NFL Thread

[magdalene]

How the NFL Let Deflate-gate Get Out of Control and Ridiculous

 

It just feels to me like the officials regarded deflating the footballs like going 60 MPH in a 55 zone ahead of the game, then when the story took off in the media and fans hyped up on Cheatriot outrage, the same violation suddenly turned into driving the wrong way down the interstate, because the integrity of a game in the National Football League was in question and such a thing could not be countenanced!  Though you would think if it were such an egregious violation to begin with, and the officials were warned that the Patriots were messing with their balls (hah), they would have been watching like hawks and on top of it when the balls went missing before the game, using the most accurate pressure gauges, etc. That's not to say it's all the officials' fault that they didn't stop the Patriots from cheating—they shouldn't have done it—more that the officials' pre-game response reveals either their ineptitude or illustrates how the refs didn't initially see the deflation issue as this earth-shattering, suspension-worthy, driving-a-stake-into-the-integrity-of-the-game big deal.

 

I heard about The Deflator being a nickname for the guy's weight-loss efforts on Rich Eisen's radio show during my lunch break; apparently, there are other texts to back up this excuse. Rich and the guys on the show pointed out that you'd think the Patriots would have just mentioned this in the first place and saved themselves some trouble.

Nods. That's what I heard too, that there is actual evidence that this poor guy was trying to lose weight and that's the unfortunate nickname he got. 

 

Whoever did the investigating on this bizarre case doesn't come across as the sharpest tool if this is true. Shouldn't they have double-checked their so-called "evidence"? Or maybe the NFL was just looking for anything to punish this team. Just from reading this thread here it's clear to me Tom Brady and the Patriots are not popular.

[DrSpaceman]

So if that it the reason for the text in question why did the Patriots deny a second interview of him to Wells, who wanted an answer to this very question and the reason for this very text, and told the Patriots this was one of the texts in question he wanted answers about? Why not just let him be interviewed again and let him say it? Wells DID want to double check the evidence by asking the person in question what the text meant and the Patriots wouldn't let him.

I don't believe that excuse for a second.

The reason the Patriots are not popular is because they cheat and lie, as shown by this whole process. One of the reasons this process exploded out of control is because Kraft demanded an apology and tried demanding nothing come of this before the NFL even had a chance to investigate.

The officials have a thousand things to do before a game. They don't have time to play babysitter to the Pats every step of the way.

Its also very possible, in fact likely, he was called the "deflator" for both his weight loss AND for this "job" of his, a double meaning inside joke for the team......only not so inside anymore. Have you ever called anyone who lost weight a "deflator"? How would that label ever be just randomly attached to him?

Edited May 15, 2015 by DrSpaceman

[merylinkid]

It was clear after awhile that this "investigation" was not to determine what happened but to prove the Patriots cheated.   At that point, I would have stopped cooperating too.   Tom was right not to turn over his phone records.   Even if he had, they would have been miscontrued or taken out of context, anything exonerating him would have been dismissed.   Same with making McNally available again, just to twist his words some more?   Nope.   If someone is gunning for you, you don't have them the ammo.

[FuriousStyles]

Whats funny about the topic of other organizations just accepting their punishments and moving on is that Kraft himself issued a statement saying they WOULD accept their punishment....until of course they saw what the punishment actually was.

If Brady was 100% innoncent then why would they accept any punishment whatsoever, especially when months ago, they were all so defiant and Kraft went so far as to demand an apology? Why have they suspended the ball guys indefinitely if there was no wrongdoing? Seems like the Pats are talking out of both sides of their mouth.

And Tom Brady...his best comment of this thing was when someone asked if he was a cheater he says "I dont believe so". If Tom Brady isnt convinced of his own innocence, how could anyone else?

[DrSpaceman]

If you truly believe there is some "witch hunt" by the league against the Pats then nothing in any report short of a text message from Brady to someone saying "be sure the balls are 11 PSI" would prove anything.  Even then they'd probably claim someone hacked his phone. 

 

It makes no sense for the NFL or Goodell to have a vendetta against the Pats.  Why would the league want to delegitimize the validity of the current SB champ and call into question the results of an entire season?  And Kraft has been one of Goodells biggest supporters among the owners.  He helped get him the job in 2006 as commissioner.  It makes no sense for Goodell to turn on Kraft for no reason.  If anything the slant should be Goodell wants to find nothing on him

 

The moment you start buying into conspiracy theories and witch hunts and such things though, the report, no matter what it would say, ceases to matter, so its pointless to even argue. 

 

ALso, still not a word from Brady himself direclty about the report since this was released.  Its all from his lawyers and the Pats. 

 

There is also the fact there are TWO parts to the report, there was also a question about the kicking balls, they found no wrongdoing and cleared them.  But I guess all Wells work on that part of it was just AOK and we should trust him on that, just not on the part where the Pats are guilty?  The whole point of the report was to find the Pats guilty no matter what, but they found no evidence and did not find them guilty of anything in part of the investigation????  Makes no sense. 

Edited May 15, 2015 by DrSpaceman

[Danny Franks]

Its also very possible, in fact likely, he was called the "deflator" for both his weight loss AND for this "job" of his, a double meaning inside joke for the team......only not so inside anymore. Have you ever called anyone who lost weight a "deflator"? How would that label ever be just randomly attached to him?

 

This. Calling someone a 'deflator' because they're trying to lose weight is just... I don't see where the dots connect. Yes, you might use the deflation analogy to describe the process, but it's hardly the first thing you'd jump to. Unless, of course, it was funny for more than one reason.... Hmm....

 

But the Pats are also trying to claim that the "he" and "him" the two guys refer to in texts are someone other than Brady, despite referring to Brady by name in texts immediately preceding them. This whole thing is making me smile so much, because they're all just so bad at trying to wriggle their way out of it.

 

And I'll restate, the idea that the NFL would choose to make an example of the Patriots, alienating their powerful owner an the pretty boy face of the League, just to prove they can be tough and that rules matter, is ludicrous. If they wanted to do that, they'd pick the Jags or the Titans, or some other team that no one cares about. The principle would still be the same, you just wouldn't have Kraft crying about being offended and Brady hiding behind expensive lawyers. If all teams cheat (as I've seen Pats fans claim... while they simultaneously try to claim that their team is innocent), then the NFL should be able to find some infraction on one of those teams to 'make an example of'.

 

[AstaCharles]

Don Brady..yeah that's the ticket... ( channeling Jon Lovitz) ;)

[merylinkid]

But they can't go all "integrity of the game" after the balls go missing for several minutes after inspection but before the start of the game then use those balls in the game.   At the least the balls should have been checked again.   There are alternate balls.   Those could have been used.

 

Why is it a big deal AFTER the game, but not before the game?

[Fukui San]

I don't think Goodell started in hating the Patriots.  I think he's exceptionally dumb, a habitual liar, does not respect anything but his own authority, oversteps his bounds at every opportunity, and his punishments are gauged by how much people kowtow to his greatness and public hysteria rather than any actual importance or proportion.  When you come in he does not want the accused to explain their point of view or why he might have gotten it wrong. He just wants him to dress in his Sunday best, make sad eyes at him and say "I'm so sorry, massa.  I dun messed up, but I won't do it again, suh!" Then he'll pat you on the back, give you a 2 game suspension, and say that if you straighten up and fly right you'll go far, Ray Rice. 

 

We know he lies. See the laughable Ray Rice videotape excuse.

We know he makes up reasons to overstep his authority. See his tacking on additional game punishments to Adrian Petersen for no legally justifiable reason.

We know his punishments have no basis in fact or precedent but to quell public outrage.  See his additional punishments to Ray Rice when it was almost universally agreed that he underpunished compared to his other draconian punishments.

We know that Goodell's decisions do not stand up to outside scrutiny. See the judge ruling against him in the Petersen case, and Paul Tagliabue ruling against the Bountygate decisions.

 

In summation, I have more confidence in Scientology running a fair investigation in its own actions than Goodell.  If you're happy that the team you hate is getting a black eye, then have a party.  But it's a 100% clown show in the league office, and it has been since day 1.

[FuriousStyles]

The Pats already had a black eye with Spygate. This is probably more like a busted lip. But in any event, the Pats did it to themselves. THEY are the ones who skirted the rules (no matter how arbitrary or inconsequential) and then had the nerve to get all indignant when anyone dared to question them about it.

Whatever the punishment was (even a slap on the wrist) wouldnt have negated the general fan's (correct, IMO) perception of the Patriots as cheating cheaters who cheat.

[ganesh]

I don't think anyone seriously doubts the Pats cheated. They should be punished for deflating footballs, which should amount to a slap on the wrist. The point is the league office has shown to be all over the place in terms of any consistent disciplinary rubric, and the penalty for the Pats seems more like it's based on their history of cheating rather than this specific incident. You can't issue a specific punishment based on how people don't like the accused party. It's not like all of a sudden the commish is being criticized. Nearly everyone who covers football agrees that every major incident in which the league has had to issue some kind of penalty has been botched. 

[FuriousStyles]

So what if their past cheating was taken into account when these punishments were doled out?  Most if not all of the penalties have a tier system.  Fail a drug test once, its a certain amount of games, fail it twice its more games, fail it a third time its even more.  Same thing (now) with the domestic violence policy.  As a repeat offender the Pats should have expected a heavier hand. 

[ganesh]

That's fair, but it's also ex post facto and therefore illegal. That system has to be in place prior to issuing penalties. The investigation focused strictly on the deflate issue. If the commish is sentencing the Pats based on a history of cheating, then that's wrong. Furthermore, the actual cheating issues are different. This isn't the second or third time the Pats have been caught deflating. You don't get a harsher sentence because you got caught with weed, and then later in the year you get a speeding ticket, so you have to go to jail now.  Penalties for drug violations I would guess are in the CBA so a player knows ahead of time what they are. You got caught, this is what happens.

 

The league isn't a court of law and there's not established levels of proof. However, we live by the rule of law and there's common law principles like due process or not having to prove your innocence that we abide by. There isn't any legit news organization that hasn't said this entire process is sloppy and arbitrary. I think the commish made an error singling out Brady and not just fining the Pats. Even if Brady sits 2 games, others have said that Goodell may have signed his own ouster and that could be possible. 

Edited May 16, 2015 by ganesh

[Crs97]

Furthermore, the actual cheating issues are different. This isn't the second or third time the Pats have been caught deflating. You don't get a harsher sentence because you got caught with weed, and then later in the year you get a speeding ticket, so you have to go to jail now.

Actually, the better analogy would be the "three strike" rules for persistent offenders. They don't have to be convicted of the exact same crime three times to invoke the harsher penalty.

[merylinkid]

This isn't a court of law, as noted.   But, Goodell is the first Commish who is not a lawyer.   I used to think "yeah so what."   Now I start to wonder if a lawyer take a different approach to punishment.   Of course, before Goodell, everyone was screaming that the players were out of control and getting away with too much as long as they played well on the field.   Part of Goodell's mandate was to clean up the League's image.   

 

I also think that Goodell came down so hard on the Pats because everyone THOUGHT he would go easy on his buddy Robert Kraft.   So to counter that perception he went too hard.   Because it's all about image.    See I can bust my friend hard so don't even think about getting out of line.   But that is just as bad as going too light because you are still letting friendship color your punishment.  

 

I will say until proven otherwise, that report is weasel worded and not supported by a lot of facts.   You can't take a "my best recollection" and conclude the exact opposite.   You can't get several different readings on PSI and conclude there was cheating.   You can't sit someone 4 games because of a likelihood they had general knowledge of something.    Hell on that standard, if there was cheating, the whole team probably knew and therefore the whole team should get 4 games.   And if there was such general knowledge -- how come Belichek was completely cleared?   Oh he didn't know?   Well neither did Sean Payton in NO and he go a whole year off for Bountygate because he should have known.   

 

The NFL needs to put this one behind them quickly.   Then have some sort of standard established for who gets punished for what.   The law has different levels of standard of proof -- but there is a standard of proof.   The NFL needs to do that ASAP.

[ganesh]

It's fair to say Goodell over did it. Which underscores why there should be an independent board handing down these penalties. Now, he's going to hear the appeal too? If that's not a conflict of interest I don't know what is. 

 

I also think the 'three strikes' policy is fair too. But it has to be put into place prior to being actually implemented.

 

I think the NFL needs to get over itself. Players, management, coaches, etc. I kind of want this to actually go to court and just be a total mess.

[DrSpaceman]

There is already a standard of proof used for these cases by the NFL. Its exactly why the report was worded as it was, "more probable than not". You can not like the language, but that is the standard of proof needed for these cases. If the NFLPA doesn't like it, they can get it changed. If the NFLPA does like Goodell hearing the appeals, again, negotiate it in the CBA instead of worrying mostly about squeezing every penny they can out of everything possible. This is all collectively bargained ahead of time. in fact KRAFT HIMSELF was the ownwer primarily responsible for negotiating ALL of this at the last CBA, so if he doesn't like it now, his own fault. He personally basically allowed Goodell to have this power. It was Kraft as the primary owner AND the NFLPA on the other side that negotiated all of this, now both sides are complaining Goodell has this power? They both gave him this power, now that it works against them, they don't like it.

As far as I am concerned the moment the balls were taken out of the officials room before a game and into another room by a member of the Pats, unsupervised, for no good reason given, they lose any possible presumption of innocence at that point and I put more of the burden on them to prove their innocence. And again, you can't on the one hand demand a high standard to suspend Brady but then at the same time refuse key evidence like phone records, texts, emails, etc as Brady did. You can't expect both the best of both worlds, a basically legal standard for guilt but at the same time a less than legal standard for what evidence can be obtained. If you are denying the investigators potential key pieces of evidence without good reason, then the standard used for presumed guilt is going to be lower.

[jcin617]

Well, for the team itself, it's now moot:  Kraft 'reluctantly' accepts punishment and won't appeal.

 

I presume Brady is still appealing;  after Kraft and Goodell's back room meetings, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a quid pro quo with regards to his appeal.

[Fukui San]

Absolute bullshit.  I'd rather have every win in the Belichick era vacated by a court of law than to accept this punishment. Screw you Kraft for giving in.  The league has nothing. The league would have lost in a court of law or a neutral arbitrator as they always do. I'll never forgive Kraft for not fighting this to the end.

[ganesh]

I thought quid pro quo too. It's bad for the league as a whole of this goes to court, as much as I would have liked it. Probably bad PR for the Pats too, though i think they could take the hit. The NFL needs to be knocked down a peg and is not fundamental to the fabric of American society as it thinks it is.

There's no doubt it's a back room deal. Unless Kraft is pulling Machiavelli and cut the deal to quell Goodell while he plans to oust him. That's one long con.

[FuriousStyles]

Well, I definitely underestimated Kraft, the businessman. No doubt this was some back room deal and I think its even more likely now that Brady's suspension gets dropped down to 2 games if not 1. I cant say im upset with either side in this. Nobody was really looking good in the grand scheme of things and its best for all if this to just dies down and go away.

[merylinkid]

Peter King noted that Kraft is 73 and probably did not want to go out like Al Davis -- suing the league to the end.     Plus, Kraft has always put the League first.   He just got mad because his loyality wasn't rewarded.    I'm sure he and Goodell talked it out like adults and reached a deal that made everyone happy.

[AimingforYoko]

In non-Deflategate news:

Owners vote to change PAT rules.

[DrSpaceman]

Adam Schefter denied this morning there was any quid pro quo of the Pats dropping the team appeal in exchange for a reduced suspension for Brady. 

 

I have a hard time believe that though. 

 

This all happened in the backdrop of the owner's meeting.  My guess, and also implied by Schefter as well, is Kraft got to the owners meeting and figured out he does not have any support for his moves or whatever he had planned among the other owners, they were tired of the whole thing and told him to just stop with it and take the punishment, like every other team typically does with these sorts of things. 

 

Atlanta got punished for crowd noise and Cleveland for text messages.  And you don't see those owners threatening to sue the league.  You can compare this to ray Rice if you want or say its not a big deal, but its certainly as big a deal as crowd noise or text messages. 

In non-Deflategate news:

Owners vote to change PAT rules.

 

I maintain this is a solution in need of a problem

 

Not a single fan was clamoring for the PAT rules to be changed. 

 

Further if they WERE going to change this, what they should do is just narrow the goalposts and make both PATs and FGs harder.  I personally think the FG percentages being so high drop the excitement of the games WAY more than the PATs being automatic.  FGs are worth three points, you get none if you miss, whereas is a PAT, by definition, is an etxra point after a team already scored 6.  If you want more drama in the game, make FGs harder, not the PATs.  Makes no sense to me. 

 

All the kickers, or 90% of them, have FG made percentages in a very narrow range, there is little separation between any of them. 

[Constantinople]

Garo Yepremian died

[Snowprince]

May the Cypriot field goal kicking necktie maker rest peacefully. Another empty chair at the Perfect Season reunion.  

[mojoween]

Peyton Manning's reflections on David Letterman.

I will always adore Peyton. And it rankles me that I actually heard someone compare Peyton's legacy where he can't win the big game (mostly) to Tahmmy's new legacy of cheating. So not the same thing.

[shoregirl]

That's a good piece. That was super classy of Letterman to call Peyton and ask him how he felt about having Andrew Luck on to present him with the Colts jersey.

[Bastet]

There's a link in that to Bobby Bell's moving piece on finally completing his college education at age 74. 

[Constantinople]

That settles that.
 
Bleacher Report: 72-Year-Old Woman Says Tom Brady Is Innocent in Her Obituary

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

The punishment for the Patriots and the current national perception is equivalent to a parent coming home from work and disciplining their child for something they may have done during the day because last week they did something wrong. Every team has a blemish in their history. You can't keep fining and suspending because once upon a time.

 

Full disclosure: I'm a Patriots fan. When I first heard the accusations I rolled my eyes. I got a sick feeling in my stomach when there were reports coming out of the league saying 10 of the 12 balls were at or below 10.5 (false but leaked from the NFL). Then the rest of the story unfolded. 

 

Before I formed a conclusion I read every word of the Wells report. I won't argue it with anyone who hasn't. There are a lot of interesting facts in there.

 

A) The Wells report clearly states the Colts broke the rules. They stuck a gauge in a football which is clearly prohibited according to the rules. 

B) Anderson lost track of the balls twice. He couldn't find them before the game. He couldn't find them at halftime. 

C) Anderson was told there were concerns about the Patriots footballs and he lost track of them. He didn't sound an alarm nor did he bother to at least stick a gauge in one ball to confirm they hadn't been tampered with before the game. The balls magically reappeared and he shrugged the entire situation off.

D) An official inflated the Patriots balls to 16 PSI (if we are to take McNally and Jastremski's texts as gospel) for the Jets game on 10.16.14. I was there and Brady didn't have a great game. 

E) After the Jets game Brady determined based on the League's rules he preferred the balls closer to 12.5 than 13.5. He asked a copy of the rules be given to the officials so they could see they were remaining within the League's rules. The following game was against the Bears. I was there again. Brady had an incredible game and we skinned the Bears.

F) Walt Anderson recollects the Patriots' balls were estimated at 12.5/12.6. The Colts' balls were closer to 13/13.1. There is no official recording of this data.

G) Upon determining the Patriots' footballs were below the limits at halftime, the officiating crew filled them to acceptable limits. Three out of four of the Colts' balls were also under legal limit on one of the gauges despite starting at a higher PSI.  

H) McNally used the restroom prior to the start of the game.

I) The officials tested all of the Patriots' balls but only 4 of the Colts' balls at halftime because they ran out of time.

J) Rather than saying sneakers McNally refers to "kicks" and also refers to himself in the third person via text. 

K) Goodell hired Wells.

L) Wells hired Exponent.

M) Despite re-inflating the footballs at halftime the balls were below acceptable PSI levels at the end of the game. At this point in time the Patriots were under intense scrutiny.

N) Exponent concludes the atmosphere has no bearing on the PSI levels in footballs. 

O) The Wells report couldn't prove any cheating occurred. They also didn't disprove any cheating occurred.

P) The Wells report fell to the side of "guilty until proven innocent."

 

Here are a few points many want to ignore by burying their heads in the sand.

A) Any text to Jastremski or McNally from Brady would have been on their phones. There is no need to see Brady's phone. 

B) The League has leaks (10 balls out of 12 at 10.5 or lower) so Brady is justified in not providing his phone. Also he didn't provide anything concerning the situation because there might not have been anything. Any obscure references can look incriminating if not provided in context.

C) Exponent is hired when a client wants to prove/disprove a theory. Their findings more often than not are purchased and not factual. 

D) Atmospheric conditions play a large part in PSI especially in winter in New England. Anyone who has ever taken a basketball outside in November in Mass knows this. 

E) Anderson recorded no data pre-game. You have to take him at his word and hope his memory is good for the starting PSI levels. 

F) The Colts' balls were also under PSI on one gauge. The Colts' balls started at a higher PSI and had more room to fall. Was someone on their sideline deflating balls?

G) The Colts' balls saw far less playing time than the Patriots' balls. Yet another factor which affects PSI.

H) When the Patriots were videotaping the Jets, they admitted to it and took their punishment like adults. 

I) McNally appears to have the maturity of a 17 yo. Deflator could have a completely abstract meaning. I call my friends "crackheads" even though they aren't drug users because sometimes their ideas should have been birthed out of highs.

 

I get it. As a Patriots fan I know there is a lot of hate. Every time I wear a Patriots fleece or move out of New England, I know there is going to be shade thrown my way. However, I remain loyal because they are a part of a league which puts money, power, and fame ahead of the game. Every team is seeking the competitive edge. There is no team above the board. If I want to watch the NFL then I have to accept there are drug users and those who are popped for DUI. I draw the line at spouse/child abuse and murder.

 

As a loyal fan for longer than Brady's been on the roster, I can say he is a great QB because he is first to the facility and last to leave. He is competitive in the off season. No one on the team studies longer or works harder. BB is a genius. Harbaugh can whine all he wants, but it is crap when BB plays within the rules and other coaches have to get the rules changed to stay competitive. We've been outsmarted. You should have seen our defense against the Wildcat a few years ago. 

 

We could just embrace one line of the report and take it out of context and blow the whole thing out of the water.
" regardless of the assumptions made." Ass-u-me

 

ETA: Link to Ray McDonald. I'm confirming information he has NEVER been suspended. 

Edited May 25, 2015 by AnalyzeAndCritique

[Rick Kitchen]

The Bears have cut Ray McDonald after his latest domestic violence arrest.

[DrSpaceman]

So we are supposed to believe the Pats own report because Lord knows there is no way it is biased, but believe the NFL report is biased and can't be trusted.

We are supposed to believe Brady can't trust the NFL with his texts so he can't fully comply with the investigation, but at the same time we can't punush him unless we have definitive prove he did anything. So every player can just decline to comply with any investigation basically and then they will never be found guilty?

If the NFL and Goodell is as bad as the Patriots make them out to be, it makes no sense why Kraft, who was intrumental in getting Goodell the job in the first place, would have put him in that position.

If Goodell having too much power in these investigation and is so horrible he can't be trusted with these things, then why did Kraft and the NFLPA allow him this power in the last CBA?

You accuse the refs of not keeping track of the balls and blaming the refs when it was the Pats equipment manager that TOOK THE BALLS WITHOUT PERMISSION into an unsupervised area. Likes like blaming the police for a crime you commit, saying they should have prevented it. Refs have hudreds of things to keep track of before a game, I think most assume no one is going to steal the balls before a game and that an NFL team does not need to be treated like a 3rd grader and should be able to be trusted to just leave the balls alone before a game, as they should be.

The lack of trust that supposedly the NFLPA and Kraft has in the league just does not make sense with the focus of the past CBA negotiations.

Come on, blaming the Colts for breaking the rules by checking the air pressure themselves, is that a freakin' joke?

You can say its just "hating" the Pats all you want, but the truth is the Pats cheated, they were caught, now they are making excuse after excuse based on convincing everyone its a witch hunt against the Pats, which makes no sense at all based on past decisions by Kraft himsef and the NFLPA during negotiations with the league. They GAVE Goodell this power and now when it works against Kraft, he doesn't like it. The Colts TOLD THE LEAGUE in an email exactly what would happen with the balls before the game. As I stated before, as far as I am concerned, the simple fact he took those balls without permission into another room, a fact not at all in dispute, makes the Pats guilty. And the fact Brady was worried enough about it to have extensive discussions about it shortly after it happened tells me he had at least something to do with it

This is not a court of law. Other fans aren't dumb. You can try and parse the details and accuse others of hate all you want, but fans in all sports see these same type of excuses the Pats are using again and again and again from accused players over the past decade and in the end, they all turn out guilty and it turns out they are lying.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

So we are supposed to believe the Pats own report because Lord knows there is no way it is biased, but believe the NFL report is biased and can't be trusted.

We are supposed to believe Brady can't trust the NFL with his texts so he can't fully comply with the investigation, but at the same time we can't punush him unless we have definitive prove he did anything. So every player can just decline to comply with any investigation basically and then they will never be found guilty?

If the NFL and Goodell is as bad as the Patriots make them out to be, it makes no sense why Kraft, who was intrumental in getting Goodell the job in the first place, would have put him in that position.

If Goodell having too much power in these investigation and is so horrible he can't be trusted with these things, then why did Kraft and the NFLPA allow him this power in the last CBA?

You accuse the refs of not keeping track of the balls and blaming the refs when it was the Pats equipment manager that TOOK THE BALLS WITHOUT PERMISSION into an unsupervised area. Likes like blaming the police for a crime you commit, saying they should have prevented it. Refs have hudreds of things to keep track of before a game, I think most assume no one is going to steal the balls before a game and that an NFL team does not need to be treated like a 3rd grader and should be able to be trusted to just leave the balls alone before a game, as they should be.

The lack of trust that supposedly the NFLPA and Kraft has in the league just does not make sense with the focus of the past CBA negotiations.

Come on, blaming the Colts for breaking the rules by checking the air pressure themselves, is that a freakin' joke?

You can say its just "hating" the Pats all you want, but the truth is the Pats cheated, they were caught, now they are making excuse after excuse based on convincing everyone its a witch hunt against the Pats, which makes no sense at all based on past decisions by Kraft himsef and the NFLPA during negotiations with the league. They GAVE Goodell this power and now when it works against Kraft, he doesn't like it. The Colts TOLD THE LEAGUE in an email exactly what would happen with the balls before the game. As I stated before, as far as I am concerned, the simple fact he took those balls without permission into another room, a fact not at all in dispute, makes the Pats guilty. And the fact Brady was worried enough about it to have extensive discussions about it shortly after it happened tells me he had at least something to do with it

This is not a court of law. Other fans aren't dumb. You can try and parse the details and accuse others of hate all you want, but fans in all sports see these same type of excuses the Pats are using again and again and again from accused players over the past decade and in the end, they all turn out guilty and it turns out they are lying.

A) I didn't say either report was without its flaws. There is no question the Patriots version is going to lean their way. 

 

B) Yes, Brady can't trust the League with his texts. Any texts he sent to McNally and Jastremski would be on their phones. Evidence proving his guilt would be on their devices and his wouldn't be needed. The League also has no legal jurisdiction to demand his phone. I'm going to call the local authorities and have them pick up the dude who just walked by my house on his phone because I think he's phoning in a bomb threat. They have the jurisdiction to confiscate his phone. If I run out there right now and tackle him, I'd be the fool not him unless it was proven he was doing something wrong. After my fifteen minutes of fame, I'd probably be sued for bodily harm. There is no legal investigation into Brady. Ray McDonald is in trouble with the local authorities. He's been cut and there is a police report regarding the incident. There is a rather large difference. 

 

C) Goodell has failed. The owners and the NFLPA are at fault for allowing Goodell an unrestricted authority which no one person should ever have. He's messed up repeatedly and he's on damage control. The NFLPA is more than likely going to take advantage of Brady's current plight to make changes in the Commish's office. i hate it is at the expense of Brady.

 

D) The refs were advised to be aware of the Colts' accusations. This entire situation could have been avoided if Anderson or someone from the crew heeded the warnings. The reality is 104 seconds isn't an adequate amount of time to pull out 13 footballs, stick a needle in them, and throw them back in the bag especially if you are hoping to hit a target number. It would take an incredible speed and maybe some help. however, I agree he shouldn't have taken the balls if the procedure was to be accompanied by an official.BTW did you catch where it is an officials job to accompany the balls. It might fall into their responsibilities before the game. 

 

E) The Colts broke the rules. I am not blaming. It is a fact stated in the Wells report. You can't pick and choose which part you want to believe. If the Colts were concerned, they should have handed the ball to an official. They didn't. They broke the rules. There is no question. 

 

F) The biggest game of the season was about to be played and Deflategate broke. Any normal person would have conversations with someone when something out of the norm is happening. Brady could have been telling Jastremski to "focus on the game and let the BS play out as it will." Unless someone comes forward who overheard the conversations or Jastremski himself no one can hang their hat on an increase in conversation. There are plenty of people I talk to on a daily basis in person, but when distance or circumstances require it I pick up the phone. 

 

G) So even if McNally didn't do anything to the balls, the Patriots and Brady should be penalized because he took the footballs and used the bathroom? 

 

H) I never said anyone was dumb. I didn't parse details. I pointed out you can be lead one way or another based on your feelings towards the Patriots. There are cold hard facts which indicate rules were broken. The Colts shoved a gauge in a football during halftime - broken rule. There are a set of circumstances (PSI falling and an equipment manger going into the bathroom along with snippets of texts) which can be tied together to incriminate a player. Troy Vincent who handed down the penalty didn't have the authority to do so. If you toss all of this into a blender you get one awful shake. I don't believe this was a sting operation. If it was it was the poorest executed sting operation in history. 

 

The truth is this has gone far beyond ridiculous. You have a team being penalized with circumstantial evidence at best to a degree most would feel is excessive. It's been eight years since Spygate. Time to let it go. You have other teams who have blatantly broken the rules and it has been proven who have gotten the minimum penalty if they were penalized at all. 

 

If we are going to prosecute based on team history of cheating, There are 18 other teams which need to line up and take their lickings before the Patriots. 

 

The reality of sports is when it isn't your team you want the book thrown at them. I talked smack about the Dolphins after the Incognito incident. I shouldn't have because I read the highlights and the headlines instead of breaking down the report. Am I passionate about the Patriots accusations? Most definitely. In a court of law Exponents experts would be chewed up and spit out by science. Wells wouldn't be taken seriously once the defense got a shot at him. He's already held a press conference and showed some of his weakness. I'm adult enough to realize the Patriots and Patriots fans don't have a great reputation. I'm not coming back to argue. I've said my peace and the rest of this will play out in appeals and hopefully we won't be going into court. I'm ready for pre-season.

[Rick Kitchen]

Ray McDonald has been arrested yet again.

[mojoween]

Did Cam Newton really say in his press conference that he was going to mix Lucky Charms and Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

[Moose135]

Yes he did...

[mojoween]

Ew. No Cam. Just...no.

[AimingforYoko]

As a General Mills employee, I heartily endorse this.

[mojoween]

I would too...in separate bowls.

Because they are both delicious on their own and I cannot imagine mixing them together.

[Rick Kitchen]

The Oct. 25 Jacksonville - Buffalo game in London will be streamed on Yahoo!

[mojoween]

I hate Buffalo so much because I love Rex Ryan (and am fond of Matt Simms) and they are making it very hard to continue hating them.

[Danny Franks]

The Oct. 25 Jacksonville - Buffalo game in London will be streamed on Yahoo!

 

Why?

 

Ah, I'm being mean. But honestly, this is the first year I've seriously thought about going down to Wembley for one of the NFL games (still waiting for my Ravens to come over), and when I checked out the website, the only game with any tickets left was this one. I decided not to bother.

[xaxat]

Is it something in the water at the Niners' facility?

 

49ers Lineman Anthony Davis Retires To "Take A Year Or So" Off

[yourpointis]

Eli Manning explains what 'Omaha' really means

 

Now the world will be able to sleep better at night  : ).

[xaxat]

I see the Pats got their rings. I wonder if Putin will extend an invitation to Kraft for another visit to Russia.

Edited June 15, 2015 by xaxat

[yourpointis]

Patriots receive largest Super Bowl rings ever, party accordingly (Videos)

 

205 diamonds!!! Most likely a mortgage payment or two for me. : (  I'm going to blame the alcohol, but those players have no rhythm lol. 

[Crs97]

"How is it that the ultimate prize in the most macho sport ever invented is a piece of jewelry?"

[merylinkid]

Honestly its bad enough that the 2001 rings (I think those were the ones) were so big and gaudy, they had to go and top it.

 

I've been to the Hall of Fame and seen all the rings laid out.   All I can say is "Would someone with taste please start designing these things."

[FuriousStyles]

Here's an owner putting his money to good use....Carolina Panthers Owner donates $100k to victim families of the South Carolina shooting.