S01.E04: Not Fade Away

[peach]

I also thought Liza was being somewhat noble by going to the hospital. The doctor asked her, almost pleaded with her, and she could also keep an eye on her team (Griselda and Nick). Chris has his father (useless, non-gun learning though he is). Since they don't know the extent of the devastation, she probably felt she could do the most good at the hospital. It is a "helper" attitude. People have those in emergencies. 

 

I agree.  I think she felt it in her gut that this doctor was telegraphing that she NEEDED to go with her because it was best for her own people.  Because there are things she can't tell her.  I disagree with the idea that she is blindly trusting the government, she seems to have felt something is way, way off about what is going on, IMO.  And this doctor was the first person she felt like also knows this.  Plus the doctor didn't out her for pretending to be a NP, and even wanted her to continue pretending. Liza must be thinking how bad must it really be if they don't have REAL health professionals to rely on and need HER instead? 

 

I think the doctor is one of the "good guys" and Liza made a gut decision to follow her in the hopes of helping the whole family.   IRL, I can't imagine leaving my kid behind, but he IS with his father. 

As always, YMMV.

[txhorns79]

Or the light flasher in the house on the hill. How is this believable, American soldiers would not commit mass murder on Americans. If they are indeed National Guard, they are local soldiers, no way would they be gunning down their neighbors. Because if they were shooting citizens on the east side of town, other soldiers would be murdering their families on the west side of town.

 

I think the behavior becomes much more believable in the context of a nationwide epidemic where anyone could be infected, the dead reanimate quickly and the situation itself is very fluid.  They aren't doing disaster relief.  They are doing search and destroy, while trying to set up safe zones to save those they can.  Normal people are bound to get caught in that crossfire.     

[guilfoyleatpp]

I know we've talked about this ad nauseam, and  I know we know that TPTB have told us that zombie-ness (movie like Night of the Living Dead) doesn't exist in this world, but I find it ironic that in The Night of The Living Dead everybody wanted to see what was being said on TV (even if it were only a - EGAD - black and white TV). I would submit those are sane rational people who know that in ANY emergency you head for a news outlet. The people in Fear the Walking Dead are, alas, IDIOTS.

RIght?! I mean, AM radio...helloooo....

 

It's LA.  KFI billboards are everywhere.  AM 640.

Edited September 22, 2015 by guilfoyleatpp

[Bongo Fury]

I think the behavior becomes much more believable in the context of a nationwide epidemic where anyone could be infected, the dead reanimate quickly and the situation itself is very fluid.  They aren't doing disaster relief.  They are doing search and destroy, while trying to set up safe zones to save those they can.  Normal people are bound to get caught in that crossfire.     

 

Search and destroy what? American citizens? Civil liberties? The US constitution?

 

And this is precisely disaster relief, response to a pandemic is a part of the national disaster response plan, I've had the training. After Katrina there were mandatory evacuation orders, but people who refused to evacuate were not murdered by the military. As I said, enforcing evacuation orders is NOT the military's job, their job is to protect the constitution. I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said; "those who would sacrifice liberty in the name of safety deserve neither".

 

And how was the person(s) in the house on the hill 'caught in the crossfire'? The clear implication was that the military sough them out and shot them. 

 

Are people even being given a chance to move into SZI? It sure doesn't seem possible. Given the horrors that we have seen people experience, there would be a flood of refugees into the safe zone. Yet there are fewer than 4,000 there. Sure, some people would refuse to leave their homes, but the majority would go to a promised safe haven. So the place should be packed to the gills with people, but it's not. The implication is quite clear, the military is murdering vast numbers of innocent civilians. And that is just bullshit sloppy writing. And as Peach said, insulting to every service member out there.

[Nashville]

Madison should have had red flags going off like crazy when he said he didn't need that pill. She is more fucking stupid than I thought.

Echo echo echo echo ECHO. The only time an addict turns down a free score is when s/he already has a steady supply coming from somewhere else - and usually not even then.

It takes a while for them to shamble along, but you know they are going to herd up and shamble their way to the safe zone buffet.

These military "patrols" appear to be relaxed as hell; Madison was squirming around under that vehicle the entire time the foot patrol was going by, and not a one of them noticed. Me, I'd expect the standing order to be - if in doubt, put another bullet in the head and remove all doubt. I was also surprised at least one or two weren't carrying flame throwers for corpse disposal, especially if they're still in doubt about the vector of infection. This operational laziness leads me to two conclusions:

• The military THINKS they have the situation under control already.
• Since We already know they don't, that must mean a large shamble of walkers (my choice for a collective term) must be amassing somewhere out of the military's view - maybe in the L.A. River storm drainage system, for example, and only coming out to feed on stragglers - and they won't be exposed until their numbers have grown to the point their 'haven' simply can no longer contain their numbers. At which point the shamble will emerge en masse and overrun the woefully unprepared and understaffed military presence.

That, or zombies are REALLY into surfing and there's some really sweet glassy swells breaking off of Zuma. But I digress....

Point #1: Junkies aren't exactly known for their long term thinking.

They are when it comes to supplementing their stash. Enough is NEVER enough.

Free access to a morphine drip notwithstanding, I thought Nick's refusal of a hit of oxy to be the most unrealistic aspect of this episode - more unrealistic than the concept of zombies, even. Not unless he was so wasted as to be physically unable to get the pill - and if that were the case, I'd have serious doubts about his ability to carry on coherent conversation with Mom. EVEN THEN, I'd expect a more believable Nick response to be " save it for later", NOT "give it to Griselda."

Edited September 22, 2015 by Nashville

[txhorns79]

And this is precisely disaster relief, response to a pandemic is a part of the national disaster response plan, I've had the training. After Katrina there were mandatory evacuation orders, but people who refused to evacuate were not murdered by the military. As I said, enforcing evacuation orders is NOT the military's job, their job is to protect the constitution. I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said; "those who would sacrifice liberty in the name of safety deserve neither".

 

But what would Thomas Jefferson's zombie corpse say, you know, after he ripped your shoulder off, and tore into your face?  In a normal evacuation, no you do not shoot those who stay behind.  This is not a normal disaster response.  The dead have risen, for pete's sake.   

[stretch]

Echo echo echo echo ECHO. The only time an addict turns down a free score is when s/he already has a steady supply coming from somewhere else - and usually not even then.

They are when it comes to supplementing their stash. Enough is NEVER enough.

Free access to a morphine drip notwithstanding, I thought Nick's refusal of a hit of oxy to be the most unrealistic aspect of this episode - more unrealistic than the concept of zombies, even. Not unless he was so wasted as to be physically unable to get the pill - and if that were the case, I'd have serious doubts about his ability to carry on coherent conversation with Mom. EVEN THEN, I'd expect a more believable Nick response to be " save it for later", NOT "give it to Griselda."

 

 

That's all true, but I took his motivation to be "make mom think I'm okay so she'll get off my back", which is also typical addict behavior.

[ghoulina]

Am I the only one who thought Liza went with the doc because they took Nick and wouldn't let Daniel go with his wife?

 

I've seen a few people say that, and I hope that's the case. But, to me, it just looked like the doctor guilted her into going, because she was more needed there than here. 

[Bongo Fury]

But what would Thomas Jefferson's zombie corpse say, you know, after he ripped your shoulder off, and tore into your face?  In a normal evacuation, no you do not shoot those who stay behind.  This is not a normal disaster response.  The dead have risen, for pete's sake.   

 

Braaaaaaains!

 

Has the constitution been suspended? Has the rule of law been over turned? Impossible, because even in a non-ZA situation our government can't agree on anything and enact it that fast. Maybe it has, but none of the dumbasses on this show bother to turn on the TV or the radio to find out information. And Lt Douchebag never even stated to the citizens that martial law has been enacted to give his orders gravitas. That asshat would have loved to flaunt that he was the undisputed boss of Safe Zone India if he had that authority, but he didn't.

 

Remember, the army moved in and started acting 9 days ago, at the very start of all this, before things really started going to crap. Do you honestly think it is realistic to suspend civil liberties at just the hint of a ZA? 

 

And for the record, there is a section of the national disaster response plan dealing with a zombie apocalypse, it's meant as a training exercise rather than being completely serious, but there is a plan. Of course not in this world, because there is no zombie lore. So maybe that explains it, since there is no plan on the books a lowly Lieutenant gets to do whatever he wants.

[morgankobi]

Sigh. What happened in the "nine days since the lights went out" was what I thought this show would be about.

 

Anyone have a guess as to why Morphine Drip Wife went away with her husband, but Daniel Salazar was not allowed to accompany his wife?

 

P.s. Not only did Madison not pick up the gun, but she left behind her bolt cutters. I know it's early and everyone is naive, so I'm trying to be patient with them, but it's... difficult.

 

I thought that MD Wife seemed easy to placate and subdue, whereas Mr. Salazar looked like he might put up a fight, if need arose, so that's why he wasn't invited. But I also agree that they may have never come back for MD wife.

 

I don't understand the theory that the large out-break hasn't happened yet. Madison went walking through LA ("Nobody walks in LA") and saw only a few dead bodies. The army seems to be executing those they find, sick or not. If the rest of the city hasn't turned, where are they? They aren't out scrounging for supplies (whether that is canned goods or human flesh)?

[ghoulina]

I don't understand the theory that the large out-break hasn't happened yet. Madison went walking through LA ("Nobody walks in LA") and saw only a few dead bodies. The army seems to be executing those they find, sick or not. If the rest of the city hasn't turned, where are they? They aren't out scrounging for supplies (whether that is canned goods or human flesh)?

 

Hunkered down? Locked inside their homes? Hoping to ride it out. It's only been 9 days. I think a lot of people might be able to hole up in their homes for that long. 

 

Plus, it seemed like this neighborhood was a bit removed from the city itself. It's possible things are worse elsewhere. 

[Omar G.]

To respectfully contradict the recap, more than a few Lou Reed songs are about using heroin. Although this one was used in Trainspotting (which I completely forgot about), that wasn't the first association that popped into my head.

 

That may be a function of my age. That movie was a huge deal when it came out and everyone I knew owned the soundtrack.  It's also been in a lot of commercials (minus the heroin association).  When I hear that song, I think of "Trainspotting" and that was a long time ago.  It just seems a little on-the-nose.  Shows like "Mr. Robot" and "Halt and Catch Fire" are much better about non-obvious musical cues, IMO.

 

Here's the Wikipedia for the song, which lists other uses/covers of the song. 

[mustbekarma]

Now that I think about it, Madison probably did know, at least subconsciously, that Nick was blowing smoke up her skirt, so to speak. She's seen him strung out, heard all the lies, but she really hoped that Nick was actually "clean and sober," because that's what Madison wants for Nick, in addition to thinking there had to be no drugs to score. I think she realized Nick was high, and that "lie" was enough for her to snap after all that she had seen and experienced outside the fence.

[maystone]

I truly don't understand why a number of posters are upset because no one is turning on the TV or radio to listen to the news. No one is broadcasting; there is no news to hear. Am I wrong in thinking this?

 

Back in the pilot, Tobias had heard about what was happening from the internet (my guess is Reddit), but no one would believe him. The information was out there, but it wasn't being relayed via the usual suspects. We also know, thanks to the WHO memorandum posted on story-sync, that world governments were aware that something bad was happening, but they chose to keep it from the public. A couple of us believed that there was an imposed news blackout on just how nightmarish this epidemic had become. Obviously the police and the military knew: They started using head shots to bring the walkers down. Also there was that LA cop that Travis had spied filling his trunk with jugs of water; he knew it was time to start stockpiling, but he wasn't making that public, either. Then the power went out.

 

Maddy mentions that there are no working cell towers or land lines. Sure some people have battery-operated radios; I do. But someone has to be able to send the information in the first place. And yes, ham radio operators are also out there. Raise your hand if you are one or have immediate access to someone who is. Word of mouth is how info would pass among the civilian population, and the civilian population is either sequestered in safe zones, dug in, running for their lives, or dead-and-turned.

 

I'm sure that there are exceptions to every point I've made, but exceptions are just that. I honestly don't see why anyone at this point would be sitting in front of a TV or radio still vainly trying to tune into something that's gone the way of the dodo.

[DEM]

I don't understand why or how the SZ India people would NOT know that civilisation has collapsed based simply on logic alone.  They are living in a random suburb with no apparent strategic value, yet they have an entire military contingent of their very own and no massive influx of refugees.  Where do they think all the people not in safe zones are?  The desert?

Edited September 22, 2015 by DEM

[tessa]

I don't think they would view the situation as "civilization collapsing."  From what they see, the military has secured their area, they have been told services will be slowly returning and they haven't really seen what is going on outside the secure zone.   

I'm sorry but I disagree - if I saw the panic, fires, gunfire, screams, traffic jams ect from my view point on the top of the hill - I would definitely think civilization was collapsing. Even if I was not allowed near the perimeter - which had not been set yet - you could hear that something was going on and sometimes that is worse than seeing something as your mind imagines all sorts of scenerios. Heck - I was at work when the Twin Towers and Pentagon were bombed - we heard it on the radio - immediately switched the waiting room TVs to the news and tried to keep abreast of what was happening. We live near Niagara Falls and the Power Plant and we were all wondering whether to shut the doors and go home to our families.

 

Even before Y2K everyone was talking and making arrangements if the internet went down - this wasn't even a real emergency as of yet - but it consumed us for weeks before New Years.

[SlovakPrincess]

OMG, Maddie - what are you thinking wandering into the DZ??? Although her beating the crap out of Nick was ... interesting.

On a shallow note ... If Nick has been in the swimming pool, why does his hair still look filthy?

Sure, Alicia. Tattoo yourself and possibly get an infection in the middle of the end of civilization. Great idea!!

The government turned evil quickly, apparently. Poor Liza --she thought she was helping.

[ParkersBunny]

The show seems to want to have it both ways.  On the one hand, we know that civilization IS collapsing, but the show wants to take its time.  There’s no shots of zombie herds, media alerts – we haven’t even seen a run on a grocery store.  On the other hand, things are so dire that civilians are being killed and martial law seems to be in place.

 

The thing that stands out to me in this episode as a glaring contradiction is when Madison left the safe zone and found the wall of pictures.  Think about what you’d need to do that – a picture of your loved one (easy), a machine that can copy, paper to print it (and both of those things take electricity) and then safe passage into the city and knowledge of where such a picture wall existed.  Life outside the Safe Zone doesn’t seem to have ANY of those things, and hasn’t for days. 

 

The one thing I do like and think is probably terribly true is the premise that not everyone is up for the ZA.  Some folks opt-out, either consciously (neighbor Susan) or unconsciously (neighbor Robert).

[KirkB]

The thing that stands out to me in this episode as a glaring contradiction is when Madison left the safe zone and found the wall of pictures.  Think about what you’d need to do that – a picture of your loved one (easy), a machine that can copy, paper to print it (and both of those things take electricity) and then safe passage into the city and knowledge of where such a picture wall existed.  Life outside the Safe Zone doesn’t seem to have ANY of those things, and hasn’t for days.

 

 

I don't necessarily see that as a contradiction. I mean, it may be, I wouldn't be surprised, but while Travis and his family have been walled up for the last nine days or so, the world was sinking into chaos before that. People most likely started disappearing prior to the power going out. That wall could have been there for a week or two before the army came in and took over.

 

I agree though, the show seems to be glossing over the stuff many viewers here at least seem to be interested in. We're being told second hand bad stuff is going down, we only get to see tidbits of it when Madison goes for a walk. Speaking of which, I wouldn't put much trust in the protection of a military force who lets someone cut their fence and wander in and out of the supposedly secure compound.

Edited September 23, 2015 by KirkB

[cynic]

Moyers (aka Lt. Exposition) said, "Sanitation, water treatment, and other services will return as we approach total containment.… So keep boiling that water."

...

Thanks editorgrrl. I missed that. I want to know more now. Do they only have water for certain parts of the day? Are they boiling water in batches and storing it in large containers? Because boiling enough water for all your needs would be kinda time consuming. And the sanitation isn't working? What are these people using for bathrooms? Are they using buckets to flush? Does that work even if the sanitation is out? These people seem pretty cavalier about all these modern conveniences being unavailable, even without the fact that it's the ZA factored in. Seems like there would be a lot to do besides painting the family room. No wonder Maddie is grumpy if she's doing everything by herself. She shouldn't be mad at Liza though, who is actually doing something worthwhile. She just make her lazy kids or jogging husband do their share.

When Travis came back from his run to no power, he shrugged it off: "Oh, they probably don't want to strain whatever's left of the grid. Don't worry, they're gonna get it sorted." Then he opened the fridge!...

Yeah, that actually made me laugh. Like, what are you looking for in there, Travis? It's not like things are keeping after nine days of intermittent electricity. And even if they were, they wouldn't keep much longer with you opening the door all willy nilly just to look.

It also made me want to smack these people when the power came on and all the kitchen lights went on too. It was broad daylight! Maybe you could turn off a light or two if you're so worried about taxing the grid. What am I thinking? These are the same people who throw one bath towel in the dryer and then use it to wipe the sweat off their face. Try a washcloth or handkerchief Maddie!

[bunnywithanaxe]

That's what it looked like, but I'm not from there either. Because I'm home today with sick kids and bored, I've been trying to figure out the line about the neighborhood being one of 12 safe areas south of the San Gabriels and how big an area we're talking about in relation to the LA area as a whole. Yes, I'm that bored.

Northern Californiana here, but there are a lot of cities built on hills all over the state. The proximity made sense to me.

First of all, I am assuming that it is a hill we are looking at, not necessarily part of a mountain range. Second, the house we are looking at, while appearing to be an ornate Mediterranean style mansion (and no doubt costs as much as one would) is probably more a modest sized two-three bedroom house in a upper-middle neighborhood. I am going by the apparent size of the living room window.

Looking out my window, I see houses of that general apparent size that are less than a quarter of a mile away. Having said that, dips in the horizon between the viewer and the hill can make things look a little closer than they are.

Edited September 23, 2015 by bunnywithanaxe

[queenanne]

A couple of other things that caught my attention. This supposed contained community is occupied by the military who I would think would have guard rotations around the perimeter - you mean to tell me - no military saw the Morse code?

 

I think the military did see the Morse code (even if it was ersatz Morse), and that's why the holdouts are dead.  I also believe Lieutenant Asshat didn't take Travis or Chris seriously, it's not like he saw the video (?).  I think the flashes are what did them in, largely because it's more poignant that way.

 

Also thinking that Liza followed because of Nick, not that I think we know it's because of Nick, or were shown it, but because that's good and likely writing.  We'll like Liza better for bonding with Madison's kid and sticking her neck out for him, and well, it's just an interesting character dynamic and tradeoff.  The payoff will happen when they interact; you weren't supposed to get it up front.  Rather, up front it was supposed to be an attempt at a misdirect.

 

Also, can some body fill me in if we know what is mysteriously up with Liza's medical credentials?  Dr. Sandrine Holt didn't seem to believe she had a scrap of nursing training.  Is Liza actually an aide?  Disbarred doctor?

[natyxg]

Also, can some body fill me in if we know what is mysteriously up with Liza's medical credentials?  Dr. Sandrine Holt didn't seem to believe she had a scrap of nursing training.  Is Liza actually an aide?  Disbarred doctor?

 

I don't remember if they have formally explained, but I got the impression that she was studying to be a nurse or a doctor and dropped out when she had Chris or for some other reason. She clearly has some training.

[phoenix780]

Fear the Walking Dead story sync provides extra information. Here is where you can see the locations of the Safe Zones. Our little group is in the "India SZ" which appears to have approximately 4,000 residents. http://images.sync.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/FTWD-104-SS-06-0vjdk-0f-39g4.pdf

Here is the link where you can go to all the story syncs. http://www.amc.com/shows/fear-the-walking-dead/story-sync

It is moving a bit slowly, but is in a relative safe "for now" area. I think that we'll see that, unless confronted by herds of walkers, other humans are the biggest threat. I'll keep watching.

 

Bit of a rant, but I hate the concept of "story sync."  Even with a great show I'm skeptical of the whole concept, but with this...why the hell should I have to go seek out what I'd need to know to get a full story? 

 

I'm also not sure that, um, syncs with what they showed.  I didn't get a sense that the camp was anywhere near large enough to hold 4k people, which I think they could have done during the opening when Travis was jogging through the neighborhood.  I may have missed it, though, and it may just have felt smaller because they emphasized the boundary with Madison's neighborhood stroll and the kid with the camera.  I also may have placed more emphasis on that one line about how everything outside of the fence was dead.

 

Still, I'm not super into going online for extra content to sort it all out.  

 

On the subject of Nick, I'm choosing to believe they took him because they somehow know he took a needle from a sick person and stuck it in himself, unless he found a clean needle for using the morphine drip.  They military is treating it like a virus, sort of, they'd have to quarantine him.  I'm also OK with his wardrobe, because it has a hipster feel that seems right for the area, based on my experience.  I didn't even notice it as something unusual, to be honest.

[ACW]

 These people seem pretty cavalier about all these modern conveniences being unavailable, even without the fact that it's the ZA factored in. Seems like there would be a lot to do besides painting the family room. No wonder Maddie is grumpy if she's doing everything by herself. She shouldn't be mad at Liza though, who is actually doing something worthwhile. She just make her lazy kids or jogging husband do their share.

 

I'm really not getting the Madison hate.  She explicitly *didn't* blame Liza in the argument with Travis about housework; she blamed *him*. which was totally appropriate.

 

Regarding the Evil Military:  Yes, it's mostly sloppy writing, but:

   A: It would be odd if the President/governor/etc. *hadn't* declared martial law by day 2 or 3 of the freaking dead rising to eat the living, much less day 9 of general power failure;

   B: The commanders, at least, probably *do* know how bad everything is, and how much worse it's likely to get, so I can believe them acting on a combination of "ends justify the means" and "save yourself, your troops, and anyone else you can reasonably save, in that order, by any means necessary."

[Nashville]

Also, can some body fill me in if we know what is mysteriously up with Liza's medical credentials?  Dr. Sandrine Holt didn't seem to believe she had a scrap of nursing training.  Is Liza actually an aide?  Disbarred doctor?

 

Liza is studying to become a nurse; she had not yet attained any level of formal accreditation, however, before everything figuratively went into the bedpan.

[Anela]

I think they'll be finding out a lot in the final episode. When Rick wakes up in the pilot of Walking Dead - spoiler, just in case -

he saw that the military had been overrun, and there didn't seem to be another soul alive.

I think we might see that happening in the finale. 

[natyxg]

I think they'll be finding out a lot in the final episode. When Rick wakes up in the pilot of Walking Dead - spoiler, just in case -

he saw that the military had been overrun, and there didn't seem to be another soul alive.

I think we might see that happening in the finale. 

 

What, exactly? Rick is in another state.

[BetyBee]

When I first saw Nick under Hector's bed, I thought it was a woman, possibly a walker.  Same thing happened in the odd opening scene of the first episode.  It didn't help that he followed up in that first episode doing that weird run thing while wearing a woman's shrug.  I just think he's an odd protagonist.  I assume he's going to adapt quickly to the situation once he gets the monkey off his back, but I don't find anything appealing about him.  I hope I'm wrong.  From what I read, he is doing a good job acting the part of a junkie.  I guess I just don't like any of the Clarks.  

[JackONeill]

See, I think the "nine days" is misleading. I think it's been going on longer. Remember the first (maybe second) episode when we saw the cop loading all the ice. (And he looked like he knew -- in a way -- what was going on.)  We also heard some reports of chaos, and we saw some chaos early on (early being relative when you're talking about 9 days).

 

I think the government -- all the way down to some police departments knows "this here shit is bad" -- yet the normal population seems (largely) oblivious. Now, we all know that we are an untrustworthy society. There's social media but there's also word-of-mouth. There's the nut who stands around in the park warning about the end of the world. There are many more people than that pimply kid who always seem to know "something."

 

There's always anxiety in society when it feels like it's in the dark. Yet, I feel very little of that. Is that just a plot contrivance? Once again, in the original Night of the Living Dead (yes, I know we don't "know" about it), people wanted to listen to the TV. And there were reports on TV and the radio. They wanted to find out what the hell was going on. It's a natural instinct and reaction, yet our people seem to have no INSTINCTS (except for Reuben).

 

Our group is totally CLUELESS. Like I said earlier: idiots. They really don't deserve to live.

[Bongo Fury]

Bit of a rant, but I hate the concept of "story sync."  Even with a great show I'm skeptical of the whole concept, but with this...why the hell should I have to go seek out what I'd need to know to get a full story? 

 

I'm also not sure that, um, syncs with what they showed.  I didn't get a sense that the camp was anywhere near large enough to hold 4k people, ...

 

On second viewing, the dickhead military commander was a Lieutenant. A lieutenant usually commands a platoon (about 60 soldiers), occasionally they will command a company (roughly 200 soldiers). If they've only got 200 people defending the 4k people in ISZ, when the walkers show up ISZ is going to fall quickly. And it explains why the surveillance of the perimeter fence is so lax and Madison could so easily sneak out, they are woefully under staffed.

 

And I agree, having to go to another source to get information key to the story is bullshit. But it's not about telling a good story any more, it's all about drawing as many clicks/visits to a website.

[editorgrrl]

See, I think the "nine days" is misleading. I think it's been going on longer. Remember the first (maybe second) episode when we saw the cop loading all the ice. (And he looked like he knew -- in a way -- what was going on.) We also heard some reports of chaos, and we saw some chaos early on (early being relative when you're talking about 9 days).

Chris said, "People outside the fence—they took the last of them four days ago. People just like us—run like cattle, piled into trucks, one suitcase apiece. Headed east—at least that's the rumor. Bakersfield, Vegas—who knows?"

Where did the trucks take everyone? The same place Griselda, Nick, and Liza are headed? And I agree with many upthread—it was a mistake not to have shown those five days.

[ghoulina]

Also, can some body fill me in if we know what is mysteriously up with Liza's medical credentials?  Dr. Sandrine Holt didn't seem to believe she had a scrap of nursing training.  Is Liza actually an aide?  Disbarred doctor?

 

She was shown in an earlier episode with a book, "Nursing for Dummies" maybe? I believe she was in nursing school before the outbreak, so she probably had enough skills to help people out to some degree. But when the doc showed on the scene she knew she wasn't a real nurse yet. 

[NurseGiGi]

Okay, I have not seen this addressed yet but if someone has I apologize.  Where in the hell did not nurse Liza get a morphine drip?  She said she didn't have nitrates to treat his congestive heart failure so she used a morphine drip.  That's not something you just find hanging in your bedroom closet.  Plus, even if she did find one hiding under the bed being a not nurse she would have no clue as to how to titrate it.

 

Yes, I know, plot device so we could see Nick stealing it.  Still, that's a pretty big hole right there.

[tessa]

On the suppose evacuation - this article shows how tough it would be to move this many people - and now we know they moved them in 5 days not 9 per Chris's opening statements.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/11/weekinreview/planning-the-impossible-new-yorks-evacuation.html?_r=0

 

As far as to where the hoards are - someone above mentioned the sewer system. I don't think the walker's have that kind of intelligence or instincts - right now - they just want to eat.

 

An as far as the media - there was phone service and electricity for quite a long time - they still had it during the riot - which I'm sure would have been covered by the media. We saw the first risen dead on TV - the media would have been all over that. Govt and police may not have released information - but the media - TV, Radio and Internet would be abuzz with stories - people's accts ect..

 

People are gawkers. We're curious. You see an accident - you look, you hear special breaking news - you stop and tune in. People sat for days while they freed little Jessica from the well, we tuned in to see a white bronco racing on an LA freeway, I was glued to the TV after 911. The fact there is no interest in what is going on is not believable. Even if all communication was suspended - people would be talking - what if's, I heard ect..... and these people aren't.

 

20 yrs ago - the writers may have gotten by with this - but today's society is more invested, we were promised answers to some of the questions - This actually reminds me of my disappointment of the final episode after watching LOST all those years.

[queenanne]

She was shown in an earlier episode with a book, "Nursing for Dummies" maybe? I believe she was in nursing school before the outbreak, so she probably had enough skills to help people out to some degree. But when the doc showed on the scene she knew she wasn't a real nurse yet. 

 

Yes, and/but that's the part I'm wondering most about - why did Dr. Sandrine Holt apply that (to me) heaping helping of inference, that if she rats out Liza and says Liza isn't a nurse, bad things are going to happen?  Thus making Liza want to go with her in the first place?  I thought there was a lot more menace in Sandrine's statement, than was deserved by the outcome.  "People are going to know you're... NOT A REAL NURSE, Liza!!!"  I mean, who cares??  Liza's not all of a sudden going to seem like she in fact knows "less than" most doctors, just because she lacks credentials.  Her palliative and, in some cases full-on, medical care is working.  Who gives a flip in this doomsday scenario if she's got a degree?

[editorgrrl]

Where in the hell did not nurse Liza get a morphine drip? She said she didn't have nitrates to treat his congestive heart failure so she used a morphine drip. That's not something you just find hanging in your bedroom closet.

Liza said she had to "salvage it" from another neighbor. (Dr. Exner had already spoken to at least four other patients of Liza's.)

To me, the bigger plothole was why those sick people were allowed to stay for nine days. Was Hector restrained?

Edited September 23, 2015 by editorgrrl

[NurseGiGi]

Liza said she had to "salvage it" from another neighbor. (Dr. Exner had already spoken to at least four other patients of Liza's.)

To me, the bigger plothole was why those sick people were allowed to stay for nine days. Was Hector restrained?

She "salvaged" a morphine drip?  Uh huh.  Ah well, it's times like this that I wish I wasn't in the medical profession so I wouldn't be scrutinizing every little detail of everything that was wrong in that whole medical scenario.

 

And I'm wondering why in the hell they have so many sick ass people in that neighborhood.  I mean, they're shooting healthy people, why would they bring sick people into the safe zone?

 

Okay, I'll just make like Frozen and let it go!

[txhorns79]

Liza's not all of a sudden going to seem like she in fact knows "less than" most doctors, just because she lacks credentials.  Her palliative and, in some cases full-on, medical care is working.  Who gives a flip in this doomsday scenario if she's got a degree?

 

I think even in a doomsday scenario, you'd probably be wary of someone who claimed to be a nurse, but didn't have the actual training.  Her efforts might be successful for the moment, but she might easily end up accidentally killing someone because she doesn't have the appropriate training to know what she is doing. 

[Bongo Fury]

... And I'm wondering why in the hell they have so many sick ass people in that neighborhood.  I mean, they're shooting healthy people, why would they bring sick people into the safe zone? ...

 

They didn't bring Hector in, he lived in the neighborhood. At least long enough for his wife to plant a garden and harvest squash for her soup.

 

I question if they brought anyone in from outside the neighborhood. It doesn't look crowded. No one moved into Susan and Patrick's house. If there was a big influx of people from outside the neighborhood the meeting with Lt Douchbag would have had more people, and every house would be filled with a many people as could fit. From what we have been given, it seems that the neighborhood was sealed off and everyone outside the neighborhood was trucked off or murdered.

[ChipBach]

I suppose that this is happening in 2008?  2010?  Isn't that when Rick went down?

[JackONeill]

I question if they brought anyone in from outside the neighborhood. It doesn't look crowded. No one moved into Susan and Patrick's house. If there was a big influx of people from outside the neighborhood the meeting with Lt Douchbag would have had more people, and every house would be filled with a many people as could fit. From what we have been given, it seems that the neighborhood was sealed off and everyone outside the neighborhood was trucked off or murdered.

 

I thought I saw a scene (was it when Maddie was heading towards the fence to get out?) that showed one of those tanks.armored cars pulling into the neighborhood, and I thought it was coming through a fence. Behind it were 5-6 people. I thought they'd been "rescued" or found outside the gate. But why then did the people with the flashing light get killed? (we assume) And if they find you outside the gate, how do they know you're well? And what's "well" mean nowadays?

[Bongo Fury]

I thought I saw a scene (was it when Maddie was heading towards the fence to get out?) that showed one of those tanks.armored cars pulling into the neighborhood, and I thought it was coming through a fence. Behind it were 5-6 people. I thought they'd been "rescued" or found outside the gate. 

 

I'm home sick today, with nothing better to do, so I scanned through the episode. In the beginning there is a Hummer with a MG coming through the gate leading a supply truck with the daily meal, no people following. When Maddie is making her escape we see another Hummer w/ MG on patrol inside the safe zone, no one with it. When Maddie is outside a H w/ MG comes over the rise leading a squad of soldiers on patrol, no civilians with them. 

 

Incidentally, the fence surrounding the neighborhood was already there pre-ZA. When Maddie is escaping we see vines growing all over the fence, no way that happened in 9 days. So maybe that explains why this neighborhood was selected for a Safe Zone, it was already partially/mostly fenced off.

[JackONeill]

Thanks Bongo Fury. I don't know how I thought I saw what I thought I saw. (Must have been getting bored and started rewriting the script.)

[Dobian]

Exactly. Where are the walkers who would be roaming all over the city searching for food? The military could not possibly have given them all a head shot. The walkers would be attracted to the noise in that community if it really is the only one nearby. This show never misses the opportunity to miss an opportunity. What is the point of setting this show in LA, if they were not going to use the terror of being trapped with walkers all around in an urban environment? All this talk about the family drama is an excuse making for bad entertainment with the lack of walkers, maybe they have a tiny budget.

 

I actually liked this episode a lot more than the others.  It's interesting to see how the military moves in and takes over.  My take on it is that the actual number of walkers was extremely small.  What happened was the general panic, with people getting killed in the mayhem, followed by police and national guard moving in, then the military, resulting in more people getting killed.  Really, the vast majority of the killing has been done by humans, not walkers.  But after so many days have passed, you would expect dead people to start rising up, especially if they weren't properly killed.  And that doesn't explain how millions were killed so quickly.  There's no way you can possibly kill that many people sending in some ground forces, you need bombs, lots of them.  Like massive airstrikes.  Let's be real, you'd need a nuke to clear out that many people so fast.  So seeing L.A. instantly empty except for these apparently dozen enclaves of a few thousand people each really stretches the disbelief.

[ChipBach]

I actually liked this episode a lot more than the others.  It's interesting to see how the military moves in and takes over.  My take on it is that the actual number of walkers was extremely small.  What happened was the general panic, with people getting killed in the mayhem, followed by police and national guard moving in, then the military, resulting in more people getting killed.  Really, the vast majority of the killing has been done by humans, not walkers.  But after so many days have passed, you would expect dead people to start rising up, especially if they weren't properly killed.  And that doesn't explain how millions were killed so quickly.  There's no way you can possibly kill that many people sending in some ground forces, you need bombs, lots of them.  Like massive airstrikes.  Let's be real, you'd need a nuke to clear out that many people so fast.  So seeing L.A. instantly empty except for these apparently dozen enclaves of a few thousand people each really stretches the disbelief.

I agree except, if we were going to "wash away" the whole take over of Los Angeles, I wished they would have made it 2 months, not 9 days.  If we could completely close down a 10 million person city in 9 days the whole Iraq conflict would have been about 15 days long...

[maystone]

Thanks Bongo Fury. I don't know how I thought I saw what I thought I saw. (Must have been getting bored and started rewriting the script.)

 

I thought I saw it, too. I remember it being shown during Chris's voice over in the beginning. The vehicle was coming through the gate and there were a handful of people following it carrying open boxes with stuff in them. I assumed from Chris's narration that they were bringing in food supplies of some kind. It looked strange, but then I couldn't really follow what Chris was saying, either. Shared hallucinations on FTWD forum!

[JLG]

Hasn't anyone else here ever read The Zombie Survival Guide, by  Max Brooks?  Of course Travis should jog.  It's the one correct thing he's doing.  Otherwise, his attitude and approach are useless.  The barber is the best asset these people currently have. 

 

I'm not a consistent watcher of TWD,  because I just can't really get into it; but what's going on in this show does make sense this early on.

 

No fan of Madison, because I hated her on Sons of Anarchy, but at least she is questioning things, and starting to act in a practical manner. 

 

I seriously hope we see Tobias again; but not as a walker.

 

 

[DEM]

Thanks Bongo Fury. I don't know how I thought I saw what I thought I saw. (Must have been getting bored and started rewriting the script.)

You were not wrong. There were people following behind the Army guys.  However, the editing made it unclear where those people came from. Chris said "feeding time in the zoo." The people seemed to be carrying empty containers. My best guess is that those people were from inside the zone, and they were coming to the central distribution spot.

[Nashville]

Let's be real, you'd need a nuke to clear out that many people so fast.  So seeing L.A. instantly empty except for these apparently dozen enclaves of a few thousand people each really stretches the disbelief.

Considering most disaster contingency planning models for L.A. estimate the time required for total evacuation of the City and immediately-surrounding areas at something in the neighborhood of two weeks from initiation of evacuation, I would tend to agree.

In fact, I don't think it could have been done - or WOULD have been done, if (as we had been previously seeing) there were only a few odd cases of zombieism popping up here and there. Which leads me to consider an alternate possibility: what if our ASS* is not actually in a Safe Zone, but instead is in a quarantine area? This would explain:

• Clearing a population-free swath around the quarantine area - in effect, creating a no-man's-land around the QA. Heck - if you told the locals you were quarantining a bunch of folks to see if any might turn crazy cannibal, many would probably bug out of their own volition.
• The street slaughters could be prospective QA internees who resisted relocation, or killed as suspected escapees from the QA.
• The communications cut-off. If you're telling the QA internees they're in a Safe Zone to keep them pacified and acquiescent, you don't want real-world info spoiling the shit sandwich you're feeding them.
• The fences - better suited for keeping walkers out, or keeping normal humans in?

And so forth. So while ASS sits and waits for a rescue which will never come, the rest of the world goes along its merry way.

...that is, until the number of brain-biters reaches a critical mass relative to the surrounding population, and isolated hot spots of occurrence grow to become a full-fledged infection wildfire.

Waddaya think? :)

* ASS = After School Special - my nominated term for FTWD's version of CDB. :)