S04.E01: Green Arrow

[dtissagirl]

I'm okay with Diggle being super angry and lashing out for now. How much longer it'll last will try my patience with the writers, yes.

 

Also, not at all digging that he's keeping his HIVE knowledge a secret for purely plot reasons. This show really needs to learn how to do secrets if they're gonna keep using them as a main motif. It's weak ass lame motivation that Diggle is keeping a secret just because he's mad at Oliver.

[nksarmi]

I said a few weeks ago that I thought the audience would start to turn on Digg for being mad at Oliver, and regular posters here poo-poo'd it...but see above, people are already starting to turn on Digg.

 

I don't think anyone is "turning" on Diggle - I think many just thought his line about "you can't love" was over the top.  Diggle and everyone else knows that Oliver can love - he loves Thea, he loves Diggle, and he deeply loves Felicity.  And Diggle knows this.  So bitching at him about not being able to "trust" or "being dark" is one thing - saying he can't love is another and it felt like a hit below the belt.

 

ETA: I actually was 100% ok when Diggle said he didn't want to go into the field with someone who he couldn't trust.  That IS a thing for Diggle and that DID make sense.  It was really only the "you can't love" thing that gave me a WTF moment.  And even in regards to Diggle holding out on HIVE - I don't blame him for now.  It was a one-off line by Deadshot and it is his brother so maybe he wants to check it out before letting Oliver in on that circle of trust.  But if they have him follow the Oliver model and hold out all season, then I will be annoyed.  Diggle has to at LEAST talk to Felicity about it.

Edited October 8, 2015 by nksarmi

[apinknightmare]

I think there is a big difference with Lyla. She's not close friends with Oliver. Dig is. Friends don't kidnap each other's wives and leave their kids alone. With the excuse being she was the best option or she can handle herself. That's not the point. Oliver thought Dig's family was expendable. If he truly knew that she wouldn't get hurt then he could've taken anyone.

What if she had gotten seriously injured by trying to fight back, what then? If taking Dig/Thea/Laurel could've got them hurt why can't the same logic apply to Lyla?

I don't think Oliver didn't take Thea/Felicity/Laurel because he was worried about them getting hurt, I think he was worried that he might not be able to keep up the facade with them begging him to come back to himself if he was genuinely scaring them. I think Lyla is unflappable and less likely to get all emotional about it, was the kind of person who had already told him that she knew what it was like to do what she had to do to beat a foe, and if shit went down she wouldn't have lost her cool and was the most capable out of all the options to be able to handle herself with the League.

Like I wrote, I get Diggle being angry about Sara. I'm not saying he's wrong to be mad, I just think that him spouting off about Oliver not being able to love and brushing off Oliver's concerns about Thea (a woman he's been working with since Oliver's been gone and should be concerned about in that capacity) in order to take digs at him was a little OTT last night and is going to be super OTT if it continues.

Edited October 8, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

Of COURSE they are writing Digg's anger badly; they write ALL emotional reactions badly.  That is the #1 characteristic of this show (well, maybe second behind writing for plot).  That is one of the reasons I expected people to turn on Digg...because I knew the EPs would write his (justifiable) anger badly.  

[looptab]

I really liked the episode. As most of you, I adored Thea. Dig is understandably pissed, and I look forward to see how they repair the bromance, but that line was cruel. DD seems a fun villain.

Count me in the column of those laughing during the Laurel/kid scene, seriously, WTF was that?LOL

I wish they hadn't cut Felicity's line of "you only wanted Oliver back because he comes with my fingers.".

Was this really supposed to be an actual line?

Because cancellation is not fun.

Please let it be Quentin. I live just east of Indianapolis, and I throw a heck of a party. You are all invited.

Hee, seriously. I think this matters way more than Because Comics. Also, reading all the comments, everytime I came across one of yours "Die, Quentin, die" I started laughing like an idiot, so thank you =)

I have to say, thinking that nothing more was going to happen after the Quentin reveal, having seen GG's name in the credits I kinda expected him to appear just to help Oliver and Felicity with their move. But no, they had to go and put a grave in, instead. I don't believe that the producers don't know who's going to die, btw.

Olicity was all kinds of awesome and amazing and cute and I didn't even think I could love them more. Their scenes feel real, I actually buy into them, and I'm happy because i was worried they wouldn't handle them well as a couple. Best scene the argument, starting with the "Want to play a game?", ahah. It was hilarious and very serious at the same time. Well done.

Overall a good episode, but I miss Roy :(

Eta: #LeaveOliverAlone. Please. Poor guy.

Edited October 8, 2015 by looptab

[bethy]

I'm certainly not turning on Diggle. Like I said, I understand where he's coming from. My fear, though, is that the writers are going to push and push this tension between Oliver and Diggle to the point that they make Diggle unlikable to me. They haven't so far and I hope they don't. But I don't trust the writers not to take things too far. 

[arjumand]

 

I agree with this. It felt like a placeholder team. I think they tried to lay it on thick with Laurel only accepting commands from Diggle but there was absolutely no spark or anything. Pretty bland actually. 

 

I mean, come on, right?

 

At that point, or maybe after the whole train station of let's make Oliver feel like crap, I felt Oliver was justified in saying something like: "Hey Felicity, you can do all that stuff remotely, right? From somewhere interesting, as in, not-Stepford, right? Well, we're outta here. Byeee!"

 

Look, Placeholder Team (I love it!), you either need Oliver, or you don't. You want him back, then no matter how butthurt Diggle is gonna be, Oliver's in charge.

 

I honestly could not believe they were doing all that "You're not the boss of us" bullshit once they got him back to SC. I mean, they were the ones who went for him, and dragged him back, and he didn't wanna go! And now they're all, Diggle is our leader now!

 

I guess that's what the showrunners consider "funny". I don't get it.

 

I don't even want to get into the gravestone. Do not wanna go there. Especially after the whole "We don't even know who dies, tee hee!" from MG and co. If I did, I'd point out that Felicity has twice been identified as Jewish. And movies/tv (I don't know how prevalent this is in real life) have taught us to expect visitors to put a stone on the gravestone. But again, not gonna go there. Because reading too deeply into anything that's been said in the past on Arrow? That way lies madness.

 

I liked the episode, until the last scene, which I wasn't spoiled for. But I'm not going to let it ruin my enjoyment of the show, with the usual caveats (if it's Felicity, I'm dunzo - hey, I promised myself that with Doctor Who

and Donna, and even though she didn't actually die, I kept my word!

). I'm just going to let it all wash over me.

[NumberCruncher]

I'm okay with Diggle being super angry and lashing out for now. How much longer it'll last will try my patience with the writers, yes.

Yep, this is me too. I've hardly "turned" on Diggle because I get where he's coming from, but given that Lyla's clearly over what Oliver did, to have Diggle continue to be an asshole about it will just look more and more stupid as time goes by. I hope the writers are smarter than that.

[Guest]

At that point, or maybe after the whole train station of let's make Oliver feel like crap, I felt Oliver was justified in saying something like: "Hey Felicity, you can do all that stuff remotely, right? From somewhere interesting, as in, not-Stepford, right? Well, we're outta here. Byeee!"

 

Look, Placeholder Team (I love it!), you either need Oliver, or you don't. You want him back, then no matter how butthurt Diggle is gonna be, Oliver's in charge.

 

I honestly could not believe they were doing all that "You're not the boss of us" bullshit once they got him back to SC. I mean, they were the ones who went for him, and dragged him back, and he didn't wanna go! And now they're all, Diggle is our leader now!

 

Yeah, it didn't make much sense for them to start hating on him when they're the ones who asked for his help. I understand them still being angry but the guy came back to help them when he really didn't have to. 

[Chaos Theory]

Lance has issues with all the Masks in the city. I would see it in his personality to ally himself with someone promising something different only to realize that it is the same old same old. I could see this season being about him coming to terms with one daughters death and the others taking up the mantel to vigilantism. My guess it is his grave.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, it didn't make much sense for them to start hating on him when they're the ones who asked for his help. I understand them still being angry but the guy came back to help them when he really didn't have to. 

 

 

Yeah, I thought them standing there blankly staring at him when he was telling them what needed to be done was stupid. There was another way to indicate that he wasn't the leader of the team, but they really don't know how to handle the team outside of Oliver, it seems. Like last season when he "died" and came back and they were all, "YOU'RE NOT THE LEADER OF US ANYMORE!" even though they hadn't managed to get jack shit done without him, haha. It just kills me that they go to him because they can't figure out what to do, and when he starts figuring out ways for them to meet their objective, they look at him like, "Who do you think you are?!"

Edited October 8, 2015 by apinknightmare

[mommalib]

I mean, come on, right?

 

At that point, or maybe after the whole train station of let's make Oliver feel like crap, I felt Oliver was justified in saying something like: "Hey Felicity, you can do all that stuff remotely, right? From somewhere interesting, as in, not-Stepford, right? Well, we're outta here. Byeee!"

 

Look, Placeholder Team (I love it!), you either need Oliver, or you don't. You want him back, then no matter how butthurt Diggle is gonna be, Oliver's in charge.

 

I honestly could not believe they were doing all that "You're not the boss of us" bullshit once they got him back to SC. I mean, they were the ones who went for him, and dragged him back, and he didn't wanna go! And now they're all, Diggle is our leader now!

 

I guess that's what the showrunners consider "funny". I don't get it.

 

I don't even want to get into the gravestone. Do not wanna go there. Especially after the whole "We don't even know who dies, tee hee!" from MG and co. If I did, I'd point out that Felicity has twice been identified as Jewish. And movies/tv (I don't know how prevalent this is in real life) have taught us to expect visitors to put a stone on the gravestone. But again, not gonna go there. Because reading too deeply into anything that's been said in the past on Arrow? That way lies madness.

 

I liked the episode, until the last scene, which I wasn't spoiled for. But I'm not going to let it ruin my enjoyment of the show, with the usual caveats (if it's Felicity, I'm dunzo - hey, I promised myself that with Doctor Who

and Donna, and even though she didn't actually die, I kept my word!

). I'm just going to let it all wash over me.

Exactly they were very childish and petty toward Oliver. You drag the guy back to treat him like this? Makes no sense. I hated it on Smallville when other character would treat Clark like crap. And to make matter worst they(Clark/Oliver) don't put these people in their place.

[wingster55]

^ I think it would have been better if they had info on the ghosts but needed Oliver's fighting skill to take them down. All the instructions he gave...they could've done themselves.

[apinknightmare]

^ I think it would have been better if they had info on the ghosts but needed Oliver's fighting skill to take them down. All the instructions he gave...they could've done themselves.

 

Yeah, something along those lines would've made more sense. Instead they decided to make them out to be a group of morons with absolutely no strategic knowhow, for...whatever reason.

[bethy]

Yeah, I thought them standing there blankly staring at him when he stood there telling them what needed to be done was stupid. There was another way to indicate that he wasn't the leader of the team, but they really don't know how to handle the team outside of Oliver, it seems. Like last season when he "died" and came back and they were all, "YOU'RE NOT THE LEADER OF US ANYMORE!" even though they hadn't managed to get jack shit done without him, haha. It just kills me that they go to him because they can't figure out what to do, and when he starts figuring out ways for them to meet their objective, they look at him like, "Who do you think you are?!"

 

Diggle, okay. He didn't ask Oliver back. But Laurel and Thea, and Laurel in particular being all, "Let me make a point of not responding to you when I will to Diggle" was just dumb. Lady, you're the one who told him it WAS IN HIS BONES to come help them save Starling City and now you're giving him attitude? Sure.

 

I did think Oliver's reaction was cute. There was humility there in realizing that he was taking over again (though, of course, that's what they'd basically asked him to do, so, yeah) and pulling back. I thought that was a nice Oliver moment.

[Happy Harpy]

I said a few weeks ago that I thought the audience would start to turn on Digg for being mad at Oliver, and regular posters here poo-poo'd it...but see above, people are already starting to turn on Digg.

I think that the writers are simply doing to Diggle what they did to Felicity last season, where he was (relatively) spared in OOC writing and took the hit for the team more on screentime than on his characterization.

Here, like they did for Felicity, they took imo a premise in character (not pinning hopelessly/not accepting the lack of trust), and then blew it out of proportion to fit their plot.

I believe that after three seasons, and thanks to D.Ramsey's nuanced portrayal, I know who John Diggle is, what he would do in a very exhaustive number of situations and above all, what he knows about Oliver Queen. The line "you don't love" was PodDiggle, not JohnDiggle. 

 

So I won't turn against the character or hate him more than I did for Felicity in S3. I will lay the blame at the feet of the responsible, the writers. (Or anything less dramatic).

I wonder, actually, if the point of that whole stuff wasn't to set up the secrecy about HIVE...and after Oliver refused to share once again because it wasn't the point of the flashbacks in this episode, I actually understand that it was the straw that broke the camel's back so that Diggle kept the intel for himself.

It will certainly come back to bite him in the ass, and I don't see any good that could come out of it for anyone (hypocrisy galore in sight) but if it was the only goal I have good hope that O/D will come back to "normal" soon.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Delphi]

If anyone actually cares the song playing when Oliver is about to propose is called All Eyes On You by St Lucia and it's a really good song and perfect for Olicity.

[AyChihuahua]

Diggle, okay. He didn't ask Oliver back. But Laurel and Thea, and Laurel in particular being all, "Let me make a point of not responding to you when I will to Diggle" was just dumb. Lady, you're the one who told him it WAS IN HIS BONES to come help them save Starling City and now you're giving him attitude? Sure.

The writers just write the weirdest stuff.  "Please, please come back and help us, Oliver.  Being a hero is what you're meant to be!"  Five minutes later: "You are not the boss of me, jerkface!"

[arjumand]

Yeah, I thought them standing there blankly staring at him when he was telling them what needed to be done was stupid. There was another way to indicate that he wasn't the leader of the team, but they really don't know how to handle the team outside of Oliver, it seems. Like last season when he "died" and came back and they were all, "YOU'RE NOT THE LEADER OF US ANYMORE!" even though they hadn't managed to get jack shit done without him, haha. It just kills me that they go to him because they can't figure out what to do, and when he starts figuring out ways for them to meet their objective, they look at him like, "Who do you think you are?!"

 

Oh absolutely. So very much so.

 

I hated it when it happened last season, and I hate it here. Because obviously Oliver is the leader - if we're looking for reasons, the most obvious one is that the show is about the Green Arrow, who is Oliver Queen, last time I checked.*

 

And like you're saying - Oliver hasn't been there for six months, and the city is spiraling down the toilet bowl. GOOD JOB, TEAM.

 

*I think I hate it so much because it was stupid when it happened on Buffy, too - just a way to create conflict, fine. But it has to be believable. To me, it's not believable when the main fricking character the show is named after gets thrown out of her house by a bunch of whiny assholes she's been letting live there FOR FREE. And to get back to Arrow, it's not believable that two people, who went to collect a guy for certain skills (heh heh) then look at him like he's started speaking in Mandarin when he starts exhibiting them.

[apinknightmare]

 

I believe that after three seasons, and thanks to D.Ramsey's nuanced portrayal, I know who John Diggle is, what he would do in a very exhaustive number of situations and above all, what he knows about Oliver Queen. The line "you don't love" was PodDiggle, not JohnDiggle.

 

I agree. 

 

My issue with it is this: how many times over the past three years has Diggle seen Oliver do whatever he had to do to capture the bad guy? Yeah, sometimes he needs a pep talk into doing it, but...just the year before, Oliver handed Felicity-the woman he loved-over to Slade, with absolutely no guarantee that he wouldn't kill her on sight, in order to bring Slade down. He's a cold dude - when push comes to shove, nothing is off limits. 

 

I get why Oliver taking Lyla would've been an initial shock to Diggle, and I completely understand his anger at his daughter being left alone, but this is the kind of thing that Oliver does and has been doing for a while now. So, it hurts, yeah...but this isn't an Oliver that Diggle doesn't know - he knows this Oliver. He's seen this Oliver do similar shit. He's worked with this Oliver for years. I understand his hurt and trust issues to a certain extent, but I really don't get Diggle of all people all of a sudden going off on Oliver for not being capable of love or whatever. Definitely PodDiggle! there. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

I also don't understand the Team dynamic and this whole "there is no leader". What's the difference, really? from how the things were in s2, for example. I remember them all talking, planning. They didn't always need to be told what to do. What, now they want a "please and thank you" each time he asks for something? I really don't get it, especially since they are so competent, half the dialogues in the cave wouldn't need to exhist.

[nksarmi]

I guess I'm the only one who didn't mind the scene where he started barking orders and they just all stared at him.  First, Diggle didn't ask for him to be there.  Second, Thea and Laurel said they needed him - that doesn't mean they want him barking orders at them.  I mean sure, everyone basically does what Batman says, but he does remember to pretend like the others have a say every now and then. :)

 

Besides, Thea basically did go do what he told her to do.  So really, we are only talking about Laurel here and she might have been giving him that look because he was barking orders at everyone.  Like she expected him to be more smooth with Diggle or something.  I really think it was about showcasing that there would be a different dynamic this season.  Maybe everyone didn't pull it off 100%, but it wasn't the worst thing ever.

[blixie]

 

I agree with this. It felt like a placeholder team. I think they tried to lay it on thick with Laurel only accepting commands from Diggle but there was absolutely no spark or anything. Pretty bland actually.

 

I didn't really love when Sara/Roy were there either, but they at least felt like a cohesive FUNCTIONING unit. Right now it's probably the conflict between Dig/Oliver and the writers continuing to not take care of the independent but equally important relationship between Felicity/Dig. I don't think they care though and will continue to ignore it to facilitate the divide and make Diggle look like a cut off his  nose to spite his face idiot who can't forgive even though his wife already has. I'm prepared for this to last through all of 4A and begin to resolve going into the break between halves.

 

I will say my absolute favorite line of the episode went to Lyla's bit about him being Oliver's moral touchstone and anchor, I think that would have been a better bit of dialogue for Dig to feed back to Oliver, that love, even the familial kind of love they had for each other has to be rooted in trust, and that he's straight TIRED of being that anchor, Oliver has to be his OWN damn moral anchor. He needs to give Dig time and space, and he needs to SHOW Dig he's changed from the man who betrayed him so recently.

[mommalib]

I'm team Oliver, No he doesn't always do the politically correct thing but he does what he has to do. He's the one that has to make the tough choices. All the team work in the world isn't going to change the fact that he's the leader.

I guess I'm the only one who didn't mind the scene where he started barking orders and they just all stared at him.  First, Diggle didn't ask for him to be there.  Second, Thea and Laurel said they needed him - that doesn't mean they want him barking orders at them.  I mean sure, everyone basically does what Batman says, but he does remember to pretend like the others have a say every now and then. :)

 

Besides, Thea basically did go do what he told her to do.  So really, we are only talking about Laurel here and she might have been giving him that look because he was barking orders at everyone.  Like she expected him to be more smooth with Diggle or something.  I really think it was about showcasing that there Thweywould be a different dynamic this season.  Maybe everyone didn't pull it off 100%, but it wasn't the worst thing ever.

They basically asked the guy back so that he could direct them and that's what he was doing.

[Guest]

In other news, still don't like Diggle's helmet. The rest of the costume is A plus. But thumbs down to head gear. 

[bijoux]

It was a mistake not to show Dig, Laurel and Thea get in at least one win before being confronted with the ghosts. That, rather than telling us they were doing great up until that point, would have don a better job of selling them as a believable unit. As it was, there was no visible connection. Sparks of something between Thea and Laurel possibly but Dig looked like an island unto himself.

 

How exasparated was Darhk at his henchmen? There he is waxing poetical and noone gets it! It was hilarious. You know he's thinking, I really need to enforce a stricter henchmen hiring policy. He who has not read the classics need not apply.

 

Oliver and Felicity are so on game it's ridiculous. Him figuring her out and actually tricking her with the bank robberies, I believe, them figuring out the explosives carrying train a breath apart, and the fluidity of him circling the back of her chair, her looking up at him, the head kiss and the shoulder lean. That almost looked like a dance.

[Carrie Ann]

I was actually really underwhelmed by the fight scenes. The stunt doubles were still obvious, it was sloppy and there where legit moments where people seemed lost. 

 

Yeah, I noticed this too. Normally I'm very w/e about the fight scenes anyway, but last night, there were so many instances of things that just didn't make sense from a choreography standpoint, or a natural flow of action standpoint. That initial truck heist scene--4 or 5 dudes are just machine gunning everywhere in sight, but when this tiny red suit flies into the truck, they stop using their guns? They just wait for her to fight them hand-to-hand? That makes no sense and the scene wasn't fast enough to ignore it. Seriously, they all stand there dumbfounded while she fights them. And then the scene ends with the ONE guy left standing holding his gun on her for like 10 seconds without shooting. Why? Just so that they could wait for BC to throw her bombs AT THE TRUCK FULL OF AMMO. What in the...

 

Of COURSE they are writing Digg's anger badly; they write ALL emotional reactions badly.  That is the #1 characteristic of this show (well, maybe second behind writing for plot).  That is one of the reasons I expected people to turn on Digg...because I knew the EPs would write his (justifiable) anger badly.  

 

I agree that the writers fail at writing emotional nuance a lot of the time, but IMO if that's true then reacting to Dig's overreaction (heh) is every bit as justified as reacting to Felicity's teariness or Oliver's myopia last season. Because the writers aren't great at modulating emotional reactions--for them, it's zero or 100 and nothing in between. But it's not on the viewers to be like, "Oh well, they just don't know how to do this, so I won't react to it." Some people may choose that route, and I applaud it, but many people probably won't and shouldn't be expected to do that. Sorry if what I just said is the same thing you're trying to say--it just feels like there's an air of "people unhappy about Dig are doing something wrong" in your comments, and that's what I think people are responding to.

 

 

Personally, I'm in the PodDiggle camp on that "you don't love" line and am therefore dismissing it. Dig isn't stupid and he's far-enough removed from the abduction that he shouldn't be making rash statements. I bought every other bit of his reaction to Oliver, and was fine with it for the most part (although it's super selfish to be like, "the whole city's falling apart but NO WAY are we calling him for help," I still buy it from him because he can be stubborn), but he knows that Oliver loves people. It was a stupid line, and I am dismissing it the same way I did the stupid scene where he tried to make Oliver Felicity's problem in 307, and jumping to believing in Roy's guilt and arguing that they should take him out. Nah, not Dig.

 

That BtVS scene that @arjumand mentioned above is one of my very least favorites ever on that show. It made me hate everyone but Buffy. And this is something the showrunners need to understand, and fast--the majority of your viewers probably sympathize with your lead character unless you're doing something wrong, so when you pit ANYONE else against them, especially for an extended period of time, that person will start to feel less sympathetic. Hello, Quentin Lance! RIP Quentin Lance!

[Password]

Am I the only person who isnt feeling Oliver's new suit? It just...no.

When Felicity kissed his shoulder (because it's a thing now) it looked so weird because he looks like an American Football player.

[Chaser]

There isn't a Team leader seems only to apply to Oliver. I got the impression Diggle was the Leader of this costume party. Laurel deferred to him and she and Thea went behind his back to get Oliver. If it was an equal partnership, shouldn't they have just overruled Diggle?

 

Diggle seemed cold except in the scenes with Lyla and Sara. I had kind of thought we would see a kind of OTA-vibe with D/T/L, basically more of an easy going friendly atmosphere. But it was like Diggle was running a business and Thea/Laurel were his employees.

[Guest]

It was a mistake not to show Dig, Laurel and Thea get in at least one win before being confronted with the ghosts. That, rather than telling us they were doing great up until that point, would have don a better job of selling them as a believable unit. As it was, there was no visible connection. Sparks of something between Thea and Laurel possibly but Dig looked like an island unto himself.

 

 

Oliver and Felicity are so on game it's ridiculous. Him figuring her out and actually tricking her with the bank robberies, I believe, them figuring out the explosives carrying train a breath apart, and the fluidity of him circling the back of her chair, her looking up at him, the head kiss and the shoulder lean. That almost looked like a dance.

 

I sort of see the merit of Diggle being like an island though, in the sense that he's worked so long with Oliver and Felicity and they were such a great dynamic and well-oiled unit, I can see him not having the same dynamic with Thea and Laurel. I don't buy the three of them at all actually. To me it felt intentional - showing how the team didn't feel right yet because O/F weren't there. It felt incomplete. At least that's how I read it.

 

Oliver and Felicity were ridiculously good together. Still not over how good tbh. They were actually exciting to watch and just so in sync and in tune with each other. I'm excited to see how they develop now that they're back in the city but it was an amazing start. 

 

 

Am I the only person who isnt feeling Oliver's new suit? It just...no.

When Felicity kissed his shoulder (because it's a thing now) it looked so weird because he looks like an American Football player.

 

 

I'm not feeling his suit either. It has grown on me since the first reveal but he looks kind of awkward in it, restricted almost. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by Guest

[Chaos Theory]

Ok I think I figured out why the episode felt wrong to me. We saw Oliver and Felicity happy away from the city but the rest of the gang hapless and hopeless without them. It would have been nice to see them all move on with minor wins (Laurel maybe winning a case in court after the gang stops a robbery or something) only to hit a wall with a big thing. All we saw was them on a single run getting their asses kicked Laurel immediately bringing up Oliver.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[bijoux]

Personally, I'm in the PodDiggle camp on that "you don't love" line and am therefore dismissing it. Dig isn't stupid and he's far-enough removed from the abduction that he shouldn't be making rash statements. I bought every other bit of his reaction to Oliver, and was fine with it for the most part (although it's super selfish to be like, "the whole city's falling apart but NO WAY are we calling him for help," I still buy it from him because he can be stubborn), but he knows that Oliver loves people. It was a stupid line, and I am dismissing it the same way I did the stupid scene where he tried to make Oliver Felicity's problem in 307, and jumping to believing in Roy's guilt and arguing that they should take him out. Nah, not Dig.

 

I agree with you but have to admit this worries me at the same time. Because how many instance like these will it take for NotDig to become RealDig? I don't approve of this possibility seeing as I love Dig.

 

On a lighter note, does part of Felicity's involvement with the team include swapping make up tips with Laurel and Thea? Because I couldn't help but notice all three sporting nude manicures when in the past they had not. I'm not judging, it just caught my eye.

 

Just like a mere mention of Walter made me almost clap. Yay, Walter. Now come back for real. Oliver, call him up for an intervention with Thea. I'm so afraid he's gonna call Malcolm when Walter is a) local, and b) clearly the best of Thea's three dad by a ridiculously wide margin.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it: here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Arrow Turns On The Darhk
There's a new villain, a new city name, and even a new name for the titular hero. It's a new Arrow day!

[Password]

I'm not feeling his suit either. It has grown on me since the first reveal but he looks kind of awkward in it, restricted almost.

Exactly it's like he's a stuffed pepper.

[Carrie Ann]

I agree with you but have to admit this worries me at the same time. Because how many instance like these will it take for NotDig to become RealDig?

 

I would say that the answer to that is: whenever any individual viewer decides that he has. You know? No one can decide for anyone else what constitutes character ruination. I felt the same way about Felicity last season--not because of the tears but because of the actions I saw as OOC. They piled up to a point that I said, maybe I just don't know her or like her anymore? But then it took like one episode of her being IN character for me to decide I did still like her and was willing to hold out for all her dumb storylines to end. They did and I rejoiced, and what I heard in the post-season hiatus led me to feel like the EPs/writers were made aware of certain missteps they'd made, and that made me feel less wary about deciding to just write off the stuff I didn't like from S3. I'm willing to give everyone a fresh start here, and hope for the best.

 

So while that one line was bad for Dig, it's not enough for me to reach for my prayer beads yet.

[arjumand]

Am I the only person who isnt feeling Oliver's new suit? It just...no.

When Felicity kissed his shoulder (because it's a thing now) it looked so weird because he looks like an American Football player.

 

No, you're not the only one. And it's making me really sad, because I liked it at Comicon, and I liked it in the posters.

 

Was just now trying to figure it out, and I think I got what's wrong - in the old suit, the quiver was strapped on diagonally across the chest - which is really flattering.

 

This new suit, the quiver is attached like a back pack, with two vertical straps going down over his shoulders - it makes his chest look boxy and short. And this effect is only clear when he's moving (or trying to move - this suit seems even more restrictive than the old one).

 

Come on guys, did you not screentest how it looks in motion? Aesthetics are important because hello, tv is a visual medium.

 

ETA - it's even clearer when you compare it to his one attempt to be Flashback Arrow - comparing that scene to the new suit scenes it looks like Oliver gained about fifty pounds after moving to the suburbs. Except we know they were filmed at the same time, and it's the suit making him look bulky and awkward.

Edited October 8, 2015 by arjumand

[bijoux]

Did anyone get what Waller told Oliver as he was passing out? And could she and Laurel please leave his bones alone?

While on the flashbacks, I have to say as much flack as Oliver gets for his harikiri tendencies, his survival instinct trumps those by a mile. Seriously, if it had been me and I saw Hellhole Island again while in his state of mind (not feeling fit to go back home, i.e. not having any cause to push me forward), I'd rather not have opened that parachute and made a splat.

[Guest]

Exactly it's like he's a stuffed pepper.

 

And weirdly, in one of the 402 promo pics where he's standing next to Thea, it makes him look short? I don't know. There's something not quite right about it.

[Chaser]

4 years into flashbacks and Oliver is still getting his butt kicked. Was I the only one who thought that guy took him down super easy? I would have thought that after Hong Kong, he would have gotten a little better.

 

I don't know if it was because SA was pitching his voice higher, but I thought EBR and KC were pitching theirs lower. It was odd for a moment.

 

The Thea goes crazy scene was a little funny. She looks ninety pounds and she is just walloping this guy.

 

KC toned Laurel down, but the blank stare was back full force in this epsiode. The scene at the house was awkward.

[looptab]

I liked a lot  that Dig said "lying to me and Felicity" when he was talking with Lyla. I like that he is offended for her, but that everyone else was left out. It clearly was OT3 business.

[lemotomato]

Am I the only person who isnt feeling Oliver's new suit? It just...no.

When Felicity kissed his shoulder (because it's a thing now) it looked so weird because he looks like an American Football player.

I'm not sure if it's the shoulder pads or the new hood or just the bulkier front, but Oliver in the new suit looks like he has no neck, which bugs me.

[AyChihuahua]

I agree that the writers fail at writing emotional nuance a lot of the time, but IMO if that's true then reacting to Dig's overreaction (heh) is every bit as justified as reacting to Felicity's teariness or Oliver's myopia last season. Because the writers aren't great at modulating emotional reactions--for them, it's zero or 100 and nothing in between. But it's not on the viewers to be like, "Oh well, they just don't know how to do this, so I won't react to it." Some people may choose that route, and I applaud it, but many people probably won't and shouldn't be expected to do that. Sorry if what I just said is the same thing you're trying to say--it just feels like there's an air of "people unhappy about Dig are doing something wrong" in your comments, and that's what I think people are responding to.

Eh, I don't think anyone having any reaction to a fictional character is doing something wrong (except for liking Ray the Cane Toad).  My point was, and is, that a lot of the audience does not react well to any character being mean to Oliver, whether justifiable or not.  That doesn't so much include posters here, who tend to be more analytical, but there are lots of other websites with comments hating on Digg already...one episode in.  I predicted it weeks ago and it is coming to pass.

 

Also, the main reasons I hate Quentin now are because he was mean to Oliver, unjustifiably mean (and hypocritical and abusive).  So I certainly don't think it's "wrong," since I did it, too.    

[Chaser]

Oliver looked super stiff in the suit. I hate that fake six pack and the bulky shoulder pads. And then when he was talking to Diggle at the station, he looked really small to me (granted it was next to DR).

 

In the Quotes section they are talking about the fight scene. It may have been my favorite scene. They played off each other so well. EBR was so cute when he asked about playing a game. She perked up like they play a lot of fun games and the way she shook her head instead of answering. It was gold.

 

Plus the whole Bali thing. Perfect.

[apinknightmare]

I was just rewatching, and I really, really wish whoever wrote that "Wow, you're so strong!" line from the kid to Laurel had him being starstruck instead. Like saying, "Whoa, you're the Black Canary!" or something similar, since he's a young boy and would probably be really into SC's superheroes. I mean, he was tiny, and his parents probably picked him up all the time, so Laurel doing it shouldn't have been a big deal to him. I just makes me LOL.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I was zoning out...did Laurel actually lift the kid, or did she just help him stand up?  If it's the second one, the "you're so strong" thing doesn't make sense, but OK.  (The gifs look like she is just helping him stand).

Edited October 8, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[dtissagirl]

She doesn't even take the kid off the ground, she just stands him up. Forever LOLing.

[Happy Harpy]

I agree with you but have to admit this worries me at the same time. Because how many instance like these will it take for NotDig to become RealDig? I don't approve of this possibility seeing as I love Dig.

 

Just like a mere mention of Walter made me almost clap. Yay, Walter. Now come back for real. Oliver, call him up for an intervention with Thea. I'm so afraid he's gonna call Malcolm when Walter is a) local, and b) clearly the best of Thea's three dad by a ridiculously wide margin.

I think I'd need more than three years, but without OT3 I wouldn't stick with Arrow for three years, so I guess I can say never.

Hey, I still consider Quentin's behavior since the end of S3-B character assassination and I still like my Gordon-like Quentin and I'd be pissed off if he's the one in the grave.

 

And Walter! I miss Walter, the name dropping was such a tease. Ah, the good times of 2x01 when he did show up and I was all squeeing WALTEEEER in front of my screen like a One Direction fangirl. Agree on all counts about Thea, but don't say it too loud because they already killed Thea's mother and conveniently forgot how much Thea loved Robert, the only father she knew, so that Malcolm would be her only option...I wouldn't want them to kill Walter offscreen in order to establish Not-Son of Ra's as the only parent she has ever known.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Primal Slayer]

Just rewatched the episode to see if I could relate to some problems others had. Most of them i didn't.

The laurel/kid scene, while i agree the dialogue should've been changed, the scene was ok to me. Kid was knocked down, she helps him up so he can run away, nothing major.

At first, i found it a bit weird at Black Canary talking to Q after the attack, but they only had 1 sentence between them once everyone came into the office. Though she should've had a voice changer but it seems like anyone who isn't Oliver won't be getting one.

Laurel contacting Diggle when her boss went down wasn't incriminating, at least not any more incriminating then Oliver/Diggles talk in the train station and Oliver/Quentins a second later.

Team Digg definitely needed more time together before Oliver was brought back in, we got 1 major scene with them and that was all so we never really got to see them work together.

This v should've been 2 hours since they crammed so much in there.

[Aeryn13]

Not too enamored with this one. 

 

You either want Oliver there or not. It just felt silly to go and get him - and he clearly was less than enthused - and then pointedly give him the cold shoulder. The only thing even more silly would have been to go to his new suburban life just to give him the cold shoulder.

 

I`m also not excluding Diggle. He may not have been onboard with asking Oliver back but if they make such a big thing out of a) we don`t have a boss anymore, we are a unit or b) Diggle is the boss of us, that means Diggle has to a) abide by what the majority of the unit decides or b) they just admitted that they went against their own acclaimed leader. So stupid.

 

Also, the writers went out of their way to suddenly make Diggle an asshole about it. Back in the Season 3 Finale he was last seen to say stuff like "I`m still angry, our trust is broken and I don`t know if I can ever forgive you but I`m still happy for you and Felicity because you deserve to be happy". Now we`re suddenly at "you are just as evil as Ras Al Ghul inside". Holy High Horse Batman. Even Diggle has to know how much bullshit that is.

 

Him being disappointed is fine. He awarded Oliver the place of "brother" which was a big thing for him after Andy`s death and he feels personally betrayed by said brother. But what good does it do to pretend like Oliver has no good sides. He DID help you heal after Andy, Diggle, To trample on that and ignore that is petty and cruel. It`s like a jilted lover who spouts stuff like "I always knew what a waste of space so-and-so aka their former lover was". No you didn`t or else you wouldn`t have been with them. You just insulted yourself way more than you did them, moron.

 

I just hope this isn`t an ongoing theme this Season. Oliver did make some mistakes last Season but neither do I think it warrants a 23 episode stoning over it nor do I have the slightest inclination to see that. Barry almost destroyed the world for utterly selfish reasons and everyone still loves him on his own show, why is there such a different approach.

 

As for the grave scene, urgh. This is such a cheap trick to build up drama. And if the writers truly don`t even know who it`s gonna be? Yikes..

[foreverevolving]

 

so i guess Diggle's new super power from his suit is being able to summon metallic guns into his hands?

Cause that gun appeared form literally no where.

I guess he stole more than just magneto helmet... 

Edited October 8, 2015 by foreverevolving