NFL Thread

[ganesh]

58 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

But I don't think he should be suspended.   He's generally a good player and he just lost it for a moment.   And he apologized already.   

I think the larger context of the fight last week and then this changes things. Then again, Crabtree got a game suspension for fighting, so is Gronk's hit equivalent?

Why don't they just do something like yellow and red cards in soccer? It would be so much easier. 

[Carey]

IMO, it's 50/50 for Gronk.  He doesn't have (much of) a history.  Despite the emotions, it just looked very bad and thus will be difficult for the league to give him a pass.  The guy got concussed; otherwise, I think Gronk easily avoids a suspension.  I think they'll say it's a 2 game penalty and then go down to one (like last week with Crabtree & Talib)

Edited December 4, 2017 by Carey

[Moose135]

6 minutes ago, Carey said:

I wonder if Mara was classy and told him or if it was a Kiffin/Bielema method where it was made official when Ben tried to enter the Giants facility but couldn't because his keycard didn't work

Considering Mac made the comment following Sunday's loss "I'm going to coach this team as long as my key card works" that might have been fitting, reports out of Giant Land this morning had John Mara, Reese, McAdoo, and DC Steve Spagnuolo in meetings prior to the announcement.  Spagnuolo has been named interim head coach, Kevin Abrams has been named interim GM.

[mojoween]

I hope Spags does better this time than the last time he was a HC.  I was really rooting for him and...it didn’t go so well.

But he has TONS of goodwill because I will elevate him after SB XLII FOREVER.

Edited December 4, 2017 by mojoween

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, mojoween said:

I hope Spags does better this time than the last time he was a HC.  I was really rooting for him and...it didn’t go so well.

Oh jeez, that was second-hand embarrassing.  I am a huge cheerleader for Spagnuolo as Defensive Coordinator, and was so sad to lose him in that position, but wished him well and rooted for him as head coach.  And, ouch. 

Fucking McAdoo.  Thank all that is good he and Reese are gone, but if it had happened a week sooner Eli's streak would be intact (and a whole extra layer of disgruntlement among players would have been avoided).

And, yeah, I'd be fine with a keycard disabling scenario, because I resent him that much.  It's like with all the chatter about how awful it was Pat Haden fired Lane Kiffin at the airport, and all I had to say in response was that if I were USC's Athletic Director, I'd have had him summarily executed on the sideline.  At halftime.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Bastet

[Silver Raven]

Gronk has been suspended for one game.

[merylinkid]

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think the larger context of the fight last week and then this changes things. Then again, Crabtree got a game suspension for fighting, so is Gronk's hit equivalent?

Why don't they just do something like yellow and red cards in soccer? It would be so much easier. 

That's what I was thinking when I heard he got suspended for 1 game.   

Fighting for the second time in less than twelve months AND the players got ejected from the game -- 1 game

Vontaze Burfict's latest transgression - 1 game

Josh Brown repeatedly abusing his wife - 1 game

Gronk one unnecessary roughness penalty for which he was not ejected - 1 game.

More probably than not having a general knowledge of deflating balls - 4 games

 

And people wonder why there are complaints about Goodell's discipline.

[stealinghome]

34 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

That's what I was thinking when I heard he got suspended for 1 game.   

Fighting for the second time in less than twelve months AND the players got ejected from the game -- 1 game

Vontaze Burfict's latest transgression - 1 game

Josh Brown repeatedly abusing his wife - 1 game

Gronk one unnecessary roughness penalty for which he was not ejected - 1 game.

More probably than not having a general knowledge of deflating balls - 4 games

 

And people wonder why there are complaints about Goodell's discipline.

Agreed. As a Pats fan I think a one-game suspension for Gronk is warranted, but then it’s BS that AJ Green walks away with only a fine for last week imo.

How is possible that Goodell makes the same mistakes over and over and over again without learning a damn thing?

[SuburbanHangSuite]

Oh man.  Praying for Shazier.  Watching him be carted off with his face covered was just sickening.  They always try to give a thumbs-up.

[Moose135]

12 minutes ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

Praying for Shazier. 

ESPN is reporting he was transported to a local hospital.  Not a good sign, but hoping for the best.

[Magog]

Quote

Oh man.  Praying for Shazier.  Watching him be carted off with his face covered was just sickening.  They always try to give a thumbs-up.

Quote

ESPN is reporting he was transported to a local hospital.  Not a good sign, but hoping for the best.

Hopefully, he will be all right. It didn't look good. 

 

In a surprise to nobody, The Bungals find a way to lose the game after being up 17-0 in the first half. They basically gave that game away by not making enough plays when it counts, having lots of stupid penalties, and that defensive guy (22) basically standing there & letting one of the Steelers touchdown happen. If this debacle doesn't cause Marvin Lewis (0-7 in the Playoffs) & the rest of those coordinators to lose their jobs, then I don't know what will. They're all a bunch of losers and they make Bob McAdoo & Jason Garrett look like geniuses. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Magog

[Jx223]

That was a very rough looking injury that Ryan Shazier sustained tonight. I hope he ends up being okay.

Tonight included a lot of rough/very hard looking hits as the Steelers/Bengals continued their ugly rivalry. (Including JuJu's hit on Burfict and the hit that Antonio got after he caught the TD pass in the 4th quarter.) Things really do get out of hand when these two teams play each other. I hope everyone injured in tonight's game ends up being okay. 

[Bastet]

I was in and out of the room tonight, so I didn't see any of Shazier's injury and removal from the field in real time, but watching clips online I really hope it's something like a spinal cord concussion (I can't remember the technical name), where the paralysis of limbs we clearly saw is temporary and the person recovers completely in fairly short order.  Because based on his movements (and lack thereof) and reports a teammate was crying near him (I haven't seen that, but it makes me fear what he observed/heard from Shazier), this could be bad, and I really hope it's not.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Bastet

[NUguy514]

I honestly don't know how anyone can root for the Steelers.  I really don't.

[stealinghome]

37 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I was in and out of the room tonight, so I didn't see any of Shazier's injury and removal from the field in real time, but watching clips online I really hope it's something like a spinal cord concussion (I can't remember the technical name), where the paralysis of limbs we clearly saw is temporary and the person recovers completely in fairly short order.  

That seems to be what the early reports are. I really, really, REALLY hope they are accurate.

https://mobile.twitter.com/EdBouchette/status/937918395609120768

[merylinkid]

The coaches have to get control of their players.   It's one thing to be rivals, but this is just flat out trying to hurt the other team.   Both teams (with the exception of Burfict) don't do it against other opponents.   They clearly have the ability to control themselves.  They need to do it when playing each other too.

[mojoween]

I’m seeing all over Twitter and sports media that “last night was a terrible look for the NFL” and “parents will only ever let their kids play flag after this” and I find that interesting, because I didn’t even WATCH the game.

I like Cincy, but Pittsburgh can fall into the ocean for all I care, plus I fucked up my fantasy roster so didn’t want to see my loss play out in real time.

So I truly wonder how many people saw the really bad stuff?  I’ve seen the Shazier hit and the Burfict blindside block, because I go on Twitter.  But a lot of people don’t and have no idea what happened last night, I would think.

Edited December 5, 2017 by mojoween

[mojoween]

Juju and Iloka got one game each for their hits last night which means to me Gronk’s punishment was WAY too lenient.

[Calvada]

I don't often agree with Jon Gruden.  I watch MNF less often since he has been on, because I find him so aggravating.  However, I was watching last night and wanted to stand up and cheer when Gruden asked what do you have to do to get thrown out of a game after the crap of Smith-Schuster's hit on Burfict and then standing over him, taunting him.  I could not understand why they didn't enforce both penalties, since the unsportsmanlike taunting came after the whistle blew.  And for the life of me, I could not understand how they did not immediately toss Smith-Schuster.  The hit was bad enough, but to stand over an injured player taunting him???  What a low-class, jerk move.  If a player from the team I follow ever did that, I would be angry, embarrassed, hoping the coach would bench him for the rest of the game, and watching for his teammates to tell him that shit belongs nowhere on their team.  I remember when Forrest Gregg was allowing Charles Martin to have his hit list on his towel and cheap shot Jim McMahon, and was talking about how Mossy Cade would be welcomed back after serving his sentence for rape.  I was totally embarrassed to admit I was a Packers fan.  I did not watch their games or wear any of my Packers shirts until they showed Forrest and his gang of thugs the door.  

This always happens between the Steelers and Bengals.  I fully expect there to be someone paralyzed or worse in one of these games.  I think the league has to do something - fine the organizations, suspend the head coach for a game, take away a draft choice, or something.  We get it, football is a violent game, and people get hurt.  But there's a huge difference between that, and injuring someone with a late, cheap, illegal hit and then taunting them when you do so.  To me, that goes right to the top - the coaches, the GM, the owner.  And the league office is not innocent in this either - why aren't they telling the officials to toss these guys?  

[merylinkid]

Two things I learned from following Football Zebras and MNF this week:

 

1.   Taunting is a continuation foul.   So even if it is after the whistle it is part of the "live" ball foul.    So the Bengals could only accept the late hit OR the taunting.   Not both.   So sayeth the Rule Book.

2.   As for why the Refs don't toss the guys -- apparently this IS the League's fault.   The League tells them not to toss if they can avoid it and the League will address the issue with fines/suspensions.   Which maybe tossing someone from a game will get more attention.   Toss the coaches if you have to.   As I said before, these two teams CAN behave if they want to.   They don't have near this much viciousness in other games.   So before the next Bengals-Steelers game, the League needs to send one of its little memos saying ANY unsportsmanlike conduct WILL result in discipline for the team.

[NUguy514]

They showed that history of injuries occurring in Bengals/Steelers games, and every. single. one. was an injury on a Bengals player.  That changed with Shazier's injury, but that wasn't intentional.  All of those injuries on Bengals players were 114% intentional.  It's infuriating.  Also, Ben Rapistberger should be in jail forever, but what else is new.

[xaxat]

14 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

They showed that history of injuries occurring in Bengals/Steelers games, and every. single. one. was an injury on a Bengals player.  That changed with Shazier's injury, but that wasn't intentional.  All of those injuries on Bengals players were 114% intentional.  It's infuriating. 

What they showed was a history of hits that led to rule changes, not a comprehensive injury history. And, while brutal, each one of the hits was legal at the time. 

[NUguy514]

6 minutes ago, xaxat said:

What they showed was a history of hits that led to rule changes, not a comprehensive injury history. And, while brutal, each one of the hits was legal at the time. 

And intentional.

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, merylinkid said:

 As I said before, these two teams CAN behave if they want to. 

If they had some structure for ejections, things would change. You're removing a player. That has real consequences. 

[Fukui San]

They could introduce levels to ejections if the league fears that ejecting players is too severe. Disqualifying players for a drive, or for a quarter. Then a second infraction could result in ejection from the game. Or you could steal the yellow card, red card system from Soccer, complete with the adorable little notebook they pull out.

In other news, I figured out who the Giants should hire to be the next head coach: Jeff Fisher. Now hear me out! Based on the play of Jared Goff and Case Keenum this year, the best way to develop a QB seems to be to have Fisher coach them for a year and then replace Fisher with someone competent.

[ganesh]

I proposed the soccer model. If it's made to detailed everyone's going to quibble and snip over whether it was an infraction that warranted a quarter or the entire game. As it is now, there's no systematic evaluation for even a game suspension. 

Two unsportsmanlike penalties and you're out for the game. Then the league can assess whether the infraction was severe enough to warrant further suspension. Set up an independent board of former officials or have the someone from the union chair it. The entire problem with the nfl is everything is so overdone. 

[stealinghome]

Overdone and yet so seat of the pants at the same time!

[Calvada]

6 hours ago, Fukui San said:

They could introduce levels to ejections if the league fears that ejecting players is too severe. Disqualifying players for a drive, or for a quarter. Then a second infraction could result in ejection from the game. Or you could steal the yellow card, red card system from Soccer, complete with the adorable little notebook they pull out.

Timeouts - the time honored tool of parents everywhere!  Wouldn't you love to hear the ref announce that:  "unsportsmanlike conduct, defense, no. 19, 15 yards, an automatic first down, and no. 19 will spend the next 15 minutes of game time in the locker room."  Can you imagine Ed Hochuli announcing one of these penalties?  

I suggest a new rule for Steelers/Bengals games - the first 2 players to have any kind of altercation - eject them!  And then keep doing that.  Perhaps by the time each team has 3 or 4 starters in the locker room, the stupid shit will end.  I also like the accumulation of penalties over the two games these two teams play.  Two unsportsmanlike conduct/taunting penalties, and you're out, even if you got one of those penalties in Week 2 and one in Week 14.  

[stealinghome]

In other news, Goodell has reportedly signed a contract extension. I'm not excited by several more years of totally bungled discipline, investigations, and refereeing...but I have to admit I'm getting a real kick out of imagining Jerry Jones' face today. Heh.

[Silver Raven]

Will Jerry continue with his lawsuit now?

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Overdone and yet so seat of the pants at the same time!

It's quite the paradox. Not to get too into the weeds, but it's really the challenges and constant reviews that ruined everything. It completely affects how the refs call the game and is a large part of the reason I think the overall nfl product just isn't good. 

[twoods]

On 12/5/2017 at 0:22 PM, mojoween said:

Juju and Iloka got one game each for their hits last night which means to me Gronk’s punishment was WAY too lenient.

Some people think that Juju's hit was worse because he cowered over, unlike Gronk. I thought that Juju was blocking and that last bit was unnecessary. Gronk's hit was after the play, and I can tell believe I saw some commentators saying he should have not had a suspension. 

What I find ridiculous is that Crabtree and Talib got only one game for that crazy fight. After all of Talib's shenanigans, he deserves multiple game suspensions. 

I hope that the refs warn the players next time when the Steelers and Bengals play because their games have always been violent. I know that the NFL haters will point to this game as the eventual downfall of the brutal NFL, but there are other sports out there (hockey) that have fights every single game yet are never called out for being brutal and dangerous. I wonder why people save their contempt for football players.

Fisher as the next Giants coach would be hilarious. This will probably be Marv's last season for the Bengals. He always someone manages to save his job, but it doesn't look good.

Edited December 7, 2017 by twoods

[mojoween]

OBJ posted a video on Instagram that compared his sideline demeanor almost shot for shot with Tom Brady that I thought was brilliant.

Some cat named Jimmy Traina gave Odell a total backhanded compliment by saying that OBJ had a point, but he was also delusional.  Now I have no idea who Traina is but I feel like it's a name I may have heard before.

I understand that Odell just absolutely rubs people the wrong way and the Giants resume does not stack up to New England, but I can see his point that Brady is called a leader and Odell is called a diva when they are doing the same thing.

[merylinkid]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

see his point that Brady is called a leader and Odell is called a diva when they are doing the same thing.

It's what they do the rest of the time.   Brady can get away with that stuff on the sideline because he is trying to win the game.   During the week he is showing up, he is doing his job and he is helping the team.   OBJ throws temper tantrums on the sidelines when he doesn't get the ball enough, when things aren't going HIS way.   He is a distraction during the week too.   OBJ needs to STOP getting in the headlines so much and just quietly DO HIS JOB.   He's on IR this year for god's sakes, yet we are still talking about his antics.   That should tell you what this is really about.

 

I don't understand why Crabtree and Talib didn't get more than one game either.   It's a known history.   And the Raiders need to tell Crabtree to leave his gold OFF the field.    The Broncos just need to tell Talib to shape up or ship out.

[mojoween]

That’s fair, I mean Odell did get suspended for idiocy.  But Brady does throw temper tantrums on the sidelines, too.  I know my bias against Brady will color my view, but I’m going to support OBJ in this 100%.  Boat trip or not.

Jard Goff did an interview with Golic and Wingo and he was asked about play calling and he said “Sean comes up with them” and then he mentioned “Sean” again.

I know Goff is one of the ones younger than McVay, but I found that very interesting that he used his first name, and didn’t say “Coach,” which 99% of the time I hear players do.

I wonder if it’s a generational thing, as I am old enough to be Goff’s mother so we don’t really come from the same worldview.  Times, they are a changin’.

Edited December 7, 2017 by mojoween

[stealinghome]

It’s possible that McVay has told all his players to call him Sean instead of Coach. Since he’s so young, I can see why he might have gone that route.

[twoods]

Because of how close he is in age to his players, and his laid back demeanor, I can also see him insisting on having the players calling him Sean. What he has done for the Rams has been great to see- they seem to enjoy playing together. And did I mention how hot he is? I'm so grateful for all the sideline shots of him every week.

[Jx223]

Ian Rapoport is reporting on Twitter that the Browns have fired their GM Sashi Brown.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Jx223

[mojoween]

Is he the one who was going to revolutionize the NFL with sabremetrics?

[Jx223]

48 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Is he the one who was going to revolutionize the NFL with sabremetrics?

He was one of the people that was part of an analytics based executive team for the Browns. I had seen reports before that the analytics team and Hue Jackson had disagreements about decisions regarding the team. Cleveland.com is reporting that Sashi and Hue were not on speaking terms in the past month. I think things may have gotten worse between them when the Browns botched the AJ McCarron trade who Hue really wanted.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/12/browns_sashi_brown_has_been_fi.html

Sashi did help the Browns stockpile a bunch of picks and I wonder how the next GM will use them. I definitely think that the Browns will draft #1 again in this very good QB draft. The Browns have a decent defense this year but they still need a QB, and could use more pieces. Maybe they will draft a QB with the first pick instead of not taking one with it like they have in the last two drafts.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Jx223

[twoods]

I was looking at how many picks the Browns have in next year's draft and couldn't believe  it. With a good GM and draft, they can be decent in a few years.

Edited December 7, 2017 by twoods

[merylinkid]

The Browns said the next draft was crucial (as have been all the others ones they screwed) but Jackson will be the HC.   So that means they have to find a VP of Football who is willing to run the draft they way Jackson wants.    Look the Browns have trouble finding quality candidates as it is.   Why make it harder by informing a guy it has to be the HC's (who is NOT that good to warrant this treatment) way or no way.   If this draft is so crucial why do ANYTHING to make it harder to succeed?

[ganesh]

It's almost like they should wipe the entire slate clean and start from scratch. 

[mojoween]

Wait does Mercedes Benz sponsor two teams in the NFC South or is it not the Mercedes Benz Superdome any more?

[Popples]

5 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Wait does Mercedes Benz sponsor two teams in the NFC South or is it not the Mercedes Benz Superdome any more?

It's still the Mercedes-Benz Superdome.

[mojoween]

Huh.  I don’t know why I find that interesting, but I do.

[Popples]

I did, too when I first heard who got the naming rights for the Falcons' new stadium. I didn't even know stadiums/arenas could have the same sponsor in the same league.

Puts on tinfoil hat: The Germans are trying to buy the NFL!!!!

[Jx223]

The Browns have decided to hire John Dorsey as their new GM. John has worked for the Kansas City Chiefs for four years as a GM (2013-2016) and has also worked for the Packers.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Browns-name-John-Dorsey-General-Manager/afd38a04-201f-4f9f-bfb8-88f6aa9f320c

Edited December 8, 2017 by Jx223

[mojoween]

I feel like if you are the star of your team, you should just put yourself on IR.

I mean...Odell.  Watt.  Watson.  Rodgers.  Luck, even.  I know there are more that aren’t coming to me and now Kamara is hurt.

[stealinghome]

Ryan Shazier had surgery yesterday. It's not sounding great. Forget football, I hope he is able to walk and run in the future.

https://sports.yahoo.com/steelers-announce-ryan-shazier-underwent-spinal-surgery-194453977.html