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12 minutes ago, meowmommy said:

Von Miller would like a word with you.  But if Peyton had won that year, despite his reanimated corpse being dragged across the finish line by his defense, the scandal would have made Spygate and Deflategate look like a kindergarten antic.

I had forgotten about Von getting the honor that year.  Which is odd because all I remember about that game was Cam getting his ass kicked up and down the field by the defense.  Good times, good times.

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Von also forced a fumble for a TD and had like a million tackles, so that was more than fair. 

QBs are like presidents and the economy. They get more credit for wins, but take more blame for losses. The defense probably should have been MVP,  but there was no one individual that stood out. This may be the fundamental problem with the MVP in and of itself because it has to go to one individual. 

Which is really great for the game imo in terms of executing a game plan and everyone contributing. Similarly, I would suggest that the D line in the second Pats/Giants should have got the MVP over Manning. But that's the way it goes. To be fair, Brady did have a high efficiency and 3 TDs, so it's not like he was just handing the ball off either. Those were some decent numbers. I don't have a problem with him 'managing the game.' That's what you're supposed to do. Aikman says this frequently iirc. He executed the game plan successfully.

I know Mahomes probably doesn't have enough clout yet, but he's not winning much more in terms of titles with Reid there. He just cannot make adjustments on the fly. 

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2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I hated Brady with the Pats and carried it over to the Bucs. But his knowledge, talent and passion for the game are evident, and his leadership had a lot to do with turning a good Bucs team into a great Bucs team. In conclusion, he won me over this season.* But I agree the D won that game and deserved to be MVP. 

Nah, being bathed in Brady's aura is the reason why the defense was able to elevate their game.  Or at least that's the impression I've gotten over the past couple of weeks.

And it would have been a more interesting game if KC had caught a few balls that literally hit the WR in the helmet.  Can't expect Mahomes to wedge the ball into your facemask.

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3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I realize that a defensive player is never going to be awarded SB MVP, but Brady did not deserve that honor last night.  All he did was manage the game.  The Bucs won because their offensive play caller called the right plays, and their defense was on point.  Leonard Fournette did more last night than Brady.

Multiple defensive players have won Super Bowl MVP. Malcolm Smith won it for the Seahawks and Von Miller won it too. That's just off the top of my head.

Brady completed over 70 percent of his passes and threw for three touchdowns. He absolutely deserved the MVP.

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

KC should have gone to more of a hurry up offense to slow down the pass rush.  They were doing no huddle but even that was a slow no huddle.  

Also not sure why they didn't roll out of the pocket more with mahonmes, rush the ball more.  Draw plays should have worked. 

Agree they did not adjust.  And in the red zone total failure.   

Also could have used an extra tight end or rb to block for mahonmes.  

Absolutely. Reid did not adjust to the Tampa Bay pass rush. Run a screen play or a draw play or something. And KC was missing its Pro Bowl tackle, which is a bigger deal than anyone thought it would be. His replacement was Mike Remmer, who gives me nightmares as a Vikings fan. But then, there's a lot that gives me nightmares as a Vikings fan.

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Looking back on it with the benefit of hindsight, I'd say these are the teams who would have won the Super Bowl this year (cap consequences not considered) if Tom Brady had signed with them and brought Gronk and Antonio Brown, icky as he is, in tow:

Definitely Probably:

  • Saints
  • Rams
  • Bills

Possibly:

  • Colts
  • Ravens
  • Browns

Kinda Maybe?

  • Washington Football Team

I'm not going to say Tennessee because their defense blew.

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3 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Multiple defensive players have won Super Bowl MVP. Malcolm Smith won it for the Seahawks and Von Miller won it too. That's just off the top of my head.

Richard Dent (Bears -  Superbowl 20 - DE)

Ray Lewis (Ravens - Superbowl 35 - LB)

Dexter Jackson ( Bucs - Superbowl 37 - safety)

Malcolm Smith (Seahawks - Superbowl 48 - LB)

 

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I think it’s obvious by now that Brady hatred/Jealousy only makes him stronger.   Let it go.  
 

Of all the insane statistics with the man is this nugget:

Since turning 40, Brady has reached 3 Super Bowls, winning 2 , was a SB MVP , was a regular season MVP, and this year including the playoffs threw for 50 TD’s.   

Since he’s playing next year, barring injury, he could conceivably have gotten into the Hall of Fame based on just the 40+ age phase of his career. 

 

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59 minutes ago, caracas1914 said:

I think it’s obvious by now that Brady hatred/Jealousy only makes him stronger.   Let it go.

Never! 🤬

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9 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I hated Brady with the Pats and carried it over to the Bucs. But his knowledge, talent and passion for the game are evident, and his leadership had a lot to do with turning a good Bucs team into a great Bucs team. In conclusion, he won me over this season.* But I agree the D won that game and deserved to be MVP. 

As Buc's fans, Mr. Chat and I didn't like Brady either, but FWIW, it was a case of sour grapes and getting tired of seeing NE in the Super Bowl almost every damn time (or so it seemed!)   I read stuff about him back then and knew that he seemed to be a decent guy, so fast forward to him coming to the Bucs and I decided to put aside my pettiness and give him a chance! 

We had some really good players on our team, but they just couldn't seem to put all the pieces together.  In walks Brady and our guys have a new attitude.  No egos.  They seemed eager to learn from him, and for that we are so grateful to him for taking our Bad News Bears to a championship caliber team!  We knew they had it in them!

I'm okay with him getting the MVP, because without him, we probably wouldn't have had a winning season.  I think the Defense is getting all the praise they deserve on the sports channels today, so I'm sure they know just how valuable their contribution was.  The montage of Barrett chasing Mahomes around the entire game is solid gold!  Those guys are getting a lot of love today!!

And the icing on this cake?  John Lynch finally getting the news that he'll be in the Football Hall of Fame.  We still have our jerseys from those days, so I wore my Lynch, #47, jersey last night.  Mr. Chat wore his #63 (Leroy Selmon) jersey.   Not to gloat, it just feels so nice to finally have something good to talk about with the Bucs!  We feel for the other teams who are struggling.  We have felt your pain for much too long!

 

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7 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Multiple defensive players have won Super Bowl MVP. Malcolm Smith won it for the Seahawks and Von Miller won it too. That's just off the top of my head.

And I admit I'm old enough to have seen the game, but Chuck Howley was the first defensive player to win the SB MVP, for SB V, and remains the only MVP ever named from the losing team. 

Only makes sense, considering that game went down in history as the Blunder Bowl for its sheer awfulness.

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2 hours ago, meowmommy said:

And I admit I'm old enough to have seen the game, but Chuck Howley was the first defensive player to win the SB MVP, for SB V, and remains the only MVP ever named from the losing team. 

Only makes sense, considering that game went down in history as the Blunder Bowl for its sheer awfulness.

I probably would of enjoyed that Blunder Bowl way more than last night's game. 

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I had no idea that Byron Leftwich was the OC for the Bucs. I didn’t recognize him on the sidelines because of his mask and I refused to watch the Bucs play this season. I always liked him on the Jags so glad he is getting his due for his play calling.  Too bad he never got an interviews for HC but hopefully now he’s on a few teams’ radar. Same with Todd Bowles whose game plan was masterful. I’m sure he was overlooked since he wasn’t successful for the Jets but he seems like a perfect DC.

Edited by twoods
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The KeyShawn, JWill and Zubin Show was rather amusing today.

They spent a five minute segment breaking down the ages of the QB’s in the AFC and talking about how that is the future of the league.

Hmm.  Who won the Super Bowl?  The NFC.  How old was the MVP?  43.

I totally get what they are saying, but water always finds its level.  For some reason greybeards come out on top more often than not, especially in the NFC.

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Interesting article on the penalities in the Super Bowl:

https://www.si.com/nfl/talkoffame/nfl/the-super-bowl-flag-fest

KC should have been prepared for this and adjusted accordingly.   The NFL should also be consistent across crews about what gets called.   But since its known it is not, teams need to be aware of the propensities of different refs and adjust accordingly.   This is another example of KC's failure to adapt when they needed to most.

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Thank you, Marty for some great Cleveland football years.  Thank you for introducing me to the KC Chiefs.  I'm glad you are not suffering anymore.

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I'm watching Vikings vs. Packers on Game Pass, 2009, first Favre vs. Rodgers matchup. Antoine Winfield Sr. just intercepted a Rodgers pass. Like father, like son, I guess.

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1 hour ago, mojoween said:

Rest in Peace, Mr. Schottenheimer.

Some of my favorite Browns' memories are of those teams in the late 80's: Bernie, Mack and Byner, Dixon and Minnifield, Bob Golic.  We had so dam* much fun with that team.  I saw some amazing football, I even got to go to some great games.  Even though I was sitting in the stands with tears in my eyes at the end of the game; I will always be grateful to have seen The Drive in person.  God bless Marty Schottenheimer and his family.

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They can change it all they want, but the internet has made sure everyone saw it anyways.

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3 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

That was completely unnecessary.  To distill a terrific coach's career into a single phrase dissing his achievements is a low blow.  Not too many coaches had the record that Marty did and not too many coaches would've been able to take losing franchises and turn them into winners time after time like he did.

Edited by doodlebug
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On 2/8/2021 at 1:49 PM, Fukui San said:

Looking back on it with the benefit of hindsight, I'd say these are the teams who would have won the Super Bowl this year (cap consequences not considered) if Tom Brady had signed with them and brought Gronk and Antonio Brown, icky as he is, in tow:

Definitely Probably:

  • Saints
  • Rams
  • Bills

Possibly:

  • Colts
  • Ravens
  • Browns

Kinda Maybe?

  • Washington Football Team

I'm not going to say Tennessee because their defense blew.

How many QBs if you put them on tampa this year would have won a superbowl?  

Mahonmes, brees, rodgers, wilson, dak prescott, josh allen, roethlisberger, deshaun watson, probably others are all reasonable arguments. 

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1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

How many QBs if you put them on tampa this year would have won a superbowl?  

Mahonmes, brees, rodgers, wilson, dak prescott, josh allen, roethlisberger, deshaun watson, probably others are all reasonable arguments. 

This is the thing. Brady deserves a lot of credit for his longevity and his ability to be successful with a new team so quickly (particularly his ability to see which team was going to offer him the best chance to cement his legacy), after an entire career in one place, but that Bucs team was set up to win and win now.

They bet it all on this year and got hot just at the right time. Particularly the defence, which was the unit that led them through the playoffs and the Super Bowl.

But whatever, people can say he's the greatest player ever because of his rings and there's no real argument against that. Other than the fact that this is a team sport and no player has ever won a Super Bowl on his own, while plenty of truly great players have never won any.

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1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

How many QBs if you put them on tampa this year would have won a superbowl?  

Mahonmes, brees, rodgers, wilson, dak prescott, josh allen, roethlisberger, deshaun watson, probably others are all reasonable arguments. 

I would argue with several of these. Brees was a shell of himself by the end of the season—I highly doubt he would have taken the Bucs all the way. Ditto Roethlisberger, who is also limited at this stage of his career. I think Josh Allen is quite talented but he still does too much dumb shit (looking at you, 30-yard sacks) for me to believe in him until he shows that he has conquered those tendencies; he also has to maintain his high level of play for another few seasons. Not sold on Dak either, though I’d believe more in him than the other three I just named.

So I would say Mahomes probably, maybe Rodgers (but he can’t get past the NFC title game—I swear it’s a mental thing for him/the Packers now), maybe Wilson, and maybe Watson. At most. And none of them would have brought the intangibles that Brady brought, which Arians and multiple Bucs have stated multiple times were key to the team’s title run.

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5 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

And none of them would have brought the intangibles that Brady brought, which Arians and multiple Bucs have stated multiple times were key to the team’s title run.

Nicely stated.  I like seeing the respect that the players have for Brady and vice versa.  One of the players said that any one of them can walk up to Tom and ask a question.  He is willing to help them in any way that he can.  I admire that they all put any egos aside and came together for the benefit of the team.  I had really grown tired of the NFL over the years, but this feel-good story about a team that can persevere and overcome the odds gives me hope again!  Not that we ever jumped off of the Buc's bandwagon, but it was really tough to get through the losing seasons, always saying at the end of each one "maybe next year," only to have our hopes continually dashed.  Thanks Tom for rescuing our Bucs!!

Hearing those cannons kaboom after the game was fantastic!  😉  

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1 hour ago, stealinghome said:

I would argue with several of these. Brees was a shell of himself by the end of the season—I highly doubt he would have taken the Bucs all the way. Ditto Roethlisberger, who is also limited at this stage of his career. I think Josh Allen is quite talented but he still does too much dumb shit (looking at you, 30-yard sacks) for me to believe in him until he shows that he has conquered those tendencies; he also has to maintain his high level of play for another few seasons. Not sold on Dak either, though I’d believe more in him than the other three I just named.

So I would say Mahomes probably, maybe Rodgers (but he can’t get past the NFC title game—I swear it’s a mental thing for him/the Packers now), maybe Wilson, and maybe Watson. At most. And none of them would have brought the intangibles that Brady brought, which Arians and multiple Bucs have stated multiple times were key to the team’s title run.

I mean that's your opinion but my point being it's just as arguable about brady going to other teams besides tampa and winning, as was brought up before.  It's all speculation. 

 

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10 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I mean that's your opinion but my point being it's just as arguable about brady going to other teams besides tampa and winning, as was brought up before.  It's all speculation. 

FWIW, Bruce Arians said that when he was trying to sell Tom on coming to Tampa Bay with the usual things about Florida (climate, taxes, etc.), Tom brushed that aside and started naming off the guys on the team and how good they were.  That's what mattered to him.  It would've been interesting to hear all of those conversations!  He probably could've elevated just about any other team he went to, but I'm glad he chose the Bucs!  I also wonder if any of the other teams he was considering would've been as receptive to him as the Buc's players were.  Not all seasoned players would've been so humble (or so I think!)  There's a lot of doofuses in the NFL.  

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Question for this who might know (LT’s debut was five years before I understood football) but is the sack statistic a result of his awesomeness?

And has anyone ever watched tape to get his accurate sack number?

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14 hours ago, ChitChat said:

FWIW, Bruce Arians said that when he was trying to sell Tom on coming to Tampa Bay with the usual things about Florida (climate, taxes, etc.), Tom brushed that aside and started naming off the guys on the team and how good they were.  That's what mattered to him.  It would've been interesting to hear all of those conversations!  He probably could've elevated just about any other team he went to, but I'm glad he chose the Bucs!  I also wonder if any of the other teams he was considering would've been as receptive to him as the Buc's players were.  Not all seasoned players would've been so humble (or so I think!)  There's a lot of doofuses in the NFL.  

I don't know what any of that has to do with the argument being made. 

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6 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

I guess Tom Brady thought he was Gronkowski:

 

What happens when you try a strawberry for the first time. 

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10 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I don't know what any of that has to do with the argument being made. 

Sorry, I think I quoted the wrong person.  I was referring to the argument about which other teams Brady could've won with had he chosen a different one.  From his interviews, it looks like he was really impressed with the guys on the Buc's team, so I'm guessing he thought that he had the best chance with them, given their talent.  Didn't he also say that he wanted to stay on the East coast?  That narrowed down his choices too.  As a Buc's fan, I'm glad that he didn't go to the Saints!  

FWIW, I thought the Buc's behavior during the boat parade was embarrassing.  C'mon guys!  Show some class.  The kids should've been in life jackets.  The guys shouldn't have been getting drunk in front of them.  Brady throwing the Lombardi Trophy was in bad taste, in my humble opinion.  I hope that was a replica trophy!  

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If Brady threw the trophy to the bottom of the sea, would the NFL have given Tampa another one?

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The NFL would probably thank Brady for getting rid of an old trophy.

In all seriousness though, they'd have found a way to spin it and try to make Brady sound even more awesome.  Lots of players have been tempted to toss the trophy but only Tom had the guts to do it!

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6 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

The NFL would probably thank Brady for getting rid of an old trophy.

Yeah, I vote for a new design.  However, they tried that with college football and I think that trophy is fugly.  I like the Waterford Crystal one much better.  Sometimes when they "new and improve" things, they actually make it worse.  😉  

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2 hours ago, Haleth said:

Was it Gronk who broke one a couple years ago?

He dented it while using it to hit a baseball.  Yikes! 

Between that and tossing the trophy from boat to boat, I find both a very disrespectful thing to do.  

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And the Texans disaster continues.    J.J. Watt has been outspoken about the "changes" being made in Houston.   This was only a matter of time.   But you notice that DeShaun wants out and they are holding him tight.   I can see Watson retiring rather than continue at that dumpster fire.   Houston is making DETROIT look like a functional organization.

I seriously want to know what Easterby has on McNair that he has all this power.

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35 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

I seriously want to know what Easterby has on McNair that he has all this power.

Someday, someone is going to write a tell-all book on what is happening in Houston behind the scenes right now and it's going to be wild. Far weirder than any of us can imagine.

I've actually started to wonder whether Easterby contributed to the breakdown of Kraft/Brady/Belichick in New England, too. Not that some of the fault lines in those relationships haven't been reported on already, of course, but Easterby arrived in New England not long before things started to go south, so one wonders....

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I've never understood the situation with Urban Meyer.  I thought that he got out of football/coaching because of his heart issues.  What gives?

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5 hours ago, ChitChat said:

I've never understood the situation with Urban Meyer.  I thought that he got out of football/coaching because of his heart issues.  What gives?

Haven't his health problems coincided with his school becoming embroiled in controversy? 

*

Ma'am, you are not going to win a settlement for emotional distress. You're not even going to win the court of public opinion...

 

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7 hours ago, Dejana said:

Ma'am, you are not going to win a settlement for emotional distress. You're not even going to win the court of public opinion...

Yeah, she's going to be pilloried as an overly sensitive crybaby.  Being annoyed is fine but losing sleep?  Only if the trophy held your dad's ashes.

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22 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I see that Urban Meyer is off to a fine start

Someone mentioned this before but it's yet another example of how cronyism and nepotism (along with racism) is such a huge problem with the coaching ranks.  "I knew the guy for 20 years" shouldn't be the main reason why someone gets hired.

"He's a good guy" is really the only qualification someone needs to be a coach, scout or front office guy in the NFL. It's quite ridiculous how openly nepotistic the league is. Sons working for their dads, nephews working for their uncles, college buddies giving each other a break.

John Harbaugh is particularly bad for this, with a lot of his position coaching hires being guys he's worked with before, or who he feels he owes for some reason. Might explain the utter inability of the Ravens to develop any wide receivers. But the most recent WR coach Harbs hired because he was a buddy is now a head coach, because God told Jack Easterby that he's the guy, or something.

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