S05.E04: The Broken Kingdom

[formerlyfreedom]

After receiving a cryptic warning from Lancelot about Arthur's intentions, Mary Margaret realizes Arthur may be the heroes' biggest threat, but when she is unable to convince David of the danger, she takes matters into her own hands. Meanwhile, Hook's unwavering love for Emma provides a glimmer of hope in her struggle against the unrelenting voice of Rumplestiltskin. In a Camelot flashback, Guinevere senses that Arthur is losing his way, consumed by his obsession with making Excalibur whole, so she sets out with Lancelot on her own quest into the heart of darkness. In Storybrooke, Dark Emma unleashes a secret weapon in the next phase of her plan to find the brave soul she needs to draw Excalibur from the stone.

 

 

[Rosiejuliemom]

You suck, Arthur!

[mjgchick]

Damn Emma thinks her parents betrayed her because Arthur has magic'd them to doing his bidding. Also gross he's been raping Gwen this whole time.

 

Also Gwen and Arthur probably used Lancelot's heart to do the curse. SMH.

Edited October 19, 2015 by mjgchick

[Spartan Girl]

Captain Swan kissing in a field of roses made me ridiculously happy.

So Guinevere isn't the one pulling the strings after all. Pity.

Just when I was about to write David off as a complete moron, he and Snow pull a fast one on Arthur. Too bad they wound up getting brainwashed.

And Merida is Arthur's prisoner (and Dark Swan's). Is he the one that killed her dad?!

[Worsel]

My thoughts on The Broken Kingdom:

 

I remain disappointed that the quest is to find Excalibur’s missing tip/DO dagger and not the Holy Grail.  Arthur is clearly misguided and must have misunderstood whatever Merlin the Tree told him.  OK I know the writers changed it for the show, but I still hope the Grail will eventually be mentioned, at least.  We did get a Monty Python Holy Grail reference (the “Comfy Chair” voiced by Charming to Arthur at sword point.)  

 

So Guinevere felt neglected by Arthur because he was obsessed with finding the dagger.  What a mundane explanation of why she had an affair with Lancelot.  I guess I expected a more complex or interesting reason for her and Lancelot’s unfaithfulness. 

 

Great costumes.  I loved the ivory and gold lace dress Guinevere wore to her birthday party, and her “adventure” outfit.

 

Yay! We get to see inside the vault.  The black oil seemed surprisingly easy to vanquish with a bit of fire.  Or maybe that was Rumple’s plan all along to lure Guinevere and the Gauntlet to him.  I guess the vault connects different realms together?

 

I loved Hook’s reaction to Henry’s revelation about Violet.  And his innuendo about getting Emma’s heart racing by “riding”.  And Awwwww when Hook and Emma kissed.  In fact I really enjoyed all of Colin’s scenes.

 

It will be interesting to see Rumple's bravery training.  Given his underlying cowardice it will definitely be an uphill battle.

My favorite quote of the night came from Regina: “I get antsy when I don’t know who I should hate.”

 

Edited to add - I was wrong about the comfy chair reference - it was actually from their skit about the Spanish Inquisition.  Darn it, I hate when I mistake Monty Python references.  

Edited October 19, 2015 by Worsel

[bmoore4026]

Illusion sand?  That explains several things.

[InsertWordHere]

Did that actually happen? After 90+ episodes, did our good guys actually manage to use their wits to not be manipulated by an evil force? It didn't last and I knew it wouldn't, but boy was it nice to see for once! The show really had me fooled for a second there with Charming and I was ready to be very angry. I laughed out loud at both the Snowing Triumphant scene and the scene of Hook telling Emma to stop talking to the voice in her head and get on the bloody horse.

 

Arthur should be Regina's true love. They have a lot in common.

 

They really need to stop using the "Five years earlier/later" timestamp when it's not five years, it's 2 or 3 years before the curse plus 28 years plus 2 or 3 years post curse.

[Mari]

Why bother with the nicely specific “Many Years Ago” and “Years later” datestamps and then follow it up with the “Five Years Later” timestamp that completely tarantellas all over the timeline?  So, time must have completely stopped in Camelot, too, when Regina cast the curse, and, now, suddenly it’s under five years (leaving out the 28 curse years) since David and Snow were married, which makes the rest of the timeline make sense, how?

 

Um . . . Guinevere is growing up in the exact same place as Arthur and the bullying villager children.  Why do we have three entirely separate accents going on?  What?  Huh?  Logic, show, use it.  Or at least fake using it better.

 

“The power to destroy the darkness once and for all.”  That had better be the Dark One ooze, and not just evil in general, because, well, if not?  This plotline is even more ridiculous and stupid than Operation Mongoose’s “Write Regina a happy ending, even though free will exists!” plotline.

 

It was really good to see a fight between David and Snow, that was actually hostile, and actually about something worth fighting about.   And using it to fool Arthur was a good idea.  Nicely done, show.

 

And Once Upon a Time again demonstrates the truly horrible relationship it has with consent.  Poor Guinevere.

[CatMack]

Here's the thing, in the 5 years since Arthur magically "fixed" his wife to make her love him again, there's no way I believe they haven't slept together.  And Gwen pretty clearly was done with Arthur in his current state.  Which means once again these writers have introduced rape that they will never actually deal with as rape because they seem to think if you use magic to coerce someone then it doesn't really count.

 

I do have good things to say about the ep, I just have to go take 8 showers first to wash off the stink of these writers' inability to understand consent.

[mjgchick]

How did Arthur and Gwen meet Rumpelstiltskin when he was busy being frozen as Mr. Gold?

 

Also forgot to say Dark Swan still have the rose. I can't take those two idiots anymore.

[OnceUponAJen]

Arthur is worse than I first thought. He's taking away everyone's agency!

[HoodlumSheep]

I have stuff to say, but I'll say it later.

I love shady Arthur (but poor guinevere, she was fierce though).

CS was adorable. captain Cobra Swan was adorable.

So A&E decided to officially throw out timeline continuity? That stuff should have said 30ish years ago, not five.

When/how did Guinevere get the gauntlet? Did I miss a scene?

Snowing was awesome.

Poor Lancelot. So Merida got captured?

Lastly, the Dark One goo is afraid of fire????

[KingOfHearts]

Hm. Well. Lancelot wasn't kidding when he said Camelot "wasn't what it seems".

 

* The flashbacks said "5 Years Earlier", meaning the Dagger would be in Storybrooke and Guinevere wouldn't have the gauntlet. Maybe they're not counting the curse years, but that's a little confusing seeing how they always have before.

* GUINEVERE!! I feel so sorry for you! I'm sorry I ever thought you were shady!

* It's getting to be really hard to not hate Arthur. He's a jerk!

* Snowing got to have an epic moment. I loved seeing them actually do something cool for once.

* "She's not coming!" I cracked up.

* That enchanted sand never seems to run out. There was enough for Garthur, an entire kingdom, and then Snowing.

* Emma's still killing it as a tortured soul.

* Lancelot for MVP.

* The scene at the end with Emma and Rumple was full of villainous awesomeness.

* The Camelot flashbacks got a bit too soapy for me.

* Merida is important because she's... brave? I guess? I suppose there's no other courageous people around in Heroville.

* Is anyone else getting Ben/Jacob vibes from Arthur/Merlin? Camelot folk are basically the Others.

 

Did that actually happen? After 90+ episodes, did our good guys actually manage to use their wits to not be manipulated by an evil force?

I thought for sure Charming had grabbed the idiot ball. Where was this cleverness when Zelena was a phony midwife?

 

 

When/how did Guinevere get the gauntlet? Did I miss a scene?

She said she swiped it from Merlin's tower.

Edited October 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Worsel]

How did Arthur and Gwen meet Rumpelstiltskin when he was busy being frozen as Mr. Gold?

 

I think this took place when he was still in the EF and with Belle - just before Belle was kidnapped by the Queens of Darkness

[Mari]

* Merida is important because she's... brave? I guess? I suppose there's no other courageous people around in Heroville.

Yes.  Evidently.

 

What are the chances we'll get a decent reason Dark Swan couldn't just get Merida to pull it out, instead of heroifying Rumple?

 

If they resolve this whole Dark Swan issue mostly by reuniting the Dagger and the Sword, I'm going to want a decent reason they couldn't have just done that in Camelot, and, hopefully, took down creepy Arthur at the same time.

[sharky]

Pros: Captain Hook!!!!!!!! His reaction to Henry's crush was adorable. His fight for Emma's heart was noble. And that kiss? Swoon.

Cons: The rest. The angst seemed too contrived to me. And I have to go back and rewatch Rumple's explanation of the sand stuff.

And what the hell was up with that timeline? Five years ago? Five years ago, Gold was in Storybrooke under a curse and frankly I can't remember where the dagger was, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't in the Jungle Book. There's going to be some kind of explanation, right?

And where the hell did Lancelot cone from?

So yea, aside from Captain Swan and Henry's cute crush, this episode seemed to be a whole ball of dark mess.

[YaddaYadda]

Am I the only one who got confused by the dark goop floating around in the Dark One's vault? Isn't it supposed to be tethered to him? WTF was that?

 

I have a lot of thoughts about it, but I'm gonna have to rewatch to form a coherent thought. 

 

Not a bad episode.

[Chaos Theory]

Well it's nice to know Snow and David didn't do something stupidly stupid of their own free will. I like them as a team that can put aside their differences and work together for their daughter.

I am kinda meh on the whole Camelot plot but I did like the twist on Lancellot and Guinevere.

Emma is still killing it as the Dark one.

.

[Worsel]

When/how did Guinevere get the gauntlet? Did I miss a scene?

 

I think from their reliquary box?

[AmeliaBedelia]

I didn't love this one.

 

Cons:

Felt like filler. Nothing happened until the last few minutes.

The switch between present-day Camelot and 5 years ago was tedious. Even the captions bugged me.

David looked dumb for the most part as did Snow.

I yelled "Don't say it" (meaning Brave) when Emma was looking at Merida.

Arthur is a douche. Using the sand on Guinevere was icky.

 

Pros:

Captain Swan were pretty as ever. I loved the scene in the barn. I'm going to re-watch for Colin's facial expressions alone.

Minimal Regina. I might even start to miss her if they use her sparingly. 

Lancelot is cool. I like the actor. He convincingly plays a noble/knightly character. I also like that he used Snow's real name.

They explained the gauntlet. Better late than never.

They also used Snow's vision of young Emma. The show can remember its own plot points sometimes.

[Worsel]

Am I the only one who got confused by the dark goop floating around in the Dark One's vault? Isn't it supposed to be tethered to him? WTF was that?

 

Agreed, didn't make a lot of sense unless it can come and go at will from its host, which we've never seen before.  Maybe the host can release part of it to patrol the vault?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Am I the only one who got confused by the dark goop floating around in the Dark One's vault? Isn't it supposed to be tethered to him? WTF was that?

I did too! I didn't understand what was going on until Rumple popped up and did his whole spiel. The darkness surrounding Lancelot seemed very unnecessary. I thought it would kill him or something, but maybe it was trying to fool the audience?

 

They explained the gauntlet. Better late than never.

If this were the episode that introduced the gauntlet, it would have been less contrived than in 4x11.

 

 

I really like the whole Camelot is an illusion thing. I think it really fits in well with the legend.

Me too. You can just see the cardboard set tipping over. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

I really like the whole Camelot is an illusion thing. I think it really fits in well with the legend.

Um . . . Guinevere is growing up in the exact same place as Arthur and the bullying villager children.  Why do we have three entirely separate accents going on?  What?  Huh?  Logic, show, use it.  Or at least fake using it better.

And one of the bullies had an American accent. This bugged me so much. Hook also called Merida a fiery Scot when I'm pretty sure there's no Scotland in Fairytale Land.  

[OnceUponAJen]

If the Dark One gave Guinevere that "fix" powder, shouldn't Dark Swan know about it? And can they use it to fix Emma?

[YaddaYadda]

And what the hell was up with that timeline? Five years ago? Five years ago, Gold was in Storybrooke under a curse and frankly I can't remember where the dagger was, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't in the Jungle Book. There's going to be some kind of explanation, right?

 

Yes, thank you!

 

What in the fucking world was up with that messed up timeline? 30 years ago, Lancelot was with Snowing, off marrying them! He had already left Camelot because of a woman.

 

So unless time moves in Camelot the same way it moves in Neverland, the timeline given in this episode makes zero sense. Plus, it's a day's walk from the Dark One's vault...it wasn't cursed? Was it trapped in Cora Dome?

 

I demand an explanation.

 

Captain Swan...outdoors sex? Just me? I'll see myself out.

 

I think from their reliquary box?

No, it was in Merlin's tower. Arthur was too dumb to use it.

Edited October 19, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/655906346190028800

 

Adam is telling people the timeline lines up. What the heck?

[pezgirl7]

The 5 years ago Camelot flashbacks were pretty boring, so I was mostly interested in the main cast.

I loved how giddy Hook was when he learned about Henry's crush. The faces he was making were priceless. I also loved how he's totally over Emma seeing spirit guide Rumple. "Get on the horse." And the kiss at the end with the sun shining, and the field of roses, and the pan out... so perfect. sigh

I loved the fake out with Snow and Charming. Too bad they still got screwed over.

In reply to an earlier comment, I don't think Gwen and Lancelot ever had an affair. They shared one kiss, said it would never happen again, and then Lancelot left town.

Edited October 19, 2015 by pezgirl7

[TwistedandBored]

All I got from this episode was the show is still using magic as the cop-out instead of letting their characters make a mistake or make any decision. 

 

Also, Merlin is stuck in a tree and Lancelot might either be dead or stuck in a basement. Honestly, the way this show treats their POC characters still amazes me. 

[Randomosity]

Captain Swan...outdoors sex? Just me? I'll see myself out.

 

Nope, not just you. I was waiting/hoping for them to tumble down into the grass during the zoom out. And also, horses was not what I had in mind when Hook suggested Emma riding astride something to get her heart rate up...

 

Yep, Captain Swan was pretty well the only thing that happened tonight. I kept waiting for things to happen in the episode and suddenly it was ~8:40 and a whole lot of Arthur nothingness was still dragging on.

[Artsda]

I loved the episode. The trick by Snow & Charming, Swan and Hook's horse ride and kiss in the field. Hook's reaction to Henry's crush was great.

[ABitOFluff]

You know, I know there would be no show without some conflict, but I get the feeling if everyone just stayed home and let Hook handle things, there wouldn't be a Dark Swan. So, yeah, the best parts for me were Captain Swan. I even loved when they spied on Henry and Violet.

 

Proud that Snowing didn't fall for Arthur's tricks, but then get a spell put on them. D'oh!

 

I really liked Lancelot. Hope to see more of him.

[CalamityBoPeep]

It's weird.  I enjoyed it, for the most part, but really don't have anything particularly interesting to think about with it.  Enjoyed the Captain Swan scenes... people will be using those to make videos for Youtube for ages.  Henry and Hook in the barn were adorable.

 

Glad Charming and Snow pulled together.  Other than that... well, Arthur is gross.

 

I guess that means it was an ok episode, but they didn't really knock it out of the park, for me.  Oh well then... on to next week.

 

ETA: 

 

Captain Swan...outdoors sex? Just me? I'll see myself out.

 

 

No, no... me too.  :-)   I'll just be sitting over here, in the gutter. Heh.

Edited October 19, 2015 by CalamityBoPeep

[pezgirl7]

Couldn't Camelot have been frozen in time for 28 years like the rest of the EF? So 5 years ago in Camelot could actually mean 2 years before the curse hit. Rumple would still be sparkly then.

Also, I just remembered Rumple bringing up Milah. That was creepy.

Edited October 19, 2015 by pezgirl7

[YaddaYadda]

https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/655906346190028800

 

Adam is telling people the timeline lines up. What the heck?

 

Yeah, time doesn't move the same way. I'm guessing it's 5 years ago, Camelot time. 5 years passed in Camelot, but a lot more passed in the outside world. 

 

Camelot = Neverland (sort of) and it's not really shocking since they've shown two characters (Arthur and Hook) who have been after the dagger for a really long time, but chose different paths. Hook chose Emma, Arthur chose the dagger basically.

Edited October 19, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

 

Yeah, time doesn't move the same way. I'm guessing it's 5 years ago, Camelot time. 5 years passed in Camelot, but a lot more passed in the outside world.

That's... overly confusing. After all the weird timey-wimey craziness on this show,  why did they select this episode to account for multiple speeds of time? They've never done that before. Not even in Neverland or for the curse. Adam said to "watch the timeline carefully, it tracks". That doesn't seem in insinuate that there's another element regarding time in Camelot they haven't revealed yet.

Edited October 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Worsel]

Also, I just remembered Rumble bringing up Milah. That was creepy.

Yes that was a nice bit of continuity.

[chrisvee]

Arthur is a bit not good. He and the Mills sisters have lots to chat about.

Captain Swan is swoon worthy. And Emma still has a pink rose. ::sigh::

[Panopticon]

I liked this episode. It wasn't brilliant, I don't crave a rewatch, it could easily be ripped to shreds with hard analysis, but it amused me for an hour and I find that an acceptable standard.

 

Early on in this episode I found myself frustrated by the lack of present day plot, but then I got lost in the story and didn't realize that we hadn't seen Storybrooke all hour until the very end. There were some nice  references to earlier episodes (including Rumple's trip to Camelot), some smart decisions by the main protagonists, and an excellent lack of the Zelena plot. 

 

Team Camelot:

 

I know Kay is a petulant loudmouth punk, but OUAT already killed him. Was it necessary to have flashbacks to him being a one-note bully too? I mean... he WAS loyal to Arthur and Camelot for all his flaws. What am I saying? Everyone from Camelot, especially Arthur, is basically awful. (Possible exception of Lancelot.)

 

I continue to be annoyed that Snow didn't do any kind of identity check on the presumed dead Lancelot. Though I guess his behavior today proves her right.

 

"I'm going to finish the damned quest and get back the man I love." Heh. And the show continues its longstanding tradition of badass queens/princesses.

 

Merida's involvement is cheesy and stupid. It is, however, my kind of cheesy and stupid. Brave puns and a Pixar heroine chilling in King Arthur's dungeon for a fractured fairy tale mess? Yes, I'm okay with this.

 

Team Snowing:

 

Snow calling Charming on his childlike craving to be a hero was cool. Almost like Snowing not only have a personality, but have TWO separate  personalities, one for each.

 

Nice callback to Snow's vision of evil teen Emma. Much like Rumple's attempts to avoid Bae growing up without him, Snow may have made herself a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Snow's snarky "she's not coming" upon tricking Arthur with a fake dagger was great. As was Charming's  Python-esque "You tried to trick me with a catchy title and a comfy chair." And then their confirmation that their fight was very real... proof that married couples can continue to click chemistry-wise onscreen.

 

Team Captain Swan:

 

"Come on, love. Let's sail away." Aww. I'm not annoyed at any of the main characters this week, but I'd still be okay with Emma doing that for real once she's free of the Darkness.

 

Henry: There's this girl.

Emma: ::most adorable reaction shot ever::

Hook: Is there indeed?

 

(Okay, maybe Henry can come with Emma and Hook, now that he's able to do things other than worship at Regina's feet.)

 

Hook/Emma spying on Henry looked a bit like them spying Snowing's first meeting when they time traveled at the end of season 3. What a strange way of family bonding. Okay, maybe Emma and Hook can stay with her whole family, as long as she doesn't return to indentured savior status at the expense of having a life of her own.

 

Glad Emma told Hook that she was seeing Rumple. And glad that focusing on Hook could chase Rumple out of her mind. But something about the direction/production/camerawork with the Hook/Emma/Horse scenes was weird.

 

I've missed seeing Gold in Gold-form rather than just as Emma's head!Rumple. Getting a few seconds of him this week and last has been tantalizing in a good way.

 

The last shot of the promo broke my heart.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Panopticon

[Senna]

For my own sanity, I'm just going to assume the 5 years bit means "excluding the years of curse time that for some reason covered Camelot but whatever ignore the man behind the curtain."

 

There was a lot of nice Captain Swan going on in this episode, for which I was grateful.  And of course, Hook's glee at Henry's first crush was adorable!

 

I was ready to be mad at Snowing for being dumb/too trusting, but they actually did a good job ... until the magic dust.  But for what it's worth, even though the Arthur backstory was fairly predictable, I enjoyed it well enough.  I don't get why the sword being broken mattered in the first place ("What will the people think?!" Um, who cares?  And why??), but that's typical of the crazy found in Once's villains.  Poor, poor Guinevere.  I do kind of like the idea of Camelot being an illusion, essentially.  "Fixed" but not really fixed.

[YaddaYadda]

I know Kay is a petulant loudmouth punk, but OUAT already killed him. Was it necessary to have flashbacks to him being a one-note bully too? I mean... he WAS loyal to Arthur and Camelot for all his flaws. What am I saying? Everyone from Camelot, especially Arthur, is basically awful. (Possible exception of Lancelot.)

 

I think you're thinking of Percival who was the one loyal to Arthur. Kay is the one who went poof after he tried to pull Excalibur from the stone.

 

Arthur also really hates Merlin. He wants to run him through with the sword, which I really, really don't blame him for. Arthur has been fucked over by Merlin and his prophecy. The rest is obviously his own actions which he needs to own up to.

 

So I guess Gwen gives Rumple the gauntlet in exchange for the sands of Avalon. I'm assuming that was the price. He told Belle that things didn't go well for Camelot afterwards when he got back to his castle.

 

Timeline wise...yeah, Adam's double speak...this happened before the Queens of Darkness kidnapped Belle and forced him to give up the gauntlet, which happened AFTER he went to steal the pre-Dark Curse and left them to be killed by Chernabog.

 

I know I'm about to lose sleep over this. Real life isn't enough!

 

Thanks Adam!

[OnceUponAJen]

Poor Merida.....she's the one who gets to work on hero Rumple. I know I wouldn't want that job.

[mjgchick]

She's this yrs Anna except being forced to do it. Anna's mini crush on David is why she helped him.

 

Guinevere and Lancelot reminded me of early Captain Swan which now makes me sad that Gwen's just Arthur's prisoner. Also Emma and Hook totally bang. Emma is such a sap with the flower.

Edited October 19, 2015 by mjgchick

[YaddaYadda]

Also Emma and Hook totally bang.

 

I don't think the whole "now that we're finally alone" left much doubt. Unless you're stubborn and you want proof, like Liv Moore (iZombie).

[Rumsy4]

It wasn't a bad episode. It did have some good twists and turns, and some lovely Captain Swan moments.

 

So... almost EVERYTHING about Camelot is fake. Reminds of the story The Enchanted Castle where everything made using a magical ring's power is undone in the end. I bet when Arthur eventually returns to Camelot after all these shenanigans are done, he will have to rebuild his kingdom from scratch for real this time.

I'm not at all in favor of yet another rapey relationship being portrayed in the show. Why, writers?? Why do this to Arthur?? Ugh...

 

At least Lancelot is not dead yet. But I have a feeling he's going to be killed off again.

 

Snowing pulled the long con on Arthur, only to be defeated at the last minute. Poor them.

 

The Gwen actress is pretty so-so. She can't carry a scene.

 

I liked that we got to see inside the Dark Vault, and got some continuity on how Rumple got the Gauntlet. What was the swirly black goo? A little cousin of the big bad Darkness?

 

All the Captain Swan scenes were amazing! Emma and Killian finding out about Henry's little crush was very sweet. hehe The romantic moment in the field of roses was so lovely!

 

Merida is back.  Yay?

[Randomosity]

 Unless you're stubborn and you want proof

 

Proof would be nice... I didn't turn the tv off immediately and caught the first scene of "Blood and Oil," which happened to be two sweaty people rolling around in bed. I actually said out loud to the empty room, "Now why can't Hook and Emma do that?"  (Yes, I know the timeslot and Disney probably play a role in not getting anything smutty, but even syrupy sweet Snowing were shown in bed getting frisky at least once...)

 

If we assume CS hadn't gotten down to business prior to this episode, do we think he would with the Darkness making it a menage-a-trois?

[CalamityBoPeep]

 

If we assume CS hadn't gotten down to business prior to this episode, do we think he would with the Darkness making it a menage-a-trois?

 

I figure he was just making more of an effort to keep her attention.  IYKWIM,AITYD...

 

After all, he confirmed, with the "riding" that when she's hyper focused on him, with her heart racing, Rumple's nowhere to be found. :-)

 

But yeah... proof would have been very nice, indeed...

Edited October 19, 2015 by CalamityBoPeep

[Panopticon]

I think you're thinking of Percival who was the one loyal to Arthur. Kay is the one who went poof after he tried to pull Excalibur from the stone.

Nope, I meant Kay. In non-OUAT versions of the Arthurian legend, he's generally loyal to Arthur-- even if the loyalty is sometimes begrudging, even if his loud mouth gets everyone in trouble. He's not the most likable or noble of the Knights but he's always been interesting to me. So I didn't love seeing him as a petty kid bully knowing that in the OUAT-verse he never gets any redeeming features because he goes poof. I felt like going poof was enough assassination of what character he has historically had.

Not that this is a big deal overall of course. He's a minor Arthurian character and OUAT has everyone from Camelot dying or being sketchy.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Panopticon

[Mari]

If we assume CS hadn't gotten down to business prior to this episode, do we think he would with the Darkness making it a menage-a-trois?

I think it would depend on which Swan is driving the body, and whether or not Imagined Rumple is in the corner providing commentary.

[Shanna Marie]

They really, really need to come up with another plot device than magically controlling someone. I made a list last season, and now we need to add to it. Plus, yet another ongoing rape of a character by removing their ability to give consent. You'd think by now they'd have figured this out and that the audience sees it a different way than they do. Magical roofies are still roofies.

 

Just when I was about to write David off as a complete moron, he and Snow pull a fast one on Arthur. Too bad they wound up getting brainwashed.

I called David so many names during this episode. I guess I owe him a partial apology. But still partial because telling someone you don't entirely trust all your secrets has got to be one of the dumbest plans ever, and look what it got them. Yeah, they proved that Arthur wasn't to be trusted, but they did it by telling him all the things they shouldn't have wanted to clue an untrustworthy person in on, like all the stuff about Emma being the Dark One and them having the dagger. So now poor Emma is going to come back from her day out with her pirate and find that Arthur knows exactly who and what she is. About the only thing they left out is that she's the real Savior. Maybe they should have baited their trap with something that wasn't true and wasn't a critical piece of information.

 

I loved Hook’s reaction to Henry’s revelation about Violet.

That may have been the highlight of the episode. I hope there are gifsets of that scene. All those facial expressions. The eyebrow running amok.

 

Guinevere is growing up in the exact same place as Arthur and the bullying villager children.  Why do we have three entirely separate accents going on?

Their insanity with accents drives me nuts. If they aren't going to matter, then why don't they cast accent-blind and let everyone just use their native accents? Why did they specify that Arthur had to be British if he was going to be growing up with Americans and a Portuguese girl and they were all going to maintain those same accents as adults, in spite of having grown up in the same place? I'd expected them to use some of the Camelot (the musical) backstory, where Guinevere was an arranged marriage from another land. That would have explained why she was a foreigner.

 

The kid they had as Little Arthur would also have made an amazing young Hook.

 

Also, I just remembered Rumple bringing up Milah. That was creepy.

It's an eerily close parallel. We have an unhappy wife who tells her husband what she needs him to do in order for her to be happy, but he refuses and focuses on his own selfish wishes, so she leaves him for someone who's actually interested. Except Milah got at least a few years of happiness with the other man, only to be killed, while Guinevere didn't get to be with the man who loved her before being enchanted into sticking with her husband.

 

I wonder if Hook and Lancelot are going to end up meeting and getting to compare notes.

[Randomosity]

I figure he was just making more of an effort to keep her attention.  IYKWIM,AITYD...

 

After all, he confirmed, with the "riding" that when she's hyper focused on him, with her heart racing, Rumple's nowhere to be found. :-)

 

But yeah... proof would have been very nice, indeed...

 

Although I'm almost afraid of what it could mean if they are purposely insinuating that they got busy in the field... Dark spawn, anyone? (Yes, I know Zelena already has the knocked up storyline, but it's not like this show is against recycling plot points.)

Imagined Rumple is in the corner providing commentary.

*shudder* Ew.