Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Sakura12]

Team Arrow including Sara already know about Roy killing two cops. So she wouldn't be giving them any new information. Plus her investigating it could get Roy in trouble. 

[wonderwall]

Even the EPs said that Laurel was just a Lawyer with a Jacket. They specifically didn't state that she was a Lawyer with a jacket on a mission or with any motivation. So I think that they understand that Laurel doesn't have that motivation just yet and maybe they'll introduce it this season? Hopefully they just don't just jump to her becoming BC without the proper motivation. 

Edited July 31, 2014 by wonderwall

[statsgirl]

 

There is no reason, really, to fill in more of the gaps in Sara's post-Gambit life unless she is going to remain BC.  Keeping her on the show, giving us more of her background, will only enhance her standing & credibility as BC.  At the same time, whatever Laurel does will show her as a far less viable BC option.

 

I truly hope her 'trying to walk' the path her sister took means that she takes her frustrations with an oft unfair justice system and becomes a hero who helps balance things out.  Maybe that hero is Manhunter, maybe it's someone else.  But there's no way I woiuld ever buy her as Black Canary.

 

One reason to keep filling in Sara's back story is because it makes a good story, unlike Laurel's addiction or bitterness.  Sara's got adventure, masked assassins and lots of physical action, things to keep both male and female audiences interested. Laurel's got bitterness.  Which would you rather write?

 

I'd like to think that Laurel wants to follow in Sara's path of protecting the weak any way she needs to.  But I think it just means working out at the gym more. Who knows, maybe she's finally got tired of being kidnapped and damseled all the time?

 

 

I watched the promo again.  In it Moira tells Malcolm that Ra's was very happy to learn that he was alive because he's looking forward to killing Malcolm himself. I don't think he'll send Sara after him to do the job instead.

 

Marc Guggenheim started off the Examiner interview saying

We're trying to take some of the lessons we learned in season 2 and apply them to some of the cooler aspects in season 1

 

He's referring to the over-arching storyline of s1 with the mystery of The List, but I wonder if they learned anything from the mess that was mid s2.

 

I found it interesting that they balance the present day with the flashbacks, that as the present day gets lighter in Oliver's journey, the flashbacks get darker. I don't know about anyone else but last season, with the darkness of the present, especially Slade, and the darkness of the flashbacks, I wasn't enjoying a number of the episodes much.

 

He's proud of the racial diversity on the show and the gender diversity.  I've been wondering why, when there are two gay actors and a gay EP, it's two of the women  and none of the men who are gay or bi.

Edited July 31, 2014 by statsgirl

[Sakura12]

That's the main reason I don't think they'll kill off Nyssa and later on Sara. They wouldn't want to be killing off their only 2 queer characters. 

 

I have no idea why they spent 20 episodes showing us how badass Sara is (with 5 more to go) while they spent 46 episodes showing us weak Laurel is. Her constantly being kidnapped with someone else having to save her all the time does not help sell her as a badass. Since Sara has essentially been prisoner since the Gambit sank and found a way to become stronger and save herself. A Russian mobster called her scary, Slade never thought of her as weak, Ivo taught her everything he knows and she became an assassin. 

Edited July 31, 2014 by Sakura12

[writersblock51]

 

He's proud of the racial diversity on the show and the gender diversity.  I've been wondering why, when there are two gay actors and a gay EP, it's two of the women  and none of the men who are gay or bi.

 

I'll go out on a purely amature-pop-psych limb here and say that the reason could be that a majority of the male viewers would flip the hell out if any male characters were gay.  Lesbians seem to be far more popular among the male comic book crowd I've witnessed in person & on line than gay men.

 

 

One reason to keep filling in Sara's back story is because it makes a good story, unlike Laurel's addiction or bitterness.  Sara's got adventure, masked assassins and lots of physical action, things to keep both male and female audiences interested. Laurel's got bitterness.  Which would you rather write?

 

I know which one I'd not only rather write but also which I'd rather watch.  Excellent point but it also highlights the distinct possibility that the show's writers & producers enjoy Sara's character (in her many time frames) more than Laurel's.  I think that's the case and that it translates to what we see. 

[FAU]

 

One reason to keep filling in Sara's back story is because it makes a good story, unlike Laurel's addiction or bitterness.  Sara's got adventure, masked assassins and lots of physical action, things to keep both male and female audiences interested. Laurel's got bitterness.  Which would you rather write?

 

I'd like to think that Laurel wants to follow in Sara's path of protecting the weak any way she needs to.  But I think it just means working out at the gym more. Who knows, maybe she's finally got tired of being kidnapped and damseled all the time?

 

All the more reason it doesn't make much sense with the way they're writing her character, it lacks believeability and if they plan on trying to force her into the role, it'll only be worse from there.

 

 

Even the EPs said that Laurel was just a Lawyer with a Jacket. They specifically didn't state that she was a Lawyer with a jacket on a mission or with a motivation. So I think that they understand that Laurel doesn't have that motivation just yet and maybe they'll introduce it this season? Hopefully they just don't just jump to her becoming BC without the proper motivation.

 

They also said that she had a journey/crucible and what we got was a poorly conceived addiction storyline that got brushed off in the end and they ended up inserting her into the Team Arrow scenes because they just couldn't things to work.

[ban1o]

doesn't gender diversity usually just refer to diversity between male/females. I don't think it usually refers to sexual orientation, but I'm pretty dumb so... 

[KirkB]

I'm curious to see Malcolm's story. In the comics (given his link to the LoA) a Lazarus Pit would be the obvious explanation for how he survived or came back from what Oliver did to him at the end of the first season. I don't know if the show intends to go that route or not (though Mirakuru suggests they might) but if the pits DO exist in the show's continuity I would like to know how Malcolm could have used one without Ra's finding out about it. He kept them pretty well guarded, and mercenaries or not you generally couldn't pay the League to look the other way since they were more afraid of Ra's. On the other hand, if Ra's did know about it that would imply he and Malcolm are actually working together, which means he either approved (or ignored or allowed) the Undertaking, and that Malcolm was faking it when he acted threatened by Moira reporting him to Ra's. I suppose there could be some completely alternate explanation for how Malcolm is still around (since I don't think anyone ever has a problem with more Barrowman) but I have a feeling most of this season will be built around the LoA.

[Orion]

They did give her Ted Grant, a  hunky love interest who helps underprivileged children. He's a good-doer too.  (Does anyone remember him from Emily Owens?  Was he the friend of Micah's who had the affair with the chief surgeon and left?

 

I watched Emily Owens and I remember him not being a very memorable character. He had the affair with the chief surgeon - they broke up, before the show started and they brought him in to try to develop tension between  him, the Chief Surgeon and her husband. I remember him being pretty... bland. Angry and snarky at times but the romantic scenes with her and him were just flat. To be fair the other two men, Micah and Wil had charm oozing out of them so maybe it was just in comparison to them he was flat.  Do two characters that have negative chemistry create positive chemistry together?

Edited July 31, 2014 by Orion

[Sakura12]

Didn't the EP's say they don't care to come up for a reason Malcolm survived? That he just did. 

[ban1o]

I'm curious to see Malcolm's story. In the comics (given his link to the LoA) a Lazarus Pit would be the obvious explanation for how he survived or came back from what Oliver did to him at the end of the first season. I don't know if the show intends to go that route or not (though Mirakuru suggests they might) but if the pits DO exist in the show's continuity I would like to know how Malcolm could have used one without Ra's finding out about it. He kept them pretty well guarded, and mercenaries or not you generally couldn't pay the League to look the other way since they were more afraid of Ra's. On the other hand, if Ra's did know about it that would imply he and Malcolm are actually working together, which means he either approved (or ignored or allowed) the Undertaking, and that Malcolm was faking it when he acted threatened by Moira reporting him to Ra's. I suppose there could be some completely alternate explanation for how Malcolm is still around (since I don't think anyone ever has a problem with more Barrowman) but I have a feeling most of this season will be built around the LoA.

don't put this to print but in an interview at SDCC, John Barrowman explained how it happened.  He he was able to slow down his vital organs so that he appeared dead. It's kind of like a Houdini trick. This is the interview. 

 

http://www.seat42f.com/comic-con-interviews-arrow.html

[Angel12d]

Do you think it possible that Sara might die this season? I can't think of any other reason why they haven't included her as a regular, after being in 20/23 episodes last season, but they included John Barrowman as a regular. 

 

I think she might because I can't see any other motivation for Laurel to become BC. Right now it feels shoehorned and forced and I can't make sense of it. Sara's death would give her motivation for revenge which could eventually turn into justice.

[Morrigan2575]

Didn't the EP's say they don't care to come up for a reason Malcolm survived? That he just did. 

Yeah, they said that 207 was enough of an explanation, they don't plan on actually explaining how Merlyn survived or faked his death and disappeared.

 

I think she might because I can't see any other motivation for Laurel to become BC. Right now it feels shoehorned and forced and I can't make sense of it. Sara's death would give her motivation for revenge which could eventually turn into justice.

 

And yet they had that exact same set up with Tommy's death at the end of S1 and didn't go there so why would/should they go there with Sara?  Instead they brought in Sara as The Canary, gave her 20+ episodes of backstory and tied her directly to the Big Bad of S3 just to sacrifice her character for Laurel?  

Edited July 31, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[KirkB]

That's probably Barrowman offering up an explanation because he knew the EP's weren't going to. It strikes me as lazy writing to have a character return from the dead (or apparent dead) and not want to be bothered to explain it. I mean, if he's a minor character or they don't feel it's that important, at least a throwaway line "I have friends with drugs/tech" or even just a smirk and "magic!" would suffice in a comic book story. Here I wonder if they're going it because they think people are just happy to have Malcolm back and won't care 'how' (because we never do) or they want to create/prolong the mystery.

Edited July 31, 2014 by KirkB

[Velocity23]

 

 

I wrapped episode 48 of Arrow last night. On a scale of 1 - 10, 1 being easy (which never happens) and 10 being incredibly difficult, I'd give this one a 9. Tough subject matter.

On the plus side, working with Wendey Stanzler - our director - is always such a pleasure. She has a calm about her that's infectious.

Now we're onto a prime number episode - yes, I just called it that - and I have a 4 day weekend coming up. 3.5 if you want to be technical. This one should be much easier. Like 8.7 easy.

Stephen posted this on his facebook. I am scared now!

[hogwash]

 

Didn't the EP's say they don't care to come up for a reason Malcolm survived? That he just did.

I don't think they could come up with anything better "uh, it was just a flesh wound/Lazarus Pit made it better." I do want the other parts of Malcolm's story. Maybe he'll tell it to Thea as part of her "join to the dark side" training. I don't want want more Lazarus Pit stuff though cause it feels too much Mirakuru (which I hated. It sucked). They both have too much power and I could see the show not trying to fit within the universe halfway through and just let it do whatever they or the plot needs it to do (similar to Mirakuru). 

 

Are we really getting Thea flashbacks?! I hope they include lots of Moira and archery. Maybe a little Malcolm Merlyn being a loony weirdo. The latest casting news we've gotten seems interesting but I remember how I excited I was to see how the show would use Summer Glau.....Anyway, I'm trying not to get too excited about s03 cause my residual bitterness from how absolutely lazy s02 handled Blood, Moira, Shado, Slade, Isabel, Roy (the biggest one! They actually KNEW he was coming back!), Mirakuru, etc. I could forgive Blood/Isabel (not Deathstroke cause if you name the dude Slade Wilson in s01, you should have a better plan for the whole Deathstroke thing than that). But it was just too many dropped and barely explored threads. But I'm in if Thea/Willa Holland (along with Felicity/Diggle) gets something good with great payoff. 

[ban1o]

Are we really getting Thea flashbacks?! I hope they include lots of Moira and archery. Maybe a little Malcolm Merlyn being a loony weirdo. 

The Thea flashbacks are just a flashback of the conversation in the limo and maybe some training. Their not doing flashbacks from like before Oliver went missing or anything.

Edited July 31, 2014 by ban1o

[Velocity23]

Ok confused where to put this but can i just say i love Stephen Amell:

 

[wonderwall]

Stephen Amell is just a class act. 'Nuff said. 

[HighwayFlower]

Stephen posted this on his facebook. I am scared now!

I'm concerned too. Other boards are restarting the Sara death clock.

[ban1o]

Stephen posted this on his facebook. I am scared now!

Sorry, I'm really dumb, but why are you scared lol? Is it because he said the episode had a tough subject matter? Do you think someone's going to die? 

Edited July 31, 2014 by ban1o

[wonderwall]

If Amell had a difficult time with something it usually leads to heartbreak... and not of the character, of the audience. I may as well have a tissue box handy for the second episode :p

[HighwayFlower]

Sorry, I'm really dumb, but why are you scared lol? Is it because he said the episode had a tough subject matter? Do you think someone's going to die?

It's the episode called Sara, so combine the 2 and it's worrisome.

[Velocity23]

I saw many people think Sin is gonna die x.x 

[Orion]

Colton said in an interview that something horrible happens that brings Sara and Roy closer together. He also said he has read scripts up to 3X03. Something tragic happening in 3X02 makes sense in that timeline. Heads up Sin!

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm concerned too. Other boards are restarting the Sara death clock.

 

Episode 48 would be the second episode of season 3, is that right?  Sara is supposed to be in at least five episodes this season, so I wouldn't worry too much.  I agree with @Orion.  I think that the EPs are keeping Sara around this season so that she can step in if things go terribly wrong with Laurel.

 

Edit: However, I do think that it's possible that something bad is going to happen to Sin.

Edited July 31, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[ban1o]

It's the episode called Sara, so combine the 2 and it's worrisome.

I doubt Sara will die. Haynes said in an interview that Sara will gradually show a darker side in season 3 and that something happens that brings them together. Colton gives away too much in his interviews, but he's usually right. lol She wouldn't die that early if she was going to "gradually" show a darker side and how can Roy and Sara be brought together if she dies? Also what about all that stuff the producers said about story-lines for Sara this season and her appearing in 5 episodes?  Sure they could be lying, but I doubt it. It could be Sin though. 

Edited July 31, 2014 by ban1o

[SmallScreenDiva]

David Ramsey posted something on Twitter about SA delivering a "heart-wrenching peformance" and I think they were still shooting Episode 2 (or 48 if you count the whole run). And Stephen replied "Couldn't do it without my scene partner." So I'm guessing from that it has something to do with Diggle. But then again, there could be several things going on in that episode that could fall under "heart-wrenching." The fallout from whatever happens to Felicity or whatever conversation they had in Episode 1 would probably bleed into Ep 2.

[ban1o]

Uggh now I'm worried too. What horrible thing could possibly happen in episode 2? Hopefully it's not a death of a character but that seems likely. 

Edited July 31, 2014 by ban1o

[Orion]

I doubt Sara will die. Haynes said in an interview that Sara will gradually show a darker side in season 3 and that something happens that brings them together. Colton gives away too much in his interviews, but he's usually right. lol She wouldn't die that early if she was going to "gradually" show a darker side and how can Roy and Sara be brought together if she dies? Also what about all that stuff the producers said about story-lines for Sara this season and her appearing in 5 episodes?  Sure they could be lying, but I doubt it. It could be Sin though. 

 

They could kill Sara early in the season and the 5 episodes the EPs are referring to she would be in flash backs only. I just think Sara is here for the long haul, at least in the background, for contingency plans.

[catrox14]

I wonder if it has to do with Lyla and Diggle's unborn child.

[Angel12d]

And yet they had that exact same set up with Tommy's death at the end of S1 and didn't go there so why would/should they go there with Sara?  Instead they brought in Sara as The Canary, gave her 20+ episodes of backstory and tied her directly to the Big Bad of S3 just to sacrifice her character for Laurel?  

 

I know. She easily had the motivation there. Count me in as one of those confused as to why they had her fall into addiction instead. I maybe could have got on board with Laurel as BC if she had started her journey there - with reason and motivation and maybe a little hate fuelling both. But after Sara came in as Canary and had a great backstory, I just don't see how they're going to do it. So I'm concerned too. That was my point. If they don't kill off Sara, nothing is going to convince me about Laurel being BC. I just don't get it. 

[ban1o]

I wonder if it has to do with Lyla and Diggle's unborn child.

I was actually just thinking that. Maybe something happens to Lyla and she loses the baby?  

[writersblock51]

I think a Sin Countdown Death Clock is more approrpiate, I don't think Sara will be killed off soon. 

 

And Stephen Amell continues to impress the hell out of me with his positive attitude about the show, his part in in & the greater CW/DC U and tv universe and also the fans who support him.  Even if I stopped watching the show, I'd still keep occasional track of him because he's a hard working, funnny and classy actor who deserves very good things to happen to him. 

 

ETA: I don't think Lyla loses the baby - I've seen a few mentions about she and Diggle's daughter.

Edited July 31, 2014 by writersblock51

[BkWurm1]

I think they'd keep Daddy Diggle around longer so he can contrast or teach Oliver when his kid is revealed so I think baby girl Diggle should be ok.  Same for Lyla just cause they need someone to be watching the baby.

 

I wonder if the whole team is going to break up.  Diggle is kicked out and maybe Felicity too. 

[Starfish35]

I suppose theoretically they could do flashbacks with Sara even if they killed her off - they could be Laurel or Nyssa or even Ra's flashbacks. But it kind of seems like that'd be hard to weave in. While my knee jerk response is always to fear for Sara, I think she's safe for awhile.

[catrox14]

I was actually just thinking that. Maybe something happens to Lyla and she loses the baby?  

I'm thinking maybe a mission goes horribly wrong and Oliver ends up killing Lyla?

[ban1o]

I'm thinking maybe a mission goes horribly wrong and Oliver ends up killing Lyla?

ooh that's pretty dark. I can't see Oliver actually killing Lyla. But it's possible. 

[catrox14]

ooh that's pretty dark. I can't see Oliver actually killing Lyla. But it's possible. 

Not on purpose.  Maybe she gets caught in the crossfire or something like that. 

[ban1o]

Not on purpose.  Maybe she gets caught in the crossfire or something like that. 

oh yeah I know you mean not on purpose, I still can't see the show doing that even by accident. How would Diggle ever forgive Oliver? 

Edited July 31, 2014 by ban1o

[FurryFury]

Way too early for Lyla,  although killing her later is totally something the show could do.

 

Yeah, I kinda think Sin's going to bite it, which would give Sara additional angst (as if she needs any!) and motivation... Would fit well with her going even darker and a reason to keep her off the show for a time being (she could reaffirm her willingness to work with LoA to get revenge or something). Pure spec, of course, but we do know Bex's back for 3x02 and nothing more, right?

Edited July 31, 2014 by FurryFury

[Angel12d]

I think it's looking likely that something happens to Sin because she's the only connection between Sara and Roy I can think of. Roy might feel guilty for pulling her into his mess and Sara will feel guilty for not being able to protect her when she promised her father she would. 

[Morrigan2575]

Can she even die if she's not in the episode?  I mean we've never heard anything from Bex about being back in Van have we?  

Edited July 31, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[wonderwall]

IDK what Sin has to do with Oliver and Diggle's emotional scene? I don't even think they know her... Not really. 

 

UNLESS. Something happens to Sin and she dies, Sara blames Oliver, Oliver feels terrible, Sara goes down a darker path?

Edited July 31, 2014 by wonderwall

[catrox14]

oh yeah I know you mean not on purpose, I still can't see the show doing that even by accident. How would Diggle ever forgive Oliver? 

Maybe that is part of the emotional scene that David and Stephen are tweeting about?

[Sakura12]

I'm thinking something almost happens to Dig and that's their emotional scene. We saw the beginning of Oliver tying to bench him in 3x01 because he's going to be a father so I can see Dig getting hurt while out with Oliver would make them revisit that conversation in 3.02. Oliver would want Dig to be around to see his baby being born and growing up. That would hit close to home to Amell being he is a father. 

 

As for Roy and Sara's "something terrible" it would have to be Sin, she's what connects the two of them. Maybe something happens to the place they both know Sin was at, then we see the aftermath in 3.03 when Bex gets to Vancouver?

Edited July 31, 2014 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

Is Bex going to Vancouver?  Have we heard anything at all about Bex being in an episode, other than last season when she said she would hopefully be back in S3?  Just curious.

 

As for Sara, I really cannot deal with another year of she's going to die, she has to die, there's no other way for Laurel to become BC unless Sara DIESSSSSSSS!!!! 

 

It seriously destroyed a lot of my S2 Arrow love and I don't think i can do it again and not resent the show.

[catrox14]

 

IDK what Sin has to do with Oliver and Diggle's emotional scene? I don't even think they know her... Not really.

 

I'm referring to the emotional scene between Diggle and Oliver.

[ban1o]

I'm thinking something almost happens to Dig and that's their emotional scene. We saw the beginning of Oliver tying to bench him in 3x01 because he's going to be a father so I can see Dig getting hurt while out with Oliver would make them revisit that conversation in 3.02. Oliver would want Dig to be around to see his baby being born and growing up. That would hit close to home to Amell being he is a father. 

 

Yeah I think you're right. Diggle and Oliver don't know Sin so I really doubt it could be something involving her. But it probably has to do with Diggle and being there for your children and such. 

Edited July 31, 2014 by ban1o

[Orion]

I'll add my guess. In the premiere something happens that makes Oliver realize he can't be in a personal relationship with Felicity but she's still his teammate. In episode 3x02 something tragic happens to Sin and Oliver sees how Sara takes loosing a friend and he further freaks out. Oliver decides that he can't go through that with Diggle and Felicity and kicks them both off Team Arrow. Diggle and Oliver fight over it and the fight they have is for the soul of Team Arrow.  Roy is a loner so Oliver will want to team up with just him. Doesn't Felicity go to Flash in the third episode? Getting confused with all the spoilers we've gotten.