NFL Thread

[mojoween]

I mean, I TOLD them not to hire McAdoo and they did it anyways.  

Edited January 23, 2018 by mojoween

[ganesh]

I'm not sure most owners are truly interested in investing strongly enough to put a winning staff and team together as opposed to doing just enough to go 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 every year to keep the fan base into it, and maybe every other year or so, you get a few lucky bounces and get into the playoffs, maybe even get a bye. 

How many times are coaches just recycled? Oh, look, there's Norv Turner again! He's going to bring in some fresh ideas based on his history of doing the same thing all the time. 

[DrSpaceman73]

I probably am one of the few that gets excited about the Superbowl because the NFL network starts showing replays, not full ones but summaries at least, of old Superbowls for a week. 

Also Chris Russo does his impossibly hard superbowl trivia on the radio, giving away tickets to the game for those who win.  All it takes is 5 impossible to answer questions. 

[Fukui San]

23 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I'm not sure most owners are truly interested in investing strongly enough to put a winning staff and team together as opposed to doing just enough to go 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 every year to keep the fan base into it, and maybe every other year or so, you get a few lucky bounces and get into the playoffs, maybe even get a bye. 

How many times are coaches just recycled? Oh, look, there's Norv Turner again! He's going to bring in some fresh ideas based on his history of doing the same thing all the time. 

It's remarkable how many owners are active detriments to their team's success. For example, both New York teams! Yes, we want you for a coach! But you're totally going to have Eli Manning the starter for the foreseeable future, right? Despite the fact that we have the #2 overall pick? Yes, you're our pick for General Manager! You must retain Rex Ryan as coach. And hey, we have to sign Darelle Revis to a huge multiyear contract. That's OK with you, right? Maybe it shouldn't be such a surprise, though. Football is a meritocracy everywhere except for the owners' ranks.

So some teams are destined to keep sucking no matter how many coaches they cycle through. I'm looking at you, Cleveland and Cincinnati! Maybe occasionally you can observe an owner learn something. SF was the ultimate tire fire a year ago. But then they hired Kyle Shanahan, and they had to give him a ridiculously long contract in order to ensure him that the team wasn't going to fire him after a year or two. Then they've seemingly left him alone.

[Fukui San]

I think the craziest coaching move of this offseason is Pete Carroll firing everybody and now having Ken Norton Jr and Brian Schottenheimer as his coordinators. I know you need a change and all, but wow.

[xaxat]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I'm not sure most owners are truly interested in investing strongly enough to put a winning staff and team together as opposed to doing just enough to go 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 every year to keep the fan base into it, and maybe every other year or so, you get a few lucky bounces and get into the playoffs, maybe even get a bye. 

 

20 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

It's remarkable how many owners are active detriments to their team's success.

I think it's more ego and meddling than a disinterest in winning. Exhibit A-B-C Jerry Jones. 

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Also Chris Russo does his impossibly hard superbowl trivia on the radio, giving away tickets to the game for those who win.  All it takes is 5 impossible to answer questions. 

I remember when he did this with Francesca! Does he still dress up as the Marquis and does he do the audio questions? Those were always the hardest and made the contest Googleproof. 

[DrSpaceman73]

23 minutes ago, xaxat said:

 

I think it's more ego and meddling than a disinterest in winning. Exhibit A-B-C Jerry Jones. 

I remember when he did this with Francesca! Does he still dress up as the Marquis and does he do the audio questions? Those were always the hardest and made the contest Googleproof. 

I don't know if he dresses up, I just listen to him

But yes he still does the audio questions, those are the hardest. 

Literally will play any sound bite or clip and say "Who is this?"  Could be anyone in the history of the SB

I know why he does it, as you say that is not something you can just google, at least quickly.  I know fans listen and he reuses clips, so you can figure it out, but you hear it one time and you don't know it. 

Also lots of cross reference questions that you just can't "google", like : Name the colleges that have produced both a SB winning QB and a US president.  There are 4, I believe.  3 you can come up with pretty easily with some thought, one is an obscure presidential fact. 

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Fukui San said:

It's remarkable how many owners are active detriments to their team's success. 

Money and ego is a hell of a combination.

[topanga]

9 hours ago, merylinkid said:

There's a very simple solution to not having the Patriots in the Super Bowl every year -- teams beat then during the season.    Belichek exploits the rule book.   The same rule book available to every single coach.    He uses his players to their best advantage.   Which every other coach can do rather than force players into some scheme.   He studies film incessentantly to find teams weaknesses.   The same film available to every other coach.   

I hear you, but... while I do think the Patriots are cheaters and have more close calls go their way than other teams do, I still think the team has a ton of talent. And Belkchek knows how to develop and coach that talent. 

My overarching point was that it’s boring to see the Patriots in the SB again. Watching Jacksonville in the SB would have been a refreshing Cinderella story.

This is very similar to the way people loudly declared that women’s tennis was getting boring when Venus and/or Serena Williams was in almost every Grand Slam final. Or in baseball when people got tired of seeing the Yankees in the World Series almost every year. 

[MarkHB]

4 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Name the colleges that have produced both a SB winning QB and a US president.  There are 4, I believe.  3 you can come up with pretty easily with some thought, one is an obscure presidential fact. 

Now I want to play. First one is easy : Annapolis.  Next one I think is Michigan but I'm not sure if Ford actually went to M. State.

[mojoween]

They are doing the Pro Bowl skills competition again this year - including dodgeball! - and I am so there for it.

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, Fukui San said:

It's remarkable how many owners are active detriments to their team's success.

Off the top of my head, it seems like all you need is to draft a superstar QB and just get a coach in there that knows how to support his talent. There's rare occasions where the dominant defense wins, but that tends to take a few years to coalesce and is only a one year shot. 

Everything else aside, Kap and Harbaugh were exceptional together. Why not just invest around that core? When you go back to all the great teams, it's always coach/QB. I know it's hard to get the right QB and the right coach, but it's not that complicated either. Granted, I think because there's so many teams, there's a lot that have starting QBs that are really just backups. The formula, however, I think is critical. 

6 hours ago, xaxat said:

I think it's more ego and meddling than a disinterest in winning. Exhibit A-B-C Jerry Jones. 

He's the exception to the rule and his own worst enemy. I don't doubt that Jones is one of the few owners that is really committed to winning ever year, but he's committed to him being the guy that gets them winning and that's his flaw. 

2 hours ago, topanga said:

I hear you, but... while I do think the Patriots are cheaters and have more close calls go their way than other teams do,

 I still think the team has a ton of talent. And Belkchek knows how to develop and coach that talent. 

My overarching point was that it’s boring to see the Patriots in the SB again. Watching Jacksonville in the SB would have been a refreshing Cinderella story.

This is very similar to the way people loudly declared that women’s tennis was getting boring when Venus and/or Serena Williams was in almost every Grand Slam final. Or in baseball when people got tired of seeing the Yankees in the World Series almost every year. 

It's too easy to write the team off as cheaters. Although, yes, I'm sure they do. I think the other teams are ticked because they cheat so much better than anyone else cheats. So you know that going in. You have to play near perfect to beat the Pats. You had to play perfect to beat Montana, Young, Aikman, Starr, and so on. Did they have close calls go their way? Irvin was notorious for never getting offensive interference calls. 

The ironic thing this time around, as much as lots of people are saying the refs helped the Pats win, the two pass interference calls were legit, the fumble was actually a bad call, arguably. And, coming out of a time out, the Jags had a false start penalty. Or could complete a pass in the 4th quarter. It still comes down to executing. 

I just don't agree that it's boring to see the Pats in the SB again, and I think it's demonstrably false in the sense that it's not generally interesting for the public at large. For one, the ratings aren't going to suffer which I don't think anyone would disagree with, and for the other, in the SB history of the league, it's been largely about dynasties and which teams could dethrone them. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by ganesh

[Kip Hackman]

9 hours ago, ganesh said:

in the SB history of the league, it's been largely about dynasties and which teams could dethrone them. 

Four or five year dynasties. This has been going on for 18 years. For me, the Pats in the SB is as uninteresting as Alabama in the national championship game. But I can only speak for myself.

[DrSpaceman73]

12 hours ago, MarkHB said:

Now I want to play. First one is easy : Annapolis.  Next one I think is Michigan but I'm not sure if Ford actually went to M. State.

You are right on those two.  Anapolis Naval academy - Roger Staubach and Jimmy Carter

Michigan - Brady (I think he is the only SB winner from their) and Ford

One of the other two produced one president and two SB winning QBs that won 4 total, prominent west coast school. 

The other is a smaller school and the most recent addition to the group. 

[MarkHB]

20 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

One of the other two produced one president and two SB winning QBs that won 4 total, prominent west coast school. 

I went looking at the list of winning QB's last night (but not the Presidential ones) and based on this I'm guessing Stanford (I remember years ago, back near college, talking to a friend from the Bay Area and saying that "all the Bronco's have is the kid from Stanford"... that being a rookie John Elway.)  No idea which President went there, though.

And a look at Trump's wiki bio mentions that he started at Fordham, although he left for Penn.  Is that the fourth?  I could see them producing a SB QB back in the day.

[mojoween]

1 hour ago, Kip Hackman said:

Four or five year dynasties. This has been going on for 18 years. For me, the Pats in the SB is as uninteresting as Alabama in the national championship game. But I can only speak for myself.

No you can speak for me too!

So Bob Costas is apparently skipping the Super Bowl because he doesn’t like football any more or what it entails for the players.  Interesting to see where the sport goes from here.

[galaxygirl76]

2 hours ago, MarkHB said:

I went looking at the list of winning QB's last night (but not the Presidential ones) and based on this I'm guessing Stanford (I remember years ago, back near college, talking to a friend from the Bay Area and saying that "all the Bronco's have is the kid from Stanford"... that being a rookie John Elway.)  No idea which President went there, though.

And a look at Trump's wiki bio mentions that he started at Fordham, although he left for Penn.  Is that the fourth?  I could see them producing a SB QB back in the day.

Hoover went to Stanford. The other being a smaller school, Roethlisburger maybe? I remember he went to a smaller school but can't remember which.

[mojoween]

Roethlisberger went to either Miami (OH) or Ohio University I think.

[MarkHB]

Bingo... Miami of Ohio is the Alma mater of both Big Ben and Benjamin Harrison (the guy who has Grover Cleveland staring at him from both sides in photo lists of the Presidents). I knew I'd never get it once we got to the 19th century.

[caracas1914]

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

You are right on those two.  Anapolis Naval academy - Roger Staubach and Jimmy Carter

Michigan - Brady (I think he is the only SB winner from their) and Ford

One of the other two produced one president and two SB winning QBs that won 4 total, prominent west coast school. 

The other is a smaller school and the most recent addition to the group. 

Being from Northern Cal , that prominent west coast school has to be Stanford, because Herbert Hoover went to school there.  They even have a conservative think tank, the Hoover Institute, based there.  Jim Plunkett won the SB , he went to Stanford,  and I’m thinking along  with Roger Staubach he also won the Heisman.

 

So to make the trivia even more selective, Anapolis and Stanford produced Heisman winner, SB winner and a President.

[DrSpaceman73]

Standford and Miami of Ohio are the other two.  Stanford had both Elway and Plunkett, plus Hoover

Miami of Ohio, Roethlisberger and Benjamin Harrison

Suprisingly, to me at least, Notre Dame has never produced a US president.  That was one of my initial guesses. 

At least not a real president  I think fictional president Bartlett on the West Wing went there.  I only saw a handful of episodes of that show though

[DrSpaceman73]

53 minutes ago, caracas1914 said:

Being from Northern Cal , that prominent west coast school has to be Stanford, because Herbert Hoover went to school there.  They even have a conservative think tank, the Hoover Institute, based there.  Jim Plunkett won the SB , he went to Stanford,  and I’m thinking along  with Roger Staubach he also won the Heisman.

 

So to make the trivia even more selective, Anapolis and Stanford produced Heisman winner, SB winner and a President.

The Heisman winner/SB winning QB and, related, college national champion as a starter and Superbowl champion at QB lists are surprisingly short as well.  Its only a few of each.  I looked it up at one time and now don't recall how many.  Staubach is one for Heisman and SB champions.  Brady was a on a national title team at Michigan, but he was not the starter that year.  It was Brian Griese.  I believe Bart Starr and/or Namath won titles at Alabama and in the pros. 

In fact not just at QB, but Heisman winners at any position who win a SB, its not a large number. 

Its nice to ask whenever someone uses the Heisman or college championship to prop up someone's draft status.  The correlation is low between those awards and SB championships. 

Cam Newton, had the Panthers won the SB a few years back, I think would have been the first one to accomplish all 3 as QB. 

And there are odd ones like Peyton Manning :  Came in second in the Heisman, Tenn won a title with tee Martin AFTER he graduated. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by DrSpaceman73

[galaxygirl76]

9 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

At least not a real president  I think fictional president Bartlett on the West Wing went there.  I only saw a handful of episodes of that show though

He did and he was quite proud of that fact.

[bosawks]

22 hours ago, Fukui San said:

I think the craziest coaching move of this offseason is Pete Carroll firing everybody and now having Ken Norton Jr and Brian Schottenheimer as his coordinators. I know you need a change and all, but wow.

At the very least it will give someone new for Richard Sherman to feud with..........

[merylinkid]

I have to go back and check but was Wilks the only minority Head Coach hire this year?   If so, the Rooney Rule is dead, buried and pparently unmourned by the owners.   The Raiders were the nail in the coffin with the "we hired him before we fired the last guy so we didn't have interview anyone."   The WHOLE POINT of the Rooney Rule is to at least get the minority coaches into the interview room.   As Al Davis said "Talk to everyone.   You learn something from every interview."   If coaches aren't even getting into the interview room no one knows if they will have any good ideas for a team or not.  

[Constantinople]

On 1/22/2018 at 3:04 PM, xaxat said:

The Patriots (10) and the Steelers (8) will have represented the AFC in a bit over a third of the 52 Super Bowls played. 

The Broncos have also played in 8, so the Patriots, Broncos and Steelers have represented the AFC in exactly half of the 52 Super Bowls.

[Silver Raven]

3 hours ago, bosawks said:

At the very least it will give someone new for Richard Sherman to feud with..........

As if he needed any new material.

[mojoween]

I do have to admit, and once I say this I’m going to go throw up the breakfast that I haven’t eaten yet, that it is amazing that the Patriots have been able to be this consistent in the age of free agency.

Although, now that I think about it, that means they are probably most definitely cheaters.

[NUguy514]

Every NFL team cheats.

[ganesh]

I have no doubt. That's why I don't buy 'the Pats cheat' as an argument. For one, so? For the other, it's been 18 years of sustained success. If that's singularly attributed to cheating, then they're the greatest criminal organization of all time. 

[twoods]

30 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

Every NFL team cheats.

The Browns are pretty bad at it, as are the Bills. I guess everyone needs to learn how the Pats are so good at it. 

[Kip Hackman]

Prediction: The Pats will win the SB in a close game, and Eagles fans will ask, "How the hell did we not win that?"

Just like the Ram fans, Panther fans, Seahawk fans, and Falcon fans before them.

[caracas1914]

I suppose the question is once again will the Patriots not cover the spread in the Super Bowl.   They never have as favorites.

Which I suppose the other question is will Nick Foles wake up that morning and realize he’s playing in the Super Bowl.

[nowandlater]

On 1/23/2018 at 1:28 PM, DrSpaceman73 said:

.  I know fans listen and he reuses clips, so you can figure it out, but you hear it one time and you don't know it. 

Also lots of cross reference questions that you just can't "google", like : Name the colleges that have produced both a SB winning QB and a US president.  There are 4, I believe.  3 you can come up with pretty easily with some thought, one is an obscure presidential fact. 

 

When I first saw that piece of trivia, I looked up how many schools have had both a United States Supreme Court Chief Justice and a Super Bowl-winning QB.

There have been 17 Supreme Court chief justices and 31 Super Bowl-winning QBs.

And I discovered that only two schools have had both a chief justice and a Super Bowl-winning QB, and those schools are rivals.

Cal: Chief Justice Earl Warren and Aaron Rodgers

Stanford: Chief Justice William Rehnquist and John Elway/Jim Plunkett.

[xaxat]

What NFL team produced a Supreme Court Justice and a Super Bowl winning QB?

[nowandlater]

6 hours ago, xaxat said:

What NFL team produced a Supreme Court Justice and a Super Bowl winning QB?

Oh, wow, that's a good piece of trivia to know.

And he was appointed by JFK! (JFK, who spoke at Cal's football stadium during his presidency, had several people with Cal degrees in his administration, including his CIA chief, his secretary of defense and secretary of state. Also, he attended the Cal-Stanford Big Game in Berkeley in fall 1940 while he was auditing classes at Stanford.)

The thing is you rarely see people with non-Ivy League degrees become president or a member of the Supreme Court.*  So it's unlikely you'll see those trivia items be expanded -- unless Ryan Fitzpatrick leads the Bucs to the Super Bowl championship.

(*The last person without an Ivy League degree to be appointed to the Supreme Court was Sandra Day O'Connor, who went to Stanford. The last person without an Ivy League degree to serve as president was Reagan.)

[mojoween]

I am disappointed in you, NFC.

I was amused that Lisa Salter from ESPN was trying to interview Patrick Peterson and one of the other players ran up and interrupted him which then turned into “2011 was the best draft everrrrrr!!!!1!!!.”

So I looked it up.  And damn, that WAS a great draft class.

[xaxat]

Been fighting through a bout of insomnia recently and with the end of the Australian Open I was desperate for some sports related TV last night. I ended up watching the Kevin Costner movie Draft Day. It was almost a hate watch as I kept yelling "Even I know that's not how things work in the NFL!" 

But the thing that made me laugh hardest was the whole conversation about "character."

"Did his team mates go to his birthday party?"

"He pushed the official! That's bad."

"He got into a fight! Does that mean he is a bad guy?

(Ray Lewis cameo - record scratch sound)

"Did he lie about the hundred dollar bill?"

[Jx223]

According to Ian Rapoport on Twitter, the Chiefs have decided to trade Alex Smith to Washington. And according to ESPN and other sources Alex has signed a four year deal with Washington, something that Kirk couldn't get done. I wonder where Kirk Cousins may end up now. I could see him maybe going somewhere like the Broncos.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22268637/kansas-city-chiefs-trade-quarterback-alex-smith-washington-redskins

Edited January 31, 2018 by Jx223

[Fukui San]

Broncos? Jets? Bills? Jags?

I made an attempt to predict who would be QB for every team. I had Smith going to the Jags and Cousins going to the Jets. Already wrong!

[merylinkid]

I think the market for Cousins will not be as exciting as some people think.    This is one of those situations where you go "wait, why is everyone so excited about this guy again?" and question the excitement.    But someone will overpay him based on the hype.   After all if Osweiler can get multiple millions, surely Cousin can be worse a few million.

[Ohwell]

I'm glad Kirk Cousins is gone from my team and I'm looking forward to seeing what Alex Smith can do.  I think we Redskins fans got tired of all the "will they franchise Kirk, or won't they?" talk.  He was a good quarterback, but there was something dull and unexciting about him.

So yeah,  'bye Kirk.   

[Fukui San]

3 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I'm glad Kirk Cousins is gone from my team and I'm looking forward to seeing what Alex Smith can do.  I think we Redskins fans got tired of all the "will they franchise Kirk, or won't they?" talk.  He was a good quarterback, but there was something dull and unexciting about him.

So yeah,  'bye Kirk.   

So I'll put you down for "You don't like that". 

[Ohwell]

8 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

So I'll put you down for "You don't like that". 

Yup. ; )

[basiltherat]

Why would the Jags want Cousins over Bortles?  Isn't Kirk famous for throwing interceptions?  Bortles at least got further in the playoffs and, if the Jags weren't against the Pats, might have made it to the Super Bowl.

Also wondering where the Minneapolis Three will go.  Also, we in Chicago are quite willing to send Mike Glennon to anywhere that may want him, because he is so, so gone.

What will happen to Nick Foles after the SB?  If he wins it, he will get a great payday somewhere!  If he loses in a close one, I think he will still get a relatively good payday.  Just standing up against the Pats is worth a couple extra million.

[Ohwell]

51 minutes ago, basiltherat said:

Isn't Kirk famous for throwing interceptions? 

Well, yeah, there's that little thingy.  I said he was "good" because he wasn't the worst qb we've ever had, so I guess I'd call it damning with faint praise. ; )

[Fukui San]

Bortles is so limited as a passer that one theory is that the Jags literally ran out of plays that they felt comfortable with him executing against the Patriots. Hence the offense stalling in the fourth. 

56 minutes ago, basiltherat said:

Why would the Jags want Cousins over Bortles?  Isn't Kirk famous for throwing interceptions?  Bortles at least got further in the playoffs and, if the Jags weren't against the Pats, might have made it to the Super Bowl.

[xaxat]

1 hour ago, basiltherat said:

What will happen to Nick Foles after the SB?  If he wins it, he will get a great payday somewhere! 

He still has a year left on his contract. Unless someone is willing to trade for him he goes back to the bench.

[Fukui San]

I think there are a lot of QBs who will come into the league next year, some who will come back, and some who will ascend from backupdom for the first time, so while there are a lot of teams that need QBs there is actually a supply of bodies this year. There seem to be four or five QBs that seem to be first round worthy. Garrapolo definitely and McCarron possibly are poised to be full time starters, Mahomes will be promoted ready or not. The three Minnesota QBs are available and starting caliber-worthy... ish. Injured QBs Luck, Rodgers, Tannehill and Watson should come back (cross your fingers for Luck). So that could squeeze out the bottom tier of 2017 starters like Brissette, McCown, Cutler, Kizer, and Osweiler.

[mojoween]

I heard a rumor the Browns were trying to get Smith first and just...didn’t.  Poor Browns.