Episode Discussion: TFGH

[WendyCR72]

If Val had died in that fire, the courts (or a jury) could very well assume that Johnny intended it; no one saw Valerie knock over the candle, and Val wouldn't be able to tell them. Johnny could have either tried to implicate Lulu or protect her from the consequences, but either way Lulu's life would have been ruined. She would lose her marriage, her child, her freedom as not just an accessory to murder but as a mindful plotter who paid the murderer and brought him his passport for escape. That's way too high a price for having one's pride hurt by adultery.

 

Edited to add: The forest rangers would quickly spot a fire that big, and Lulu would have had a good chance of being discovered and apprehended there. And if her cell phone was destroyed by the fire, the police would still subpoena the phone company for records of calls and texts if a death occurred,

 

Which all goes back to Dante as a cheating pig and screwing his wife's cousin in their marital bed and then basically dating her. Shrug. I will say Lulu is dumb for even giving either the time of day, but that's as far as it goes for me. None of Lulu's ensuing idiocy would even be happening had Dante kept it in his pants.

[Badsamaritan]

How much money does a chief of staff of a hospital make? I bet Robin is sitting on some cash. If she had a separate account, she's had no expenses thanks to Helena. Ain't she sweet? Seriously though, I bet she has a savings, maybe a 401k somewhere that's been gathering some nice interest. If they put a decent down payment, I can see them affording that. :-)

[Syndicate]

I, too, am wondering about Dr. Andre, or is that not his actual title?  Neat twist finding out he's been working with Robert.  They seem to be really trying to incorporate Andre into the show by connecting him to vet characters.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Syndicate

[HeatLifer]

The three bedroom house next door to me on the outskirts of Berkeley went for $1 Million last year, in need of extensive renovations. I hope Helena paid Robin well for all that indentured servitude!

Robin told the realtor she can bring people back to life. No biggie.

[ulkis]

But neither Val nor Dante ever went to the lengths of evil that Lulu did. Lulu went to the dark side, making a deal with a dangerous fugitive outlaw to get revenge for her pride. With malice aforethought (PREMEDITATION), Lulu deliberately gave a known criminal fugitive protection from the law

 

Sure Dante has. He also has deliberately given a known criminal protection from the law. And Lulu wasn't just doing it out of slighted pride; she  -  and it was a deluded thought, but still - thought that getting rid of Valerie was going to get her and Dante back together.

 

Then it came out, and he didn't have a CHANCE to work on his marriage because Lulu wouldn't let him get a word in edgewise as she screamed self-righteously and then hit him with the separation papers, already signed by herself.

 

No. This is not what happened. She gave him those separation papers after a month, after repeatedly catching him with Valerie. And he had plenty of words gotten in, most of which included "you lied" and "how long must I wait".

[P3pp3rb1rd]

 

I will say Lulu is dumb for even giving either the time of day, but that's as far as it goes for me. None of Lulu's ensuing idiocy would even be happening had Dante kept it in his pants.

 

That connection of cause/effect leaves out so many subsequent actions, facts, and witnesses of illegal deeds and planning on Lulu's and even Johnny's part. If Val had died, Dante's adultery caused her death?  Or, Johnny would not currently be held and questioned by the police if Dante had "kept it in his pants"? Too many events, motives, choices are being ignored to make that a cause and effect chain.

 

And Lulu is indeed an idiot, but her free choices and actions are of true and greater evil than to be dismissed as "idiocy".

Edited January 20, 2016 by P3pp3rb1rd

[WendyCR72]

That connection of cause/effect leaves out so many subsequent actions, facts, and witnesses of illegal deeds and planning on Lulu's and even Johnny's part. If Val had died, Dante's adultery caused her death?  Or, Johnny would not currently be held and questioned by the police if Dante had "kept it in his pants"? Too many events, motives, choices are being ignored to make that a cause and effect chain.

 

And Lulu is indeed an idiot, but her free choices and actions are of true and greater evil than to be dismissed as "idiocy".

 

Agree to disagree, especially since I usually give no craps about Lulu or Dante. The show's tone of "blame the victim", however, has made me take Lulu's side, anyway. It's sick and wrong, and these female writers should be ashamed.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

 

No. This is not what happened. She gave him those separation papers after a month, after repeatedly catching him with Valerie.

 

I remember that she sent the papers over and Lulu turned up the next morning (after he'd decided to sign them). But Val turned up the same night he signed them. He slept again with Val, thinking he was separated since both he and Lulu had now signed the papers. Lulu's nanosecond of reasonableness for discussion with Dante ended when she came over but saw Val come out of the bedroom wearing a towel.

[tvgoddess]

 

Ava looked lovely today, both in her yoga gear and cocktail gear.

 

Agreed, and I actually liked the yoga gear better. She looked really cute with her hair back in a ponytail. I like her more natural, she looks younger. Maybe UO, but I didn't take those short scenes with her and Olivia as bonding at all. They conversed, but it was hardly like Olivia was ready to forgive her. I liked those scenes better than the ones with Paul though. I'm wondering how much longer I have to suffer through my girl in this so-called pairing. I still wanted to see her and Scotty together, they can be sarcastic and fun and not icky.

 

Robert thinks Anna's beautiful. Be right back you guys, I'm going to go swoon. And his line about the whole alphabet was great. I think I will definitely need to go back and watch at the very least all of him off my DVR.

 

I don't see a whole lot of chemistry between Jordan and Andre. They're both great looking and all, but they're too similar so it's kind of a yawn.

 

There are no words to describe this disaster that is Dante/Lulu/Val. I think they wrecked this relationship worse than any others on the entire show. I still don't hate Val, though. I don't know, I have a soft spot for Brytni Sarpy on Twitter. But Lulu got a really raw deal in this whole thing. Like Marty Saybrooke raw.

 

Johnny and Scotty together were awesome.

[rur]

 If Val wasn't so stupid she wouldn't have turned over the candle. 

 

If Val wasn't so stupid, she would have locked the doors  of her car and peeled out of wherever she was the second Johnny got out of the car. She could have texted the PCPD once she got a couple of miles down the road. Johnny would still have been in the woods. No wonder she's worried about flunking out of cadet training. Pulling out your phone to send a text, even if it is to the police department, while you are still in danger is a bonehead move. I don't want to say she deserved what happened to her, but, damn, it's sure hard to feel sympathetic for someone who's been as dumb as she has been, even if her mother is dead. 

[P3pp3rb1rd]

 

Robin told the realtor she can bring people back to life. No biggie.

 

In California (especially in Hollywood), people would definitely consider this a "plus"! Seriously, with their education and job experience, both Robin and Patrick could get mega-loans.

 

[P3pp3rb1rd]

 

Pulling out your phone to send a text, even if it is to the police department, while you are still in danger is a bonehead move. I don't want to say she deserved what happened to her, but, damn, it's sure hard to feel sympathetic for someone who's been as dumb as she has been, even if her mother is dead.

 

Yes, it wasn't very savvy; Johnny is a master criminal who noticed immediately that Val sensed danger. Val put the pieces together pretty fast when she saw Lulu. I see Val as quite naive and uneducated, from poor lower middle-class people. Her background undercuts her momentum, and she doesn't have personal confidence or loyal supporters to reinforce her choices and decisions. She is very lonely and young, but is trying to grow an independent life.

Edited January 20, 2016 by P3pp3rb1rd

[Ambrosefolly]

I don't care about Lulu all that much, but girl could fucking LIGHT Val on fire herself and I would be cheering her on.  If she says it was ALL 3 OF THEIR FAULTS one more time...And hey, did you guys know HER MOM DIED?

 

 

Yes, but only the basement blew up.

Even with an adulteress, what Lulu set into motion should have made me sympathetic, but the actress and the writing do her no real favors. As much of a bitch Lulu was to her, still doesn’t entitle her to sleep with her husband. What did Valerie say when Lulu pointed this out ?“You LIED”. She didn’t say that she was lonely, grieving, misread the situation and made a mistake, no, Lulu had it coming because she lied, though not in the any confrontation between Dante and Lulu because they never happened.

Good point.   As well, I know that one of the current mantras making the rounds right now is that Lulu is being sacrificed to make Valerie look good.  While I do think that the writers are trying to correct some of the terribly undeveloped, plot-point writing many complained about for Valerie early in the story, I don't see an improvement in her writing as a conscious attempt to discredit Lulu for two reasons.  I see the improvements and clarification of Valerie's POV more as a separate attempt to correct, at least in a small way, the significantly bad writing she had for months.  But now to those two Lulu-related reasons: 

 

1.  What Lulu is doing right now is classic Lulu - impulsive, narrowly-focused decision-making in a time of crisis.  Because this is so in character for Lulu, I can't say her doing this right now is especially far-fetched, so I can't get all bent out shape over Lulu being damaged - certainly not by being written OOC as Dante has been. And I'm certainly not seeing how this in-character, but unflattering, writing for Lulu advantages Valerie all that much.

It advantages Valerie because up until this point, she was in the wrong. Now Lulu has committed far worse against her, technically the scales are now tipped in Valerie’s favor .

2.  IMO, there is someone else who is set to benefit more than Valerie  by a focus on Lulu's natural inclinations causing her to mess up.  Yup, that's right - Dante!  Let's face it - our one-time admired hero has gone off the rails in this story.   However, I don't need a program to know that the writers' focus is about to turn to the process of putting Dante and Lulu back together again.  Now some will say that all the king's horses and all the king's men won't be able to put this Humpty Dumpty back together again.  That's moot - because a Lante reunion is happening - whether we are ready for it for not. 

 

So what does this certain reunion have to do with having Lulu mess up in this revenge story?  My twisted thinking is telling me that the writers want to give Lulu something significant for which she needs to apologize to at least partly counter Dante's sins.  Dante has messed up so badly that the playing field can never be even, but this way Lulu comes to rebuiding process with something she, too, has to acknowledge and for which she needs to examine her own motives and actions.

 

If the sins are all Dante's, the reunion process is less likely to focus on the real examination of the issues that have existed between Dante and Lulu beyond the cheating mess.  And there are issues - more about those another time.  If the sins are all Dante's, any reunion will be mostly relegated to Dante's grovelling for favor.  Now, I know that's just what a lot of you would like to see.  And, very short term, that might be cathartic to watch.  However, what kind of future story does this create?  What kind of couple would they be if penitent Dante is reduced to the role of the Prince Consort walking three paces behind his noble Queen?

Dante, unfortunately, was thrown under the bus and it really showed why it was good that RC was fired: he can’t (or won’t) write anyone remotely in character or build up his new characters before throwing them into unflattering storylines. Lulu screwing Johnny on New Years would have put them back onto equal footing, now (as I mentioned with the scales) Lulu will be groveling for Dante’s forgiveness. It also can potentially drive him and Valerie together if they view Lulu as a common enemy. But since consequences don’t count for jack, Lante will probably be together by Valentine’s Day.

Dante cheated on his wife after she disappeared with another man without a word to him. Yes, he should have prudently waited to confront her face-to-face. But he kept silent, believing it was a ONS that would not recur. Then it came out, and he didn't have a CHANCE to work on his marriage because Lulu wouldn't let him get a word in edgewise as she screamed self-righteously and then hit him with the separation papers, already signed by herself. Believing Lulu had officially dumped  the marriage and that they were separated, Dante took comfort again with Val and became more deeply involved with her. For her part, Val has never seemed like the scheming, teh evil seductress; she's alone and poor, and is trying to launch a difficult, demanding career in policework. Dante is a supporter who also has plenty of experience and advice for her chosen career.

Lulu found out on Halloween, Dante and Valerie slept together on Thanksgiving. Not even a month. Lulu screamed at him right after it happened, not only because he slept with Valerie, but also lied about how far they went when Lulu asked point blank and he didn’t volunteer the information, it was broadcast at a party. Then gave him the silent treatment. Dante didn’t even wait for the ink to dry when he and Valerie slept together again, and that time around Valerie initiated the kiss with the come hither look.

 

But neither Val nor Dante ever went to the lengths of evil that Lulu did. Lulu went to the dark side, making a deal with a dangerous fugitive outlaw to get revenge for her pride. With malice aforethought (PREMEDITATION), Lulu deliberately gave a known criminal fugitive protection from the law, hiding him and then employing him (she brought cash to the cabin) for getting rid of Val. When she made her deal with the devil, Lulu didn't know what lengths criminal Johnny would go to. She did ask him not to kill Val, but apparently all kinds of assault, kidnapping, torture etc were not excluded. Val was to be Johnny's prey, and his mental state was questionable from the beginning. Deliberately conspiring to physically and mentally hurt someone (in a carte blanche of unspecified ways) goes far beyond a ONS that hurts a marriage partner's trust and love. Of course the ONS is wrong, and hurting the spouse that way undermines the marriage, but that deed does not equate with the physical and mental wrongdoing that Lulu was hatching with a fugitive criminal!

She told Johnny not to hurt at all Valerie, so I think torture and assault were off the list. While the plan was pretty dumb from the get go, in Lulu’s defense, I understand why Lulu wouldn’t see Johnny as some dangerous criminal. When she was a teenager, he not only took the fall but tried to protect and took care of her and even after they broke up, expressed affection for her. She allowed herself (not Johnny’s fault, just saying) to be lulled into a sense of safety with him, forgetting he reacts very badly when cornered. And in defense of the devil, when I come across the occasional story of husband coming home to find his wife screwing another man and that husband beating the lover within an inch of his life, not uncommon to read in the comments “Why did that guy expect? He was fucking the guy’s wife” Edited January 20, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[ByaNose]

I could watch Rogers & Hughes all day. The two of them just talking at Metro & home was so effortless. It's a shame that GH can't steal Rogers from Y&R. You can tell they enjoy working with each other. It was great that Robert had to clue Anna in that Paul is Horney for her. LOL!!!! It will be interesting to see how far Anna will go to nail Paul. She already slept with Sloane so sleeping with Paul wouldn't be a total stretch.

[ulkis]

Yes, it wasn't very savvy; Johnny is a master criminal who noticed immediately that Val sensed danger. Val put the pieces together pretty fast when she saw Lulu. I see Val as quite naive and uneducated, from poor lower middle-class people. Her background undercuts her momentum, and she doesn't have personal confidence or loyal supporters to reinforce her choices and decisions. She is very lonely and young, but is trying to grow an independent life.

She completed college.

I could watch Rogers & Hughes all day. The two of them just talking at Metro & home was so effortless. It's a shame that GH can't steal Rogers from Y&R. You can tell they enjoy working with each other.

They can, actually. TR is not on contract at Y&R.

[dr. gailey]

I don't care for any of the people in the Lulu/Dante/Val triangle.

 

They all suck. Val should have never slept with Dante as he was a married man. I can't fault her that it was her cousin's husband as damn near every member of her new found family has fucked a relative's husband. Carly with Bobbie's husband. Lulu with her step-brother. Lulu's best friend Maxie has fucked almost all of her boyfriends.

 

Dante should have kept his dick in his pants. Stop assuming shit and talk to your wife.

 

Lulu for plotting with Johnny. She should have sent him after Dante as well. All of their problems didn't just happen because of Val. Val wouldn't have needed rescuing if she never sent Johnny after Val. She is just going to have to take the loss on that one.

 

That being said, if you want to blame someone for this mess, blame Luke. If his drunk ass didn't go find Val's mom and basically torture Val, she wouldn't have ever stepped foot in Port Charles.

[GHScorpiosRule]

They can, actually. TR is not on contract at Y&R.

 

Tristan Rogers is smart to stay away from this craptasticshitfest of a show.  His limited visits guarantee that this show won't massacre, dismember, or ruin Robert!Fucking!Scorpio.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

I'm not sure what the law is on breastfeeding in public--maybe it is different in various states--but there is "public" and there is "PUBLIC". I already mused upthread how Olivia has been such a yenta and law-unto-herself lately, eavesdropping on Julian and Alexis, offering to throw them an engagement party, chewing off her son Dante's netherbutt over his marriage problems, etc. Now she's acting aggressively towards an elected authority who politely asked her to find another way to feed her baby during a business meeting.  To show manners or consideration for others who might object, Olivia should think about possible reactions from others, and find other ways to cope. (For example, couldn't she use a breast pump privately to have milk for those times when she would need to feed the baby with a bottle?)

[ulkis]

That being said, if you want to blame someone for this mess, blame Luke. If his drunk ass didn't go find Val's mom and basically torture Val, she wouldn't have ever stepped foot in Port Charles.

One of the many, many reasons Luke became The Worst.

[HeatLifer]

*shudders* I just had a flashback of that Fluke mess. And you know TG is gonna win another damn Emmy for it.

[ByaNose]

Tristan Rogers is smart to stay away from this craptasticshitfest of a show. His limited visits guarantee that this show won't massacre, dismember, or ruin Robert!Fucking!Scorpio.

It's funny you say that. He said the following on his Twitter and I wasn't sure if he was talking badly about GH or Y&R:

On the set at GH. Quite different from Y&R.

Edited January 20, 2016 by ByaNose

[HeatLifer]

Every time Lulu and Valerie are screaming over Dante, I'm like...why? Especially when it looks like he literally pasted Patrick's hair on his head.

[TheGourmez]

Robin told the realtor she can bring people back to life. No biggie.

 

Fair enough!

[Thinbalina]

It's funny you say that. He said the following on his Twitter and I wasn't sure if he was talking badly about GH or Y&R:

On the set at GH. Quite different from Y&R.

It's been said a lot of back stage politics happens at Y&R with the big honchos.

[Bishop]

I don't think I've disliked a character as much as I dislike Valerie, and the writers heavy handedness in trying to paint Valerie as a victim in all this is insane.  Valerie has never apologized for what she did, and in fact, has blamed the wife.  She also isn't "hoping that Dnate can repair his marriage."  She would have taken hi back in a hot minute, but she realized HE was having second thoughts about her.  The way the writers have written Dante, a character I use to really love, is also infuriating.  So how much more do I have to watch the new writing regime prop Valerie?  Only on a soap - with really bad writers - do you have a scenario where the wife is blamed for the affair of her husband and cousin, where the cousin never has to apologize, gets to tell off every soap vet, and then get defended by the husband in front of the wife he cheated on.  

 

I want Lulu to tell off Dante and Valerie until there is no skin left on either of them, and then I want her to go bang Johnny's brains out so that Dante's head explodes.  

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I'm not sure what the law is on breastfeeding in public--maybe it is different in various states--but there is "public" and there is "PUBLIC". I already mused upthread how Olivia has been such a yenta and law-unto-herself lately, eavesdropping on Julian and Alexis, offering to throw them an engagement party, chewing off her son Dante's netherbutt over his marriage problems, etc. Now she's acting aggressively towards an elected authority who politely asked her to find another way to feed her baby during a business meeting.  To show manners or consideration for others who might object, Olivia should think about possible reactions from others, and find other ways to cope. (For example, couldn't she use a breast pump privately to have milk for those times when she would need to feed the baby with a bottle?)

 

Maybe Olivia has post partum issues. 

[Bishop]

Dante cheated on his wife after she disappeared with another man without a word to him. Yes, he should have prudently waited to confront her face-to-face. But he kept silent, believing it was a ONS that would not recur. Then it came out, and he didn't have a CHANCE to work on his marriage because Lulu wouldn't let him get a word in edgewise as she screamed self-righteously and then hit him with the separation papers, already signed by herself. 

Boy we remember this completely differently.  Lulu had only known about the affair for a matter of days, and she was allowed to get as mad and upset as she wanted at her husband and cousin.  Rather than giving her some time to get her rage out - which she was completely entitled to feel - Valerie ran over to Dante's apartment again under the guise of wanting to watch football, and Dante and her started banging each other's brains again.  If you recall, it was LULU who realized she might have made a mistake and she went to see Dante to try and repair the marriage.  When did Dante ever make the effort to patch things up with Lulu?  He got CAUGHT!  That's not the same thing as actively trying to get his wife back.  SHE made the overture to Dante, not the other way around.  He was too busy having sex again with his mistress.  The WORST part is when Valerie is standing in Lulu's home after having had sex with Lulu's husband, and she is blaming Lulu - AGAIN!!!  Somehow it's not Valerie's fault that she can't stay out of Dante's bed.  It's Lulu's fault in Valerie's twisted little mind.  THEN Dante and Valerie start dating each other - just like that.  Dante had zero reaction to the fact that Lulu was there to try and work on their marriage.  (The writers are terrible.)

 

I can only hope that the biggest mack truck ever designed runs over Valerie very soon and clips Dante as well.  Lulu is not the bad guy, and there is no way the writers will ever get me to believe that fact.  Valerie is an horrific character, introduced badly, written badly, not developed at all, and written specifically to come between to well-liked characters.  It's a mess now.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Bishop

[Baxter]

I was so distracted by the crapfest that is Dante/Lulu/Val that I forgot to comment on the best part of yesterday's show: Robert & Anna!! Those two could teach a class in on-screen chemistry that gets better with each passing decade. Their scenes together are (seemingly) effortless, yet they move the story along at a quick pace and draw the viewer in. Some of the younger actors (I'm looking at you BC) would be wise to take note. 

 

Instead of this breastfeeding story, I wish we could have had an Olivia reaction to Robert eating in her hotel. As I remember, Olivia had quite the crush on Robert.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Baxter

[Aurora2]

I think the problem with this story is that I think it would be fine if Dante said, "there's only so long I can be sorry", at a certain point. But he did ONE month after Lulu found out the truth, and also, he never put aside his friendship or contact with Valerie. If they had actually shown him stay away from Valerie and meanwhile, Lulu's breaking into his e-mails, that would make sense from his POV to say stuff like, "I can't be constantly wondering if she's breaking into my private stuff" or whatever it was he said. I mean, he let Valerie into the loft the day after Lulu found out the truth. That was, quite frankly, insane of him, if what he really wanted was to make it up to Lulu. All they had to do was show him turning her away and it would have shown effort on his part.

 

All they had to do was show him be sincerely be contrite - and they did, for a while, but then Lulu found out the truth and he seemed angry at her for being angry.

 

I wish the story had been more about Lulu's sins than Dante's, since for most of the relationship he has done more of the effort. Not all, but more. But that's not the story they wrote.

 

And I still don't understand the inexplicable decision for Lulu not to sleep with Johnny. If they wanted to put a real wrench in the Lulu/Dante reunion, that would have done it.

 

Oh, and it would be fine if it were Lulu and Dante talking about their mutual sins - but they way they've set it up, it's now more about Lulu begging for Dante's forgiveness, which boggles my mind. Maybe I'm wrong and there will be mutual groveling, but right now, it doesn't look like that's the case.

 

After yesterday's episode, I agree that the focus - at least for now - has turned to Lulu having to grovel.  I do hope that this is short term - and I hope that one of Dante's lines yesterday indicates that we are to going to see a 50/50 situation when the dust settles on the fallout from the revenge mess. 

 

The line to which I'm referring is Dante's very specific reference to his having destroyed HALF of their marriage and Lulu having destroyed the other HALF. Very much a 50/50 emphasis.

 

Yesterday, Dante was reacting after an all-night search not only for a friend, but, very importantly, also for a fellow member of the PCPD, one who had been kidnapped and whose life had been endangered - and to the realization his wife had played a key role in the situation.  Once the dust settles on this specific and current mess, I still see Dante and Lulu easing back to this shared ownership of this conflict between them.

 

But, to get back to my premise in my post to which you responded:  Regardless of whether or not there is one-sided or mutual "grovelling" in the inevitable process of putting the Lante Humpty Dumpty back together, the key point is that this was, is and will continue to be a "Lante" story.   And the current mantra of seeing Valerie as the prime beneficiary of unfavorable writing for Lulu is misplaced.  Whatever happens next, yesterday convinced me even more of Dante being that intended beneficiary - of his being the one for whom Lulu is being "sacrificed" short term. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Aurora2

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I almost wish she would. If you're gonna be bad, go balls to the wall with it. None of this sniveling for your cheating douchebag husband back. 

 

It's the same with Liz. If they're gonna be bad, just go for it.

 

I can't agree with this sentiment. Lulu and Liz are not similar positions. The show would have us believe Lulu, the actual victim, is the perpetuator. Whereas with Liz, she's now a victim, sweeping the actions she perpetuated under the rug.

 

After getting slapped by Valerie and being screamed at by Dante, I hope Lulu have had enough of this mess and walk away. It is disgusting how remorseless Dante and Valerie were, it is even more  disgusting that Lulu was turned into the unreasonable scorned ex, but what I detest the most is the victimizing of Valerie. It was a small consolation prize that Lulu saved her klutzy ass. 

[Aurora2]

But neither Val nor Dante ever went to the lengths of evil that Lulu did. Lulu went to the dark side, making a deal with a dangerous fugitive outlaw to get revenge for her pride. With malice aforethought (PREMEDITATION), Lulu deliberately gave a known criminal fugitive protection from the law, hiding him and then employing him (she brought cash to the cabin) for getting rid of Val. When she made her deal with the devil, Lulu didn't know what lengths criminal Johnny would go to. She did ask him not to kill Val, but apparently all kinds of assault, kidnapping, torture etc were not excluded. Val was to be Johnny's prey, and his mental state was questionable from the beginning. Deliberately conspiring to physically and mentally hurt someone (in a carte blanche of unspecified ways) goes far beyond a ONS that hurts a marriage partner's trust and love. Of course the ONS is wrong, and hurting the spouse that way undermines the marriage, but that deed does not equate with the physical and mental wrongdoing that Lulu was hatching with a fugitive criminal!

 

Regardless of how likable or unlikable any of the characters are in this story - and regardless of what sins have been committed - Lulu does deserve to take a beating for this part of the story.  However, this  too shall pass.  In fact, we can already see Lulu being made sympathetic in her sadness and in that vulnerable hug with Maxie at the end.  Lulu will be just fine - and quite quickly so, I'm sure.  In fact, she will likely be better off because she is taking this beating for a short while. 

[truthaboutluv]

Boy we remember this completely differently.  Lulu had only known about the affair for a matter of days, and she was allowed to get as mad and upset as she wanted at her husband and cousin.  Rather than giving her some time to get her rage out - which she was completely entitled to feel - Valerie ran over to Dante's apartment again under the guise of wanting to watch football, and Dante and her started banging each other's brains again.  If you recall, it was LULU who realized she might have made a mistake and she went to see Dante to try and repair the marriage.  When did Dante ever make the effort to patch things up with Lulu?  He got CAUGHT!  That's not the same thing as actively trying to get his wife back.  SHE made the overture to Dante, not the other way around.  He was too busy having sex again with his mistress.  The WORST part is when Valerie is standing in Lulu's home after having had sex with Lulu's husband, and she is blaming Lulu - AGAIN!!!  Somehow it's not Valerie's fault that she can't stay out of Dante's bed.  It's Lulu's fault in Valerie's twisted little mind.  THEN Dante and Valerie start dating each other - just like that.  Dante had zero reaction to the fact that Lulu was there to try and work on their marriage.  (The writers are terrible.)

 

I can only hope that the biggest mack truck ever designed runs over Valerie very soon and clips Dante as well.  Lulu is not the bad guy, and there is no way the writers will ever get me to believe that fact.  Valerie is an horrific character, introduced badly, written badly, not developed at all, and written specifically to come between to well-liked characters.  It's a mess now.

 

All of this so much. I have watched soap operas since I was a child with my mom and that one right there is really a first to me. I have never seen the cheated on party somehow be made into the bad guy and the cheating assholes treated like the victims, especially so quickly. Between Valerie and Elizabeth, I don't know who is more smug and self righteous in their wrong doing. I have never wanted a character to punch the living daylights out of another character, more than I want Lulu to punch out Valerie. At this point it's even surpassed my desire for Sam to backhand Elizabeth. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Wrong choice, to check this thread this early. 

[KerleyQ]

All I got out of yesterday was a happy dance at seeing Robert and Anna and a headache inducing eye roll over the scenes at the PCPD.  

 

First, Johnny can't afford a lawyer?  Second, the police chief standing over him browbeating him into either accepting an attorney who should not be allowed to represent him due to the boatload of conflict of interest.  It's even more obnoxious, because the writing actually acknowledged the conflict of interest.  So they know, and they still went "eh, screw it, we can write him being forced to accept Scott as his defense attorney."  

[peachmangosteen]

I cant stand any of this Lulu/Dante/Val crap. Lulu>>>>>>>>>>>>Dante/Val.

 

This. I actually liked Valerie up until the affair aftermath and I have never been much of a Lulu or Dante fan tbh, but at this point, as someone else brought up, Lulu could set Valerie on fire and I would still be Team Lulu. And I really wish she would kick Dante to the curb.

 

Sure Dante has. He also has deliberately given a known criminal protection from the law.

 

When Dante inevitably starts whining to Lulu about what she did with Johnny I hope she reminds him he lied under oath to protect his pos father after said father shot him in the fucking chest. 

 

Agreed, and I actually liked the yoga gear better. She looked really cute with her hair back in a ponytail. I like her more natural, she looks younger.

I agree! MW looked downright stunning in her yoga look. She looks gorgeous when she goes more natural.

 

I don't see a whole lot of chemistry between Jordan and Andre. They're both great looking and all, but they're too similar so it's kind of a yawn.

I so agree. There is nothing there. I have a feeling he's like investigating her for the WSB or something though and is not actually interested in her.

 

she [Valerie] doesn't have ... loyal supporters ...

 

It seems to me that she has way too many loyal supporters. That's the biggest problem with this story.

 

Instead of this breastfeeding story, I wish we could have had an Olivia reaction to Robert eating in her hotel. As I remember, Olivia had quite the crush on Robert.

THIS! I was super into the idea of Olivia/Robert.

Edited January 20, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[dubbel zout]

I think I'd rather have Olivia crush on Robert. Just have an enjoyable flirtation that doesn't go anywhere. Olivia isn't Robert's type. And I really don't want Robert dragged into her passive-aggressive ish with Julian and Alexis.

[LeftPhalange]

I think I'd rather have Olivia crush on Robert. Just have an enjoyable flirtation that doesn't go anywhere. Olivia isn't Robert's type. And I really don't want Robert dragged into her passive-aggressive ish with Julian and Alexis.

 

I think Olivia and Robert could work as a light drama free fling. Or they could just bring back Ned since WK has been taken off contract at Days. 

[TeeVee329]

I agree with peachmangosteen that there's no there there with Jordan and Curtis.  The problem is the show was all, "Guess what, now they're a couple!" with no buildup whatsoever.  We didn't even see their first meeting/meet-cute, right?

Edited January 20, 2016 by TeeVee329

[dubbel zout]

I think Olivia and Robert could work as a light drama free fling.

 

Drama free with Olivia? Ha! "Robert, you didn't eat enough manicotti. Don't you like it? It's a recipe from my nonna! Everyone loves it!"

Edited January 20, 2016 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

I can't agree with this sentiment. Lulu and Liz are not similar positions. The show would have us believe Lulu, the actual victim, is the perpetuator. Whereas with Liz, she's now a victim, sweeping the actions she perpetuated under the rug. 

 

I agree with that, but throughout the whole story Liz was doing this horrible thing but then half crying to herself but then she kept right on doing it. I just meant, they should have just gotten rid of the crying. Which, to be fair, at this point I guess they have.

 

Mainly at this point, I just want calgon to take her away.

 

 

But, to get back to my premise in my post to which you responded:  Regardless of whether or not there is one-sided or mutual "grovelling" in the inevitable process of putting the Lante Humpty Dumpty back together, the key point is that this was, is and will continue to be a "Lante" story.   And the current mantra of seeing Valerie as the prime beneficiary of unfavorable writing for Lulu is misplaced.  Whatever happens next, yesterday convinced me even more of Dante being that intended beneficiary - of his being the one for whom Lulu is being "sacrificed" short term. 

 

I think I agree with that  - although I'm not sure about Valerie. I'm honestly not sure what they're going for with her. The kind of writing she got yesterday I don't see how the writers can't see that's insufferable - but maybe they don't. I don't know. These are the writers that write lines like "Sonny has forgiven Michael and Morgan for doing heinous things".

 

Drama free with Olivia? Ha! "Robert, you didn't eat enough manicotti. Don't you like it? It's a recipe from my nonna! Everyone loves it!"

 

"You want Sonny in prison?!? But he fathered my son 35 years ago and now we kinda talk every once in a while!!"

There are no words to describe this disaster that is Dante/Lulu/Val. I think they wrecked this relationship worse than any others on the entire show. I still don't hate Val, though. I don't know, I have a soft spot for Brytni Sarpy on Twitter. 

 

I will admit, what little I saw of BS on twitter/instagram turned me off her. It appears to be her mostly liking tweets about Valerie and posting sexy pictures of herself daily on instagram. I mean, if I looked like her I might do that too but still. I may just me a misanthrope when it comes to people on twitter, cause Emme's twitter also annoyed me too. ("ugh what's all this about children and knit sweaters and expressos and all these smiley emojis? God!")

[tvgoddess]

Yeah, it wasn't like that as much in the beginning. I don't know, I'm weird. Or maybe I'm just so used to Brydog that hers seems almost normal. 

[Bill C.]

At this point the whole Lulu/Dante/Valerie trainwreck...no, let's upgrade that to Tianjin explosion...is doing all involved no favors whatsoever.  It may even be doing them negative favors.  And it's completely, utterly, on the writers.

 

• Dante cheated, and got dragged through the mud a little bit, but that was about it. He should have been dragged more.
• Valerie, as the other woman, got dragged through the mud a bit more...though at least she was given the chance--eventually--to walk away, even if that wasn't handled all that well.
• And Lulu...she did get to do some of the dragging, sure.  But she then went through a bit of remorse, then went vengeful bitch and got Johnny to come up with his nebulous plan to get rid of Valerie for her (and even he kindasorta went "Girl, you're better than this" at some point, IIRC).  And the net result of it all was nearly KFC-ing stupid hot Valerie in a cabin fire.

 

I could well be wrong, but the scale seems unbalanced as hell right now.  And the show's either been extremely lousy at trying to get whatever dramatic point it was trying to make across or extremely good at painting Lulu as the catalyst for this wave of unnecessary and unneeded bullshit on the way to reuniting Lante.  How the hell is her even unintentionally almost getting Valerie killed supposed to counterbalance Dante banging her?

[ciarra]

So Dr. Maddox is the new spy?  Let's just add this to being

1. Morgan's therapist

2. Police Commissioner's boyfriend

3. Anna's confidante

4. possibly Jake's therapist

 

What will he be next?   Valerie's long lost half-brother?  Kristina's professor boyfriend?  Leo's new wet nurse?

Edited January 20, 2016 by ciarra

[GHScorpiosRule]

It's been said a lot of back stage politics happens at Y&R with the big honchos.

 

There is back stage politics EVERYWHERE. Just based on Rogers's tweets on Face Book, he enjoys being on and working with the CBS soap more.  Other than giving us an FYI when he was filming and keeping mum about the shitfest rushed storyline, hardly anything about this show.

[peachmangosteen]

I will admit, what little I saw of BS on twitter/instagram turned me off her.

 

I liked her at first but then she started putting #GHwildwinter on her instagram posts and I just couldn't follow her anymore. She's like the new LW.

[TeeVee329]

I don't think #GHWildWinter is specific to her, Frank Valentini's using it too. 

[ulkis]

I don't think #GHWildWinter is specific to her, Frank Valentini's using it too. 

 

Their keyboards should all freeze up as soon as they start typing that, damn it.

So Dr. Maddox is the new spy?  Let's just add this to being

1. Morgan's therapist

2. Police Commissioner's boyfriend

3. Anna's confidante

4. possibly Jake's therapist

 

What will he be next?   Valerie's long lost half-brother?  Kristina's professor boyfriend?  Leo's new wet nurse?

 

This is the same thing that happened with Ewen, the therapist flunky sheepdog farmer. A therapist can never be just a damn therapist on this show.

[peachmangosteen]

I don't think #GHWildWinter is specific to her, Frank Valentini's using it too. 

 

Oh I know, but it's annoying and stupid. :)

[tvgoddess]

I just assumed that they were forced to use whatever hashtag Frank comes up with. I mean, not forced but you know. Highly suggested to help with ratings or whatever. Not that it would, but I've seen more than a few actors use it.

[dubbel zout]

This is the same thing that happened with Ewen, the therapist flunky sheepdog farmer. A therapist can never be just a damn therapist on this show.

 

Ewen got to be the devil, literally. I'm sorry, but no one is ever going to top that.

 

Re: Lulu/Dante/Valerie. They had to have Lulu do something as bad as or worse than Dante to even the score between them. Though IMO, putting someone's life in danger, however inadvertently (but it's Johnny, a loose canon if there ever was one, so what did Lulu expect?), is worse than cheating on your spouse. Now Lulu can be browbeaten by Dante and Valerie for that. Because the cheating was really her fault from the beginning, since she lied. What else could Dante do but cheat?