S09.E07: The Zygon Invasion

[BizBuzz]

The Zygons, a race of shapeshifting aliens, have been living in secret among us on Earth, unknown and unseen - until now! When Osgood is kidnapped by a rogue gang of Zygons, the Doctor, Clara and UNIT must scatter across the world in a bid to set her free. But will they reach her in time, and can they stop an uprising before it’s too late?

[ApathyMonger]

A bit slow, but one of the better Earth Invasion episodes they've done. Hopefully it can follow through with the second half.

 

I didn't realise it had been so long since we've had one of this specific type of two-parter. They were in all of the RTD seasons, but the only one since the start of the Moffat run was the Silurian one in Season 5.

 

I kind of liked Evil Clara.

[Llywela]

That actually wasn't half bad. It addressed a lot of the questions I've had about New Who Zygons and demonstrated clear and loud why it was such a horrible idea for the Doctor to enforce a settlement that involved allowing millions of Zygons to live in secret on Earth. And there wasn't too much Clara, and when she was on-screen she wasn't the real Clara for the most part.

 

Plus Harry Sullivan reference! For those who don't know, Harry is one of my favourite Classic companions, so - very happy to get a New Who reference to him. He certainly knew all about Zygons, having been around for their first invasion (and would know how it feels to be copied). And we were later told he was doing something 'hush-hush' for NATO, while the novel Harry Sullivan's War has him developing antidotes for nerve toxins (and not enjoying the work in the slightest, but he has to follow orders). So all that fits. Gives the impression a fair amount of backstory research went into this episode. Although I can't quite picture healer Harry developing such a horrible weapon as mentioned here, even under orders. Unless it was him who called the Doctor, told him what was going on, and arranged the extraction of the weapon (because he couldn't stop it being developed, but he could tip the Doctor off and let him handle it...).

Edited October 31, 2015 by Llywela

[ApathyMonger]

I do wonder what was up with Real Clara that she missed 183(?) calls from The Doctor. Off with an overlapping Doctor?

[alrightokay]

I think I have to see Part 2 before I'll know how to feel about this one.  I loved the X-Files-ish vibe of the episode, what with New Mexico being one of the settings and Kate looking all Scully-like.  Unfortunately, Kate was so inept here, telling Zygon-Clara all about the anti-Zygon toxin and how few troops they have dedicated to this project, and then going to NM all alone.  (Is it too much to hope that she wasn't really "Zygonned" and that she's pulling a fast one on Bonnie over the phone at the end?)  Nevertheless, I liked the connections between this story and real-life current events, as heavy-handed as it sometimes was, and I thought the Zygons' new weapon of being able to look like loved ones from a person's memory was chilling (if a little awkwardly acted).  And while I had thought that Osgood was only amusing before, when she was a Doctor super-fan, now I think she's fascinating--her whole speech identifying as a hybrid, fully embodying the "peace," was beautifully acted and thought-provoking.  Now I can see why people wanted her to be a Companion--she and Capaldi have a nice rapport.

 

On a side note, It was fun seeing Rebecca Front and Peter Capaldi together again (they costarred in The Thick of It), though it was too bad they had to be so serious the whole time--just one witty or snarky exchange between these two would have been lovely.  (I was also disappointed last series when they never had Chris Addison and Capaldi do a scene together.)

Edited October 31, 2015 by alrightokay

[John Potts]

I liked it! A bit reminiscent of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, but they do say there are no original stories ad this was done pretty well. I'm starting to wonder when Clara was Zygon'ed , because I certainly wouldn't stick my hand into a control panel full of goop (of course, I'd take the stairs if there seems to be something wrong with the lift) and I'd expect UNIT to go "No, this is a crisis, you can't go back to you flat - we'll supply you with a change of underwear and a toothbrush!" (OK, one or both could have been a duplicate, but that just means the copies are stupid too!). And yes, it was asking for trouble to settle millions of Zygons on Earth without any way of keeping track of them  - but government organisations take idiotic actions all the time!

[ApathyMonger]

I'm starting to wonder when Clara was Zygon'ed , because I certainly wouldn't stick my hand into a control panel full of goop (of course, I'd take the stairs if there seems to be something wrong with the lift) and I'd expect UNIT to go "No, this is a crisis, you can't go back to you flat - we'll supply you with a change of underwear and a toothbrush!"

 

They showed it was before that, right after her first scene where she meets the boy in the stairwell and investigates the flat.

[HauntedBathroom]

I think that this story proves that Kate didn't inherit Daddy's tactical skills, Hell, she could have been out-thought by bloody Yates in this story. A point removed for the appearance of the soapdodger, but plus points for Eleven and War. I did enjoy final proof that Clara is Teh Evol.

 

One the whole, I greatly enjoyed it, but as with all two parters, you need to see the whole thing before you can make a final decision.

[ApathyMonger]

I didn't realise it until someone else pointed it out, but the ending of the episode, with the plane being fired down, is pretty unfortunate timing, given today's events.

[tankgirl73]

Wow, I think I loved this. Of course, final impression can't be made until next week's resolution, but I found it engaging and exciting.

 

I'm pleased with myself that I figured out that Clara was likely a Zygon, about 2 minutes before the reveal. Nothing really tipped me off, I think it just occurred to me that that would be the plot twist -- previously I was suspecting that it was the other lady. I just figured there had to be SOMEONE who was a surprise Zygon, and Clara seemed the most likely.

 

When she went into the boy's apartment, I'd noticed how beautiful her hair was. I'm not generally a Jenna Coleman fangirl, but during that scene I was sincerely thinking "wow, she's stunning, I love her hair like that." And then when she left the apartment, she put it up in a ponytail -- a very trivial thing that women do all the time and you barely even notice it happen. I noticed, only because I was at that point in time, actively admiring her hair. Once we saw the flashback, I quickly realized that that was our (very tiny) clue that something had changed with Clara -- ie, Bonnie -- at that moment.

 

Now I wonder if Clara actually is, indeed, dead. Bonnie surely wouldn't have left all those pods alive, she didn't need the connection with Clara anymore now that she's fully declared war. And if she knew she was about to kill the Doctor, then there's no need to lie to him about it either.

 

Wouldn't that be an interesting way to kill off a companion. She goes into an apartment, and basically doesn't come out, and that's the last we see of her. Except that isn't she still supposed to be in other episodes? So how does that work? Does Zygon!Clara:Bonnie turn good and go traipsing off with the Doctor, oh let me see the influence of Clara in her brain was just too strong, her love for the Doctor too big, that it overwhelmed her evilness?

 

This definitely deserves a rewatch, now that I know what was really happening...

 

ETA... so hang on... Both Osgoods are discussed openly and at length. And they openly lived as sisters.

 

What about Kate Stewart's Zygon double?

 

Is it possible that they've been hiding their double identity rather than living openly like the Osgoods, and one of them was just killed in New Mexico but the other one is going to come in and save the day?

 

Oh and clearly the Osgood Box has that DNA-inverting poison gas in it.

 

ETAA: Rewatching now, so I'm reminded of some other observations. I like the double-Osgoods video at the beginning. "My race is no exception... and neither is mine." And you really have no idea who is who at that point. Nicely done.

 

Osgood is zapped in the brain with the same zap Clara gets at the end. Is it possible that the real Osgood is still being held captive, and the one the Doctor rescued is yet another zygon copy? It seemed too convenient how she was rescued -- why were they holding her like that anyway? And that zygon copy must have something to do with how his plane escapes next week.

 

Last season, Doc was always griping about how much he hated soldiers. Tonight he was going into the field with them... but I think I noticed some side-eye perturbation at that fact.

 

I love the idea that the bad faction of zygons are youngsters. Teenage rebellion is an issue across the universe, it seems.

 

Doc says to Stewart on the phone: "Are you phoning me with your backside again?"  Stewart has butt-dialed the Doctor. OMG.

Edited November 1, 2015 by tankgirl73

[tankgirl73]

I do wonder what was up with Real Clara that she missed 183(?) calls from The Doctor. Off with an overlapping Doctor?

 

Yes, this! She seems awfully pleased with herself. It appears that she's getting off a motorcycle, but then she looks at something in the distance wistfully and we too clearly don't see it.

Ooh, I know. Timy wimy. Future Clara has been sent back in time to that moment. She goes inside knowing she's about to get captured by the Zygons and locked in that bubble thing. But because she knows all about it, because indeed this is her mission, she's able to do something with her brain (with the Doctor's help no doubt) that messes with Bonnie's connection, and that's how everything gets saved in the end.

 

Oh hells yeah -- we are not actually shown the motorcycle at the beginning. But at the END, when she's blowing up the plane, we see the motorcycle. I barely even noticed it on first watch, but on the second watch it stuck out like a sore thumb. Chekov's motorcycle. There's a time loop happening here somewhere, I bet!

 

Other thoughts: "You operate it by tittivating the fronds." Sweet. "Are you enjoying that?" "I snogged a zygon once... old habits".  HA!

More hybrids. So rather than it being a big moment of "here is the hybrid" at the start of the season and "what is it going to do" looming over the rest of the season, we have a whole theme of hybridization. Daleks, and whatever Missy is up to, Me/Ashildr, and now Osgood.

 

"I thought you didn't like being president of the world." "No, but I like poncing about in a big plane".  HA!

 

I suspect the army leader -- Grace? -- is also a zygon. Especially if the Osgood on the plane is a Zygon. She manipulated the situation quite well to get him to rescue her.

[elle]

Is it possible that they've been hiding their double identity rather than living openly like the Osgoods, and one of them was just killed in New Mexico but the other one is going to come in and save the day?

Since New Mexico was mentioned, and the theme of the rogue Zygons is Truth or Consequences, here's a little info for all of you about Tor C, NM.  Also a mention in Radio Times.

 

(The interstate sign looked real but the town not so much)

Edited November 1, 2015 by elle

[catrox14]

Since New Mexico was mentioned, and the theme of the rogue Zygons is Truth or Consequences, here's a little info for all of you about Tor C, NM.  Also a mention in Radio Times.

 

(The interstate sign looked real but the town not so much)

 

I laughed when there was a palm tree. I was like no. there are no palm trees native to N.M. 

Oh well, my spec that Jack would show up was wrong. BUT I'm not ruling it out for some point this season. I don't think they name-dropped for no reason. 

 

So that happened.

[benteen]

They weren't kidding when they said this was the most political episode of Doctor Who in years.

 

I now believe that report that they tore up every script when Jenna Coleman agreed to come back and rewrote them.  Clara has contributed next to nothing this season.

 

That being said, I thought this was a very good episode.  Very intense and effective alien invasion storyline.  Nice to see Osgood back and I liked her answer about what she was now.  Okay, I take that explanation.  I'm glad this storyline was picked up once again as the thought of an alien species living secretly on Earth was fascinating.  I do wish someone would throw the Doctor's decision and the Time War in his face with how the Zygons are now threatening Earth.

 

Kate definitely proved why she's a scientist and not a soldier tonight.  She should have pulled her weapon on that Zygon immediately when he gave himself up.

 

Yay, Harry Sullivan reference!  I like your explanation Lylwela that Harry might have contacted the Doctor about that weapon though I don't know how he could have.

 

I actually knew about Truth or Consequences years ago because when Mick Foley used to wrestle as Cactus Jack, his fictional hometown was Truth or Consequences, New Mexico.

 

This two-parter played out very effectively and really felt the start of a two-parter.

[angora]

I called Clara as a Zygon as soon as they showed her calmly leaving the apartment where a screaming boy had been carried off by his father.  They threw me momentarily when she immediately called the Doctor out on referring to himself as "Doctor Disco" (why?), but then I remembered Zygon Osgood having memories of Osgood's sister in The Day of the Doctor.  Pretty sure I spent the rest of the episode shouting, "She's a Zygon, people!  Pay attention!" at my TV.

 

My money's on Kate faking being a Zygon, though.  She's overdue for a clever move.  Liked having a reference to Harry, but as mentioned upthread, I don't buy him developing that nerve toxin - sounds BRUTAL.

 

Congratulations, show - you managed to bring a killed-off character back without inexplicably bringing said character back from the dead.  Loved the opening with the two Osgoods, and I like how devoted she is to preserving the peace between both species.  Like the Doctor, not having learned the new "don't have to keep the original alive to maintain the image" rule, I'd figured she must have been the human.  Glad to have Osgood back, and even happier that the show was able to do it without cheating.

[NCChic]

Anyone else see the picture of the First Doctor on the wall as they were coming down the stairs in the UNIT safe house?

[elle]

I laughed when there was a palm tree. I was like no. there are no palm trees native to N.M. 

At least it wasn't the usual, familiar Saguaro cacti  (they don't grow above 4,000 feet)  It is like seeing snow covered mountains in Minnesota (Little House on the Praire ref) :0)

 

I called Clara as a Zygon as soon as they showed her calmly leaving the apartment where a screaming boy had been carried off by his father.  They threw me momentarily when she immediately called the Doctor out on referring to himself as "Doctor Disco" (why?), but then I remembered Zygon Osgood having memories of Osgood's sister in The Day of the Doctor.  Pretty sure I spent the rest of the episode shouting, "She's a Zygon, people!  Pay attention!" at my TV.

Twelve actually referred to himself as "Doctor Disco" in one of his voice mail messages to Clara.

 

Anyone else see the picture of the First Doctor on the wall as they were coming down the stairs in the UNIT safe house?

Yes!  Nice touch!

[benteen]

I caught the First Doctor portrait too.

 

I guess the Doctor finding a hybrid every episode is supposed to be this season’s Bad Wolf.

This story loses points for the idiotic soldiers who ALL decide to march to their death in that church.  How about just one of you goes in if you are really questioning your orders?

Edited November 1, 2015 by benteen

[cardigirl]

Interesting that there was no preview for next week's episode after this episode. Trying to prevent spoilers?

I enjoyed it, but I doubt that Clara is really dead. If she is, I'll be rather pissed.

[forum4idiots]

This story loses points for the idiotic soldiers who ALL decide to march to their death in that church.  How about just one of you goes in if you are really questioning your orders?

yup.  or just really bad writing.  no budget perhaps for a long drawn out altercation......either way, it insults the viewers.

 

pretty sure kate easily handled that zygon and it was really her answering fake clara.

Edited November 1, 2015 by lovebug1975

[angora]

Twelve actually referred to himself as "Doctor Disco" in one of his voice mail messages to Clara.

Right, that's why it threw me.  I thought, "Oh, I guess it really is Clara, since a Zygon wouldn't have known that he'd called himsel- no wait, Zygon Osgood had memories of Osgood's sister.  Yep, Clara's totally a Zygon."  The "(why?)" was wondering why the Doctor would call himself Doctor Disco, not why Clara would mention it - I didn't phrase that very clearly.

[benteen]

yup.  or just really bad writing.  no budget perhaps for a long drawn out altercation......either way, it insults the viewers.

 

pretty sure kate easily handled that zygon and it was really her answering fake clara.

 

Yep.  Definitely an insult.

 

If the Earth population knew what the Doctor and Kate had done, they would be furious.  I wish someone from Unit would throw that into the Doctor's face, as well as the fact that the Time War was what destroyed the Zygons homeworld to begin with.  This is one of the times I'd like to see the Doctor's sanctimonious attitude thrown back into his face.

Edited November 1, 2015 by benteen

[Lantern7]

I'm a little cranky because the Mets blew Game 4. I waited a few minutes before firing up the latest episodes. Some problems . . .

 

1. After "The Day Of The Doctor," twenty million Zygons emigrated to Earth. Huh?!? I think such an influx eclipses even Alien Nation, and it stretches belief that so many people could be added without "regular" humans noticing.

 

2. And did they all have British accents? Seriously?!?

 

3. The Doctor mentioning that he wears underwear with question marks. We're going to be drowning in fan art of Nine/Ten/Eleven/Twelve/War with that by the middle of the week.

 

4. Couldn't the UNIT troops shoot to wound? I mean, if it's my loved ones trying to talk me down, I'd figure they would understand a bullet to the foot.

 

5. And the Doctor is still President of the World? I guess they wanted to separate him from the TARDIS, not to mention give him the Nixon shot before boarding the plane.

 

Once again . . . I DVRed the episode, and I don't think it's right for next week's episode to be teased on a BBC America show I don't care about. And I was too busy watching the Mets try (and fail) to even the Series. Is the trailer up anywhere?

 

I did like the "twins," and it's nice to have ambiguity as to whether Osgood is "real" or not.

 

ETA because I'm in a bad mood . . . should there have been  reference to the First Doctor at UNIT? We didn't see those guy until Two.

[Llywela]

I'm glad this storyline was picked up once again as the thought of an alien species living secretly on Earth was fascinating.  I do wish someone would throw the Doctor's decision and the Time War in his face with how the Zygons are now threatening Earth.

 

Kate definitely proved why she's a scientist and not a soldier tonight.  She should have pulled her weapon on that Zygon immediately when he gave himself up.

 

Yay, Harry Sullivan reference!  I like your explanation Lylwela that Harry might have contacted the Doctor about that weapon though I don't know how he could have.

Yes about the Doctor's involvement - it's felt wrong to me that he forced that 'peace settlement' ever since the anniversary special when it aired, and this episode demonstrated why, loud and clear. We've had an ongoing theme of the Doctor being held accountable for the long-term effects of his actions. This is the perfect opportunity to call him out on it! Forcing UNIT to allow Zygons to immigrate to Earth en masse was a horrible idea, for so many reasons I can hardly even begin to count them all. For starters: alien race that has already tried to invade and conquer the world more than once, capable of shape-shifting into any form and thus impersonating anyone, has already demonstrated tactical ability to infilatrate top ranking offices, etc. Plus, in order to take human form, the Zygons have to form an active link with a living human being. Now, when we first met them back in 1975, they first had to abduct that human and place him/her in a pod that captured the body print, which had to be renewed from a living subject ever few hours. Since then, as explained in this episode, the technology has developed. It has developed to the point where they can actually reach right into someone's mind and take their memories and personality, as well as their appearance. That is a HUGE violation. How can that ever be considered a good thing? Plus, back in 1975, we were told that Earth isn't actually a comfortable environment for Zygons, so once they took control they intended to use human labour to transform it into the likeness of their own planet (which had already been destroyed decades before the Time War was a thing) "Polar icecaps must go, the mean temperature raised several degrees, thousand of lakes with the right mineral elements constructed. I shall recreate my own planet here on Earth," said the Zygon Broton (they had Zygon names in 1975, not human names like Bonnie). And I could go on. No, it was a horrible idea to allow Zygons to infiltrate human society on such a massive scale, in secret, rewarding them for their attempt at invasion and conquest, in effect. The parallels with real world refugee crises were heavy-handed and not really comparable, although I appreciated the attempt at exploring the complexities of such a situation. It just falls a bit flat to me because I find the basic premise of the situation flawed (a frequent problem, with this era of the show).

 

I think if Harry really needed to contact the Doctor, he'd have found a way. Ex-companions generally do - if nothing else, they all learn from their experience with him to be extremely resourceful! I'm still in two minds about this anti-Zygon nerve toxin. On the one hand, the Doctor himself happily blew up a spaceship full of Zygons back in 1975, recognising that it was the only way to stop them. In the 1975 encounter, no one was in any doubt about the fact that Zygons were deadly - just a handful of them caused chaos, and there was a whole fleet known to be on the way and could be expected to arrive sometime in the future. Developing a weapon to use against them would be only sensible in such circumstances - so, yay for Harry contributing to the development of such a weapon, putting his skills and experience to good work. But. The Harry we met on-screen just...wasn't the type to develop a toxin capable of turning an alien species inside out. That's horrible. It isn't who he was. He was a gentle soul, the only UNIT officer we ever met who didn't habitually carry a weapon. And this episode sent a clear message that the Doctor didn't approve of such a weapon. So it isn't quite the respectful nod to a former companion I might have wanted (but then, this is the era that thought bringing the Brigadier back as a Cyberman was a fitting tribute. So). Unless it was Harry who warned the Doctor about the toxin. Or unless we're going to turn around next week, decide that the toxin is needed after all, and have the Doctor go back in time to steal it for a different reason than everyone thought he'd stolen it...

 

My brain hurts.

Anyone else see the picture of the First Doctor on the wall as they were coming down the stairs in the UNIT safe house?

Yes. Nice touch for fans, although of course, he's one of the few Doctors who never actually worked with UNIT, at least not on-screen.

 

2. And did they all have British accents? Seriously?!?

 

5. And the Doctor is still President of the World? I guess they wanted to separate him from the TARDIS, not to mention give him the Nixon shot before boarding the plane.

We were told that most of the 20 million were absorbed into Britain, where they 'took the form of the nearest person'. That would explain the accents.

 

I thought the Doctor's 'president of the world' thing was for the duration of that crisis only - and it probably was, I think he was just playing with the title here.

 

I really hate that Kate has been dumbed down so much - she was much more shrewd and capable than this when we first met her. Mind, the same thing happened to her father back in the '70s. I also hate that her new sidekick Jac got killed - the character was a bit of a wuss, but I've always liked Jaye Griffiths.

 

Speaking of - how sad an indictment of Clara is it that when she was so abominably rude to Jac, it didn't tip me off that she was evil, because I was quite prepared to believe that obnoxious, self-involved Clara would be that rude?

 

I do really like that almost every speaking guest role in this episode was female.

Now I wonder if Clara actually is, indeed, dead. Bonnie surely wouldn't have left all those pods alive, she didn't need the connection with Clara anymore now that she's fully declared war. And if she knew she was about to kill the Doctor, then there's no need to lie to him about it either.

 

Wouldn't that be an interesting way to kill off a companion. She goes into an apartment, and basically doesn't come out, and that's the last we see of her. Except that isn't she still supposed to be in other episodes? So how does that work? Does Zygon!Clara:Bonnie turn good and go traipsing off with the Doctor, oh let me see the influence of Clara in her brain was just too strong, her love for the Doctor too big, that it overwhelmed her evilness?

What about Kate Stewart's Zygon double?

 

Oh and clearly the Osgood Box has that DNA-inverting poison gas in it.

I kind of like the idea of Clara being killed so casually here, but I doubt she's really dead. Just like I doubt Kate is really dead. We'll see.

 

I got the impression the Osgood Zygon was the only one of that original group to keep the identity she'd first taken - they'd formed a bond, that was why they were chosen as the primary peacekeepers. The rest would have fallen under the terms of the settlement and been dispersed to take other identities.

 

Speaking of which, it sounds as if the settlement of the Zygons was horribly mismanaged, even if UNIT was under-resourced for the job. Talk about a single point of failure!

 

I like your thinking about the nerve toxin being in the box. I guess we'll see.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Llywela

[Kalliste]

Since New Mexico was mentioned, and the theme of the rogue Zygons is Truth or Consequences, here's a little info for all of you about Tor C, NM.  Also a mention in Radio Times.

 

(The interstate sign looked real but the town not so much)

So... Geronimo Springs is just a coincidence then?

 

The first bath in the area was built at "John Cross Ranch" over Geronimo Springs in the late 1800s

 

I quite liked this episode, I joked about Clara being a Zygon all along and that's why she's better this season... I didn't actually realise that she had been made into one :D It would be a good way to say goodbye to Clara I think, less hype and drama than the previous companions but I assume it won't happen.

 

I also liked Clara's look in this episode, she looked great in the red lipstick and her hair back. Good work Zygon Clara :)

 

Although the characters were a bit dumbed down this episode I did like the 3 sections of the story and I much more enjoy the Doctor when he's off on his own adventure and Clara is just doing whatever.. but perhaps that means he places too much trust in her opinion. 

 

All in all, I liked the episode and I hope Osgood makes it out alive and that she becomes a companion at some point in time.

[truther]

This show is rapidly losing me.  I kept waiting for the "aha" moment where the episode would suddenly make sense and instead it was just one "Kill the Moon"-esque thing after another.  Is UNIT an elite force or a troupe of imbeciles?  When did Truth or Consequences, NM turn into a movie set meant to look like a decrepit Mexican pueblo?  (And did you notice the Mexican tricolor on the cop's shirt?)  Why bother with have-aliens-conquered-Earth? and is-the-Doctor-dead? cliffhangers when we already know the answers?

 

I hope the other commenters are right about Kate's plan, but it still seems ludicrous that she would go there alone, given what is known about Zygons and how they assume a host's form, and how easily they seem to be taking over everything else.

 

I don't think it's ever cool to have somebody shooting down a passenger jet with a missile.  Though I'll concede that that's kind of an arbitrary line. 

 

Please no more hybrids. 

[Occasional Hope]

 

I laughed when there was a palm tree. I was like no. there are no palm trees native to N.M.

 

Not to mention that Thingummystan looked more like somewhere in Austria.

[GenieinTX]

Overall I was meh on the episode but I LOVED the whole thing with Osgood.  I loved that they lived as sisters, and that they never wanted to answer who was human and who was Zygon.  They both wanted to be hybrid.  And when one died, the other was so broken by it.  That is a great story, and a great way to bring Osgood back after she died.

[Primetimer]

The Doctor's greatest in-universe fangirl returns from the dead to insult continuity, and we couldn't be happier.

Read the story

[benteen]

 

Is UNIT an elite force or a troupe of imbeciles?

 

The portrayal of Unit has been mixed over the years.  Sometimes in Classic Who, these "elite" soldiers would get their assess handed to them when fighting glorified thugs.  The Brig could be portrayed as bumbling too (see The Three Doctors) but he never displayed the level of incompetence that Kate shows here and this might be Unit at its most inept.

 

LOL about Jac not knowing anything was up with Clara.  I thought something was a little off but I thought Zygon Clara imitated her annoying and arrogant attitude pretty accurately for the most part.

 

The Zygons are owed absolutely NOTHING, especially when they came to Earth as invaders in the first place.  This was a decision imposed by the Doctor and aided and abetted by Kate Stewart, not the rest of Earth.  I'm sure they'll be rewarded somehow by the Doctor for their actions.  You want to hold the Doctor accountable for his actions, show?  This is the story to do it!

 

This is the second story this writer has done where the decision-making of the people of Earth (or lack thereof) is disregarded.  Clara disregarded what the people of Earth wanted in Kill the Moon being the other.

Edited November 1, 2015 by benteen

[clack]

I can't make sense of the whole premise.

20 million Zygons? Most of whom immigrate to the UK -- a nation of only 60 million? Why the UK? And they take the form of the nearest person? That means that a third of the population of the U.K. now have their exact duplicate running around -- and nobody notices!

And how many civil servants and government officials have to be in on this conspiracy? Are Zygons issued with IDs? Credit cards? Jobs? How does this sudden influx affect the economy? Does no one notice the effect on the schools, who overnight must provide space for a one third increase in student population? (And are there actual Zygon children, and do they sometimes pose as adults, as apparently adults sometimes pose as children?)

I like Dr Who, always have, but the writing frequently falls into this "the moon is really an egg" nonsense . I mean, the writing should think through the implications of its fantastical premises -- the story will be all the stonger, more involving, for it.

[Llywela]

Please no more hybrids. 

Yes. Especially since, if this is human Osgood, she really isn't any kind of hybrid. And if she's Zygon Osgood...she still isn't a hybrid. Human Osgood is just a human who made friends with the shapeshifting creature that stole her face and identity and hacked into her memories (Stockholm syndrome, anyone?). And Zygon Osgood is just a shapeshifter who has grown fond of the current form she's wearing, having befriended its real owner. Neither is 'part human, part Zygon', but rather 'wholly one, sympathiser of the other'.

 

So. I thought the episode was generally okay, in the sense that it was entertaining to watch and there was more I could appreciate about it than usual. But, as is so often the case these days, I found the basic premise of the plot inherently flawed.

[benteen]

I can't make sense of the whole premise.

20 million Zygons? Most of whom immigrate to the UK -- a nation of only 60 million? Why the UK? And they take the form of the nearest person? That means that a third of the population of the U.K. now have their exact duplicate running around -- and nobody notices!

And how many civil servants and government officials have to be in on this conspiracy? Are Zygons issued with IDs? Credit cards? Jobs? How does this sudden influx affect the economy? Does no one notice the effect on the schools, who overnight must provide space for a one third increase in student population? (And are there actual Zygon children, and do they sometimes pose as adults, as apparently adults sometimes pose as children?)

I like Dr Who, always have, but the writing frequently falls into this "the moon is really an egg" nonsense . I mean, the writing should think through the implications of its fantastical premises -- the story will be all the stonger, more involving, for it.

 

Same writer did this one and Kill the Moon so that explains that.

 

This was a treaty imposed on humanity by the Doctor that only Kate, Osgood and a few others knew about.

Edited November 1, 2015 by benteen

[Llywela]

This was a treaty imposed on humanity by the Doctor that only Kate, Osgood and a few others knew about.

Which is at least part of the reason the settlement of the Zygons was such a shambles - an operation of that scale requires a lot more resource than UNIT actually had available.

[clack]

The deeper implication here is that the Doctor is the villain of this story.

Out of a naive do-gooder pacifism he imperiously imposed a disastrous, undemocratic, and secret treaty that allowed an alien invasion, though momentarily deferred, to ultimately go forward.

[Llywela]

The deeper implication here is that the Doctor is the villain of this story.

Out of a naive do-gooder pacifism he imperiously imposed a disastrous, undemocratic, and secret treaty that allowed an alien invasion, though momentarily deferred, to ultimately go forward.

Since it was a three Doctor collaboration that came up with the plan, we might almost say he's a bad influence on himself!

 

When the Fourth Doctor encountered a group of Zygons trying to take over the Earth back in 1975, he attempted negotiation, but when that didn't work he gave in and blew them up! No complexity, no moralising: just a problem and a pragmatic, dramatic solution! I'm not sure what's better or worse...

[benteen]

Yeah, 4 wasn't above the blowing them straight to hell solution.

[HauntedBathroom]

To be fair to the Doctors, DotD saw the trio force the humans/Zygons to work together to not destroy London. I doubt he hung around to see the details getting resolved, that's not his thing. This whole intergration thing sounds like one of Kate Nice-But-Dim ideas, and she probably went for that because the Osgoods were pushing for it.

Edited November 1, 2015 by HauntedBathroom

[benteen]

Fair enough.  But this was an excellent case of “fixing things and running away from them” that should be explored further.

 

The Doctor certainly should have been backhanded for the “It’s called peace” comment.

Edited November 1, 2015 by benteen

[penguinnj]

 

Yes. Nice touch for fans, although of course, he's one of the few Doctors who never actually worked with UNIT, at least not on-screen.

Yeah, but I think Harry, at least, meets or sees him in The Three Doctors- that's how they could have known what he looked like.

 

I liked this one, but I agree that Osgood won't be THE hybrid- I have a feeling that's still coming.  But tremendously good to see her again.  And Kate may not have been at her best- and I'm not sure we'll know that until next week- but I consistently love her shoes and appreciate that they are always spunky- nice continuity.    

 

I am really liking the whole Doctor faces the Consequences- wink NM- arc this season i.e. Ashildur, Davros, Zygon.  Very subtle (compared with Bad Wolf) but it's really working for me.  Will need to see Part II to know if this pays off, but I'm looking forward to it.

[Llywela]

Yeah, but I think Harry, at least, meets or sees him in The Three Doctors- that's how they could have known what he looked like.

Harry didn't, no - he wasn't yet with UNIT in The Three Doctors. Benton, however, would have seen him. The Brig met him in The Five Doctors. And anyone trying to research the Doctor in his various incarnations could turn up images and other evidence of any of them, the First included. He just isn't the most obvious to find a picture of at UNIT, since he was never associated with them.

[tankgirl73]

I am really liking the whole Doctor faces the Consequences- wink NM- arc this season

ooooohhhhh duh... Yeah, that's the theme, isn't it?

In that case, Clara's expected-death this season will likely be a direct consequence of something he does -- or has done in the past which comes back to bite him. This will be the climax of the thematic progression. And the solo episode will be him battling with the Truth of his Consequences.

[penguinnj]

 

Harry didn't, no - he wasn't yet with UNIT in The Three Doctors. Benton, however, would have seen him. The Brig met him in The Five Doctors.

Yes- you are right- sorry :)  Just wanted to point out that the First was seen by a couple of members of Unit.

BTW- does anyone else think the Osgood box looked a lot like the Moment?

[chitowngirl]

 

Interesting that there was no preview for next week's episode after this episode. Trying to prevent spoilers?

During the end credits, there was a CGI saying that there would be a preview of the next Doctor Who during The Last Kingdom. 

[cardigirl]

Thanks! I did see it, they haven't done that before.

[benteen]

Yes- you are right- sorry :)  Just wanted to point out that the First was seen by a couple of members of Unit.

BTW- does anyone else think the Osgood box looked a lot like the Moment?

 

It was probably Osgood fangirling again.

 

The First Doctor did work with the military in The War Machines, which was like a proto-Unit story.

Edited November 1, 2015 by benteen

[elle]

So... Geronimo Springs is just a coincidence then?

I had a good laugh at myself about this.   (inner monologue)

Well, I did not know that; but it would make sense considering the history of the area.....

(light bulb sloooooowllyyyyy coming on)

OH! Yeah, right! "Eleven"

 

Yes, totally a coincidence then! :0)

 

When did Truth or Consequences, NM turn into a movie set meant to look like a decrepit Mexican pueblo? (And did you notice the Mexican tricolor on the cop's shirt?) Why bother with have-aliens-conquered-Earth? and is-the-Doctor-dead? cliffhangers when we already know the answers?

I did not! (indigent huff)  Now I will have to actual rewatch the episode to look for it.

 

You know the only reason that location was picked was for the anviliscious name.I was guessing that they may have gone to Spain for a location shoot.  Are there palm trees in Spain?

 

Coincidentally, the travel feature of today's paper was for TorC!

 

 

I don't think it's ever cool to have somebody shooting down a passenger jet with a missile.  Though I'll concede that that's kind of an arbitrary line.

I agree with you about this, and the way it was done almost casually is also disturbing.  

 

 

BTW- does anyone else think the Osgood box looked a lot like the Moment?

Yes!

 

Back in DotD we saw a large number of Zygons under the Tower of London preparing "cup of soup" paintings.  Now, I'm not the greatest at remembering details, so my question is about a line by someone about preparing Earth for the Zygons and that by the time it was ready the Zygons in the paintings would come out to take over.

 

And just what did become of those Zygons anyway?  Did the Doctors just leave them all there, have the wedding, then run off to save their planet?

[penguinnj]

 

Both Osgoods are discussed openly and at length. And they openly lived as sisters.

What I found interesting about that is - and correct me if I' wrong- didn't Osgood already have a sister?  In DOTD the Zygon teases her because her sister is the pretty one, right?  So did her original sister just jump on board with the Zygon double?  I'm not sure that will be answered in the next episode, but it is the sort of dangling thread that drives me nuts :)

[elle]

What I found interesting about that is - and correct me if I' wrong- didn't Osgood already have a sister?  In DOTD the Zygon teases her because her sister is the pretty one, right?  So did her original sister just jump on board with the Zygon double?  I'm not sure that will be answered in the next episode, but it is the sort of dangling thread that drives me nuts :)

Yes, you are correct.   One of the many questions that comes up in this episode.

[Cthulhudrew]

So, when Clara asks which Osgood this is*, the human one or the zygon one, the Doctor replies neither and both; that they had a super-special link that made them part one and part the other.

 

Then, later, the Doctor asks Osgood which one she is? That seemed odd.

 

*Plus, while I realize this was evil Clara he was talking to at the time, it still kind of begs the question- when Osgood was killed by Missy, why didn't the Doctor let Clara know her double was still alive at the time?