S02.E06: Rise Of The Villains: By Fire

[Perfect Xero]

I think Tabitha is genuinely sadistic. So I agree, as far as that goes. But I find it creepy how she seems to exist only as Theo's sidekick, and to have no will or life of her own. She's so endlessly obedient and subservient to him. I find that much scarier/weirder than that she likes to play with bullwhips or says ridiculous things with a deadpan expression.

 

Before the show introduced Bridget, I hadn't really thought much about Tabitha and Theo's relationship. But that conversation between Bridget and Selina has stuck with me.

 

Bridget:  what good's freedom if you're alone?

Selina:  what good's family if you're a slave?

 

I don't know that Theo is really so different from Bridget's brothers. I think that Theo finds people who are alone, and offers them a place to belong -- but only in return for their freedom. And he's finding plenty of people who think the deal he's offering is pretty good, which is pretty sad.

 

I see Theo and Tabitha as more like Fish and Butch than Penguin and Butch or the Pikes. Fish inspired real loyalty, meanwhile Penguin and the Pike rely on brainwashing and threats to keep people in line.

 

Butch was crazy loyal to Fish and basically existed only as her sidekick (until Fish got run off and Falcone forced him to be Penguin's second), but it was a genuine loyalty and not robotic like his forced loyalty to Penguin. Which is how I see Tabitha, she's not brainwashed or forced, she's Theo's sidekick because she wants to be Theo's sidekick. Which is still creepy, but a different type of creepy, IMO.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Perfect Xero

[Danielg342]

Its freaking episode 6 of like 22. Give it time. Galavan will get his adversity.

Also the less Barbara the better! The actress is terrible and so is her character. Seems like you are just looking for anything to criticize.

I've been here since episode one, so I'm hardly some guy finding it “fashionable” to bash Gotham.

Not that this should matter. I'm entitled to my opinion, and I'm going to share it whether you like it or not.

[Kathemy]

Nobody claims you aren't entitled to share your opinion. I was merely pointing out that the weaker material of season one gave the show a bad reputation and how some reviewers seem to continue bashing it out of habit. They already paid their membership fee to the Gotham Hater Association, so to speak.

[Danielg342]

Silver/Natalie is pretty, but hardly dresses or acts provocatively or seductively on the show IMO, and hasn't done anything so far to indicate that she's there for sex appeal or to be "jail-bait" (she certainly doesn't seem to be attempting to draw the interest of any of the adult characters so far), if anything her appeal to Bruce seems to be that, in addition to being pretty, she's nice and sweet.

Her dress probably wasn't as revealing as I thought it was- memory can trick you like that- but, so far, her only role on the show is for Theo to attract Bruce. She really had only one line tonight- cooing Bruce to “hang out some time”, which I shouldn't have to explain what it means to a teenage boy. So I'm supposed to buy that, for Bruce at least, she's got sex appeal...and I'm not sure how much I like a 15-year-old girl in that kind of role, regardless of how old Bruce is, since it's playing with legalities.

I hope I'm wrong- I hope that Silver becomes a girl who is genuinely Bruce's friend and helps him take down Theo. However, considering how many other characters are disproportionately used for sex appeal on this show- Tabitha, Barbara, Kris Kringle, all the way down to Fish and Liza- I'm not leaving my hopes up.

[Kathemy]

This is exactly what I really like with Gotham.

 

Alfred hitting on Lee was sold as embarrassing to the audience only because she was taken and Alfred didn't know that. It's not like the show made a big fuss about Alfred being attracted to her, and why should it? She's an attractive grown-up woman who any man could take a liking to. It's the same thing with Bruce and Silver, or Bruce and Selina for that matter. Teenage romance is real, and it's not going anywhere.

 

The show recognizes this without being judgmental about it. This isn't a show depicting graphic sex or nudity in any setting, so the idea they'd do that with the teenagers is unthinkable. Besides it would be prohibited by network rules. I wouldn't be surprised, if Silver is anything like she is in the comics, if she floated a sex offer to Bruce at some point, accompanied by cries of horror from the puritans in the audience, but trust me, nothing will come from it. Complaining about a show portraying a real, factual aspect of human interaction... I just find it so silly.

 

99% of the Batcat shippers aren't rooting for them getting in bed together anytime soon. I'm proud to count myself among them, because I think their on-screen relationship is magical, and I don't need or want an outright sexual dimension to it at this point.

[immortalfrieza]

Some may say this Gotham is too dark, but I think Gotham kind of needs to be.

I don't. There's a big difference between being dark and being so completely freaking hopeless that it never looks like even a guy running around beating up criminals in a bat suit in a few years would ever be able to realistically turn it around. If Gotham continues on it's current path of getting more and more over the top insane with each episode while the efforts of people like Gordon keep accomplishing jack by another season or 2 the city of Gotham will be so foul, so depraved, so utterly irredeemable that it would be easier for the U.S. government to carpet bomb the entire city and rebuild from the ashes than it would be to try and fix the place.

 

In fact, this is a major issue with the Batman IP in general once they started going dark.

Edited October 29, 2015 by immortalfrieza

[Kathemy]

I hope I'm wrong- I hope that Silver becomes a girl who is genuinely Bruce's friend and helps him take down Theo. However, considering how many other characters are disproportionately used for sex appeal on this show- Tabitha, Barbara, Kris Kringle, all the way down to Fish and Liza- I'm not leaving my hopes up.

Nope, not going to happen. Silver is introduced as a vehicle for conflict between Bruce and Selina, and a tool for Theo to bring Bruce down. I don't mind either. I actually think Silver's addition sheds some additional light on the differences betweeen Batboy and Kittengirl so I'm all for it.

[Danielg342]

Mileage will vary, but I have yet to see any reason to think Silver is there as anything other than an object of desire for Bruce, deliberately placed by Theo. Silver has had so little to actually do so I can't extrapolate from what I don't see.

Furthermore, I never said I had a problem with teenage romance. I have a problem with casting a 15-year-old girl as an object of desire. Big difference. Silver can be 15 as much as the writer wants, but if she's going to be an object of desire, then have the actress be 18.

Immortalfrieza, I agree with you that this season is too unbelievably dark. I suppose, to be fair, the last few episodes have occurred over a span of maybe a week or two at most, but I can't expect Gotham to continue descending into mayhem with the U.S. Government just turning a blind eye.

One of the things I appreciated about last season was that at least things were “real”. It was still crazy and still a dystopia, but at least I had a sense that someone was in control and people could live their lives. This season? How could anyone live their lives knowing that if they made the wrong look they'll be offed, and how can anyone trust that services (especially the police) can delivered knowing there's no hand at the end of the tiller.

Besides, this season has shown that Gotham has a “weapons Wal-Mart” and a human trafficking ring, all operating in the open. No *way* there isn't at least a state politician worried about what's going on there.

[Kathemy]

Furthermore, I never said I had a problem with teenage romance. I have a problem with casting a 15-year-old girl as an object of desire. Big difference. Silver can be 15 as much as the writer wants, but if she's going to be an object of desire, then have the actress be 18.

A fifteen-year-old girl will be an object of desire for a fifteen-year-old boy. That's how boys are wired. That's what's meant by "teenage romance."

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Gotham Cleans Up The Streets
If enough criminals kill each other, that should eventually mean there are only law-abiding citizens left, right?

[Chicago Redshirt]

Speaking of Galavan, would it really work to almost strangle a congressman in order to get him to support your election to Mayor? It's one thing to have congressmen "in your pocket," with bribes and such, since they can't give you away without exposing themselves. But to do violence to a congressman seems a poor tactic to me. But what do i know..I'm not a villian.

 

Poor Jim..he is always in a lose lose situation. How on earth does he ever manage to become police commissioner?

 

 

Knowing that Galavan is BSC yet beloved and thought of as a hero, it seems like a poor idea for the congressman to expose that he was kidnapped and threatened with death. Who's going to believe him, first off? And even assuming someone does, it's signing your own death warrant.  

 

Lastly, of all the gripes...there's Edward Nygma and Kris Kringle. Well, I thought Kringle's death would be the worst of it, and, while that aspect is what still bothers me most about the entire storyline, seeing Kringle and Nygma getting extensive scenes together was pretty grating. Chelsea Spack and Cory Michael Smith are fine actors...but they have no chemistry. Nothing about that entire sequence really sold me that they were a couple...they just felt like two actors going through the motions, although Spack was especially sweet and endearing. Probably what bothered me most is that seeing Kringle freak out about Nygma killing Tom Dougherty is that it reminded me how silly their entire relationship was...Nygma really didn't do anything to charm Kringle and yet she turned around almost instantaneously.

 

...and all for what? Just so she can be killed and give Nygma more stuff to angst over? Please. She had nothing to do, really and it's a shame because I think she could have been fun to have around. A "Bonnie & Clyde" riddle-killing machine might have actually been fun. Of course, this show hardly ever respects the talents of its female cast, so why should I expect their treatment of Chelsea Spack to be any different?

 

I also believe Nygma's descent should have been slow, and his real moment of darkness should have come in Season 3. It sounds like his story is just an afterthought, when Nygma is becoming one of the most important Batman criminals of all time. He should get proper focus and attention that storyline deserves, instead of having it rushed since he's always the "B" plot.

 

 

Maybe I'm giving the show more credit than it deserves, but Kringle's having mixed feelings toward Tom Dougherty isn't atypical of abusers. In terms of Nygma not doing anything to woo Kringle, he did save her life. And it seems realistic that in the wake of that, she saw all the creeper things that he had done in the past in a different light. 

 

In terms of pacing things, I don't have any issues with it. As popular a property as Gotham may be, I think there's no guarantee it will last 4 seasons. Penguin has actually accomplished more at this point than his comic book counterpart ever did -- more or less undisputed ownership of the criminal underworld. Even with two deaths on his hands, Nygma has barely done anything criminal yet. Dougherty was self-defense, and Kringle's killing was accidental. I look forward to "Evil Ed" trying to talk him into doing what comes next, and him becoming more like the criminal mastermind he is in the comics. 

[paigow]

Theo has a long game of being Gotham's landlord with his Robocop style reclamation / undertaking. That's probably good enough for Tabitha to follow orders and wait for the day she is named Police Commissioner...

 

I see Theo and Tabitha as more like Fish and Butch than Penguin and Butch...

[driedfruit]

I'm really intrigued by Indian Hill. I don't know how it fits in yet, which is something I like. I'm glad Bridgit survived though, I think Gotham really benefits from characters who aren't one-offs, who you can at least have some investment in.

 

One thing Gotham is getting right is how it genuinely feels like a city of wackos rather than a series of one offs. Other shows have crossovers to get that fuller, wider universe feel, but Gotham does it with the big cast and the villain arcs.

 

I never get a servant vibe from Tabitha. She's clearly the younger sibling, and her taking orders seem to me as more of a familial dynamic than as forced labor. The show made a point to show that she's getting antsy standing by the sidelines, so I'm sure her part in this plan will increase further down the line.

Edited October 30, 2015 by driedfruit

[rue721]

OK, you guys are probably right, and Tabitha follows Theo's orders and doesn't really ever think for herself because she's got her eyes on a prize that he's promised her or something like that.

 

I wish they would be clearer about her motivations, though. She seems like someone who would be liable to go rogue.

[Snookums]

I was hoping to the last that Kristen would not be a victim again.  Sadly, the inevitable won out.

 

 

Groan.... this damn show. Not only do they waste the female talent, they do so in a particularly infuriating way. Spack was playing Kris in a manner that heavily foreshadowed "I'm nuts and have a basement full of dead boyfriends who wanted to 'rescue' me!" and that made me forgive the entire sloppy, crappy Stockholm Syndrome I Guess She Just Forgot He's Stalking Her arc with her character. He did save her life during the massacre, but they never talked about that as a couple! Not once! Suddenly they're just Gotham's Cuddliest Duo, making fondue and beaming at each other! 

 

But I let it go because of the way the actor was playing Kristen--there had to be a long game going on here! There had to be! And then sex, Ed's confession and my husband and I were convinced up to the last second that she was deliberately trying to get him to say the words "I killed him"--either to tape him and blackmail him, or because she was going to totally get off on it and become his partner. 

 

But no. She just cries and freaks out and I just threw up my hands when she was all "why were outside my house? YOU WERE STALKING ME!" and I'm all YES, moron, he was, and you yourself called him out on that last season! And then just kinda blew it off for no good reason at all!

 

Kris was to Ed as Barbara is to Jim: both characters had no through line. They just were wafted by the script thither and yon to give the all important male protagonists something to react to, no matter how little sense it made either character or story wise. 

[Dobian]

The was the weakest choke-out I've ever seen.  Did Nygma have one hand on her throat for like twenty seconds?  How is she dead and not at the most, just knocked out? 

[Danielg342]

The was the weakest choke-out I've ever seen. Did Nygma have one hand on her throat for like twenty seconds? How is she dead and not at the most, just knocked out?

I forgot about that. I mean, I know Criminal Minds taught me that psychosis can supposedly bring out increased strength, but still...there's no way Edward Nygma is strong enough to throttle Kris Kringle with one hand.

[Danielg342]

I let it go because of the way the actor was playing Kristen--there had to be a long game going on here! There had to be! And then sex, Ed's confession and my husband and I were convinced up to the last second that she was deliberately trying to get him to say the words "I killed him"--either to tape him and blackmail him, or because she was going to totally get off on it and become his partner.

It might have been really fun if we learned that Kristen was secretly wearing a wire and told Nygma that she now has evidence to bring him in front of Barnes. The thing about The Riddler was that he was smart, ensnaring people with well-designed traps. Wouldn't it have been fun if he learned that from Kristen?

[paigow]

The was the weakest choke-out I've ever seen.  Did Nygma have one hand on her throat for like twenty seconds?  How is she dead and not at the most, just knocked out? 

Time slot appropriate choke...10pm would see her head hit the door repeatedly in 20 seconds.

[Hamatron]

I don't know if it was a time slot thing. A few weeks ago someone bled out after being stabbed in the neck, and Fish scooped her eye out at one point. There's all kinds of disembowling and limb removal over on the Vampire Diaries, which is on at the same time (different day).

I think it was probably shot and blocked the way it was to make it seem more ambiguous until the end. I assumed he was smothering and choking her, but they had to shoot it in a way that gave allowance for Nigma to be oblivious to the impact of his actions. It ended up kinda weird though.

[paigow]

I don't know if it was a time slot thing. A few weeks ago someone bled out after being stabbed in the neck, and Fish scooped her eye out at one point. There's all kinds of disembowling and limb removal over on the Vampire Diaries, which is on at the same time (different day).

I don't watch Vampire Diaries so I won't try to extend any generalizations there...but part of the 8pm thing is violence by men against helpless women. When Agents of SHIELD was on at 8pm, Ward beat May up pretty bad, but May was not restrained and Ward absorbed significant damage as well.  For Gotham, if the eye removal scene had been written as somebody rips Fish's eyeball out, it would have happened off screen. Kringle was clearly out-matched so her death scene was short and non-graphic.

[HalcyonDays]

I must be getting soft in my old age, but this episode had so many disturbing parts, but at the same time, some good "revenge" parts.

 

The auctioning off of the woman, the Senator teetering on the books, noose around head, poor Bridget being all burned and now subject to "experiments". This show literally turned my stomach.

 

At least the Pike brothers died. I wish Bridget could have enjoyed her revenge (glad she killed them) and lived a good life, as opposed to what happened to her.

 

I still really dislike Penguin. Weak, ineffectual without his band of goons. And him saying he would reward Butch's loyalty. Yeah, I saw how you 'rewarded' him.

 

Galavan is very dislikable too - someone please take him out.

Liked the boxing scene with Alfred and Bruce. And Alfred almost knocked out Bruce! This show does not shy away from violence, no matter who the person is.

 

Hey Nygma - there is a nifty little thing called CPR. Kringle wasn't "choked" long enough to die at all, but let's just say she was - CPR Ed. Cee. Pee. Arr

 

Harvey and Jim remain my saving graces. Harvey was in it too little, but he provided that snark that I so need. Cat too - Camren Bicondova is so good in this role. All of her scenes were great.

 

But overall, just so creeped out (just finished watching it) and utterly disturbed by so much of it.

[Hamatron]

I don't watch Vampire Diaries so I won't try to extend any generalizations there...but part of the 8pm thing is violence by men against helpless women. When Agents of SHIELD was on at 8pm, Ward beat May up pretty bad, but May was not restrained and Ward absorbed significant damage as well.  For Gotham, if the eye removal scene had been written as somebody rips Fish's eyeball out, it would have happened off screen. Kringle was clearly out-matched so her death scene was short and non-graphic.

Oh, I didn't know about this rule, interesting. They play fast and loose with it, though. I can think of a few examples of Vampire Diaries or Reign sneaking something through. Maybe no one is paying too close attention to CW.

[paigow]

Oh, I didn't know about this rule, interesting. They play fast and loose with it, though. I can think of a few examples of Vampire Diaries or Reign sneaking something through. Maybe no one is paying too close attention to CW.

Agreed about CW...Arrow has a lot of torture for 8pm

[mtlchick]

Oh Ed.  At least you got to all the way with Kristen before you know...told the truth and then killed her.  (Also I really want her dress.)

 

Was it dark?  Yes.  But then again I've always seen Gotham as the opposite of Metropolis where it's dark with sharp edges to the skyline and buildings and never a sunny day.  So I knew going into this it will be dark those some of the scenes were a surprise (I'm still getting over Fish gouging her own eye out.)

 

 

Liked the boxing scene with Alfred and Bruce. And Alfred almost knocked out Bruce!

 

I did see Alfred distracting Bruce for a moment just to sucker punch him but I laughed anyway.

 

To the citizens of Gotham; Jim Gordon can't save everything and everyone.  Stop making him make promises! 

[The Kings Foot]

Loved that Gordon walked on Selina holding a shotgun on his gf and he  just let out sigh and poured himself a drink.  This is the new normal for Gotham city.

 

Loved that Selina's actress got another actress her own age to interact with, really allowed her to show off her own ability. 

 

Bridget burns her brothers. That enough agency for you ?  Also we see that she was reguallry  chained up and tortured with those  fire crackers so yeah...thats abuse.

 

The producers just hired Jessica Lucas so they could  play dress up with her didnt they ? Fine by me. 

 

p.s. Also liked Selina calling Gordon on his friendship with Penguin. Why should anyone beleeive he'd go against "his little friend". Right now Gordon is a dirty cop in bed with Penguin. 

Edited November 4, 2015 by The Kings Foot

[RCharter]

Like I said in an earlier thread, it is apparently very fashionable to bash Gotham. People will jump at any excuse.

 

Seen as a whole, I'd rate season 1 of Gotham as "good". From what I've seen of season 2, that's upgraded to "excellent". The positive word of mouth is spreading. Several shows appealing to people who could get into Gotham are on their last legs. As an example the Vampire Diaries are starting to wind down and fans of that show could appreciate Gotham especially if the actors are given a bit time to grow up and settle into their roles. Gotham holding its own despite being pitted against the pilot of Supergirl is nothing short of fantastic. We are absolutely certain to get at least four seasons out of this show and if I would make a guess, I'd actually say six.

I think its just a thing with a certain segment of people in this day and age.  Its cool to hate things.  There are one or two shows that I will randomly hate watch if I have nothing better to do, because its funny to snark.  But I feel as though with Gotham, hating the show is supposed to be a way for some people to show they are hip and authentic and with it.

 

I like the show, but I just sit back and enjoy it.  I enjoyed it the first season too.  However, I did not enjoy Alfred punching Selina and so I hope they don't go there again.

 

 

Mileage will vary, but I have yet to see any reason to think Silver is there as anything other than an object of desire for Bruce, deliberately placed by Theo. Silver has had so little to actually do so I can't extrapolate from what I don't see.

Furthermore, I never said I had a problem with teenage romance. I have a problem with casting a 15-year-old girl as an object of desire. Big difference. Silver can be 15 as much as the writer wants, but if she's going to be an object of desire, then have the actress be 18.

Immortalfrieza, I agree with you that this season is too unbelievably dark. I suppose, to be fair, the last few episodes have occurred over a span of maybe a week or two at most, but I can't expect Gotham to continue descending into mayhem with the U.S. Government just turning a blind eye.

 

 

I can't imagine the federal government ever getting involved because I can't remember when the federal government has ever gotten involved in Gotham in any of the movies or any other adaptation of the franchise.  The federal government never got involved when Joker basically poisoned people with deodorant and household products, even though those products are regulated by the federal government and tampering with them would be a federal case.  The franchise is littered with federal crimes in each of the movies and never once does the US Government get involved.  I don't see why one would expect it from this show when its never been an issue before.

 

I also don't get the problem with casting a 15 year old girl as the object of desire for a 14 year old boy.  If the two of them were to "have sex" the show wouldn't show any of it because they haven't shown much of it in the past.  If your problem isn't with a 15 year old being the object of desire, I don't quite understand your insistence at having an 18 year old cast in the role.  

 

One thing Gotham is getting right is how it genuinely feels like a city of wackos rather than a series of one offs. Other shows have crossovers to get that fuller, wider universe feel, but Gotham does it with the big cast and the villain arcs.

 

I never get a servant vibe from Tabitha. She's clearly the younger sibling, and her taking orders seem to me as more of a familial dynamic than as forced labor. The show made a point to show that she's getting antsy standing by the sidelines, so I'm sure her part in this plan will increase further down the line.

Yes, it is starting to feel that way.  From the Jerome "virus," to the indoctrination of the loonies into positions of power, to Indian Hill, to Penguin its really starting to feel that way.  I'm really interested to see which way the commissioner goes, because I'm still not sure about his intentions.

[Kel Varnsen]

The was the weakest choke-out I've ever seen.  Did Nygma have one hand on her throat for like twenty seconds?  How is she dead and not at the most, just knocked out?

That bugged me at first but then i just figured it was how they dealt with the limited amount of time a show will have. From what i remember from my lifeguard days the aversge is around 8 minutes without ogygen for someone to die. But it's not like they can spend 20% of the shows runtime showing Ed choking his girlfriend.

[Camera One]

I'm so tired of Galavan and everything just falling at his feet, as Daniel said above.  And now he knows Bruce's inner thoughts and can play him like a violin regarding his belief that his father was a good guy trying to rein in a bad company?  

 

I did feel for Kat.  I hate it when Gordon is going after the wrong target.  It will continue with him going after Penguin next, I guess.  

 

It is difficult to get attached to any character on this show, since Kringle is already dead.  I'm glad it wasn't a gory one, so I will forgive how quickly she suffocated.  Maybe she had asthma or something.

 

I don't mind Silver being actually the same age as Bruce, since I am so sick of shows where some older female seduces a teenage boy.  As it is, she already looks older than him since the actor looks so young and innocent.  

[andipandi]

Despite the choking maybe not being technically accurate, I found it to be the most creepy thing I ever saw on this show. Butch's hand getting chopped off, Fish popping out her own eyeball, Penguin stabbing people left right and center, I can handle, but the slow loving closeup on poor Ms. Kringle as she died... that was disturbing.

I haven't watched an ep since.

[wayne67]

I like the show, but I just sit back and enjoy it.  I enjoyed it the first season too.  However, I did not enjoy Alfred punching Selina and so I hope they don't go there again.

 

Alfred punched another minor this episode... But it doesn't seem to bother anyone when Baby Bruce gets sucker punched by his de facto guardian. How curious. 

 

I did like the addition of Indian Hill to the show. Maybe we can have some revolving door villains instead of relying so heavily on an increasingly ineffectual Penguin. I suppose it's one thing to attain power, it's another to hold it. 

[RCharter]

Alfred punched another minor this episode... But it doesn't seem to bother anyone when Baby Bruce gets sucker punched by his de facto guardian. How curious. 

 

I did like the addition of Indian Hill to the show. Maybe we can have some revolving door villains instead of relying so heavily on an increasingly ineffectual Penguin. I suppose it's one thing to attain power, it's another to hold it. 

He was teaching Bruce to box.  I certainly hope that people can recognize there is a difference, if not.....oh well

[John Potts]

As I said last week, it's a shame Penguin's ascent didn't take longer, because charting a character's rise is more interesting than watching him maintain it, especially given that:
a) He's doing a fairly poor job ATM and
b) We KNOW* he's going to survive until Bruce grows up
So when it comes to Penguin v Galavan, it's rather lacking tension. Besides Galavan is having it far too easy, since I would have thought Gotham gets these "New Dawn" candidates every so often and greets them with, "Yeah, that's what the LAST guy said!" Also this:

 

Jodithgrace Speaking of Galavan, would it really work to almost strangle a congressman in order to get him to support your election to Mayor?

 

 

I was wondering what was stopping him from calling the Feds as soon as he got out of there - I guess there's the implicit threat that they could do it again if he went against them, but if that happened, you would expect the cops to look at Galavan VERY closely.

 

Loving the new Butch "Hammerhand" (very comic book), particularly as they didn't make it clear whether he's leading Penguin into a trap or not (I would guess Yes, but it could go either way). Poor guy - he's going to have to take up "Getting brainwashed" as a hobby. I guess the writers are fans of "The Evil Dead", with the suggestion of a chainsaw prosthetic.

 

Also like the portrayal of KittyTeen - she's definitely developing into the Catwoman of the comics (self interested but with enough of a conscience to want to help others - if it doesn't hurt her). And she was absolutely right to call out Gordon on being in bed with the Penguin, as The King's Foot observed. She was a little harsh in accusing him of killing Bridgit, but you could certainly see her viewpoint (and Gordon should know better than to promise to protect her). Loved Lee's utter nonchalance in being held at gunpoint and Gordon's "Hi Lee - Hi Selena" attitude in walking in on the scene!

 

* Granted they could have him NOT succeed (just like they could have Bruce never become Batman) but I doubt that will happen.

Edited February 21, 2016 by John Potts

[Chas411]

Poor Bridget and Kristen - what awful endings. Kristen especially I really liked her.

[b0ssy11]

I don't know if this is the right section to ask but it is to do with this episode. I'm after the black top Kristen Kringle wears to Nygmas place. Can anyone help me?