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S05.E02: The Price


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I didn't consider Regina teaching Robin to dance (I tend to forget about him a lot) but YES! that's what they should have done instead of expecting us to believe Cora didn't hire the best tutors for Queen Queen.

 

The only explanation that makes any sense, is that she had the dancing lessons, but has chosen to lie about it for some reason--like she's bad at it, or she doesn't want to risk the original "dancing in red hot shoes" ending.

 

Given her background?  She had dancing lessons.

 

 

Even if you go with the idea that Regina was a tomboy growing up and skipped her mother's dancing lessons and instead went and rode horses, there's still a ton of years you have to retcon with her marriage to Leopold. Are you telling me that at her own wedding, Leopold and Regina didn't even have a fake dance? Or any of the years that they were married?

Or, as jealous as she was of Snow, hire herself tutors so she could outdance her?  After all, she couldn't even let Snow get riding medals.

 

Or, when she became Mayor Mills, and got the "modern info" download, she didn't give herself "How to dance" knowledge, since she was so fried about not being at dances?

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The problem with the writer's tweet is that I don't buy from the onscreen that Emma "loves" the power too much.  

 

The problem I have with the writers tweet is this...

 

Maybe you can argue that something terrible is coming (and I don't think Dark Swan was talking about the Fury) and Emma needs to keep the power to explain the last kiss.

 

But what explains the kiss after saving Robin?  Are we supposed to believe that Hook and Emma never kissed before that (I can't remember, did we see them kiss?) since Emma became the Dark One?

 

When we consider that, then the idea that Rumbelle almost had a TLK says a lot about there not being a flicker between Captain Swan.

Edited by ParadoxLost
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Removing the whole Regina can't dance issue (which is just an insult to my intelligence, so no point even examining it), the problem with David dancing with Regina is that it was all about how Regina never got to dance and this is just such a sad thing. Emma never dancing with her father is not sad because Emma didn't get to dance or go to balls. I'm sure Emma couldn't care less about not dancing or attending balls. The thing that made David's dream dance with Emma in S3 so poignant is that they never got to have any type of moments like that. They were stolen from them by Regina. The Snowing/Regina scene was cute, but it either misses the point or tries to diminish the loss Emma/Snowing experienced by making it about dancing and balls rather than thirty years of parent/child experiences.

 

Snow talks about the wonder that she as a small child felt when attending her first ball and how she dreamed of watching her own daughter do the same. That can never happen. Emma can go to a ball with her parents, but she's thirty. Snow doesn't get the moments of watching her child experience the world for the first time. Being together now doesn't fix the past. There is no second chance for Emma and her parents. 

Edited by KAOS Agent
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I guess I'm out. Emma is boring me to tears. This is like a really bad soap opera. Without lots of Carlyle - I just can't do it. Only made it to first commercial break. May drop by here to see if anything interesting enough is happening to bring me back to watching.

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I guess I'm out. Emma is boring me to tears. This is like a really bad soap opera. Without lots of Carlyle - I just can't do it. Only made it to first commercial break. May drop by here to see if anything interesting enough is happening to bring me back to watching.

 

Personally, I'm just not getting any menace or threat from Dark Swan in the present day is supposed to be, she's more moody and pouty than actually struggling with the darkness inside of her.

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The Camelot characters were used judicially this episode. That makes Merida's presence in the first episode seem all the more out of place.

 

Personally, I'm just not getting any menace or threat from Dark Swan in the present day is supposed to be, she's more moody and pouty than actually struggling with the darkness inside of her.

 

At this point, she has given in to the Darkness, so there wouldn't be a struggle. But I agree that Dark Swan seems hardly a threat in Storybrooke.

Edited by Rumsy4
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Storybrooke people end up in Camelot, and they get put up in a castle and thrown a ball. Camelot people end up in Storybrooke, and they get put up in... tents in a field??? Seriously? Who is staying at Granny's? There aren't 3 or 4 extra bedrooms (or even a futon) at Regina's house to even take in Arthur and Gwen (and maybe a lady in waiting or two)? Nice to know that there's a surplus of camping gear in Storybrooke, though. geesh. horrible hosts.

 

Heck, how about housing Arthur's court in The Sorcerer's empty mansion?  Did A&E forget that The Sorcerer = Merlin?

 

Even if you go with the idea that Regina was a tomboy growing up and skipped her mother's dancing lessons and instead went and rode horses, there's still a ton of years you have to retcon with her marriage to Leopold. Are you telling me that at her own wedding, Leopold and Regina didn't even have a fake dance? Or any of the years that they were married?

 

 

Remember, Leopold was too busy caring about Snow and ignoring Regina.  Since that was a great time to bring that up.  

 

I choose to believe that Snowing's preoccupation with making sure Regina could dance, was to ensure she played the part as the Savior at the ball, so Emma wouldn't have to use her Dark Magic.  But imagine if they had given that screentime to Snow, Charming and Emma preparing for the dance, and discussing the situation at hand.  As much as I liked the Snow/Emma scene, I agree with the above poster that it was basically tacked on and only a fraction of the length compared to the pep talk with Regina.

Edited by Camera One
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The Camelot characters were used judicially this episode. That makes Merida's presence in the first episode seem all the more out of place.

 

I didn't even realize she wasn't there, which means I really don't care for the character.

 

At this point, she has given in to the Darkness, so there wouldn't be a struggle. But I agree that Dark Swan seems hardly a threat in Storybrooke.

I felt sorry for her at the end there when she was trying to look inside Granny's and then walked away. The weight of this is already starting to get to her.

 

I'm surprised no one talked gleefully about Regina's ass getting whooped by the fury. She got her ass kicked and Emma nearly bit her head off, with reason.

 

Is Robin a marked man this season? This is like the second episode in a row where his life is threatened.

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I'm surprised no one talked gleefully about Regina's ass getting whooped by the fury. She got her ass kicked and Emma nearly bit her head off, with reason.

 

That was such a weird scene. It was basically all bad CGI fighting, Regina getting thrown into trees, and then Regina has a tiny bloody nose and Snowing's all "OMG you need to get that super serious injury checked out! You're not bleeding anywhere else, but that bloody nose looks really bad! You have to give up now and go straight to the hospital!" At least show Regina with a huge open wound on her forehead or a possible broken bone.

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Yeah, I had forgotten all about Merida too.  

 

I don't mind Dark Emma not being much of a threat.  Her main concern in this episode was that Regina finally pays a price for her actions, which in this case was pressuring Emma to save Robin Hood.  Contrary the real Emma, Dark Emma was choosing NOT to help in this situation.  I also felt sorry for Dark Emma at the end, and I'm glad she's not a full-out muahahahaha villain.

Edited by Camera One
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I also felt sorry for Dark Emma at the end, and I'm glad she's not a full-out muahahahaha villain.

 

I thought she was clearly torn. With both Henry and Hook, and the whole it's complicated and then I wish I could tell you, I really wonder if she hasn't been commanded to not say anything. I think the command holds even if she has the dagger in her possession, no? I think that was sort of established with Anna when she commanded Rumple not to harm her and Elsa.

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Being together now doesn't fix the past. There is no second chance for Emma and her parents.

Was outraged but now super sad... thanks a lot KAOS.

 

 

This is like a really bad soap opera. Without lots of Carlyle - I just can't do it.

I think I've said that from day one but it is indeed especially true now.

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I don't mind Dark Emma not being much of a threat.  

 

I don't either but what I find strange is the lack of denial in her parents.  Regina and the Charmings seemed to have jumped straight to Emma being the big bad with Snow going as far as saying that if they win then Emma loses.  Its not like they have memories of some terrible thing or that they've been actively trying to kill Rumpel for being the Dark One.  So why is Emma so scary?  Why didn't they all react the way Hook did which was basically trying to find Emma below the surface.

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Regina and the Charmings seemed to have jumped straight to Emma being the big bad with Snow going as far as saying that if they win then Emma loses.  Its not like they have memories of some terrible thing or that they've been actively trying to kill Rumpel for being the Dark One.  So why is Emma so scary?  Why didn't they all react the way Hook did which was basically trying to find Emma below the surface.

Because PLOT.

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She vowed revenge on them all and turned a Dwarf into rock in front of them (who was easily turned back into a dwarf which defeated the whole point?).  I assumed that's why they jumped to her being too far gone?

 

It wasn't just Hook.  The writers also had Henry summoning Emma.  Clearly, they either didn't want to spend time on Snowing confronting Dark Emma, perhaps due to repetition in a single episode, or (more likely) they're saving it for a future episode where we find out what horrible thing Snowing did to Emma this time.

Edited by Camera One
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Is Robin a marked man this season? This is like the second episode in a row where his life is threatened.

 

"Don't tempt me, Frodo!" :-p I was half cheering for Robin to die, except I realized he occasionally acts as a Woegina sponge. Even props have their uses, afterall...

 

That was such a weird scene. It was basically all bad CGI fighting, Regina getting thrown into trees, and then Regina has a tiny bloody nose and Snowing's all "OMG you need to get that super serious injury checked out! You're not bleeding anywhere else, but that bloody nose looks really bad! You have to give up now and go straight to the hospital!" At least show Regina with a huge open wound on her forehead or a possible broken bone.

 

And it's not like Regina couldn't have healed herself. It definitely was a weird scene. 

Edited by Rumsy4
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I just remembered Emma healed Snow when she hit her head on a rock.  Now I'm doubly confused why she "loved" her dark magical powers healing Robin so much more.  

 

All magic comes with a price. Somewhere, some random Storybrooke citizen bumped their head into a wall after Emma healed Snow's wound.

 

This is where the Calvinball (thanks to whoever mentioned that because it fits perfectly) rules of magic are so confusing. Emma doesn't have to pay the price of healing a small wound, but when a life is on the line, then apparently that taps into dark magic. So a wound or cut falls into light magic, but a life falls into dark magic. But True Love's Kiss—the lightest magic of all—can revive Henry from being in his death-like state in Season 1.

Edited by Curio
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The problem, I think, is that they are having trouble distinguishing light magic from dark magic. Does it literally just mean what colors your sparkles are, or does it have to do with how you use your magic? Because I thought Emma could control light magic? Does her light magic not count if she`s the Dark One? Even if she is doing something good? 

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I'm still wondering why after watching Emma have a conversation with the wall, use the dark magic she's not supposed to use, randomly make out with Hook and then say she needed to go lay down, not a single one of them thought that maybe they shouldn't let her wander off alone and they should go check on her. These people suck at helping Emma. 

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I just remembered Emma healed Snow when she hit her head on a rock.  Now I'm doubly confused why she "loved" her dark magical powers healing Robin so much more.  

BECAUSE PLOT! ;)

 

It doesn't make sense. Emma herself, without Dark Flubber, is a very powerful magical being in her own right and capable of healing people. So the idea that she's all about enjoying the power that Dark Flubber gives her strikes me as ludicrous. Now, if you were to tell me that she likes not having the obligation to help people and that's why she became Dark Emma, then sure, great, that sounds like a legitimate motive for Emma to like Dark Flubber and as a result is having a hard time resisting. But that's not the reasoning the writers are using. No, they're going with because "she likes the power". Ya, no. That right there is "Because PLOT!" reasoning. That's "because The Plot said so!" and not because it makes sense for the character.

 

It took Emma forever to even accept that she herself had magic and was very powerful, but suddenly because of Dark Flubber she's all  "Mmmm, Power. Nom Nom Nom!"???? I'm not buying it. (Also, whoever upthread dubbed all this crap as Calvinball is spot on).

 

These people suck at helping Emma.

These people just suck. Period.

 

...I still can't get over how much time Snowing spent up Regina's arse in this episode versus worried about their own daughter. You'd think I'd be used to Snowing's lack of concern for Emma  by now, but no.

Edited by regularlyleaded
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I'm still wondering why after watching Emma have a conversation with the wall, use the dark magic she's not supposed to use, randomly make out with Hook and then say she needed to go lay down, not a single one of them thought that maybe they shouldn't let her wander off alone and they should go check on her. These people suck at helping Emma. 

 

I thought for sure they were going to follow that scene up with either Hook or her parents checking in on Emma in her bedroom and they'd close the episode with a nice, serious character-driven conversation. But instead, literally every single person in that room remained glued to the spots the director told them to be in and we had that awkward conversation with Arthur standing in the doorway and Emma standing in the background. 

Edited by Curio
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It took Emma forever to accept that she had magic and was powerful, but suddenly because of Dark Flubber she's all  "Mmmm, Power. Nom Nom Nom!". I'm not buying it. (Also, whoever upthread dubbed all this crap as Calvinball is spot on).
The one thing I'll grant the writers is I do think it was established over conversations with Regina and Rumple that dark magic has an addictive and corruptive quality. This is dark magic's usual price. So I can accept that it's just different for Emma to use dark magic instead of light magic, and that as we learn more about what makes her embrace being the Dark Swan, we'll also learn more about her relationship to dark magic. 

 

Of course, it's bound to contradict everything we've seen about Regina and dark magic in s3 and s4, but details... details...

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I thought for sure they were going to follow that scene up with either Hook or her parents checking in on Emma in her bedroom and they'd close the episode with a nice, serious character-driven conversation. But instead, literally every single person in that room remained glued to the spots the director told them to be in and we had that awkward conversation with Arthur standing in the doorway and Emma standing in the background. 

 

Half the fun is filling in the blanks.  There was a deleted scene where Emma noticed she had a bottle of Advil in her pocket.  Taking pharmaceuticals only adds to the Darkness.

Edited by Camera One
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The one thing I'll grant the writers is I do think it was established over conversations with Regina and Rumple that dark magic has an addictive and corruptive quality.

Oh no! Its the Dark Willow story Buffy all over again! Not that!

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I ended up going to see The Martian last night (which is excellent storytelling BTW), hence being late to the (Regina pity) party. I am so over this "Regina's just a sad little wooby" bullshit that it's making me all kindsa stabby! I hate, Hate, HATE being told what to think/how to feel and that's exactly what the writers are doing with Regina IMO. I know it's to be expected, but I really don't know how much more I can take.

The contrast between Woegina's constant whining/crying/blaming everyone else for her troubles and the quiet moment with Captain Beauty couldn't be more stark.

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Does her light magic not count if she`s the Dark One? Even if she is doing something good?

Maybe that's what it is. Whatever magic she does in now tinged with Darkness. I got nothing else.

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Oh no! Its the Dark Willow story Buffy all over again! Not that!

Yeah. That sucked all kinds of ass. Plus, Willow went Dark over a selfish desire to get revenge on Warren, not to save the people she loved.

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I'm really confused on Regina's Savior status. So she was the one to break the curse in 3B then use light magic to defeat Zelena. Then everyone called her a hero. Then in 4B, Henry uses her blood as Savior blood to fix everything. This episode seems to make it even more ambiguous... is she or is she not a Savior like Emma in the eyes of the show?

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The word "Savior" was used a whopping 21 times this episode!  When they use a word, they REALLY go all out with flogging a dead horse.

 

I do find Dark Emma's line to Regina interesting: "We'll see about that, because there's a problem headed to Storybrooke that only a savior can solve."  So a Savior could defeat the Fury by being willing to sacrifice herself?  Or a Savior could defeat the Fury because the Savior has everyone's help?  I mean, we've seen Regina being willing to sacrifice herself before, even in the 4B premiere with the Winged Demon.  What does being a Savior even mean?

Edited by Camera One
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I do find Dark Emma's line to Regina interesting: "We'll see about that, because there's a problem headed to Storybrooke that only a savior can solve."  So a Savior could defeat the Fury by being willing to sacrifice herself?

 

Or Emma was being vague and the Fury isn't the problem she was referring to. Maybe the problem (possibly Merlin?) has yet to come and the Fury was just inconvenient timing.

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The word "Savior" was used a whopping 21 times this episode!  When they use a word, they REALLY go all out with flogging a dead horse.

 

Day-um. That makes "cleave" positively rare.

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The word "Savior" was used a whopping 21 times this episode!  When they use a word, they REALLY go all out with flogging a dead horse.

 

Well they used Dark One 13 times in this ep and 14 in the previous one, so if we go with Saviour vs Dark One this season like heroes v villains from 4B, The Dark One is still winning (Saviour was used once in the premiere). They backed way off from using Darkness this episode at least. In the premiere, it was used 17 times. Here they only said it five.

 

This show is not at all subtle about its themes. Maybe the writers have some sort of game to see who can insert the theme words of the season the most times into an episode. It's like the cops here who compete as to who has let the highest speed drivers go past without pulling them over.

Edited by KAOS Agent
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I do find Dark Emma's line to Regina interesting: "We'll see about that, because there's a problem headed to Storybrooke that only a savior can solve."  So a Savior could defeat the Fury by being willing to sacrifice herself?

That's assuming the Fury was what Emma was talking about. There may be something worse headed their way, and they'll miss it while they're busy celebrating beating the Fury.

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Well they used Dark One 13 times in this ep and 14 in the previous one, so if we go with Saviour vs Dark One this season like heroes v villains from 4B, The Dark One is still winning (Saviour was used once in the premiere). They backed way off from using Darkness this episode at least. In the premiere, it was used 17 times. Here they only said it five.

 

This show is not at all subtle about its themes. Maybe the writers have some sort of game to see who can insert the theme words of the season the most times into an episode. It's like the cops here who compete as to who has let the highest speed drivers go past without pulling them over.

 

LOL. If they don't, can you imagine how many we'd get with them actually trying???

 

It does look like Savior vs. Dark One is the new hero vs. villain.

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I like to be able to make my own first impressions of characters, but that shady music they put on whenever Guinevere came onscreen made me suspicious of her and not like her very much.  Even though what she was saying about being concerned with Percival dying was valid.  

 

And what was with naming Percival only after he died?  I liked him in the first episode since it was funny they had Arthur, Lancelot and then him galloping around with no name.  I resent that they are destroying the good names of the Knights of the Round Table.  What's next, destroying Robin Hood and Maid Marian?

Edited by Camera One
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I don't either but what I find strange is the lack of denial in her parents.  Regina and the Charmings seemed to have jumped straight to Emma being the big bad with Snow going as far as saying that if they win then Emma loses.  Its not like they have memories of some terrible thing or that they've been actively trying to kill Rumpel for being the Dark One.  So why is Emma so scary?  Why didn't they all react the way Hook did which was basically trying to find Emma below the surface.

Right? She doesn't even have any Evil Cleavage! She's all covered up. They should wait to declare her irredeemable until she busts out the push up bras.

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Oh and it looks like Henry likes girls.  I was starting to worry. 

Not like it's his first time.  He had a crush on Ava/Gretel in season one, too.

 

Henry's little romance, with Charming giving him a shove to get started.

YES!  I loved that!  That was so cute!:)

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This could just be my own nerdiness talking but I could understand Emma being drawn to Dark One magic over white magic if it came with the accumulated magical knowledge of all the previous Dark Ones. Even if it's all unconscious until the lore/spell/whatever is relevant to the situation at hand e.g. she recites a bit of lore about stone circles while Merida tries to kill her, she knows about the importance of paying the price but still gets into a debate about it with Rumple.   

 

Emma's magic is powerful but she mostly wiggles her fingers and hopes for the best, there'd be a big attraction to not only being powerful but also knowledgeable. 

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I do find Dark Emma's line to Regina interesting: "We'll see about that, because there's a problem headed to Storybrooke that only a savior can solve."

 

I thought the interesting line was "Now life is precious to you?"

 

If that's not foreshadowing of something Regina did in Camelot, I don't know what is.

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That was such a weird scene. It was basically all bad CGI fighting, Regina getting thrown into trees, and then Regina has a tiny bloody nose and Snowing's all "OMG you need to get that super serious injury checked out! You're not bleeding anywhere else, but that bloody nose looks really bad! You have to give up now and go straight to the hospital!" At least show Regina with a huge open wound on her forehead or a possible broken bone.

I think she had a concussion that she probably healed with magic. Lana actually did an admirable job of looking dazed, nauseous and wobbly when the rest of the crew caught up to her, which sold the scene for me. As for her medical treatment, I'm gonna go with #ItHappenedOffScreen.
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I think she had a concussion that she probably healed with magic.

 

Which would mark the very first time on this show someone gave a shit about a concussion. Usually, everyone treats those kind of injuries with the same amount of care and sensitivity the NFL does. Hook gets thrown around like a rag doll constantly but no one ever stops and goes, "Oh, hey buddy. You should probably get that checked out."

 

Also, if she healed her concussion with magic, did she have to use dark magic and pay a price since Emma paid a price for healing Robin's injury?

Edited by Curio
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Regina said she couldn't heal Robin only because the enchanted sword was specifically meant to defeat her.  So if Robin had NOT been cut with that sword, Regina could have cured him?  If that had been the case, would there even have been a price?  How convenient there wasn't another healer on the trip with them... so Mother Superior just really hates them all, doesn't she?

Edited by Camera One
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I noticed this in the promo photos but figured it would be explained in the episode, and yet it wasn't, so: Why were they all wearing the same clothes they were wearing when they went to Camelot once they got back to Storybrooke?

 

It was night when Granny's returned to Storybrooke, and everyone was in Camelot clothes. Then this episode starts in daylight, and Regina and Snow (the ones whose clothes are most distinctive -- the men tend to wear the same sort of thing all the time) are wearing the same clothes they were wearing in the flashback scenes in Camelot before they changed for the ball. I can see them having changed into Storybrooke clothes because they're a lot more practical (even though these people should be used to and comfortable with fairy tale clothes), but how/why the same clothes? Were their Camelot clothes just a spell that wore off soon after their return, so they found themselves right back in their old clothes? Did Regina poof them back into modern clothes? Did they still have their modern clothes at Granny's, and they all went to change before going about their business? And if so, why did they put the clothes they were wearing six weeks ago back on rather than running home to change into clean clothes and maybe take a shower?

 

All that "price" stuff makes no sense. Rumple healed people he cared about left and right without there being any cost -- he was always healing Bae in the past, and we saw him healing Belle from the gunshot wound. Was the problem that Regina asked Emma to do it? Would it have been okay if Emma just decided to do it on her own without being asked? Rumple healed Whale for the price of making Whale say that magic beats science, so why couldn't Emma have asked some similar price, like making Regina say that Emma rules. Or, if we want to get a little darker, Emma gets primary custody of Henry -- a different kind of life for a life, making Regina actually pay, making Regina make a choice, but it's still not that big a deal because they're in the same town and it's not like Regina is losing anything except symbolically.

 

And this is twice in two episodes that Regina has chosen Robin over Emma's well-being. Yeah, it was a life vs. something more nebulous, but we're also talking about Regina choosing someone else over someone who sacrificed everything to save her.

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That whole scene was such bullshit. Other than Emma still believing that she is the Savior or still being in that mindset, nothing good came out of it. Regina is all hey look, I'm not commanding you to do it, but seriously, do it! 

 

The only person who paid a price in that episode was Emma. So I'm assuming the title of the episode had to do with Emma and not Regina. Because Regina doesn't pay for anything ever (the missing year doesn't count).

 

Robin's life should still be forfeit because Regina did not pay. 

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So why is Emma so scary?  Why didn't they all react the way Hook did which was basically trying to find Emma below the surface.

Dunno, present day Dark Swan Emma doesn't seem scary at all, maybe there's something later on, but still.

 

That whole scene was such bullshit. Other than Emma still believing that she is the Savior or still being in that mindset, nothing good came out of it. Regina is all hey look, I'm not commanding you to do it, but seriously, do it!

The only person who paid a price in that episode was Emma. So I'm assuming the title of the episode had to do with Emma and not Regina. Because Regina doesn't pay for anything ever (the missing year doesn't count).

Robin's life should still be forfeit because Regina did not pay.

 

That scene was just bad, that and they somehow avoided paying an actual price like the title suggests because they were all in it together or something.

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