NFL Thread

[ebk57]

Worse, I was stuck having to listen to the Redskins radio feed on Sirius in the car...

 

That should be outlawed by the Geneva Convention...  I'm so sorry you were subjected to that.  

[mojoween]

Next 30 for 30 on 12/12 is Four Falls of Buffalo about Buffalo's four trips to the SB. Looks interesting.

[xaxat]

Of course.

[BabyVegas]

Well that last minute was pretty exciting there.

[ebk57]

Wow.  Almost turned it off after the last Ravens turnover.  Really glad I didn't.

[Jx223]

I thought that the Browns/Ravens game ended up being entertaining towards the end.  The Ravens gave a good effort at the end to get the win. I thought that Austin Davis also did a nice job coming and pushing the Browns down the field to tie the game at the end.  The QB saga at Cleveland gets another layer added to it, lol.

 

Depending on how Josh's injury turns out, I could see maybe Austin starting next week and maybe Johnny backing him up. If Josh ends up being okay, then I think it will be Josh/Austin again, for at least another week.

[Danny Franks]

Dammit. The Ravens can't even suck for a good draft pick properly. Though to be fair, they had a good showing, letting this Browns team put up 27 points against them. But, just as I feared, the Browns browned it all up again.

 

The Factory of Sadness has to be the most apt soubriquet in all of sports. What a ridiculous ending to a game. That was more like something that would happen in Friday Night Lights.

 

I have to imagine that nearly everyone watching this game must have been repeating "who?" nearly every time someone made a play. Battle of the Practice Squads.

[mojoween]

I realized this morning that I do feel badly for the Browns players. No one actively seeks to be a laughingstock and it's just not enjoyable to be made fun of over and over.

I know most of them are relatively wealthy but you can still get your feelings hurt when you're on the way to the bank.

[Constantinople]

Dammit. The Ravens can't even suck for a good draft pick properly.

With that perspective, I guess you could argue that the refs screwed both the Browns and the Ravens

SB Nation: Referees missed apparent penalty that would have nullified Ravens' stunning 'kick-six' win

 

Edited December 1, 2015 by Constantinople

[Danny Franks]

With that perspective, I guess you could argue that the refs screwed both the Browns and the Ravens

SB Nation: Referees missed apparent penalty that would have nullified Ravens' stunning 'kick-six' win

 

 

Aw see, with the way the Ravens' season has gone, the kick six should have occurred just as it did, with the Ravens going wild... and then everyone notices that the refs had thrown a flag. But let this be a lesson, no team shall out-suck the Cleveland Browns.

[BitterApple]

What has been going on with the officiating this season?! I can't remember a year when there's been so much disorganization and bad/missed calls. The NFL needs to figure something out because there's way too many stoppages to review plays. It's messing up the flow of the game and making it unenjoyable for the viewers.

Edited December 1, 2015 by BitterApple

[nowandlater]

What has been going on with the officiating this season?! I can't remember a year when there's been so much disorganization and bad/missed calls. The NFL needs to figure something out because there's way too many stoppages to review plays. It's messing up the flow of the game and making it unenjoyable for the viewers.

 

I recall Mike Pereira saying recently that all the new younger officials are to blame.

 

But a lot of respectable veteran refs have been doing a terrible job this season, including this guy:

 

http://deadspin.com/nfl-demotes-officiating-crew-after-screwups-in-cardinal-1745456717

[ganesh]

I'd rather have missed calls than too many ticky tack calls. All the reviews and challenges are affecting how the game is called. Just get rid of all of it and let the officials call the game. The missed calls will even out. You don't need 5 minutes to review whether a guy caught the ball or not. Add one ot two more officials per crew if they need to. Give them the resources they need to succeed and let them work. 

No other sport has this problem. The NFL needs to get over itself and remember they're just playing a game. 

[stealinghome]

Rodney Harrison said this morning that he thinks the officials should be full-time. I think that's going a little far--these dudes can't work basically 16 days a year and have a full-time salary--BUT I would totally support Harrison's idea of a fine system. Seems to me part of the problem is that there's zero accountability for missed/blown calls. Maybe the refs would be a little sharper if it came out of their own paychecks.

 

But I also don't think the NFL cares that much about poor officiating, or their solution wouldn't be "let a disaster of a crew keep officiating, just shove them off to a less high-profile game."

[ganesh]

Well, they work preseason and playoffs too. So not only 16 days, and I'm sure there's a lot of work outside just showing up at the game on time. Maybe not full time, but something more secure than now. If that's going to happen, then institute a more stringent assessment for the refs, sure. 

I also don't think the blown calls are as much of an issue as too many flags because we live with blown calls in many other sports. The whole challenge/review system needs to be scrapped. 

[BitterApple]

Ganesh, I agree that the calls will even out. I was rolling my eyes as fellow Pats fans were flipping out over the Refs who officiated the game against Denver. Yeah, there were some B.S. calls towards the end, but Tom and Co. have been the beneficiaries of questionable penalties as well.

With that said, I agree they need to get qualified refs, eliminate the endless reviews and let the chips fall where they may.

Edited December 1, 2015 by BitterApple

[merylinkid]

Oh heavens, remember all the screaming about the blown calls in the days before replay?   That is why we have replay now.   because people will not accept that human beings sometimes get it wrong.   I think it was Cris Collinsworth who said the more complicated the rule book the more mistakes there are.   He could be on to something.   At the HoF there is a display of the original rulebook.  1 page.  Now the damn thing is like 400 pages long.   And we still don't know what a catch is.

 

I think suspending refs will get their attention.   And firing the refs who screw up too badly.   Pete Morelli's crew has made a lot of mistakes this year.   They just downgraded refs before and kept them out of post season.   In season consequences might work better.

[ganesh]

A blown call is different than a missed call though. There are still blown calls with all the replays and challenges. There's more blown calls because the refs feel like it's "safer" to throw a flag and then review it, and eventually call it back, then to make a "non-call." Anecdotally, I'd say all of it is making the refs throw more flags and blowing calls. Missed calls happen in every sport and fans live with it. I think everyone who has played sports and been on the wrong side of a missed call agrees that you have to play better so the missed calls have minimal effect. 

 

Endless reviews and replays don't fix all the blown calls in the end. Get rid of it and live with it. Chances are, if you let an experienced ref make a call on whether a reception was a legal catch or not, and they know they won't be second guessed, they're going to get it right most of the time. You know what a catch is, instinctively. Review each crew thoroughly after the game and make a performance assessment. 

 

All the excessive rule changes don't help either, and maybe the competition committee needs to thoroughly review the rules at the end of the season. 

[stealinghome]

Missed calls happen in every sport and fans live with it. I think everyone who has played sports and been on the wrong side of a missed call agrees that you have to play better so the missed calls have minimal effect.

Unless the missed call is clear and flagrant and directly impacts the end of a game. A la Seattle with the batted ball earlier this year. How do you miss THAT????? But yes, I think generally speaking, blown calls (and I include ticky-tack stuff that should be let go here) are more frustrating than missed calls.

 

One thing I would say though is that I can live with missed calls IF there is some consistency to the misses. But don't ignore stuff for 3 quarters and then start calling it tight in the 4th, or vice versa. Part of my frustration with the refs, at least this season, is that it seems like even within a game there is very little consistency...other than that the refs are consistently pretty poor.

 

 

ETA: SI is piling on too.

Edited December 1, 2015 by stealinghome

[cattykit]

Wasn't it just two or three seasons ago where the regular refs were cheered on their return after the debacle of the replacement officials?  Has anyone analyzed if the regular refs are really any more accurate?

 

For me, the problem is that they've become a complete intrusion into the game.  You can't enjoy a play until you look around and see whether the result's going to stand.  Play after play after play.  I agree with Cris Collinsworth that there are probably too many rules.  Do they really need a separate rule for every possible contingency?  And their response to issues is to create new rules.  I think they take their cues from Congress or something.  And they know that if they get the call wrong, the other side will probably challenge it so it comes out right, so they lose the incentive to get it right the first time.

 

How about unlimited challenges, but for each wrong one, you lose a time out and when you run out of those, they start taking points off the board. 

 

With the amount of money the league makes, they could afford to pay full time salaries to these guys and make sure the officials put in the same amount of training as the players they regulate.

[mojoween]

It amuses me, wondering what the league thinks about the one State Farm ad where the refs are buffoons on the field with an open mic, because it's not a far stretch to think that occasionally actually happens.

Edited December 1, 2015 by mojoween

[Crs97]

The other commercial I liked was a ref waving his arms as he explained, "Yes, we know we blew the last call. We will be making it up in the next quarter by blowing a comparable call for the other team."

[twoods]

The refs have a thankless job. There are way more rules now than before, and fans have become such whiners and complainers. So have the players. The defense can't breathe on an offensive player. I can understand protecting players, but some of those ticky tack calls are ridiculous (like an offensive player lowers their head to run and the other guy tackles him but his helmet colides with the other. The guy has lowered his damn helmet- how are they supposed to tackle?). The refs have to check everything and usually there is someone whining in their face about a call. If you're going to fine the refs, then fine the players for whining and acting like idiots after every single play.

[rallymantis]

 To instead see Brady on his ass?  Now that's how to wrap up Thanksgiving weekend.

 

A vine worth having.

[Constantinople]

Oh heavens, remember all the screaming about the blown calls in the days before replay?   That is why we have replay now.   because people will not accept that human beings sometimes get it wrong.

I remember.  It seemed as if every time the Oilers played the Steelers, particularly in the playoffs, the Oilers would get screwed by a bad call; sometimes more than one. Of course, given how much time has passed, I expect I'm overstating things, but that's how it felt.

Not that I was an Oilers fan, so much as an anti-Steelers "fan" and it seemed as if the Steelers always got the calls.  So, at the time, I wholeheartedly endorsed some kind of instant replay.  But now it seems as if the cure is worse than the disease.

 

For me, the problem is that they've become a complete intrusion into the game.  You can't enjoy a play until you look around and see whether the result's going to stand.  Play after play after play.

I agree. It's gotten to the point where I just assume a penalty will be called so as not to get my hopes up after a score or a big play.

Another phrase that comes to mind is "Perfection is the enemy of the good".

I also found this quote about law and due process, "The worse the society, the more law there will be. In Hell there will be nothing but law and due process will be meticulously observed".

[ganesh]

If you're going to fine the refs, then fine the players for whining and acting like idiots after every single play.

 

Players in soccer can get carded for just being jackasses. You get two, you're out of the game. Let the refs through some personal foul flags.

[FuriousStyles]

I think a good idea I heard was to have the refs at practices/scrimmages so they can become accustomed to the speed of the game on a more regular basis, rather than just once a week. I think just like with what Romo said in his last presser...his brain and decision-making hadnt caught up with him after being out so long. And if they go that route, it would justify making the refs "full-time" employees.

My thing is, why is that part (full-time or not) even an issue? The NFL is not hurting for money. As much revenue as this game generates, and the volume of viewers every week, the league ought to be doing everything possible to make sure they have top notch everything.

Edited December 2, 2015 by FuriousStyles

[topanga]

The refs have a thankless job. There are way more rules now than before, and fans have become such whiners and complainers. So have the players. The defense can't breathe on an offensive player. I can understand protecting players, but some of those ticky tack calls are ridiculous (like an offensive player lowers their head to run and the other guy tackles him but his helmet colides with the other. The guy has lowered his damn helmet- how are they supposed to tackle?). The refs have to check everything and usually there is someone whining in their face about a call. If you're going to fine the refs, then fine the players for whining and acting like idiots after every single play.

Don't forget coaches. Yes, there are some respectful coaches who will have a calm chat with an official after a questionable call (or non-call), but there are others who yell, spit, curse, harass the refs, and even grab them after the game. And then you have the retired NFL official giving his opinion on TV, scrutinizing the call, the review, and even the delivery of the explanation. 

 

I used to thing that MLB umps had it the worst, but now it seems like the NFL refs have an even tougher job. They're constantly under a microscope, and almost no one likes their decisions. Maybe they should go on strike again. For what demands, I have no idea. 

 

ETA: I'm not calling myself a saint. I sit at home and yell at the TV, too. "Come on, that was a catch!" "How could you miss that hold?" "He barely touched Tom Brady!"

Edited December 2, 2015 by topanga

[ganesh]

I think it's harder for the NFL refs than the umps simply because there's more going on and a lot more ground to cover. The thing is, people complain if an ump misses a ball/strike call, but know that overall it evens out. The strike is simple. The ball goes into a predetermined zone or not. And everyone lives with different strike zones for different umps. 

 

Simplify what a 'catch' is, let the refs call it, and don't make it reviewable. They'll miss some, players will get away with one now and then, but I bet they get a lot more right than now. 

[SuburbanHangSuite]

^^^ Right? A catch has been a catch since the beginning of time but now there's a "process of the catch" that has to be considered? I don't remember which pre-game show I was watching but Randy Moss was making fun of how ridiculous the catch rules have gotten. They take stuff that isn't broken and HULK SMASH it. Slightly off- topic but I have point---my kid is bringing home 2nd grade math that I am struggling to help him complete because they have completely changed the math logic. Did math really need to be changed??? Well neither did the catch rules. It's just really frustrating to see things changed just for the sake of changing them.

[Magog]

 

The Factory of Sadness has to be the most apt soubriquet in all of sports. What a ridiculous ending to a game. That was more like something that would happen in Friday Night Lights.

 

I was downright shocked at what happened at the end of that game. If it happened to the Cowboys, Patriots, or the Jets, then that play would of been funny. But since this happened to the Browns & it gives ESPN another reason to make fun of them, the city of Cleveland again, & to bring up 1964 all over again, I don't find it amusing.

 

 

 

I realized this morning that I do feel badly for the Browns players. No one actively seeks to be a laughingstock and it's just not enjoyable to be made fun of over and over.

I know most of them are relatively wealthy but you can still get your feelings hurt when you're on the way to the bank.

 

Somehow, I don't think Johnny Manziel gives a damn about that. The sooner that this loser is off that team & goes to the Cowboys (hopefully), the better. 

 

Speaking of the Cowboys, they went 0-7 when Tony Romo got injured with his shoulder. Tim Tebow would of won a couple of those games at least. I don't know why they didn't at least give him a look. Tebow is most certainly better than Brandon Weeden & Matt Cassell.

[ganesh]

I was calling for Tebow to the Cowboys the hour after Romo went down. They wouldn't have even needed to sent a plane as he would have floated down on a cloud. 

[Crs97]

Regarding the refs, I always tell my boys that they can only complain about a blown call when their team played perfectly. So they know that once "I can't believe the ref missed that" leaves their lips, it better be followed by all the ways their team could have played better, too.

[Rick Kitchen]

The 49ers got an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty because an official running down the sidelines ran into one of the 49er players who was standing there.  Is there a rule that the sidelines personnel must make sure they aren't in the officials' way?  The player wasn't even close to the field.

[twoods]

Speaking of the Cowboys, they went 0-7 when Tony Romo got injured with his shoulder. Tim Tebow would of won a couple of those games at least. I don't know why they didn't at least give him a look. Tebow is most certainly better than Brandon Weeden & Matt Cassell.

Don't blame them- half those losses had nothing to do with the QB and were blown leads or last second wins by the other team. Tebow wouldn't have changed that.

[topanga]

Don't blame them- half those losses had nothing to do with the QB and were blown leads or last second wins by the other team. Tebow wouldn't have changed that.

But the losses also had a lot to do with the Cowboys QB not being able to get the ball into the end zone, which kept the games closer than they should have been. 

[ganesh]

One of the games was raining really hard, so Tebow would have won that one at least because he can walk on water. 

[Jx223]

Ryan Mallet worked out with the Ravens today. Maybe he will get another chance in the NFL. I think he's better Matt Schaub/ Jimmy Clausen.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Jx223

[merylinkid]

 

Is there a rule that the sidelines personnel must make sure they aren't in the officials' way?  The player wasn't even close to the field.

Yep.   Sideline personnel are suppose to stay a designated distance from the sideline.   The officials are running and watching the game (you know so they don't miss any calls), they can't watch where they are going.   A collision could cause serious injury, so they put on the sidelines to be responsible and avoid it.

[topanga]

Regarding the refs, I always tell my boys that they can only complain about a blown call when their team played perfectly. So they know that once "I can't believe the ref missed that" leaves their lips, it better be followed by all the ways their team could have played better, too.

You sound like my husband. He says that to our kids whenever they start complaining about the refs--which happens only when they're losing. 

[ganesh]

Oh, I think you can complain if the ref makes a legit mistake or for inconsistency, especially when a flag in the 1st quarter suddenly isn't in the 4th quarter. But you can't blame the refs on blown calls being the reason for losing. That's what I'm saying about getting rid of all the reviews. The incessant overanalysis doesn't correct blown calls and leads to inconsistencies in officiating. Without, yeah, a ref will blow it on whether the ground causes the fumble or a catch or not, but it will be consistent and blown calls even out overall. The current system doesn't consistently correct blown calls. If anything, it's probably overturning correct calls.

[caracas1914]

Manziel was in rehab, no?

In that context, Social media of him partying (and apparently drinking) after you've been named the starting QB for your team is not only stupid, it shows a cluelessness the Browns couldn't take a chance on. It's not like he's set the world on fire when he joined the NFL to begin with.

Edited December 3, 2015 by caracas1914

[Chrissytd]

Coldplay is the Super Bowl 50 halftime act.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14283493/coldplay-play-half-show-super-bowl-50

 

I like Coldplay but they seem a bit mellow for the halftime show.

[mojoween]

Yeah I'm not at all excited about Coldplay. Perfect for stodgy old CBS because no one cares about Chris Martin's nipples.

[stealinghome]

Jeez, Martha Firestone Ford should have taken over the Lions a long time ago.

[BitterApple]

Coldplay?! The half time show is going to be a snoozefest.

[Fukui San]

Apparently my suggestion to the league of an NWA reunion were ignored. The hologram technology is there to bring in Eazy E.

[topanga]

Apparently my suggestion to the league of an NWA reunion were ignored. The hologram technology is there to bring in Eazy E.

That would've been awesome. But can you imagine how stressed the producers would be, wondering if Dr. Dre forgot he was doing the Radio Edit of a song and throwing out an F-bomb?

[merylinkid]

Frack.

[ebk57]

Another unbelievable ending to a game.  What a wacky season this has been.