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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Random thought -- what if the "you have failed this city" Oliver says in 301 is him hallucinating/dreaming/on drugs, and he says it to himself? Didn't Amell say Oliver *literally* sees a version of himself that scares the shit out of him? If I assume he's using "literally" correctly, it means Oliver has to actually see himself.

 

Or else I'm just gonna imagine Ted Mosby appearing behind Amell and saying "you mean FIGURATIVELY".

 

Or else I'm just gonna imagine Ted Mosby appearing behind Amell and saying "you mean FIGURATIVELY".  HAHA

 

I like this theory, because it looks like Oliver goes in for a facepunch after he says that and I would be here for watching Oliver beat the shit out of himself (in a hallucination, of course).

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

Yeah, I wondered the same thing awhile back about a dream situation--specifically because of the "literally sees a vision." If this is the ep with Vertigo, it's definitely possible that he'd get dosed and see some crazy stuff. Like, I'm starting to believe that Felicity bloody on the table is not real. So maybe there is an explosion, and he gets dosed, and his vision is of the fallout? Like Felicity dies, Oliver goes nuts and kills a bunch of people, Diggle ends up hurt/dead somehow too.

 

What I don't get is why he'd come out of that daze and think, "Well, that seems awfully accurate--better go push Dig and Felicity away to protect them!"

Edited by Carrie Ann
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Yeah, I wondered the same thing awhile back about a dream situation--specifically because of the "literally sees a vision." If this is the ep with Vertigo, it's definitely possible that he'd get dosed and see some crazy stuff. Like, I'm starting to believe that Felicity bloody on the table is not real. So maybe there is an explosion, and he gets dosed, and his vision is of the fallout? Like Felicity dies, Oliver goes nuts and kills a bunch of people, Diggle ends up hurt/dead somehow too.

 

What I don't get is why he'd come out of that daze and think, "Well, that seems awfully accurate--better go push Dig and Felicity away to protect them!"

 

Yeah, I'm wondering about the Felicity thing too, because a) why is no one doing anything to help her? If she's bleeding from the head, why would Oliver just be standing there frozen in his mangrief? I know they didn't bother to get her help after she cracked her head open in Streets of Fire, but come on, kids. And b) if she was out with Oliver on a date (not on Arrow business) and she got hurt like that, why would they not take her to an actual hospital?

 

ETA: The EPs did say on a couple of occasions last week that Oliver and Felicity never actually made it to the main course during their date, so something must happen (although it might not involve Felicity going 'splodey).

Edited by apinknightmare
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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

I think Team Arrow is probably breaking up too. Part of it simply has to do with Oliver being broke and unable to pay them. Perhaps Diggle is going to work for A.R.G.U.S. since Lyla works there. Felicity will work for/with Ray Palmer.

 

I watched one of Greg Berlanti's SDCC interviews the other day, and he downplayed the "Oliver is poor" thing. He said "poor" is a relative term when it comes to Oliver, and he won't exactly be struggling. And in another interview, Stephen mentioned he doesn't think there's a lot to be mined from Oliver having money troubles, so I don't think a potential Team Arrow breakup is going to be a result of money woes.

 

Besides, did Oliver ever pay them? Diggle, I suppose, since he was Oliver's black driver (hee!), but Felicity was on the QC payroll, so I'm not sure there would have been a reason to pay her a separate Team Arrow salary.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

I watched one of Greg Berlanti's SDCC interviews the other day, and he downplayed the "Oliver is poor" thing. He said "poor" is a relative term when it comes to Oliver, and he won't exactly be struggling. And in another interview, Stephen mentioned he doesn't think there's a lot to be mined from Oliver having money troubles, so I don't think a potential Team Arrow breakup is going to be a result of money woes.

 

Besides, did Oliver ever pay them? Diggle, I suppose, since he was Oliver's black driver (hee!), but Felicity was on the QC payroll, so I'm not sure there would have been a reason to pay her a separate Team Arrow salary.

 

Oliver must have gotten ownership of Verdant back considering the Arrow cave is still in the foundry, unless there's some idiotic plot involving someone in the know purchasing Verdant as a cover, which...yeah, don't do that, show.

 

The EPs said at the end of last season that Oliver's money troubles were going to be an issue for Team Arrow this year because he wouldn't be able to pay them, but they were either lying out of their asses or they changed their minds because they realized how utterly stupid and improbable Oliver being totally broke was.

Edited by apinknightmare
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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

Yeah, there's so much other stuff going on this season that "broke Oliver" is an unnecessary storyline. If nothing else, I'm sure Moira had a pretty fantastic life insurance policy, right? Surely, Oliver can live off that for a while until he inevitably gets QC back.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Yeah, I wondered the same thing awhile back about a dream situation--specifically because of the "literally sees a vision." If this is the ep with Vertigo, it's definitely possible that he'd get dosed and see some crazy stuff. Like, I'm starting to believe that Felicity bloody on the table is not real. So maybe there is an explosion, and he gets dosed, and his vision is of the fallout? Like Felicity dies, Oliver goes nuts and kills a bunch of people, Diggle ends up hurt/dead somehow too.

 

What I don't get is why he'd come out of that daze and think, "Well, that seems awfully accurate--better go push Dig and Felicity away to protect them!"

 

Also, didn't EBR say during the interview with IGN during CC that Felicity was lying dead on that table? I think she followed it up with a quick, "Or is she?" Some people speculated that she flatlined, but again, I HAVE to believe if she was seriously injured, Oliver would've taken her to an actual hospital. So maybe it is a hallucination/vision of her being dead.

 

But like @Carrie Ann wrote, I don't know what would make him come out of that and think they shouldn't be together - she's as at risk working with Arrow as she is dating Oliver Queen. Unless, like we speculated, Oliver uses this as a (temporary) reason to push both Diggle and Felicity out of his life both as Oliver and Arrow. Although it seems too soon in the season to do that? And trying to figure this out is making my brain hurt, especially since whatever I come up with will wind up being pitifully wrong.

Edited by apinknightmare
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Yeah, I've been wondering about Felicity looking dead in that clip too. I'm now wondering whether it'll be one of those episodes where the audience doesn't know that it's all in the character's head until the PSYCH! moment when we learn it's all a halluciation... I'm not a fan of the style.

 

And also, ITA about having no clue what would make Oliver decide to shut down completely after a scary nightmare. Something real has got to happen, right?

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Yeah, I've been wondering about Felicity looking dead in that clip too. I'm now wondering whether it'll be one of those episodes where the audience doesn't know that it's all in the character's head until the PSYCH! moment when we learn it's all a halluciation... I'm not a fan of the style.

 

And also, ITA about having no clue what would make Oliver decide to shut down completely after a scary nightmare. Something real has got to happen, right?

 

I would think that since they already got us once on a PSYCH! moment that they probably would be pretty careful about doing it again, especially where Oliver and Felicity are concerned. If it is a hallucination, I'm guessing it'd be a pretty small part of the ep, so it'd be easy for us to tell what was real and what wasn't. Like, Oliver would wake up with Felicity standing over him, and she'd say something like, "Are you okay? You've been out since..." so we have a clear line of demarcation or whatever.

 

Can we just have this episode now? I figuratively cannot wait any longer.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

@apinknightmare -- I sure hope you're right. It always works better for me [and my stress levels] when I know the story is going inside someone's head from the start. Hee.

 

Plus, now that I think about it, if too much of the events happen in Oliver's head, the "raw discussion" between him and Felicity lose some of its meaningfulness simply because she doesn't have all the knowledge. Okay, I've talked myself out of the doom and gloom, THANK YOU.

Edited by dancingnancy
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

@apinknightmare -- I sure hope you're right. It always works better for me [and my stress levels] when I know the story is going inside someone's head from the start. Hee.

 

Plus, now that I think about it, if too much of the events happen in Oliver's head, the "raw discussion" between him and Felicity lose some of its meaningfulness simply because she doesn't have all the knowledge. Okay, I've talked myself out of the doom and gloom, THANK YOU.

 

I think their "raw discussion" and declarations or whatever will be real. God help these EPs if they oversold that part of it and it winds up being part of a hallucination.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I definitely think it'll be real too, I just meant -- if Oliver is reacting to a crap load of stuff that only happened in his head, while Felicity is reacting to the real events, then the conversation is terribly balanced.

 

Also, since the EPs have been going out of their way to say the fake-out from the finale wasn't fake at all, I'm thinking there has to be a lot of honesty and straightforwardness this time around for it to work.

Edited by dancingnancy
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poetgirl925

poetgirl925

I think their "raw discussion" and declarations or whatever will be real. God help these EPs if they oversold that part of it and it winds up being part of a hallucination.

I'm going to assume they're being genuine about the discussions and declarations. I got the impression they were a little surprised that the finale wasn't clear and there were so many people questioning the fakeout. At this point I have no idea what to expect about how that date ends and what happens next. I'm glad I'm not the only one wondering why Felicity wasn't at the hospital though. I've been thinking about that for a couple of days and can't make sense of why Oliver would take her back to the lair.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

I'm glad I'm not the only one wondering why Felicity wasn't at the hospital though. I've been thinking about that for a couple of days and can't make sense of why Oliver would take her back to the lair.

 

I saw something about the Glades doctor who'd helped Arrow in the past appearing in the first ep (the ep is also mentioned on his IMDB page) and I'm wondering if maybe they bring him into the lair? Maybe tranq'd him like Barry or blindfolded him at least? I actually thought before we saw the trailer that Oliver did bring Felicity to the hospital based on the photo SA tweeted with Oliver covered in soot and wearing only an undershirt. That looked like it was in a hospital setting.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

Okay I don't think that Felicity lying on the table is a vision because if you consider the EPs answers, MG says that Oliver starts opening up to Felicity on that date which is something he rarely does. So the date does in fact happen and they do in fact not get around to the main course because something happens. And I'm thinking about this logistically. How did Oliver carry Felicity all the way to his car from the rubble without being seen or tended to? Why did he go to Verdant? Maybe he wasn't thinking straight? IDK I'm trying to find a good reason but am coming up short. 


Also this: "Details on Felicity's mother — including her name and whether she'll appear in flashback or present day — are being kept heavily guarded", sounds incredibly incredibly shady. And no offense to Ms. Ross, but she already kinda looks like a deadbeat vegas mom... 

 

ETA: Wow, that sounded less douchey in my head :/

Edited by wonderwall
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Okay I don't think that Felicity lying on the table is a vision because if you consider the EPs answers, MG says that Oliver starts opening up to Felicity on that date which is something he rarely does. So the date does in fact happen and they do in fact not get around to the main course because something happens. And I'm thinking about this logistically. How did Oliver carry Felicity all the way to his car from the rubble without being seen or tended to? Why did he go to Verdant? Maybe he wasn't thinking straight? IDK I'm trying to find a good reason but am coming up short. 

Also this: "Details on Felicity's mother — including her name and whether she'll appear in flashback or present day — are being kept heavily guarded", sounds incredibly incredibly shady. And no offense to Ms. Ross, but she already kinda looks like a deadbeat vegas mom... 

 

ETA: Wow, that sounded less douchey in my head :/

 

Maybe Felicity gets hurt and does go to the hospital (that's why the Glades doctor is around?), but that particular vision of her isn't real? I mean, even not knowing the details I don't understand why they wouldn't take her to a hospital, because she was out with Oliver on personal business - there's no reason for her not to get legit medical attention unless somehow the hospitals have been compromised.

 

As for Oliver having "visions," I thought this version of Vertigo was supposed to have something to do with willpower? Unless that was a plant to throw people off or they changed it once they started writing the eps. Or I guess it could be a side-effect.

Edited by apinknightmare
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

So, I went back last night and watched clips of J.R. Ramirez in Emily Owens.  He was...OK...didn't have a whole lot of chemistry with the lady that he was supposed to have had an affair with two years prior (and he was trying to be all flirty and get back together with her, I think).  He came off as kind of stiff, but he was only in three episodes.  He has also been associated with some truly awful looking stuff.  I tried to watch the two minute trailer for the movie The Coalition.  It was terrible...couldn't even make it the entire way through.  Consider yourselves warned in case you try to watch that video online now.  Here's some clips of him in Hacienda Heights (which also looks terribly cheesy - I think that maybe it was a soap opera or something?).  J.R. Ramirez first appears (shirtless) around 1:05 and there are clips of him throughout the rest of the video.  Judge for yourself!
 

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

I think I remember her from NYPD Blue...Sipowitz's wife?

 

ETA: Nope Charlotte Ross was the chick from the Soaps...I was thinking of Sharon Lawrence.

Nope, you had it right :) Sharon Lawrence played Sipowicz's first wife, and Charlotte Ross his second wife.

 

And I couldn't be happier about this casting! I loved her on "Blue". Crossing my fingers so that she fits as well now on Arrow!

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calliope1975

calliope1975

Oh man, I used to watch Charlotte Ross on Days of Our Lives eons ago. And she was recently a cocktail waitress in a horribly bad Nic Cage movie, Drive Angry. So, if they're going for rode hard, put up wet, hardened Vegas girl, um, I think she'll do alright. I'm looking forward to this story line. 

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poetgirl925

poetgirl925

I saw something about the Glades doctor who'd helped Arrow in the past appearing in the first ep (the ep is also mentioned on his IMDB page) and I'm wondering if maybe they bring him into the lair? Maybe tranq'd him like Barry or blindfolded him at least? I actually thought before we saw the trailer that Oliver did bring Felicity to the hospital based on the photo SA tweeted with Oliver covered in soot and wearing only an undershirt. That looked like it was in a hospital setting.

Oh, I remember that picture and it could have been at a hospital. Having a team doctor on call like Emil's role on Smallville would make sense, too. I know Diggle has some medic training but it seems like they've stretched that to its limits at this point. Speculating is fun but I can't believe we have to wait another two months for answers lol.

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Orion

Orion

I can go back and forth with it being a nightmare/hallucination.

 

If Oliver is dosed at dinner and hallucinates Felicity injured and in the lair that makes sense because if a restaurant is bombed he wouldn't need to take her back to the Arrow Cave to give her medical attention, the reason they handle the their medical care in the lair is because hospitals are required to report gun shot injuries, medical help at the scene would expect to handle people injured in the explosion no need for secrecy. They could also go further with it and Felicity actually dies in Oliver's hallucination. There is a scene in the trailer where Oliver is bathed in blue light and his eyes/reaction to Vertigo talking to him look a slightly drugged.

 

The problem beyond that is that when Oliver wakes up it removes all the tension. Yes, a vision of Felicity dying would be scary for him, but in the end, it is just a dream. She's safe, Oliver can go back to believing he and Diggle can protect her. It removes a lot of the tension between Vertigo and Oliver too. There is no reason for Oliver to flip out at Vertigo if it is only a dream. Pissed he got dosed and pissed he had to dream about Felicity being injured wouldn't equal the same about of emotional pain. Also, I can't really see a drug induced hallucination forcing them to have a "raw" discussion.

 

I'm leaning more toward dinner gets interrupted by Diggle or Roy calling about Arrow business and they have to leave to go back to Verdant. An explosion happens when they are close enough to the lair that Oliver brings her there. We know that Oliver's brain tends to short circuit when someone he cares about is hurt (collapsing after Moira and Shado die) He hands her care over to Diggle who takes her to the hospital while Oliver goes off to kill the person responsible. There is just a lot more juicy plot to be had if her injuries are real.  I'm thinking the explosion is the first shots fired between Vertigo and the Arrow and the will power drug will be played out in another episode or in a different part of the episode when Oliver goes to get him and that's when Oliver sees a vision of himself that scares the shit out of him.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

lol I had to look up who Raisa as.

How can you forget Raisa? i have to admit i seriously teared up in the pilot when she welcomed Oliver back, you could tell how much this woman meant to him.

Edited by foreverevolving
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I saw something about the Glades doctor who'd helped Arrow in the past appearing in the first ep (the ep is also mentioned on his IMDB page) and I'm wondering if maybe they bring him into the lair? Maybe tranq'd him like Barry or blindfolded him at least? I actually thought before we saw the trailer that Oliver did bring Felicity to the hospital based on the photo SA tweeted with Oliver covered in soot and wearing only an undershirt. That looked like it was in a hospital setting.

 

 

I'm 99% sure that was the makeup room - there are wigs in the background. :)

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Angel12d

Angel12d

Just to add my thoughts, I definitely think everything happening in 301 is real. After so many people were upset about the 'fake-out' of the love confession in the season finale, I think they'll want to make very clear where O/F's feelings lie. I'm pretty sure there will be no doubt and a hallucination would only serve as doubt. I think they want to avoid that. 

 

And the reason why I think Felicity is on the med table in the foundry and not in hospital is probably because Oliver is so shocked/upset that he just took her to a place of safety almost as if he was on autopilot. It's likely she'll end up in hospital later anyway, esp with a head injury like that. It looks nasty! 

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MsSchadenfreude

MsSchadenfreude

(edited)

 

 

Charlotte Ross cast as Felicitys mom.

http://www.tvguide.c...ss-1085088.aspx

 

I only know Charlotte Ross from when she played Eve Donavan, former prostitute, party girl and singer on Days of our Lives, so she could totally play a Vegas cocktail waitress.  (and if she is anything like her old character, I got five bucks that says she makes a pass at Oliver if she ever shows up in Starling City). I like this casting news.

Edited by MsSchadenfreude
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

I only know Charlotte Ross from when she played Eve Donavan, former prostitute, party girl and singer on Days of our Lives, so she could totally play a Vegas cocktail waitress.  (and if she is anything like her old character, I got five bucks that says she makes a pass at Oliver if she ever shows up in Starling City). I like this casting news.

 

You read my mind.  I was totally thinking that she will make a play for Oliver if she shows up in present-day instead of flashbacks!  That'll be awkward, for sure.

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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Password

Password

You read my mind.  I was totally thinking that she will make a play for Oliver if she shows up in present-day instead of flashbacks!  That'll be awkward, for sure.

That would be funny. Pre island Oliver would've loved it.

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doesntworkonwood

doesntworkonwood

I'm loving Mama Smoak, I've not seen her in anything but she looks like she could do a really good job! I really do hope she makes a pass at Oliver (if she's in the present time), because that would be hilarious. I'm really looking forward to seeing the Smoak women. Of course we don't know much about her yet, so we don't know if we'll get a lot of funny banter, or a lot of tension. Either way, I'm looking forward to it :D

 

Also, I have to say I'm quite disappointed with the lack of 'broke Oliver.' Even though that story line would have made no sense, I was really looking forward to watching Oliver learning to iron and wash his own clothes. It would have been really funny.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

I'm 99% sure that was the makeup room - there are wigs in the background. :)

 

HAHAHAHA! I was like, "What wigs?!" The photo I saw apparently was cropped and all I could see were the white lockers behind SA, which made me think hospital :) Now I'm wondering if we're going to see Oliver in his undershirt (because that looked hot! ... in more ways than one) or if SA was still being dressed.

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Angel12d

Angel12d

That's really good casting for Felicity's mom! I can totally see her as a cocktail waitress in Vegas. I'm interested to see how Felicity was able to build computers at age 7 when her mom was a waitress. I need the details to add up so bad! I'm excited!!!

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blixie

blixie

(edited)

 

 

Charlotte Ross cast as Felicitys mom.

http://www.tvguide.c...ss-1085088.aspx

 

Oh man I LOVE Eve Donovan, this must be why she declined the offer from Days to return! And  yes she is totally perfect as a Vegas hard candy cocktail waitress, Eve was a teenage hooker who's greatest love was her pimp Nick.

 

 

I don't know what would make him come out of that and think they shouldn't be together - she's as at risk working with Arrow as she is dating Oliver Queen.

Yeah him saying I can't date you but I can still work with you would just be completely dumb, she'd still be in danger, and his feelings for her would have zero chances of abating even a little, thus still be a trigger for whatever version of himself he sees that he hates.

Oliver isolating himself from Team Arrow (Diggle/Felicity) because he *literally* made it up in his head (especially if it is drug induced) might actually piss me off the most of all possible scenarios of him pushing them away. So I hope his reservations about his relationships is at least based on an actual instance of danger and specific example of his behavioral responses to that danger to Felicity. I think when it comes to Man Pain/Angst I might be just too old for that shit anymore. I may just be rooting for Ray during all S3.

Edited by blixie
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Just to add my thoughts, I definitely think everything happening in 301 is real. After so many people were upset about the 'fake-out' of the love confession in the season finale, I think they'll want to make very clear where O/F's feelings lie. I'm pretty sure there will be no doubt and a hallucination would only serve as doubt. I think they want to avoid that. 

 

And the reason why I think Felicity is on the med table in the foundry and not in hospital is probably because Oliver is so shocked/upset that he just took her to a place of safety almost as if he was on autopilot. It's likely she'll end up in hospital later anyway, esp with a head injury like that. It looks nasty! 

 

I  keep forgetting that SA said in some recent interview (I'd have to look for it) that whatever that version or vision (I can't tell which he says) of himself that he sees that scares the shit out of him causes a rift between him and Diggle, so I'm guessing Felicity doesn't have anything to do with it.

 

I just really want a plausible explanation as to why she looks like that and isn't in a hospital, haha.

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DrSpaceman10

DrSpaceman10

(edited)

I'm pretty sure that's from 3x01, that's the roof/backdrop from the first look clip. I don't think Caity ever went back to Vancouver after Comic-Con, per the Canadagraphs guy. I hope they explain why she keeps coming/going from the LOA...

Edited by drspaceman10
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