S04.E01: Green Arrow

[apinknightmare]

There's a holster on his thigh. I think...somehow it was supposed to have come from there. 

[Sakura12]

They really need to stop telling us how awesome Laurel is. The more times you say it doesn't make it true.

 

We saw Sara be strong and well to use their word earn it. I think Quentin was the only person that said she was the strongest person he knows and that's because he saw what she became.  They need to have Laurel earn it, not have people tell her that because that just makes me roll my eyes. And it makes me think she's in it for the glory, instead of wanting to help people. 

[Primal Slayer]

Is a kid saying that to her a big feat though? Kids are amazed by a lot of things.

But what waa her "big moment" that MG was talking about? Just a way to get some fans hyped up for nothing i guess.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[Sakura12]

Sara rescued a kid from a burning building and we didn't hear that kid tell Sara how awesome she is. 

[bijoux]

 

I don't know if it was because SA was pitching his voice higher, but I thought EBR and KC were pitching theirs lower. It was odd for a moment.

  

EBR sounded like she had a cold in some of her scenes.

I liked a lot  that Dig said "lying to me and Felicity" when he was talking with Lyla. I like that he is offended for her, but that everyone else was left out. It clearly was OT3 business.

  

It makes sense for him to see it like that. What doesn't make sense is his non-reaction to seeing her in the lair. I guess I'll just have to pretend they Facetime all the time and they had a hug fest with Dig showing her Sara's photos while the other three were doing something else.

In the Quotes section they are talking about the fight scene. It may have been my favorite scene. They played off each other so well. EBR was so cute when he asked about playing a game. She perked up like they play a lot of fun games and the way she shook her head instead of answering. It was gold.

 

Plus the whole Bali thing. Perfect.

It was amazing. It went from, "Ooh, a game, I like games. I like our games." to, "This is not a good game. I don't want to play this one. Nope. Can't make me."

On the vacation thing, there were some photographs on the fridge that we have not seen before. Have they been shared anywhere yet?

[Primal Slayer]

Sara rescued a kid from a burning building and we didn't hear that kid tell Sara how awesome she is.

Ok? They aren't in a competition last time i looked.

[lexicon]

I was just rewatching, and I really, really wish whoever wrote that "Wow, you're so strong!" line from the kid to Laurel had him being starstruck instead. Like saying, "Whoa, you're the Black Canary!" or something similar, since he's a young boy and would probably be really into SC's superheroes. I mean, he was tiny, and his parents probably picked him up all the time, so Laurel doing it shouldn't have been a big deal to him. I just makes me LOL.

 

That line legitimately had me wondering if I'd missed something. It was s3 levels of WTfuckery. Saving the kid and winking were fine but then getting praised for literally helping him stand up had me loling so hard. I may or may not have also dubbed myself a superhero too at that point, since I've a 5yr who I've been known to pick up from time to time. 

[apinknightmare]

But what waa her "big moment" that MG was talking about? Just a way to get some fans hyped up for nothing i guess.

 

Was it a "big" moment, or an "iconic" one? I'm guessing it's supposed to be her on the bike. 

That line legitimately had me wondering if I'd missed something. It was s3 levels of WTfuckery. Saving the kid and winking were fine but then getting praised for literally helping him stand up had me loling so hard. I may or may not have also dubbed myself a superhero too at that point, since I've a 5yr who I've been known to pick up from time to time. 

 

Yeah, the line was stupid, because she did nothing at all out of the ordinary to a kid. That's why I thought it would've been better if he recognized her as Black Canary and had kind of a "wow" moment about it. 

[Primal Slayer]

Idk, big or iconic, nothing stood out to me. Especially the bike since we already saw it in the trailer.

[Starfish35]

It was "iconic" IIRC, and I'm sure it was the bike.

[lemotomato]

Is a kid saying that to her a big feat though? Kids are amazed by a lot of things.

But what waa her "big moment" that MG was talking about? Just a way to get some fans hyped up for nothing i guess.

I think that scene with the kid was her big moment. Or maybe her and the bike? I dunno... BC/LL fans on Twitter seemed to have loved it. Edited October 8, 2015 by lemotomato

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I'm 99% sure it was the bike - I certainly hope that moment with the kid wasn't intended to be iconic, haha.

[SleepDeprived]

Did a re-watch and it really amuses me when people on tv pretend to have coffee/tea/water/any liquid in their mugs. That shattered glass that the DA dropped was as dry as California's dams on the carpet.

 

Did anyone get what Waller told Oliver as he was passing out? And could she and Laurel please leave his bones alone?

 

I think Waller told him that when Oliver wakes up, to remember that she was only trying to help. Did the bones line in S2 get ridiculed as much outside of TWoP and here? I don't remember. Whichever writer thought up that amazing quotable line definitely doubled down with the skeleton talk. I'm going to wank that whichever writer it was is the same one that gave us that gem about Laurel's refrigerator light.

 

At first, i found it a bit weird at Black Canary talking to Q after the attack, but they only had 1 sentence between them once everyone came into the office. Though she should've had a voice changer but it seems like anyone who isn't Oliver won't be getting one.

 

But, as of this time, vigilantes are still not welcome in the city, right, and the police are after them? Laurel just seemed far too comfortable and nonchalant standing there, looking around the precinct, as the other police officers came storming in and that one lady cop talked to Quentin. She should've, at least, looked like she was about to leave to try and keep her secret identity secret, not like she was chums with the police captain. Then again, Laurel does sport fingerless gloves so, maybe, she just doesn't care if people find out that the ADA is moonlighting as a vigilante.

[Chaser]

I saw on tumblr a parallel of Sara walking out of the burning building holding a child and Laurel helping the kid stand up. I wasn't sure if it was a joke or not.

[Sakura12]

Ok? They aren't in a competition last time i looked.

 

My point was as my earlier post was about that they are always having everyone praise Laurel when she didn't really do anything. 

 

I ran and saved a two year old from walking right into a pool. I guess should call myself a super hero now. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by Sakura12

[HighwayFlower]

The kid line was so contrived! Just a "whoa" would have been better. And her wink was way to cutesy for such a serious situation. Scene felt totaly out of place and forced.

Her scene with Thea on the motorcycle was good and her comment about Thea's definition of awesome or whatever word she used was funny. For that moment she actually seemed natural.

Edited October 8, 2015 by HighwayFlower

[apinknightmare]

But, as of this time, vigilantes are still not welcome in the city, right, and the police are after them? 

 

I don't know, is it still an issue? Quentin definitely didn't seem to like them and made a comment or two to that effect, but last season the only one he was really gung-ho after was Oliver. I'm not sure the police are actively after them yet (again) - and yet AGAIN it would be freaking stupid if they were since their city is being overrun with those "ghosts" and they can't do anything about them themselves. Damien Darhk seemed to want Arrow/Oliver gone, so I think the police might START going after them again, on Quentin's (via DD) orders. 

[quarks]

Kudos to the Flash forum for helping me realize just why that Team Arrow response to Oliver's brief leadership attempt felt off to me, even while recognizing why the show did this (inner-team drama and, basically, without spoiling too much, for episode 3)

 

It's not that I don't think that Diggle has a right to be angry, or that the team can't, as individuals, say, erk, no, to Oliver's orders, but this episode aired the night after Flash.

 

During the last season of Arrow, Oliver kidnapped Diggle's wife (bad) and left an adorable little toddler, the hands down cutest character on the show, alone without supervision (very very bad) all in order to take down a villain who in theory was going to destroy the entire city again. He then took off at the end of the season leaving the rest of them to take care of the city, which they were unable to do without him.  The only character who "died" was Ray, which was entirely on Ray, not Oliver.  For this, Diggle is pissed at him, and Laurel and Thea are refusing to take his orders/advice, and the show ends on a "WTF SHOW?" note.

 

During the last season of Flash, Barry ran round and round and round so that he could save his mother, in the process creating a CGI thing that caused extensive damage to the city that six months later, hadn't been totally fixed, and getting Eddie and Ronnie, Iris' boyfriend and Caitlin's husband, actually killed. (Well, ok, no bodies, so comic book lore says I should type that as maybe killed, not actually killed, but moving on.) Barry leaves the team. For this, Iris goes over to Barry and tells him the city needs him and Caitlin tells him that she doesn't blame him, she blames herself.  Joe says that yes, Barry screwed up, but the rest of them did too. Barry is welcomed back and the show ends on a happy note.

 

Now, yeah, Barry's never been the leader of Team Flash - that was Not-Wells last season, and seems to be sort of Joe, Martin and kinda Iris, and Arrow's a much darker show, but the contrast was still pretty glaring, especially since the shows air on consecutive nights. I think originally I just took the scene as Arrow's usual "let's all have people be mean to Oliver" that's basically a staple of the show by now, but still. If Iris and Caitlin can forgive Barry - it's an unfair comparison, but it's still the one I sorta made. 

 

Regarding Laurel's big moment - I thought it was the bike; her hands down best moment of the episode, where she was efficient, focused and effective. Yes, yes, she made the truck explode while Thea and Diggle were still in it, but even with that, her bike/truck chase was the best action moment she's had in the entire series. Clearing people out of a train station, whether adorable kids are involved or not, not so much.

[Primal Slayer]

My point was as my earlier post was about that they are always having everyone praise Laurel when she didn't really do anything.

I saved a two year old from walking right into a pool. I guess should call myself a super hero now.

If you want to. But being called strong doesn't mean "superhero". The kid was enamored with her more or less. It didn't change anything. She isn't going to be going around saying "kid called me strong so HA!" it's a kid, they aren't hard to impress. Getting them a toy could make you their hero.

[Starfish35]

But, as of this time, vigilantes are still not welcome in the city, right, and the police are after them? Laurel just seemed far too comfortable and nonchalant standing there, looking around the precinct, as the other police officers came storming in and that one lady cop talked to Quentin. She should've, at least, looked like she was about to leave to try and keep her secret identity secret, not like she was chums with the police captain.

Exactly. Isn't Quentin supposed to be heading up an anti-vigilante taskforce?

It seems like I remember the "bones" comment being ridiculed on in the TVLine comments for that episode, but it's been awhile.

[foreverevolving]

There's a holster on his thigh. I think...somehow it was supposed to have come from there. 

I know, but the way his hand is moving and how it just "appears" making it look like the gun was being dropped from his arm or magically appeared in his hand.. we've seen Diggle draw before.. it was just so off since we are to assume the cutting from the front to back is a millisecond apart, not enough time to draw without us not seeing it.

[apinknightmare]

I know, but the way his hand is moving and how it just "appears" making it look like the gun was being dropped from his arm or magically appeared in his hand.. we've seen Diggle draw before.. it was just so off since we are to assume the cutting from the front to back is a millisecond apart, not enough time to draw without us not seeing it.

 

Maybe the gloves he has on have magnets on them? So he held out his hand and the gun flew out? IDK

[Sakura12]

Maybe it was just bad editing? 

[SleepDeprived]

I don't know, is it still an issue? Quentin definitely didn't seem to like them and made a comment or two to that effect, but last season the only one he was really gung-ho after was Oliver. I'm not sure the police are actively after them yet (again) - and yet AGAIN it would be freaking stupid if they were since their city is being overrun with those "ghosts" and they can't do anything about them themselves. Damien Darhk seemed to want Arrow/Oliver gone, so I think the police might START going after them again, on Quentin's (via DD) orders. 

 

I kinda thought it is still an issue, just that the "ghosts" are the bigger issue right now. Because Team Arrow sure scrambled to get out of that warehouse quickly once the SCPD came on the scene with guns trained on everyone. So, Laurel, calmly, standing around when the other cops came in the precinct looked really odd that no one thought anything of the masked vigilante having a conversation with the police captain. But, maybe, multi-tasking about apprehending the vigilantes and the "ghosts" are too much to ask for from the SCPD.

[Angel12d]

 

so i guess Diggle's new super power from his suit is being able to summon metallic guns into his hands?

Cause that gun appeared form literally no where.

I guess he stole more than just magneto helmet... 

 

Yassssss! I don't even care because it looks SO COOL. The way he landed in that truck too. Awesome. 

[apinknightmare]

Maybe it was just bad editing? 

 

I've watched it a few times, and it seems like he definitely did a little trick on the draw - I just can't tell what it is.

[Primal Slayer]

But, as of this time, vigilantes are still not welcome in the city, right, and the police are after them? Laurel just seemed far too comfortable and nonchalant standing there, looking around the precinct, as the other police officers came storming in and that one lady cop talked to Quentin. She should've, at least, looked like she was about to leave to try and keep her secret identity secret, not like she was chums with the police captain. Then again, Laurel does sport fingerless gloves so, maybe, she just doesn't care if people find out that the ADA is moonlighting as a vigilante.

Doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Not to mention that the people aren't going to worry about a vigilante when they were just attacked and shot up.

[bijoux]

Yassssss! I don't even care because it looks SO COOL. The way he landed in that truck too. Awesome.

This. It was also my exact reaction to Oliver's flip on the train. Completely bogus but I loved it.

[apinknightmare]

But, maybe, multi-tasking about apprehending the vigilantes and the "ghosts" are too much to ask for from the SCPD.

 

Oh, most definitely. The whole force has a combined IQ of 12. 

[foreverevolving]

oh It was bad editing for sure, but i just found it so funny especially with the Magneto helmet jokes.

This is why proper editing is important. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by foreverevolving

[nksarmi]

Ok I've been avoiding spoilers other than being aware of the general sense of who is going to be on Legends of Tomorrow, so no one laugh their butts off at me, but as of right now, I think I'm just extraordinarily happy that it doesn't look like I'm going to have to deal with anything as annoying as the Merlyn and Ra's plots of last season.  I still can't make either of those plots make any kind of logical sense.  In comparison, I have a hammy, smart, over-the-top mystical villain who simply wants to the destroy the city.  Ok, not overly complex, but these writers are better when they keep it simple.

 

And I don't even think they are going to ask me to excuse Quentin's actions like they did with Merlyn mind-raping Thea to kill Sara, because I'm pretty certain he's in that flash-forward grave.

[Starfish35]

Weren't they talking about an anti-vigilante taskforce in the city council meeting before DD walked in?

[apinknightmare]

Weren't they talking about an anti-vigilante taskforce in the city council meeting before DD walked in?

 

He said they would "get these guys eventually." 

[Angel12d]

Also, the writers went out of their way to suddenly make Diggle an asshole about it. Back in the Season 3 Finale he was last seen to say stuff like "I`m still angry, our trust is broken and I don`t know if I can ever forgive you but I`m still happy for you and Felicity because you deserve to be happy". Now we`re suddenly at "you are just as evil as Ras Al Ghul inside". Holy High Horse Batman. Even Diggle has to know how much bullshit that is.

 

Him being disappointed is fine. He awarded Oliver the place of "brother" which was a big thing for him after Andy`s death and he feels personally betrayed by said brother. But what good does it do to pretend like Oliver has no good sides. He DID help you heal after Andy, Diggle, To trample on that and ignore that is petty and cruel. It`s like a jilted lover who spouts stuff like "I always knew what a waste of space so-and-so aka their former lover was". No you didn`t or else you wouldn`t have been with them. You just insulted yourself way more than you did them, moron.

 

I'm gonna wait and see how it plays out over the next couple of episodes. I think they were really OTT and heavy-handed with the 'Diggle/Oliver bromance is over 5EVA!' thing because it's setting up their relationship moving forward and the audience needed reminding of that. I do think Diggle went too far with some of the things he said but I don't blame him for lashing out. I think part of it is that he hasn't really had any closure on it. Oliver went off into the sunset and has been blissfully happy for 5 months while Diggle has been left to stew and rehash the whole thing in his head. I guess seeing Oliver again made it fresh. I don't know. 

 

See how it plays out. If he keeps throwing OTT jabs at him, I won't like it because I think there's a better way of establishing Diggle being angry and disappointed. But I'm hoping this was more set-up than typical of how it's going to be always.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Angel12d

[apinknightmare]

I would've felt better about the jab IF the writers felt it was necessary for whatever reason if it had come before Lyla had that talk with him about how Oliver doesn't always make the best decisions, and that's why he needs Diggle. Like, she basically told him she was okay with it and he needed to chill, but somehow that made him even more pissed off? Makes no sense. 

[lemotomato]

See how it plays out. If he keeps throwing OTT jabs at him, I won't like it because I think there's a better way of establishing Diggle being angry and disappointed. But I'm hoping this was more set-up than typical of how it's going to be always.

I'm guessing the bad blood will last until

4x03, at least, if episode descriptions are to be believed

[Angel12d]

I actually see this going on a bit longer than that, probably until the crossover. I think we'll see some thawing in 403 and they'll slowly start to rebuild but I think it will take a bit longer than 3 episodes to get them back on track completely.

[bijoux]

I'm gonna wait and see how it plays out over the next couple of episodes. I think they were really OTT and heavy-handed with the 'Diggle/Oliver bromance is over 5EVA!' thing because it's setting up their relationship moving forward and the audience needed reminding of that. I do think Diggle went too far with some of the things he said but I don't blame him for lashing out. I think part of it is that he hasn't really had any closure on it. Oliver went off into the sunset and has been blissfully happy for 5 months while Diggle has been left to stew and rehash the whole thing in his head. I guess seeing Oliver again made it fresh. I don't know.

See how it plays out. If he keeps throwing OTT jabs at him, I won't like it because I think there's a better way of establishing Diggle being angry and disappointed. But I'm hoping this was more set-up than typical of how it's going to be always.

Yeah, Dig was stewing and lashed out. And it's taken me way too long to figure out this is pretty much the same accusation that Felicity hurled at Oliver last year in Sara. It felt wrong then too since if there is one truth about Oliver it's that he feels too much. And now I'm thinking that this is a sign of Dig and Felicity both knowing him and knowing where to hit him to make it really hurt.

I would've felt better about the jab IF the writers felt it was necessary for whatever reason if it had come before Lyla had that talk with him about how Oliver doesn't always make the best decisions, and that's why he needs Diggle. Like, she basically told him she was okay with it and he needed to chill, but somehow that made him even more pissed off? Makes no sense.

I can actually see how that added to Dig's resentment. Lyla is supposed to be his person. Oliver endangered her and their daughter. Then he went off with Felicity, who Dig also saw as the injured party right along with him. And all these people are forgiving Oliver! All it takes is for Sara to ask for him instead of daddy to give her piggyback rides. I see how this could infuriate Dig. Edited October 8, 2015 by bijoux

[apinknightmare]

I can actually see how that added to Dig's resentment. Lyla is supposed to be his person. Oliver endangered her and their daughter. Then he went off with Felicity, who Dig also saw as the injured party right along with him. And all these people are forgiving Oliver! All it takes is for Sara to ask for him instead of daddy to give her piggyback rides. I see how this could infuriate Dig.

 

Yeah, maybe it'd make him angrier. But I still believe the actual sentiment he expressed came from Pod!Diggle.

[Password]

And now I'm thinking that this is a sign of Dig and Felicity both knowing him and knowing where to hit him to make it really hurt.

I winced when I saw this.

[dtissagirl]

They should implement a rule in the writers room that only one of his friends/allies can poop on Oliver's head per episode.

But one thing I thought was interesting is that Quentin called Oliver a monster, and he not only replied that he's not one anymore, but he talked to Felicity about it. He refuted it with actual ease, considering it's Oliver IT'S MY FAULT Queen.

The stuff Diggle said? He took it. And I know it's because they're setting up the biggest possible rift between the two of them so that the fix can be more ~emotionally satisfying~ or whatever, but I thought it was poignant. I don't think Oliver believes the crap Dig was saying, but I think maybe he took it because Oliver thinks Dig needs to punish him. And I'm good with that for now.

[calliope1975]

I do get him being upset about Oliver leaving Sara alone, but I really do not get him being angry about Lyla, a fucking badass chick who holds her own and even SHE isn't mad at Oliver anymore. If Digg hadn't gone all hateful in that train station, I don't think it would be that big a deal, especially since they managed to work together otherwise despite their differences.

 

It makes sense for Diggle to be cold towards Oliver and not want to work with him. I'm even okay with him remaining mad after Lyla has long moved past the incident. It was the can't love anyone line that both dumb and untrue. If anything, Oliver cares too much about people since he's first in line to sacrifice himself when shit goes badly. 

 

Laurel's stupid "bones" comment made me so annoyed and ragey that I missed Waller's saying the same thing.

 

Did the head of CW come up with that line? That's the only reason I could ever understand the repetition. It's a terrible line, it's used terribly, and should be retired immediately. Along with anyone referred to as "saving the world." 

 

 

At that point, or maybe after the whole train station of let's make Oliver feel like crap, I felt Oliver was justified in saying something like: "Hey Felicity, you can do all that stuff remotely, right? From somewhere interesting, as in, not-Stepford, right? Well, we're outta here. Byeee!"

 

Look, Placeholder Team (I love it!), you either need Oliver, or you don't. You want him back, then no matter how butthurt Diggle is gonna be, Oliver's in charge.

 

I agree. You either want Oliver for his experience and knowledge or you don't. I understand Digg's position, but what did Thea and Laurel think was going to happen when he came back. They were going to tell him what to do. The people who clearly are out of their depth and need help. Just once, when he's being bitched at, I want him to peace out. 

 

 

It was amazing. It went from, "Ooh, a game, I like games. I like our games." to, "This is not a good game. I don't want to play this one. Nope. Can't make me."

 

Oh yeah, they play games alright. Um, sorry, I just went NC17 in my head. Carry on.

[mommalib]

It makes sense for Diggle to be cold towards Oliver and not want to work with him. I'm even okay with him remaining mad after Lyla has long moved past the incident. It was the can't love anyone line that both dumb and untrue. If anything, Oliver cares too much about people since he's first in line to sacrifice himself when shit goes badly. 

 

 

Did the head of CW come up with that line? That's the only reason I could ever understand the repetition. It's a terrible line, it's used terribly, and should be retired immediately. Along with anyone referred to as "saving the world." 

 

 

 

I agree. You either want Oliver for his experience and knowledge or you don't. I understand Digg's position, but what did Thea and Laurel think was going to happen when he came back. They were going to tell him what to do. The people who clearly are out of their depth and need help. Just once, when he's being bitched at, I want him to peace out. 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, they play games alright. Um, sorry, I just went NC17 in my head. Carry on.

I agree I just need one scene of Oliver telling them all to kiss his butt.

[MsSchadenfreude]

Really enjoyed this episode and I'm not even bothered by the last scene. It means nothing and I will keep saying that for the next six months.  None of my favorites are going to die.  Nope, not an option.  I will throw anyone else under the bus if I have to, just to keep Felicity and Diggle safe and alive.

 

Digg had some harsh words for Oliver, but it was hard for me to be mad at him when I just kept hearing him say "Who's the cutest?" to baby Sara.  Hi Lyla, how about you stick around for a bit.  Diggle could use some more of your advice.

 

Poor Thea trying to make everyone call her Red Arrow.  I loved Digg's response.  "A red arrow just means you can't make a left turn." Ha!

 

Amanda Waller is still the worst. Seriously Oliver, when are you going to learn this woman can not be trusted.  Don't eat or drink anything she offers you.

Dear Damian Darhk. You are creepy and quippy.  Keep it up and I may just forget the awfulness of last season's big bad.

 

Thea, you may be a little crazy, but at least you are enjoying your vigilanting.

 

Quentin, you suck.  How can you call a man who slow cooks eggs for brunch and puts a ring in a soufflé…a monster.

 

Oliver and Felicity were even better than I thought they would be. Loved that Felicity was the one feeling stifled by life in suburbia.  Loved even more than she was ready to go back to suburbia when Oliver said "they never should have come back to Star(ling) City.  Their argument is the lair was adorable, but also in character.  I can deal with these types of conflicts between them.

 

Oliver's going to propose.  Don't know when but it is going to happen.  I feel it in my bones.  Speaking of bones, can the writers please promise never to have Laurel talk about Oliver's bones ever again.

 

So how long until they build that bedroom set for Olicity? Asking for a friend. :)

[BkWurm1]

It was the can't love anyone line that both dumb and untrue. If anything, Oliver cares too much about people since he's first in line to sacrifice himself when shit goes badly.

 

I wonder if maybe it's the DIggle doesn't believe the Oliver loves him enough to trust him?  It still doesn't quite work since it's a lot easier to love than it is to trust but maybe since DIggle viewed Oliver as a replacement brother, he needed both the love and trust to be equal  - like he might have had with Andy - so not getting the trust convinced him that Oliver isn't capable of that kind of brotherly love. 

 

Or the alternative is that it's a take off of when Felicity told Oliver she didn't want to be a woman he loved since he treated them like crap.  Oliver IMO had a problem in how he demonstrated his love. 

 

 

 

That line legitimately had me wondering if I'd missed something. It was s3 levels of WTfuckery. Saving the kid and winking were fine but then getting praised for literally helping him stand up had me loling so hard. I may or may not have also dubbed myself a superhero too at that point, since I've a 5yr who I've been known to pick up from time to time. 

 

 

  I actually had the same conversation with myself. This it the big issue, the line invited mockery.  They very specifically wrote a "hero" moment for Laurel, but it was incredibly weak and instead of building her up, it's done more to drag her down IMO.  Without that moment, any other complaints were small potatoes.

 

Kudos to the Flash forum for helping me realize just why that Team Arrow response to Oliver's brief leadership attempt felt off to me, even while recognizing why the show did this (inner-team drama and, basically, without spoiling too much, for episode 3)

 

It's not that I don't think that Diggle has a right to be angry, or that the team can't, as individuals, say, erk, no, to Oliver's orders, but this episode aired the night after Flash.

 

During the last season of Arrow, Oliver kidnapped Diggle's wife (bad) and left an adorable little toddler, the hands down cutest character on the show, alone without supervision (very very bad) all in order to take down a villain who in theory was going to destroy the entire city again. He then took off at the end of the season leaving the rest of them to take care of the city, which they were unable to do without him.  The only character who "died" was Ray, which was entirely on Ray, not Oliver.  For this, Diggle is pissed at him, and Laurel and Thea are refusing to take his orders/advice, and the show ends on a "WTF SHOW?" note.

 

During the last season of Flash, Barry ran round and round and round so that he could save his mother, in the process creating a CGI thing that caused extensive damage to the city that six months later, hadn't been totally fixed, and getting Eddie and Ronnie, Iris' boyfriend and Caitlin's husband, actually killed. (Well, ok, no bodies, so comic book lore says I should type that as maybe killed, not actually killed, but moving on.) Barry leaves the team. For this, Iris goes over to Barry and tells him the city needs him and Caitlin tells him that she doesn't blame him, she blames herself.  Joe says that yes, Barry screwed up, but the rest of them did too. Barry is welcomed back and the show ends on a happy note.

 

Now, yeah, Barry's never been the leader of Team Flash - that was Not-Wells last season, and seems to be sort of Joe, Martin and kinda Iris, and Arrow's a much darker show, but the contrast was still pretty glaring, especially since the shows air on consecutive nights. I think originally I just took the scene as Arrow's usual "let's all have people be mean to Oliver" that's basically a staple of the show by now, but still. If Iris and Caitlin can forgive Barry - it's an unfair comparison, but it's still the one I sorta made. 

 

 

I had the same reaction while watching The Flash.   It's just so damn unfair.  Barry almost destroyed the world, did tear apart the city, two of his friends died fixing his mess and six months later, everyone is wearing flash t-shirts at the celebration the city threw in his honor and handed him the key to the city AND evil Dr. Wells left him everything in his will AND left a confession to give him his hearts desire cause even though they were mortal enemies, he still kind of loved him and wanted him to be happy.  REALLY???  Oh and the team finally rallied together and saved the day by figuring out how to KILL the bad guy. Cue high fives!  GO Central City!  Barry is a Hero!  He's not like that broody Arrow.  Again, it's just so not fair!

 

I would be so much more upset if Oliver hadn't just had five months of playing games with Felicity.  I guess that really does even them up. 

 

Oliver and Felicity are so on game it's ridiculous. Him figuring her out and actually tricking her with the bank robberies, I believe, them figuring out the explosives carrying train a breath apart, and the fluidity of him circling the back of her chair, her looking up at him, the head kiss and the shoulder lean. That almost looked like a dance

 

Oliver and Felicity were ridiculously good together. Still not over how good tbh. They were actually exciting to watch and just so in sync and in tune with each other. I'm excited to see how they develop now that they're back in the city but it was an amazing start.

 

Really, if I could underline and add exclamation points to these posts.  This was the exact dynamic that I could see the potential of but even better.  Did anyone else catch that smile on Oliver's face right in the middle of their argument (when she was wishing she found comparing flatware exciting).  Even during an emotional argument (and he was deeply bothered that they hadn't been on the same page) he still couldn't help but find her adorable.  So much goodness. 

[AyChihuahua]

My issue with it is this: how many times over the past three years has Diggle seen Oliver do whatever he had to do to capture the bad guy? Yeah, sometimes he needs a pep talk into doing it, but...just the year before, Oliver handed Felicity-the woman he loved-over to Slade, with absolutely no guarantee that he wouldn't kill her on sight, in order to bring Slade down. He's a cold dude - when push comes to shove, nothing is off limits. 

For me there is a really huge difference between what he did with Slade and what he did with the LOA: information and consent.  Felicity effectively consented to being the lure for Slade, by not saying no/running screaming out of the mansion.  None of the team had information or gave consent for most of what Oliver did re the LOA in the last several episodes.  It's a really important difference; I mean there is a reason the medical field requires INFORMED consent for medical procedures.

Edited October 9, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[BunsenBurner]

When Diggle was on the comms and he referred to BC as Canary I immediately paid more attention to the scene looking for Caity. I was disappointed. For some reason I can't let it go. The BC is not Canary.

Edited October 9, 2015 by BunsenBurner

[kismet]

Life has been a lil crazy for me the last 30+ hrs- so I haven't been able to keep up with the thread. I barely got to watch the parts I missed last night. But here are my thoughts before I get off track with everyone's great ideas.

I liked the episode. It wasn't the best ever ep. But it was good & better than most of s3 EPs.

Olicity is adorable- but I worry there will trust issues with FS keeping secrets. And that concerns moving fwd since this is the 2nd relationship we've seen FS not be openly honest in. I could accept it with RP, I didn't expect it with OQ. I know he's not 100% honest, but he lies about his past not his present & to me that is a big warning sign.

Lance turn coating was not surprising to me. We had basically predicted that. I'm curious as to his motivations.

Diggle was icier than I thought he would be. His lack of emotion makes me think its awhile before our brotp gets back on track.

DD I enjoyed. His swagger is great.

Thea & BC were fine but their addition the fight team wasn't that exciting for me. More excited about TQ trip to crazy town.

The last minute was leaps & bounds better than last premiere's final minute. That is how I love season premiere deaths & time jumps. If I'm being honest it was one of my fav moments of 401. It could be anybody, but its definitely not FS or Dig, so I'm okay with losing anybody else to varying degrees.

[apinknightmare]

For me there is a really huge difference between what he did with Slade and what he did with the LOA: information and consent.  Felicity effectively consented to being the lure for Slade, by not saying no/running screaming out of the mansion.  None of the team had information or gave consent for most of what Oliver did re the LOA in the last several episodes.  It's a really important difference; I mean there is a reason the medical field requires INFORMED consent for medical procedures.

 

He didn't discuss it with Felicity before hand, she basically really didn't have a choice but to consent, because there wasn't any information given to her until Oliver had already put her in the middle of a trap. But I guess I don't think that really matters in the context of my argument, which is more about what Oliver himself was willing to do to win, not what other people were willing to let him do to win. The fact that Diggle knew that Oliver was both willing and able to put Felicity in Slade's hands (without discussing it with her first) without any kind of guarantee of her safety should've been pretty eye opening (if Diggle's eyes weren't already open) about the lengths Oliver was willing to go to in order to win.

Edited October 9, 2015 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

Yeah, because they've never faked us out with a death before, right? It's not like Malcolm, Oliver, Thea, Roy, or 

Sara

, not to mention most of Team Arrow in that stupid episode ending last season, have ever been presumed dead and returned. Oh wait.

Perhaps if they get a new tombstone on the show that precludes them from coming back? The people you mentioned never got a new tombstone on the show, they just used the old ones (if they had 1). IDK, their delusional spin is kinda funny. Maybe that's the difference, it's not a fake out if we made the prop dept make a new tombstone. :)