NFL Thread

[topanga]

 

In hindsight, the Cowboys probably should have scrapped the season, let Romo heal and come out firing next year.

 

Aaaaaaand THAT'S why you don't play your fragile franchise QB when your season is already lost.

And that's also why you need to keep drafting quarterbacks (at least one good back up to Romo), even though Tony is your franchise QB. Seriously, the horrible back ups the Cowboys sign year after year might be one of the reasons they brought Romo back so quickly. Except for Kitna. He came out of retirement a couple of years ago and played a great playoff game. All except for that last crucial interception. 

[Ohwell]

OK, enough is enough.  Cam just needs to stop that fucking dancing.

[topanga]

Cam defies racist stereotyping. Not all black people can dance.

[BitterApple]

Regarding Manziel, I think he's trying to pull an Office Space by deliberately screwing up at his job so he can be let go. Granted, nobody wants to play in Cleveland, but he's been over it since training camp. Maybe he'll end up in Dallas. Jerry Jones has a fondness for disfunctional brats.

[Mountainair]

I mean yea, I'm biased but.........

I don't see the big deal about Cam's dancing or the supposed "cockiness" of the Panthers. Like Cam said, you don't like his dancing, keep him out of the end zone. I've seen a lot worse dancing from players that don't play anywhere near his caliber.

The Panthers have gone from the worse team in the NFL, not even worth being discussed by the talking heads to where they are now in a short amount of time and a lot of hard work. They aren't like the Patriots, Pats, Giants, Steelers, etc. who everyone assumes is playoff material before they even step foot on the field. If they want to celebrate a little I say it is well deserved.

[xaxat]

Manziel had one of only 32 jobs in the world as starting NFL quarterback. If he truly believes that bad behavior could be leveraged into a better situation, he's an even bigger knucklehead than I had guessed.

[merylinkid]

Romo's hurt.   The draft card with Manziel's name on it had to be literally ripped out of Jerry Jones' hands.   I can see Manziel thinking he had a back up place to go if he could get out Cleveland.

 

Or he's a moron who just knee jerks lies to cover up his repeated mistakes.

[Rick Kitchen]

So the Cowboys don't have a backup to Cassel, right?

[ganesh]

Or he's a moron who just knee jerks lies to cover up his repeated mistakes.

 

Or he's a young 20 something kid doing dumb stuff. I'm not excusing him, but it seems like the league thinks these kids can step in with the maturity of 10 year veterans. Some just can't handle it. Some have other problems going on. If the game is so mentally tough, as everyone claims, well, not everyone can handle it right off the bat. I get that the team expects a return on their investment, but they either should have done more homework ahead of time, or really consider what resources someone like Manziel needs to succeed.

But, as the case with the Cowboys show, the teams don't care about players much as people and really more as commodities. I highly doubt a truly independent doctor would say Romo would have been fit to play and should sit for the season. 

[DrSpaceman73]

Its hard in a salary cap era to have a good back up that can keep a team in contention if the starter gets hurt. I don't fault the Cowboys for that.

There are a handful of teams that can manage with the back up for short periods of time. Carolina last year won 2 or 3 with Derek Anderson. Pitt over the years have managed for short stretches without Roethlisberger. Colts this year have been OK with Hasselback, but has more to do with subpar competition in games he has played and a poor division that allows a .500 team to be at the time. in 2011 the team fell apart without Manning. Pats could manage I think just because BB can find a way to work with the loss of any single player, even at QB. He did so for one season without Brady.

Most though if they are out more than 4 games, you are playing for next season. Its just too important a position and even to find a solid starter is hard, let alone finding a good back up. There just aren't enough good quality QBs to go around for 32 teams to expect most to be successful with a back up

Edited November 27, 2015 by DrSpaceman73

[Ohwell]

I mean yea, I'm biased but.........

I don't see the big deal about Cam's dancing or the supposed "cockiness" of the Panthers. Like Cam said, you don't like his dancing, keep him out of the end zone. I've seen a lot worse dancing from players that don't play anywhere near his caliber.

The Panthers have gone from the worse team in the NFL, not even worth being discussed by the talking heads to where they are now in a short amount of time and a lot of hard work. They aren't like the Patriots, Pats, Giants, Steelers, etc. who everyone assumes is playoff material before they even step foot on the field. If they want to celebrate a little I say it is well deserved.

Somebody had a quote that basically went like "Act like you've been there before."  Clearly, Cam doesn't heed that advice.  He looks like an idiot when he dances, IMO.  

 

But other than that, I like Cam and since I don't have a horse in the race because my team stinks, I wouldn't mind at all if the Panthers won it all, especially if they beat the Patriots.  

[ganesh]

"Act like you're been there before" is what people say who haven't been there much. It's patently absurd. 

 

Why do you have to act like you've been there before? Why can't you be excited to be there again? People are excited when they hit home runs or get a big strikeout, or hit a big shot. Messi has scored about a million goals and acts like a 5 y/o on xmas when he scores the next one. As long as you're not up in the other player's face and don't take 10 minutes, who cares? Fast forward through it.

Newton may look stupid and he may make people roll their eyes. So, he won't dance if you stop him from scoring. What's the big deal with Newton anyway? Gronk celebrates when he scores too. So, should the Packers players not leap into the stands too?

[Moose135]

Nice of Brett Favre to doll up for the occasion.  All he needed was the shopping cart to look completely homeless.

I missed the on-field part, but saw him when he went up to the booth, and was thinking the same thing!

[Dejana]

Look up the Manziel family: very generously, it's a long line of colorful characters, and less charitably... Maybe it's hard to truly grasp how bad your behavior seems to your bosses or the outside world when you're not even among the Top 5 biggest hot mess trainwrecks in your own family.

[Rick Kitchen]

 

"Act like you're been there before" is what people say who haven't been there much. It's patently absurd.

 

Try telling that to Jerry Rice, who said it originally.

[Ohwell]

It also doesn't help that Cam wears that back brace which makes him look bulky and uncomfortable when he's "dancing."  

[Jx223]

So the Cowboys don't have a backup to Cassel, right?

 

I don't believe they have gotten anyone yet. I am interested in seeing who they go get. It may be time to go get Ryan Mallett. He can't be any less effective than Weeden was. Ryan could hold down the backup position for them a bit, possibly until Jerry goes gets Johnny or draft a QB to develop.

 

Or he's a young 20 something kid doing dumb stuff. I'm not excusing him, but it seems like the league thinks these kids can step in with the maturity of 10 year veterans.... I get that the team expects a return on their investment, but they either should have done more homework ahead of time, or really consider what resources someone like Manziel needs to succeed.

 

 

ITA with this statement.

 

Its hard in a salary cap era to have a good back up that can keep a team in contention if the starter gets hurt. I don't fault the Cowboys for that....

Most though if they are out more than 4 games, you are playing for next season. Its just too important a position and even to find a solid starter is hard, let alone finding a good back up. There just aren't enough good quality QBs to go around for 32 teams to expect most to be successful with a back up

You bring up good points regarding the backup situation in the NFL, Dr. Spaceman. I was reading an article the other day that was talking about how much this year's crop of backups have been underperforming. This article was written like a week ago. During this time the article mentioned that only couple of backups had winning records (Matt Hassellbeck and Michael Vick) It also mentioned that the backups record for winning games was 6-17 and they had thrown 19 touchdowns to 18 interceptions.

 

There really is a lack of good quality QB's in the league, at both the starter and backup positions. That's why you see certain QB's continue to get work even when they really haven't done anything to help their previous team (like Brandon Weeden).

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000583513/article/week-11-lookahead-widespread-qb-injuries-have-shaped-2015

Edited November 27, 2015 by Jx223

[ganesh]

Try telling that to Jerry Rice, who said it originally.

 

Ok, I'll do that. I really don't have a problem discussing the issue. However, I'd point out this:

 

Seems like a bit of a celebration, and I'd refer to my prior post about it. He's not showing anyone up. He's excited, nbd. I don't really see what the big deal is. If he's being excessive then he should be fined or penalized, but he's not. 

 

[FuriousStyles]

I mean yea, I'm biased but.........

I don't see the big deal about Cam's dancing or the supposed "cockiness" of the Panthers. Like Cam said, you don't like his dancing, keep him out of the end zone. I've seen a lot worse dancing from players that don't play anywhere near his caliber.

The Panthers have gone from the worse team in the NFL, not even worth being discussed by the talking heads to where they are now in a short amount of time and a lot of hard work. They aren't like the Patriots, Pats, Giants, Steelers, etc. who everyone assumes is playoff material before they even step foot on the field. If they want to celebrate a little I say it is well deserved.

I have no rooting interest here, and I too dont see what the big deal is about the dancing, nor do I see anybody being cocky. From what ive heard coming out of that lockerroom, they're saying all the right things...they are enjoying the great start, but know there is still a lot more work to be done. There is nothing about the Panthers attitude that I havent seen many times before. If anything, all the media attention and silly letters from fans complaining probably had them feeling a little defensive and defiant so now they're gonna go out of their way to up the antics. But that "us against the world" mentality is par for the course. I personally love that Cam and the other offensive players give the touchdown balls to kids in the stands. That's cute, but conveniently something people want to ignore, since *that* part of the celebration doesnt jive with the whole "selfish cocky" narrative they're trying to paint.

[merylinkid]

It should be pointed out that the person who originally complained about Cam's dancing, not here, but in real life, was a Titan's fan.   Hmmmmmm.   Oh and she said she diverted her son's attention from Cam's dancing to .... the cheerleaders.    because scantily clad women gyrating is so much less distracting from the purity of the game than Cam enjoying getting a touchdown.   

 

I think he looks silly dancing, but in a good way.   I LIKED most of the TD celebrations before they made it the No Fun League.    Except for Joe Horne trying to call his kids from the end zone and they didn't answer.   That was just dumb, and the 'Aints were losing.  If you team is a in huge hole, you don't act like you won the Super Bowl when you get in the end zone.   Other than that, have fun out there.   

[ganesh]

I don't see what Newton is doing is any worse than the Ickey shuffle way back in the day. 

[cattykit]

I don't see what Newton is doing is any worse than the Ickey shuffle way back in the day. 

I hated the Ickey shuffle back in the day.  I'm old and old-fashioned.  Just play the damn game.

[DrSpaceman73]

I don't care if players dance when scoring. As long as its not a meaningless TD. If you are down by 5 TDs and you score, you don't need to dance.

It ads some flavor to the game.

[ganesh]

Players have been celebrating big plays in sports since sports were invented. If it's engendering so much hate, I don't think that's on them. 

[Danny Franks]

I don't like all the dancing and posing and preening that NFL players do. Not when they score a TD, not when they get a sack, and definitely not when they make a catch or a tackle. Get over it, guys. It's your job to do that stuff, I don't celebrate when I do my job right. I've always really liked guys like Anquan Boldin, who don't celebrate TDs, but just hand the ball off to someone in the crowd and head back to the sideline.

 

Having said that, making a fuss about Cam's dancing the way so many have is incredibly disingenuous, when 99% of guys already dance and it's ignored, or even encouraged. Hell, the NFL Network had a segment called Dancing With The Starters, where they would rank the best dances of each week! Jacoby Jones parlayed his TD dances into a spot on Dancing With The Stars, after the Ravens won the Super Bowl. Why was no one outraged then?

[Ohwell]

Nevermind. 

Edited November 28, 2015 by Ohwell

[yourpointis]

This season is crazy as far as losers vs winners of each division. In years past it was always a foregone conclusion that the audience had a 90% chance of figuring out who the winner of each match up would be prior to the initial kickoff. This season, not so much. There are teams beating teams they shouldn't (or not expected to beat), and teams losing to teams that they should blow out score wise. For the 2015-2016 season, I wouldn't be willing to bet that water is wet. I'm rather enjoying the unpredictableness of this season, but next season I would like to see a bit more competitiveness within each division, and not team X could win their division with an 8-8 record. 

[ganesh]

It's weird because favorites against the number are winning at about the same probability, and upsets are similarly the same. Overall home record is down though. Week to week isn't predictable, but overall the statistics are consistent.

[Snowprince]

I hated the Ickey shuffle back in the day.  I'm old and old-fashioned.  Just play the damn game.

 

The Shuffle wasn't nearly as bad as Mark Gastineau's "Sack Dance". It wasn't just confined to sacks. If he made a tackle, he danced. I can still hear my old HS coach now..."You made a tackle, whoopee shit! Wanna show the world what a badass you are....go do it again!"

[merylinkid]

The Bills bus broke down on the way to Arrowhead from the team hotel.    Apparently the driver had not realized his check engine light had been on for 2 months.   My first thought "Kinda like the team itself under Rex Ryan."   

 

When is the NFL going to stop recycling the Ryan brothers in coaching jobs?   For years, the official line was they were being held back because of their dad's reputation.   Now they've been given chance after chance after chance.   Maybe they are just not that good and it has nothing to do with their dad.

[Ohwell]

I could be wrong, but I just haven't seen many QBs celebrating in the end zone.  Granted, not many of them get in the end zone but I always thought they were somewhat more reserved when they scored.  The only other recent one I can think of is Kaepernick kissing his bicep.  

[Danny Franks]

The Bills bus broke down on the way to Arrowhead from the team hotel.    Apparently the driver had not realized his check engine light had been on for 2 months.   My first thought "Kinda like the team itself under Rex Ryan."   

 

When is the NFL going to stop recycling the Ryan brothers in coaching jobs?   For years, the official line was they were being held back because of their dad's reputation.   Now they've been given chance after chance after chance.   Maybe they are just not that good and it has nothing to do with their dad.

 

I think Rex is a pretty good coach. Defensively, he's very smart, and as a coordinator there aren't a whole lot who were better. As a head coach, he definitely has his strengths, and gets his players motivated. But it seems like he has an aversion to good offense, no matter who he hires or what players he has on the roster.

 

I could be wrong, but I just haven't seen many QBs celebrating in the end zone.  Granted, not many of them get in the end zone but I always thought they were somewhat more reserved when they scored.  The only other recent one I can think of is Kaepernick kissing his bicep.

 

 

Depends how you define celebration, really. Cam used to do the superman shirt reveal, and Aaron Rodgers does that discount double check belt thing. I've seen Joe Flacco spike the ball like the goober he is, after scoring a rushing TD. But I can't think of any that dance.

[xaxat]

I think Rex is a pretty good coach. Defensively, he's very smart, and as a coordinator there aren't a whole lot who were better. As a head coach, he definitely has his strengths, and gets his players motivated. But it seems like he has an aversion to good offense, no matter who he hires or what players he has on the roster.

 

It's in the genes.

[Ohwell]

Depends how you define celebration, really. Cam used to do the superman shirt reveal, and Aaron Rodgers does that discount double check belt thing. I've seen Joe Flacco spike the ball like the goober he is, after scoring a rushing TD. But I can't think of any that dance.

 

Yeah, I forgot about Aaron Rodgers, but usually when a QB scores you don't see them celebrating ("dancing").  Maybe Tebowing, but that's about it.

[merylinkid]

Rodgers does it when he throws the ball to the guy who scores.   He doesn't even save it for when he scores himself.   At least Cam is celebrating a TD he actually scored.   Sure Rodgers throws the ball to the guy, but the guy has to catch it and get (or already have managed to get ) into the end zone.

[mojoween]

Football sucks. Why am I watching this dreck?

[Rick Kitchen]

What the hell are the 49ers wearing?  All black?

[DrSpaceman73]

The Packers do the Lambeau Leap after every single score. ANd I am fine with that, I like it. I fail to see how its much different than Cam dancing, other than just "tradition"

Cam also gives the TD ball away to kids in the stands quite a bit as well, and not just at home. Will do it on the road to Panthers fans he sees there in end zone seats. Its a nice gesture and good PR for the league and the team. If he wants to dance, let him.

[FuriousStyles]

I should have known the Giants were gonna stink up the joint today. They never seem to take advantage of prime opportunities. They could have put this division in a chokehold by beating Washington, after the cowboys and eagles lost on thursday...and they cant even score. I went from being hopeful for a win to hoping they dont get blanked in the game. Smh.

[twoods]

Damn Bills- had their chance but looks like another year without a playoff game.

Marriota is one fine looking guy. I don't remember him looking this good when he played for Oregon. I see him having the same career as Cam has- be okay for a bad team and turn it around in a few years.

Washington is leading their division? The NFC east stinks.

[Ohwell]

Washington is leading their division? The NFC east stinks.

 

I'm a Redskins fan and even I think it's a joke.

[merylinkid]

I would like to point out that the Cowboys are only 2 games out of first in the division.   

 

Forget 7-9, I think 6-10 may take the NFC East this year.   Combined with how bad the AFC South is, they may FINALLY do something about winning the divsion means automatic playoff berth.   Yeah winning the division should mean something, but so should beating someone outside your division.

[ganesh]

Was it Madden who always said you shouldn't make the playoffs if your overall record is below .500?

[mojoween]

Is Jim Nantz on tranquilizers or does he just hate Seattle? I mean Pitt was just driving and Ben threw a pick in the end zone and he announced it the same way I imagine he says "I'll take my eggs scrambled."

[stealinghome]

The moment Tomlin decided to kick the FG from the 3-yard line, down 5 with 3 minutes left, I called that the Seahawks would win. That was gut-check time and he flinched. BIGTIME.

Edited November 30, 2015 by stealinghome

[BabyVegas]

Is Jim Nantz on tranquilizers or does he just hate Seattle? I mean Pitt was just driving and Ben threw a pick in the end zone and he announced it the same way I imagine he says "I'll take my eggs scrambled."

I'm fairly sure he hates Seattle. He's been slobbing Roethlisberger's knob all day despite the fact that Ben's thrown three INTs, all of which turned into points for the Seahawks. At this point I'm kind of wondering if it causes him physical pain to say anything nice about the Seahawks.

[yourpointis]

Is Jim Nantz on tranquilizers or does he just hate Seattle? I mean Pitt was just driving and Ben threw a pick in the end zone and he announced it the same way I imagine he says "I'll take my eggs scrambled."

 

If you think he hates Seattle, you ought to hear him when Peyton's playing behind center. 

[BabyVegas]

If you think he hates Seattle, you ought to hear him when Peyton's playing behind center.

I'm not convinced he's said anything useful in the last three and a half hours, so I'd be more than willing to believe that be likes to rag on Peyton. My personal feeling about most of the announcers is that they decide what "storylines" they're interested and what things they want to say prior to the actual game. Then they'll shoehorn it in one way or another.

Re: Cam's dancing. I'm not mad at it, generally speaking. The only times I get annoyed about that sort of thing is when a team is losing badly and wants to peacock on some play or when they celebrate something relatively minor like a gain of three yards or something. I do agree with whoever said it that Rodgers' championship belt thing is a little self-centered and silly, considering that his throw doesn't mean jack unless there's someone on the other end. But it's hardly the worst thing about NFL games.

[yourpointis]

I'm not convinced he's said anything useful in the last three and a half hours, so I'd be more than willing to believe that be likes to rag on Peyton. My personal feeling about most of the announcers is that they decide what "storylines" they're interested and what things they want to say prior to the actual game. Then they'll shoehorn it in one way or another.

Re: Cam's dancing. I'm not mad at it, generally speaking. The only times I get annoyed about that sort of thing is when a team is losing badly and wants to peacock on some play or when they celebrate something relatively minor like a gain of three yards or something. I do agree with whoever said it that Rodgers' championship belt thing is a little self-centered and silly, considering that his throw doesn't mean jack unless there's someone on the other end. But it's hardly the worst thing about NFL games.

 

I cannot remember if it was posted here or at TwoP regarding Phil's aversion to Peyton having something to do with Phil's son not making a college or pro team. Of course I can't remember a lot of things lol. Also here or TwoP someone posted that Aaron Rodgers stole that championship belt move from another qb, and thus that qb from another qb. Someone please confirm this so I won't think I'm going crazy lol. 

[topanga]

The moment Tomlin decided to kick the FG from the 3-yard line, down 5 with 3 minutes left, I called that the Seahawks would win. That was gut-check time and he flinched. BIGTIME.

I was thinking the same thing. I was rooting for Seattle, but I thought Pittsburgh had a chance to win the game if they'd gone for it on fourth down. Even if they didn't get the first, it would have put pressure on Seattle to score a touchdown or at least use up enough clock so the Steelers wouldn't get the ball back. And the defense had been pressuring Russell Wilson all game. Kicking the field goal was a safe call. In retrospect, it seems like too safe a call, but I'm not the one out there on the field. So I can't fault Tomlin too much. 

 

Jimmy Graham has torn the patellar tendon on his knee and will have surgery. That sucks. He's the second leading receiver on the team. Hopefully Doug Baldwin--who's the #1 receiver and the backup TE can expand their roles. Say, didn't Seattle lose its TE just before last year's playoffs? I think that's one of the reasons they didn't beat the Patriots.