S04.E05: Haunted

[AyChihuahua]

The thing is, Oliver wasn't at all around after Moira died.  Maybe Quentin was kind and helpful back then.  Oliver just vanished and then Thea ran away.  Maybe Oliver just assumed Quentin being great to their family happened when he wasn't around? 

When Thea got into trouble with Vertigo and Laurel asked Quentin for his help (after Oliver asked her to ask Quentin for his help), he pretty much said "screw her [Thea]."  So I doubt they'd gotten all that close, if he couldn't be bothered re her arrest.

[Tangerine]

That was the most anti-climactic vision quest ever. You would think bringing back somebody's soul would take a little bit more effort. But whatever, I'm happy to see Constantine again. I admittedly had a tough time warming up to the show when it first aired, but I loved everything about Matt Ryan's portrayal. You can tell he has fun with the role yet you never once doubt he bad-arse he is. 

[BkWurm1]

That was the most anti-climactic vision quest ever. You would think bringing back somebody's soul would take a little bit more effort. But whatever, I'm happy to see Constantine again. I admittedly had a tough time warming up to the show when it first aired, but I loved everything about Matt Ryan's portrayal. You can tell he has fun with the role yet you never once doubt he bad-arse he is. 

I never made it past the pilot.  I'm just not that into the supernatural stuff. (Hence why I also never made it past the pilot for Supernatural) but I remember being a bit sad that I wasn't going to keep watching 'cause I did like Constantine.  I just didn't like all the blood and monsters and demons and crap.  BUT they had so much better effects when dealing with things from the other side.  It really did skew my expectations to how they would portray Sara's soul rescue.  Quite the let down.  Even if they couldn't afford lots of flash and CGI, couldn't they have at least put a weird camera filter on for the "other plane" stuff?  Just anything to make it look different from when they are really strolling around NP. 

Edited November 8, 2015 by BkWurm1

[AyChihuahua]

A little dry ice goes a long way.

[Sakura12]

I was hoping for so much more because they were saying it was a rough cut. There was no difference in that scene, nothing was added. Changing the filter would've at least done something to make it look more otherworldly. Or even having more than one pair of hands holding her. Constantine talked it up like it was going to be hard. It was three ghost guys and pulling Sara out of hot tub. 

[tarotx]

Maybe with Nyssa poisoning it, the pit didn't have much strength to hold on to Sara's soul? I guess I can fan wonk anything :p They really didn't put any money into the spells. Maybe the are saving it for later with the island and Present day end of the year fights? Fingers crossed any way...

[statsgirl]

It really does seem that they hyped getting Constantine on the show more than they put effort into making his appearance a good story.

 

 

I get that, really I do. I think my problem is that I didn't even see a reaction on Oliver's face when Thea said that outrageous "Quentin helped us after mom died" thing. Or maybe I need to rewatch the episode - I may have to mute the bit when Laurel starts with her 'but what about meeeeeeeeee' schtick.

I see your point.

 

I'm just going to go with part Oliver being happy and not wanting to get into a fight with anyone, and part Oliver Guilt that he stuck Thea into the Pit even though Malcolm warned him not to and then he left town instead of staying to make sure that there wouldn't be any lasting effects on Thea. If there's anything Oliver does well, it's guilt.

[Tangerine]

A little dry ice goes a long way.

Exactly! A different filter, or scarier looking ghouls would've helped a ton.

One thing I really liked was Oliver stroking Sara's hair after laying her down for the ritual. It was just a small gesture that was more convincing of their closeness than anything Laurel ever said about loving Sara.

[BkWurm1]

One thing I really liked was Oliver stroking Sara's hair after laying her down for the ritual. It was just a small gesture that was more convincing of their closeness than anything Laurel ever said about loving Sara.

 

Laurel groped a coffin.  Does that count?

[kismet]

I feel like I enjoyed everything they wrote for Constantine's character. Then again I never watched his show.

But the vision quest was dumb because they literally only had to lend a hand to pull SL out of a tub. It wasn't even a struggle. It was like here Sara here's my hand. It was so anti-climatic that they forgot what they were doing midway through and got distracted by shiny objects. Seriously they could have put a little more efffort into the tub scene.

[Hook75]

So now 2 shows are being used to pimp a new show? WTF?

 

I still hate Laurel.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Hook75

[looptab]

I didn't notice the first time, but after rewatching, I have to say that Laurel screaming "OLIVEEER" when the vision quest starts is one of the funniest things this show has ever done. They give me the best of laughs and they don't even mean to, LOL.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Gotta love the GIF wizards of the fandom for goodies like these. Can you tell this is my favorite scene from the entire episode? :) It took, what, less than 10 seconds but said so much about their relationship, that Oliver practically sprints to Felicity and just engulfs her. I really appreciated that after scenes others could claim to be somewhat shippy, the writers made sure to show this.  

 

 

 

GIF source

Edited November 8, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Bruinsfan]

I did like that Constantine respected Sara's skills enough to say if we fail she'll kill us all. I guess they told them that Dumbass Canary raised a trained assassin.

I don't know that he was thinking of Sara using her assassination skills. When big magic spells that involve sending people's souls to the netherworld go wrong, they tend to go wrong in a BIG way and I think that's what he was referencing.

[bijoux]

Gotta love the GIF wizards of the fandom for goodies like these. Can you tell this is my favorite scene from the entire episode? :) It took, what, less than 10 seconds but said so much about their relationship, that Oliver practically sprints to Felicity and just engulfs her. I really appreciated that after scenes others could claim to be somewhat shippy, the writers made sure to show this.  

 

I love how she checks his pulse.

[Sakura12]

I was with Laurel in calling Oliver a hypocrite, he is. He was all mad at Sara when she was out beating up misogynist criminal, he thought he was the only one that could be a vigilante. Then when Sin got shot by the Mayor, he told her you can't kill people. But you know if Felicity had been shot by the Mayor, the Mayor would be dead. That made it seem like when his loved ones are hurt only he can kill, if anyone elses loved ones are hurt he's on his "we don't kill" shtick.

 

She lost me after she call him hypocrite though. Then she made everything about herself instead of the actual victims, Thea, Sara, and all Thea look a likes. Laurel's entitled, selfishness is her consistent character trait.  

Edited November 8, 2015 by Sakura12

[KirkB]

Oliver mentioned to Thea at the end he was in no position to call anyone else out on hiding things or lying. He knew full well what kind of a hypocrite he was or could be. And yes, Laurel might have been able to make a good point if she didn't immediately derail that train of thought by wondering why no one seems to understand what she's going through. "I brought my dead sister back to life and turned her into a soulless monster who's killing people! Don't you see how that makes me feel?"

[Password]

I was with Laurel in calling Oliver a hypocrite, he is. He was all mad at Sara when she was out beating up misogynist criminal, he thought he was the only one that could be a vigilante. Then when Sin got shot by the Mayor, he told her you can't kill people. But you know if Felicity had been shot by the Mayor, the Mayor would be dead. That made it seem like when his loved ones are hurt only he can kill, if anyone elses loved ones are hurt he's on his "we don't kill" shtick.

She lost me after she call him hypocrite though. Then she made everything about herself instead of the actual victims, Thea, Sara, and all Thea look a likes. Laurel's entitled, selfishness is her consistent character trait.

Funnily enough I was OK with Laurel calling Oliver out on several things. What bothered me was the timing. If this happened in season 2 I would've sat back, relaxed and enjoyed my pop corn.

As it is, season 4 is too late. Too much has happened that I think the hissy fit she threw was just that: a hissy.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, Oliver is a hypocrite, and he does keep secrets, but calling him out about this particular thing was stupid, and I don't really think Laurel had much of a leg to stand on. I think she's proven time and again that Oliver is right not to trust her. And it's not because I think she's a bad person, or because she intentionally does dumb shit, but it's because she acts first and thinks later. You don't give important information to a person like that. 

 

I mean, what obligation did Oliver have to tell Laurel about using the Pit on Thea? None. The circumstances under which he used the Pit for Thea were completely different. Not only was Thea still alive, but Oliver really didn't have a whole lot of choice in the matter (not going to get into the argument about how he should've turned Malcolm over in ep 4 - at that point, what was done was done). Ra's came after Thea, and would've kept coming for everyone. I still think Oliver would've used the Pit even if that wasn't the case, but if Ra's conditions were a life of servitude in the LoA in exchange for Thea's life, Oliver would've gladly given that. 

 

In contrast, Laurel found out she could do it, so she did it. There was no sacrifice on her part, just a demand. And then she gets upset that Oliver's not concerned about her feelings when she's the one who did a dumbass thing that everyone who knew she was doing it warned her not to do? Nah.

 

I liked the conversation Oliver had with Thea about how he had no business getting mad about keeping secrets. That's how you acknowledge a character's shortcomings. Not by whatever in the hell that was with Laurel.

[dtissagirl]

I feel they wrote this arc the exact same way they wrote the Black Canary rise arc last season: they give the storyline an end point [Laurel becoming BC, Sara being alive so she can be on LoT], and then, instead of building the story to achieve that end point, they skip a whole bunch of steps, and what we're watching is the outline, instead of the full book.

 

I mean, they framed this whole thing as Laurel "saving" Sara, but without taking a single second to establish that Sara was in any kind of supernatural danger, or, I don't know, eternal torment, that justified the "saving" part. And it's taken as granted by the narrative itself, and by the other characters: Laurel saved Sara because that's what they needed to achieve.

 

Really, there's bad writing, AND THEN there's That's So Laurel.

[Chaser]

I was surprised at how much they skimmed the Oliver and Laurel history. Thea tossed out a few lines, but I thought there would be more of a reference to the pre-island relationship. The EPs have said before that they were always good friends and since this was about repairing that relationship, I thought there would be some reference to that. But it was like the writers weren't even going to pretend that was the case and kept it to our families have known each other a long time and you used to date. 

 

The last scene in particular was fluff. It was sweet and glossy, but I didn't get a honest connection between the characters. It was like the direction was "play it smiley guys!" Heck, Oliver kind of Dad joked her there with the "you just did" and finger point. Lol If I was straining to read romantic chemistry, that would have killed it.

Edited November 8, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Tangerine]

Yeah, Oliver is a hypocrite, and he does keep secrets, but calling him out about this particular thing was stupid, and I don't really think Laurel had much of a leg to stand on. I think she's proven time and again that Oliver is right not to trust her. And it's not because I think she's a bad person, or because she intentionally does dumb shit, but it's because she acts first and thinks later. You don't give important information to a person like that. 

 

I mean, what obligation did Oliver have to tell Laurel about using the Pit on Thea? None. The circumstances under which he used the Pit for Thea were completely different. Not only was Thea still alive, but Oliver really didn't have a whole lot of choice in the matter (not going to get into the argument about how he should've turned Malcolm over in ep 4 - at that point, what was done was done). Ra's came after Thea, and would've kept coming for everyone. I still think Oliver would've used the Pit even if that wasn't the case, but if Ra's conditions were a life of servitude in the LoA in exchange for Thea's life, Oliver would've gladly given that. 

 

In contrast, Laurel found out she could do it, so she did it. There was no sacrifice on her part, just a demand. And then she gets upset that Oliver's not concerned about her feelings when she's the one who did a dumbass thing that everyone who knew she was doing it warned her not to do? Nah.

 

I liked the conversation Oliver had with Thea about how he had no business getting mad about keeping secrets. That's how you acknowledge a character's shortcomings. Not by whatever in the hell that was with Laurel.

 

The other thing that bugged me big time about Laurel and Oliver's argument- she was hostile and defensive right off the bat. She didn't show any guilt or regret over the fact that her actions caused Thea to be hospitalized and bunch of people to be killed. She just automatically went into a snit about the fact that she was being called out on doing something stupid. It's REALLY hard to sympathize or find somebody like that likeable. Like, acknowledging your part in all of this might have gone a long way in garnering some sympathy from me when Oliver was lecturing her. Because, yeah Laurel is right, Oliver's a hypocrite and judgmental despite his endless parade of bad decisions, but what Oliver did was under different circumstances. He did it because Ra's was basically pointing an arrow at everybody's else's head if Oliver didn't agree and Laurel did it because she could.

[tangerine95]

Oliver has lied before and can be a hypocrite at times but none of the things Laurel accused him off made any sense at all.Him not telling her about Thea going into the LP is very diferent from her not telling him about Sara.He had no obligation to tell her about Thea.His sister was hurt and he didn't have much time to think about how Laurel would have felt like being left out of the loop.Her knowing about Thea changes nothing that happened and it didn't actually need to involve Laurel at all while Oliver was very much needed to stop Sara from hurting people including his sister who was Sara's main target.Not to even mention puting Sara in the pit involved Laurel taking his sister that was clearly not okay to the place of her trauma.And Oliver wasn't even hiding it from Laurel after Thea was back the way she was hiding it from him and getting Thea to lie too.Thea or Diggle could have told her anytime.The reason she wasn't told is because she's irrelevant to Oliver's life.

Then she went off about being Oliver's equal and I don't even get in what sense.She's not his equal in fighting skills or anything related to fighting crime since Oliver has years of experience on her.She proves time and time again that she can't be trusted and that he has a good reason for not telling her things.

Not even getting into how dumb she sounded saying Oliver doesn't care about her family but she loves his.

Edited November 8, 2015 by tangerine95

[AyChihuahua]

I think she's proven time and again that Oliver is right not to trust her. And it's not because I think she's a bad person, or because she intentionally does dumb shit, but it's because she acts first and thinks later. You don't give important information to a person like that. 

Totally disagree.

 

She does not think later. 

[apinknightmare]

Totally disagree.

 

She does not think later. 

 

Eh, she does on rare occasions. It's just after someone has stopped her from doing the stupid thing, and she definitely doesn't learn anything from it. So I'll use "thinks" very loosely, and change it to a vague "reflects on her idiocy."

Edited November 8, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

Eh, she does on rare occasions. It's just after someone has stopped her from doing the stupid thing, and she definitely doesn't learn anything from it. So I'll use "thinks" very loosely, and change it to a vague "reflects on her idiocy."

I was joking.

[apinknightmare]

I was joking.

 

Didn't seem like it. 

 

Sorry.

[kismet]

The problem is the writers tried to use the hallway as a meta airing of significant problems in the L/O relationship and it was neither the time nor the place. There other hallway scene was perfectly written to execute a major fracture in the relationship that for some reason they thought let's parallel reunion in a hallway. Good idea. Wrong hallway & wrong time. And frankly word script unless they were keeping with LL is delusional & self-absorbed.

Most of her grievances should have been aired in à hallway after the threat caused by LL lying and stupidity was contained & fixed. Then they could have resolved them. But end of the day, I don't think the writers care enough about the relationship to actually want to repair it. They just wanted to gloss over it, so we as the audience accept the new friendship status quo. Essentially they threw some verbal duck tape on it and said look its fixed sort of, but you shouldn't focus on it too much.

[Genki]

The last scene in particular was fluff. It was sweet and glossy, but I didn't get a honest connection between the characters. It was like the direction was "play it smiley guys!" Heck, Oliver kind of Dad joked her there with the "you just did" and finger point. Lol If I was straining to read romantic chemistry, that would have killed it.

For me that scene at the end especially with the finger point was Oliver in "Politician" mode to me. Did not feel genuine at all and I was OK with that because that is how you handle Laurel.

[hogwash]

There was a time to have that conversation and it wasn't outside Thea's hospital room a week into her zombie sister's killing spree. The hallway scene in 214 was the same. Sara and Oliver were clearly in the wrong and total moron that time. This time, Laurel was clearly in the wrong and a total moron. 

[Password]

There was a time to have that conversation and it wasn't outside Thea's hospital room a week into her zombie sister's killing spree. The hallway scene in 214 was the same. Sara and Oliver were clearly in the wrong and total moron that time. This time, Laurel was clearly in the wrong and a total moron.

Mhmm.

[statsgirl]

The big problem for me this episode was that Laurel didn't tell Oliver et co. that Sara was on the loose and killing people because she didn't want Oliver's judgey face. 

 

You can't be a superhero and still put yourself ahead of the good of other people. That's what makes a villain, putting yourself first.

 

Jbuffyangel had a good point in her review* of the episode when she said that Laurel is locked in power struggle with Oliver and it not only doesn't make them good lovers, it doesn't make them good partners.  It seems like Laurel is always trying to show that Oliver is wrong and she's right.  Thea has some of that too, unfortunately, but it's more acceptable because she's his younger sibling.

 

With Laurel, everything is about putting herself first, from not telling Quentin Sara is dead, to bringing Sara back, to not telling Oliver she's killing people.

 

Unless Laurel stops putting herself first, she's not going to make it as a character much less a superhero.

 

*The linking function isn't working for me. Review is here:

http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/132593959323/the-beginning-of-the-end-haunted-4x05-review

Edited November 9, 2015 by statsgirl

[Sakura12]

I do agree with Oliver and Laurel's entire relationship revolves around Sara. Without her they really have no reason to talk to each other. Oliver and Sara are friends. Sara is the only Lance connected to the Queens. Oliver and Sara are bonded by what happened to them after the Gambit, now Thea and Sara are bonded over both being in the Lazarus Pit. 

 

I don't agree with Sara being Laurel's greatest love or whatever she said. They barely showed them interacting, let alone interacting in a positive way. The scenes we have of them are Laurel calling Sara a bitch in the flashback and Sara leaving on the Gambit with Oliver, Laurel throwing a glass at Sara's head and blaming her for everything that went wrong in her life, after discovering she's alive, Laurel storming out after finding out that Sara and Oliver were dating because Sara brought him to a family dinner, Laurel doing a 180 and dolling out relationship advice for her ex and her sister, Laurel finding out her sister is covered in enough scars to be mistaken for a war vet and instead of going to talk to Sara about it she goes to Oliver. Then lastly is the infamous jacket scene where Laurel is grinning like it's Christmas morning as Sara goes back to the life of a killer, the life she tried to kill herself to get away from.

 

Where is this great sisterly love in that? Just reading that makes it seems like they barely even like each other and shouldn't really like each other. Not all siblings are best friends with each other. Jbuffyangel seems like she's grasping at anything to give Laurel a love so she doesn't go for Oliver.

 

Laurel's greatest love is always going to be herself. This episode just proved that ten fold. 

[tarotx]

Going to the family dinner as a couple might have been wrong but Laurel was the one throwing a tantrum. So yeah just like this time :p Plus doing that in a public hallway was the wrong time then too since Hello Neighbors. 

There was a time to have that conversation and it wasn't outside Thea's hospital room a week into her zombie sister's killing spree. The hallway scene in 214 was the same. Sara and Oliver were clearly in the wrong and total moron that time. This time, Laurel was clearly in the wrong and a total moron. 

[AyChihuahua]

I think jbuffyangel has a very definite tendency to try to make sense out of chaos.  Oh, this character is wearing this color in this scene, that means blah blah.  That character looked to the left when this one looked to the right.  That character likes tulips instead of carnations.  It's frankly entirely ridiculous.  There are some filmmakers who put that much thought into every scene, but I'd venture a good amount of money that they're not television filmmakers.  Not because tv is inferior, but because there's just not enough time.  And the Arrow makers simply aren't that thoughtful about stuff.  So I feel like jbuffyangel is trying really hard to make sense out of the morass that is Laurel Lance, and one thing that could make some of this make sense is if Sara were the love of Laurel's life.  It's just, there's nothing in the text or characterization to back that up, at all.  I basically think the EPs, etc., are kind of stupid.  I get that they're EPs of a television show that is actually on a network, which is a really huge deal in the entertainment industry, and so obviously they're not totally stupid.  But in a lot of ways, as filmmakers and writers, they really are kind of stupid.  That is particularly evident when it comes to Laurel.  Because lack of SA/KC chemistry aside, as that is no one's fault (although again it was stupid of whomever not to have done a chem test), the writing for Laurel and for the OQ/LL relationship was stupid and nonsensical and counterproductive right from the pilot, and that has only continued and even worsened.

[kismet]

I understand & agree with a lot of Jbuffyangel's theories & analysis (or at least part of them). I think she is completely wrong about SL being LL's true love - there is nothing in the script that indicates that. I didn't really believe that theory when she put it out there awhile back and this episode only confirmed what I ben thinking for awhile - LL's true love is LL. I remember when I started reading JBA, I remember her saying that she was pro-olicity, but not Anti-Laurel. It seems like that position has changed for her as it did for many of us. I feel like her reviews now have a very Anti-LL tone.

 

I do agree with others, that I think JBA likes to make sense of chaos. So she spins a theory until it fits the narrative & explanation she has or needs in her head. Sometimes it works, but sometimes it just requires too much stretching of the facts.

[calliope1975]

I do agree with others, that I think JBA likes to make sense of chaos. So she spins a theory until it fits the narrative & explanation she has or needs in her head. Sometimes it works, but sometimes it just requires too much stretching of the facts.

 

I agree. If we were talking about a Vince Gilligan show or something like Veronica Mars, where the show runners have a vision and everything in the show is layered to create that vision, then yeah, you can dissect the connections and meanings behind every little gesture and word. To be blunt, TPTB of Arrow don't remember what they wrote a season (or even a few episodes) ago. Some of the continuity seems to be happy accidents rather than deliberate plotting. I think they were much better in the first two seasons but really fell behind in S3, and it seems that setting up LOT is more important right now than focusing on Arrow itself. 

[bijoux]

It actually would be nice (for me) if that love of her life theory had any basis in the actual show. That would really add dimension to Laurel's character. But it just isn't supported by anything that has been shown on screen. On the other hand if Felicity and Oliver never happened I could fully stand behind Tommy or Thea being the love of Oliver's life because the show actually supports that, what with Oliver changing his entire MO in memory of Tommy and giving up everything for Thea. That's how you sell a love-of-my-life thing. 

[BkWurm1]

But, but, Laurel hugged a stuffed shark that one time!

[Morrigan2575]

Laurel's greatest love is always going to be herself. This episode just proved that ten fold.

 

Responding in Laurel thread

[tv echo]

apinknightmare and dtissagirl made two very good points (see above) that I haven't seen much in reviews:  (1) that Oliver had to pay a heavy price for using the LP to save Thea (gave up his freedom and a life of his choice by becoming the new Ra's), while Laurel made no sacrifice for using the LP to resurrect Sara; and (2) that we still don't know what Laurel was "saving" Sara from (hell, heaven, purgatory?).

Edited November 9, 2015 by tv echo

[BunsenBurner]

Which makes a very good reason for Laurel to die. She has not paid the price for anything and it will finally catch up to her.

[Sakura12]

That's what doesn't make any sense every character either has to pay a heavy price or at least owns up to their mistakes. Even Quentin, he admitted that siding was Darhk was a mistake but by that time it was too late to back out because Darhk was blackmailing him. Now he's trying to play both sides and will probably die because of it. 

 

Laurel never said she did wrong, is not going to pay any kind of price for what she did and will continue living and being an hero. Everyone around her paid for what she did. 

[bethy]

apinknightmare and dtissagirl made two very good points (see above) that I haven't seen much in reviews:  (1) that Oliver had to pay a heavy price for using the LP to save Thea (gave up his freedom and a life of his choice by becoming the new Ra's), while Laurel made no sacrifice for using the LP to resurrect Sara; and (2) that we still don't know what Laurel was "saving" Sara from (hell, heaven, purgatory?).

 

Maybe she was simply saving Sara from the nothingness of death itself. Do we have any indication in show of heaven or hell or purgatory (or that the writers themselves have any belief in an afterlife)? If you believe this life is all there is, then....  

[Delphi]

I can kind of see effete JBA is coming from, because of her username. BTVS aND Angel actually did small things that mattered, the colour of a dress or the number of an apartment actally meant something. Veronica Mars did the same thing. But Arrow is not those shows.

[kismet]

Either way, LL should have paid something to use the LP. Even most waterparks charge an admission. Part of me wonders if & hopes MM is going to come after her for an IOU when the shit hits the fan in NP.

[dtissagirl]

Maybe she was simply saving Sara from the nothingness of death itself. Do we have any indication in show of heaven or hell or purgatory (or that the writers themselves have any belief in an afterlife)? If you believe this life is all there is, then....  

 

The problem here is this would have been an entirely different storyline, one that would be about Laurel's lack of faith being tested. They would have had to establish Laurel as an atheist who believes nothing happens after death. Which also means not believing that souls exist. And then she would have been proven wrong, because she brought Sara's soul back not from nothingness, but from an afterlife that she herself saw in the vision quest. But this is not Arrow, nor it is Laurel at all.

[AyChihuahua]

They brought Sara's soul back, which means there is something after death in this universe, or there wouldn't have been a soul, and there wouldn't have been anywhere from which to bring it back.

[bethy]

Well, duh. (That's directed at myself in terms of there being some sort of afterlife in show.)

 

I guess I was thinking about it from Laurel's initial motivation. I wonder what Laurel thought about an afterlife in terms of bringing Sara back. Laurel probably gave as much thought to the theological implications of bringing Sara back from the dead in terms of her own belief system as she gave any other potential implications. Was anything said about ramifications to Sara's soul (or about her soul at all?) before Laurel dunked her?

 

(I know I'm giving this way too much thought--and surely more thought than the writers gave it--but I'm reading a book about the way people deal with suffering in light of faith or lack of faith, so I think I've got it on the brain.) 

[dtissagirl]

I think the little there is in the episode about what souls and afterlives signify in this universe point to Laurel at least believing that souls exist. Oliver says the LP resurrected Sara's body, and Laurel is the one that finishes with "but didn't bring back her soul". But that's pretty much it. There's nothing in the text that said anyone believed Sara's soul was in a bad place before Constantine showed up and revealed it so.

Edited November 9, 2015 by dtissagirl