S06.E01: First Time Again

[riverheightsnancy]

The Wolves are sadistic psychopaths, so it wouldn't surprise me that they are the ones blaring the horn.  After all, they are skilled in herding zombies with their strobe lights and disco music.  Not to mention, they skin and further maim the walkers in grotesque ways.

 

I may have missed it when Noah was introduced, what exactly are the Wolves doing? What is their point? They did try to attack Morgan, do they try to attack alive people, to turn them into Zombies for fun? 

 

I like Morgan, I suppose that is hold-over from the actor when he was on Jericho, one of my favorite shows that got canceled too early IMO. 

[RustbeltWriter]

I don't agree with Rick's plan to lead the quarry walkers away. With that many walkers, and in such various stages of decay, they will be walking at widely varying rates. So the stream of walkers leaving the quarry will be many miles long, and the chances of some/many wandering off approach a certainty. And even if you lead the walkers away 20-25 miles, something could attract their attention and they could start walking back to Alexandria. 

 

I also disagree with those saying they should bomb or burn them in the quarry. That was a pretty impressive scene with all those walkers in the quarry, it was HUGE. Just notice the size of the tractor trailer trucks to get an idea of the scale. To burn all those walkers would have taken incredible amounts of fuel. A tanker truck of gas would be a drop in the bucket. And a quarry is full of rocks, not a lot there inherently to burn. So burning them is impractical.

 

What I would have done is build up an alley leading out of the quarry leading into a closed corral, with doors that could be opened and closed at will. Then let the walkers out in groups of 50-100 at a time, and kill them in the 'corral'. You could make it out of fence and poke the walkers thru the fence ala the prison. Or you could make it of trailer trucks reinforced with the steel sheeting. Then you could walk along the top and stab down at the walkers with spears. Either way it would be safe and under control. After each batch of walkers is killed, you clean out the corral by tossing the bodies back into the quarry. It'd take time, but when  you get the quarry population down to about 20 walkers, leave it be, and use it to again attract the local walkers into the quarry. The quarry has been effective as a lure to walkers and has kept Alexandria safe, so keep it around and functioning. But periodically cull the herd so that it doesn't develop into a catastrophic threat.

 

Great idea. I don't know why it was so important to dismantle the most effective walker trap ever seen on this show. Maybe Rick isn't the guy everyone should just yes to all the time.

[nodorothyparker]

Here's a crazy, unpopular thought that I have - I don't hate the Alexandrians.  I mean if somebody showed up tomorrow looking like CDB claiming that we need to prepare for the apocalypse, we'd put them on a show called Doomsday Preppers and laugh at them.  Like we do at the people on the show Doomsday Preppers.  They haven't experienced it yet.  It wasn't their fault that they got trapped in a bubble of safety.  They have been comfortable, safe and kept their families intact.  It isn't the zombies that made CDB the way they are, it is the losing EVERYTHING and EVERYONE.  Deanna lost her youngest son and husband in the span of a week.  I'm sure she feels alone in that immense grief.  In her town she IS alone.  But ask Maggie what she lost in last month or year.  Ask Sasha. Ask Abraham. Ask Daryl. Ask Carol.  Ask Michonne. Ask Carl.  A week earlier she could have asked Noah.  This show is great for setting up existentialist pondering and I sometimes wonder why we don't encounter more suicides in TWD world. Side note:  I thought FTWD would delve into the psychological aspect of watching and KNOWING that the world is ending.  What I think makes CDB so different and strong, and not one of them can articulate it yet but my guess is that Michonne will be the first to do so, is that these people have the instinct to live even when there is no reason to do so. I've always thought that the one who had it the easiest was Rick - the kids give him strength and the change in Rick comes from finding out what lengths he is willing to go to in order to keep his kids alive.  For the rest of them, I simply don't know.  Rick acting like a drill sergeant  isn't going to make the Alexandrians tough.  Neither is fighting off zombies.  It is when they dying starts and their friends and neighbors are eaten in front of them, or worse those friends and neighbors turn and try to eat them.  The ones that still want to live are the ones worthy of joining our group.  It's a lesson that is learned the hard way and I don't hold it against them that school was out indefinitely due to quarry.  

 

 

I love this post so much I want to have a three-sided affair with it before ultimately making one of my kids shoot it in the head.

 

I don't hate the ASZhats either.  I think they've had the perfect combination of just incredible luck and naivety that they got nearly two extra years of life that really hasn't changed that much.  It's a dichotomy I wish the back half of season 5 had done a better job with:  That neither the ASZ nor our CBD was "wrong" given the very different hands they'd been dealt and both sides had every right to be looking at the other with a fair amount of skepticism and suspicion.  Our group has seen one too many "nice safe" places that have turned out to be run by megalomaniacs or assholes to be openly trusting, while ranting bloody Rick really wasn't making any sort of case for himself why you'd let people who tolerate that sort of thing live next door to you and your children.

 

I'm always a little amazed that our gang is collectively as sane as they are and that more people haven't opted out too.

[JBody]

Here's a crazy, unpopular thought that I have - I don't hate the Alexandrians.  I mean if somebody showed up tomorrow looking like CDB claiming that we need to prepare for the apocalypse, we'd put them on a show called Doomsday Preppers and laugh at them.  Like we do at the people on the show Doomsday Preppers.  They haven't experienced it yet.  It wasn't their fault that they got trapped in a bubble of safety.  They have been comfortable, safe and kept their families intact.  It isn't the zombies that made CDB the way they are, it is the losing EVERYTHING and EVERYONE.  Deanna lost her youngest son and husband in the span of a week.  I'm sure she feels alone in that immense grief.  In her town she IS alone.  But ask Maggie what she lost in last month or year.  Ask Sasha. Ask Abraham. Ask Daryl. Ask Carol.  Ask Michonne. Ask Carl.  A week earlier she could have asked Noah.  This show is great for setting up existentialist pondering and I sometimes wonder why we don't encounter more suicides in TWD world. Side note:  I thought FTWD would delve into the psychological aspect of watching and KNOWING that the world is ending.  What I think makes CDB so different and strong, and not one of them can articulate it yet but my guess is that Michonne will be the first to do so, is that these people have the instinct to live even when there is no reason to do so. I've always thought that the one who had it the easiest was Rick - the kids give him strength and the change in Rick comes from finding out what lengths he is willing to go to in order to keep his kids alive.  For the rest of them, I simply don't know.  Rick acting like a drill sergeant  isn't going to make the Alexandrians tough.  Neither is fighting off zombies.  It is when they dying starts and their friends and neighbors are eaten in front of them, or worse those friends and neighbors turn and try to eat them.  The ones that still want to live are the ones worthy of joining our group.  It's a lesson that is learned the hard way and I don't hold it against them that school was out indefinitely due to quarry.  

 

This is neither crazy nor unpopular, in my world.  It is, in fact, SPOT ON.

 

We're back, baby (and not a moment too soon -- FTWD, looking at you).

 

B&W: not a fan but understood.  On TD Nicotera said they thought of using desaturated vs. saturated but decided against it because their world shouldn't be saturated but I disagree.  I thought it would've been a cool contrast: having the present be dripping with colour and the past be bleached out.  Oh well.

 

Rick is not crazy.  He's an obnoxious asshole, though, which I do not like.  Yes, he's mostly right, but does he has to be such a prick about it?  Don't be rude to Morgan, sir.

 

The Stupid Plan: extremely fucking stupid, and par for CDB.  I think Ghoulina's husband had a better idea, as almost every poster on this thread did (excluding fire or bombs, for obvious reasons).

 

The Horn: I assumed the Unfair Wolves were behind it.  They're around, spying on them: they know Rick and Carl, saw the pics Aaron dropped (last ep last season), they know how simple it would be to kibosh The Stupid Plan.  However, I am also wondering about disaffected little Ron.  As others have pointed out, he knows The Stupid Plan, and that it was Rick's idea, and Rick is the Devil, so...  Little Ron, being sheltered and angsty and all, likely has no idea what he hath wrought, and as this show just adores the Law of Unintended Consequences, I could see this happening.  But I am still leaning on the Unfair Wolves attacking the vulnerable ASZHats  while the fighters are away doing their dry run, and the horn is being blown to further fuck things up, or as a big ass warning from an AZHATs that they are being attacked --Enid, perhaps.  We shall see!

 

I like Heath.  His interaction with Dr. Mullet was absofuckinglutely hilarious!  LOVED it.  I am really started to like Eugene, against my better judgment.  Must be the actor.  When he crashed against the shelving after Carter found him eavesdropping and he looked like he'd peed his pants and blurted out "Hello!" I just laughed.

 

Maggie and Tara: So Tara is one of the most important people in the world to Maggie.  More of the tell, don't show, eh Show?  EYEROLL.

 

Jessie and Rick: I am glad she stuck up for her children.  Rick, seriously, back the fuck off already.  There must be another comely ASZHat lady to get busy with.

 

Morgan and Carol: loved that little interaction.  I don't think he meant to call her out on her fakery, but she seemed to take it that way.  Maybe he was warning her; she should wonder who else isn't fooled by her slipping disguise.

[ghoulina]

I don't know how to feel about the ASZhats. I don't they've been JUST lucky and a bit naive. I think there was a bit of outright denial there. If Aaron and Eric were going out recruiting, Nicholas and Aiden on runs, Heath and whoever scouting - they must have seen SOME bad shit. Even though their little community has been relatively safe, they must know that the rest of the world can get pretty bad. They've lost people out there. Hell, they had a ridiculous "cut and run" policy. Every man for himself! And then they'd have parties with little crab cakes and beer. I don't know, I think they were a bit cowardly and trying hard to pretend the bad stuff wasn't out there, because they thought if they didn't think about it in their little walls it couldn't touch them. 

 

I don't totally hate them, but I was incredibly annoyed by their reluctance to step up and take things more seriously. No arms inside the compound is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard. They're lucky Rick realized the gate had been abandoned and rectified that situation when he did. 

B&W: not a fan but understood.  On TD Nicotera said they thought of using desaturated vs. saturated but decided against it because their world shouldn't be saturated but I disagree.  I thought it would've been a cool contrast: having the present be dripping with colour and the past be bleached out.  Oh well.

 

I actually thought that idea sounded really cool too, and was kind of annoyed that he mentioned it. Ha

[CletusMusashi]

Was the flaw in the plan that they did it on Tuesday morning?  That's when tornado sirens are tested around here. j/k

If it was Tuesday, perhaps Mrs. Niedermeyer was using the horn to announce that her new pasta maker works.

[riverheightsnancy]

I cannot recall, but I would love a character on the show to have been a hardcore prepper. I would be curious how they fared and if the prepping helped them or gave them a false sense of security. It would be cool if the group stumbled upon a prepper community and they were doing pretty good. Maybe in future shows we might actually see enclaves of extremist groups or something like that. 

[ghoulina]

I cannot recall, but I would love a character on the show to have been a hardcore prepper. I would be curious how they fared and if the prepping helped them or gave them a false sense of security. It would be cool if the group stumbled upon a prepper community and they were doing pretty good. Maybe in future shows we might actually see enclaves of extremist groups or something like that.

 

I agree! I would love to see that. That's a real segment of society that exists. My husband and I are kind of preppers. We're not as extreme as the people on those shows, but we're fairly well "prepared". I think Ed was maybe, sort of supposed to be a "survivalist" type. Didn't Carol say something to that effect when mentioning the MREs, that Ed subsequently refused to share? But, of course, they had to make him into a woman-beating asshole as well....

[nodorothyparker]

I think you're absolutely right that the ASZ in general has had more than a healthy dose of denial thrown into the mix.  But you can kind of see why.  Because they did have people who went on runs for a particular kind of tea and pasta makers, their world really hadn't changed all that much if you just ignore that big metal wall at the end of the street that keeps the flesh-eating monsters out.  A lot of their every man for themselves and see no evil policies aren't really that different than how much of society behaves in our current zombie-free world, so an argument can be made that it was just a carryover.  It only looks jarring in comparison to the lengths we've seen our gang go to to keep each other safe and alive.

 

Sasha and Tyreese initially survived because their neighbor was a prepper with a stockpile.  They tell the story when we first meet them in season 3.  Apparently he wasn't a hardcore 20 years of soup in the basement Doomsday Prepper level prepper though because the supplies eventually did run out and they did then have to venture out into the world.

Edited October 13, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[Anela]

The thing is that the Wolves are bringing their own herd.  When the episode started I thought that the quarry herd was theirs.

 

Here's a crazy, unpopular thought that I have - I don't hate the Alexandrians.  I mean if somebody showed up tomorrow looking like CDB claiming that we need to prepare for the apocalypse, we'd put them on a show called Doomsday Preppers and laugh at them.  Like we do at the people on the show Doomsday Preppers.  They haven't experienced it yet.  It wasn't their fault that they got trapped in a bubble of safety.  They have been comfortable, safe and kept their families intact.  It isn't the zombies that made CDB the way they are, it is the losing EVERYTHING and EVERYONE.  Deanna lost her youngest son and husband in the span of a week.  I'm sure she feels alone in that immense grief.  In her town she IS alone.  But ask Maggie what she lost in last month or year.  Ask Sasha. Ask Abraham. Ask Daryl. Ask Carol.  Ask Michonne. Ask Carl.  A week earlier she could have asked Noah.  This show is great for setting up existentialist pondering and I sometimes wonder why we don't encounter more suicides in TWD world. Side note:  I thought FTWD would delve into the psychological aspect of watching and KNOWING that the world is ending.  What I think makes CDB so different and strong, and not one of them can articulate it yet but my guess is that Michonne will be the first to do so, is that these people have the instinct to live even when there is no reason to do so. I've always thought that the one who had it the easiest was Rick - the kids give him strength and the change in Rick comes from finding out what lengths he is willing to go to in order to keep his kids alive.  For the rest of them, I simply don't know.  Rick acting like a drill sergeant  isn't going to make the Alexandrians tough.  Neither is fighting off zombies.  It is when they dying starts and their friends and neighbors are eaten in front of them, or worse those friends and neighbors turn and try to eat them.  The ones that still want to live are the ones worthy of joining our group.  It's a lesson that is learned the hard way and I don't hold it against them that school was out indefinitely due to quarry.  

 

Her name is Rosita.  And she's beautiful.  And tough and has a mind of her own.  In case you missed it, she's been nursing Tara back to health, helping Michonne help Sasha, fighting zombies when needed, and sexing Abraham when needed.  Perhaps you blinked because all of that took up a cumulative 5 minutes of the entire last season.  I think you'd really like her if those damn racist ass showrunners would give her some screen time!  (Ok, I don't REALLY think that they are racist, but they are doing a disservice to the show's sole Latina.)

 

She's apparently teaching people to defend themselves, as well - at least Jessie and her sons. 

 

If it was Tuesday, perhaps Mrs. Niedermeyer was using the horn to announce that her new pasta maker works.

haha! I was wondering if she had received a pasta maker, by now. 

 

It's a shame these people didn't get to meet the Rick from season 2 - he was the one respecting Hershel and the others' wishes, or doing his best to. 

I also thought about that survival instinct that someone mentioned up the page here. I don't know if I have it. Maybe I'd surprise myself, but I think I'd be more like the new people. 

[Ocean Chick]

I cannot recall, but I would love a character on the show to have been a hardcore prepper. I would be curious how they fared and if the prepping helped them or gave them a false sense of security. It would be cool if the group stumbled upon a prepper community and they were doing pretty good. Maybe in future shows we might actually see enclaves of extremist groups or something like that. 

 

Tyreese and Sasha's neighbor was a hard-core prepper.  They hid out in his bunker for months, eating the food he'd stored up, before venturing out.  Obviously the guy didn't make it to his OWN bunker, so he must of bit it (pun intended) before he could get there.

 

I don't think the horn was being blown by anyone in ASZ, unless they were trying to call the rest of the group back to help them after they were attacked by the Unfair Wolves.  After all, the great Zombie Walk of Shame was supposed to have happened the NEXT day, not that day.  No one at ASZ could possibly know that the truck had fallen and the walkers were on the move.  So either the wolves are blowing the horn in order to herd their OWN herd of walkers around ASZ, or someone inside ASZ is blowing the horn looking for help from outside. 

[Boofish]

Dear Horn Blower

 

I hope Rick still has that machete with the red handle

[Timetoread]

I agree! I would love to see that. That's a real segment of society that exists. My husband and I are kind of preppers. We're not as extreme as the people on those shows, but we're fairly well "prepared". I think Ed was maybe, sort of supposed to be a "survivalist" type. Didn't Carol say something to that effect when mentioning the MREs, that Ed subsequently refused to share? But, of course, they had to make him into a woman-beating asshole as well....

 

I'd love to see that as well.  I'm a prepper too - not a crazy doomsday type with 20 years of freeze dried food - but I am prepared and am knowledgeable about a lot of it. I would love to see how that plays out on a show like this because I have a theory in my head and I'd like to see if others feel the same way.  The only talk of prepping in this show was that Sasha and Tyrese holed up for a while in their neighbor's bunker and he was a prepper. 

 

ETA:  Ocean Chick you beat me to it!  Sorry to have posted redundancy.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Timetoread

[Rosieroo]

 

I'm finding it harder and harder to dislike Eugene.  The character is still loathsome but Josh does such a great job playing him.

Welcome aboard.  I have loved Eugene since we first saw his pudgy little  "smarter-than-you-just-ask-him" face and fantabulous mullet. 

[Caelicola]

I have gotten to the point where I don't hate -most- Alexandrians either, I even outright like some of them, I'm just increasingly frustrated by their general incompetence.

What are they good at? I mean, Reg was good at building walls, but now he's dead.

Deanna is good at poker, apparently, and fat lot of good that did her in reading through FPP's bullshit.

Pete was good at drinking and surgery, which is an alarming combination, and at beating his wife, which just no.

They're not good at recruiting new people; Eric got incapacitated by an unmoving truck and Aaron got flattened in a single punch by Rick.

They're not good at scouting the areas around the ASZ; they let thousands of walkers pile up in a quarry nearby, tied another to a tree to teach it a lesson.

They're not good at going on runs and not abandoning their companions to their grisly death.

They're not good at conspiring, they got snuck on by freakin' Eugene, of all people.

They're not even good at making cookies, seeing as Carol's rocked everyone's world and shocked them with the daring use of applesauce.

I guess they're very good at hoarding helium, since they seem to have a baffling amount of balloons floating around. Jessie is good at cutting hair and making weird owl statues. And Olivia is the most useful of all, she's good at making pickles and curing meat.

I'd be way more patient with them if this wasn't season 6, year almost two of the Zombie Apocalypse. Seriously, at some point you have to open your eyes to the world around you and stop burying your head in the sand leaving your ass completely uncovered.

[peach]

They are also super terrible at security.  They discovered Rick had a pilfered gun, while he waved it around at them, but it never occurred to them to see if any more were missing.  Or they don't even know how many have in the first place. 

 

I also laughed back when Rick's gang turned in their weapons at the gate, and all laid them down on the cart, pointing directly at Olivia, who then pulled the cart backwards over rough ground with loaded weapons facing her.  Derp.  (Then again, that's typical Hollywood gun handling.)

[Caelicola]

They never found out Carol sneaked another quarter of chocolate, either! In the ZA, my priorities would definitely be keeping an eye on the guns and on the chocolate.

[rab01]

There are a lot of interesting alternative ideas in this thread for ways to deal with the walkers in the quarry and a bunch of counterarguments to all of them so I'm going to give the characters the benefit of the doubt that alternative plans were shot down for reasons not all shown on-screen (since they did show some of the pluses and minuses discussion and a time lapse, it's reasonable to guess there was more of it).  In the end, those alternative possibilities couldn't have helped because the truck fell and the walkers broke containment before Rick's group moved anything.  That means that they had tens of thousands of walkers within a brief walking distance of Alexandria regardless of anything that CDB did or didn't do.

 

But if the show is really about the people (which I think it is) boy did they give us a ton of character moments -- FPP trying to volunteer and being immediately shot down; Michonne and Morgan chatting about protein bars while awaiting a huge herd of walkers; Rick being right about saving the kid's life and the lessons the kid still needs to learn and Jesse being right that Rick can't be the guy who says it. Carol pretending to be meek to support Rick in the meeting; Every interaction between Morgan and Rick that did not include the phrase "I know you"; and Daryl may have only had three lines but he put them to good use.

 

I particularly liked the subtext of the RIck/Jesse interaction and the Rick/Daryl interaction. Rick wants to be with Jesse, which means that he thinks he's going to have to replace her kids' dad. He CAN'T do that because he's the one who pulled the trigger on their father. Jesse speaking up to  Rick to defend what her son needs and also so as to try to not be the same person who married porchdick in the first place...There's a lot of extra freight on that conversation. 

 

As for Rick and Daryl, I think the reason they disagreed is that Rick doesn't think that he's a good man anymore. Rick thinks that he just does what is necessary and that so will anyone else. Everyone who they find is not already bonded to them is thus are either sheep or a threat (cattle or butcher in Terminus parlance).  Daryl however knows that there are things that he isn't willing to do to survive and believes that Rick is still fundamentally moral so that they have a chance to find other people like themselves out there. For what it's worth, I agree with Daryl that most of CDB are good people and so are most of the ASZhats and that so is Rick. So, I'm on Daryl's side that other survivors may often be threats but that isn't all that's out there.

Edited October 13, 2015 by rab01

[peach]

I know this was talked about a great deal last season, and there was a wide difference of opinion, but this is something I really noticed in this episode: Yes, PorchDick started the fight with Rick, but Rick, being Rick, carried the fight TOO far. (And Michonne had to knock him out.) Just like when he pulled the gun on Carter in this last episode when he caught them conspiring. (And Daryl had to pull him back.) Think about what Jessie and Ron see in Rick: they see the same "anger management' issues that their husband/father had. And maybe what they see is even worse. (Obviously, Rick has never hit them, but his attitude can get obnoxious/self-righteous real quick.)

 

Now, I'm not arguing that Rick is wrong, per se. It is a different world out there, and he knows it, and he knows how to handle it. But for most people -- like Jessie, Ron and nearly all the others in Alexandria -- they don't. He needs to dial down the "crazy-Rick." But, of course, he can't. Which is why so many of us love the crazy Rick.  It's a conundrum. 

 

Yes, but my point was that I didn't think Jessie seemed afraid of him at all.  She confidently told him to back off.  He looked slightly crushed, but he didn't go all Shane, and start mouth breathing about how he saved her and say, You're a broken woman with a weak boy.  lol

 

Also, Michonne knocked him out to stop his wild-eyed soliloquy.  He was done punching Pete, IIRC.  And Carter had a gun in poor Eugene's face.

 

I think the show dropped the ball a bit on not making the Pete situation more dire in the moment.  Jessie seemed okay enough for everyone to pretend it was fine.  They could have at least showed bruises she was trying to hide, something simple like that.  Or they could have developed the ethics dilemma of needing a doctor.  It just felt way too rushed.  But there are times when you have to take the show at face value.  They meant to communicate that it was a desperate situation, whether it worked fully on screen or not.

Edited October 13, 2015 by peach

[Boofish]

They are good at watching people. Eric snuck right up on Maggie and Sasha. Daryl made the Starbucks Night Crew at Terminus the first night they were followed

 

They are good at realizing they all suck

 

They are good at complaining while not presenting a better plan

 

They are good at collecting state license plates

 

Terrible at job assignments (I like in charge of guns and chocolate lady but I'm sorry she seems like the most incompetent gun handler inside those walls)

 

I agree there are a few of them that I like. I really liked Reg. I also like Toban, Francine, Heath, Aaron, Eric, random old people who love Judith, P.D. Jr. with the blond bowl cut, in charge of guns and chocolate lady and 2 random people who were nice to Eugene at the gate

[JackONeill]

Peach-

 

I agree that this is one of many plot points (and pieces of character development) that didn't get the proper treatment, or the proper amount of time, although it could be argued it may not have even had to be in the story line at all (especially if the writers couldn't do it justice). Look at the firestorm that developed on this board last season during these episodes. Abuse is a tough subject to deal with (and I mean that without the understatement that seems to be attached to those words).

 

I just think the writers bit off more than they could handle. But, I think, as far as the show, we're over the "rough patch." It could be Jesse doesn't even make it past the next episode (and I'm not saying how I feel about that, except to say, if she doesn't then why the hell have we bothered with the plot at all).

 

But another point: I do think Rick goes nuts a little too quickly, and a little too far. But I've always appreciated that. Look, if I needed a buddy to walk through a world of Walkers, I couldn't think of better person than Rick Grimes. (A close second would be Daryl, but the problem there is I can only think of a few positive adjectives for opossum stew.)

[Ottis]

Here is what I hate about the end of this episode; Now we are almost certainly going to have to endure at least one episode (please, not more) of all the people in the same place fending off zombie attacks. It will be kind of like season one again. And I have no interest in reliving season one. Let's move forward.

 

You know how I identify with Rick? Not as a ZA survivor, but as an office worker who finally has a good enough reason to dispense with the nicey nicey "teamwork" stuff with people who are idiots or get in the way. The man has had enough. And he doesn't care who knows it. I get it.

 

The problem is, that's one thing in an office, it's another when it is in a ZA world. There is a fine line between wanting the best for everyone through tough love, and being a dictator. I don't know what the show is trying to prove to us through Rick's behavior. It appears that Rick's rationale is correct at its core but he has taken it to a highly questionable level. Does it continue, or does he reach a different understanding?

[peach]

Peach-

 

I agree that this is one of many plot points (and pieces of character development) that didn't get the proper treatment, or the proper amount of time, although it could be argued it may not have even had to be in the story line at all (especially if the writers couldn't do it justice).

 

I just think the writers bit off more than they could handle.

 

But another point: I do think Rick goes nuts a little too quickly, and a little too far. But I've always appreciated that. Look, if I needed a buddy to walk through a world of Walkers, I couldn't think of better person than Rick Grimes. (A close second would be Daryl, but the problem there is I can only think of a few positive adjectives for opossum stew.)

 

I know Jessie is from the comics, but I don't know how much they brought over into the show.  So it may just have not fit/translated quite well.  But Pete's el deado so we can move on. 

 

Totally agree with you.  I am Team Rick.  It's the ZA.  Shoot first, ask questions later.  ha.  Also, I find Rick to really be remarkably NOT crazy after season 5.  Moody?  Irritable?  Sure.  But not necessarily crazy.  lol

You know how I identify with Rick? Not as a ZA survivor, but as an office worker who finally has a good enough reason to dispense with the nicey nicey "teamwork" stuff with people who are idiots or get in the way. The man has had enough. And he doesn't care who knows it. I get it.

 

The problem is, that's one thing in an office, it's another when it is in a ZA world. There is a fine line between wanting the best for everyone through tough love, and being a dictator. I don't know what the show is trying to prove to us through Rick's behavior. It appears that Rick's rationale is correct at its core but he has taken it to a highly questionable level. Does it continue, or does he reach a different understanding?

 

I don't think the current situation means Rick actually wants to be a dictator.  I think AFTER they have decent security, he'd be a lot more willing to ease up.  But they don't have time for a big learning curve for defending themselves.  He thinks they are on borrowed time to get fortified.  Then they can chit chat at bonfires about preferred systems of government.  At the prison, he wasn't interested AT ALL in running the day to day.  But when it comes to life-saving, he's not going to waste time building a consensus. 

Also, I liked how Rick's talk with Morgan revealed how he's become more decisive.  For so, SO long, he agonized about making mistakes, because somebody could get killed.  Now he's finally fully accepted that people are going to die no matter what. So take the best action you know to take, to save as many as you can.  I'm not saying he's always taking the best action, but it's the best he knows.

[GodsBeloved]

It's the ZA.  Shoot first, ask questions later.  ha.  

I wonder if the show will ever have the guts to have Rick shoot first then find out he was totally wrong.

[peach]

I wonder if the show will ever have the guts to have Rick shoot first then find out he was totally wrong.

 

Well, I was just being facetious.  I don't think Rick has ever actually shot first, and asked questions later.  He wasn't guessing about Pete.  He shot him after he burst into a group of unarmed people wielding a sword and murdering someone,  and even then it was after he got the go ahead from Deanna.  Extreme, yes. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by peach

[Bad Example]

I'm always a little amazed that our gang is collectively as sane as they are and that more people haven't opted out too.

 

I just figured that those who had the opt-out mindset had done so long ago.

 

They never found out Carol sneaked another quarter of chocolate, either! In the ZA, my priorities would definitely be keeping an eye on the guns and on the chocolate.

And not necessarily in that order...  

(which is why I'm likely Walker Chow)

[Boofish]

I call Rick's style "The Governor Effect" Every time he let an enemy be it has cost him something. It really started with the Andrew in the prison but I think he thought was an isolated incident. You cannot let a threat roam free. He tried to tell them that at Terminus no one listened and look where that got them. There will be causalities not a lot can be done to avoid that. But if I ran across a man in a ZA with very little supplies and not a lot of ammo but had a healthy baby, a teenager, a priest and 2 people who don't even need a gun - YEAH I'm following that guy because his survival skills are on point

[peach]

. But if I ran across a man in a ZA with very little supplies and not a lot of ammo but had a healthy baby, a teenager, a priest and 2 people who don't even need a gun - YEAH I'm following that guy because his survival skills are on point

 

That's what was so irksome about Poker Pro Deanna putting any stock into what a raving idiot like Father Gabriel said.  How the fuck did he make it to ASZ with this band of evil marauders if they were so terrible?  Dragging his sorry ass along "just because" proves their good guy status as well as their survival skills.  (Not to mention they could have easily overpowered Aaron and/or Eric, and come taken that compound by force from the get-go.)

[NorthstarATL]

They never found out Carol sneaked another quarter of chocolate, either! In the ZA, my priorities would definitely be keeping an eye on the guns and on the chocolate.

Obviously Morgan should be in charge of protecting the chocolate, if his keeping track of protein bars is any indication. (though I still say that the subtext to what he and Michonne were talking about was NOT "protein bars"!)

[rab01]

That's what was so irksome about Poker Pro Deanna putting any stock into what a raving idiot like Father Gabriel said.  How the fuck did he make it to ASZ with this band of evil marauders if they were so terrible?  Dragging his sorry ass along "just because" proves their good guy status as well as their survival skills.  (Not to mention they could have easily overpowered Aaron and/or Eric, and come taken that compound by force from the get-go.)

I don't think she believed FPP; he was just saying what she wanted to hear. At that point, the new guys had been involved in getting her son killed and Rick was clearly challenging her authority and possibly trying to take the town from her. (That said, I don't think she's actually good at poker or she never would have said she was good at poker.  She is, however, a politician so she's pretty good at figuring out what people need/want to hear and saying that.)

 

Honestly, I think she's a pretty good mayor of that town. For example, look at the jobs she assigned to CDB -- Rick is a buttinski with cop experience so make him sheriff (because he'd be acting dangerously self-righteous anyway); separate Glenn and Maggie so that one is hostage for the other; put Abe on construction and Daryl with Aaron - it all makes sense (except for allowing Carol to pretend that she's just a happy homemaker but no one's perfect.)  I'd say her biggest mistake was sending Jesse to cut Rick's hair but that's not exactly on the same level as some of the mistakes our CDB crew have made.

[CletusMusashi]

I think Glenn as sheriff and Rick as Run Guy would be a better fit. 

[nachomama]

What I would have done is build up an alley leading out of the quarry leading into a closed corral, with doors that could be opened and closed at will. Then let the walkers out in groups of 50-100 at a time, and kill them in the 'corral'. You could make it out of fence and poke the walkers thru the fence ala the prison. Or you could make it of trailer trucks reinforced with the steel sheeting. Then you could walk along the top and stab down at the walkers with spears. Either way it would be safe and under control. After each batch of walkers is killed, you clean out the corral by tossing the bodies back into the quarry.

Great idea. I don't know why it was so important to dismantle the most effective walker trap ever seen on this show. Maybe Rick isn't the guy everyone should just yes to all the time.

I would add to that plan, open the doors and let out 50-100 and stampede them right over the cliff, Tremors style. In limited numbers you could make sure they're brains get squished at the bottom or poke the wigglers.

[peach]

Rick should be in charge of external security, and yes, let Glenn be sheriff.  He's a people person.  Rick is a warrior now, not a peacekeeper.  And Michonne can be Rick's warrior partner (tasked with keeping control of him).

Edited October 13, 2015 by peach

[morgankobi]

They never found out Carol sneaked another quarter of chocolate, either! In the ZA, my priorities would definitely be keeping an eye on the guns and on the chocolate.

 

Strike that. Reverse it.

[Captain Asshat]

I have gotten to the point where I don't hate -most- Alexandrians either, I even outright like some of them, I'm just increasingly frustrated by their general incompetence.

What are they good at? I mean, Reg was good at building walls, but now he's dead.

<list of things they suck at snipped>

 

OK, I am willing to give them a pass on some of this. Why? They haven't *had* to become good at anything yet. They've been safely ensconced inside secure walls since this thing began. They haven't had to learn survival or zombie hunting techniques. Remember S1 Carol? She freakin' did laundry and cooked for roughly two seasons. She's only alive because of circumstance that landed her and her family with CDB, and her ability to adapt and learn to defend herself. She didn't learn the latter until S3 when it became obvious at the prison that everyone who could fight, had to fight if/when the time came. I liken the Alexandrians to the people of Woodbury who also had no skills, yet they learned and fought eventually. The everyman in this series starts from somewhere and either adapts or dies.

 

Alexandrians are just your stereotypical, upper-middle-class suburbanites who are just fine being protected. Those who go (went) out on runs were lucky, because they never had to face a real herd. Why? We learned why in 6.1. They developed a false sense of bravado from encountering only minimal numbers of walkers at any given time. Aaron was flattened by a single punch, because...yeah, most of us would be, especially if we were expecting a totally different reaction and not braced for a fight. Aaron was expecting a weary band people to be thankful for a refuge. He wasn't expecting a weary, paranoid band of people who'd just experienced devastating losses at the hands of people (at Terminus and the hospital) who appeared to be benevolent...just like Aaron appeared. If Aaron was truly inept, I doubt Daryl would go on recruiting runs with him.

 

Rick does seem full of crazy, but he's right. CDB should teach Alexandrians how to defend their community. I don't think they're inept or bad at things. They just don't yet know how to *do* things. They're naive, and horribly late to the party, and they need a ZA crash course. I think they'll be no different from the Woodbury group. Some will rise to the challenge, others? Zombie chow.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Captain Asshat

[morgankobi]

The horn is too loud and too far away, I believe, to be a car horn. I've seen some suggest a semi-truck or an air horn, but maybe it's a boat...say, a yacht?  :)

(yes, I know, disregard geography)

Edited October 13, 2015 by morgankobi

[JBody]

Also, I really kinda dug the trunk camera POV from douchebag Pete's bodybag.  This was a weird call back to Randall's trunk camera POV (S2, 18 Miles Out). 

 

Here we have Rick and Morgan, framed by the trunk, and back then we had the same shot with Shane and Rick, framed by the trunk.

 

Just made me think of how much has changed (but has it really?!? and so on and so forth). 

[Nashville]

Me too. 

I agree. I didn't get why Rick had a stick up his butt about burying the guy with the others. Doing that had nothing to do with surviving so he couldn't use that excuse.

I thought that was more about sending a message to the community; screw up bad enough, and even your body won't have a home here.

  

Little Ron, being sheltered and angsty and all, likely has no idea what he hath wrought, and as this show just adores the Law of Unintended Consequences, I could see this happening.  But I am still leaning on the Unfair Wolves attacking the vulnerable ASZHats  while the fighters are away doing their dry run, and the horn is being blown to further fuck things up, or as a big ass warning from an AZHATs that they are being attacked --Enid, perhaps.  We shall see!

 

The W00ooo00lf attack notion has strong merit as well. I'm feeling an anticipation for next Sunday I haven't felt in months.

Jessie and Rick: I am glad she stuck up for her children.  Rick, seriously, back the fuck off already.  There must be another comely ASZHat lady to get busy with.

I nominate Mrs. Neudermeyer; the energies she's diverting to her pasta obsessions would seem to indicate Mr. Neudermeyer, if he's still in the picture, obviously isn't doing something right. Bet she'd be fairly itching to whip up a batch of Rickatoni al dente. ;>

[rab01]

Rick should be in charge of external security, and yes, let Glenn be sheriff.  He's a people person.  Rick is a warrior now, not a peacekeeper.  And Michonne can be Rick's warrior partner (tasked with keeping control of him).

When you have a functioning unit, absolutely, When trying to first integrate CDB into your town? Maybe not. Give their leader the highest sounding post you can find because co-opting him is priority one or nothing else works. Getting the rest of his group integrated as seconds to AZshats, is the next highest priority, so Abraham was second to Tobin; Glenn was second to her son; Maggie and Rick were second to Deanna ... Rick was never gonna take orders from her son so he can't be the guy who goes on runs.  it all makes sense until the rubber hits the pavement and the CDB people are all astronomically more qualified than their nominal superiors. That said, she totally screwed up by not briefing Rick beforehand on trouble spots in her community before sending him on patrol but that leads to the question of how much information you give to someone you don't totally trust. In the end, if she'd been omniscient she probably would have put Rick under Reg on the job of strengthening the defenses. 

[Gentian root]

The horn is too loud and too far away, I believe, to be a car horn. I've seen some suggest a semi-truck or an air horn, but maybe it's a boat...say, a yacht?  :)

(yes, I know, disregard geography)

Alexandria is right on the Potomac across from DC, so a yacht is quite feasible. 

I lived there 20+ years ago and there wasn't as much woodland as we've seen on the show.  And no quarries whatsoever.

[peach]

 That said, she totally screwed up by not briefing Rick beforehand on trouble spots in her community before sending him on patrol but that leads to the question of how much information you give to someone you don't totally trust. In the end, if she'd been omniscient she probably would have put Rick under Reg on the job of strengthening the defenses. 

 

It's too bad.  Rick and Reg could have gotten a lot of stuff and thangs done. 

 

Deanna also kinda screwed up by just saying, here's a uniform, go be a "constable."  "Where you find a conflict, solve it."  Okay!  BLAM!

 

This situation is more akin to being a Texas Ranger in the wild west, where you ARE the law.  Deanna wanted to think it was Mayberry, only with a wife beater we don't talk about.  Anyway, live and learn.  Or die and learn, as is more likely.

[Yolapukka]

 

That's what was so irksome about Poker Pro Deanna putting any stock into what a raving idiot like Father Gabriel said.  How the fuck did he make it to ASZ with this band of evil marauders if they were so terrible?

 

I tended to read that as her believing him about as far as she could throw him but, it also coincided with what was useful to her when she felt Rick was not a person she could control or guide, so she put his words to use when she decided Rick was a threat to the stability of the community according to her notions of her own leadership.

[Ottis]

Alexandria is right on the Potomac across from DC, so a yacht is quite feasible.

I lived there 20+ years ago and there wasn't as much woodland as we've seen on the show.  And no quarries whatsoever.

 

 

I was just there a couple of months ago for a week, staying in Old Town. I have no idea where a quarry could be that is close to Alexandria, but then I was on the Potomac River side of it. Maybe on the far west end? I would love to know where in Alexandria they are supposed to be. The roads on the map seem to be in a sparsely populated area, so sparse i thought they were still in Georgia for half the episode before remembering. I didn't get the impression that Alexandria has any spaces like that. Loudoun County, maybe.

[Boofish]

It all goes back to gum smacking Terminus douche dude. At the end of the day, these are the type of people who save babies. The ASZhats are the type of people who leave a woman to walkers because she fell and couldn't get up fast enough. In all honesty, neither side has a lot of wiggle room to judge

[ghoulina]

They are also super terrible at security.  They discovered Rick had a pilfered gun, while he waved it around at them, but it never occurred to them to see if any more were missing.  Or they don't even know how many have in the first place.

 

Not to mention the freaking gate duty that Spencer abandoned to FPP, of all people!

 

 

 

Totally agree with you.  I am Team Rick.  It's the ZA.  Shoot first, ask questions later.  ha.  Also, I find Rick to really be remarkably NOT crazy after season 5.  Moody?  Irritable?  Sure.  But not necessarily crazy.  lol

 

Agree. He seems to have stepped back from stroking the fence as he listened, longingly, to the walkers outside. HA! No, seriously, I think Rick had a bit of ZA Stockholm Syndrome. He hated the outside world, but it had become all he knew. I think it was terribly hard for him to adjust to the tranquil life inside the walls. I think he's handling it better now. But also, it's possible that the job of going outside the walls and dealing with Quarry-Full-of-Walkers has given him some purpose again. Just sauntering around the streets of ASZ, trying to hunt down those would destroy an owl sculpture wasn't working out for him. 

 

 

 

Well, I was just being facetious.  I don't think Rick has ever actually shot first, and asked questions later.  He wasn't guessing about Pete.  He shot him after he burst into a group of unarmed people wielding a sword and murdering someone,  and even then it was after he got the go ahead from Deanna.  Extreme, yes.

 

Technically he didn't know anything about Tony and Dave, but he still KNEW. He shot based on instinct, and damn if he wasn't right. 

 

 

 

 

The horn is too loud and too far away, I believe, to be a car horn. I've seen some suggest a semi-truck or an air horn, but maybe it's a boat...say, a yacht?  :)

 

Dear God, 

If Madison and Daniel and that entire crew of vile assholes shows up in AS, I will walk off the nearest cliff. Or quarry.

Edited October 13, 2015 by ghoulina

[GreyBunny]

What I would have done is build up an alley leading out of the quarry leading into a closed corral, with doors that could be opened and closed at will. Then let the walkers out in groups of 50-100 at a time, and kill them in the 'corral'. You could make it out of fence and poke the walkers thru the fence ala the prison. Or you could make it of trailer trucks reinforced with the steel sheeting. Then you could walk along the top and stab down at the walkers with spears. Either way it would be safe and under control. After each batch of walkers is killed, you clean out the corral by tossing the bodies back into the quarry.

I would add to that plan, open the doors and let out 50-100 and stampede them right over the cliff, Tremors style. In limited numbers you could make sure they're brains get squished at the bottom or poke the wigglers.

 

Yup, that's what I would have done too.

 

Working from memory it appeared the rock quarry had two entry points, each blocked by 2 semis in a V shape. I would have proposed getting more vehicles (cars, trucks, skateboards if need be) and other heavy obstacles and parking them behind the semis to further reinforce the barriers. The roadway gave way behind one truck but the rest of the road looked intact (intact enough for zillions of walkers to go up for a stroll) so other obstacles farther back along the road should have held up.

 

Working with your idea, they could have built a wall along the access road and force the herd to walk up the hill to a high point and then fall over the edge to their "deaths" back into the quarry. 

 

In Z Nation there's a giant 10 ft wheel of cheese rolling its way through Wisconsin. When it gets to DC, have it roll down the road into the quarry and knock the Z's out.

 

 

 

Dear God, 

If Madison and Daniel and that entire crew of vile assholes shows up in AS, I will walk off the nearest cliff. Or quarry.

 

Oh I agree.  If

Madison, Salazar, Travis and their merry band of morons show up on the mothership show, I hope it's as the first people to get eaten at Terminus.

Edited October 13, 2015 by GreyBunny

[CletusMusashi]

If we're going to anticipate boatloads of characters from other shows, I'm hoping for Abraham Setrakian to kick some ass, The Professor from Gilligan's Island to fix everything, and Mace Tyrell, to annoy the crap out of everybody by singing to them. Oh, and Seamus, from "Family Guy."

Edited October 13, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Raven1707]

The Sunday Cable Ratings are in for "First Time Again":

 

The Season 6 premiere of "The Walking Dead" was down some from the all-time highs of its year-ago debut -- which is not to say it's not still huge, because it is. Sunday's show was the No. 1 show on all of TV for the week with a 7.4 rating in adults 18-49, to go with 14.633 million viewers.

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/10/13/sunday-cable-ratings-oct-11-2015-walking-dead-premiere/477712/

[Helena Dax]

I don't think it's so crazy that Rick's attracted to the only woman he hasn't seen splattered in zombie gore.  Yet.

It's not the first time I read  something  like this and it's funny because I  can't imagine a woman using the  same  logic. I mean, I can't see  Michonne or Carol  finding Rick and the others less atractive than the Alexandria men for those  reasons. Quite the opposite, in fact. I think the women in the group would value the fact that they're brave, decent and competent. Otoh, Jessie's value seems to be symbolic:  she represents innocence,  the past, stuff like that. But that's not real or  solid, just something Rick is projecting in her.

[ChipBach]

Well...

 

If I was going to park all those cars along the road, I would have simply parked them all up and down the ramp to the quarry.  maybe turned several on their ends.  That should have slowed down the heard.  Then, I would have looked for a little C4 or dynamite to blow up both roads to the quarry to prevent escape forever and let it continue to be a giant zombie fly trap forever.  Maybe take some mortar practice in the quarry for the sake of thinning down the herd...

 

Letting them out?  Not my first inclination.  And, as always, the place was effective until the day after they found it...

 

Great episode though...  Looking forward to second guessing the team!