S12.E05: Guess Who's Coming To Dinner

[Kagomei]

I was on Reddit and found this post interesting (you can read the full sory here):

 

 

Mortehl 
This is a very personal story. I've shared it before since the Derek death thing. I don't have the strength to fully lay it out, so consider this the cliffnotes version. If you want the full story, look in my user comments for it.
I received a call exactly like Meredith did on a day that I had a stupid argument. I went through the day like she did with the wondering and then had the police show up.
In my case there wasn't a mistake made, it was simply too freaking late, but that doesn't change how I felt-- feel about the doctor who told me the bad news. There were a whole team of doctors involved including the doctor who was also my general practitioner at the time. The doctor who was a family friend for years, whom I trusted since I became an adult to take care of me.
I can't speak to him any more despite how well he took care of her and how well he took care of me. Because for the rest of my life he's the one who told me she was dead.
What you're seeing is a VERY accurate depiction of human emotion... I think its a bit contrived that she would show up at Meredith's house, be dating Callie, et cetera and so forth, but the emotion is real enough that it brought back flashbacks to me that I've been burying in humor since Thursday.
Death does not make you rational and it does not make you wrong either.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Kagomei

[mythoughtis]

I must be in the minority.  I don't like Meredith.  Ellen is fine, I just don't like the character.  The world is required to circle around Meredith.  She was at that hospital for hours, was supposedly just a few miles from her home/GreySloane, while waiting for Derek to die. Amelia is living with them, is a fantastic neurosurgeon, is Dereks' sister, his only sibling in the area.... but Meredith can't be bothered to call her to say goodbye to Derek?  Then she never explains to her what happened that night?  Amelia has to wait a year and a half and try to get an explanation from the doctor that randomly shows up at dinner.  How would you like to have Meredith as your dead son or brother's widow, with 2 kids, who can't be bothered to even so much as tell you she's pregnant a third time until months later?  The entire Derek dying evening was unrealistic - that small surburban hospital was not a trauma hospital, why wasn't Derek taken to a trauma hospital. 

Alex is in a relationship, but he (and everyone else in Meredith's circle) is supposed to spend hours every day babysitting Meredith - a woman who can't bring herself to even speak to Jo as other than a servant?

 

Jo tattled on Stephanie for what she thought was a lie, yes, but didn't we see Stephanie lying over and over about 'it's for the chief'?  She rightly thought that Stephanie would have told her something like that over the last 3 years - Jo's been upfront with her childhood to Stephanie. I thought Jo admired Stephanie for her achievements and recognized someone that also worked harder than everyone else, and had become stronger thru her childhood trauma.  Stephanie was the arrogant one for flat out thinking that SHE was so much better at everything than Jo, how dare Jo consider herself Stephanie's equal.

 

Wouldn't you think that if Penny felt that horrible and thought about Derek every day, that the subject of that particular patients death would have come up in a conversation with Callie, since they are fellow doctors?  Don't you think that Callie would have recognized the story and realized it was about Derek?  Don't you think Callie would have already been told by Penny hat she was between assignments because her hospital closed down, and Callie would have deduced the name of said hospital? 

Seems to me that Penny(if we are talking reality) would have never crossed the threshold into that home, demanding the Callie take her home, and discussing it in the car?can

 

April kills me, she left twice for a total of a year, over Jacksons' express objections, and just wants to waltz back in and act like she went to the store for milk?

Edited October 24, 2015 by mythoughtis

[pennben]

 

 

I was on Reddit and found this post interesting (you can read the full sory here):

 

 

 

Ooooffff, that story takes your breath away.  I was more speaking in a 'yeah, I think I get it' way (in that I've never had a spouse die, but have experienced loss).  I'm sorry this person actually got it in such a direct way. 

Edited October 24, 2015 by pennben

[Kagomei]

Ooooffff, that story takes your breath away.  I was more speaking in a 'yeah, I think I get it' way, I'm sorry this person actually got it. 

Yup. I teared up when I first read it.

[Artymouse]

Wow, that story was a gut punch, but really interesting to get that kind of insight into how Meredith's behavior is perceived by someone who knows those emotions firsthand.

As I've said before, I don't like Amelia, and I can't imagine that changing anytime soon. But you know whose reaction would have made for an interesting dynamic at the dinner party: Derek's mom. Tyne Daly did an amazing job in her one appearance, and I can't believe she's never been back. I also loved Neve Campbell and Embeth Davidtz as Lizzie and Nancy, and we've never met the other sister. I don't understand why we have the (in my opinion) most obnoxious sister as the one we have to see every week.

[Guest]

Did anyone feel a certain vibe in that MerAlex scene sitting on the floor in her bedroom with a bottle of tequilla between them?

 

Really none at all.  I think Alex and Meredith are each others person by default just because they are the last two interns.  This episode was weird for me because it seemed to really glaringly point out the shallowness of Meredith's relationships and that despite adding a ton of characters the show is suffering the loss of George, Izzy, and Cristina.  I love Alex, but in this episode, it hit home that the show doesn't know how to function without the Cristina/Mer dynamic and Alex is filling that role.  I'm not really certain that he fits that role for any other reason except that everyone else is gone.

 

I do admit that I briefly wondered whether Mer would mourn forever or if they would cast a love interest (because no one on the show makes sense in that capacity).  I do think if Alex and Meredith sleep together it will be more in the George/Meredith way (with less crying, maybe) and whoever they are with will just have to get over it because they are Alex and Meredith.  I can squint sideways and see a one night stand, probably drunk, where Meredith gets under someone to get over Derek to be able to start to move on.

Edited October 25, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Rae Spellman]

 

She rightly thought that Stephanie would have told her something like that over the last 3 years - Jo's been upfront with her childhood to Stephanie.

 

Not rightly. Stephanie hadn't told Jo. And, she wasn't lying. So Jo incorrectly thought Stephanie would have told her something like that. 

 

Jo shouldn't assume that every friend that she tells about sleeping in her car in high school will reveal their past to her. Some people are less forthcoming. 

 

 

Jo tattled on Stephanie for what she thought was a lie, yes, but didn't we see Stephanie lying over and over about 'it's for the chief'?

 

The overwhelming majority of people lie. Including Jo and her boyfriend. But, I imagine that the number of residents who would "lie" about needing something for the chief would be exponentially greater than the number of people who would lie about their medical history. 

 

When Stephanie mentioned only telling people she trusts last week and quickly went from accepting Jo's apology to giving her a piece of her mind this week, that suggested to me that Stephanie has reservations about Jo that predate the last two episodes. Even without this turn of events, maybe Stephanie and Jo have the type of time limited friendships that people who work together sometimes have only while they have the same employer.

 

 

[Chas411]

When Stephanie mentioned only telling people she trusts last week and quickly went from accepting Jo's apology to giving her a piece of her mind this week, that suggested to me that Stephanie has reservations about Jo that predate the last two episodes. Even without this turn of events, maybe Stephanie and Jo have the type of time limited friendships that people who work together sometimes have only while they have the same employer.

The only impression I got from last weeks episode is that Jo thought they were closer they are and given her remorse, attempts at reaching out and then emotional reaction to Steph forgiving her it's clear that she values the friendship more then Stephanie. I think she viewed Stephanie's childhood as common ground for them to bond over. it was Stephanie who turned it into an insult that it wasn't. Some of her points were on par or Jo needs to stop whining and start being more proactive but other then that it was just an obnoxious speech where Stephanie appeared to think she was a lot better then Jo. If i as part of the audience had seen it then fine maybe but i haven't. I haven't seen Cristina Yang levels of talent. I've seen a very capable resident with a good mentor and respect from other attendings who knows how to work hard and make the best out of an already very good situation.

I know I'm supposed to be on Stephanie's side here but I just found her that she came off as so obnoxious.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Chas411

[PrincessTT]

When Stephanie mentioned only telling people she trusts last week and quickly went from accepting Jo's apology to giving her a piece of her mind this week, that suggested to me that Stephanie has reservations about Jo that predate the last two episodes. Even without this turn of events, maybe Stephanie and Jo have the type of time limited friendships that people who work together sometimes have only while they have the same employer.

 

Stephanie has been on the receiving end of Jo's assumptions and spiteful reactions before... When Jo wrongly assumed that Stephanie had filed the sexual harassment complaint, she hit back by telling Stephanie that Jackson and April were married in an attempt to hurt her. 

 

So I can see why Stephanie might have reservations about having a proper friendship with Jo. And I say all this as someone who does like Jo. 

[SevenStars]

The only impression I got from last weeks episode is that Jo thought they were closer they are and given her remorse, attempts at reaching out and then emotional reaction to Steph forgiving her it's clear that she values the friendship more then Stephanie. I think she viewed Stephanie's childhood as common ground for them to bond over. it was Stephanie who turned it into an insult that it wasn't. Some of her points were on par or Jo needs to stop whining and start being more proactive but other then that it was just an obnoxious speech where Stephanie appeared to think she was a lot better then Jo. If i as part of the audience had seen it then fine maybe but i haven't. I haven't seen Cristina Yang levels of talent. I've seen a very capable resident with a good mentor and respect from other attendings who knows how to work hard and make the best out of an already very good situation.

I know I'm supposed to be on Stephanie's side here but I just found her that she came off as so obnoxious.

But base on Jo's past actions towards Stephanie, I don't understand how she can think they are that close. It's like Jo thinks that it's okay for her to make assumptions about Stephanie, react badly base on those assumptions, ask for forgiveness when she realizes she is wrong and expect Stephanie to be okay with everything and be clsoe enough with her to trust her with things that are deeply personal. That make Jo arrogant in her thinking and belief that Stephanie is stupid enough to trust someone who keeps proving that she always thinks the worst of Stephenie, even when it makes no sense.

Jo is okay with people thinking that her past defined who she is, Stephenie clearly isn't, which is why she keeps it a secret. So I don't understand how Jo could have think she could bond with Stephanie using this angle. As a result Stephenie took it really personally because what she didn't want to happen, Jo was making it happen. I don't think Stephanie needed to go as far as she did in that speech but I don't know what has happened in the past to make her so sensitive about this situation.

Edited October 25, 2015 by SevenStars

[Chas411]

But base on Jo's past actions towards Stephanie, I don't understand how she can think they are that close. It's like Jo thinks that it's okay for her to make assumptions about Stephanie, react badly base on those assumptions, ask for forgiveness when she realizes she is wrong and expect Stephanie to be okay with everything and be clsoe enough with her to trust her with things that are deeply personal. That make Jo arrogant in her thinking and belief that Stephanie is stupid enough to trust someone who keeps proving that she always thinks the worst of Stephenie, even when it makes no sense.

To be fair I don't think Jo thought any of the above. She was shown as genuinely sorry for her actions which she knew were wrong. I don't think she assumes she can treat Stephanie in anyway. If she did she wouldn't have been trying to apologise and salvage a friendship that she feels is important. But i do agree with the above posts that Jo has in the past hurt Srephanie which could be why she's doesn't trust her.

My problem I think is that Stephanie's rant about how brilliant and better she is came out of nowhere. She's not a better doctor or at least I've never seen her to be shown as better or more capable. She has a better attitude then Jo and the attendings prefer her for it but I haven't seen anything to warrant her a cut above Jo and other residents. The only difference between her and Jo/Ben is she hadn't a significant other so she's available to stand by Amelia's side. I get that she's good, I just don't feel she's as good as she thinks she is and therefore the speech was unearned.

[Joana]

So, basically:

- I think going through hardships has made you a stronger person.

- You're just jealous because I'm operating circles around you and you're being relegated to trash duty.

There's something wrong with that conversation.

[Biggie B]

Seems to me that Penny(if we are talking reality)

 

 

(Emphasis mine). This is a soap opera...no basis in reality at all! :-)

[SevenStars]

To be fair I don't think Jo thought any of the above. She was shown as genuinely sorry for her actions which she knew were wrong. I don't think she assumes she can treat Stephanie in anyway. If she did she wouldn't have been trying to apologise and salvage a friendship that she feels is important. But i do agree with the above posts that Jo has in the past hurt Srephanie which could be why she's doesn't trust her.

My problem I think is that Stephanie's rant about how brilliant and better she is came out of nowhere. She's not a better doctor or at least I've never seen her to be shown as better or more capable. She has a better attitude then Jo and the attendings prefer her for it but I haven't seen anything to warrant her a cut above Jo and other residents. The only difference between her and Jo/Ben is she hadn't a significant other so she's available to stand by Amelia's side. I get that she's good, I just don't feel she's as good as she thinks she is and therefore the speech was unearned.

Just because Jo is honestly sorry for her actions and willing to apologize for them doesn't mean that she doesn't believe that she can treat people anyway she wants to base on assumptions. It just means that after she treats you badly and realize she is wrong, she will apologize. But that won't keep her from doing it again, apologize and expect the person to be okay with it. Also her actions does seems to assume that Stephanie should trust her with personal info because this whole thing started when Stephanie told Amelia something she never told anyone before and despite how painful Jo saw it was for her to tell that story, Jo immediately believed that Stephenie was lying. When that lie would have in no shape or form benefits Stephenie but Jo still believed the worst.

Stephen might assumed that since the other doctors go out of their way not to work with Jo and all Jo does about this is whine to Alex and others that it means that she is better than Jo since the doctors seems to like working with her and want to work with her. They have confidence in her ability to do the work while they don't have that same confidence in Jo, that is enough to make Stephanie think she is better than Jo and she might be, only time will tell.

Also, Jo'so bitter reactions towards Stephenie when Stephanie is working the system might cause Stephanie to think she is better than Jo. Because if Jo was on her level, Jo would be working the system too in order to show and improve her skills.

Edited October 25, 2015 by SevenStars

[timimouse]

so here I go trying to apply logic to this show, but I was confused by something.  Can you be a resident at a non-teaching hospital?  Penny said the place she worked at was not a teaching hospital but she also said she was "re-matched" to GSMH.  I thought internships/residency was only a thing at teaching hospitals.  Does anyone know how the residency thing works?

 

-overthinking party of 1

 

All medical students have to complete an internship and residency, teaching hospital or not. Most people tend to go for teaching hospitals but it's really a personal choice and not mandatory.

 

I don't like that Jo called Alex a jerk because he was "ignoring" her. He was not ignoring her, he was taking care of his friend. I would do the same thing if I were him. Bros before hoes!

 

I agree with this! Jo also needs to step up and be more damn sociable and stop sulking all the time "why don't they like me?" **rolls eyes**

 

I really, really dislike Amelia but I felt like her outburst and repeatedly badgering Penny and Meredith for details about how Derek died stemmed from the fact that Meredith never called her to let her know "Hey, Derek was in an accident and to get the hospital ASAP because I'm about to pull the plug".

 

While I can understand that Amelia still resents Mer for not calling her that night, I don't entirely blame Meredith. We need to remember that Amelia wasn't alwasy around. Her presence is still very recent. I think if Mark were still alive, Mer would've called him because THAT is who she saw as Derek's family. And yes while Amelia has a right to be hurt and upset too, she expressed it in the wrong way. So i too was on Mer's side. She properly told her off and rightfully so!

 

I'm also on Steph's side in her blowout at Jo. I don't think she was being overly sensitive. She's kicking Jo's ass and Jo is now using her past as an excuse for it. And that pissed me off. No bitch, I'm not better than you because I was sick as a child, I'm better because I work my ass off and I'm good. And if you want to compete with me, step up and stop sitting around looking for excuses.

 

I don't think they're going down the road of Alex and Mer hooking up. I feel like it's truly a solid friendship. (Please writers, don't make me eat those words)

 

Finally, I share the sentiment that the episode was good and the acting was excellent. I just found Maggie really annoying. She never bothered me before but her rants are bugging me this season and I felt her story was out of place in this episode.

I also see Jackson faltering a bit on his stance with April which I hope he bucks up on because she doesn't deserve his forgiveness... yet. I do think that they are good together but she needs to understand why he's angry and I don't think she totally gets it yet.

[izabella]

I also see Jackson faltering a bit on his stance with April which I hope he bucks up on because she doesn't deserve his forgiveness... yet. I do think that they are good together but she needs to understand why he's angry and I don't think she totally gets it yet.

 

 

April is still feeling sorry for herself (for losing Jackson), and is still hyper-focused on what she wants.  Until she gives full consideration and thought to how Jackson feels, she's never getting him back.

[Gladrags]

but other then that it was just an obnoxious speech where Stephanie appeared to think she was a lot better then Jo. If i as part of the audience had seen it then fine maybe but i haven't. 

I haven't either; I've seen Stephanie undermine the other residents so that she gets noticed, she gets the challenging tasks, etc. 

 

But I know that Stephanie is better than the other residents because she always tells us so.

[Deanie87]

So I can see why Stephanie might have reservations about having a proper friendship with Jo. And I say all this as someone who does like Jo.

 

 

Part of the problem is that they have been shown to have a pretty decent friendship up until recently.  Jo was there for Stephanie when she got dumped by Jackson, Stephanie confided in Jo about April and Jackson's baby, and Jo clearly feels comfortable enough with Stephanie to confide in her about Izzie's embryos.  So, for Stephanie to now sort of act like Jo is just some girl that she knows from work doesn't ring true to me either.  I get that maybe Stephanie doesn't trust her enough to tell her about her illness, but she clearly has participated in the friendship as much as Jo in the past.  As for Stephanie's rant, I think that she has a point to a degree, in that Jo isn't really doing much to help herself, but I really don't think that Jo meant it in any way other than trying to further break the ice between them and find common ground.  Despite having a point, Stephanie was really projecting.

 

I agree with this! Jo also needs to step up and be more damn sociable and stop sulking all the time "why don't they like me?" **rolls eyes**

 

 

 

I do think that Jo needs to stop sulking and whining, but I hope that she just throws herself into her career and stops worrying about whether or not Alex's friends like her.  If he is that concerned about it, then he can make the overtures to them about it.   In watching parts of it again, the way that everyone fawned over Penny who is also "only" a resident compared to how rude they have been to Jo over episodes and episodes was ridiculous.  I know that it was mostly for drama, but if they can be courteous to a stranger in deference to Callie, then surely they can be something other than dismissive and flat out mean to Alex's girlfriend of three years.  Not to mention that fact that she lived with Arizona for at least a year and that two seasons ago, Callie was raving about her, but of course all of that is conveniently forgotten.  With Jo's luck, she'll befriend Penny and then everyone will really hate her.

 

I try my best to forget that season 11 ever happened, but it so thoroughly fucked up the storylines of the characters that I most care about, that it is really tough.

[PrincessTT]

Thinking back to how badly George's friends treated Callie when they were together, I'd expect Callie to have a bit more time for Jo and to 'get' her a bit more. 

I really enjoyed when Callie and Jo were working together, I'd like to see Jo head back in that direction. 

[CED9]

Thinking back to how badly George's friends treated Callie when they were together, I'd expect Callie to have a bit more time for Jo and to 'get' her a bit more.

I really enjoyed when Callie and Jo were working together, I'd like to see Jo head back in that direction.

Callie treated Arizona just as bad when it came to Mark. That's what made it so strange. You'd think Callie would've understood.

[windsprints]

I know that it was mostly for drama, but if they can be courteous to a stranger in deference to Callie, then surely they can be something other than dismissive and flat out mean to Alex's girlfriend of three years.

 

Meredith was nicer to a serial killer than she is to Jo.

[pennben]

That is a fantastic perspective on how Meredith treats Jo! Well-played.

[calipiano81]

I hate Amelia. Hate. I seem to have an aversion to the actress. But I felt for her in this episode. She was being fairly insufferable, but she had the right to be upset. Meredith knew it would be problem for Penny's connection to Derek's death to come out. Of course Amelia was going to have a strong and horrified reaction. Why does husband trump brother? Why does Meredith get to say, "well he was my husband. so you don't get to talk or to be upset. We fucked and could get divorced at any time. So that clearly trumps brother on every possible level"? Why does one get to be more devastated than the other? I didn't really like Meredith's actions in this episode. And shutting the door in Callie's face? Derek didn't die two days ago. He died a year and some change ago. We've all been through terrible grief, you hopefully get to a point after a year where you don't wantonly trample over those close to you in your despair.

THANK YOU! I haven't read the rest of the 200+ posts in this thread yet, but this is what I wanted to come in here to vent about. I'm indifferent to Amelia, but her feelings and actions in this episode were completely understandable and appropriate to me.

Meredith acts like she has the monopoly on grieving Derek. Yet, her cold-mannered, emotionless way of grieving makes me wonder if she really misses Derek at all or whether she's just pissed that she's been left to take care of three kids by herself.

[calipiano81]

I usually like Amelia, and I understood her losing it because indeed, it was her brother, until she went into mode "me, me, me" and reproached Meredith with not telling her. Then I was 100% with Meredith (not that I wasn't 100% with her before). There, yes, shut up. I liked her better in the end, when she became more self-aware.

But why DIDN'T Meredith tell Amelia? Or any one of Derek's friends at that dinner party? If it's not a grief competition, why does Meredith get to make it all about "me,me,me"? She acts weird all night and then when she finally lays the Penny bombshell, walks away and leaves everyone to recover from it.

Edited October 26, 2015 by calipiano81

[Yogi Nomad]

I think I understand both Meredith and Amelia. There is no wrong way to grieve. However Amelia came across as childish to me. Maybe it's the acting but I don't blame Amelia for yelling at Mere.

 

 I don't mind Jo but her character has became so annoying. I like her better when she was a hairball and Alex trying to avoid her. And didn't Jo try to flirt with Callie to get ahead back in the day and Callie suggested she should try with Alex instead? I don't know. Jolex was kind of cute for a hot minute but Jo should have just walked away when it is clear that Mere is Alex's first priority. She should know better and respect herself more. So, I'm on Stephanie side even though she was kinda a jerk. 

 

I didn't mind the vagina talk or the sex talk, but Maggie was a bit much.  I get it she has quirk or whatever but she's not that young to act that way. Having said that, I do like her and hot intern. 

 

More Arizona/April please. I like their friendship. 

[North]

Callie treated Arizona just as bad when it came to Mark. That's what made it so strange. You'd think Callie would've understood.

That is not at all true.

The narrative that Callie picked Mark over Arizona is one Arizona fans like to trot out in order to justify Arizona's past behaviour.

Did she allow him too much space in their relationship, specifically after Sofia was born? Yes.

Arizona never articulated to Callie about what she wanted Callie to do about Mark. Her problem was their past sexual history.

It was in the past. Romantically she chose Arizona.

Callie was never going to remove Mark from her life because he was her family, the only one who never walked away from her, so what exactly did Arizona want her to do? She never said.

Callie never treated Arizona as badly as Arizona treated her on a number of occasions.

[Meow25]

I thought the entire thing was so contrived....but a few things:  

 

#1.  I was a Grey's junkie.  I fizzled during seasons 7-11.  I watched every epi, but unenthusiastically. Lately, however, I find myself looking forward to having Grey's on my DVR now.  I guess the writers are doing something right, though I'm having a hard time putting my finger on what it is that I like.  

#2.  The writers need to figure out what they are doing with Owen and Arizona.  I like Arizona, I don't like Owen, but regardless...they just don't seem to be adding anything to the show.  

 

#3.  I think Alex & Mer will be the end game for their parts in the series.  Alex has grown so so so much in the last season or two.  He was on Jo's level (maturity wise) when they hooked up, but he has outgrown her & it's obvious. Mer & Alex are friends first with a major hint of chemistry in this episode.  I've NEVER noticed any chemistry between them before (as lovers) so that moment between them was there FOR a REASON.  Mark my words.  I would bet anything that Alex and Meredith eventually fall into a romantic relationship, and that will be the end of their story on Grey's Anatomy.  Shonda is planning for Meredith's departure, she's reestablished the house of Grey in Maggie.  Don't get me wrong, I was a HUGE MerDer shipper, but if there is ever to be love once again for Mer, it has to be a mature, grown up love...and I can see that from Alex.  

 

#4.  Speaking of Maggie, but forgive me........is her new relationship a backward mirror of Mer/Der?  Woman head of cardio bangs an intern?  Just saying.  I see some similarities.  

#5.  This Penny shit is so frigging convoluted.  The idea that Callie, who is supposedly so IN LOVE with Penny, wouldn't have known ANYTHING about her???  What?  Do doctors not communicate properly?  Color me confused.  I see *zero* chemistry between Penny & Callie.  Zero.  Like less chemistry than she had with George.  Penny is no substitute for Arizona or Mark.  Anyway, are they all so self absorbed that only Alex notices the tension in the room?  So weird.  The fact that she is working at GS is so stupid, and something I called right after Meredith made her speech to Penny after Derek died.  Shonda is SO transparent.  

[Nobodysfan]

I thought the entire thing was so contrived....but a few things:  

 

#1.  I was a Grey's junkie.  I fizzled during seasons 7-11.  I watched every epi, but unenthusiastically. Lately, however, I find myself looking forward to having Grey's on my DVR now.  I guess the writers are doing something right, though I'm having a hard time putting my finger on what it is that I like.  

#2.  The writers need to figure out what they are doing with Owen and Arizona.  I like Arizona, I don't like Owen, but regardless...they just don't seem to be adding anything to the show.  

 

#3.  I think Alex & Mer will be the end game for their parts in the series.  Alex has grown so so so much in the last season or two.  He was on Jo's level (maturity wise) when they hooked up, but he has outgrown her & it's obvious. Mer & Alex are friends first with a major hint of chemistry in this episode.  I've NEVER noticed any chemistry between them before (as lovers) so that moment between them was there FOR a REASON.  Mark my words.  I would bet anything that Alex and Meredith eventually fall into a romantic relationship, and that will be the end of their story on Grey's Anatomy.  Shonda is planning for Meredith's departure, she's reestablished the house of Grey in Maggie.  Don't get me wrong, I was a HUGE MerDer shipper, but if there is ever to be love once again for Mer, it has to be a mature, grown up love...and I can see that from Alex.  

 

#4.  Speaking of Maggie, but forgive me........is her new relationship a backward mirror of Mer/Der?  Woman head of cardio bangs an intern?  Just saying.  I see some similarities.  

#5.  This Penny shit is so frigging convoluted.  The idea that Callie, who is supposedly so IN LOVE with Penny, wouldn't have known ANYTHING about her???  What?  Do doctors not communicate properly?  Color me confused.  I see *zero* chemistry between Penny & Callie.  Zero.  Like less chemistry than she had with George.  Penny is no substitute for Arizona or Mark.  Anyway, are they all so self absorbed that only Alex notices the tension in the room?  So weird.  The fact that she is working at GS is so stupid, and something I called right after Meredith made her speech to Penny after Derek died.  Shonda is SO transparent.  

I think the same. 

 

All in all, I agree with everything you said. A cool commentary.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Nobodysfan

[justme]

This was a great episode because it was about the people and their relationships, they way it was in the early years. I hope it lasts.

 

Merdith has always been my favorite, followed by Christina and Derick.  Sad that Christina and Derick are gone, thank goodness for the DVD's that I can visit them anytime.

 

I would love to see Alex and Mereidth end up together.

Edited October 26, 2015 by justme

[represent]

 

I think Alex & Mer will be the end game for their parts in the series.  Alex has grown so so so much in the last season or two.  He was on Jo's level (maturity wise) when they hooked up, but he has outgrown her & it's obvious. Mer & Alex are friends first with a major hint of chemistry in this episode.  I've NEVER noticed any chemistry between them before (as lovers) so that moment between them was there FOR a REASON.  Mark my words.  I would bet anything that Alex and Meredith eventually fall into a romantic relationship, and that will be the end of their story on Grey's Anatomy.  Shonda is planning for Meredith's departure, she's reestablished the house of Grey in Maggie.  Don't get me wrong, I was a HUGE MerDer shipper, but if there is ever to be love once again for Mer, it has to be a mature, grown up love...and I can see that from Alex.

 

Yeah, good points, and he did hit on her in the first season, before they went with him and Izzie. I forge who he asked, but he did ask someone if Meredith was seeing anyone. And I also remember in one of Shonda's podcast back in season two, I think it was the Thanksgiving episode, a scene with Alex and Meredith and them talking about there lives and how she had went off and traveled and he was running around aimlessly before they both decide to get their shit together and go to med school. Shonda had mentioned that the two had that  in common in terms of getting off course and so both Mer and Alex were a little older than Cristina, George  and Izzie. So basically they were coming from the same place or time and space in their lives.

 

Correction, he wasn't running around aimlessly, sorry Alex, he got injured I think and his wrestling career was over. 

Edited October 26, 2015 by represent

[Chas411]

I always though Alex, Ozzie and George were the younger interns and Cristina and Meredith were older which is why they bonded.

[represent]

Meredith and Alex were the ones that were just a little older because they had taken a detour, they didn't go straight to med school. I even think there were about two episodes with patients who were athletes and Alex was on their cases because that was where his career was going first before he decided to go to med school. The one guy who was a wrestler and was into pain and ended up dying and the girl who's coach ruined her career by pushing too hard. He was pissed at her coach. And Meredith we know was traveling all over Europe.

 

I think Meredith and Cristina became close because they felt they understood each other the most and I honestly think they both were set up as being the most driven. I remember that first day, they both knew who the other one was, they had researched the competition. And then Meredith pointed out the lack of women in the program, and then Cristina of course pointed out that having one of them being a model didn't help matters, LOL.

 

Meredith wasn't cutesy bubbly like Izzie nor was she as dry and hardcore as Cristina she was a combination of the two and very driven so I'd say that lent itself to her being a bit closer to Yang. Not to mention she understood Yangs personality because Yang was like her mother. I always felt like Yang allowed her to feel a closeness with someone like her mother, cause she never felt close to the actual Ellis Grey.Yet she could find the closest of relationships with someone who basically personality wise just like her mother. I mean Yang thought Meredith was cool, she did.

Edited October 26, 2015 by represent

[tua20782]

Cristina is a double Doctor so she should be a little older too. Right?

[Kagomei]

Actually, Cristina is the oldest of them. You can see it here.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Kagomei

[represent]

 

Actually, Cristina is the oldest of them. You can see it here.

Interesting because that's not what Shonda said on that podcast. Where do these years come from is it from the people behind the scenes at the show? Who put this together?

 

Although it would make sense unless Cristina skipped grades to graduate high school early since yeah, she was a double major with a PhD.  But I remember her linking Alex and Mer in age and that they were older not younger than the other three.

Edited October 26, 2015 by represent

[windsprints]

I'm pretty sure they retconned Meredith's age and deaged her. In the pilot script (it was online at some point) she was 32 and was written as such. Example: go watch the episode when she was looking for roommates. Meredith asks where the person was when the Challenger exploded. The woman said kindergarten and Meredith said she was too young. She wouldn't have said that if she was supposed to be in first grade then (age 6). I can't remember all the details but I think she went backwards in age around when Lexie showed up.

Edited October 26, 2015 by windsprints

[calipiano81]

We haven't seen anything to show Stephanie "operating circles" around Jo or any proof that's as superior as she thinks she is. The whole rant was so obnoxious and I can only assume it had more to do with Stephanie's own insecurities then it did what Jo actually said. I didn't even think there was anything offensive about it. She tried to bond with her over shared difficult childhoods. She apologized repeatedly for what she did and was shown as genuinely sorry and upset that may have lost her friend.

The only jealousy I've seen with Jo and Stephanie is Jo's frustration over how everyone prefers Stephanie to her. I think this stems from her own insecurities that Alex's friends don't like her and judging from their treatment of her tonight I can see where the insecurity is coming from. They're dismissive of her, bossy and there's just an obvious isolation between them and her. Even when she makes the effort they throw it back at her. I don't think she helps herself by being stroppy and letting that chip on her shoulder show but I do get why she feels so defensive. She didn't want to go to the dinner party but Alex asked her too. He then ignored her for the entire night for Meredith who is actively rude to her (in front of Alex). I get Meredith needed Alex and I think for the most part Jo has supported that friendship despite how terribly Meredith treats her but I think with Stephanie fighting with her and her obvious discomfort and loneliness at the party I can see why she'd be annoyed at him. Also, maybe she like many the viewer can see how one sided the friendship is and that if the tables were turned Meredith probably wouldn't be half as devoted to Alex as he is to her.

I agree with all of this.

I like Jo and Alex together, but I'm thinking she needs to break it off from Alex (at least for a little while) to show she's not going to keep standing for all that crap.

Edited October 26, 2015 by calipiano81

[represent]

 

I'm pretty sure they retconned Meredith's age and deaged her. In the pilot script (it was online at some point) she was 32 and was written as such. Example: go watch the episode when she was looking for roommates. Meredith asks where the person was when the Challenger exploded. The woman said kindergarten and Meredith said she was too young. She wouldn't have said that if she was supposed to be in first grade then (age 6). I can't remember all the details but I think she went backwards in age around when Lexie showed up.

Thanks that's what I thought and Cristina was 28 in season two when she had the miscarriage. Her age is listed right next to the word age on the OR board. They had the type of surgery, M or F for the patient's gender and then the patient's age, she was 28 then. So when Shonda said in the podcast that Mer and Alex were a little older in season two I thought well if Cristina is 28, Mer and Alex are probably 30. Because she said they she always saw them as being just a little older because of that break they took between going to med. school.

Edited October 26, 2015 by represent

[kdm07]

Random thought: was anyone else disturbed by the fact that Maggie didn't flush when she was done? It bugged me the entire episode that no one else bothered to flush afterwards either.

[Chas411]

I hated that scene mainly because my SO came into the room to tell me something and I muted the TV and he asked me what the hell was I watching because her muted facial expressions made it look like she was having constipation issues.

[Nobodysfan]

I hated that scene mainly because my SO came into the room to tell me something and I muted the TV and he asked me what the hell was I watching because her muted facial expressions made it look like she was having constipation issues.

I agree, one awful scene.

Random thought: was anyone else disturbed by the fact that Maggie didn't flush when she was done? It bugged me the entire episode that no one else bothered to flush afterwards either.

Right?!

 

She apparently only keeps proper hygiene of her own body, who cares to flush the toilette when others come to use it and make it clean for them.Yuck.

 

All these characters are selfish brats.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Nobodysfan

[Artymouse]

I think they did retcon Meredith's age. If she was born in 1978, as we've learned from the Maggie episodes, she would've been 7 or 8 when the Challenger exploded. What's that, second grade?

I know it's a little murky what year it's supposed to be in Seasons 1-3. But if Lexie is 24 in Season 4, Meredith has to be at least 31-ish. If Thatcher left when Mer was 5, he (presumably) couldn't have fathered Lexie right away since (again presumably) he probably hadn't even met Susan yet. So a 1978 birthdate means Meredith was 26 if season 1 is set in 2004, 28 if it's 2006. Either way, it's not possible. Yes, I spent way too much time thinking about that instead of working.

And I agree that the Maggie and the sisters bathroom scene was ick. Maggie's nickname should be Dr. TMI; I guess now it could also be Dr. UTI.

[Chas411]

How was Lexie only 24 when we met her? I tjhought that interns average age was 26 or 27. Lexi seems young .

[CED9]

How was Lexie only 24 when we met her? I tjhought that interns average age was 26 or 27. Lexi seems young .

She and Mark had that scene where he says something like "you're 25, you're a fetus" and Lexie says "24, I skipped 3rd grade."

[jabbi]

I had to re-watch this episode before sharing my thoughts so I'm a little late to the party. No pun intended.

I loved EP this episode. She did a solid job portraying a confused, grieving widow. the scene with Amelia was excellent. I wish Amelia would just go ahead and leave the show. She can take Owen with her.

I also like Meredith and Alex. It reminds me of the season one "we are family" feel they had. I don't sense any chemistry there, just solid friendship. I like it.

Did not care for the Jo/Stephanie crap. At all. I don't really like Stephanie anyways. I did happen to notice her and Jackson talking and April giving them some major side-eye. Speaking of, I love April's character development. I'm hoping she turns into a badass she-ra trauma surgeon who don't need no man. But this is Shondaland and a soap opera so I'm not holding my breath.

Callie was not good for me. She was a terrible friend when it was discovered that Penny was Derek's Doctor. She should have been finding her friends and making sure they were ok, not chasing Penny around crying (these people are too old for this shit. It's annoying). She's been dating this girl all of 5 minutes and she's bawling and chasing her like she lost a great love. Give me a break.

Arizona has been my least favorite character of all time until this episode. If drunk Arizona could be on the show all of the time, that'd be great. Sadly, we will never see her again and we will get same old Arizona who is constantly whining about things not going her way.

I do have to comment on Owen saying he wished Christina dead. What were the writers going for? That whole dialogue was a total mess. Again, if he and Amelia could just go that'd be super.

Bailey got her story line of the season and now she's in the background to make room for the hundreds of other story lines this show needs to have running at once. Fine by me, I don't like Bailey.

Penny can go ahead and go. I'm not excited for another person on this show.

Anyone else who appeared in this episode did not even cross my radar because there are so many main characters that I can't actually focus on them all.

[St. Claire]

I still can't quite wrap my head around the geographic details of the hospitals and the houses- sometimes they made it seem like the dream house on the hill was close to Seattle Grace/GSM, other times it seems as though it was a trek across the Puget Sound and a huge endeavor. Derek was driving to the airport through areas that were remote enough that they made a point of him going out of cell range. So, Penny's non-trauma hospital wasn't close enough to transport him to a local trauma center. But it was apparently close enough that Amelia would have been able to jump in the car and come intervene in the case. So I'm confused on that account, in regards to what Amelia expected to happen.

 

Although I know it couldn't work within that scene (Penny was probably shell shocked), I would have loved to have Penny respond to "Perfect Penny killed my husband" with "No, I tried to save your husband, but the overbearing and arrogant doctors how outrank me killed your husband."

[windsprints]

We know Derek had to take a ferry from the dream house (its been referenced a number of times). I don't know the geography of Seattle but can't see it being close to the hospital.

[Kagomei]

I've seen a lot of people saying that the dream house was located in the Bainbridge Island, so it was probably far from the hospital. Although I don't know the geography of Seattle either.

[izabella]

The ferry ride from Bainbridge Island to downtown Seattle is 35 minutes.  SeaTac is 14 miles south of Seattle.  There would not have been a "wilderness" route for Derek to go from the ferry doc in Seattle to SeaTac.  A suburban hospital near SeaTac or on the way to the aiport would have been within 20 miles for Amelia to drive from GreySloanMercyDeath.

Edited October 28, 2015 by izabella

[Clanstarling]

I hated that scene mainly because my SO came into the room to tell me something and I muted the TV and he asked me what the hell was I watching because her muted facial expressions made it look like she was having constipation issues.

Having peed with a UTI, I imagine my face looked like I had major constipation issues. So I just thought she was doing a good job acting. LOL.

Edited October 28, 2015 by clanstarling