S13.E02: Personal Day

[MyAimIsTrue]

Gibbs calls on the team to assist DEA Agent Luis Mitchell with a case that keeps going cold, but DiNozzo discovers there is more to Gibbs’ personal connection to the agent and his desire to help him succeed. Also, the team gossips about Gibbs’ new look after he replaces his standard military haircut and polo shirt for a modern cut and tailored dress shirt.

[ParadoxLost]

How long did Harmon extend his contract for?  This is feeling like Gibbs is getting ready to retire and trying to decide if he can bequeath the team to Tony.

[MyAimIsTrue]

This was a rare miss for me.  I started nodding off about five minutes into the episode and never recovered.

[pcta]

Feels that way. If Gibbs is done, time to wrap the show up.

[Autumn]

There was nothing that interesting about the case.  They keep building stories around the Shannon/Kelly drug cartel stuff even though that wasn't that interesting the first few times they did it years ago.

 

I think Tony does just fine with the team when Gibbs is gone.  When Gibbs is there Tony defers to him and starts seeking his approval.  I think Gibbs was trying to tell him he needs to stop looking for approval and just do the job.

[slothgirl]

I'm hoping that they are looking for a way to return to a more lighthearted Gibbs, but it does feel like they are trying to close a bunch of chapters and end the series.

 

... or spin-off to a new version with Tony in charge. I think just having Gibbs gone and Tony taking over wouldn't work unless NCIS original recipe comes to an end and they do a spin-off. It would be too jarring to simply continue with the same show, cast, sets, etc.

 

This episode was too convoluted up front for my taste. Ray, the other guy whose name I've already forgotten, the dead marine whose name I've forgotten, stoner guy, AND a new cross agency cohort who starts inexplicably talking about his Dad before we know that we are supposed to be paying close attention to his story about his Dad. At the time, all I could think was "Wow, that was quite the tone shift from what they were just talking about! WTF?". They could have accomplished the same story with fewer bad guys and bit players.

 

For all the fuss about Gibbs' new "look", he really looked older and tired to me. I don't know if it was the change of shirt style, the longer hair, or not wearing colors that work as well on him, but MH wasn't "improved" (visually) by the makeover, IMO.

Edited September 30, 2015 by slothgirl

[GHScorpiosRule]

T-Bag!!!!!!!!*

 

Who is this Mitch person? And what an eye-roll worthy way to introduce him.  This show did a better job of introducing Kelly's childhood best friend, even though we never saw her after her first and only appearance.

 

And I still don't know why Gibbs blew Tony off last week; I don't see where he's coming from. It's like they decided to shove this episode in, with all the build up done off-screen.

 

But dayum is Tony lookin' haaaawt.

 

Ahem.

 

I hope Mitch doesn't come back. 

 

It's disgusting how Mark Harmon just looks better and better looking. Silver hair and all!

 

*Prison Break fans will know what I'm talking about!

 

ETA: Because spelling is important, Dammit!

Edited September 30, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[ParadoxLost]

For all the fuss about Gibbs' new "look", he really looked older and tired to me. I don't know if it was the change of shirt style, the longer hair, or not wearing colors that work as well on him, but MH wasn't "improved" (visually) by the makeover, IMO.

 

I think its the hair.  He used to have more pepper at the roots.  That's either gone now or the length is covering it up.

[Colorado David]

Thank you, I could NOT remember Teabag's name. I kept thinking pocket hanging out guy, that didn't sound right.

[Mama No Life]

I think its the hair.  He used to have more pepper at the roots.  That's either gone now or the length is covering it up.

 

He's lost weight.  When you lose weight at older ages, it makes you look haggard. He looks a lot older since last season. 

 

I don't get the Tony stuff.    I know.   It's cool.   For Gibbs.   To talk.   Two words.   At a.   Time but.   I needed.  Sentences tonight. 

I have no idea what he's trying to do, and it appears neither does Tony.

I'd watch a DiNozzo spinoff for sure...Tony's my fav.  And it would have to be more interesting than tonight.

[camussie]

I seem to remember something about MH planning on having knee replacement surgery over the break. If he did he probably wasn't able to keep up activity levels this past summer which would explain the haggard look

[secnarf]

It's T-Bag, not teabag lol - an abbreviation of his name (Theodore Bagwell).

Every time I see him, he plays a similar character and I have no idea what the actor's actual name is, but I don't think I'll ever be able to see him in a different role and buy that he's not involved in some type of criminal activity. So, I suppose it was a good casting choice here.

 

I was quite confused/bored with the actual plot though. And I don't see the huge difference in before-and-after Gibbs. There's a slight difference, but really, not enough for the characters to be getting all excited about.

 

I don't understand the purpose of Abby's broken/sprained fingers. However, I would have absolutely loved to have those shoes when I was five.

[sinkwriter]

 

 

It's T-Bag, not teabag lol - an abbreviation of his name (Theodore Bagwell).

Every time I see him, he plays a similar character and I have no idea what the actor's actual name is, but I don't think I'll ever be able to see him in a different role and buy that he's not involved in some type of criminal activity. So, I suppose it was a good casting choice here.

 

That was the marvelous Robert Knepper. I thought he downplayed quite a bit in comparison to how he played T-Bag, so... it was good to me. And I liked the approach he took when they informed him his cousin was dead. The emotions crossing his face as he said, "This is how I'm notified?" had some nice nuance to it that "just any actor" couldn't have done.

 

Nevertheless, I'm just glad he didn't tell anyone to hold his pocket.  *GRIN*  *shudder*

Add me to those still confused by Gibbs and his behavior toward Tony. I don't understand why he would sideline him to test if he wants to be there and lead a team. That makes no sense. I thought there were other things at play, like maybe he felt like Tony didn't really have his six in Iraq and wanted to punish him for it. Like he wouldn't have his team's backs or something. Which is ludicrous of course, but I could see Gibbs feeling that way after what he's been through. But we didn't get that kind of challenge between them in any of the conversations they had, so... I'm baffled. I feel like the writers did not do a very good job of showing why Gibbs was behaving the way he was toward Tony, being so petty and dismissive. It felt like there was no real resolution or aim for any of it. That's annoying.

[slothgirl]

I don't think it was the lack of "pepper" tone in his hair that aged him. His whole face just looked tired and haggard. I think the length doesn't work on him and if he's lost weight, then the folds and lines in his face will be more pronounced. Longer hair just makes him look more "unkept".

 

I don't know, the makeover was slight (compared to all the on-screen fuss about it) but at the same time, he looked remarkably different, and not in a good way. He looked more like an aging businessman than our silver fox

[buttersister]

All these years, I've been waiting for Gibbs to lose that military haircut. No offense, military people with that haircut. But I remember Harmon with better hair, no matter the color. Thanks, Mark! (He looked good on my HDTV.) Aw, he sold that touching hand touching Shannon's hand print.

[catray]

Ok, I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling like this is Gibbs' farewell tour. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Harmon steps back or retires at the end of this season. Personally, I would still watch if Tony took charge and Gibbs was reduced to a more supporting role, but I also feel like maybe the show should end at that point. I guess we'll see what happens.

The beginning of this episode really threw me, because I thought maybe Tony and McGee knew Mitch but no, it was Gibbs and yet more backstory. I wasn't particularly interested-- I was more interested in Tony/Gibbs and continuing to love the background interactions between the characters. I especially loved Tim catching on to Tony knowing something. I had to laugh when Tony called a campfire because so many people seem to hate it.

Looking forward to next with McGee and Bishop going undercover together. I feel like it's usually Tony, so I hope next week is fun.

[atir]

I didn't think he looked unkempt but I so wished we could have had waaaaay more time viewing Abby's portfolio of Gibbs with different hairstyles. Some of those looked amazing.

[betsyboo]

Teabag!!!!!!!!*

 

 

And I still don't know why Gibbs blew Tony off last week; I don't see where he's coming from. It's like they decided to shove this episode in, with all the build up done off-screen.

 

 

*Prison Break fans will know what I'm talking about!

I LOVE me some Robert Knepper. LOVE. See my Prison Break treatise: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/30353-t-bag-best-evil-character-ever-discuss/#entry1412488

 

It's T-Bag, not teabag lol - an abbreviation of his name (Theodore Bagwell).

Every time I see him, he plays a similar character and I have no idea what the actor's actual name is, but I don't think I'll ever be able to see him in a different role and buy that he's not involved in some type of criminal activity. So, I suppose it was a good casting choice here.

 

 

He plays *creepy* just so well!!!

That was the marvelous Robert Knepper. I thought he downplayed quite a bit in comparison to how he played T-Bag, so... it was good to me. And I liked the approach he took when they informed him his cousin was dead. The emotions crossing his face as he said, "This is how I'm notified?" had some nice nuance to it that "just any actor" couldn't have done.

 

Nevertheless, I'm just glad he didn't tell anyone to hold his pocket.  *GRIN*  *shudder*

Add me to those still confused by Gibbs and his behavior toward Tony. I don't understand why he would sideline him to test if he wants to be there and lead a team. That makes no sense. I thought there were other things at play, like maybe he felt like Tony didn't really have his six in Iraq and wanted to punish him for it. Like he wouldn't have his team's backs or something. Which is ludicrous of course, but I could see Gibbs feeling that way after what he's been through. But we didn't get that kind of challenge between them in any of the conversations they had, so... I'm baffled. I feel like the writers did not do a very good job of showing why Gibbs was behaving the way he was toward Tony, being so petty and dismissive. It felt like there was no real resolution or aim for any of it. That's annoying.

All of this ^^^^. I am still so befuddled as to Gibbs' behavior. Does he think Tony did something wrong?? (other than his perceived inaction in the marketplace, but, again, I attribute Gibbs' anger there directed at himself for letting the boy get to him).

 

Something I did notice tonight was that Tony addressed Gibbs as "Gibbs" all night, instead of "Boss." This was jarring to me!! It's normal when he is referring to Gibbs in conversation with McGee, etc., but when he got his attention with "Gibbs" I found it very disconcerting!

 

FREE FORNELL!

[kassygreene]

From what I can find with 3 minutes of online research, Gibbs should be 57-ish, which apparently is the mandatory retirement age at NCIS.  Not that Show has to care about that.

 

As for the change in outlook - being close enough to dying to see the light I would expect to influence most people.  If nothing else, it is an in-your-face reminder of mortality.  I haven't seen the light (yet), but I've had sudden death in my life in the form of a murder, and I will tell you that lots of assumptions I carried as part of my life's certainties were burned away nearly instantly.  Gibbs had his knee destroyed and shrapnel picked out of his heart-area.  The wounds were caused by a kid he was caring for.  Show went from the shooting to closing the case against the Fagin-terrorist in forty-three minutes, but the show's elapsed time was several months.

[GHScorpiosRule]

It's T-Bag, not teabag lol - an abbreviation of his name (Theodore Bagwell).

D'OH! I knew it didn't look right! All fixed!  I knew it was Knepper, but normally, here, and at the other place (*sniff*), folks usually identify actors by popular characters they've played, heh.

[pally]

The haggard look is in part deliberate in order to show the physical impact of the shooting.  Gibbs saw his own mortality and I think he is seeing in Tony the younger, more fit bull primed and ready to take over for the aging one...therefore Tony becomes the target of his anger.  Besides, it is far easier to make someone else the target rather than facing his own demons and fears.  

[Betweenthisandthat]

I enjoyed this one alot.  Liked the premiere too, but I'm a big Tony fan and liked where both episodes took his character.

 

Gibbs told Tony why he sidelined him in the elevator scene.  Tony would have sensed something between Gibbs and Mitch and wouldn't be able to mind his business and wanted him to protect the team and focus on the work.  Focusing on the work I understand, the protecting the team part needs more explanation.  It could be that Gibbs is really thinking about leaving the team or taking a step back and having Tony lead.  It's clear to me that Tony can lead.  Gibbs is such a control freak, even more now than he was in season 4, that I can see him passing the team to Tony gradually and as part of a long process.  Tony has lead the team before but Gibbs so unceremoniously ousted him that it felt like it was always a temporary decision.  This time, if Gibbs is really planning to leave or take a step back, it would be a different choice than running off to Mexico to avoid life.

 

The biggest change Gibbs has made is in telling Mitch that revenge isn't worth it.  Gibbs has been all about revenge for a long time. Even last season he helped Fornell avenge Diane's death and he did the complete opposite here. That was shocking.

 

It's been noted that Tony didn't call Gibbs "Boss," and that makes sense seeing that Tony is questioning Gibbs' M.O. in a real way and isn't blindly taking orders from his "Boss."

 

I don't know if Gibbs is even angry at Tony.  I can't decide, but I don't completely buy that that's Gibbs' motivation in the end.  He wanted to control Tony and what Tony knew and how he'd react, but that's nothing new and that makes more sense to me given what happened in the episode.  What was different was that Tony was angry at Gibbs and was 100% done with the way he was doing things in this case.  I saw Tony's anger and impatience, which was warranted, more than I saw anger from Gibbs.

 

I loved the teamwork with Tony, McGee, and Bishop and that Tony airing Gibbs' dirty laundry lead to stopping Mitch and that arrest at the end of the show.  I understand what is going on between Tony and Gibbs for now, although I assume what Gibbs is really thinking will remain a mystery for awhile longer, and I'm interested to see where this will lead.  

Edited September 30, 2015 by Betweenthisandthat

[Clanstarling]

I seem to remember something about MH planning on having knee replacement surgery over the break. If he did he probably wasn't able to keep up activity levels this past summer which would explain the haggard look

 

 

 Gibbs had his knee destroyed and shrapnel picked out of his heart-area.  The wounds were caused by a kid he was caring for.  Show went from the shooting to closing the case against the Fagin-terrorist in forty-three minutes, but the show's elapsed time was several months.

So, having Gibbs take a shot in the knee was a back-up plan in the event that Harmon didn't recover as quickly as expected from the knee surgery. Don't know why, but that connection amuses me.

 

Harmon is 64, so he's no spring chicken. I thought he looked pretty foxy for a man his age (I'm married to one, so I've learned to appreciate the wrinkles). To me, the haggard was more in the eyes - and it was sorrow or something along those lines.

 

I do agree the story felt a little disjointed - the drugs in the rugs (hee) seemed an important discovery, and then they had nothing to do with the take down.

 

Count me as one of those confused by what the tension between Gibbs and Tony is supposed to be. Gibbs has always been a taciturn character, but I don't remember ever being as puzzled as this before.

I don't understand the purpose of Abby's broken/sprained fingers. However, I would have absolutely loved to have those shoes when I was five.

"Five" being the operative word. I'm so tired of Abby's childishness. The "cute" little shuffle to show her sprained fingers annoyed me to no end. Maybe the actress sprained them in real life? The other characters have evolved on the show, she seems to have devolved.

[kassygreene]

Oh yes, Abby has devolved, I think since some time in season 3.  Abby in the JAG backdoor pilot was smart, authoritative, quirky, and a good technical witness in court (despite the Goth-ness, which would probably never play well with military jurors).  When she & McGee were a thing, she was the more worldly one.  Then year by year she has been infantilized and generally dumbed down.  The street smart / life smart Abby has vanished.  She can defend herself when she has too, but they've written her to be the wide-eyed naif too many times.

[sinkwriter]

 

Gibbs told Tony why he sidelined him in the elevator scene.  Tony would have sensed something between Gibbs and Mitch and wouldn't be able to mind his business and wanted him to protect the team and focus on the work.

 

I still don't think that was well thought through by the writers. If he sidelined Tony because he feared Tony would catch on to the connection Gibbs has with Agent Mitchell's son, then (to me) he only made it more obvious that there was something for Tony to notice BY sidelining him and leaving him with nothing to do but dig around and think about stuff.

 

I could see if Gibbs was telling him to stop seeking approval and just start leading, because Tony does have a tendency to seek out Gibbs' approval. But Tony defers to him because Gibbs IS the boss at this time, and when he sees something wrong, Tony does speak out about it, like he did in this episode. So I really don't understand this whole Tony-Gibbs "fight."

 

I did love the staredown between Tony and McGee, as Tony mentally tried to decide whether or not to tell McGee the truth. In the past I think Tony would have kept it to himself (and McGee would have been really pissed off when he did finally find out the truth, frustrated that Gibbs and/or Tony was hiding stuff from him when they're supposed to be a team). I think this was a nice moment for Tony and McGee, where Tony ultimately felt he could not hold that information to himself and he took the chance to trust his teammates. Impressive! And a far better team leader example than Gibbs was being in this episode.

[Ohmo]

The chronology and the age of the actor did not work for me...at least not visually.  So, Pedro is now the shooter but not the decision-maker in Shannon/Kelly history.  He had a boss.  OK, fine, but when I figured out who the boss was supposed to be and did the math all the way back to 1991, it took me out of the scenario.  The actor doesn't look old enough NOW, and Pedro looked older than that or at least comparable to that in 1991.  All I kept thinking was "So, this guy was "in charge" of presumably older Pedro when he was what----25?  I finally just had to handwave this as now canon because the plausibility didn't work for me.

 

In the ending scene between Gibbs and Tony, I think I get what Gibbs is trying to do.  He's telling Tony that he (Gibbs) has been at NCIS/NIS because of the Shannon/Kelly reason.  I think that Gibbs accepts that for himself, but he doesn't think Tony has his own reason for being there (or doesn't know it), and if Tony doesn't have one Gibbs doesn't want to see Tony wasting his life.  I think that's the point, but I don't like the execution.  It's coming across as too autere and too hard.  Even with Gibbs being shot, there's no reason for Gibbs to deliver the message to Tony in the way he's doing it (if that's indeed the message).

 

And I don't like Gibbs new wardrobe...at all.  He looks like he should be on The Addams Family as Lurch's assistant.

 

CBS | NCIS (16 mil/2.1) slipped 12 and 16 percent from its season opener, while NCIS: New Orleans (12.6 mil/1.7) and Limitless (9.6 mil/1.9) were rock steady.

 

 

Ratings

[Mama No Life]

But that's what doesn't make sense.  Tony's job can't have purpose just because he's good at it and wants to help people? He has to have some deep dark demon to be motivated? 

[dju]

But that's what doesn't make sense.  Tony's job can't have purpose just because he's good at it and wants to help people? He has to have some deep dark demon to be motivated? 

This is what I was stuck on too - especially when they made a point of having Tony ask the, "Do you mean do I wanna be you?" question. Gibbs having a 'reason' for joining and then staying at NIS/NCIS has also meant being perpetually stuck in his grief. I don't understand why we're suddenly demanding from Tony that he re-evaluate his life choices and find this fundamental 'reason' when he seems to be in a fairly healthy and strong place and has proven that he handles running cases and running the team on his own actually quite well. If this is supposed to be Gibbs' attempt at grooming Tony to take over as team leader he's got a funny way of going about it.

Edited September 30, 2015 by dju

[Betweenthisandthat]

NCIS has shown Gibbs to be this hero for so many seasons now that I see Tony asking Gibbs "Do I want to be you?" as a way to question that not as confirmation that he should be Gibbs.  I don't think that this is leading to Tony becoming Gibbs but finally letting him be himself and being very much not like him and being just as good of a leader anyway.  It's all been about "WWGD" (What would Gibbs do) and other agents seeing Gibbs as this legend, even Dornegut referred to Gibbs as someone he modeled when he wanted to be authoritative.  Gibbs has almost always been right and rarely been questioned and I see something different happening now through Tony.  I'm noticing that I'm viewing these scenes 180 degrees from how other people here are seeing so I could be completely off track.  

 

Gibbs has treated Tony like this before.  He's "sidelined him," been secretive about what he's thinking and completely unreadable, none of this is new behavior.  The only thing that is new is that Tony is challenging Gibbs in how he treats him and how he did his job in this case.  For once Tony is thinking that Gibbs' way may not be the only way to do things and he's vocal about it now.  

 

The difference between Tony and Gibbs is that Gibbs feels compelled to lead, he has a vision of what that kind of leadership is and rules to follow it.  Does Tony have his own vision of what kind of leader he is?  Does he feel compelled to be a leader?  That's a different set of questions to if he can lead.  He definitely can lead, and he's lead when he had to but does he want to?  Is that a goal he's chasing?  I don't know the answers to that and I expect that he might start to answer these questions now.  Tony doesn't need a trauma to make him be a leader but I understand that he needs a "reason" to want to be one.  If Tony wanted to lead within the universe of the show, wouldn't that be something he'd be doing right now?  He's totally capable of it.  He hasn't been given a storyline that address that one way or the other (until now?).

Edited October 1, 2015 by Betweenthisandthat

[Mama No Life]

That sounds great, and logical.  But you shouldn't have to explain that to me...that's on the writers.  A few words rephrased or tossed in and we all might have that insight. :)

[Ohmo]

He definitely can lead, and he's lead when he had to but does he want to?  Is that a goal he's chasing?  I don't know the answers to that and I expect that he might start to answer these questions now.  Tony doesn't need a trauma to make him be a leader but I understand that he needs a "reason" to want to be one.  If Tony wanted to lead within the universe of the show, wouldn't that be something he'd be doing right now?  He's totally capable of it.  He hasn't been given a storyline that address that one way or the other (until now?).

 

I think that's the point that Gibbs was trying to get to...rather clunkily.

 

Tony's job can't have purpose just because he's good at it and wants to help people? He has to have some deep dark demon to be motivated?

 

No, I don't think Gibbs is saying that Tony needs a demon, but he did specifically bring up the fact that Tony had a chance to lead and passed it up.  Gibbs knows why he's at NCIS, but I think he's trying to get Tony to think about why he's at NCIS.  Like Betweenthisandthat said, Tony's totally capable of leading at this point, and he's been offered it before.  So, looking through the very recent lens of mortality, I think Gibbs is trying to get Tony to think about the reason a) He's still at NCIS and b) Since he wishes to remain at NCIS, why he's not leading at this point.  For someone of Tony's skill set, it is kind of odd to not advance career-wise.

 

(Yeah, I know the TV reason to this point is because Mark's the lead star, but I think we're going to get the character reason for Tony.  We know that the reason turned down Rota was because Gibbs was recovering, but that was a short-term reason.  I think some longer-view reason for why Tony is where he is in life is about to unfold.)

Edited October 1, 2015 by Ohmo

[kazza]

Another vote for a meh episode.

 

Too much from the past and too heavy. Even the brief moments of levity seemed forced (comparing Gibbs pre/post makeover, Abby's platform-shoe-injured fingers)

 

I'm hoping at least this episode is part of a larger arc.

 

Looking forward to next week's episode, when McGee and Bishop go undercover. I really hope it doesn't lead to an Ellie/Jake breakup, though.

[Ohmo]

FREE FORNELL!

 

Speaking of which...

 

Question: Is Tobias Fornell coming back for NCIS Season 13? —Matthias

Ausiello: I can confirm that he who shared an ex-wife with Gibbs (and is played by Joe Spano) is set for an encore this season, though an airdate has not been set.

 

Ask Ausiello

 

(I love me some Fornell any time, any episode, but I didn't think mere confirmation of his presence constituted an actual spoiler for the spoiler thread.  By now, don't most of us think/hope that Fornell will show up at some point every season?)

[slothgirl]

No, I don't think Gibbs is saying that Tony needs a demon, but he did specifically bring up the fact that Tony had a chance to lead and passed it up.  Gibbs knows why he's at NCIS, but I think he's trying to get Tony to think about why he's at NCIS.  Like Betweenthisandthat said, Tony's totally capable of leading at this point, and he's been offered it before.  So, looking through the very recent lens of mortality, I think Gibbs is trying to get Tony to think about the reason a) He's still at NCIS and b) Since he wishes to remain at NCIS, why he's not leading at this point.  For someone of Tony's skill set, it is kind of odd to not advance career-wise.

Now that I'm reading others' posts, I'm starting to feel that Gibbs' question is about why Tony STAYS at NCIS in DC. He was a cop. Gibbs recruited him. He's passed up chances for promotion.

 

So if Gibbs is considering retiring, he might be trying to suss out whether Tony is just there for HIM or whether he is committed to NCIS as an organization and career. So far, Tony's commitment has been to Gibbs more than to the job. Gibbs left before, but Tony was younger and I don't think any one actually expected Gibbs to STAY gone. Even if they did, Tony knows a lot more about what the job of team leader entails now. He was cockier then, and wasn't really ready to be a leader even if he thought he was.

 

So Gibbs may not be looking for some deep dark reason on par with his own; he may just want to hear Tony say that he's committed to NCIS regardless of what happens to Gibbs. That he has reasons for being there beyond loyalty and admiration for Gibbs, combined with inertia in career development.

Edited October 1, 2015 by slothgirl

[betsyboo]

 

 

So Gibbs may not be looking for some deep dark reason on par with his own; he may just want to hear Tony say that he's committed to NCIS regardless of what happens to Gibbs. That he has reasons for being there beyond loyalty and admiration for Gibbs, combined with inertia in career development.

 

Intriguing. I think I like this.

[Mama No Life]

Yes, that sounds good.

 

 

Again, not something we should have to suss out on a message board.

[immortalfrieza]

"Five" being the operative word. I'm so tired of Abby's childishness. The "cute" little shuffle to show her sprained fingers annoyed me to no end. Maybe the actress sprained them in real life? The other characters have evolved on the show, she seems to have devolved.

Then you simply don't like the character. However, the reality is there's plenty of fans that like Abby and her perky Goth behavior, that's the entire reason she is like that. Abby showed some indications of silly behavior early on that lots of fans loved, therefore the writers kept dialing that behavior up until it pretty much became the entirety of her character, just like Mcgee and his computer nerdiness, Ducky's yacking on and on about crap nobody cares about, Tony's general clownish behavior, etc. This happens in every bit of fiction that lasts long enough to every character that also lasts long enough, and the fact that the show is still so popular despite this means that most people are fine with it.

 

 

But that's what doesn't make sense.  Tony's job can't have purpose just because he's good at it and wants to help people? He has to have some deep dark demon to be motivated? 

Another common trope. It isn't easy to find a fictional character ever needs to have some deep dark demon to be motivated, or even just to be reasonably good at what they're doing, and if they don't it's because they're one of those bland "perfect hero" type characters. Sometimes that even becomes part of the fiction's message, such as "if you're not miserable, you're a bad doctor" House. In this case, it's if you aren't damaged in some way you can't be a particularly good agent. Gibbs became an agent because Shannon and Kelly's deaths drove him to want to stop bad people, and it's that which keeps him going.

[Clanstarling]

"Five" being the operative word. I'm so tired of Abby's childishness. The "cute" little shuffle to show her sprained fingers annoyed me to no end. Maybe the actress sprained them in real life? The other characters have evolved on the show, she seems to have devolved.

 

 

Then you simply don't like the character. However, the reality is there's plenty of fans that like Abby and her perky Goth behavior, that's the entire reason she is like that. Abby showed some indications of silly behavior early on that lots of fans loved, therefore the writers kept dialing that behavior up until it pretty much became the entirety of her character, just like Mcgee and his computer nerdiness, Ducky's yacking on and on about crap nobody cares about, Tony's general clownish behavior, etc. This happens in every bit of fiction that lasts long enough to every character that also lasts long enough, and the fact that the show is still so popular despite this means that most people are fine with it.

Huh. Well thank you for sharing your opinion about my tastes. The reality is, that I don't ever imagine I speak for "most people. I liked the Abby character very much, including the Goth affectations and behavior, earlier in the series. Personally, I'm not fine with writers dialing up character traits - despite the fact that it is often done and some fans are okay with it. I consider it poor writing, and generally indicates (to me) the downward slide of a show. 

 

Your mileage may vary.

Edited October 2, 2015 by clanstarling

[MyAimIsTrue]

Gather 'round, DiNozzo style campfire here.

 

We're all entitled to like, love, loathe, snark on, smack the back of the heads of these characters but don't do that to each other.  Don't try to think for someone else.  Be civil.

 

 

[Julia]

I like Abby. She's not my favorite character on television, and she has the quirky turned up to 11, but they let her stay smart and she's actually in a healthy relationship outside of work which we don't have to hear about, and I appreciate both of those things because they're rare for female characters.

 

She's astonishingly popular, though. She and the actress who played Ziva had the highest Q scores of any actresses in scripted television last year.

[Clanstarling]

Gather 'round, DiNozzo style campfire here.

 

We're all entitled to like, love, loathe, snark on, smack the back of the heads of these characters but don't do that to each other.  Don't try to think for someone else.  Be civil.

I apologize. I let the stresses of my day get reflected in my response.

[sinkwriter]

One thing I liked in this episode, involving Abby: when Ducky was yammering on, she stopped him with a hug and "You know how much I usually love your stories, but I need to interrupt." LOL. That was pretty funny. And I liked in turn when Ducky did it to her. 

 

I actually thought Abby was pretty toned down in this episode, compared to others where she seems totally amped up and playing up the baby talk or other behaviors. 

[Ohmo]

You know, I've been thinking about this, and I think I like the fact that it's now verbally-spoken cannon by Gibbs that he's at NCIS because of Shannon and Kelly.  Period.  It has been said by many (even by Kelly herself in this last episode) that Gibbs needs to stop focusing on the past.  However, this feels to me like Gibbs is actually saying, "Shannon/Kelly are the reason I'm here.  Deal with it."  It seems rather refreshing to me on some level.

 

I also like to hang out in the true-crime show forums like Dateline and 48 Hours.  There was this one case in West Virginia where a couple's only child was murdered by two female classmates.  They were convicted.  At the sentencing, the father was given time to speak.  He specifically said that he hadn't forgiven either of the girls, and he hoped they'd rot in Hell.  I wanted to applaud because that was how the man genuinely felt, and he wasn't going to pretend he had forgiven anyone or moved on.  I think that if people genuinely do forgive and move on, that's terrific, but I don't think it's cool for someone to be forced or pressured into doing that.  I do think that society kind of expects that of people, but it may take some people a lot longer or they may never get there at all.

 

Gibbs said that he knows why he's at NCIS.  It's the reason that's personal to him, that works for him, and this last episode kind of felt like he was done justifying the situation to anyone.  It just is what it is, and I think it's realistic to represent that as much as it is to represent those who do decide to forgive and move on.

[Betweenthisandthat]

But you shouldn't have to explain that to me...that's on the writers.  A few words rephrased or tossed in and we all might have that insight. :)

 

I wasn't trying to explain anything to you but was giving my opinion.  What might be clear to me might not work for you, that's okay. Although I do like that not everything is being spelled out right now.  

 

Gibbs said that he knows why he's at NCIS.  It's the reason that's personal to him, that works for him, and this last episode kind of felt like he was done justifying the situation to anyone.  It just is what it is, and I think it's realistic to represent that as much as it is to represent those who do decide to forgive and move on.

 

That's an interesting way to look at it.  I never thought he had to justify himself but it is refreshing to have him speak clearly about what motivates him.  That might be what I'm missing from DiNozzo.  I know that he's motivated by loyalty to the team and Gibbs and a desire to help people and have his life mean something.  I don't know if he's ever said why he he's still with the team after all this time.  When I think of it, it is weird to be on a team for 15 years at this point with no promotion or career advancement.  Does he not care about that?  

Edited October 16, 2015 by Betweenthisandthat

[friendperidot]

quick question re this episode - what was the song that was played at the end and who sang it? I don't follow current music at all, and by current, I mean anything that has come out since about 1980. I rather liked that song.

[Bobbin]

I wonder if repeating this particular episode, with Gibbs asking Tony about his future with NCIS, had to do with the recent announcement that Michael Weatherly is leaving the series. No Ziva, no Tony. Wow. I can't wait to see who they bring in this time.

[betsyboo]

I don't get the Tony stuff.    I know.   It's cool.   For Gibbs.   To talk.   Two words.   At a.   Time but.   I needed.  Sentences tonight. 

I have no idea what he's trying to do, and it appears neither does Tony.

 

 

 

Add me to those still confused by Gibbs and his behavior toward Tony. I don't understand why he would sideline him to test if he wants to be there and lead a team. That makes no sense. I thought there were other things at play, like maybe he felt like Tony didn't really have his six in Iraq and wanted to punish him for it. Like he wouldn't have his team's backs or something. Which is ludicrous of course, but I could see Gibbs feeling that way after what he's been through. But we didn't get that kind of challenge between them in any of the conversations they had, so... I'm baffled. I feel like the writers did not do a very good job of showing why Gibbs was behaving the way he was toward Tony, being so petty and dismissive. It felt like there was no real resolution or aim for any of it. That's annoying.

 

 

All of this ^^^^. I am still so befuddled as to Gibbs' behavior. Does he think Tony did something wrong?? (other than his perceived inaction in the marketplace, but, again, I attribute Gibbs' anger there directed at himself for letting the boy get to him).

 

Something I did notice tonight was that Tony addressed Gibbs as "Gibbs" all night, instead of "Boss." This was jarring to me!! It's normal when he is referring to Gibbs in conversation with McGee, etc., but when he got his attention with "Gibbs" I found it very disconcerting!

 

 

 

In the ending scene between Gibbs and Tony, I think I get what Gibbs is trying to do.  He's telling Tony that he (Gibbs) has been at NCIS/NIS because of the Shannon/Kelly reason.  I think that Gibbs accepts that for himself, but he doesn't think Tony has his own reason for being there (or doesn't know it), and if Tony doesn't have one Gibbs doesn't want to see Tony wasting his life.  I think that's the point, but I don't like the execution.  It's coming across as too autere and too hard.  Even with Gibbs being shot, there's no reason for Gibbs to deliver the message to Tony in the way he's doing it (if that's indeed the message).

 

 

 

But that's what doesn't make sense.  Tony's job can't have purpose just because he's good at it and wants to help people? He has to have some deep dark demon to be motivated? 

(This is the second time in three days I am quoting myself. Do I get demerits for this??? ack)

 

All of the above.

 

I just rewatched this ep and still have the same questions as I did then - even with another 8ish episodes in the bag. I *still* don't understand what Gibbs' damage was. It's like he challenged Tony about not caring enough. "Why do you do this? I know why *I*  do it...."

[Telecat]

The song was "If I Can't Take You With Me," by Heather Stewart, a singer-songwriter from Los Angeles.