Episode Discussion: TFGH

[dubbel zout]

She hasn't had any great rivals, except for now maybe Valerie, and I have a feeling they will be friends eventually.

 

That should be years down the road, cousins or not. In the meantime, however, I'm sure with these writers we'll get some fakakta situation where Lulu has to be in Valerie's debt (something to do with Rocco, no doubt).

 

 

The Mac/Robert and [Robert]/Anna scenes were the only ones worth watching. And they actually were quite good. Of course that has everything to do with the actors and nothing to do with the writing.

 

I thought the writing was pretty good. Robert was way too dense when Mac was talking about taking care of "his" girls, but the essential point of the conversation was good. Ditto with Anna and Robert.

Edited January 14, 2016 by dubbel zout

[peachmangosteen]

AHEM! There were no Mac/Anna scenes. It was ROBERT and Anna! I fixed it fer yous.

 

Ah yes, sorry about that! I guess I just had Mac on my mind. :)

 

I thought the writing was pretty good. Robert was way too dense when Mac was talking about taking care of "his" girls, but the essential point of the conversation was good. Ditto with Anna and Robert.

 

Yea in general the writing was good (but I mean it was so simple and brief it would be really bad if even it was badly written!) but the overall story is just stupid and bad and is only saved imo by the acting/chemistry.

 

Mark me, you all are going to regret your hate next year, when it's revealed that Dante is suffering from the same "darkism" that afflicted Luke and had Lucky running scared.

 

Normally I would think this was bad storytelling, but at this point they should probably say every character has just been suffering through a 'dark side' episode and have them all miraculously be cured simultaneously and just move on.

Edited January 14, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[ulkis]

Mark me, you all are going to regret your hate next year, when it's revealed that Dante is suffering from the same "darkism" that afflicted Luke and had Lucky running scared.

 

That's my story anyway. This is all "Dark Dante."  Or Fante.

 

I'll take it at this point.

[Baxter]

Has Johnny gone off the deep end? He's fun to watch, but I miss soulful, intense Johnny, like when he started his romance with Olivia. They had some of the most intense love scenes that I can remember since Noah and Tiffany played with strawberries. (I was a  teenager back then, but I never looked at strawberries the same.)

 

Dante dated Valerie and he's upset at the thought of Lulu screwing around with Dillion or talking with Johnny. Dante's an idiot.

 

Loved the Robert/Mac and Robert/Anna scenes.

[peachmangosteen]

I miss soulful, intense Johnny, like when he started his romance with Olivia. They had some of the most intense love scenes that I can remember since Noah and Tiffany played with strawberries. (I was a  teenager back then, but I never looked at strawberries the same.)

 

Excuse me, off to search "Johnny and Olivia" and "Noah and Tiffany" on youtube!

[KerleyQ]

Mark me, you all are going to regret your hate next year, when it's revealed that Dante is suffering from the same "darkism" that afflicted Luke and had Lucky running scared.

 

That's my story anyway. This is all "Dark Dante."  Or Fante.

 

I'll take that at this point.  I'll also accept "Because...Helena."  

[HeatLifer]

Dante's an idiot.

A+.

I don't even have the energy to hate Dante. I'm just waiting until the moment I can pretend this story never happened.

[dubbel zout]

Dante dated Valerie and he's upset at the thought of Lulu screwing around with Dillion or talking with Johnny. Dante's an idiot.

 

I loved Maxie telling him that without coming out and saying it when she told him to stop it with thinking Dillon and Lulu are together. Her tone of voice was perfect.

[LeftPhalange]

Val was created specifically to break up Lante so now that she's served her purpose I'm not sure why she's still here. When is she leaving?

[CPP83]

What is this show doing? I'm at a loss frankly about what's going on.

 

Did Johnny really howl at Val when he took her captive...? How the hell did that get left in? Did no one watch that back and realize it looked as if he was morphing into a cheesy knockoff of "American Werewolf in London: Guido Edition"?

 

I just...and then in the previews he's ranting at her as if he's officially lost his bloody mind.

 

Will there be a scene coming up where he has a "vision" of Mommy Claudia who appears and tries to get him to "stop the madness" as Courtney did with Spencer? Because that went over so well...

 

I saw Mac and Rob and it was good. I really didn't care much about what they were saying, they could have been reading lines from the telephone book for all I care, it was just nice seeing those brothers together again and for longer than 5 seconds.

 

The tree has returned and is as wooden as ever. I'm not sure if he's gotten more boring or I've lost further patience with his lackluster acting. Probably both.

 

Olivia is on one stupid ass crazy tour as she's now determined to insert herself into Julian and Alexis' persona lives.

 

Perhaps if she had showed more interest in him way back when before she decided to pretend their kid had died while basically going about shouting from the rooftops that she hated his guts, etc. But this blindside of her seemingly wanting to cozy up to the newly engaged couple ala "Three's Company" is ridiculous and dumb.

 

And just how old are they saying Leo is now because Olivia said she was going to bring him by Maxie's p[lace to play with Rocco and last I checked Rocco is a full grown toddler while Leo should barely be keeping his head to one side without aid, what kind of play-date could they even have?

 

Why is this show so determined to know not a shit thing about kids or how they function?

 

Dante is really morphing into Sonny's son at the moment as if he's being taken over by some incurable disease that's destroying him from the inside out and it's nauseating to watch. That's all I can say on the subject.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

 

What is stupid about the revenge plot is not only can Dante figure out what really happened, there by vilifying Lulu and making Valerie look more sympathetic , Lulu could lose custody of Rocco for basically hiring someone to stalk and terrorize Valerie, not to mention harboring a fugitive.

 

THIS!! I confess that my Lulu hate is strong, and it would indeed be gratifying and the best revenge upon her if she lost custody of Rocco (whom she mostly dumps with sitters and grandmas anyway since her baby rabies has apparently abated). Now that we've seen Johnny Z's terrifying crazy werewolf behavior today (including in-yo'-face howling to Valerie), the high school tricks and lying to protect him should backfire big time. Let them learn how dangerous and short-sighted it is to protect a criminal! (Maxie is especially dumb for not turning him in immediately since he stole her money and her car previously.) I'd love for those two yentas to get some time in the slammer if Johnny seriously hurts Val to fulfill Lulu's jealous plotting. Take that, mean girls!

 

[ulkis]

Excuse me, off to search "Johnny and Olivia" and "Noah and Tiffany" on youtube!

 

Whaaaat peach I never realized you never saw Johnny and Olivia. You would like them.

[Kitty Redstone]

Did Johnny really howl at Val when he took her captive...? How the hell did that get left in? Did no one watch that back and realize it looked as if he was morphing into a cheesy knockoff of "American Werewolf in London: Guido Edition"?

 

This is so funny!  BB must be bored out of his head, or playing that Johnny's body has been inhabited by Franco, or something.  I wonder if he warned BS that he was going to howl in her face?

[Asp Burger]

This already feels like unpopular-opinion territory, but I didn't mind the Johnny Zacchara howl and subsequent crazy-guy face today. Wasn't it kind of a callback? When the character was first introduced, he was portrayed as very on the edge, reckless, unhinged. In short order they dialed it way back, and he was playing his piano of pain while Sonny threatened to cut off his fingers. Then he developed a sense of humor and went full-on cuddly. I thought today he was putting on a "Johnny vintage 2007" act to make Valerie think she's in more danger than she really is in. I believed him when he assured Lulu he wasn't going to kill Valerie, and I don't think they would taint this character that much by having him even make a serious failed effort to kill or even physically hurt her. (I realize killing Valerie would make his popularity skyrocket in some quarters, but you know what I mean.) 

 

I really don't know, as I'm not spoiled for this whole scheme of his, and all I see it doing is blowing up in Lulu's face. Not only is she going to look responsible for the things she sanctioned, she's going to look culpable for things he didn't even tell her he was going to do.

 

I just didn't think the howling was intended to be "authentic," and I thought BB did it pretty well. It was a reminder that Johnny can "do" crazy. He certainly had enough familial examples to study. (I'll take a minute to put some cyber "ROSES!" on Papa Zucchini's grave.)

Edited January 15, 2016 by Asp Burger

[Ambrosefolly]

You know what I hate about this storyline? While I don't think it is completely out of character, I really think the point of the storyline is poor poor Valerie. Dante is primarily responsible for the affair and Lulu might of contributed 25% of the problems if I am feeling generous, but Valerie still thinks she is pretty much blameless in sleeping with a married man because of whatever was going on between Lulu and Dante. I think it would be better if she shown to felt truly bad about what did and makes a genuine apology without of blaming Lulu for not taking Dante back. As much of a bitch Lulu was to Valerie before she slept with Dante, Lulu was right, why couldn't she go and get to know the rest of her family? Carly sucks, but she has a fucking hotel she could stay at, and Lucas and Bobbie are great.

[ulkis]

This already feels like unpopular-opinion territory, but I didn't mind the Johnny Zacchara howl and subsequent crazy-guy face today. Wasn't it kind of a callback? When the character was first introduced, he was portrayed as very on the edge, reckless, unhinged. In short order they dialed it way back, and he was playing his piano of pain while Sonny threatened to cut off his fingers. Then he developed a sense of humor and went full-on cuddly. I thought today he was putting on a "Johnny vintage 2007" act to make Valerie think she's in more danger than she really is in. I believed him when he assured Lulu he wasn't going to kill Valerie, and I don't think they would taint this character that much by having him even make a serious failed effort to kill or even physically hurt her. (I realize killing Valerie would make his popularity skyrocket in some quarters, but you know what I mean.) 

 

I've enjoyed Johnny this go-round, but he is a bad guy. They took pretty far a while ago already now.

[Artsda]

Dante's awful and Olivia too. Nothing Lulu did was wrong enough to give him a reason to sleep around with her cousin. Yet they're trying to act like they're equally responsible for the break up of their marriage.  I want Lulu as far from Dante as possible. 

 

What's with Olivia odd behavior with Alexis & Julian? Is she jealous?

Edited January 15, 2016 by Artsda

[sunnyface]

Val was created specifically to break up Lante so now that she's served her purpose I'm not sure why she's still here. When is she leaving?

 

Not soon enough.  Just what Port Charles does not need, another person that wields a gun.  At least in her first few scenes, she was dressed in hospital/medical office worker clothes.  Now the actress is yet another stunningly meh-looking, meh-acting chops, younger actor plucked from a rather large southern cal unemployed young actor pool from southern cal.   Sabrina, Val, Dillon, Kiki, and Morgan = weak sauce for that generation of actors.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

 

What's with Olivia odd behavior with Alexis & Julian? Is she jealous?

 

Olivia is almost bi-polar these days...first being all judgmental and even abusive towards Dante, blaming him for the whole marriage mess. Then doing a 180-degree and going to Lulu to raise up guilt that Lulu's behavior might have been to blame also (because she ran off to Canada with Dillon for awhile to help her brother without explaining to Dante), or at least that the Lante marriage was not as solid as it seemed when Val hit town. In the meantime, she's eavesdropping on Alexis and Julian and going to extremes like buying matching sweaters and making cozy  family portraits to arouse Alexis's jealousy that Olivia is Julian's baby-mama. Olivia certainly isn't acting her age: maybe that late pregnancy with Leo has flung her hormones back to invoke adolescent behavior. Her nasty rejection of Val's employment hope was within Olivia's rights but low, low class--and petty.

 

The only consistency about Olivia these days is her emotional regression. She seems deeply unhappy--anyone who lashes out as fiercely and cruelly as she did to her own son is suffering a lot, perhaps unconsciously. And her cruel words to Val, not only denying her employment but also suggesting that Val leave town and never return, reflected a harsh judgmental spirit and a shocking pride. Although she is beautiful for her age, Olivia's hostility reveals either an ignorance about people (i.e., she does not realize that a person is not all good or all bad) or an unconscious guilt. She seems on the edge of mental breakdown (or perhaps a serious case of menopausal hormones), and her offer to host an engagement party for Julian and Alexis was creepy.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

Alexis truly lives in a fool's paradise these days. She's crazy about an ex-mob boss who is trying to scam the IRS, and is even offering him her legal support and protection. And she was completely blinded by motherly pride in wily daughter Kristina, automatically assuming that the girl was acing pre-law and would one day practice before the Supreme Court!

 

"Pre-law" curriculum is not like pre-med. The girl could be studying for a bachelor's degree in English, Biology, Psychology, History, Poli Sci, etc--even Physics and Philosophy. Alexis ought to ask Sonny to cross-examine Kristina and get more details out of her, but Alexis seems to be reliving her adolescent days too with her gym-rat boyfriend.

[ulkis]

I'll take that at this point.  I'll also accept "Because...Helena."  

 

My explanation:

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/10486-gh-fanworksfanficfanart-we-do-it-better/?p=1872074

[BlueberryJane23]

Nina and Franco need to adopt Valerie!  Then the three of them can ride off in the sunset together.  They can even get their very own farewell episode with a surprise wedding/adoption party and all of their umm...friends...from Port Charles. Carly can breeze by with a chocolate cake and be all "bygones!"  And then the three of them can go stink up some new town.  

[ulkis]

They should take Kiki with them though. And Morgan. They can fight over him! (Yes, I know Morgan and Valerie are cousins-once removed. Whatevs!)

[OhioSongbird]

When the call came over Valerie's scanner about a robbery I thought Johnny had set that up for Val to arrive there as the perps were leaving and jump into her car.  Aiding and abetting...driving the get away car.  Didn't see the kidnapping coming.  I think Johnny knew she made him from the BOLO alert so he went that route.  Lulu's not agonna be happy.

[peachmangosteen]

Whaaaat peach I never realized you never saw Johnny and Olivia. You would like them.

 

Yea, I wasn't watching during Johnny/Olivia. I have always meant to check them out on youtube because I'm sure I'd be super into it, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Probably going to do it this weekend!

 

You know what I hate about this storyline? While I don't think it is completely out of character, I really think the point of the storyline is poor poor Valerie.

 

100%. And that is so fucking irritating. Why are they trying to make this character happen? I don't get it.

[TeeVee329]

The show's use of Valerie is so frustrating to me.  Injecting some color into the Spencers via Patricia was smart.  Showing a woman value police work and work towards a career, unlike your Kikis, is nice.  But the avenues the writing has taken with her have been wrong from the beginning, starting with killing Pat so quickly.

Edited January 15, 2016 by TeeVee329

[Oracle42]

I think BS is a decent actress, not brilliant but certainly better than RP, HP, Mayo and Darby, and there was potential story for her given her backstory and family connections - but RC never bothered to develop the character. He just threw her into one of his lazy, shitty triangles and went back to trying to make Kiki, the SERIAL KILLER and WE NEVER CARED happen.

I mean, this is a fucking soap. Why not have Johnny seduce her into compromising herself instead of this transparent setup/stupid kidnapping plot. It creates actual emotional conflict and is a slightly less ham-fisted way of creating sympathy - especially if Johnny grew to care about her for reasons that had nothing to do with her dead mother (did you know Valerie's mom died?) but were related to actual character development

Edited January 15, 2016 by Oracle42

[dubbel zout]

What's with Olivia odd behavior with Alexis & Julian? Is she jealous?

 

God, I hope not. It's bad enough she's being galactically passive-aggressive. The last thing she needs is to fall in love with Julian. 

 

Her behavior makes no sense, given she supposedly hates Julian. They both knew exactly what they were doing when they slept together on New Year's Eve, so to retcon that to Olivia reluctantly (or whatever it's supposed to be) having genuine feelings for him doesn't work, at least not as it's currently happening.

 

Ugh. Yet another rage-blackout story.

 

reasons <snip> related to actual character development

 

*laughs uncontrollably*

[Baxter]

It's bad enough she's being galactically passive-aggressive. The last thing she needs is to fall in love with Julian.

 

This story is really just turning into a middle-aged mean girls storyline over a guy. I don't know whether to laugh or be embarrassed for them. 

[Sake614]

This story is really just turning into a middle-aged mean girls storyline over a guy. I don't know whether to laugh or be embarrassed for them. 

 

It's too stupid to laugh about. I'm genuinely embarrassed for both women.

[ulkis]

I think BS is a decent actress, not brilliant but certainly better than RP, HP, Mayo and Darby, and there was potential story for her given her backstory and family connections - but RC never bothered to develop the character. He just threw her into one of his lazy, shitty triangles and went back to trying to make Kiki, the SERIAL KILLER and WE NEVER CARED happen.

I mean, this is a fucking soap. Why not have Johnny seduce her into compromising herself instead of this transparent setup/stupid kidnapping plot. It creates actual emotional conflict and is a slightly less ham-fisted way of creating sympathy - especially if Johnny grew to care about her too for reasons that had nothing to do with her dead mother (did you know Valerie's mom died?) but were related to actual character development

 

Hell, why not just let Johnny and Lulu actually have sex as well? Why must all the women stay celibate for Dante? WHAT IS GOING ON?

 

All I know is, Valerie needs to be moved away from Dante, and Lulu and Dante need to not be together for a long time. 

[Asp Burger]

I only started watching again toward the end of November, and I came onto the Previously TV board and read a lot of anger at Dante and Liz. But for me, the three characters I am most disappointed in, because I once liked all three, are Nikolas, Olivia, and Alexis.

 

Alexis has turned into some weird combination of "not even the same character" and "retaining only the worst." It's like the current writers don't get her at all and are going from some half-assed crib notes. For some reason, Liz repeating her own mistakes doesn't bother me as much as Alexis doing it (so boringly!). I think it's because Alexis was presented as a mature character 15 years ago. She even has a thirtysomething daughter. Liz's kids are all youngish; if they want to make Liz do such dumb things for a while longer and show slow growth, I can hang in there. With Alexis, by now it's just sad. After Sonny and Ric and Jerry Jacks, this is the guy she's with? And she's that blinkered about who he is, even when he talks openly about the shady shit he's pulling?

 

Nikolas is "going dark," I guess, but Tyler Christopher seems so checked out and lacking energy. I loved that character so much as played by TC the first time around, and he even had his moments when TC returned (like, I was reminded, supporting Lulu in the Abortion That Tore Apart Port Charles). Now he hasn't even become some interesting tragic villain. He's just kind of a sleazy slob. 

 

And Olivia...okay, she was always a little annoying, but Lisa LoCiero had a nice presence in the role, and I don't remember Olivia ever being this much of a caricature. This psychopathically overbearing stuff she's doing with Alexis and Julian is painful. Sane people don't act this way. It also makes both of them look like idiots for indulging her as much as they do...especially him, because he appears to have no clue that this would bother the woman he's engaged to. If that's the best they can do as far as giving Olivia a storyline of her own, they should restrict her to being a talk-to character for people like Dante and Lulu. Basically, what Bobbie turned into after her last front-burner romantic story ended (it was the triangle with Roy DiLucca and Melissa Bedford, wasn't it?). 

[OnceSane]

This story is really just turning into a middle-aged mean girls storyline over a guy. I don't know whether to laugh or be embarrassed for them.

Be embarrassed. I am.

[sacrebleu]

 

Her behavior makes no sense, given she supposedly hates Julian.

 

The problem with Olivia, and with every other GH character is that she has no core. She hated organized crime enough that she kept Sonny away from his son until that son was an adult, but the second Sonny wanted her back, she was happy to be the mob moll. (and, of course, she was happy to date Johnny- while lecturing him about the evils of the mob). 

 

Everyone is a chess piece, existing to be moved around. Liz lies to everyone about Jake. Dante becomes a jealous douchebag. Sabrina falls into bed with Carlos and lies to Michael about the pregnancy, forgetting that when Britt did the exact same thing to Patrick, she was the evulest evil. 

 

Everyone except Mac and Robert. They continue to be awesome. 

[backhometome]

Where the fuck are Cam and Aiden???? Do they no longer exists. Stalker on the loose and she only takes Jake and only he gets ice cream. I wonder if Jake will do something to Sam.

 

Please Die Val. Please. Are we supposed to care about her??

 

I hate that Lulu will end up looking like the bad guy. All this to make Valerie look better.

[dubbel zout]

Where the fuck are Cam and Aiden????

With Audrey. Liz mentioned it yesterday, I think.

[ulkis]

I love how there are always candles in these cabins. It's 2015 writers, you know what people bring camping? Fucking electric lanterns.

 

ETA: Oops, 2016.

Edited January 15, 2016 by ulkis

[TeeVee329]

Where the fuck are Cam and Aiden????

 

With Audrey. Liz mentioned it yesterday, I think.

 

Given how little a shit Liz seems to give about her non-Jason children at this point, she might as well just let Audrey adopt them.

[MissE]

I know that Jason is trying to protect Liz and Jake, but I hate that he is dismissing what Liz is saying because she's right, that the longer they stay there, the more Jake is going to think that Liz and Jake are together again. Clearly no one broke into the house, so he needs to stop pushing this, to play hero, and actually listen to what Liz is saying.

 

 

Given how little a shit Liz seems to give about her non-Jason children at this point, she might as well just let Audrey adopt them.

 

How does Liz not give a shit about Cam and Aiden? She clearly loves those boys, but they aren't the ones having the problem right now, Jake is. Liz is trying to not to confuse them all even more by making Cam and Aiden think that she is getting back together with Jason. Just because we aren't seeing them onscreen, doesn't mean that Liz doesn't love them or care about them. If that were the case, then none of these parents care about their kids.

Edited January 15, 2016 by MissE

[TeeVee329]

How does Liz not give a shit about Cam and Aiden?

 

They're invisible slash always with poor Audrey?

 

I guess, to clarify, that it's the show's disinterest in her non-Jason children that's really rubbing me the wrong way.  Again, there is a good story to tell here with Jake's return and reintegration with his mother and brothers, but it's all just an excuse to keep the Liz/Jason/Sam triangle going and going and GOING.

 

And I'll keep beating this drum - they need to SORAS up Cam.  All those kids are kinda a glob of the same age and that's so boring.

Edited January 15, 2016 by TeeVee329

[sacrebleu]

But why isn't the answer to stay at Audrey's  with Cam and Aiden? (yeah, I know, they're not hiring Rachel Ames) but the absolute lunacy of treating  Jake differently than his brothers isn't going to make him feel any more normal.

[MissE]

They're invisible slash always with poor Audrey?

 

I guess, to clarify, that it's the show's disinterest in her non-Jason children that's really rubbing me the wrong way.  Again, there is a good story to tell here with Jake's return and reintegration with his mother and brothers, but it's all just an excuse to keep the Liz/Jason/Sam triangle going and going and GOING.

 

No, I agree with your last part. The show has to explore Jake's issues because he was kidnapped for 5 years, but they are really doing it to keep the Jizam shit going, which is stupid. This should be a story with Jake and his family. 

 

However, I don't think that Cam and Aiden not being onscreen, means that Liz doesn't give a shit about them. We hear about Liz spending time with them offscreen, and most of the time they are at school, not with Audrey. 

 

But why isn't the answer to stay at Audrey's  with Cam and Aiden? (yeah, I know, they're not hiring Rachel Ames) but the absolute lunacy of treating  Jake differently than his brothers isn't going to make him feel any more normal.

 

Because in Jason's mind, only Liz and Jake are in danger, and he wants them to stay with him, even though Liz keeps insisting that her and Jake need to go home. If they are all at Audrey's, then Jason can't play hero.

Edited January 15, 2016 by MissE

[Oracle42]

Cam and Aiden are missing because there is nothing remotely romantic about two adult and three boys sharing a hotel room.

And? Since it is a hotel and Jason is a millionaire, he should probably at least consider adjoining rooms or finding a non-hotel place to live

Edited January 16, 2016 by Oracle42

[TeeVee329]

Has Jake actually talked to a shrink yet, and I'm not about SERIAL KILLER art therapist?

[MissE]

Has Jake actually talked to a shrink yet, and I'm not about SERIAL KILLER art therapist?

No. Liz said today that she made an appointment for him to talk to someone the next day. I'm assuming its the guy that Anna has been talking to.

[dubbel zout]

Rocco's crying was way too young for his age. This show can't get anything right.

[Oracle42]

She works in a hospital. It's been close to 6 months since she got him back and about 3 since Laura pointed out that he's probably a serial killer.

That's....not good parenting. I get that it's because the "writers" have crappy priorities but it's not a good look

[MissE]

She works in a hospital. It's been close to 6 months since she got him back and about 3 since Laura pointed out that he's probably a serial killer.

That's....not good parenting. I get that it's because the "writers" have crappy priorities but it's not a good look

Well, I think she she was kind of in denial about him having problems, and he really wasn't acting out all that much until now. She also wanted to get him help back in November, but Jason shut her down. He's just as responsible for Jake not getting help until now.

[TeeVee329]

Maybe there was some denial mixed in there, but Liz also actively didn't want him talking to anyone and possibly revealing who Jason really was.  That's why she pushed back on the idea of therapy.

 

Just more plot point-y writing, a la Valerie being shoved in with Lulu and Dante and not letting her have fleshed-out relationships with the other Spencers.

[Oracle42]

Jason is not Jake's legal or custodial parent. He only had a say because Liz gave him one.

Honestly, even if he'd never acted out? He was kidnapped and held by Helena for 4 years, therapy should've been a no-brainer especially for someone who dealt with Yelly!Lucky

Edited January 16, 2016 by Oracle42