S05.E02: The Price

[Free]

Emma needs to just stop doing good things for these people. Every time she does she keeps getting punished. Maybe that's why she refuses to give a fuck now.

 

She really should, Regina's dance took more precedent over her slowly becoming the DO.

 

Waiting for the ghosts of Greg, Percival, Kurt, Graham, and Leopold to haunt Regina in her sleep.

 

I think they already did a seance a while ago when they were trying to contact Cora, so it could be possible.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Free

[scarynikki12]

I'm feeling weirdly positive about Emma's story now that I've seen the episode.  When Regina was announced at the ball, they didn't say "Presenting The Savior: The Lady/Queen Regina".  They explicitly called her The Savior and dropped her name completely.  That makes me think that we just might get some exploration of how all the characters save Hook see Emma as The Savior first and foremost (to the point where I'm amazed they still remember her name is Emma). 

 

I've never been a Henry fan, not even in season 1, so I was bored with his scenes.  I did find it interesting that Regina, when she saw him talking to Violet at the ball, briefly let The Evil Queen resurface before Percival interrupted.  Regina is definitely going to be the mother who can't handle her son's relationship to the point that she'll actively work to sabotage it.  I'm not interested in seeing it but moments like that tell me that the writing team (whole or part) is still aware that Regina's "redemption" is still in name only. Though it does amuse me that the first time we see Regina have to pay a price for magic comes after she's been transferred to Team Hero. 

 

I hate that no one calls her Snow anymore.  It'd be one thing if Snow White was simply a nickname and her real name really was Mary Margaret but that's not the case.  One is her name and the other was given to her when she was cursed for 28 years.  No matter how much she loves Regina you'd think she'd still prefer to be called by her actual name. 

 

I knew it wouldn't happen but I was pulling for Robin's demise.  He's an insult to the legend. 

 

I'm totally rooting for Dark Swan.  The Savior was used and/or abused by most of the town without so much as a thank you while Dark Swan gets to speak her mind and relax.  I know it's not going to last but I'll enjoy it in the meantime. 

[mjgchick]

Yeah why do they not call her Snow ans David James? Disney need to force them to say it so the writers can remember to write for her.

Does anyone think Emma was forced to take their memories away because she told Hook (whose hair I'm loving lately.) She wished she could tell him what happened.

[KAOS Agent]

You know, that fury wasn't threatening the town. It wasn't dangerous to anyone except the person who tried to skip out on the bill for the magic used. I'm actually kind of upset about how that played out because they didn't have to pay. Circle of Friends = Protection from magical prices? So now we can resurrect people willy-nilly and we don't have to worry as long as we hold hands. There needed to be an actual price. One not paid by Emma. 

[Camera One]

When Imaginary Rumple was saying "The Dark One has always been held back by something", I thought he was going to suggest Emma cleave herself from the Dagger by waiting for the stars to align.

[twoods]

Captain Swan can never not suck to me. Still hot, and brooding Hook is sexy. Next week looks great.

I don't mind that Regina is on a redemption arc, but I do wish she aknowledged how horrid was. Poor Percival- he had every right to want revenge on his village. I wish she apologized to him before he died.

Finally Henry has a love interest. I love "Only You"- it reminds me of the ending in "Can't Hardly Wait."

[Camera One]

I hate that no one calls her Snow anymore.  It'd be one thing if Snow White was simply a nickname and her real name really was Mary Margaret but that's not the case.

 

I get particularly irked when the writers have David call her Mary Margaret.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Camera One

[PixiePaws1]

I am wondering if the memory loss is Emma's price for something. ..

Oh no.....that failed TLK...I know why they went there but so not looking forward to the more 'extreme' portions of a certain fandom latching onto it as proof that CS aren't meant to be. Despite the established reasons for it failing ...you just know it's going to continue to be all kinds of untidy. They've just added a tankerload of fuel to that fire....*sigh*

[KAOS Agent]

 

I thought he was going to suggest Emma cleave herself from the Dagger by waiting for the stars to align.

 

Oh they totally did go there. Only this time, it's reuniting the sword and dagger will cleave us from the light.

[MMR]

Poor Regina, she tries to protect Emma from getting exposed as The Dark One so she can help everyone and that awful knight tries to kill her, glad Charming gave him what he deserved! She looked gorgeous in that dress. Now they know, Regina will save the town. Love it!

[Camera One]

Arthur asked David if he had known of Excalibur and he replied that Arthur's "a legend here" in Storybrooke, or something to that effect.  But wasn't he also a legend in the Enchanted Forest?  Snow immediately asked if Lancelot was "of the Round Table" and both of them knew of Excalibur.  

 

I forgot to mention that the girl Henry was with felt too modern to me.  Maybe it was the line delivery or the dialogue or maybe the way she carried herself?  Not sure why.  I thought Jared did a decent job with those scenes, though.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Camera One

[kili]

That episode blew chunks. What idiot wrote it? Was it's alternate title "Logic Takes a Holiday"?

 

1) No, I did not think it was funny when Emma had to keep repeating the words Regina forced on her.  I thought it was creepy. I rolled my eyes even harder when Emma honestly thanked her for taking away her free will.  Don't thank her yet...she'll be expecting you to do magic in no time. Regina needs to learn to use her words instead of just magically controlling people. It's not nice.

 

2) I gasped when Charming killed Sir Percivel. I had Greg/Owen flashback. Dude has a perfectly valid reason to hate Regina and every reason to suspect her and everybody else of covering up (because they were), yet he has to die. Why? Why did nobody heal him? Regina wasn't doing anything and that would have been a small step towards making amends. 

 

3) So, that's at least two villages that Regina destroyed. The one that she had her soldiers slaughter and Sir Percievel's village which she burned while smiling. No regrets Regina rules again.

 

4) Let me get this straight...when Emma took on the Dark One, Snow and Charming just stood and gaped. When Regina might be taken by a Fury, why, let's all risk her lives for her and dissipate the energy (maybe they could have all taken a piece of the Dark One - nobody even tried!!). Then, let's have Grumpy learn a very special lesson about doubting Regina and praise her for being a savior (to her boyfriend - don't expect her to lift a finger for you Grumpy) when it's really Snow who was the one who saved Regina 

 

5) So, Snow got to go to balls when she was a small child and social-climbing Cora never bothered to have her daughter learn how to dance. Prince Henry, Regina's dad, never took the time to dance with her either. I begin to understand why she ripped out his heart.  Nice we get a moment of Snow and Charming helping Regina prepare for a ball and learn to dance...oh, and a few seconds for Emma too.

 

6) I'm seriously asked to feel sorry for Regina in an episode where I found out that she gleefully burned a village leaving only one traumatized small child? Seriously?

 

7) Well, I guess it's confirmed that Hook and Emma are not even remotely True Loves. She didn't even flicker like Rumple did. Well, then, stop wasting our freakin' time and find Emma a True Love because this show hasn't got long to go and I want Emma to get her happy ending. Gasp! Somebody other than Regina getting a happy ending? Can the show allow for that?

 

The only parts I liked were Emma told off Regina, but I suspect I was supposed to hate her for that and feel sorry for Regina. I guess I'm evil too.

[Camera One]

Percival should get an award for record time in enchanting a sword to specifically kill Regina with.  Didn't he meet them that day?

[Serena]

I thought that Charming was the height of rage inducing dancing.  Then they added that 'cutesy' little beat where Regina and Hood copied one of Emma and Hook's dance moves.  If I had an aneurism,, it would have exploded.

I thought that was surprisingly self-aware, since so much of their storyline is like the writers had said "What if we do Captain Swan again, but this time we make it bland?". I was like a self-burn.

 

I actually liked this episode. I mean, the end was ridiculous - Regina proves she actually CAN'T defeat the fury on her own, and it takes all of them together to do it - and Grumpy goes "oh, that just proves you are totes gonna save us!". No, how about it proves you ALL need to get off your asses and work together to fix this, instead of relying on the Savior of the Week to fix your shit?

It's like they wanted to have the "Everyone bandes together to save Regina because she's that great" moment AND the "Regina is totally a hero now and everybody recognizes it" moment, so they had them together, so it made no sense.

 

I know I just wrote two paragraphs of complains, but I actually liked this one. More than the premiere, actually, because there was lots of interaction between the character and we didn't have useless Merida taking up screentime.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Serena

[mjgchick]

I am wondering if the memory loss is Emma's price for something. ..

Oh no.....that failed TLK...I know why they went there but so not looking forward to the more 'extreme' portions of a certain fandom latching onto it as proof that CS aren't meant to be. Despite the established reasons for it failing ...you just know it's going to continue to be all kinds of untidy. They've just added a tankerload of fuel to that fire....*sigh*

They can go on and on all they want. They'll just look like complete idiots when it actually does finally happen. I use to think Emma was going to initiate the TLK but maybe both will end up doing it together now? Edited October 5, 2015 by mjgchick

[fictiongoddess]

Everyone has already mentioned most of the points I would have made, but did anyone else see the locked door in Emma's new house (yay for moving out, btw) and immediately think "Blackbeard!" By that, I mean the classic story with the forbidden room, not the character we've seen thus far.

Love the push-pull with !DarkSwan and Hook. And her new wardrobe, too. Wish he could have worn a nice doublet in Camelot instead of the same old pirate gear.

Nice to see Henry growing up. It's about time. Love me some Yaz--had to go listen to more right after the episode because I was feeling nostalgic.

I'm so over all things Savior with this show. As far as I'm concerned, the savior role was limited to the original curse and ceased to be necessary after season one. What is needed now is not a savior but heroes. Anyone has the potential to be a hero depending on the situation, but some are meant to be Big Damn Heroes and we shouldn't have to worry about character assassination with them all the time. And I'm so over hearing anyone--Emma included--refer to herself as the Savior. Get over yourself already.

[VCRTracking]

 

Finally Henry has a love interest. I love "Only You"- it reminds me of the ending in "Can't Hardly Wait."

 

It's funny but I saw "Can't Hardly Wait" but don't remember the song "Only You" by Yazoo. I first heard it in "The Americans" this year.  Henry and Violet were cute and hope it just remains a nice first crush situation and doesn't get into the heavy drama.

 

Dark Emma in the trench coat reminded me of Kim Novak in Vertigo. Dark Emma in the black sheath dress looked like all she needed was red lipstick and she'd look like she was in a Robert Palmer video.

Edited October 5, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Hookian]

I am wondering if the memory loss is Emma's price for something. ..

Oh no.....that failed TLK...I know why they went there but so not looking forward to the more 'extreme' portions of a certain fandom latching onto it as proof that CS aren't meant to be. Despite the established reasons for it failing ...you just know it's going to continue to be all kinds of untidy. They've just added a tankerload of fuel to that fire....*sigh*

 

No worries the writer of the episode confirmed why the TLK did not work and basically kind of said CS is true love as well. It was all about Emma wanting the power. So no matter what they can't twist what the writer says. I mean they can but he knows way more than they do.

 

7) Well, I guess it's confirmed that Hook and Emma are not even remotely True Loves. She didn't even flicker like Rumple did. Well, then, stop wasting our freakin' time and find Emma a True Love because this show hasn't got long to go and I want Emma to get her happy ending. Gasp! Somebody other than Regina getting a happy ending? Can the show allow for that?

 

 

Here are the tweets...

 

 

As you can he explained why the two kisses did not work and even why the Rumbelle TLK was stopped.

 

So CS failed TLK is once again explained as to be something that isn't they're not true love. Two failed TLK's in the same episode means we are getting a successful one probably this season.

 

Edited October 5, 2015 by Hookian

[kili]

Here are the tweets...

Rumbelle's kiss is canon, tweets are not. We clearly saw Rumple start to be cured by the curse when Belle was kissing him and he had to pull away from the kiss. In neither attempt at a TLK this episode did Emma get cured even a little bit. In fact, she turned more scaly after the first one. You cannot tell me that Emma during the first kiss wanted the Dark One powers more than Rumple did in his heyday. 

 

So, this has the smell of "eau de retcon" stinking all over it. And if they can retcon how TLKs work, don't think they won't do it again when convenient. 

 

They showed us two attempts at TLK that failed. That means Hook and Emma are not TL - don't show us things you don't want us tell us. That's just daft.

 

This is like those stupid shows where they spend years throwing ridiculous reasons at us why people don't get together ("Bones", I'm looking at you) and when they finally do, nobody cares anymore. 

 

I'm sorry, but tonight, they ruined TL for Hook/Emma by not even giving a hint that it might have worked. If they should ever TLK, that will smell like the retcon to 95% of the audience. I thought they built up a great relationship with Hook/Emma, but that's not the story they want to tell. or they just like controversy more or they don't know how to write. Whatever.  I always wanted Laurie to marry Jo too, but he married Amy instead and Jo married some professor older than her dad. 

 

]Two failed TLK's in the same episode means we are getting a successful one probably this season.

I'll keep my expectations at rock bottom. After Season 3B started with a failed TLK, I thought for sure we'd get one - we did - between a heartless Regina and Henry. When 4A started with Emma worried about losing Hook, I thought we'd see that and maybe her saving him. We got Emma worried about Regina instead (right after Hook nearly died and was saved by Belle). After two failed CS TLKs, will probably get a TLK between Robin and Regina (goodness knows he's going to need one by the end of this season if he keeps getting almost killed).

Edited October 5, 2015 by kili

[MaiLuna]

I really enjoyed this episode. It was entertaining. I love that we are getting more fairytale land. I loved having a ball. I'm loving the Dark Swan storyline as well, surprisingly.

 

Captain Swan are adorable. I loved all their big and background moments.

 

I liked that they gave Regina a bit of self awareness. No regret still, but at least it's something. I hated that Charming taught her to dance (the man who wanted to teach Emma and couldn't because of Regina - now he could've danced with Emma but didn't). At least they had a scene with Snow and Emma afterwards. Emma looked so happy, it was like her childhood dream came true. I also didn't like how Percival was portrayed as the bad guy and how everyone stepped up to save Regina but didn't with Emma in the finale. But again, it wasn't so much of a Regina problem but everyone else's treatment of her. I wish she had at least shown remorse for what she did to the village. And I wish it hadn't been Robin who was in peril - it would've made her sacrifice more worthwhile. 

I thought Emma would be more jealous. At the end she should've seen that Hook was devastated; but it was screwed up that they were sort of celebrating while Emma is full-on DO. I did like that Snow was worried. And I still think DS has some hidden agenda that's not evil. Though then the sword confused me. 

 

I liked Henry's little romance. And Belle's scene with Grumpy. He's being optimistic again! 

 

Did the same person who trapped Merlin in the tree cast the curse? Given that Dopey was turned into a tree also. 

 

I did roll my eyes at savior!Regina but I did really enjoy the episode a lot and I'm loving this season so far. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by MaiLuna

[PixiePaws1]

Notice no shoelace on her wrist while in her slinky sleeveless dress....

[Rhetorica]

I think this show has run its course. It's beginning to circle...

[Writing Wrongs]

I know a lot of people still hate her, but I actually kind of like Regina as Savior. She's not comfortable with it and has to gain confidence. If they are continuing to change her character, then she can't stay the Evil Queen forever.

 

I hope Emma doesn't actually kill anyone as the Dark One. Once she is saved, that guilt will be hard for her.

 

I do call shenanigans on Regina never learning to dance.

 

I think they announced Snow as Mary Margaret, because they are trying to go incognito in Camelot. Hence, not wanting them to know Regina was The Evil Queen.

[YaddaYadda]

Do you guys think they're setting up CS for a TLK that WILL work this season. It's just gotta happen when Emma chooses love over power.

 

I'm pretty sure there is one coming, but I think it will be at the end of the season and will have nothing to do with breaking Emma out of being the Dark One. I think that stuff will come through Excalibur.

[Arnella]

I am always happy when I read that the ratings are down because I really just want them to wrap it up!

I am always outraged by Snowing being solicitous of Regina but the moral relativism du jour was poor Percival:  A knight of the round table which he had to earn as a good and great knight/person.  And everyone in Camelot including his king and friend is ok with his death??  Why not demand or even beg that he be healed too?   They didn't have to keep him quiet since Regina immediately fessed up and nothing happened to her.

[FierceAfroChick]

I haven’t scene the ep yet…waiting on Hulu, but I went to Tumblr and kind of let out this long, continuous squeal because ooh wee!  Captain Swan sugah…yassss!  Those two give me life!

 

Really thinking about getting cable again so it’ll be easier to fast forward through Woegina scenes. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The single best thing about this episode was Emma's a-line trench coat.

 

Was there anything about Regina being the faux savior in Camelot that required her to keep her magic a secret? Because if not, it made no sense why she just stood there doing NOTHING when Percival attacked Robin Hood. We have seen her throw people across a room with a flick of her wrist but when her second True Love is in mortal danger, she just stands there? That made no sense to me at all.

 

Damn you, show, for giving me hope, not once but twice in a single episode that Robin Hood would die and we would be rid of him!

Edited October 5, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[legaleagle53]

Yeah why do they not call her Snow ans David James? Disney need to force them to say it so the writers can remember to write for her.

 

Because David isn't James.  James was his (evil) twin brother who was killed by a dragon.  David, like Regina, just happens to have the same name in both realms.

[Daisy]

Rumbelle's kiss is canon, tweets are not. We clearly saw Rumple start to be cured by the curse when Belle was kissing him and he had to pull away from the kiss. In neither attempt at a TLK this episode did Emma get cured even a little bit. In fact, she turned more scaly after the first one. You cannot tell me that Emma during the first kiss wanted the Dark One powers more than Rumple did in his heyday. 

 

So, this has the smell of "eau de retcon" stinking all over it. And if they can retcon how TLKs work, don't think they won't do it again when convenient. 

 

They showed us two attempts at TLK that failed. That means Hook and Emma are not TL - don't show us things you don't want us tell us. That's just daft.

 

This is like those stupid shows where they spend years throwing ridiculous reasons at us why people don't get together ("Bones", I'm looking at you) and when they finally do, nobody cares anymore. 

 

I'm sorry, but tonight, they ruined TL for Hook/Emma by not even giving a hint that it might have worked. If they should ever TLK, that will smell like the retcon to 95% of the audience. I thought they built up a great relationship with Hook/Emma, but that's not the story they want to tell. or they just like controversy more or they don't know how to write. Whatever.  I always wanted Laurie to marry Jo too, but he married Amy instead and Jo married some professor older than her dad. 

 

I'll keep my expectations at rock bottom. After Season 3B started with a failed TLK, I thought for sure we'd get one - we did - between a heartless Regina and Henry. When 4A started with Emma worried about losing Hook, I thought we'd see that and maybe her saving him. We got Emma worried about Regina instead (right after Hook nearly died and was saved by Belle). After two failed CS TLKs, will probably get a TLK between Robin and Regina (goodness knows he's going to need one by the end of this season if he keeps getting almost killed).

 

 

I had to laugh so hard . I remember reading Little Women and shouting at my mom "you mean Laurie and Jo  don't get married? AND HE MARRIES AMY?! " and agree. At least show the struggle.of TLK. Rumple had it. Why didn't Emma/Hook show some kind of  "wait--a-minuteness".but again , for me, I'm not a Captain Swan person to begin with.  but I think it would  be an interesting story to tell that these two helped each other  learn how to love, and then they find true love. I always thought that would have been (should have been) the case.  ah well. 

 

I have to say I really enjoyed-ish the episode. the "the hell you don't" popped up when Regina was like "I can't Dance." 

 

Robin is useless. what a waste of an iconic character.  

[Primetimer]

Did we really learn anything new this week? No, but everyone looked really good doing it! Even the special effects and fight choreography are getting better. Who needs a plot?

Read the story

[Francie]

I liked the episode. What I've liked about this season is that, unlike Seasons 2, 3, and 4, it concentrates on core characters of Storybrooke.  The Camelot characters are supporting and don't take over the story.  I love seeing the dwarves and Grannies featured again.  I wish we could get Red back too. Though, it totally bugs me that five of the dwarves who are supposed to have beards don't. C'mon, at least give them some permanent 5 o'clock shadows.

 

But I liked the episode in part because it did focus on Regina.  I've just enjoyed that character since Season 1, as I loved her interplay with Rumple. Too often I find myself on the opposite page of the writers of my favorite shows, so I find it weird that I appear to be aligned with the writers on this one. They seem to like the Evil Queen/Regina. I'm going to enjoy it while I can. This is the most I've enjoyed the show since Season 1.

 

Oh, and Emma looked smoking in that black outfit. Damn, the dark women get all the great costumes.

 

Dopey's trapped in a tree just inches outside of Storybrooke. Merlin's stuck in a tree in Camelot. Seems like if the Storybrookers can figure out how to free Dopey, they then could back to Camelot and free Merlin.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Francie

[Curio]

What is needed now is not a savior but heroes. Anyone has the potential to be a hero depending on the situation, but some are meant to be Big Damn Heroes and we shouldn't have to worry about character assassination with them all the time.

 

I thought this is where they were going with that Guardians of the Galaxy knock-off scene. It would have totally made more sense for everyone in that scene to be like, "Regina, it's okay, you don't have to stress out about being the only Savior. If anything, all of us banding together to help save Robin means that this won't be an individual effort, but we will all have to work together to save this town and save Emma." And that message would have coincided very nicely with Hook's pep talk in the premiere where he managed to talk Emma down from killing Merida because the villains and heroes of Storybrooke worked together as a team, not as individuals.

 

But no, somehow, Regina has to be the only special person who can save the town because the writers are setting her up for some huge event later on in the season.

 

Was there anything about Regina being the faux savior in Camelot that required her to keep her magic a secret? Because if not, it made no sense why she just stood there doing NOTHING when Percival attacked Robin Hood. We have seen her throw people across a room with a flick of her wrist but when her second True Love is in mortal danger, she just stands there? That made no sense to me at all.

 

I think they mentioned something about using dark magic as a dead giveaway that the person isn't the Savior. Or, at least that's why Hook stopped Emma from revealing herself as the Dark One, so maybe the Savior can only use white magic? But you're right, there wasn't any concrete rule saying the Savior isn't also a magical being, so Regina should have been able to use her magic, no matter what color her magic is. But then again, we've seen Regina pull white magic out of her ass before so I don't know why she couldn't have done that here. (Probably because the writers want us to forget that ever happened.)

 

You know what else is messed up? Arthur is totes cool with the concept of Regina being The Evil Queen and The Savior, but apparently Emma being The Dark One and The Savior is just too much.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Curio

[FierceAfroChick]

Robin is useless. what a waste of an iconic character.  

 

I think the writers wanted to give Regina an iconic literary character for a boyfriend to put her on par with Emma, so they destroyed a classic love story (Robin/Marian) to further prop their baby.   Probably would’ve been better if they’d just written her with a normal dude.

Edited October 5, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[CatMack]

Rumbelle's kiss is canon, tweets are not. 

 

The multiple conversations Hook and Belle had about why TLKing the Dark One doesn't work are also canon.  Those tweets, by a writer who knows what the intent of the episode were and presumably knows where the storyline is going, may not be canon but they are telling, and they aren't even necessary to understand what happened in the episode.  To say this episode proves CS isn't true love because the kiss didn't work means having to actively ignore the parts of the episode where they took the time to spell out why it didn't work.  Do I think the explanation is kind of stupid?  Sure.  I think at this point 90% of their "magic rules" are stupid because they've refused to define them for 5 years so they can pull whatever they want out of their ass at the last minute to explain whatever they want.  But they did explain it.  And they didn't have to.  We went years without an explanation for Belle never being able to TLK Rumple.  They chose to finally clarify why it doesn't work just in time to have CS also try and fail, specifically so we'd have an explanation for why it fails besides they aren't true loves.  I don't know if it's foreshadowing a successful TLK for them or not, because these writers are terrible at follow through and pay off, so I can understand being pessimistic about CS getting a successful TLK any time soon, but there's no way to read this episode as confirming CS aren't true loves unless you ignore the onscreen canon explanation the writers gave for why the TLK didn't work.  

[Curio]

You know a plot point is bad when my friend who's the definition of a casual viewer (doesn't go online to discuss the show; just watches it weekly because it's fun and cheesy) texts me: "Why are they teaching Regina how to dance? This is so stupid. Can't she use a spell that makes her a better dancer?"
 
Even if we somehow accept the ridiculous notion that Regina has never danced before in her life, why did she need a lesson from Charming? Wouldn't it have been more romantic for Robin to teach her how to dance? But shouldn't Robin be the one who doesn't know how to dance? He grew up in a forest and probably never even attended a ball in his life. Regina has at least seen her fair share of balls and knows the rules of dancing by watching on the sidelines. If anything, that scene where Charming teaches Regina should have included Robin, so Snow would have been teaching Robin some moves while Charming taught Regina. Or why not have Regina learn on the fly like Emma did in the Season 3 finale? I guess Emma did have the advantage of picking a partner "who knows what he's doing."
 

[The writers] seem to like the Evil Queen/Regina.

 
That's an understatement. ;)

[Writing Wrongs]

I am always happy when I read that the ratings are down because I really just want them to wrap it up!

I still enjoy the show. I hope I'm not alone in that.

[Serena]

Even if we somehow accept the ridiculous notion that Regina has never danced before in her life, why did she need a lesson from Charming? Wouldn't it have been more romantic for Robin to teach her how to dance? But shouldn't Robin be the one who doesn't know how to dance? He grew up in a forest and probably never even attended a ball in his life. Regina has at least seen her fair share of balls and knows the rules of dancing by watching on the sidelines. If anything, that scene where Charming teaches Regina should have included Robin, so Snow would have been teaching Robin some moves while Charming taught Regina. Or why not have Regina learn on the fly like Emma did in the Season 3 finale? I guess Emma did have the advantage of picking a partner "who knows what he's doing."

This. I don't care what hamfisted explanation they dream up (it's patently ridiculous to say Leo never danced with Regina. Yes, he may have enjoyed dancing with Snow more *cough*because she didn't spend her life sulking*cough* but the King and Queen would have "opened" any ball they had. And like people said, Cora would have made Regina learn), it made no sense. Robin not knowing would have made PERFECT sense and it should have been the way it had gone. If the writers weren't so married to the idea that Regina must have the same exact moments that Emma previously got, they would have realized that. They could have done a REVERSE parallel to CS where Regina taught Robin. 

[RadioGirl27]

I think the difference between Belle-Rumple and Hook-Emma is that Rumple was taken by surprise with the TLK working and that's why it started to work. Emma was expecting it.

Two failed TLK's in the same episode means we are getting a successful one probably this season.

Nah. If this was literally any other show, I would say this is foreshadowing. But in this show and with this writers, I'm sure that is never going to happen. Not this season, that for sure. I expect a mother-daughter TLK between Snow and Regina (Snow loves Regina more than she loves Emma and Regina is, for the writers, that awesome) before one between Emma and Hook. Edited October 5, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[kpw801]

I rolled my eyes when the announcer in Camelot addressed "Mary Margaret". I don't understand why she can't use her birth name in a land people might know her better as such.

 

Yeah.  Plus they were introduced as "Lady Mary Margaret" and "Lady Emma".  Mary Margaret is now a Queen or at least a Princess.  

[kili]

The multiple conversations Hook and Belle had about why TLKing the Dark One doesn't work are also canon.

We've been told the True Love can conquer anything. One can transcend realms, wake their near dead and stop the Darkest Curse there has ever been. True Loves happily travel to the ends of the universe to find their True Love. They are willing to sacrifice their very lives like Anna did for Elsa.

 

How can it be True Love if they want power more than Love? 

 

I can accept that when they have lost all memory of their loved ones, TLK does not work. But how an I accept full memories and still choosing power over Love? Maybe I've watched to many sappy movies and television shows where somebody has to learn that there is more to life than spending all your time being a powerful CEO. That sometimes you need to take a moment and attend your child's recital.

 

This show has told us that True Love is a wonderful and powerful thing. Now it is trying to tell us that it is fine if you permanently put your True Love in second place behind your own selfish desire. That is not what True Love was advertised as in the first year. 

 

I can believe that Hook and Belle truly love their loved ones....I don't believe that Emma and Rumple truly love them back. They firmly love other things more and are not willing to sacrifice them for the ones they love (they do love them, just not to the level of True Love).

Edited October 5, 2015 by kili

[TwistedandBored]

I think it better to stop thinking at all when watching this show or at least get high/drunk before and during watching it. Otherwise, you start to ask questions that would make you angry, disgusted or just question why reasons why you are still watching this show. 

 

Seriously, damn that Percival. He is just soo evil to want to kill Regina. I mean how dare he try to kill the woman who massacred his entire village maybe including his family?

[FierceAfroChick]

I think it better to stop thinking at all when watching this show or at least get high/drunk before and during watching it. Otherwise, you start to ask questions that would make you angry, disgusted or just question why reasons why you are still watching this show. 

 

Yep.  I’m just here for the pretty.  And Captain Swan sexy ass smooching.  And hopefully Captain Swan banging.  Pretty please?

[Mari]

I still enjoy the show. I hope I'm not alone in that.

I still enjoy it.

The problem is, this is supposed to be fun and entertaining for me, and I'm finding more and more that it just makes me angry, instead. Even things I'm enjoying are starting to be tainted by scenes and events I find ridiculous or horrifying. And there's almost no actual justice on the show.

I'm not hoping it gets cancelled, but it is one of those shows that might get downgraded to "read a recap once in a while."

Edited October 6, 2015 by Mari

[Curio]

I still enjoy the show. I hope I'm not alone in that.

 

You're not alone. For all the critiquing and nit-picking I do, you'd think I don't enjoy the show, but I still do. It's this strange phenomenon where there are enough scenes that make me grin like an idiot and I love watching the performances, but that's combined with an equal amount (or sometimes more, lately) of scenes that are confusing or terribly written and it just makes me angry. The show has so much potential to be better than what it is, but they seem to throw logic and basic story-telling principles out the window, and I'm someone who really needs logic and good story-telling to keep me captivated in a TV series. 

 

It's kind of like what Belle said in this episode. It's far easier to hate the Dark One than to love it. I think that's a metaphor for this show, too.

 

At least this season's Camelot mystery is infinitely better than last season with the author plot that made no sense no matter which angle you looked at it. At least with this story arc, I'm intrigued by combining Excalibur and the dagger, what Merlin is up to, and how Emma will shed herself of The Dark One mantle.

 

Speaking of which, when Emma was blasted back from taking Excalibur from the stone, Rumple said that only a hero can remove it. Why doesn't Emma take that as a challenge and become a hero again and take the sword herself? Why does she need someone else to do it? There isn't any rule that says the Dark One can't also be a hero. But then why did Merlin warn Emma to not take the sword out of the stone? Does Merlin want Emma to remain the Dark One forever?

Edited October 5, 2015 by Curio

[Mathius]

This episode was awful. AWFUL.

Little more can be said, really, except that this would be the episode to show someone in order to prove your point as to why Regina is a horrible character. Every single problem in how she is written, and how other characters are written in relation to her, was on full display here.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Mathius

[Serena]

We've been told the True Love can conquer anything. One can transcend realms, wake their near dead and stop the Darkest Curse there has ever been. True Loves happily travel to the ends of the universe to find their True Love. They are willing to sacrifice their very lives like Anna did for Elsa.

 

How can it be True Love if they want power more than Love?

I'm not about to defend Rumple, especially the one from season 4. But in 112, when we saw the TLK not work for Rumbelle, Rumple needed to keep his power because he needed to reach Bae. It didn't mean he didn't love Belle, he just also loved Bae (I'm still only talking about 112. S4 Rumple is a shitstain who DOES love power more than love). Likewise, we don't know why Dark Swan is doing what she's doing.

Speaking of which, when Emma was blasted back from taking Excalibur from the stone, Rumple said that only a hero can remove it. Why doesn't Emma take that as a challenge and become a hero again and take the sword herself? Why does she need someone else to do it? There isn't any rule that says the Dark One can't also be a hero. But then why did Merlin warn Emma to not take the dagger? Does Merlin want Emma to remain the Dark One forever?

From what I understood, taking out Excalibur wouldn't un-Dark One Emma. It would make her even more dangerous. So, yeah, I understand why Merlin wouldn't want that. Edited October 5, 2015 by Serena

[Francie]

I hate that no one calls her Snow anymore.  It'd be one thing if Snow White was simply a nickname and her real name really was Mary Margaret but that's not the case.  One is her name and the other was given to her when she was cursed for 28 years.  No matter how much she loves Regina you'd think she'd still prefer to be called by her actual name

 

This is how I feel about David. David's not his name! It's his twin's (or was he just a droppelganger) -- the person whose identity he took when he became the prince and killed the dragon way back in season 1.

 

I had always thought that they were going to go somewhere with that, what with Rumpel placing such a high value on knowing one's name.

[Sabs]

David IS his name.  James was his twin's name.

[Serena]

This is how I feel about David. David's not his name! It's his twin's (or was he just a droppelganger) -- the person whose identity he took when he became the prince and killed the dragon way back in season 1.

His twin's name was James. Charming's is actually David.

[Francie]

His twin's name was James. Charming's is actually David.

I was just going to correct the part about the twin's name but I'll let it be.

 

I thought that James was the twin's name. David is the made up name for Storybrooke (like Ruby or Mary Margaret), and David/James's true real name remains unknown.