S04.E03: How Can I Help You Say Goodbye

[ElectricBoogaloo]

A second aneurysm leaves Beverly brain dead and Deacon consumed with guilt, while Scarlett is forced to decide whether or not to keep Beverly on life support. Meanwhile, Juliette continues a destructive pattern of erratic behavior, pushing Avery to make the heart-wrenching decision to file for divorce.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVbf5E1rics

[Kathemy]

There isn't a single storyline in this episode that holds my interest. I don't think I'll watch. The Vampire Diaries premieres next Thursday. I think I'll focus on that. At least compared to Nashville that show seems almost realistic.

[anonymiss]

That deluded voiceover in the promo: "You'll be hooked till the very end." Uh-huh.

Edited October 1, 2015 by anonymiss

[Clemgo3165]

I want to see the scenes with Teddy/Maddie/Daphne/Rayna. I like that Maisy's getting some material this year and her story arc rings true to me. I'm curious to find out whether it's just Maddie tearing up the pics or if Daphne is involved too.

 

I want to see Deacon and Scarlett go at it over Bev's death. Scarlett's in the right I think, but I can understand where Deacon is coming from. I'm watching mostly to the two characters an the two actors involved, not because I'm particularly enamored with the storyline - she really shouldn't have died.

 

I have no interest in seeing anymore character assassination of Juliette and I'm especially not interest in seeing Luke take her out on one his patented Nascar jaunts. He's a total jerk and I hope his downfall comes swift and hard.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0UpLa5e8jY

[Soup333]

Well, this was an episode about limbo. 

 

I'm glad Teddy decided to face the consequences of his actions instead of dragging it out for years. At least the girls will have a timeline for when he'll be out. Still won't help with the bullying though. Seemed kinda cruel that the school couldn't be more understanding about the situation. She was being bullied. It wasn't as if she attacked the girl unprovoked. Hope the other girl got in trouble too.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Soup333

[dbell1]

I cried. A few times. Teddy in jail trying to talk to Daphne was a tissue scene. Was that the end of Eric on the show?

And although Claire normally annoys me with her acting, I liked her tonight. Dr. Boyfriend couldn't be with her at the end? Really? Nothing is that important to watch someone you supposedly love walk by with their freaking dying parent and not join them. The hell??

Avery should have signed the papers. And sued for support.

Gunner and his hair continue to annoy, but I laughed at the "I'm the only happy one here?" line.

[NYGirl]

I liked how Rayna handled the Teddy thing.  She was right.  He did do a lot for the girls while she was on the road.

 

I have no words for the Scarlet/Deacon situation because I didn't like the mother at all.  I'm kind of shocked that Scarlet was so emotional over her death given the way she treated her for her whole life.  Deacon definitely does feel guilty.  Scarlet was right to pull the plug.

 

I'm not interested in Will's storyline..ugh.  Poor Will.

 

As far as Juliet one day she's going to realize that she misses them and it's going to be too late.  She's really off the rails.  What she did in that bar was crazy with no security in this day and age.

[Bort]

Yay, Emily is back! I do think (at the very least hope) that she has the sense to not fall for Avery. He's soooo damaged goods right now, not to mention that Juliette would probably set her on fire. Literally.

I can't believe no one went with Scarlett at all when she was disconnecting Beverly from life support. Deacon would rather wallow in guilt and self-pity and I don't know why the hell Doctor Boyfriend couldn't manage to step away from the counter for ten minutes. I was kind of expecting Gunnar to show up but I certainly don't fault him for not going, it wasn't his place. It was Deacon and Doctor Boyfriend who should've been there for her.

[Bringonthedrama]

Emily was half right; Juliette wanted the fantasy of a family. But even aside from any mental health issues, Juliette doesn't want to do the work involved in having a family - compromising with Avery, going to therapy, doing activities that encourage bonding with baby. And now in the preview, she's focused on her career but wants to claw Emily's eyes out over a picture of her in public with Avery and the baby? Ugh. Poor Avery. (JJ is terrific in this role.)

 

It's great to see Daphne get to have genuine emotion about what's going on re: her dad, and not just be part of big sister's storyline. The Rayna-Teddy and girls scenes were well-acted. 

 

I liked Scarlett singing solo and her tearful conversation with Deacon, but just NO to the exes having any 'moments'. 

[TomGirl]

That ending was totally heart wrenching.

[Clemgo3165]

I felt like we missed a scene to connect Maddie's "he's not my father" to the next day's telling him what a great Dad he is. We should have seen that conversation between her and Rayna. And I think too that these two story lines didn't both need to come to a head in the same episode. We see Rayna with Deacon at the beginning and the end and hear how the girls are supporting him, but they couldn't even find the time to give him a hug? And I know Rayna was trying to help the girls, but embezzling and cheating don't make him such a great husband, though maybe he had been before.

I spent most of the ep pretty ticked at Deacon for making it harder than necessary on Scarlett and for not being with her when the life support was pulled. But he totally did me in at the end clutching the pic and the stuffed animal and sobbing in Bev's freshly painted yellow room. And judging from the promo it looks like Maddie walks in on him breaking furniture and now I guess she'll have two losers for fathers???

Maisy hit it out of the park tonight, she was great in all of her scenes, but especially in the first scenes with Teddy. Clare was also terrific tonight. I'm not sure why Scarlett felt she had wasted her time being angry with her Mom since she was kind of a lunatic and abusive, but she hit all the right notes when it comes to making life and death decisions for our loved ones.

Avery should just go ahead and file for divorce, maybe it'll wake Juliette up. Luke wasn't as much of an asshat as I thought he'd be with his talk the next morning...he's still an ass though ;)

Liked the baby passing at the beginning, thought Will should have kept her since he was doing so well. Couldn't believe Gunnar showed up at the hospital just as Scarlett was playing in the chapel. Does he have a tracker on her or what? As hard as it may have been to hear, Caleb was right not to push her in one direction or the other. It needed to be her choice and wouldn't have been ethical for him to jump in on a personal level when he's so involved professionally.

Still shipping Kevin and Will. hope Will finds his foot in soon.

[Bort]

Caleb was right not to push her in one direction or the other. It needed to be her choice and wouldn't have been ethical for him to jump in on a personal level when he's so involved professionally.

Caleb isn't involved anymore. As an oncologist, he was Deacon's doctor for the cancer, but that's gone now and he isn't involved in Beverly's care at all. I didn't really fault him for not wanting to weigh in on what Scarlett should do, although I thought he could've been a tad more nurturing about it. Gunnar managed to accomplish it without seeming like he was keeping her at arms' length, which is a contrast I'm sure was on purpose.

[madam magpie]

Well that was...delightful? I feel so bad for all these actors. They must be exhausted all the time. I really wish this show would let us settle in to some of these stories. Maddie's turnaround was whiplash, though I did chuckle at a tweet Lennon (I think) made about how when Connie lit into them about the pictures they were genuinely afraid of her. Maybe Rayna just scared 'em straight?

I thought Luke, Rayna, and Scarlett handled their respective crises really well, and Deacon handled his really, really poorly. Scarlett is what...25? Her crazy, abusive-but-she-loves-her mother is brain dead and she's the one left to make the choices and all Deacon can do is fight with her and not show up?? I realize he's really upset too, but dang. Grow up, man. I foresee lots of Deacon wallowing in his misery and pushing Rayna, Scarlett, and Maddie away. Greaaaaaaat.

I want to care about Juliet, but this is all so nutso that I can't. I'll just wait for them to fix her and then pretend it never happened.

Avery should leave her.

Was nice to see Emily.

Edited October 8, 2015 by madam magpie

[Sandman]

It's great to see Daphne get to have genuine emotion about what's going on re: her dad, and not just be part of big sister's storyline. The Rayna-Teddy and girls scenes were well-acted. 

 

I liked Scarlett singing solo and her tearful conversation with Deacon, but just NO to the exes having any 'moments'. 

 

I thought all of the storylines were well served in this episode, the Rayna-Teddy scenes with the girls in particular. The showrunners need to give Eric Close meatier storylines. He was so good in the prison visit scenes.

 

I don't mind saying that I found this episode really hard to watch, at the same time, since my own mother had a severe stroke several years ago (though she has recovered to a large extent, and we never had to face the choice of taking her off life support); the scenes of Deacon telling Beverly he was there with her really resonated with me. And as much as I feel Deacon is in a self-destructive pattern we've seen before, Charles Esten is really knocking his scenes out of the park. By the time Deacon told Scarlett "She said she heard me singing to her" I just lost it. I mean full-on ugly-crying time! Nobody really annoyed me this week -- at all! Not even sad-sack Gunnar and his Horrible Hair of Woe! All I kept thinking was "Wow, these people are not fucking around!"

 

Avery's not getting a divorce. Nope. (And that lullaby? Why don't they just knife me?  ::honnnkk::)

Edited October 8, 2015 by Sandman

[Soup333]

I actually think Gunnar is well suited to fatherhood.

 

Juliette did at least look miserable a few times in this episode. Not that it would make a difference to Avery after he sees videos/tweets/pics from her and Luke's night out. Sadly, if he were my friend or relative, I'd be advising him to sign those papers immediately. But that has to be his choice. I'm going to go the madam magpie route and wait until they fix her and then pretend this never happened. I did it before with Kiley/Micah, I guess I can do it again.

 

Me thinks Emily's days of being paid for nothing are soon to come to an end.

[madam magpie]

And I know Rayna was trying to help the girls, but embezzling and cheating don't make him such a great husband, though maybe he had been before.

Actually I liked this about Rayna. Cheating and embezzling were things Teddy did to her and their marriage (well, the cheating), but their relationship was such a disaster from the start that the reasons were probably really complicated. I like that she's always owned up to what Teddy contributed to her and the girls' lives, and that's especially important for Daphne. I mean, if this show had any realism to it, Daphne should feel really confused about her place in the family and what Rayna's relationship with Teddy was. I think Rayna needs to be sure to spin that marriage as something she valued greatly because otherwise it could look like Daphne was the product of some sham, loveless union. Even if that's true (and I don't exactly think it was), no kid needs to know that.

Edited October 8, 2015 by madam magpie

[Soup333]

I laughed when I noticed Luke still has that terrible ball and chain tattoo. Unfortunately, that was one of the only bright spots of this episode.

[Clemgo3165]

Actually I liked this about Rayna. Cheating and embezzling were things Teddy did to her and their marriage (well, the cheating), but their relationship was such a disaster from the start that the reasons were probably really complicated. I like that she's always owned up to what Teddy contributed to her and the girls' lives, and that's especially important for Daphne. I mean, if this show had any realism to it, Daphne should feel really confused about her place in the family and what Rayna's relationship with Teddy was. I think Rayna needs to be sure to spin that marriage as something she valued greatly because otherwise it could look like Daphne was the product of some sham, loveless union. Even if that's true (and I don't exactly think it was), no kid needs to known that.

I don't know. I liked that she tried to make it good for the girls, but the waxing poetic about their great marriage was a bit much for me. I wouldn't have wanted her to get into anything negative there, but he has been a great Dad and the steady one when she was on the road and she could have left it at that. All of that praise made me wonder why they were divorced in the first place and I thought could be even more confusing for Daphne.

[scra22]

I actually think Gunnar is well suited to fatherhood.

 

Juliette did at least look miserable a few times in this episode. Not that it would make a difference to Avery after he sees videos/tweets/pics from her and Luke's night out. Sadly, if he were my friend or relative, I'd be advising him to sign those papers immediately. But that has to be his choice. I'm going to go the madam magpie route and wait until they fix her and then pretend this never happened. I did it before with Kiley/Micah, I guess I can do it again.

 

Me thinks Emily's days of being paid for nothing are soon to come to an end.

 

This episode felt like a waste for the Juliette storyline, she had no progression at all, really. I too will have to pretend this never happened once they fix her. Emily best get to job hunting after what we saw in that promo. And she might also want to get a bodyguard. 

[Evie]

Avery's lawyer - I don't think Avery getting full custody would be that hard.

The ending got to me.

I liked the scenes with Teddy.

[Emily Thrace]

This episode felt like a waste for the Juliette storyline, she had no progression at all, really. I too will have to pretend this never happened once they fix her. Emily best get to job hunting after what we saw in that promo. And she might also want to get a bodyguard. 

Yeah there were definitely some spinning wheels there but I think we got enough motion on the other stories that it was still a great episode. Honestly I kind of like that the show isn't going for the insta-fix with Juliette. Real mental health doesn't work like that I can appreciate the show not waving a magic wand. 

 

I also appreciated the discussion surrounding Will's story this episode. No one side is right and no one side is wrong. Will doesn't want to be a poster boy trailblazer and I don't blame him  I definitely think whatsherface was out of line for expecting him to be one. But Will is gay and he does represent that whether he wants to or not.

[TVFAN]

Unpopular opinion time.  Rayna and Deacon have mad chemistry, but I have always thought they were much better suited to be friends than husband and wife.  "Nashville" started at the end of Teddy and Rayna's marriage, but by all accounts, they were happy for well over a decade.  (Daphne did not simply appear out of thin air.)  

 

Everything Rayna said tonight was true.  Teddy may not have been perfect, but he was a rock for her during the years she was building her career.  And he genuinely loved Maddie as his own.  Even now, he is going to jail rather than take the easy route of turning state's evidence against Tandy, and he made that choice for Rayna and the girls.

 

Someone on the board mentioned last week that Deacon=Juliette and Rayna=Avery.  We are seeing Juliette at her worst, and many people are calling for Avery to dump her.  Deacon created every bit as much chaos in Rayna's life.  We just never saw it because it occurred before the series began.  

 

Teddy may not have been Rayna's grand passion, but she did love him.  There are a million different kinds of romantic love.  Teddy brought her peace, home, and security.  It's still an open question as to whether Deacon will be able to do the same.   

[madam magpie]

I don't know. I liked that she tried to make it good for the girls, but the waxing poetic about their great marriage was a bit much for me. I wouldn't have wanted her to get into anything negative there, but he has been a great Dad and the steady one when she was on the road and she could have left it at that. All of that praise made me wonder why they were divorced in the first place and I thought could be even more confusing for Daphne.

I think divorce can be like that, though, especially one that's fairly amicable. Teddy and Rayna have mostly been portrayed as working together in regard to the kids. I mean...the primary reason the Rayna/Teddy marriage was doomed from day one was because Rayna was still in love with and committed to Deacon, and she was living this twisted lie where she passed off their baby as someone else's. And Teddy was right there in the hole with her. So once you've confronted all that (assuming Rayna has, even though we didn't really see her do it), she can see the rest of it more clearly and favorably. Teddy wasn't really a lousy husband day-to-day. He held their home together while Rayna worked super hard. He was supportive of her career and their family. Etc. That's the story I think Rayna needs to tell Daphne. If the kid asks specific questions, Rayna should answer them honestly. But I don't think that praising Teddy or even saying she loved him is dishonest. It's just one piece of a much larger, complicated picture that there's no way Daphne could understand at the moment.

This is basically akin to Rayna yelling at Maddie about how wanted and loved she was by all three of her parents. It's entirely true, even though it's hard for a kid to grasp. The fallout from the big lie is all on Rayna, honestly, and she needs to be the one who sets the tone for how everything is explained to the kids. I really like that the show is giving her that responsibility, and I think she's handled it mostly pretty well.

Edited October 8, 2015 by madam magpie

[Clemgo3165]

I think divorce can be like that, though, especially one that's fairly amicable. Teddy and Rayna have mostly been portrayed as working together in regard to the kids. I mean...the primary reason the Rayna/Teddy marriage was doomed from day one was because Rayna was still in love with and committed to Deacon, and she was living this twisted lie where she passed off their baby as someone else's. And Teddy was right there in the hole with her. So once you've confronted all that (assuming Rayna has, even though we didn't really see her do it), she can see the rest of it more clearly and favorably. Teddy wasn't really a lousy husband day-to-day. He held their home together while Rayna worked super hard. He was supportive of her career and their family. Etc. That's the story I think Rayna needs to tell Daphne. If the kid asks specific questions, Rayna should answer them honestly. But I don't think that praising Teddy or even saying she loved him is dishonest. It's just one piece of a much larger, complicated picture that there's no way Daphne could understand at the moment.

This is basically akin to Rayna yelling at Maddie about how wanted and loved she was by all three of her parents. It's entirely true, even though it's hard for a kid to grasp. This is all on Rayna, honestly, and she needs to be the one who sets the tone for how everything is explained to the kids. I really like that the show is giving her that responsibility, and I think she's handled it mostly pretty well.

Guess we'll have to agree to kind of disagree on this one. It was just a little over that top for me and came off as not entirely honest. I can see where you're coming from though.

[madam magpie]

Fair enough.

Teddy may not have been Rayna's grand passion, but she did love him. There are a million different kinds of romantic love. Teddy brought her peace, home, and security. It's still an open question as to whether Deacon will be able to do the same.

This is where we really need to see growth in their relationship. I think Deacon brings Rayna tremendous joy, peace, and a sense of home when he's not drunk or, frankly, a dry drunk, which he looks like he's heading for in the preview for next week. Connie does a really nice job of showing how relaxed Rayna is with him; she's open in a way she's not with any of the other characters except the kids. That's why she couldn't ever break from him, I think. When he's present with her, he's everything she wants and needs. I think she sees that pretty clearly now so the growth needs to come from Deacon at this point. Otherwise, yeah, they shouldn't be together. Tonight, he wasn't doing a very good job of being the grown-up, unfortunately. Habits are hard to break, though, so as long as he turns it around, OK.

In other news, did anyone notice that Cadence was a different baby tonight?? She was...right?

Edited October 8, 2015 by madam magpie

[Lillybee]

It looks like Avery washed his hair finally. I am not sure who called Cadence CD, it was either Will or Gunnar and it is a cute nickname.

 

Beverly had the second anurism before she could revert to her nasty self.

 

Will admit it; you are gay, you admitted it, please live with it.

[Artsda]

Teddy could have saved his girls all this pain by turning in Tandy. She's not worth it, and neither is Rayna's company she can barely run. He should have totally turned Tandy in.

 

I loved Luke and Juliette's day off together. Juliette's with the race car driving and concert was actually fun to watch them sing and rock out.

 

I felt for Scarlett, she was raised by some selfish people. She never got to really be the kid with a supportive parent growing up and even know when she needed Deacon to be by her side during such a hard decision and mature decision she had to make. Deacon couldn't be there for her and instead left. Scarlett had to again be the parent/strong one.

[GaT]

An entire episode based around taking Beverley off of life support, Teddy in jail, & Cadence crying is not at all interesting to me.

[CreamedPeas]

Someone said above that Scarlett was over the top with her emotions for a mother who was abusive and mean to her all her life. I think being in that situation makes it even harder. She had just heard her mother apologize for being a terrible parent and immediately, her mother is on life support and basically dead. I can't imagine all of the emotions she would be going through when her mom was taken off life support. And with the finality of death, there can be no more healing with her mom and no more questions answered. IMO, that would be extremely emotional.

[Clemgo3165]

Fair enough.This is where we really need to see growth in their relationship. I think Deacon brings Rayna tremendous joy, peace, and a sense of home when he's not drunk or, frankly, a dry drunk, which he looks like he's heading for in the preview for next week. Connie does a really nice job of showing how relaxed Rayna is with him; she's open in a way she's not with any of the other characters except the kids. That's why she couldn't ever break from him, I think. When he's present with her, he's everything she wants and needs. I think she sees that pretty clearly now so the growth needs to come from Deacon at this point. Otherwise, yeah, they shouldn't be together. Tonight, he wasn't doing a very good job of being the grown-up, unfortunately. Habits are hard to break, though, so as long as he turns it around, OK.

Except for tonight, I think he's done well being the grown up with both Rayna and the kids. He should have been there for Scarlett, no doubt, and it does look like things will get worse before they get better. With all the balls Rayna's been juggling lately I hope he'll be able to be her support when one on them inevitably falls.

[smiley13]

That was a depressing episode on all notes.  Poor Scarlett having to make the call to off Beverly after she finally apologized for being such a crappy Mother was heart wrenching.  I did love the scene of her and Gunnar though.  

 

I get that Deacon is feeling guilty, but screaming at Scarlett who was already in a bad place was out of line.  

 

I felt badly for poor Daphne.  Yes the other kid was being a jerk, but you can't punch someone at school.  I am glad that Rayna facilitated making peace between the girls and their Dad.  Teddy is doing what he is doing for Rayna and the girls, but I guess he has not let Rayna know this.  

 

Why does that baby cry all the time?  I guess so they can drag out Juliette's lullaby and make people think she ever gave a hoot about the kid.  I was hoping Juliette's crazy behavior would cause Luke to tell her to go get help and that he would boot her off of the tour.  Why oh why didn't Avery file those papers so the press could get ahold of the news and have Juliette find out that way since the witch won't take his calls.  

 

Will's story is just not interesting to me.  He is moping around and being a jerk to everyone.  Gunnar is a bright light once again.  

[DeLurker]

I get that Deacon is feeling guilty, but screaming at Scarlett who was already in a bad place was out of line.  

<SNIP>

Why does that baby cry all the time?  I guess so they can drag out Juliette's lullaby and make people think she ever gave a hoot about the kid.  I was hoping Juliette's crazy behavior would cause Luke to tell her to go get help and that he would boot her off of the tour.  Why oh why didn't Avery file those papers so the press could get ahold of the news and have Juliette find out that way since the witch won't take his calls.  

 

Will's story is just not interesting to me.  He is moping around and being a jerk to everyone.  Gunnar is a bright light once again.  

I thought they did a realistic job with Deacon and Scarlett - when families are dealing with big medical crisises (what is the plural?), emotions boil over.  At least in my family they have.  But I was highly amused how they had a piano in the hospital church room - how convenient!

 

Avery did not sign the papers but put them in the drawer so that in an ep or two Juliette will find them when she's looking for something.  I love Emily so I hope they don't make her into a vulture circling the not-quite-dead-yet Avery/Juliette relationship.

 

I like the Will storyline - just wish they would move it forward and have him do something.  Has anyone suggested counseling to Will?  Cause maybe that would help him figure out how to move forward.  Silly me, that would be sensical!

[ramble]

I want to like this show. I like many of the actors, but it just sucks. I whined but stuck around last season, but I'm now done. There's fun soapy goodness & then there's poor writing & bad character development. There's no fun left in this stink bag. The only thing I might miss is listening to the Stella sisters sing. But hey there's YouTube for that. I already ditched Grey's this year & now Nashville. My tv schedule is clearing itself.

[TomGirl]

I don't know if they used a different baby for Cadence, but I do agree that last week's baby was incredibly adorable, and this week's baby was...... just a baby. I did like the nickname "Cady" that Will used, but I guess Avery did not!

[missbonnie]

Someone said above that Scarlett was over the top with her emotions for a mother who was abusive and mean to her all her life. I think being in that situation makes it even harder. She had just heard her mother apologize for being a terrible parent and immediately, her mother is on life support and basically dead. I can't imagine all of the emotions she would be going through when her mom was taken off life support. And with the finality of death, there can be no more healing with her mom and no more questions answered. IMO, that would be extremely emotional.

And you would be right. My mother and I rarely got along, even when I was a little girl. She wasn't heinous to me, it was more of a push pull type of thing between her, my dad and myself. I was the first born child, grandchild and great grandchild so I was absolutely spoiled rotten and I sometimes think that my mom resented it. When my father passed away I remember thinking, well I don't have any parents anymore even though she was still very much alive. It wasn't until the last year of her life (they died 7 years apart) that we finally were able to have some semblance of a relationship. Unfortunately she became terminally ill and ended up on life support. My 3 siblings and I had to make the decision to take her off life support and I can fully appreciate both Scarlett and Deacons sides of this because the day before we did it she demonstrated an involuntary movement and I always wondered if she could hear us and was telling us not to let her go. The guilt of that one thought about drove me crazy until I spoke with a friend who is a long time hospice nurse. The acting in this episode was spot on I thought and while it seemed that others didn't appreciate having an episode revolving around this act, I am thankful that they didn't make it as simple as OK let's just flip the switch in the first 15 minutes. It really is an agonizing decision that I wouldn't wish upon anyone.

Edited October 8, 2015 by missbonnie

[airwair]

It's a sad state of affairs when Scarlett and Gunnar were my favorites of the episode.

[Julie23]

Although this episode was heart-wrenching on all fronts, I think it was very well acted. What I don't want is Deacon falling off the wagon YET AGAIN over his sister's death. We have been down that path too many times already. Don't need to see it again.

I can't believe there was not one person at the bar with a cell Phone recording Juliette. That recording alone whould help Avery get full custody. Seriously, how would any judge in their right mind give a woman-child who has seen her baby all of 3 days in the first three months of her life custody? Avery should file the papers, but get a different lawyer.

I'd like to see more three men and a baby, but without all the crying.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Julie23

[madam magpie]

Except for tonight, I think he's done well being the grown up with both Rayna and the kids. He should have been there for Scarlett, no doubt, and it does look like things will get worse before they get better. With all the balls Rayna's been juggling lately I hope he'll be able to be her support when one on them inevitably falls.

And with the cancer diagnosis. Deacon's go-to life strategy seems to be to bail on people (with booze or without) when things get hard for him to handle. It looks to me like we're watching him work that out, which I think is OK and which I do find interesting, actually. Habits like that are very hard to break. I think bailing on Scarlett was pretty bad, though, like a lot of what he did when he as drunk. It's not unforgivable and he's really suffering too. But she flat-out told him she needed him, and he ignored her...and he's basically the only "parent" she's ever had. I expected he'll feel guilty about that too eventually. Maybe he does already.

I found myself wondering if he'd have done the same thing to Maddie. Would he have walked away from her in a situation like that where he was devastated but so was she, and she really needed him? I mean, what if Rayna died? Would he fall so deep into his own hole that he'd shove Maddie away? I kind of think the answer is yes, which is another reason I can't help but empathize with Teddy, whom I don't even like that much but for whom I think the answer would have always been no.

Edited October 8, 2015 by madam magpie

[Clemgo3165]

I'm not sure that he sees it as bailing on people, I think he's punishing himself for what he believes is his fault. He fully believed that he was to blame for the cancer because of his drinking (and he was, to an extent) and so he thinks he's saving others from the pain and drama by holing up and keeping it to himself. I think he feels equally to blame for Bev's death and that's why he's so ticked at Scarlett - he had convinced himself that she'd be OK if they just waited long enough - she had been before. So when she went against his wishes and ended the life support the only way he could deal with it was by going back to his Nashville house and holing up in her bedroom. He just couldn't be the support Scarlett needed at the time. (This is not to excuse his not being there, he needed to man up in that moment.) 

 

So for me, in essence, I think his go-to life strategy isn't to bail on people per se, but rather to roll himself up into a ball and hole up by himself. I'd love to know where that comes from and maybe we'll see some of that while they're in Natchez.

 

I would hope he wouldn't do the same thing to Maddie, but you never know. And you're right about Teddy, he'd have been there. But Teddy's always been the stronger of the two in that regard. Teddy has other flaws that overwhelm his good-guy status for me though. Both of them are flawed people, just in different ways, but both hurtful.

[candall]

Pro:  I think the whole cancer arc did a good job of showing Scarlett being forced to toughen up and mature.  Pretty sure Original Recipe Scarlett wouldn't have had the strength to withstand Beloved Uncle Deacon pulling out every emotional stop between fury and desperation.

 

Your world adjusts when your last parent goes, so I'd like to see Scarlett step up and become a Highway 65 force to be reckoned with.  Maybe she could reach solid enough ground to lose both mopey Gunnar and Dr. Stability. . .    Ha, as if.

 

Con:  I'm in it for venue and adult soap, not family soap, so the "daughters" segments have always been the least interesting to me.  I keep seeing these appalling commercials with Teresa Guidice's children talking to her on the phone, upset and confused, too young to understand the situation.  Daphne's old enough to punch out her classmates and too old for "Just tell them you didn't do it and come home, Daddy!"  Couldn't care less about Maddie's bifurcated father issues.  (I know, I know, I'm a monster.)

[madam magpie]

So for me, in essence, I think his go-to life strategy isn't to bail on people per se, but rather to roll himself up into a ball and hole up by himself. I'd love to know where that comes from and maybe we'll see some of that while they're in Natchez.

 

Me too. I think this is definitely one place the bailing comes from, though I don't think it's why he didn't show up for Scarlett. To me, he looks mad at her, very disappointed, devastated, and unable (or unwilling...but I think it's less that he doesn't want to and more that he thinks he can't) to put his own deep depression and sadness aside to do what she needs. Personally, I think this has always been Deacon's biggest flaw, it's common in addicts, and it's the one he tries the most to work through. I think he knows he's bailing, actually, but that he thinks the others (Rayna, Maddie, etc.) are better off without him and can survive the bailing more easily than his depression, which isn't actually true for them. The bailing is what really hurts them (Rayna has said as much). I also do think he is working through it. So I don't expect him to start drinking again, though realistically Rayna should fear that. But I do expect him to withdraw...and then come back to Rayna first, and then Scarlett. It'll be interesting to see what happens next week when Maddie sees him lose his shit, too. How he handles that will tell a lot. The "old" way would be for him to send her away and feel guilty that he let her see him that way and think it's best that he keep away from her to "protect" her. The "new" way would be for him to talk to her about it. I hope it's the latter. This show does a lot of things poorly, in my opinion, but when it comes to the alcoholism and how it affects Deacon and his relationships with other people, they usually do a pretty good job, Chip portrays it well, and I find the evolution interesting to watch. That and Connie Britton are the main reasons I stick around.

Edited October 8, 2015 by madam magpie

[ahpny]

Everything Rayna said tonight was true. Teddy may not have been perfect, but he was a rock for her during the years she was building her career. And he genuinely loved Maddie as his own. Even now, he is going to jail rather than take the easy route of turning state's evidence against Tandy, and he made that choice for Rayna and the girls.

 

Why can’t he just tell Rayna he’s in jail only because he took the fall for her sister and causing this flavor of family discord only to avoid another (presumably more serious one)? That pissed me off. I get why he doesn’t need to tell his daughters (at least now), but how much a martyr/wimp does he need to be? Yes, I know his character has consistently been a wimpy door mat of husband, but it still grates.

I get that Deacon is feeling guilty, but screaming at Scarlett who was already in a bad place was out of line.

 

Another thing that grated for me was various characters (so far Rayna and Scarlet) absolving Deacon of any blame. He feels guilty because, he is, in some manner, in fact guilty of contributing to the death of his sister. Yes, no one forced her to donate her kidney, and Deacon has nothing directly to do with any medical errors or random surgical events that led to her death.

But as Deacon has already pointed out, his liver cancer didn’t just magically/tragically appear. He brought it on himself by drinking, which he chose to do and continued to do for decades. He bears responsibly for that. Had he not made those poor decisions repeatedly, it’s at least far less likely that he’d need his sister’s kidney and she’d now be dead.

[madam magpie]

I think Rayna, etc. don't blame Deacon because they don't believe he's to blame. I don't either. Deacon is to blame for his behavior as an alcoholic, but the third- or fourth-hand guilt because a seemingly healthy person died during a medical procedure is the bad luck of the draw. Not to mention that brain aneurysms can happen at any time.

I also don't think Teddy is in jail for some noble quest to save Tandy. He's in jail because he paid off a hooker with city money and then tried to cover it up. That he could have also covered that up by turning in Tandy is irrelevant to me and doesn't make him some kind of hero. It just makes him someone with a conscience. However, facing that and accepting the consequences of it does make him noble, I think.

Edited October 8, 2015 by madam magpie

[Primetimer]

And there's more than one tear-stained goodbye this week.

Read the story

[Sandman]

I think it is Deacon's pattern to retreat when he's in pain or feeling guilty, and I think the idea that he bails on people when they need him isn't necessarily incompatible with calling it an impulse to curl up in a ball in a corner. It's not his intention to bail on people when they need him, but that's effect that Rayna and Scarlett (and Deacon's friends and colleagues, too, most probably) have felt over the years. I exempt Beverly from the general sense of being abandoned by Deacon because from what I can tell, she probably attacked first and made him feel guilty (for not appreciating her, for stealing her career, for not loving her enough or supporting her the right way) before he could ever retreat from her.

[Clemgo3165]

And from what I can tell he never fully retreated from Bev. He made sure she got the mental health care she needed and paid for it, and he paid for Scarlett's college tuition. Who know what else he may have done for them over the years. No, they weren't having family reunions all the time, but many families are broken like that. He was there when she needed him to be.

[Clemgo3165]

It'll be interesting to see what happens next week when Maddie sees him lose his shit, too. How he handles that will tell a lot. The "old" way would be for him to send her away and feel guilty that he let her see him that way and think it's best that he keep away from her to "protect" her. The "new" way would be for him to talk to her about it. I hope it's the latter. This show does a lot of things poorly, in my opinion, but when it comes to the alcoholism and how it affects Deacon and his relationships with other people, they usually do a pretty good job, Chip portrays it well, and I find the evolution interesting to watch. That and Connie Britton are the main reasons I stick around.

 

Can I admit that I'm actually nervous about that? Maddie's going to see for the first time what Deacon actually looks like when he's in a rage and he's going to be beside himself that she witnessed it. She's just had to deal with her other Dad and his flaws, now she's seeing Deacon's first-hand too. Even if he reaches out to talk with her about it, I wonder how receptive she'll be? It's a hard lesson when you find out that the parents you idolize are people with flaws, just like everyone else.

[madam magpie]

I'm talking more about an emotional retreat, rather than a physical one. Deacon never retreats from anyone completely, he's very generous and loyal, and he always comes back to them eventually. So I expect he'll come back to Scarlett. But when your dad stops hanging out with you and you have no idea why, or your boyfriend vanishes for days and won't call you back, or your uncle/parent figure doesn't show up at the hospital to pull the plug on your mom, that's incredibly hurtful and damaging to the relationship. That's Deacon's MO. "Why" matters, but the people on the receiving end have to decide how much of it they can take. Rayna reached her breaking point. Scarlett and Maddie haven't. And someone like Deacon, who does care deeply for all of these people and doesn't want to hurt them, would have an ongoing battle to alter his behavior. Rayna's changed her behavior too, by the way. She's freaking out less and being more willing to offer support and comfort and then wait for him to come back to her. Realistically, as long as Deacon doesn't start drinking, she should settle into that more and more, which should allow him the space to retreat less and less.

The thing with Scarlett was very sad to me, though, because I do usually see Scarlett as the one tossed into the world with very little support. Part of that is a narrative construct to make her turn to Gunnar, but part of it also seems true to the character. She has Deacon, that's about it. And I think he really failed her last night. Kudos to her for (wo)manning up, though.

ETA

Re: Maddie. Yes! On a better show, that experience would be huge for Maddie, a really big deal that, in addition to what you said, should give her some real insight into both of her parents, but especially about Rayna. She should gain a much better understanding of Rayna and show some real maturity. But on this show, I worry she'll just get mad, throw a tantrum, and say something mean to someone.

Edited October 8, 2015 by madam magpie

[Soup333]

I thought Rayna's speech to Teddy was as much for him as it was for the girls. Being in prison and knowing that he has disappointed his daughters would be very sad for him and Rayna, being the empathic person she is, would do what she could to ease those feelings for him. He was her rock during that marriage despite knowing that he was her second choice and that she was still emotionally connected to Deacon (at least at the tail end of their marriage. Not sure it was this way throughout).

 

I was surprised that Maddie was right in there with Daphne destroying those scrapbooks. That seemed like an appropriate reaction for Daphne who had just realized her father was not innocent, but it seemed over the top and an immature response for Maddie. I always seem to overestimate Maddie's emotional maturity though.