parvati, Aras, Vytas... Joe!) and jewellery design, how far from a jock is that? Spencer wears blinders (as does Stephen). But his condescendance there brought back all I dislike about him. Be grateful, laddy! You have a very nice shield willing to work with you, don't patronize, enjoy the ride! Sheesh :-(

 

I know it might be bad long term, but I was happy Joe won immunity, because: 1) he had so many confessionals, I was starting to get scared; 2) while I mostly value social and strategic plays, I do enjoy physical prowess when it's graceful and unusual (his way of standing up rather than down WAS unusual, and his way of moving IS always full of g grace). He even looked good with the immunity necklace - and no, Kimmi, he didn't look like a gladiator, but more like a Renaissance man, when men were all wearing tons of jewellery. And I do agree that the way his facial hair grow gived him very much the look of a musketeer.

 

Talking about Kimmi, it was fun that she brought out how the last vote went into the open. Not a clever strategy, but it was fun to see people squirm a bit with having to reveal things that they would have liked to keep hidden.

 

Yeah, finally, Abi is on the wrong side of numbers! She's going to become irrelevant soon, she might be sulking for a while in her corner, because theere are now bigger fishes than her to fry. But how I would love it for her to become irrelevant... I'm impressed, though, with how she AGAIN voted against the person she was allied with on the previous vote. Lady is a jinx, no one should ever count on her, she's only ever good for that one vote.

 

Yes, Kelley played it well. Yes, Kelly was still invisible (well, she had a close-up or too, are they going for the silent movie star vibe with her?). Yes, Savage has very white and too "perfect" teeth. (I call him Savage because that's how I got to know him on Pearl Islands, the season I started watching, didn't even realize back then it was his last name - well, I didn't discover these forums/fora? until I missed the first episode of the Ulong season and started looking for backgroung info, and then became obsessed - and thought that was such a great name in a season themed on Pirates. So even if you'll hate me for this, he'll always be Savage for me, at least now you know why:-) ).  

 

I'd love it if alliances remain fluid for the rest of the game.    

[wonald]

 

 

I did enjoy seeing Tasha pee herself over it though. She could have calmly admitted she said it but was lying because she was talking to Kass, but instead she issued a panicked, angry denial. If her alliance doubts her at all now, it will be because of her reaction to what Kass said, so even though Kass blew herself up, I think she did some damage to Tasha, which makes me happy. As for her "bye bye Bayon? I don't talk like that," this is the same woman who more than once disparaged Kass on Twitter by calling her "little Tink Tink," so whether or not she actually said the words "bye bye Bayon," it does sound like something she would say.

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely. She is very rhyme-y and alliterative. Let's not forget "Teamwork makes the dream work!" Glad to see that this episode is exposing how fake she is.

Edited November 5, 2015 by wonald

[Oscirus]

Jeremy is clearly sandbagging challenges

 

Jeremy finished third in last night's challenge ( even better then the previous winner). If he's sandbagging a challenge he's pretty bad at it.

 

It's funny how a vote from two weeks ago changes the whole complexion of this vote. Monica stays and the "mythical" female alliance probably happens and Tasha goes home.

 

Ciera's speech only bothered me because it came off as entitled. Just because a vote at the 13 is easy doesn't mean it's wrong. If you try to make big moves at every single TC, you're going to get booted, quickly.

[Special K]

Jeremy finished third in last night's challenge ( even better then the previous winner). If he's sandbagging a challenge he's pretty bad at it.

 

 

I disagree. He's presenting as though he's really trying -- and is clearly a strong, athletic man -- but there are others stronger than he is.  He is shielding himself perfectly, IMO. If he was playing full-possum, everyone would know it.

[Zuleikha]

Monica stays and the "mythical" female alliance probably happens and Tasha goes home.

Huh? How would Monica staying over Wigles result in a female alliance that takes out Tasha? Maybe it would have resulted in a power swap with Monica going to Ta Keo 5 and that alliance becoming more dominant, but equally likely, it would have resulted in no change because Monica's choice for #1 ally wanted to vote with Jeremy and Monica just went with numbers. No one even tried to put together a female alliance (and if anyone did, why would the target Tasha over Savage or another bro?)

[Ms Blue Jay]

Jeremy finished third in last night's challenge ( even better then the previous winner). If he's sandbagging a challenge he's pretty bad at it.

 

I don't think so.  If he dropped out early, that would have been too obvious.  Imagine if he pretended to be worse at something than Fishbach?  That would be utterly insane.

 

He dropped out to be 3rd, which is worse than gangly Spencer.  I think he did a great job of 'sandbagging' it.  Yes, I noticed he was dropping out because I'm watching on a 42 inch screen in HD. I don't think the other players  could see all the machinations turning.

 

Special K, I was posting exactly when you did.  Sorry for the echo.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Bryce Lynch]

Absolutely. She is very rhyme-y and alliterative. Let's not forget "Teamwork makes the dream work!" Glad to see that this episode is exposing how fake she is.

But Tasha never said "bye bye bayon", Kass said it.

She did initially try to mislead Kass into thinking Bayon was not strong, but so what? Are you supposed to share inside information with your enemies?

Later Tasha told kASS point blank that she had lied to her because she didn't trust her. kASS reacted by essentially saying "How dare Tasha mess with MY game!"

Kass then tried to deceive Tasha's alliance into believing that she had betrayed them, when she knew she had not. That is what I call being "fake", but part of Survivor is being fake. Kass failed miserably in her attempt to turn the tribe against Tasha and was voted out.

It would have been by a 9 to 4 or 10 to 3 margin, if they hadn't taken the precaution of vote splitting, so I think that gives us a pretty good idea of what the tribe thought of kASS.

[blackwing]

Kass has nobody to blame but herself.  She made herself the target when she tried to stir the pot and pick a fight with Tasha.  I don't think her position was that bad off... all she had to do was be calm and try to sway Spencer over and hope that he would bring someone else.  Instead, she makes a big scene, leading to Ciera's big scene.  That led to Keith and Kelley Wentworth abandoning them, because who wants to be aligned with the two crazies who are sowing dissension.

 

Kass also thought way too much of herself and her "unleash the Khaos Kass" persona bits.  It wasn't funny and it was getting old by the fourth time we heard a reference to "Khaos Kass".

 

I hope Ciera goes next.  It will be interesting to see what Abi does.  She stabbed Andrew in the back when she voted out Woo, and aligned herself with two losers.  She will have some scrambling to do.

 

And Golden Boy Joe can leave anytime.  I don't understand why his backwards stance on that beam was allowed.  The whole point of making the beam narrower as they stepped down was to make it harder for them to maintain their balance.  But he turned around and had his feet separated, which gave him better balance.  I'm sure if it had been prohibited that TPTB would have said something, but I am amazed they allowed it.

[Bryce Lynch]

Kass has nobody to blame but herself. She made herself the target when she tried to stir the pot and pick a fight with Tasha. I don't think her position was that bad off... all she had to do was be calm and try to sway Spencer over and hope that he would bring someone else. Instead, she makes a big scene, leading to Ciera's big scene. That led to Keith and Kelley Wentworth abandoning them, because who wants to be aligned with the two crazies who are sowing dissension.

Kass also thought way too much of herself and her "unleash the Khaos Kass" persona bits. It wasn't funny and it was getting old by the fourth time we heard a reference to "Khaos Kass".

I hope Ciera goes next. It will be interesting to see what Abi does. She stabbed Andrew in the back when she voted out Woo, and aligned herself with two losers. She will have some scrambling to do.

And Golden Boy Joe can leave anytime. I don't understand why his backwards stance on that beam was allowed. The whole point of making the beam narrower as they stepped down was to make it harder for them to maintain their balance. But he turned around and had his feet separated, which gave him better balance. I'm sure if it had been prohibited that TPTB would have said something, but I am amazed they allowed it.

Agree on kASS and Ciera.

Disagree on Joe. Clearly his reverse stance was legal or he would have been told not to use it or disqualified. I thought it was very clever of him to think outside the box and find what might be a better way to do the challenge.

[Nashville]

So what does everybody think of Jeff's remarks that the game has changed into "voting blocks" each week instead of alliances?

 

I think it was a pretty interesting turn of events if this has happened.

 

I need to see more of this in order to decide if I like it or not.

I, for one, was more than a little confused when everybody reacted like this was some mind-boggling profound insight into the game. Alliances are often little more than semi-solid cores representing a particular voting strategy, around which unaffiliated others and/or "flippers" would coalesce into voting blocs each TC. How does Jeff's statement represent a radical difference from what has been a strong undercurrent of Survivor strategy for virtually every season following the first? Or has Probst simply been sitting on his hands for God only knows how many seasons waiting for a Spence with sufficient skills of articulation to bring up the subject at TC?

  

Why are they not targeting the men?

Ummm.. because several women were competing to volunteer for the opportunity to blow up their own games, maybe? ;>

[Oscirus]

Huh? How would Monica staying over Wigles result in a female alliance that takes out Tasha? Maybe it would have resulted in a power swap with Monica going to Ta Keo 5 and that alliance becoming more dominant, but equally likely, it would have resulted in no change because Monica's choice for #1 ally wanted to vote with Jeremy and Monica just went with numbers. No one even tried to put together a female alliance (and if anyone did, why would the target Tasha over Savage or another bro?)

 

Kass, Ciera, Abi, Kelley, Monica with Joe and Spencer as disposable votes.

 Monica could've met up with them at the merge, Kass only needed one more vote for her initial seven and Monica wanted to target the Alphas, match made in heaven. If she meets them at the previous swap it's even easier.

 

 

 

[ShadowSixx]

Tasha won't beat out last season's Rodney, who butchered and misspelled just about every name he wrote down, even obvious easy names. Shirin was "Shareen", Sierra was "Ciara", and Hali was "Halt". I can't forgive the Halt name spelling, when did I become T?

 

I've seen people misspell names before on Survivor, but you really can't ask a fellow contestant, "How do you spell your name?", that will send immediate red flags.

 

If my name was misspelled I would be like, "Probst...ummm that vote doesn't count, that's not my name, my name is ________, I don't know who that is."

Edited November 5, 2015 by ShadowSixx

[Ms Blue Jay]

Disagree on Joe. Clearly his reverse stance was legal or he would have been told not to use it or disqualified. I thought it was very clever of him to think outside the box and find what might be a better way to do the challenge.

 

Reminds me of when Woo used his toe shoes to perform all of the challenges in Cagayan.  Some of the viewers thought it was unfair too.  I say, whatever is allowed is smart!  http://www.mackite.com/art/vibrams1_Bikila_Castle_Rock_LS-mens.jpg

[Special K]

Tasha won't beat out last season's Rodney, who butchered and misspelled just about every name he wrote down, even obvious easy names. Shirin was "Shareen", Sierra was "Ciara", and Hali was "Halt". I can't forgive the Halt name spelling, when did I become T?

 

Who was that old guy who famously butchered the spelling of everybody's names?  Someone remind me because I remember laughing and laughing during his season.  It wasn't the "The game's afoot," "She must hate her plastic surgeon" plastic surgeon was it?

[Zuleikha]

Kass, Ciera, Abi, Kelley, Monica with Joe and Spencer as disposable votes.

Monica could've met up with them at the merge, Kass only needed one more vote for her initial seven and Monica wanted to target the Alphas, match made in heaven. If she meets them at the previous swap it's even easier.

Monica and Kass didn't like each other when they were on Bayon, and Monica did want to work with Kimmi (who's not part of that group), so who knows whether that would have happened or not.

 

That also wouldn't be a woman's alliance. That's the Ta Keo 5 (not sure why you dropped out Keith since he was part of the initial Kass/Ciera/Kelley plan and presumably would still be part of it had Kass/Ciera not instigated the fight with Tasha) plus Abi/Spencer brought along from the tribe swap. Monica would be the most disposable in that group since she would have no connections with anyone, but Spencer/Kelley/Abi worked together on Ta Keo and Abi/Spencer/Kass/Ciera worked together for the Woo boot. Although no one's bonds--except maybe the Ta Keo 5--would be particularly strong.

[Ms Blue Jay]

CBS's picks for worst misspellings.

 

http://www.cbs.com/shows/survivor/photos/1001410/17-worst-survivor-vote-misspellings/82096/shareen-/

[KimberStormer]

And I have to say that the way it's playing out is again justifying Kimmi's move against Monica. There is no way this group of women was ever going to form an alliance. Saving Wiglesworth in particular would have been pointless since her strategy seems to be not ruffling the feathers of whoever she thinks is the alpha male. And the fact that she's identified the purported alpha as first Terry and then Savage tells me she doesn't know what's going on.

 

Hang on, so what?  I'll say it again, not voting out Monica does not obligate Kimmi to join a convent and foreswear all contact with men.  If she hadn't made that stupid move, there would be no Kelly to worry about at all, because it was Kelly who was going home.  (And there is literally no evidence whatsoever about what Kelly thinks or wants to do, because the producers are getting revenge on her for being boring by making her invisible.)  Anyway, you know how you get someone to know what's going on?  You tell them.  Problem solved.

 

Kimmi is currently a non-factor aligned with men who will all beat her at the final and probably beat her at any immunity challenge.  Monica was a dependable vote.  There's still no upside to her move, and there never could be.

[Bryce Lynch]

Tasha won't beat out last season's Rodney, who butchered and misspelled just about every name he wrote down, even obvious easy names. Shirin was "Shareen", Sierra was "Ciara", and Hali was "Halt". I can't forgive the Halt name spelling, when did I become T?

Knowing Rodney he probably made sure to cross his i's and dot his t's. :) Edited November 5, 2015 by Bryce Lynch

[ProfCrash]

The only thing I saw that might've been part of it were Stephen's 'evolution of the game' comment (which I admittedly now don't recall what exactly he said) and then Spencer saying he was with that side for that vote but tomorrow might be with someone else.

I think it was a shout out to RHAP. Rob C does the Evolution of Survivor series.

[Special K]

CBS's picks for worst misspellings.

 

http://www.cbs.com/shows/survivor/photos/1001410/17-worst-survivor-vote-misspellings/82096/shareen-/

Thanks for the walk down memory lane, Ms. Blue!  It was Ralph I was thinking of.  Seriously "Krasta" still cracks me up.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Special K

[ToastnBacon]

Fishbach's statement about "three small women" being on the chopping block probably didn't go unnoticed at tribal.

I hope it stuck in the minds of the alpha males he so fears, and gets him voted out.

His comment about an evolution of strategy sounds more like a cover story for not being able to make things click.

Knowing Rodney he probably made sure to cross his i's and dot his t's. :)

I've always wanted someone to ask a tribe member how their name is spelled on the afternoon of a TC.

[Bryce Lynch]

Fishbach's statement about "three small women" being on the chopping block probably didn't go unnoticed at tribal.

I hope it stuck in the minds of the alpha males he so fears, and gets him voted out.

His comment about an evolution of strategy sounds more like a cover story for not being able to make things click.

All the evolution of strategy talk seems Ike nonsense to me. If alliances have been more fluid this season, maybe it is because of all the tribe shakeups and a very early merge with 13 players remaining.

[KimberStormer]

It's funny, I thought his comment was sort of the opposite: to assure the alpha males that he wasn't targeting them.  "I know it's normal to go after the big guys at the merge, but it's 'small women' instead!  I'm certainly not flipping on my brolliance!"

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't see how Fishbach is part of any Brolliance.  Who is even left in the cast that can be considered a Bro?  I guess Joe and his closest ally Jeremy.  He's aligned to one Bro I guess.

 

It's funny, people are tweeting things to Jeremy like, Why do you only want to work with alpha males?  And/or Why did you want to work with Alpha Males to take out Queen Kass?

 

His responses:

- Tasha and Wiglesworth?

- Stephen and Kimmie?

- I didn't even write Kass's name down.

 

Spencer and Joe - Spencer must have issues if he thinks any hot dude is a jock.

 

This was exactly my thought process as I saw the episode.  I actually typed out:  Does Joe even play football or is he just hot?  I think Spencer has an anti-thing for pretty guys like Joe and Woo.  The Cagayan audience can all remember how passionately Spencer hated Woo for making it to final because of how dumb he is or whatever.   I guess Spencer respects Joe a lot more because I don't remember Spencer aligning with Woo for even 1 second through 2 seasons.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Gentian root]

I can't blame anyone for spelling a name wrong even if they have seen it before.

I would WANT people to spell my name wrong.  Wrong enough that it looks like a vote for someone else.

[TsuKata]

Based on what we saw in the episode, it was not Kass who "blew it up at camp."  It was Tasha.  The edit makes it a little confusing, because it cuts rapidly, but Tasha is starting a conversation where she's telling her alliance-mates, "So I just had this conversation with Kass..."  Then, Kass interrupts to say what Tasha actually said and was (ostensibly) trying to re-frame.  It's not like Kass ran back to camp and was like "Tasha is a liar and said this!"  My read of what we see in the ep is Tasha was about to tell everyone else that Kass is going to try to lie to them and Kass cut it off to say it wasn't a lie, which led to the confrontation in front of everyone.

 

I don't trust the edit completely, though.  The convo on the beach with Kass and Tasha is cut oddly and Tasha is about to storm off before Kass draws the line in the sand.  My suspicion is that in the second conversation, Kass was presenting that she could tell everyone at camp what Tasha said, and Tasha will look bad, but she'd rather work with her or whatever, and Tasha refused hardcore.  Kass got pissed, because from her side, she's trying to work with Tasha and Tasha's blowing her off, and made the line comment. Tasha storms off, and then realizes that Kass can probably start going around and whispering in ears about Tasha being disloyal, so she starts the thread that Kass is going to try to lie about the conversation, which Kass interrupts and then we're back into what we saw.

 

Either way, I don't think Tasha, Kass, or Ciera were playing a good game in this ep. 

 

I'm not 100% a fan of Kass or anything, but I dreaded her getting voted off specifically because of the way that she gets talked about. Inevitably, she gets talked about as being arrogant, pushy, ugly, etc...which are all phrases that get thrown at women who step out of their place.  Which she does and did.  She's not some glowing example of awesomeness, but the things she says and does wouldn't get near as much hate if she were male.  There are many, many Survivor men who are more arrogant, more pushy, and they don't get the same vitriol.  Compare how Savage is discussed to how Kass is discussed, for example.  Or how Jeremy gets discussed.  Consider why Kass' plays are called emotional, whereas Savage's are called loyalty or playing from the heart. Ugh.  It just makes me dislike Survivor fans and commentary when I see it happening again.  Do I think they're hating on her because she's a woman? Or do I think she makes great plays and decisions all the time? No, but I think the hate she gets as a result is different and more intense because she's a woman, and that is disappointing.

 

Did anyone else notice Tasha reacting when Jeff said about Kass being on the jury?  I wonder if they didn't think the person they voted off this week would make jury (much as many of us didn't), and Tasha realized she just utterly pissed off the first jury member.  If not, the reaction was weird, so maybe there was more said that we didn't get to see.

[Mreid]

The way I see it if someone is causing chaos at camp they are even more dangerous than a physical player is, Kass had to go

[Bryce Lynch]

Based on what we saw in the episode, it was not Kass who "blew it up at camp." It was Tasha. The edit makes it a little confusing, because it cuts rapidly, but Tasha is starting a conversation where she's telling her alliance-mates, "So I just had this conversation with Kass..." Then, Kass interrupts to say what Tasha actually said and was (ostensibly) trying to re-frame. It's not like Kass ran back to camp and was like "Tasha is a liar and said this!" My read of what we see in the ep is Tasha was about to tell everyone else that Kass is going to try to lie to them and Kass cut it off to say it wasn't a lie, which led to the confrontation in front of everyone.

I don't trust the edit completely, though. The convo on the beach with Kass and Tasha is cut oddly and Tasha is about to storm off before Kass draws the line in the sand. My suspicion is that in the second conversation, Kass was presenting that she could tell everyone at camp what Tasha said, and Tasha will look bad, but she'd rather work with her or whatever, and Tasha refused hardcore. Kass got pissed, because from her side, she's trying to work with Tasha and Tasha's blowing her off, and made the line comment. Tasha storms off, and then realizes that Kass can probably start going around and whispering in ears about Tasha being disloyal, so she starts the thread that Kass is going to try to lie about the conversation, which Kass interrupts and then we're back into what we saw.

Either way, I don't think Tasha, Kass, or Ciera were playing a good game in this ep.

I'm not 100% a fan of Kass or anything, but I dreaded her getting voted off specifically because of the way that she gets talked about. Inevitably, she gets talked about as being arrogant, pushy, ugly, etc...which are all phrases that get thrown at women who step out of their place. Which she does and did. She's not some glowing example of awesomeness, but the things she says and does wouldn't get near as much hate if she were male. There are many, many Survivor men who are more arrogant, more pushy, and they don't get the same vitriol. Compare how Savage is discussed to how Kass is discussed, for example. Or how Jeremy gets discussed. Consider why Kass' plays are called emotional, whereas Savage's are called loyalty or playing from the heart. Ugh. It just makes me dislike Survivor fans and commentary when I see it happening again. Do I think they're hating on her because she's a woman? Or do I think she makes great plays and decisions all the time? No, but I think the hate she gets as a result is different and more intense because she's a woman, and that is disappointing.

Did anyone else notice Tasha reacting when Jeff said about Kass being on the jury? I wonder if they didn't think the person they voted off this week would make jury (much as many of us didn't), and Tasha realized she just utterly pissed off the first jury member. If not, the reaction was weird, so maybe there was more said that we didn't get to see.

I disagree that Kass is disliked because she is a woman. She is obnoxious, arrogant, useless in challenges and terrible at the game. I don't think any men with that combination of traits have ever been popular.

Strong, smart, shrewd women tend to be popular.

I didn't notice Tasha's reaction to kASS being on the jury, but her head swivel and angry eyes when Kass claimed she wasn't bringing the choas and Tasha was, was classic. Up there with Monica's eyes when she saw votes for her.

[ghoulina]

It will be interesting to see what Abi does.  She stabbed Andrew in the back when she voted out Woo, and aligned herself with two losers.  She will have some scrambling to do.

 

It will be interesting indeed. Abi was needed for awhile. Now? Not so much. And I don't think she will be good at scrambling. 

 

This was exactly my thought process as I saw the episode.  I actually typed out:  Does Joe even play football or is he just hot?  I think Spencer has an anti-thing for pretty guys like Joe and Woo.  The Cagayan audience can all remember how passionately Spencer hated Woo for making it to final because of how dumb he is or whatever.   I guess Spencer respects Joe a lot more because I don't remember Spencer aligning with Woo for even 1 second through 2 seasons.

 

While I like Spencer, I did think his whole, "Let me put this in Joe-Speak" was a little condescending. Woo is a moron, AFAIC. But Joe has not shown himself to particularly dumb. In fact, he was the only one who thought to take a different stance on the beams. He's not a genius or anything, but I don't think you need to spell things out for him like he's a child. 

[blackwing]

Kass is very passive aggressive.  She was acting like she was all confused about why Tasha was betraying her alliance.  She has that slow, monotone voice, which adds to her portrayal that she is just the slow, dumb, unattractive hick who is simply just confused about what is going on.

 

Unfortunately for Kass, that might have worked the first time around, but this time around, everyone knows how manipulative she is.

 

I would WANT people to spell my name wrong.  Wrong enough that it looks like a vote for someone else.

Last season, Joaquin (aka as Rotney's beloved "Wawk") cast a vote for "Cherilyn".  He was voting for Carolyn, but from behind the scenes tidbits we were told that Jeff had to stop and ask if it was a vote for Carolyn or Shireen.  So there is always clarification involved if there is any doubt.

[ghoulina]

Compare how Savage is discussed to how Kass is discussed, for example.

 

I feel like I've seen just as many negative posts about Savage. Maybe more. His super model story was mercilessly mocked. And I've seen many people outright saying they hate him and taking great delight in his confidence crumbling. 

 

I don't think the negative posts have anything to do with Kass being a woman. Personally, I just don't like how she seems to want to create chaos for the sake of it. I don't get the impression that she thinks things through fully, yet she somehow thinks she's smarter than most everyone else and they'd be fools not to fall for her manipulations. 

[NurseGiGi]

I loved the shot of Joe practicing his yoga with Savage in the background like a Creepy McCreeperson.  It looked like all the guy needed was a window and some binoculars.

 

These producers really do love those lingering, loving shots of Joe, don't they?  I think he's attractive but I think the hottest guy on that beach is, hands down, Jeremy.  Also, Jeremy seems to be playing a pretty smart game so far.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

There are many, many Survivor men who are more arrogant, more pushy, and they don't get the same vitriol.  Compare how Savage is discussed to how Kass is discussed, for example.  Or how Jeremy gets discussed.

 

Seriously you are implying that Jeremy is pushy?  He is playing one of the most passive games of anyone on the island.  Also, how on earth is he arrogant?!  I wrote a whole paragraph about how his entire body language in this game is meant to hide himself from the other players.  His whole style of play is in my opinion to downplay all aspects of himself.   The only person he "pushes" anything at is his closest ally Fishbach.  But I kind of get the impression that when anyone talks to Fishbach it's going to feel like a slight wind.

 

I don't even see Savage as pushy.  He's delusional and ineffectual, and it's easy to laugh at him because he's so weird.  

 

I'm sorry but I'm finding it incredibly hard to find one common personality trait between Jeremy and Kass and how this phantom quality somehow implies people's differing views on these players equal sexism.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[yamashinaryu]

But if you look closely, it was Tasha who started talking about Kass back at camp after the two talked. I think Tasha was guilty or in panic that Kass caught her lying.

I think this is the reason why Chaos Kass returned. And now I understand why Ciera joined the dispute.

But I was thinking, Kass' group could have initiated a Savage blindside instead of Tasha. Spencer could have joined the group in a heartbeat.

[ghoulina]

I don't even see Savage as pushy.  He's delusional and ineffectual, and it's easy to laugh at him because he's so weird.

 

Maybe not entirely pushy, but he is quite arrogant. He walked right up to his group last week and was all, "We're voting out Spencer, but Ciera is the decoy" - without even discussing it with them, especially Ciera. No one fought him on it, so he didn't really have an opportunity to get pushy. But none the less, it seems like he feels he's calling the shots, and takes great umbrage when people decide to play their own game. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yeah, but there is no shortage of hateful talk towards Andrew in these threads.  I still don't get how Andrew being arrogant means if someone hates Kass it's because she's a woman.  I really don't see Andrew and Kass as that similar.  I see Andrew's "pushiness" as being ineffectual while Kass's "pushiness" is vitriolic.  If someone doesn't do what Andrew wants he stews in the corner.  If someone doesn't do what Kass wants she has a screaming match.  

 

It's this implication that only when certain people dislike something does it have a basis in pure rationality, while when others dislike something it's because of a stupid/wrong reason.  There is no good evidence of this.  I like Tasha, but there are lot of people out there who don't.  I will not accuse them of hating her because she is female.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Bryce Lynch]

Yeah, but there is no shortage of hateful talk towards Andrew in these threads. I still don't get how Andrew being arrogant means if someone hates Kass it's because she's a woman. I really don't see Andrew and Kass as that similar. I see Andrew's "pushiness" as being ineffectual while Kass's "pushiness" is vitriolic. If someone doesn't do what Andrew wants he stews in the corner. If someone doesn't do what Kass wants she has a screaming match.

It's this implication that only when certain people dislike something does it have a basis in pure rationality, while when others dislike something it's because of a stupid/wrong reason. There is no good evidence of this. I like Tasha, but there are lot of people out there who don't. I will not accuse them of hating her because she is female.

I agree and I think Tasha is a great example. She is one of my favorite contestants ever. She is a bit "pushy"(assertive?) at times, but she is also very smart, charming, good at challenges and knows how to read the tribe and strategize.

[NurseGiGi]

I just did something I seldom do which is watch an episode twice and I noticed that the scene between Tasha and Kass on the beach seems staged, as though they had them repeat an argument that the crew didn't catch earlier.  Neither seems particularly heated in this instance and Kass just kind of calmly draws a line in the sand and they get up in tandem and leave.  I don't know, something about that scene seemed kind of wonky.  Anyone else notice this?

[lilabennet]

Savage is pretty much a goat at this point. If anyone could carry both him and Abi to the finals then they'll win the million. Sadly I think he's too abrasive to make the finals so we won't get t see him get destroyed in the finals.

 

I am not sure where you have gotten this impression from.  I agree that Andrew is unlikely to win, because he will get taken out well before the finale, but I don't think he is a goat.  The majority of his asshole-ish moments have been confined to confessionals.  I don't think he has been all that abrasive around camp and if he does make the finale he has as good a chance as anyone else to win at this point depending on who else is there and how the game goes from here.  He definitely hasn't ruined his chances by any over the top annoying, ridiculous or bad behavior.  Yet.

[peachmangosteen]

His responses:

- Tasha and Wiglesworth?

- Stephen and Kimmie?

- I didn't even write Kass's name down.

 

The last response from Jeremy is so annoying. Jeremy wanted Kass to go home. The only reason he didn't vote for her is because they split the vote and he happened to be one of the designated Ciera votes. And I find it rich he's trying to act like it's incredulous to suggest he's working with Alpha Males when he point blank stated that was his strategy. Sometimes I really can not stand him.

 

I disagree that Kass is disliked because she is a woman. She is obnoxious, arrogant, useless in challenges and terrible at the game. I don't think any men with that combination of traits have ever been popular.

 

Russell ticks most of those boxes and he is (sadly) quite popular with the general audience. 

 

I just did something I seldom do which is watch an episode twice and I noticed that the scene between Tasha and Kass on the beach seems staged, as though they had them repeat an argument that the crew didn't catch earlier.  Neither seems particularly heated in this instance and Kass just kind of calmly draws a line in the sand and they get up in tandem and leave.  I don't know, something about that scene seemed kind of wonky.  Anyone else notice this?

 

Yea, that scene was very strange. Everything with Kass/Tasha and then Ciera joining in was very odd. I think editing cut out a lot of what happened there.

Edited November 5, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Bryce Lynch]

The last response from Jeremy is so annoying. Jeremy wanted Kass to go home. The only reason he didn't vote for her is because they split the vote and he happened to be one of the designated Ciera votes. And I find it rich he's trying to act like it's incredulous to suggest he's working with Alpha Males when he point blank stated that was his strategy. Sometimes I really can not stand him.

Russell ticks most of those boxes and he is (sadly) quite popular with the general audience.

Yea, that scene was very strange. Everything with Kass/Tasha and then Ciera joining in was very odd. I think editing cut out a lot of what happened there.

Russell is mostly hated though he has something of a cult following. I think he was (for a while) a more effective and more interesting version of Kass. He was sort of like the car wreck you couldn't look away from.

Kass has her fans as well.

[Dale Griffin]

Bryce Lynch, on 05 Nov 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Spencer seemed to talk about his grudge with Kass more than Tasha did.

Spencer worked with Kass last week because it was his only hope to stay in the game. He quickly turned on her this week.

I think Tasha didn't work with Kass because it would have been a terrible strategic move and also because she rightfully didn't trust her. If Tasha had thought it was in her best interest to work with Kass she would have done so.

I don't see how any grudges with Kass are relevant to either Tasha or Spencer, other than the loss of one jury vote if they make it to FTC. Nobody seemed to like Kass much, so it is unlikely anyone would penalize Spencer or Tasha for holding a grudge against her.

Yeah, I don't see why Spencer is spared the criticism for the Kass treatment but Tasha's not.  Seems like a double standard to me.  Yes, Spencer did put things with her aside last week.  Because his ass was on the chopping block.  Once he was in a safer spot once the merge hit, he threw her right in the trash.  Yet Tasha is the devil for keeping Cagayan in her mind, while Spencer, who did the same, is the angel to you all?

 

I just . . . I can't even.

[peachmangosteen]

Russell is mostly hated though he has something of a cult following

 

He won Fan Fave. Twice. Sadly Russell is very popular with the general audience. He's pretty hated online though.

[Guest]

Yeah, but there is no shortage of hateful talk towards Andrew in these threads.  I still don't get how Andrew being arrogant means if someone hates Kass it's because she's a woman.  I really don't see Andrew and Kass as that similar.  I see Andrew's "pushiness" as being ineffectual while Kass's "pushiness" is vitriolic.  If someone doesn't do what Andrew wants he stews in the corner.  If someone doesn't do what Kass wants she has a screaming match.  

I won't defend Kass much because she clearly pushes buttons but does she really scream?   She seems pretty calm to me.  She gets accusatory and confrontational but it doesn't seem to come from that place of insecurity like Abi's can.  I think she's stirring shit to stir shit and that's part of her strategy.  If I wanted to recruit people to my side I might throw Tasha under the bus for her "bye bye Bayon" bs, too.  

[Dale Griffin]

That was a whole lot of WTF. I think what Kass was doing was trying to take a page from Tony's book when he maneuvered LJ into saying that Woo should be voted off and then used that to justify voting LJ off on the grounds of disloyalty. Kass knew Tasha would lie to her and say she was no longer with Bayon and then Kass could use that against her. But as everyone has already said, her mistake was in announcing it to the group instead of using it to plant seeds of doubt. Tony only told who he needed to tell about LJ before the vote and didn't tell everyone until after the vote when LJ was gone and couldn't explain himself.

 

I did enjoy seeing Tasha pee herself over it though. She could have calmly admitted she said it but was lying because she was talking to Kass, but instead she issued a panicked, angry denial. If her alliance doubts her at all now, it will be because of her reaction to what Kass said, so even though Kass blew herself up, I think she did some damage to Tasha, which makes me happy. As for her "bye bye Bayon? I don't talk like that," this is the same woman who more than once disparaged Kass on Twitter by calling her "little Tink Tink," so whether or not she actually said the words "bye bye Bayon," it does sound like something she would say.

What damage was done to her?  Her alliance believed her, not Kass.  I don't see anyone trusting her less because of this.  Everything blew back onto Kass and Ciera, not Tasha.  I don't see what's to be happy about, sorry (not sorry) to say.

[Skeeter22]

According to Kass, she, Ciera, and Abi were being ostracized as soon as the merge took place. They had already told Kass she was going before the fight with Tasha. She says Tasha went after her all day and throughout tribal council. Which explains Tasha's horrified look when she realizes Kass is the first juror. She must have thought Kass would get the boot and she could get in a few licks without consequences.