Episode Discussion: TFGH

[TeeVee329]

Anna definitely knows about Helena.  She told Nikolas on NYE that they had an APB out on her, were tracking her down.  Nikolas, because he's a hypocritical douche, declined to mention Helena was hanging out at his house.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

Lulu said that it was a "brief of fresh air" when Johnny reentered her life. I thought that was pure plot point, and not realistic at all. The last times we have seen Lulu, she had baby rabies or was being gossipy good friends with air-head Maxie. Lulu does not seem motivated for an affair.

Edited January 9, 2015 by P3pp3rb1rd

[HeatLifer]

Anna definitely knows about Helena. She told Nikolas on NYE that they had an APB out on her, were tracking her down. Nikolas, because he's a hypocritical douche, declined to mention Helena was hanging out at his house.

I find that so OOC for Nik. So. OOC.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Second UO is I loved Nante and think Johnny needs to be harrassed. I mean the man is a mobster/convict who cheated his way out of prison and had a gun right inside the door and top it off he is working for this %$#*& Fluke. Excuse me if I have no sympathy for this bipolar joker(I swear his weird tics make him seem bipolar for reals)

I guess part of me is old fashion and I love the good guys protecting their women from jerks. I mean from Lulu and Maxie's conversation it is clear Lulu DOES have a soft spot for Johnny and she seemed to kind of expect Dante to confront him. Both Dante and Nathan know Maxie and Lulu are prone to believe the wrong person and be big hearted towards bad guys so I saw nothing wrong with good guys protecting their loved ones.

I mean to me this in no different than Sam's treatment of Jake.

If my husband did the same to an ex of mine who was a bad dude I'd think it was sweet....guess it's just me alone at my table...with my det Special Kitty getting all rough...MEOW!

 

Considering that Dante hangs out with Sonny when said bipolar joker shot him in the chest, it's a bit rich for him to be cutting his eyes at Johnny's attitude about Lulu. He's her husband, not her father. And considering who Lulu's father actually is, I would be a hell of a lot more worried about her being in his vicinity than I would Johnny's. Whether Johnny is in the mob or not, Lulu was a consenting adult when they were together. I didn't like them because I didn't like the last actress who was in the role, but regardless of that she was of legal age. And for another thing, Dante's hands are not clean. He lied under oath about it being Sonny that shot him, and he still speaks to him civilly way more often than I'd like. I like Dante, but his tendency to be Sonny's Son makes him no better than Johnny in my eyes. That marriage license he and Lulu got is not a certificate of ownership. And Nathan and Maxie aren't even married. Hell, they're not even so much a couple as they are a plot point. I like Nathan too, despite RP not really knowing what he's doing acting-wise, but watching him trail after Sonny's Son Dante so they can hector Johnny does not amuse me.

[Cattitude]

I actually liked Luke with Tracy today and thought that Ned has the right amount of energy to be in scenes with Michael. Michael looked better in a shirt and tie with no jacket.

I guess I'm the only one who thinks Nik has chemistry with most women. I wish he and Sam weren't related b/c that had to be the longest I could tolerate her in one sitting and thought she and Nik had some chemistry, but I also think Nik and Liz have really good chemistry...so there's that.

[ulkis]

Considering that Dante hangs out with Sonny when said bipolar joker shot him in the chest, it's a bit rich for him to be cutting his eyes at Johnny's attitude about Lulu. He's her husband, not her father. And considering who Lulu's father actually is, I would be a hell of a lot more worried about her being in his vicinity than I would Johnny's. Whether Johnny is in the mob or not, Lulu was a consenting adult when they were together. I didn't like them because I didn't like the last actress who was in the role, but regardless of that she was of legal age. And for another thing, Dante's hands are not clean. He lied under oath about it being Sonny that shot him, and he still speaks to him civilly way more often than I'd like. I like Dante, but his tendency to be Sonny's Son makes him no better than Johnny in my eyes. That marriage license he and Lulu got is not a certificate of ownership. And Nathan and Maxie aren't even married. Hell, they're not even so much a couple as they are a plot point. I like Nathan too, despite RP not really knowing what he's doing acting-wise, but watching him trail after Sonny's Son Dante so they can hector Johnny does not amuse me.

Dante is worried about Luke's behavior most of thetime. He was the first one to mistrust Fluke when he emerged during Thanksgiving.

Johnny's sold organs on the black market, murdered several people, and sexually violated Connie. Dante's hypocrital when it comes to tolerating Sonny v tolerating Johnny, but when it comes to his actual behavior v Johnny's there's no contest imo.

And even besides that Dante was actually pretty sympathetic towards Johnny yesterday, expressing understanding towards why Johnny killed Anthony and appreciating John standing trial for Lulu.

And Lulu was an adult when she was with Johnny, but barely, and she was pretty much always on the verge of a mental breakdown during that time. It's understandable that he's worried about what Johnny could do.

He was way over the top though.

Edited January 9, 2015 by ulkis

[Cattitude]

I guess part of the appeal to me is Dante and Nathan are policemen. Sorry to say that part of the personality of men who are policeman is to be protective. It stands to reason that women who are attracted to policemen LIKE that kind of behavior. Of course it isn't for everyone but I just liked it and thought it was believable that they would do that. I also thought based on the concurrent conversation Maxie and Lulu were having it wasn't without merit.

 

I guess also I took it as they didn't want a BAD guy around Maxie and Lulu not so much that they were jealous as they didn't like that scum. I've never had the feeling that Nathan nor Dante treat either of them as possessions or that they aren't capable of taking care of themselves. That whole Critten Clark thing they all four seemed to be partners. So I guess I don't get all bent about policemen type good guys BEING the good guys. I see it as protective not possessive or demeaning. I do also think Dante is afraid but no so much of losing Lulu, but more of a negative part of her personality coming out after Lulu herself has worked so hard to get past that part of her life. And again the conversation with Maxie seemed to be in agreement with that fear as Maxie kind of got the same fear for a minute there too.

[Chairperson Meow]

Omg, Jake said "I'd want my loved ones to move on."

What!?!?! As far as he knows, he's been missing for like, 3 months. Already wants his supposed wife to be happy and in love with someone else? Okkkkkk, surrrrre.

Well......... Sam's new boyfriend will be pleased. And he just saved us a lot of bullshit. But I was looking foward to Billy Miller getting super emotional. Wasn't he fucking hired to do that shit? Dammit, make me cry Miller.

I also fully expect Sonny to revive Dave Chapelle's crackhead character from the Dave Chapelle show. "Ya'll got any of those baby mamas?" Or whatever Sonny likes.

[Turtle]

I didn't mind Dante and Nathan getting in Johnny's face too much because I spent most of that scene looking at the pretty and not paying any attention to what was being said.  

 

I like Dante and Lulu being a somewhat stable couple.  I think they've actually done a fairly good job of giving both characters and the couple a fair amount of drama without resorting to the ol' cheating standby (let's ignore the Stavros/ frozen/ Milo situation).  I'd like to see more longish-term couples sticking together and dealing with some of the external drama as a united front.  I think some of that could be just as interesting (or even more so) than a lot of the crap we've been given lately.

 

The best part of today's show, Dante mentioned Johnny's guys!

Soon they'll be in PC, learning all the denizen's secrets, witnessing all sorts of crimes.

 

Johnny's guys don't need to witness the crimes, they are omnipotent.

 

So Julian confessed to a murder he didn't commit because he would rather be in prison than deal with Fluke? Wow. I didn't know what the fuck was going on but I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and assumed this was all a part of some convoluted scheme to destroy Fluke.

 

 

And why in the sam hill would Johnny or Julian be afraid of Bill???  The sense, it makes none of. 

[Chairperson Meow]

Johnny's guys AND the cool penthouse AND Sonny with the beanie of shame in Pentonville? Is it my birthday already?

Or does a certain writer want to make up over a muffin basket?

[Aprilshowers]

I know it's a comment on Mondays show but that baby is so damn cute it hurts. Other random thoughts, sure glad Johnny's out of prison has a home hopefully that means lots of sexy times, don't really care who guy is chem magnet. Finding myself rooting for Liv over Lexis never thought that would happen, ever in the triangle or quadrangle from hell. This Fluke business is so dumb, I feel I'm losing brain cells by the minute watching it.

 

And yes I think the gray paint store is getting some prime advertising from GH these days, yuck.

[HeatLifer]

Well......... Sam's new boyfriend will be pleased. And he just saved us a lot of bullshit. But I was looking foward to Billy Miller getting super emotional. Wasn't he fucking hired to do that shit? Dammit, make me cry Miller.

He's gonna cry when he remembers everything and then has to go find Robin. And he'll tell Sam and Sam's new boyfriend that while he'd like to stay to fill them in on details, he MUST save Robin because ROBIN and how dare they forget about ROBIN. The GH in my head is freaking awesome, dude.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I guess also I took it as they didn't want a BAD guy around Maxie and Lulu not so much that they were jealous as they didn't like that scum. I've never had the feeling that Nathan nor Dante treat either of them as possessions or that they aren't capable of taking care of themselves. That whole Critten Clark thing they all four seemed to be partners. So I guess I don't get all bent about policemen type good guys BEING the good guys. I see it as protective not possessive or demeaning. I do also think Dante is afraid but no so much of losing Lulu, but more of a negative part of her personality coming out after Lulu herself has worked so hard to get past that part of her life. And again the conversation with Maxie seemed to be in agreement with that fear as Maxie kind of got the same fear for a minute there too.

 

A couple of things:

 

At the very least, Dante is aware that Sonny does illegal things to make money. Even if it's "just" collecting protection money from Coleman types, he knows that his father breaks the law on a regular basis. More than that, Sonny shot him in the chest, and he threw away a perfectly good opportunity to get him put away for it, instead opting to go after him for something he actually didn't do. Is that what a 'good guy' does? Sure, you could say that mobsters are prone to shooting unarmed guys, but you could also say that Johnny is prone to doing the same thing. It was supposed to be Dante's job to put Sonny in jail, and like all the other law enforcement types before him, he failed at it. And you could say that everything on this show eventually comes back to kissing Mini McMoobster's ass in one way or another, but I can never enjoy Dante fully, even when he's in scenes with Anna, because of his mob apologism.

 

As for Johnny, ColeandHope got retconned out of existence, and while I enjoyed Papa Z up to a point, its just as well that that crazy old man is dead. Mobsters are mobsters, and if Dante can live with his ":father's" activities without complaining too much, exactly what does he have against Johnny other than the fact that he might not trust his wife, which has nothing to do with anything other than Lulu being who she is.

[loveigniting]

I like Dante, but his tendency to be Sonny's Son makes him no better than Johnny in my eyes.

 

 

I think both Dante and Nathan were ridiculous and levels of pound-my-head-against-a-wall today for all the reasons already stated, but I can't agree with this and this is basically a moral equivalence fallacy.

 

There's no moral equivalency between murder, running strip joints like Vaughns' where women are exploited (I have nothing but respect for women who strip but none for the men who make money off of female bodies), rape (Johnny and Sonny sleeping with Kannie was rape people can fight me about this), whatever other direct involvement Johnny had with the mob that I didn't care about and being an apologist that lied about Sonny shooting him. Yes, Dante had a duty and he could have saved us a loooot of grief if he hadn't lied about Sonny but his offenses are not the equivalent of Johnny's direct involvement in criminal and sexual crimes. Johnny's not an awful person and he claims to regret a lot of the things I listed just like Dante claimed to regret lying about Sonny shooting him, but this isn't even close and it's a moral equivalence fallacy to equate their collective actions.

 

That said, I disliked both Dante and Nathan today because they were being possessive assholes but it didn't help me like Johnny any better heh. Only thing that might make it better is if Lulu and Maxie find out and call both men out for their behavior. 

Edited January 9, 2015 by loveigniting

[yowsah1]

Patrick will now be referred to as "Sam's new boyfriend" because that is all he is.

 

... and because "The Guy Who Wants To Get Into Sam's Pants" takes too long to type.

[Artsda]

Since Cole and Hope got retconned out of existence out of Johnny's life, doesn't that mean Johnny and Lulu are still partners at the Haunted Starr? Johnny gave Starr his shares over Cole/Hope, if that whole thing never happened now then Johnny should still own his shares. 

 

RC did his homework to also have Johnny and Lulu talk about how they first met when she was hitchhiking and he picked her up. So I do wonder if he'll give Lulu something to do again by wanting to work. Since Johnny's her "breath of fresh air."

Edited January 9, 2015 by Artsda

[ulkis]

I think if anything Lulu will be the one to offer him work.

[Lola16]

When Liz was talking on the phone NYD, she asked about Cameron's NYE.  Doesn't she have another son?

 

Avery Jerome?

I thought Connie scrawled A J.  Not A V.

If the kid doesn't get Sonny's last name, then any A first name would fit.  Anne, Abigail, Amoral.

 

Seriously. I mean, hell. At least have Hells hire a woman to pretend to be his wife. Like, make it soapy as shit.

Maybe she can hire the woman who played Mickey Diamond's sister.

 

He looks like that dude in those Trivago commercials who hasn't gotten enough sleep, has no new clothes and might have been out of work for a few years but is just trying to show up for you before he shoots himself in the mouth.

No!  That Trivago dude is so creepy even after his 2nd make-over.  And his torso is so long compared to his legs.  Agent Sloane doesn't bother me - sure he's stiff but no worse than Det West.

 

Maybe its because its so effing cold right now, but I just couldn't stand the sight of Lulu in a sleeveless dress in upstate New York in January. 

And Ric leaving his hotel room without a jacket to drive Liz home.  Brrr!

 

I figured Fluke's comment that Luke smelled implied he hadn't had potty breaks. 

Maybe the guy who was watching Faison is watching Luke.  By now with no fluids, Luke would not be conscious.  Guess this is how they'll look Helena in.

 

I love how people can confess to a crime and be sent to prison in a matter of hours/days.

And how some can be released as quickly.  Except Carlos who had to wait for a hearing to be released.

 

Why didn't Julian and Carlos plant a dead body and call it Julian?  Makes more sense than confessing to the Z murder.  Especially since Fluke will figure out Carlos must've helped.  Or better yet, they could have capped Fluke's ass once and for all.  A girl can dream.

[jsbt]

I feel like this story with Lulu and Johnny is supposed to be addressing complaints that Lulu is boring, too preoccupied with babies, etc.  But of course, Ron is going about it completely the wrong way.

 

Really. I love Brandon Barash and have always liked Johnny, but what is the point of this? Why would she go back to that life? She has no reason to. I don't think anything she said to Johnny the other day with that very purple and theatrical speech about driving fast made sense for the character they have been showing for the last several years, who hasn't seemed to be anything but blissful (too much so, at times) in her life with Dante and her child. There are other more organic ways to introduce some new conflict.

 

As for Johnny's rap sheet, AFAIC all the OLTL shit still exists and is canon, they just don't talk about it. I take the lack of mention of Cole and Hope to be because Starr found them alive and well in Los Angeles, and that's why she left and never came back. It was hinted at before she left - when she visited the spot where they died - and I was always confident Ron would someday resurrect one or both of them.

[sometimesfan]

Really. I love Brandon Barash and have always liked Johnny, but what is the point of this? Why would she go back to that life? She has no reason to. I don't think anything she said to Johnny the other day with that very purple and theatrical speech about driving fast made sense for the character they have been showing for the last several years, who hasn't seemed to be anything but blissful (too much so, at times) in her life with Dante and her child. There are other more organic ways to introduce some new conflict.

 

As for Johnny's rap sheet, AFAIC all the OLTL shit still exists and is canon, they just don't talk about it. I take the lack of mention of Cole and Hope to be because Starr found them alive and well in Los Angeles, and that's why she left and never came back. It was hinted at before she left - when she visited the spot where they died - and I was always confident Ron would someday resurrect one or both of them.

 

I was under the belief that GH can't mention anything about the OLTL stories or characters, thus Sam never tried to move on until Silas, Carly never knew Todd, and Michael was never involved with Good Old What's Her Name.

[Artsda]

They can't mention them or the stories at all. Johnny confessed to killing Hope and Cole and was arrested for it too, but now it's only the Anthony murder they claim he was arrested for and he let go because of. No mention of his other crimes involving Hope/Cole/Starr, which is probably why they'll go right back to him still being Lulu's partner or retcon to say he gave her full control.

 

I do think they need to make Lulu more of a Spencer and less of a bore. So if getting back involved with a mobster does that, it does fit the real Lulu Spencer character she used to be more like. She used to have more spunk and get bored not doing anything, she used to want a career. Speaking of which, so did Maxie. Both of them are now like housewives with nothing to do but wait for their cop men. Guza wrote them both better, career wise.

[ulkis]

Really. I love Brandon Barash and have always liked Johnny, but what is the point of this? Why would she go back to that life? She has no reason to. I don't think anything she said to Johnny the other day with that very purple and theatrical speech about driving fast made sense for the character they have been showing for the last several years, who hasn't seemed to be anything but blissful (too much so, at times) in her life with Dante and her child. There are other more organic ways to introduce some new conflict

 

Not only did it not make any sense for her character, it just didn't make any sense in general? This is what I heard:

 

Johnny: Did you ever wonder. . . sometimes . . . what would have happened if we just drove away in that car . . . 

Lulu: yeah . . . sometimes . . . inside me  . . . there are these moments . . . 

Johnny: Yeah. Patches of black ice   . . . you just slide on them . . . . go out of control . . . 

me:  . . . eh??

 

I mean, I kinda got it . . . it just was not written very well at all

Edited January 9, 2015 by ulkis

[Turtle]

When Liz was talking on the phone NYD, she asked about Cameron's NYE.  Doesn't she have another son?​

 

Well, sure, but Jake is dead.  Oh, wait - do you mean Aiden?  Oh, no, we don't talk about him.  He only ever existed as a plot point between Lucky and Nik, and now that Lucky is "in Ireland", there's no need to ever mention Aiden again.  Apparently.  

 

Which, honestly, is ridiculous.  It would be great to SORAS Cam and the other kiddie quad members to teenagers, and then have Aiden and Danny and possibly even Avery or whatever other baby-sized kids are around be the new little-kid set.  Summer's coming up, and we have no teens around.  Last year we only had Molly/ TJ/ Rafe, right?  And that wasn't great (understatement of the year).  I like a good teen story in the summer, so let's make some of these kids teens.  

 

I really can't get too worked up about Dante telling Johnny to stay away from Lulu.  Sure, it's not ideal, but it's not the worst thing in the world.  And I didn't see it as Dante taking away Lulu's agency at all.  He wasn't acting like Lulu had no say in what happened - he was saying "Hey, dude, I know you have a history with my wife, and you really did a number on her before; I don't want to see her hurt again, so keep your distance."  Dante seemed to be pretty honest with Lulu about his thoughts re Johnny, so it's not like he was running around town chest-beating and dragging her by the hair (hyperbole, obviously).  

 

ETA: the conversation with Lulu & Johnny was weird, and when she admitted that she sometimes thought about him, my eyes rolled near seizure-inducing levels, but I hand waved it as nothing more than awkward exposition for people who weren't watching when Johnny was around before, to fill people in on his history with Lulu.  I saw the scene with Carly & Olivia the same way.  

Edited January 9, 2015 by Turtle

[ulkis]

They can't mention them or the stories at all. Johnny confessed to killing Hope and Cole and was arrested for it too, but now it's only the Anthony murder they claim he was arrested for and he let go because of. No mention of his other crimes involving Hope/Cole/Starr, which is probably why they'll go right back to him still being Lulu's partner or retcon to say he gave her full control.

 

I do think they need to make Lulu more of a Spencer and less of a bore. So if getting back involved with a mobster does that, it does fit the real Lulu Spencer character she used to be more like. She used to have more spunk and get bored not doing anything, she used to want a career. Speaking of which, so did Maxie. Both of them are now like housewives with nothing to do but wait for their cop men. Guza wrote them both better, career wise.

 

Yeah, and most of the time when she had a career she was with Dante. When she was with Johnny, she was in a mental hospital. Not that they can't switch that around, but when Lulu was with Johnny, it was one of the most vulnerable times of her life.

[Lillybee]

I also thought that Dante made a point that he didn't want Lulu hanging with Johnny because of his mob life-style could put her in danger,

unlike hanging with Sonny which really didn't.

[jsbt]

They can't mention it, but the stuff happened. They did spend a few weeks referencing Michael's "girlfriend" after Starr left. It's debateable whether it's been entirely retconned out of continuity, but I personally choose not to believe so. And I know that sooner or later, for better or worse, ABC will have the rights back and it'll all be moot.

 

Lulu's whole Johnny monologue was clearly some daily writer's little labor of love, but it was just so over-embroidered. I just didn't understand why they were going there at all with her character, and it was sort of quasi-theatrical.

Edited January 9, 2015 by jsbt

[P3pp3rb1rd]

You mentioned that you weren't around during BB's first run.  He always played Johnny this way in that he always gave his all.  I can see why those who didn't watch his first run don't get why those of us who did love him so much.

 

 

.. Through his time on the show we got such a fully-rounded character with Johnny.   He tried to get out of the mob lifestyle, he kept getting drawn back in.  He tried to be the good guy.   He was fun, funny, sexy, tragic, good/bad, made horrible mistakes, tried to make up for them, failed, tried to redeem himself, succeeded or mostly failed and finally was pushed too far by his evil father and then Johnny killed him (and HopeandCole) in a horribly reckless moment that haunted him.  There was just SO MUCH to the character and, again, BB always gave his all.

 

Well this is good news considering the phone-it-in, stuttering, bumbling approach that we have had to suffer through with the actors who play Sonny and Luke. Lots of viewers would possibly return to GH if we could see acting like you describe. If only Ron wouldn't mess it up with his plot-point writing, stoopid masks, overnight couple crackups and get-togethers (with no development or motivation), etc etc.

 

[P3pp3rb1rd]

Oh please...Lulu is losing brain cells around Maxie these days. The two remind me of the needy, sarcastic, gossipy blond mob molls of the '40's on Turner Classic Movies who pop their bubble gum, flutter eyelashes, and file their nails while dressed to the nines. It was TMI all the way when Maxie was reporting her multiple orgasms and wasted breakfasts to bug-eyed BFF Lulu. Lu-Girl apparently hasn't been experiencing that kind of excitement in awhile, since she pronounced that Johnny is her "breath of fresh air" (a poetic way to express "next fuck").

 

Let's face it: Maxie, Lulu, Dante, and Nathan have regressed to being the teen set of General Hospital,  screwing their brains out, gossiping to each other afterward, and threatening other studs in the vicinity with childish jealousy. Could it be that Kiki has now reached a higher level of maturity than Maxie, given that Keeks apparently can take care of a baby's needs properly? Someone needs to snark directly to Maxie that playing with your baby and/or staring at her for hours does not mean that you have mastered parenthood!

 

And even though Lulu can apparently take care of a baby's needs, she is rapidly failing Marriage 101 by yearning after hot stud Johnny and  the angst and immaturity of her time with him. In the same breath, Lulu was telling us how much she liked her peaceful world and how she is tempted by the memories of unstable times with Johnny. Gah!

 

And Nathan...Nathan is Maxie's new boy-toy, her shiny thing. She wants to see what she can get out of this new toy. Nathan is also rapidly losing brain cells around Maxie.

[CPP83]

Nathan is also rapidly losing brain cells around Maxie

 

 

 

 

Well to be fair to Maxie, and I am not one who normally would be, Nathan didn't come to the party with a head full of those to start with.

 

Imo Ron has always written Nathan out to be a sort of living Ken doll, with the brains to go with. The focus has always been on his physical state, the so called "perfect body", which apparently he can't keep clothed to save his life, and a good head of hair. Beyond that he may as well be a poseable doll, the way he moves, speaks, even smiles, it's all so artificial looking to me.

 

I am not overly impressed personally with Brandon as Johnny, I like seeing an actor not just drag around in their scenes however so I do appreciate his energy, but seeing him going toe to toe with Ryan was like watching a heavyweight take on an elementary school kid.

 

On the one hand you have a guy, Brandon, who is cracking one liners, being witty, sarcastic, and generally acting rather obnoxious but it's all apart of the act, then there's Ryan who basically stands still, blinks, and then waits for his cue to grab Brandon and put him up against the door. The two performances were night and day to me.

 

I've nothing against Ryan, he seems like a sweet enough kid, but acting is just not his thing imho. All I've ever seen him do is go through the motions just like any good model who's used to taking direction can. He's used to being ordered around and told what to do and how to do it, how to look at the camera or away from the camera, shirt on, shirt off, pants on or pants off, etc.

[MSquared]

Really. I love Brandon Barash and have always liked Johnny, but what is the point of this? Why would she go back to that life? She has no reason to. I don't think anything she said to Johnny the other day with that very purple and theatrical speech about driving fast made sense for the character they have been showing for the last several years, who hasn't seemed to be anything but blissful (too much so, at times) in her life with Dante and her child. There are other more organic ways to introduce some new conflict.

 

As for Johnny's rap sheet, AFAIC all the OLTL shit still exists and is canon, they just don't talk about it. I take the lack of mention of Cole and Hope to be because Starr found them alive and well in Los Angeles, and that's why she left and never came back. It was hinted at before she left - when she visited the spot where they died - and I was always confident Ron would someday resurrect one or both of them.

 

I can believe that she wnet to LA and was reunited with Hope, but as far as Cole is concerned...he can stay DEAD DEAD DEAD.

 

They can't mention it, but the stuff happened. They did spend a few weeks referencing Michael's "girlfriend" after Starr left. It's debateable whether it's been entirely retconned out of continuity, but I personally choose not to believe so. And I know that sooner or later, for better or worse, ABC will have the rights back and it'll all be moot.

 

Lulu's whole Johnny monologue was clearly some daily writer's little labor of love, but it was just so over-embroidered. I just didn't understand why they were going there at all with her character, and it was sort of quasi-theatrical.

 

Jsbt, I live in fear of them getting those right back.  I fear that if that happened, they'll try to swing back to Todd, Starr and John (although I admit he does seem out the door soon) and Ron will rev up the stories he waas forced to abandon because of the lawsuit.

[Chairperson Meow]

Since Silas is busy raising Daughters of the Mob (Joss is probably stashed in his closet), then Johnny must be the new/revived audience avatar. He banged his head on the wall during a scene with Nathan, and I was like I feel that way when RP tries to act sometimes too. I also feel that way when the writers have Dante use the I forgot my bio dad is Sonny "logic" to say the mob is evil. He watched your son, Ross Gellar hair. I do see we are back to status quo in Port Charles. Johnny can't have his coffee without everyone barging in. God, Dante, he didn't buy Lulu a Cinderella bracelet or anything.

So Sam left her boyfriend to run to The Island of Creepy? How does it feel, Sam's Boyfriend?

ETA: I thought that bush that was moving while Starr and Michael. ....um She Who Never Came to Port Charles and Michael Quartermaine were at the non existant crash site.....was alive Cole? So therefore She is with Colenhope?

Edited January 9, 2015 by Grrpants09

[sometimesfan]

Johnny has been written one-note so far, but Brandon Barash is a damn fine actor, one of the better ones the show has had in the last decade or so, I think.  RC/FV were idiots to let him go in the first place.  Gorgeous, chemistry up the wazoo with just about everyone, and a great actor who can play just about any note (comedy, drama and everything in between) and who gives his all.

 

And he played the piano too and played it WELL!

[Fylaki]

I may need to move this to unpopular opinions but if my father shot me in the chest; I would forgive him and lie for him. He's my Father after all.  I am trying not to color my opinion with my Sonny hate and if I remove the fact that it is SONNY, then yeah I'm with Dante. I am just not sending my father to jail. Just like he would not send me. Blood is thicker and family first. Maybe it is the Albanian in me

[Cattitude]

You know as with Anna I have really tried to see it but this Johnny guy is NOTHING but a common thug with weird tics and a bipolar manner. I thought it bad enough he killed ONE person but now I'm hearing he killed like 3 people. I truly just don't get how that makes him any less a thug than Sonny, Ava, Franco et al. I can't understand how he can be someone to root for OVER the police. I also don't see any stellar acting. He is fine as soap actor but no better than half the cast and he is not attractive to me at all.

 

Why is it hard to believe that Nathan would be worried for Maxie to be around him or that Maxie would be mad that Nathan is trying to protect her? I mean one reason she loves Nathan is b/c how he acted about Levi who snowed her and Nathan was willing to look bad in her eyes to protect her from him? I see this Johnny person doing the same thing. He goaded Nathan to his face and let me guess around Maxie he'll be all suave an flirty. ugh! While what Johnny said about Lulu wasn't disrespectful what he said about Maxie kind of was.

 

End of the day Johnny lied to Lulu to get her sympathy and support and Dante KNOWS he did this.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Cattitude

[IWantCandy71]

So after watching Johnny with Fluke yesterday, I've come to the realization that the identity of Fluke is not in what they are telling us, but rather in what they are showing us as far as character actions, and reactions. Someone previously stated that no way would Johnny or Julian be scared of Bill Eckert. I've thought the same. I also thought recently, no way would Cesar and BE ever work together or trust one another. No matter if BE went full on Darth Vader-no way would they willingly trust each other.

 

And then, there's the stuff yesterday. The way Johnny played with Fluke's face. If Carlos or Julian even tried that, Fluke would have given them the Death Stare. Johnny does it-and Fluke doesn't step back from Johnny invading his personal space. He doesn't flinch when Johnny touches him, and most importantly-he lets him do it. Sure, he slapped his hand away at the end, but it's obvious these two know each other on a personal, intimate level. There's a level of affection and trust there. If indeed he is who Johnny thinks he is. Considering the time line, though. Johnny's been in jail the last several years and Fluke has been supposedly free with Luke's face. So, that would mean they knew each other before Johnny went to jail.

That really only leaves Anthony or possibly Trevor Lansing as the true identity of Fluke. I think Gino would be a great fun twist, but IMO it'll end up being Anthony in the end.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I really don't want Julian in jail with Sonny, especially if Sonny is wearing that ridiculous toboggan. 

You had me confused for a moment; where I live a toboggan is a wooden sled, so I had quite the "WTF? Is Sonny pretending he's crazy?!?" image in my mind. LOL!! 

(We call that hat a toque) 

 

You joke, but there is some poor beaten, bleeding part of my soap-watching soul that still believes this. I am a foolish fool.

You are a beautiful dreamer : )

 

I also fully expect Sonny to revive Dave Chapelle's crackhead character from the Dave Chapelle show. "Ya'll got any of those baby mamas?" Or whatever Sonny likes.

Now I need this character to wander by in the background of a scene somewhere! 

 

Johnny has been written one-note so far, but Brandon Barash is a damn fine actor, one of the better ones the show has had in the last decade or so, I think.  RC/FV were idiots to let him go in the first place.  Gorgeous, chemistry up the wazoo with just about everyone, and a great actor who can play just about any note (comedy, drama and everything in between) and who gives his all.

Don't forget that smile of his. The one that turns women to mush? That smile? 

 

 

I've never seen BM's work before, so is it safe to assume potential is being wasted? 

[Cassiopeia]

 

I've never seen BM's work before, so is it safe to assume potential is being wasted?

 

Billy Miller is great at playing "lovable fuck-up," which was his role on Y&R. But that's how he's playing Jason and, at least for me, that doesn't work for the role of mob hitman. I loved him on Y&R, but am starting to hate him now. I'm not sure how much of that is because of the acting, writing, or just because he's a Liz and Carly apologist. 

[hcs]

Err when hasn't the holy hit man been a Liz or Carly apologist. It is the on thing RC got right about his character.

[CPP83]

I've never seen BM's work before, so is it safe to assume potential is being wasted?

 

 

 

Ehhh...heh. For me it's a toss up really. He's not terrible, I have never thought he was downright amazing or anything but he's decent. I do think though that this Jake/Jason role isn't really working out because, as usual, Ron got the actor he wanted to cast in the role and that's about all the thought and preparation he bothered to put in, imho.

 

 

 

I can't understand how he can be someone to root for OVER the police

 

 

 

When Dante and Nathan showed up on Johnny's doorstep they were not there on police business but a personal vendetta. They did imply that they could use their jobs to make Johnny's life difficult, but again that was their way of sticking it to him.

 

Johnny is no different than the other law breakers in town, which is why it's rather an even playing field between them anyway.

 

Dante should have lost his badge when he covered for Sonny and got him off the hook for shooting him, so really he's damn lucky he even gets to still claim to be an officer of the law. And as for Nathan, he hasn't directly broken the law yet, I believe, but he has shown he doesn't mind skirting around it, such as when he asked Dr. O to "help" with the judge letting Maxie see her daughter, knowing full well what that probably meant and yet he didn't care.

 

Nathan and Dante aren't real cops, they're soap cops which mean they're no more so moral or immoral than the other characters half the time.

 

I didn't like that they showed up to Johnny's apartment to play shitheads with badges, I don't like seeing two grown men behave like school yard bullies because they're insecure.

 

Not to mention the fact that if Lulu and Maxie need to be babysat to ensure they don't rub elbows with their criminal ex then they all have far bigger problems than Johnny. There's nothing more disgusting, imho, than seeing a grown woman made out to be some wall flower who's too trusting and naive for her own good.

[TeeVee329]

A smidge off-topic: While I've always been extremely lukewarm on Will/Sonny on Days (Days just isn't my soap and I think they patted themselves way too hard on the back re: their gay storytelling given they sat back and let most of the other modern soaps go first and then cribbed most of the early stuff from AMC, ATWT, and OLTL), I am happy to see that, in their current storyline, they're being treated like any other couple in the soap genre.

 

And then I look at our gay characters and I'm just like, siiiigh, off-screen and underwritten.  There's some semi-promising spoilers for Lucas, but Ron needs to turn some focus away from the kids and Nathan's abs and write something for Lucas and Brad (though Felix may continue to remain off-screen).  I'm not even expecting a GH version of Kish, just..something better.

Edited January 9, 2015 by TeeVee329

[peachmangosteen]

Johnny's sold organs on the black market, murdered several people, and sexually violated Connie. Dante's hypocrital when it comes to tolerating Sonny v tolerating Johnny, but when it comes to his actual behavior v Johnny's there's no contest imo.

 

Yea, I mean, it's hard to argue that Dante is a 'bad guy' and Johnny is a 'good guy.' The problem I have with Dante is his attitude. Like, honey, you broke the law to protect a mobster, so maybe get off you high horse sometimes. It was worse when he was being an OTT asshole to AJ though because there was no real reason for it. I guess AJ did kidnap Michael/Morgan, so maybe Dante wouldn't love the guy, but he acted like AJ was the devil and deserved to be killed or something. With Johnny, he has even more legit reasons to not like the guy, but he went way OTT with his attitude again there. And it came off even more annoying to me because, like you said, he had just said that he could understand why Johnny did some of the things he did.

 

I see what you're saying about not letting your father go to jail, Fylaki, but IMO it doesn't quite track with Dante because he never knew Sonny was his father so he didn't have some deep connection to him. And he seems to pride himself on being a cop and a good guy, so it makes him come off super hypocritical.

 

And then, there's the stuff yesterday. The way Johnny played with Fluke's face. If Carlos or Julian even tried that, Fluke would have given them the Death Stare. Johnny does it-and Fluke doesn't step back from Johnny invading his personal space. He doesn't flinch when Johnny touches him, and most importantly-he lets him do it. Sure, he slapped his hand away at the end, but it's obvious these two know each other on a personal, intimate level. There's a level of affection and trust there. If indeed he is who Johnny thinks he is. Considering the time line, though. Johnny's been in jail the last several years and Fluke has been supposedly free with Luke's face. So, that would mean they knew each other before Johnny went to jail. That really only leaves Anthony or possibly Trevor Lansing as the true identity of Fluke. I think Gino would be a great fun twist, but IMO it'll end up being Anthony in the end.

 

I didn't think about that but these are actually really great points. Although I'm not sure the writers think that deeply about things. I gotta say I would love it if Fluke turns out to be Anthony. It will not make sense on any level, except the Sonny angle. And Anthony was what, 5 feet tall? Luke is 6 ft tall. That is so hilarious. I love it! I hope you're right.

Edited January 9, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[CPP83]

I may need to move this to unpopular opinions but if my father shot me in the chest; I would forgive him and lie for him. He's my Father after all.  I am trying not to color my opinion with my Sonny hate and if I remove the fact that it is SONNY, then yeah I'm with Dante. I am just not sending my father to jail. Just like he would not send me. Blood is thicker and family first. Maybe it is the Albanian in me

 

 

I'll reply to this in the Sonny thread.

[dubbel zout]

Ned has the right amount of energy to be in scenes with Michael

 

I liked their talk, too. I wish Ned hadn't brought up Edward being proud that Michael was at ELQ—one thing I've always disliked about the Qs is their slobbering over Michael like he's going to be the family savior or something (that's Jason's job; heh)—but I liked that Ned acknowledged it couldn't be easy for Michael to cut Sonny out of his life even as Ned understands why Michael did it. It's good Ned wasn't gloating about Sonny getting his. That wasn't the time or place for it.

 

Since Johnny's her "breath of fresh air."

 

WTF was that?! And why is Lulu fondly remembering a time in her life when she was thisclose to a nervous breakdown? Ugh.

 

And as for Nathan, he hasn't directly broken the law yet,

 

He lied for Maxie during the custody trial. Perjury is a crime.

 

he never knew Sonny was his father so he didn't have some deep connection to him.

 

What do you mean, no deep connection? They both love pasta! That's a connection nothing and no one can break.

Edited January 9, 2015 by dubbel zout

[peachmangosteen]

What do you mean, no deep connection? They both love pasta! That's a connection nothing and no one can break.

 

This is a fair point. My apologies.

[CPP83]

He lied for Maxie during the custody trial. Perjury is a crime.

 

 

 

Oh that is right. I'd forgotten all about that. These PC cops certainly do like to lie on the stand it seems.

 

notLuke can't be Anthony unless they really just have given the fuck up with the whole thing, because Julian and he have nearly twenty years of history together, as he's the one who gave Julian the money necessary to create his "Derek Wells" brand with the paper while getting back into the business.

 

notLuke looked like Luke even then according to Julian, so clearly Ron wants to make damn sure we know he isn't wearing a "mask", it's his real face unfortunately.

[Tiger]

Itssmidge off-topic: While I've always been extremely lukewarm on Will/Sonny on Days (Days just isn't my soap and I think they patted themselves way too hard on the back re: their gay storytelling given they sat back and let most of the other modern soaps go first and then cribbed most of the early stuff from AMC, ATWT, and OLTL), I am happy to see that, in their current storyline, they're being treated like any other couple in the soap genre.

 

And then I look at our gay characters and I'm just like, siiiigh, off-screen and underwritten.  There's some semi-promising spoilers for Lucas, but Ron needs to turn some focus away from the kids and Nathan's abs and write something for Lucas and Brad (though Felix may continue to remain off-screen).  I'm not even expecting a GH version of Kish, just..something better.

 

 Felix & Will would make a great couple.

 

It's a shame soaps aren't like sports where characters/actors could be traded.  We could trade Felix for Sonny or Paul.  Heh, the farmer's name could result in some hilarious misunderstandings like someone telling Carly they saw Sonny making out with Lucas.

[Gigi43]

I need a Johnny/Michael scene soon. I think that could really bring out the better side of Johnny. Sonny hate aside, he always felt bad for, at times protective of, Michael, because he could relate to being born in the mob life and aside from a moment or two of wanting In, Michael did what Johnny could never do and Johnny gave him credit for it. Now hat Michael is outright cutting all ties with all things Corinthos, I think it could be a very interesting scene/conversation. I also think this Michael would be fair to Johnny and see that it was easier for Michael to walk away because he's always had the Qs in the background waiting to give him a better life, something Johnny never had and so he kept going back to the only life he had instead of making something new. Johnny is who Michael maybe could have been if not for certain people in his life; and maybe with better options Johnny could have gone Michael's way. I know, God forbid Ron do strictly something character based... but I can still want it anyway. I think it would be interesting for both.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Gigi43

[CPP83]

I need a Johnny/Michael scene soon. I think that could really bring out the better side of Johnny. Sonny hate aside, he always felt bad for, at times protective of, Michael, because he could relate to being born in the mob life and aside from a moment or two of wanting In, Michael did what Johnny could never do and Johnny gave him credit for it. Now hat Michael is outright cutting all ties with all things Corinthos, I think it could be a very interesting scene/conversation. I also think this Michael would be fair to Johnny and see that it was easier for Michael to walk away because he's always had the Qs in the background waiting to give him a better life, something Johnny never had and so he kept going back to the only life he had instead of making something new. Johnny is who Michael maybe could have been if not for certain people in his life and maybe with better options, Johnny could have gone Michael's way. I know, God forbid Ron do strictly something character based... but I can still want it anyway. I think it would be interesting for both.

 

 

Except Johnny would also probably end up defending Carly to Michael.

 

Johnny could care less about Michael cutting off Sonny, but he certainly doesn't care about AJ or all that Carly did to keep the identity of his  true murderer covered up. He'd merely get on Michael's case about being so cold and unforgiving to her since it's clear Johnny still thinks oh so highly of her.

 

If they do share scenes together I see Ron using Johnny as another Carly cheerleader because you just can't have too many of those apparently...

Edited January 9, 2015 by CPP83

[IWantCandy71]

Yea, I mean, it's hard to argue that Dante is a 'bad guy' and Johnny is a 'good guy.' The problem I have with Dante is his attitude. Like, honey, you broke the law to protect a mobster, so maybe get off you high horse sometimes. It was worse when he was being an OTT asshole to AJ though because there was no real reason for it. I guess AJ did kidnap Michael/Morgan, so maybe Dante wouldn't love the guy, but he acted like AJ was the devil and deserved to be killed or something. With Johnny, he has even more legit reasons to not like the guy, but he went way OTT with his attitude again there. And it came off even more annoying to me because, like you said, he had just said that he could understand why Johnny did some of the things he did.

 

I see what you're saying about not letting your father go to jail, Fylaki, but IMO it doesn't quite track with Dante because he never knew Sonny was his father so he didn't have some deep connection to him. And he seems to pride himself on being a cop and a good guy, so it makes him come off super hypocritical.

 

 

I didn't think about that but these are actually really great points. Although I'm not sure the writers think that deeply about things. I gotta say I would love it if Fluke turns out to be Anthony. It will not make sense on any level, except the Sonny angle. And Anthony was what, 5 feet tall? Luke is 6 ft tall. That is so hilarious. I love it! I hope you're right.

 

As I've mentioned before, I watch a lot of the ID channel, and there was some show on last night where a lady had "height" surgery where they break both your legs and do some procedure to stretch your height. I doubt they can add a whole foot, but it's interesting to know the height thing could be explained away.

I don't know how deep the writers are, but it's obvious Johnny and "Fluke" are not just associates. There's a personal history there.

 

CPP83, I didn't know they'd ever established the number of years Julian had known Fluke. If it has been that long, it has to be Gino, then. I do now think the BE thing may be related, but is a red herring or hints to the start of a different plot altogether. Because not only would Cesar Faison not risk his own freedom to pretend to be Fluke with Julian so that real Fluke could have an "out", Johnny Z would never trust someone related to the Spencers as far as business goes. No one would be that afraid of Bill Eckert. I think Gino as said before would be really fun, because he for the most part, would be a "new" character and can be played with. He's unpredictable. And I can see Gino and Johnny finding each other, and Gino promising to get Johnny out of prison so they could finally be true father and son.

 

No, it being Gino doesn't match any personal hatred for Luke, but I've never felt this guy actually hates Luke. I feel LUke is, and has been since day one, a convenient patsy. He's the man with probably the most history and connections to every other character in PC.

What better person to pretend to be if you wanted to fool an entire town?

[Cattitude]

I need a Johnny/Michael scene soon. I think that could really bring out the better side of Johnny. Sonny hate aside, he always felt bad for, at times protective of, Michael, because he could relate to being born in the mob life and aside from a moment or two of wanting In, Michael did what Johnny could never do and Johnny gave him credit for it. Now hat Michael is outright cutting all ties with all things Corinthos, I think it could be a very interesting scene/conversation. I also think this Michael would be fair to Johnny and see that it was easier for Michael to walk away because he's always had the Qs in the background waiting to give him a better life, something Johnny never had and so he kept going back to the only life he had instead of making something new. Johnny is who Michael maybe could have been if not for certain people in his life; and maybe with better options Johnny could have gone Michael's way. I know, God forbid Ron do strictly something character based... but I can still want it anyway. I think it would be interesting for both.

 

This doesn't make sense to me b/c to me Johnny is more in the position of Morgan who still isn't any kind of big bad mob guy and STILL has thugs for parents. Oh Michael had the Q's so THAT is why he isn't in the mob rings hollow when Morgan isn't in the mob either and doesn't have the Q's. It would seem more like giving Johnny a copout and he seems to be getting plenty of those from the ladies so far.

 

Plus Johnny works for Fluke and he wanted Michael dead so it would seem a little ingenuous for Johnny to be Michael's bestie and work for Fluke trying to take over ELQ.