Episode Discussion: TFGH

[LexieLily]

24 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

The Danny stuff was so anvilicious. Oof.

The only way I will allow Danny's "Do you love mommy?" question to be answered is if Sam is allowed a follow-up question. "No, Danny, ask him if he loves mommy enough to put you and me first ahead of Sonny, Carly, Michael and the mob."

[gp1999]

I loved how Carly told that bitch Ava out. I just hope she finds out that she was the one who was hiding the blanket.

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

The only way I will allow Danny's "Do you love mommy?" question to be answered is if Sam is allowed a follow-up question. "No, Danny, ask him if he loves mommy enough to put you and me first ahead of Sonny, Carly, Michael and the mob."

“I love your mommy because she didn’t care that I killed people for a living and yelled at people who didn’t understand. Any other questions, Danny?”

[Cheyanne11]

Carly is beyond vile.  Ava is spiteful for banning Kiki from seeing Avery when she has custody, but Carly and Sonny are peaches for banning Ava from her daughter?  Seriously, fuck you, show, for having this awful, awful woman be the show's "matriarch."  

[LexieLily]

1 minute ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Carly is beyond vile.  Ava is spiteful for banning Kiki from seeing Avery when she has custody, but Carly and Sonny are peaches for banning Ava from her daughter?  Seriously, fuck you, show, for having this awful, awful woman be the show's "matriarch."  

And what does it even matter that Ava banned Kiki from seeing Avery on her time, when everyone invovled knows that Sonny and Carly will let Kiki see Avery whenever she wants. Now that Sonny and Carly know Ava is opposed to the sisters being together, watch them allow Kiki to spend the day with Avery unsupervised and tell Kiki to make sure to parade the two of you in front of Ava today.

[ulkis]

35 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Carly is beyond vile.  Ava is spiteful for banning Kiki from seeing Avery when she has custody, but Carly and Sonny are peaches for banning Ava from her daughter?  Seriously, fuck you, show, for having this awful, awful woman be the show's "matriarch."  

They both were terrible today. Carly for her smug (and stupid, since it could damage their custody arrangement) way of telling Ava she would never know if someone was supervising Mike and Avery, and Ava for whining to Kevin about Kiki and Griffin.

Today I grant Niina the honorary title of Umily 2.0, since she said "um" between every word and raised her baby voice up to 11.

Jason actually seemed really pleased to see Danny for once.

Kelly Monaco is putting too much product in her hair, or something.

Joss: How could Oscar want to break up with meeeeeeeeeeeeee. Who could think of a single reason!! I can't think of one, and I'm sooooo smart, so obviously, no one else could.

They need to stop putting make-up on that girl. The actress is their age but it makes her look 20 to the boys' 14-5, it's weird.

[gp1999]

On Monday’s episode Dawson told Jason that he makes widows and orphans kids. It made it sound like he just kills innocent people. Jason has only killed when necessary to save himself or someone else he cares about he’s never killed an innocent 

[Melgaypet]

22 minutes ago, gp1999 said:

On Monday’s episode Dawson told Jason that he makes widows and orphans kids. It made it sound like he just kills innocent people. Jason has only killed when necessary to save himself or someone else he cares about he’s never killed an innocent 

Since when do only innocent people have wives and children? Jason and Sonny do. Jason kills to protect his and Sonny's criminal business, let's not get it twisted. He kills other criminals, aka people exactly like himself. If every person Jason has killed deserved to die, then he and Sonny do as well.

[RedRockRosie]

11 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Carly (to Ava): My son is dead because of you, get the hell out of my house!

Me: How come Monica never gets to say this to Sonny and Carly whenever they trample all over the house that Alan gave to her, AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

No Carly. Morgan is dead because that little moobster husband of yours, Morgan's FATHER, put out a hit on someone (Julian) & your sad messed up entitled son happened to try to jack his car. I don't GAF that Sonny-boy tried to call it off...too little & too late. Morgan went boom by  his own stupidity. (OK, I do give Morgan a bit of a pass considering he was off  his meds at the time...and yes Ava was complicit in that, but didn't ever intend bodily harm.) The blame lies squarely on Sonny IMO.

 

(Monica never says that to Snarly because she's better than that.)

[lolziceprincess]

56 minutes ago, RedRockRosie said:

No Carly. Morgan is dead because that little moobster husband of yours, Morgan's FATHER, put out a hit on someone (Julian) & your sad messed up entitled son happened to try to jack his car. I don't GAF that Sonny-boy tried to call it off...too little & too late. Morgan went boom by  his own stupidity. (OK, I do give Morgan a bit of a pass considering he was off  his meds at the time...and yes Ava was complicit in that, but didn't ever intend bodily harm.) The blame lies squarely on Sonny IMO.

 

(Monica never says that to Snarly because she's better than that.)

Olivia Jerome was responsible for the car bomb that killed Morgan, not Sonny. Just so you know.

While Sonny is responsible for a laundry list of messed up shit, killing Morgan was not one of them.

Edited October 5, 2018 by lolziceprincess

[Perkie]

7 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I know JL is overplaying Ryan for the audience's sake, but I wish someone (who knows Kevin pretty well) would start to realize something is a little off with "Kevin."

I actually think people are noticing but Ryan is good at deflecting.  Lucy says he seems grumpy, but then immediately puts the blame on Laura for being away so long.  Laura notices something off, but Ryan plays it that he's sick.  For Felicia, Ryan is trying so hard to be nice so he can get her alone, that she's not noticing any difference yet.  

[Oracle42]

20 hours ago, RedRockRosie said:

your sad messed up entitled son happened to try to jack his car.

No. Morgan didn't have a history of trying to jack cars or steal things from people. That wasn't about entitlement, that was directly related to the fact that Ava stole his bipolar medication and swapped it out for sugar pills. 

I think Monica should be allowed to spit at Carly when they pass on the street, and spray her with bear mace whenever she tries to push her way into Monica's house. By the same token I think Carly should be allowed to make Ava miserable for the rest of her life.

 

 

20 hours ago, RedRockRosie said:

Morgan went boom by  his own stupidity. (OK, I do give Morgan a bit of a pass considering he was off  his meds at the time...and yes Ava was complicit in that, but didn't ever intend bodily harm

Ava doesn't get to use "didn't mean bodily harm" as an excuse. She switched his meds for placebos because she was hoping that he would do something bad enough for KiKi to leave him. She's not responsible for the bomb, but she could reasonably assume that he was going to hurt himself or someone else, she was counting on it. She doesn't get any kind of pass because the damage was worse than she anticipated when she set out to do harm.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Oracle42

[LexieLily]

8 hours ago, ulkis said:

They both were terrible today. Carly for her smug (and stupid, since it could damage their custody arrangement) way of telling Ava she would never know if someone was supervising Mike and Avery, and Ava for whining to Kevin about Kiki and Griffin.

I actually believe that Sonny and Carly do love Avery, as much as they can love any of their collection of kids, but I also wouldn't put it past Carly to knowingly leave Mike and Avery unsupervised (or at least not the supervision Ava is thinking of) solely to piss Ava off, and then act shocked if something awful happened to Avery.

[TeeVee329]

1 hour ago, Oracle42 said:

Ava doesn't get to use "didn't mean bodily harm" as an excuse. She switched his meds for placebos because she was hoping that he would do something bad enough for KiKi to leave him. She's not responsible for the bomb, but she could reasonably assume that he was going to hurt himself or someone else, she was counting on it. She doesn't get any kind of pass because the damage was worse than she anticipated when she sett out to do harm.

I agree with this.  But what I always go back to is the pass that Morgan and Kiki both got for doing the exact same thing during Operation Alcohol.  They switched out Michael's medication for drugs that would impair him and he could have done untold harm to himself or others as a result.  And instead of being dragged day in and day out, they got the lightest slap on their wrists and, outside of Ava's dream, it was never mentioned again.  It's what I hate about Kiki and Ava's relationship, Kiki sitting in judgement of Ava given her own resume.

Edited October 5, 2018 by TeeVee329

[LexieLily]

4 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

I agree with this.  But what I always go back to is the pass that Morgan and Kiki both got for doing the exact same thing during Operation Alcohol.  They switched out Michael's medication for drugs that would impair him and he could have done untold harm to himself or others as a result.  And instead of being dragged day in and day out, they got the lightest slap on their wrists and, outside of Ava's dream, it was never mentioned again.  It's what I hate about Kiki and Ava's relationship, Kiki sitting in judgement of Ava given her own resume.

And what makes Operation Alcohol worse in my opinion is that it was when Michael had custody of infant Avery, which was why they came up with the scheme in the first place, to get Avery back to Sonny. Naturally, Ava was never a consideration. Neither Morgan nor Kiki, or any of the adults in the situation, seemed to grasp that an innocent baby could have been badly hurt or killed because of the drugs Michael was given or if they did, they didn't care. 

[Cheyanne11]

30 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

I agree with this.  But what I always go back to is the pass that Morgan and Kiki both got for doing the exact same thing during Operation Alcohol.  They switched out Michael's medication for drugs that would impair him and he could have done untold harm to himself or others as a result.  And instead of being dragged day in and day out, they got the lightest slap on their wrists and, outside of Ava's dream, it was never mentioned again.  It's what I hate about Kiki and Ava's relationship, Kiki sitting in judgement of Ava given her own resume.

 

Avery could've been harmed or killed while in Michael's care when he was unknowingly drugged...and it's hand-waved away.  JFC, put Avery in a Swiss boarding school--she'd be far better off.  Or ship her off to Jax.  Given Joss claims Avery is her sister, that makes Jax a relative too, right? /sarcasm

Edited October 5, 2018 by Cheyanne11

[tveyeonyou]

21 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

I presume it'll go something like this: "Kevin is acting too strange to be Kevin, he must be his presumed-dead twin brother who was presumed-dead before I even hit Port Charles and I know nothing about, but, bygones, I'm CarlyBraveAndStrongAndSMART so I will crack the case, but I was also be in danger and Sonny and Jason will have to team up to save me and they will and I'll fake laugh and this is just another recycle of the Corinthii having to be wedged into every storyline and also water is still wet."

I think you pretty much just wrote the script for them, although they may add Morgan rising from the dead to rescue her as well because we know that's gotta be coming sooner or later. 

20 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

I just don't see why Carly needs to be involved in the Ryan story at all, given she's already in the baby swap story AND the body nobody cares about story.

Because it's Carly's world, she's the bestest most awesomest everything, therefore we have to watch her be everyone's hero, solve all the problems, have all the answers, be the most talented gorgeous wonderful amazing- oh fuck this, I'm making myself sick writing positive words about Carly. I hate that bitch and pretty much anyone in her orbit (especially Sonny and Jason of course) which is turning into pretty much most of the show, including her IRL man, who isn't really in her orbit on the show but that will change at some point. Everyone eventually ends up in Carly's world.

[NutmegsDad]

21 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Is there a rule that Carly has to be an obnoxious shrew to everyone she comes into contact with aside from a few people? I'm no fan of Ava but she was right when she said Jason would still be drugged up in Russia if it wasn't for her and it would be nice if they were to remember that every once in awhile. Ava didn't have to help Jason escape or use a phone in that facility and if I'm remembering it all correctly, she helped him at great cost to her own self by not getting the surgery she wanted to fix her face. Jason and Carly downplaying it to "she got [me] a paperclip" is obnoxious but sadly in character for both of them. Was that a rewrite when Jason said that he had helped her get the formula to fix her face? I vaguely remember Griffin helping her when she and then-Patient-Six got back to the States.

You're right, but Show can't hear you over Carly and Jason yelling about Ava killing Morgan.

 

21 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Carly (to Ava): My son is dead because of you, get the hell out of my house!

Me: How come Monica never gets to say this to Sonny and Carly whenever they trample all over the house that Alan gave to her, AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

I want to marry this post and have its baby, which will end up hidden in a tree.

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, ulkis said:

Jason actually seemed really pleased to see Danny for once.

I know! Maybe Oscar’s illness has given him something to think about.

[TeeVee329]

8 minutes ago, NutmegsDad said:

I want to marry this post and have its baby, which will end up hidden in a tree.

The post will understand that you were suffering from PPD.

Edited October 5, 2018 by TeeVee329

[NutmegsDad]

2 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

I agree with this.  But what I always go back to is the pass that Morgan and Kiki both got for doing the exact same thing during Operation Alcohol.  They switched out Michael's medication for drugs that would impair him and he could have done untold harm to himself or others as a result.  And instead of being dragged day in and day out, they got the lightest slap on their wrists and, outside of Ava's dream, it was never mentioned again.  It's what I hate about Kiki and Ava's relationship, Kiki sitting in judgement of Ava given her own resume.

* Michael didn't die.

* It's Michael.

 

I was going to mention that "A Jerome didn't do it", but then I remembered Lauren is Ava's daughter, which technically makes her a Jerome, but Show is all but ready to retcon that.

[RedRockRosie]

9 hours ago, lolziceprincess said:

Olivia Jerome was responsible for the car bomb that killed Morgan, not Sonny. Just so you know.

While Sonny is responsible for a laundry list of messed up shit, killing Morgan was not one of them.

Ok. You are right. I had forgotten that it turned out to be Olivia. (Broke my own rule of posting too late at nite. Will I ever learn??)

4 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

Ava doesn't get to use "didn't mean bodily harm" as an excuse. She switched his meds for placebos because she was hoping that he would do something bad enough for KiKi to leave him. She's not responsible for the bomb, but she could reasonably assume that he was going to hurt himself or someone else, she was counting on it. She doesn't get any kind of pass because the damage was worse than she anticipated when she sett out to do harm.

And yeah, when I was writing that it didn't even make sense to me. (Again..see excuse above.) If you screw with someone's meds, you are definitely intending harm of some sort. Think I get tired of Ava always being the most evil horrible person imaginable when Sonny gets a pass for doing the same stuff or worse.

 

I guess I just like MW and take her side more than the character actually deserves. {shrug}

[TeeVee329]

4 minutes ago, RedRockRosie said:

And yeah, when I was writing that it didn't even make sense to me. (Again..see excuse above.) If you screw with someone's meds, you are definitely intending harm of some sort. Think I get tired of Ava always being the most evil horrible person imaginable when Sonny gets a pass for doing the same stuff or worse.

I guess I just like MW and take her side more than the character actually deserves. {shrug}

Ditto.  If the choice is between Ava and whoever is hypocritically dragging her for her behavior when their behavior is the same or worse, it's super easy to take Ava's side.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

Oh. My Gosh.  I DO NOT CARE about Oscar, him dying, and whether or not he and Joss are together.  I do, however, agree with him that going to school is rather pointless. I hate that they made Kim this weirdo who kept this secret for so long.  I hate that Drew is being used here instead of an interesting story. So there you have it.  My emotions for this storyline are hate and boredom.

They still play Jason and Sam's theme when they are on tv together.  It still does nothing to make me care about them.

Kiki and Griffin are both assholes. Ryan can't kill her soon enough.

 

I swear, we should come up with better storylines for these writers.

[Oracle42]

The difference between Operation Alcoholic and what Ava did (and what Carly did to AJ in the 90s) was age and experience. What kind of intelligent woman in her 40s/50s is pulling the same crap as her 19 year old idiot daughter?

I absolutely agree that there should have been long-term consequences for Keeks and the Captain-or any at all. And I agree that Kiki doesn't get to judge her mother for that* given what she's done. But it doesn't make Ava less responsible or less reprehensible.

 

*Using Kiki as a honeypot to reel in Morgan over that mob territory crap? Yes

Screwing Kiki's boyfriend while allowing Kiki to mourn her "death"? Also yes.

Ava is not a good parent.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Oracle42

[TeeVee329]

To repeat myself from yesterday, Kiki and Griffin are trash.  That they've deluded themselves into thinking that THEY'RE the injured parties in this mess with Ava is just insane.

And gawd, more whining from LWB/FS.  I wish Faison had strapped a cinderblock to him when he threw him in that pool.

[Hater]

That Jason and Sam kiss. So bad. That’s all I gotta say.

[LexieLily]

Sam kissed Jason on the cheek to thank him for spending an hour or two of his day with their son, most of which Danny was upstairs and not even in the room, and Jason decides to go in for the mouth kiss. This is what they want the audience to root for?

[Hater]

2 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Sam kissed Jason on the cheek to thank him for spending an hour or two of his day with their son, most of which Danny was upstairs and not even in the room, and Jason decides to go in for the mouth kiss. This is what they want the audience to root for?

The kiss was gross. Burton is horrible on screen with that. It just looks like a platypus trying to eat.

[LexieLily]

Just now, Hater said:

The kiss was gross. Burton is horrible on screen with that. It just looks like a platypus trying to eat.

I don't even know how they got from Legos to that point. Neither of them have shown an iota of romantic interest in each other since SBu returned.

[Linny]

It sure is something to see Kiki and Griffin being a mixture of bashful and horny in the fucking gym of all places like they're stars in a meet cute rom-com (pause for that reference to sail over Griffin's head) instead of a couple of lying cheaters. Does Kiki know he banged Ava approximately twelve hours after their amazing night together? Does she care that part of Griffin's "commitment to reconciliation" with Ava included telling her "I love you" for the first time? No, everything's fine because he was thinking of Kiki the whole time, my mistake. God, they suck so much.

If I looked at the JaSam scenes in a bubble, the clumsy Lego metaphor of putting the pieces together for Danny might work. It's not sexy, but it is appropriately domestic for two people of Jason and Sam's age. But context is everything, and the bigger picture of Jason floating in to Sam and Danny's lives in between taking marching orders from Sonny will not ever work for me. He's not ever going to be a true partner to her or sacrifice for her or do anything that doesn't come at the behest of Sonny and Carly. Sam better get used to picking up those Legos by herself, metaphorically and otherwise, because Jason has shown us repeatedly that his number one will never be her.

[TeeVee329]

It really does feel like someone in production looked at a calendar and was like, "Oh shit, Steve's been back a YEAR!" and they hurriedly whipped up this Jason/Sam moment. 

I don't particularly care about them, or Sam with Drew, but it could have been such a hot, soapy mess of a triangle and it's just the lumpiest oatmeal.

Edited October 5, 2018 by TeeVee329

[Kiki777]

Sam and Jason are such numbskulls that of course it would take the both of them to figure out how Legos work.

[LillyB]

There is absolutely no passion between Jason and Sam why are TPTB trying to make them a super couple.

[LexieLily]

1 minute ago, LillyB said:

There is absolutely no passion between Jason and Sam why are TPTB trying to make them a super couple.

Even if we take Sam/Drew out of the equation, Sam and Jason act like co-parents and casual acquaintances, aside from this out-of-nowhere kiss.

[Hater]

33 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

I don't even know how they got from Legos to that point. Neither of them have shown an iota of romantic interest in each other since SBu returned.

Well yea...Kelly has been playing Sam like a dead fish in scenes with Lassie.  Suddenly Sam is getting duck kissed and it's suppose to be "hot and passionate,"

They just end up giving me the hives.  UGH!!

Edited October 5, 2018 by Hater

[HeatLifer]

59 minutes ago, Hater said:

The kiss was gross. Burton is horrible on screen with that. It just looks like a platypus trying to eat.

Of course it does when his co-star just stands there and doesn’t contribute to, you know, kissing him back.

[Hater]

1 minute ago, HeatLifer said:

Of course it does when his co-star just stands there and doesn’t contribute to, you know, kissing him back.

Ehh..this goes way back now, years of him looking like a horrendously bad kisser.  He was horrible on YR too. He's just not good at love scenes/kissing scenes.

[HeatLifer]

7 minutes ago, Hater said:

Ehh..this goes way back now, years of him looking like a horrendously bad kisser.  He was horrible on YR too. He's just not good at love scenes/kissing scenes.

I’m talking about the scene now. KeMo just stood there while HE kissed HER. This ain’t all him. And it hasn’t been for the year he’s been back.

Edited October 5, 2018 by HeatLifer

[Melgaypet]

NEITHER of them seems to be making the slightest effort. I resist the notion that it's always the female half of an onscreen pairing who is at fault for a lack of chemistry, (I know you're not saying that @HeatLifer.) It's an argument I've seen so many times, not just with Jasam. If there's blame here, I think it's shared between Burton and Monaco. And the writing.

[HeatLifer]

3 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

NEITHER of them seems to be making the slightest effort. I resist the notion that it's always the female half of an onscreen pairing who is at fault for a lack of chemistry, (I know you're not saying that @HeatLifer.) It's an argument I've seen so many times, not just with Jasam. If there's blame here, I think it's shared between Burton and Monaco. And the writing.

In this case, though, I do think it’s more KeMo’s lack of effort than SBu. I’m fine with anyone who disagrees, though. That’s just my particular view from what I’ve seen for the past year. I understand your larger point, for sure.

[Hater]

I still think he's a terrible kisser and nothing will change that. lol. It appears their lips are connecting in a normal way in the preview, I will give them that.  But they do suck together and need to be moved on and it should have happened months ago.   Now this after months of social media drama and it's just so out of left field.  Zero build up or tension between the characters for months.  Actors clearly not wanting to invest in this.   Just let it go.

Unfortunately, Jacrap is an easy thing to do...see Carson, where the same thing is at work.  LW/MB (both imo would like to be MOVED on too!) are terrible together and the writing is awful too.  So I don't see this changing.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Hater

[LillyB]

My feeling is that SB and KM really don't like each other and it shows in their acting.

[Cheyanne11]

Oh, shock: Scout and Danny are spending the night, again, at Monica's.  

And co-signing the "why am I supposed to care about Joss and Oscar?" thought.  Does the show think they're the new Robin and Stone?  Because no, not even close.

[statsgirl]

And today, in couples I don't care about:

Kiki and Griffin decide to hell with Ava, they're going to go all in with each other

Maxie holds Peter's hand to help him go up in the elevator, keeping him from getting his cardio for the day

Cameron finally develops the fortitude to walk out on Joss' and Oscar's drama

Jason and Sam flirt over Lego; Jason shows what a rebel he is by forgoing the instructions; Danny proves he's Jason's son by leaving his parents to clean up his mess

It's statement on the show when one of the best things is Liz and Franco co-parenting (I wonder what's up with Aiden), and Oscar getting angry at Kim and Drew.

I wish they would just let Oscar drop out of school for the moment.  He's still trying to process things, Kim needs to stop pushing him.  Sign up for the trial and see if he gets in.  (Legally I think it's still her decision sine Oscar is only 15.)

9 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

Ava doesn't get to use "didn't mean bodily harm" as an excuse. She switched his meds for placebos because she was hoping that he would do something bad enough for KiKi to leave him. She's not responsible for the bomb, but she could reasonably assume that he was going to hurt himself or someone else, she was counting on it. She doesn't get any kind of pass because the damage was worse than she anticipated when she sett out to do harm.

Wasn't Ava trying to get Kiki away from Morgan?  Meanwhile Carly was guilting her that she had to stay with Morgan because he needed her.   Carly is not entirely blameless in this.

Ava is very far from being a saint, or even being right much of the time. But she does have a sense of shame when she does wrong which puts her way ahead of Kiki and Griffin.

15 hours ago, gp1999 said:

On Monday’s episode Dawson told Jason that he makes widows and orphans kids. It made it sound like he just kills innocent people. Jason has only killed when necessary to save himself or someone else he cares about he’s never killed an innocent 

More than once Jason offered to kill Julian because he was expanding his business and the construction would have revealed Sonny's crime. Whatever else he did previously, in this instance Julian was innocent.

Jason didn't seem upset at all that his son, who he presumably went over to see, is leaving to spend the night with the mother Jason barely acknowledges.  Carly and Sonny steal children; Jason is a cuckoo who leaves his sons to be raised by others.

[Bringonthedrama]

15 hours ago, lolziceprincess said:

Olivia Jerome was responsible for the car bomb that killed Morgan, not Sonny. Just so you know.

While Sonny is responsible for a laundry list of messed up shit, killing Morgan was not one of them.

Olivia was a player in the Mob world, as was Sonny. Morgan grew up in the mob world because his father chose mob life and his mother was his father's enabler/supporter in that life. He is dead mostly as a result of Sonny and Carly's choices. (Olivia's little mob sister Ava switching his meds also played a role in it.) It's a similar situation to tween Michael getting shot in the head. Sonny had his minions hold Johnny Z. prisoner and beat him, believing Johnny was responsible for something that he was not. To get revenge for her brother, Claudia arranged for the hitman doctor to shoot Sonny at his warehouse. The hitman botched the job, and tween Michael got shot instead because he was standing near his father.  Just because Sonny didn't physically plant that bomb or pull that trigger, doesn't mean he is not ultimately responsible for Morgan's death and Michael's bullet to the brain/coma.

[Perkie]

12 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

Morgan didn't have a history of trying to jack cars or steal things from people

Morgan did have a gambling history and a history of drugging his brother and being an all around douchebag.  The Corinthos gene was strong in that boy.  Show tried to tell me that Morgan was different on his meds then off, but the way I saw it, BC played it almost exactly the same.  Douchebag off meds, douchebag on meds.  

 

Now, to play devils advocate regarding Ava (mostly because I adore Maura West and wish poeple would stop piling on Ava when they are just as guilty as she is).  Ava switched the pills because she thought Morgan would do something stupid that would scare off Kiki.  I'm not sure what she thought the next step would be, that  once the two were broken up she would switch the pills back, I don't know.  I guess she didn't think that far ahead.  Ava never intended for MOrgan to die because she switched the pills.  But Morgan being Morgan (see douchebag explanation above), he saw Kiki had moved on, punched out poor TJ then grabbed the car and took off.  And got blowed up real good for his efforts.  Poeple will say that he would have never done that on the meds, but like I say, there wasn't much difference.  

[sunnyface]

Quote

On Monday’s episode Dawson told Jason that he makes widows and orphans kids. It made it sound like he just kills innocent people. Jason has only killed when necessary to save himself or someone else he cares about he’s never killed an innocent 

What do you think that the mob does during their work hours?  They do the stuff that the city/police won't/can't.  They spend their time intimidating, extorting, bribing, stealing, maiming, and killing.  Both Sonny and Jason 'chose' this lifestyle.  These vile thugs decide their own justice.  What a topsy-turvy world these days as when I first started watching this show in the '70s, the main characters were saving (and not killing) people for a living.

[nilyank]

2 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Olivia was a player in the Mob world, as was Sonny. Morgan grew up in the mob world because his father chose mob life and his mother was his father's enabler/supporter in that life. He is dead mostly as a result of Sonny and Carly's choices. (Olivia's little mob sister Ava switching his meds also played a role in it.) It's a similar situation to tween Michael getting shot in the head. Sonny had his minions hold Johnny Z. prisoner and beat him, believing Johnny was responsible for something that he was not. To get revenge for her brother, Claudia arranged for the hitman doctor to shoot Sonny at his warehouse. The hitman botched the job, and tween Michael got shot instead because he was standing near his father.  Just because Sonny didn't physically plant that bomb or pull that trigger, doesn't mean he is not ultimately responsible for Morgan's death and Michael's bullet to the brain/coma.

Olivia planted the bomb in Julian's car because she is crazy. And because she wanted revenge because he was responsible for killing Duke (via Carlos).

While Sonny bore some responsibility for Michael getting shot (Jerry and Claudia), Morgan's death was all Olivia which a big assist by Ava.

[Ambrosefolly]

7 minutes ago, Perkie said:

Morgan did have a gambling history and a history of drugging his brother and being an all around douchebag.  The Corinthos gene was strong in that boy.  Show tried to tell me that Morgan was different on his meds then off, but the way I saw it, BC played it almost exactly the same.  Douchebag off meds, douchebag on meds.  

 

Now, to play devils advocate regarding Ava (mostly because I adore Maura West and wish poeple would stop piling on Ava when they are just as guilty as she is).  Ava switched the pills because she thought Morgan would do something stupid that would scare off Kiki.  I'm not sure what she thought the next step would be, that  once the two were broken up she would switch the pills back, I don't know.  I guess she didn't think that far ahead.  Ava never intended for MOrgan to die because she switched the pills.  But Morgan being Morgan (see douchebag explanation above), he saw Kiki had moved on, punched out poor TJ then grabbed the car and took off.  And got blowed up real good for his efforts.  Poeple will say that he would have never done that on the meds, but like I say, there wasn't much difference.  

 

When it comes to crime, it rarely matter what the intent is, but the outcome. That is why if someone kills someone else during the commission of a crime, they are automatically charged with 1st degree murder. I actually thought it was a highly stupid plan of Ava's. Kiki was already starting to check out of the relationship,  I didn't think Morgan was feeling it much either. It would be much easier to leave an emotional stable Morgan. A Morgan that still "needed" her, different story.