NFL Thread

[BuckeyeLou]

On 7/14/2022 at 2:39 PM, DrSpaceman73 said:

I think we are all like that. 

In indy deer creek music theater has been renamed about 10 times over 30 years.  Everyone still calls it deer creek. 

And same with Pacers:  I just got used to Bankers Life & now it is Gainbridge...I cant remember all the new names :)

[DrSpaceman73]

52 minutes ago, BuckeyeLou said:

And same with Pacers:  I just got used to Bankers Life & now it is Gainbridge...I cant remember all the new names :)

Just the fieldhouse. 

[Carey]

On 7/16/2022 at 11:48 AM, Johann said:

I always just called it Steelers Stadium.  I don't memorize stadium names and just call it by the team name...if I'm even mentioning a stadium.  How does that even come up in a conversation?  Usually, it's, "I'm going to the game," not the stadium.  Okay, I'm going off on a tangent now...

Meh.  This is accurate enough.  In Pittsburgh, I refer to it as Heinz Field; outside, I say Steelers Stadium.  At least most people don't make an effort to memorize or learn the sponsorship names for all the teams.  FWIW, if Pittsburgh rolls, people could actually call it by their new name.  I agree, Johann.  I just say I'm going to the game.  Of course, to be accurate, I'd just say I'm going to the stadium.  No need to call it Heinz just for historic sake & to avoid the new name

[Lamb18]

Sometimes I still say "the Dome" for US Bank Stadium where the Vikings play, even though their former home, Hubert H Humphrey stadium (metrodome), no longer exists.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Lamb18

[Moose135]

That stadium in the Meadowlands will always be Giants Stadium to me...

[mojoween]

9 hours ago, Moose135 said:

That stadium in the Meadowlands will always be Giants Stadium to me...

Never have I agreed with you more.

[JTMacc99]

They took all the "Giants" out of the new stadium.  It's so gray and boring. I mean, the boxes and the general stadium and everything are fine and nicer than the old stadium, but it's still meant to be super neutral. Even when they Giants it up, it's still gray.

Although there are things they open up for just Giants games that makes it home, like the Legacy Club. 

[mojoween]

Do the Legacy Club members get a free medium soda?

[Danielg342]

3 hours ago, mojoween said:

Do the Legacy Club members get a free medium soda?

...I don't get it...

[mojoween]

6 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

...I don't get it...

Last year the Giants touted this awesome giveaway to their season ticket holders and it was a medium soda…in a regular cup.  They got ROASTED for it.

[Danielg342]

5 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Last year the Giants touted this awesome giveaway to their season ticket holders and it was a medium soda…in a regular cup.  They got ROASTED for it.

What a giant mistake...

...

......

...sorry, couldn't help it...

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, mojoween said:

Do the Legacy Club members get a free medium soda?

Oh, cabernet hurts when snorted back out.  But worth it, bless.

On 7/19/2022 at 7:00 AM, Moose135 said:

That stadium in the Meadowlands will always be Giants Stadium to me...

I'd refer to it as the Meadowlands rather than specifying the Giants, but damn if I'll ever utter the words "MetLife Stadium".

[JTMacc99]

I was actually at the free medium soda game in December. ("It must have cost the Giants tens of dollars to run that promotion." LOL)

I remember it more for the couple of snippets of the radio call of the game while I was there.

The first was after Glennon threw an interception, and I headed off to the restroom. As I was washing my hands the radio call came back from commercial and the first thing I hear is Bob Papa say "Carl, that was a HORRIBLE throw by Glennon."  Heh.  Yes, yes it was Bob.

Later as I was bailing out before the game ended, they once again came back from commercial and Bob asked Carl Banks something and poor Carl clearly wanted to eviscerate Glennon, but you could hear him restrain himself before saying that the Giants need to bring in a modern offense (as opposed to the crap they were running.)

So here's hoping that between Brian Dabol and the highly regarded Chiefs passing game coordinator Mike Kafka, that we'll see some plays that belong in a 2022 offense.

[JTMacc99]

In unrelated news, looks like the Cardinals gave Murray 5 years, $230M, 160M (!) guaranteed. 
 

Given that the team still had a 5th year and two franchise tags to deal with him from 2023-2025, my inner GM thinks they’re nuts for doing this deal. They had so much leverage. 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, JTMacc99 said:

In unrelated news, looks like the Cardinals gave Murray 5 years, $230M, 160M (!) guaranteed. 
 

Given that the team still had a 5th year and two franchise tags to deal with him from 2023-2025, my inner GM thinks they’re nuts for doing this deal. They had so much leverage. 

Yeah I’m not sure Murray is worth that much, he’s a good QB but I’m not sure if he’s a top tier QB. 

[JTMacc99]

38 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I’m not sure Murray is worth that much, he’s a good QB but I’m not sure if he’s a top tier QB. 

For me, it's not the amount and/or whether or not he's worth it. Honestly: good for him to get paid as one of the best QBs in the league. He's clearly a very important player for the Cardinals and especially running the offense their HC wants to run. 

My questioning the deal has to do with the fact the Cardinals had all of the leverage. Per the way the CBA works, Murray was essentially locked up for the next 2-4 years. His only leverage was to say he wouldn't play under the final two years of his rookie contract, which would have cost him about $30M between this year and next year. 

Giving him a contract this big at this time with that amount of guaranteed money seems like it only makes sense if the Cardinals are absolutely convinced he's their guy for the next 5 years, so might as well make him happy now.

[Carey]

Yeah, Arizona does have control.  In control, they do have his rights through the middle of the decade.  However, Murray has leverage in terms of the Cardinals needing to win now.  If they didn't pay Kyler, then they risk a disgruntled franchise QB.  If he's not there, then the Cards are in trouble as they don't have much of a team in terms of being NFC or Super Bowl contenders.

If Arizona was stacked, then there no need to pay him now.  Kyler hasn't won a playoff game.  By the way, there was mention elsewhere about the future of the NFL, where teams will address needs everywhere else, so that they won't have to drop money on a quarterback.  Get one on the cheap, have a veteran, and then start over with a franchise QB.  Of course, that's probably dumb if the face of the team is that good.

Arizona hasn't been that great since Palmer and Arians, and that was preceded by nonsense post Warner with Larry.  Therefore, it was what needed to happen.  IMO, the Cards should be okay.  I don't think they'll have to worry about Seattle, and San Francisco isn't a sure bet.  Los Angeles is their main competition.  It's possible they can do enough to win the NFC West

[mojoween]

Has Larry officially retired?  If not he’s letting the clock run long on his HOF consideration.

[Carey]

As long as Larry isn't on the field when the ball is snapped prior to early 2026, he'll be Canton-bound the following summer.

To answer the question: No he has not.  At best, I guess he left the door open.  He never said he retired but said he was done playing the game.  He's not under contract, so maybe he could return.  IMO, it would be either Arizona or Tampa, but I'd be surprised if he returned as a player beyond 2022

[mojoween]

Cleveland signed Josh Rosen and the article I read about it said the Browns signed a “veteran quarterback” and can somehow who has been in the league for four years, but doesn’t really have four years of playing time, be considered a veteran?

[mojoween]

Dan LeBatard gave a stat this week that there is no current active player in the NBA who has ever played the Sacramento Kings in the playoffs, and it feels like you could say the same thing in the NFL about the Jets…

except that SOMEONE won’t just LEAVE, already.

[Fukui San]

44 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Dan LeBatard gave a stat this week that there is no current active player in the NBA who has ever played the Sacramento Kings in the playoffs, and it feels like you could say the same thing in the NFL about the Jets…

except that SOMEONE won’t just LEAVE, already.

Revenge for 2010, bitches.

[Popples]

How awful for Metchie.

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, Popples said:

How awful for Metchie.

That’s horrible for Metchie, I hope he recovers and gets to play in the NFL. He was a good receiver at Alabama, who was overshadowed by the likes of DeVonta Smith, Jaylen Waddle and Jameson Williams.

[merylinkid]

Oh dear.   It does says its treatable.   And football players are very good about following treatment regimens.   Fingers crossed for a full recovery, no matter what he does in the future.

[mojoween]

I do not need this.  (I will absolutely be getting this)

[Carey]

6 hours ago, mojoween said:

I do not need this.  (I will absolutely be getting this)

I'll pass What mojoween said

[merylinkid]

Nope, nope, nope

(excuse me while I run off and order this)

[Lamb18]

Because I already have NFL Game Pass I will automatically switch to NFL Plus. And the annual subscription is lowered by $20 to 79.99. I just hope I can see games when they're over like I've been able to in the past.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Lamb18

[morriss]

It just boggles the mind that teams keep giving huge $$$ to players that have done shit all in their career.  (Murray being the latest)  🤔

[Xeliou66]

49ers announce Trey Lance will be their starting QB and that they’ve moved on from Jimmy G. I think it’s the right move as Lance as more potential, but I’m not completely sold on Lance, he’s unproven, it will be interesting to see how they do, but I think Lance gives them a better chance to be a championship team in the future, Jimmy G is a choker in big games - he shit the bed in Super Bowl 54, and in the NFC Title against the Rams last season. 

[Fukui San]

42 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

49ers announce Trey Lance will be their starting QB and that they’ve moved on from Jimmy G. I think it’s the right move as Lance as more potential, but I’m not completely sold on Lance, he’s unproven, it will be interesting to see how they do, but I think Lance gives them a better chance to be a championship team in the future, Jimmy G is a choker in big games - he shit the bed in Super Bowl 54, and in the NFC Title against the Rams last season. 

Wanting to upgrade from Jimmy G? Perfectly understandable.

Putting all your chips on someone as unproven as Trey Lance?  A huge high risk/high reward gamble. Especially when Jimmy G will bring you back nothing or next to nothing in the trade market.

[JTMacc99]

51 minutes ago, morriss said:

It just boggles the mind that teams keep giving huge $$$ to players that have done shit all in their career.  (Murray being the latest)  🤔

I went over my thoughts about this particular contract above. It's pretty obvious that the Cardinals believe that they're going to run with Kingsbury & Murray, and that they needed to make the latter happy so the former could do his job.

The stuff that came out in the last day about Murray contractually agreeing to do "four hours a week of independent study" is certainly interesting.

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

Wanting to upgrade from Jimmy G? Perfectly understandable.

Putting all your chips on someone as unproven as Trey Lance?  A huge high risk/high reward gamble. Especially when Jimmy G will bring you back nothing or next to nothing in the trade market.

Agreed. But I think the Niners had to make the decision, as it’s clear Jimmy G was never getting them to a championship. It’s definitely a high risk/high reward situation, and I’m not sold on Lance given that he’s barely played in the NFL and only played 1 season of CFB at North Dakota St, but I think they made the right decision - they have a very talented team and they need to take risks to try to win instead of settling with Jimmy G. And it’s best to go ahead and give Lance the reigns to start the season instead of waiting until during the season, in order to avoid a QB controversy. 

[rcc]

49 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

I went over my thoughts about this particular contract above. It's pretty obvious that the Cardinals believe that they're going to run with Kingsbury & Murray, and that they needed to make the latter happy so the former could do his job.

The stuff that came out in the last day about Murray contractually agreeing to do "four hours a week of independent study" is certainly interesting.

"Independent study". What does that mean!

[JTMacc99]

5 minutes ago, rcc said:

"Independent study". What does that mean!

It is actually spelled out in the contract if I've heard correctly. It means they're going to give him game plans, tape, whatever, and he's got to spend time going over it by himself. I heard something about it not counting towards the four hours if he's reviewing it on a tablet (whatever the heck that means if it is true.)

[rcc]

15 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

It is actually spelled out in the contract if I've heard correctly. It means they're going to give him game plans, tape, whatever, and he's got to spend time going over it by himself. I heard something about it not counting towards the four hours if he's reviewing it on a tablet (whatever the heck that means if it is true.)

Looks like coddling to me. Shouldn't he be a professional and do those things without it being written into a contract. He is no top QB and should not be paid like one.

[Carey]

I sorta wanted to see Brady vs Jimmy G.  The guy who was traded half a decade ago was the starter throughout a season, but somehow managed to miss a head-to-head with TB12.  FWIW, I can't see Tom losing anyway, but it would have been an overblown story worth tuning into

[Carey]

Looks like there's some news that might be considered breaking.  I guess that Super Bowl loss curse might still be a thing.

The season, while just around the corner, is still about a month and a half away, this is the issue that helped wreck Roethlisberger's 3rd season.  Who knows, but I don't expect Burrow, who's headed to his 3rd season, to travel around on a motorcycle.  If he does, so be it, but the chances of him wrecking and riding without a helmet is very rare

[Irlandesa]

8 hours ago, rcc said:

Looks like coddling to me. Shouldn't he be a professional and do those things without it being written into a contract. He is no top QB and should not be paid like one.

I don't think it's coddling.  It's trying to micromanage an employee into doing what they should be doing on their own. 

It's frankly pretty embarrassing that they felt a need to spell it out like that.  It makes very little sense to me that they're willing to pay him this money and willing to basically throw his work ethic under the bus like that. 

Or is this something that's more common in contracts than we think?

[Fukui San]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed. But I think the Niners had to make the decision, as it’s clear Jimmy G was never getting them to a championship. It’s definitely a high risk/high reward situation, and I’m not sold on Lance given that he’s barely played in the NFL and only played 1 season of CFB at North Dakota St, but I think they made the right decision - they have a very talented team and they need to take risks to try to win instead of settling with Jimmy G. And it’s best to go ahead and give Lance the reigns to start the season instead of waiting until during the season, in order to avoid a QB controversy. 

I don't really agree. Jimmy had a 4th quarter lead in the 2019 Super Bowl and was tied with 2 minutes left in the NFCC last season. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that he might have been able to win a championship if the 49ers drafted Jamar Chase, Micah Parsons or Kyle Pitts instead of Trey Lance given that they almost beat the actual Super Bowl winners. 

They way experts talk about this trade is very strange to me. Everybody is in a hurry to push Jimmy out the door, and I get he's an unexciting but adequate starting QB, but Trey Lance to date has proven absolutely nothing and they traded the picks that were used to take first round picks Micah Parsons, Cole Strange, a 3rd round pick this year and a future 1st rounder. I don't see people talk about this trade as being like a 50% chance for being a total disaster if Lance isn't the man in very short order. If Lance struggles for two years then settles in as a top 10ish QB haven't the Niners missed a great window?

[Danielg342]

12 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

I heard something about it not counting towards the four hours if he's reviewing it on a tablet (whatever the heck that means if it is true.)

According to the contract, it does not count if Kyler Murray is doing something else while also reviewing the footage the Arizona Cardinals gave him. Essentially, the Cardinals are telling Murray he can't do something like play the footage in a minimized program while he's watching YouTube videos on cats (or whatever he likes watching videos on).

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It's frankly pretty embarrassing that they felt a need to spell it out like that.  It makes very little sense to me that they're willing to pay him this money and willing to basically throw his work ethic under the bus like that. 

I can't speak to whether or not it's a common thing in contracts, but my guess is that because this clause is a newsworthy item (even NFL.com talked about it), this clause is not common.

I agree with you- this clause is rather ridiculous and points to larger problems that make me wonder why the Cardinals are "all-in" with Murray. I would assume that every NFL player- right on down to the third stringers, the practice squad players, and even the lowest-profile free agents- would be judicious about studying tape, going over the game plan, understanding to the greatest detail about what their job is and how they can achieve it, etc.

They're professionals, right? You expect them, at a base, to take the game seriously and care about the job, especially those who have been around a while like Murray has.

I mean, we're not talking about McDonald's employees here where you basically take what you get (and even then...). This is the NFL...if a player is not serious about it, there's no way anyone would want to sign him, let alone give him a monster contract.

Reminds me of when Lamar Jackson complained that "the other teams know what we're doing". Of course they do, Lamar. That's what NFL players, coaches, etc. are paid to do. If you're not anticipating that the other team has studied you and knows you better than you know yourself- and you plan and adjust accordingly- then you've got no business being in the NFL.

Long story short...if the Cardinals feel it is so important to remind Kyler Murray in his contract that he has to fulfill basic duties that he should be fulfilling anyway, I have to ask why those character concerns are not so great that they feel they can give Murray the richest contract a quarterback has ever received, much of it guaranteed.

I'm going to close with this. My brother pointed out this: in college, at Texas Tech, Patrick Mahomes was erratic and those worries affected his draft stock somewhat. After he went to the Chiefs, he became a much better, more accurate passer and...well we all know what he did.

Same thing happened before Mahomes with Baker Mayfield, who was also considered erratic at Tech but rebounded after he transferred to Oklahoma, where he won the Heisman.

Who was Mahomes' and Mayfield's coach at Tech? Kliff Kingsbury. Who happens to be coaching the erratic Murray right now.

So, maybe the problem isn't Murray playing video games when he should be watching game tape.

Maybe it's his coach.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Danielg342

[merylinkid]

2 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

his is the NFL...if a player is not serious about it, there's no way anyone would want to sign him, let alone give him a monster contract.

Michael Vick after he got out of prison admitted that he never watched game tape.   He just tossed the dvds in the back seat of his car and never looked at them.   You could tell he had no idea how to do anything other than let his innate talent when he was rusty after getting out of prison.    He didn't know how to overcome his loss of talent by just knowing the game better.   If you look back at his Falcons playing days it showed.   A LOT.    They never had consecutive back to back winning seasons, it was always  over 8 wins, then like 4 wins the next year.   Rinse and repeat.

But the Cardonals ownership has decided they like Klif Kingsbury as HC.   They hired him EXPRESSLY to coach Murray.    Kingsbury was headed to UCLA as an assistant when he got offered the Cards job.   So to avoid looking stupid in hiring Kingsbury, they have to make Murray work somehow.   Which means overpaying him but then putting homework clauses and no baseball not even exhibition or charity games clauses in his contract.   

And Kingsbury sucks as an HC.   His offense is vanilla.   Good grief he couldn't get the best out of LARRY FITZGERALD who disappeared in the Kingsbury offense.

[Carey]

Merylinkid, everything you said is accurate.  Mike Vick did not put in the effort like Drew Brees would when it came to NFL preparation.  His gifts did the work for him.  The latter is a hall of famer while the former first overall pick is not going to the HOF.   At least as a player Vick isn’t, but he was nowhere near a bust either.

There was a big deal made when during the Smith/Ryan era they had back-to-back winning seasons for the first time, and then a couple years later they made the playoffs in consecutive seasons, a then-unprecedented feat I believe.

While that didn’t happen when Mike was with Atlanta, to be fair, he wasn’t there.  One may or may not blame Vick for it, but the 4-5 win season occurred when he missed most of the 2003 season due to injury, and second one occurred the year after his final season with the team on the Falcons active roster.  Following great years before and after the ’03 year, it was not a success, but not on the levels of modern day Lions/Jet and 2010s Browns.  Mike’s final years were .500 and then a couple games under .500.

That being said, the lack of preparation or study is true.  Coincidentally, Cowherd mentioned this earlier this week as it relates to one’s preparation.  In addition to Mike Vick, Favre was more adlib than not.  Big Ben too.  People like Brady and Brees were more film/study addicts; they did have the athletic gifts the others did.

I’ll probably wait to see if Arizona outta punt Klif Kingsbury following the 2022 season, but he didn’t have a great track record heading into the league.  I’d blame the Cards for giving him a chance, but they have improved in terms of on the field and results since the start of the decade.  Larry was well past his prime, but it’s still a mess than you couldn’t work him into the offense, as he was still good.  There may be optimism that Murray will “grow up” and do well, but probably not.  The link to Mayfield is accurate, and Baker didn’t get paid.  Kyler has, and there is a track record of people going the wrong direction following their payday

[JTMacc99]

55 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Michael Vick after he got out of prison admitted that he never watched game tape.

Interestingly, as people are talking about the requirement in Murray's contract, somebody remembered that the NY Times had this quote from Murray:

“I think I was blessed with the cognitive skills to just go out there and just see it before it happens,” Murray said, via Sarah Kezele of 98.7 Arizona Sports. “I’m not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself watching film. I don’t sit there for 24 hours and break down this team and that team and watch every game because, in my head, I see so much.”

One could speculate that the team believes in him, otherwise why would they have given him such a big extension?

So what's the real reason for putting a study clause into the contract of a many who explicitly stated "I'm not into watching film"? I genuinely doubt it's in the contract because they want to force him to study more.

So this is where I'm falling on this topic: The team wanted to give themselves an easy out of all that guaranteed money. Like I said above, there was no good reason to give a player who was already locked up for the next two years ($11.3M in 2022, $29.7M in 2023) an additional huge, mostly guaranteed contract extension.

Murray had done the "removed all mention of the Cardinals from his social media" thing. He had is agent issue an all caps tweet about needing to get this extension done. He had all but stated outright that he was willing to sit out this entire year if he didn't get a contract extension. He basically forced the team to do something they really didn't have to do.

So I think that the team is going to keep a running list of each week where Mr. "my superior cognitive skill means I don't need to watch tape" doesn't watch any tape. I doubt they'll even attempt to enforce this clause the next two years.

Then two years from now, after Murray's absolutely guaranteed money is done, this clause is the team's out.

If Kingsbury and Murray have done well and the team is a contender, no peep on the study clause. If things haven't gone well, the Cardinals can drop a list of all the times he failed to live up to this clause and bail out of the contract.  

[Crs97]

I would imagine that Peyton Manning will never be a paid coach because he cannot comprehend players not watching every piece of film ever made.  He always said his fear was saying that he hadn’t expected that defensive play only to be told they used it once 5-6-7 games earlier and he missed it.

[JTMacc99]

I was listening to the radio earlier today and former coach Todd Haley talked about how Vinny Testaverde used to practically hover over the coaches to get the game materials on Tuesday. When he came back into the facility on Wednesday, he had everything transcribed on to a wristband. If they asked him, what is play #5, he could tell them the play, the formation, and so on.

It was a good example of what "private study" means. 

To be fair to Kyler, all of that prep work still didn't stop Vinny from throwing the ball to the wrong team a lot during his career. (Although, Vinny was pretty great in 1998 with the Jets, which is when Haley was there.) 

[mojoween]

This pic was in my FB memories from today in 2017 and I am *still* not over this.  I’ll never be over this.

Edited July 27, 2022 by mojoween

[Danielg342]

@mojoween, I still don't know why the Seahawks didn't run it either. Especially considering "Beastquake" just a few years earlier.

Concerning Mr. Murray, I do acknowledge outliers exist. Just like in any sport- or profession, really- there are those who may not "prepare" the way we might envision that they should, but they deliver results so what else they do does not matter.

However, generally speaking, players who aren't studious about their game and their opponents don't succeed, and if they do, it's not for very long. Michael Vick is a pretty good example of that. I have to question Vick's commitment, at least early on in his career, considering the dog-fighting scandal and the many other issues he had before then.

If he had his head on straight, who knows how great he could have been. Same thing with Ryan Leaf and hockey player Alexandre Daigle, among others.

Which brings me to Murray. If the Cardinals felt he was successful on the field despite his unorthodox preparation methods, why put a clause in his contract asking him to work harder? If he isn't meeting expectations and needs to be reminded to work harder in order to achieve them, why extend him at all (the Cardinals didn't need to do it), let alone give him the richest contract in NFL history?

I'm with @JTMacc99 on this one- this "independent study" clause is an out. Since we all know Arizona has no actual way of policing the clause, if things with Murray go south before the extension kicks in they can just cite this clause and they can release Murray without incident.

Or, they think they can...because I'm sure in the aftermath the NFLPA will give them a lot of headaches. If they're not doing so already.

[Perfect Xero]

13 hours ago, mojoween said:

This pic was in my FB memories from today in 2017 and I am *still* not over this.  I’ll never be over this.

Replace Seahawks with Falcons and it works for a whole other fanbase.