S14.E05: Gunn And Heid

[guilfoyleatpp]

Candace was a god-awful leader, and the sole voice in "let's not define it! let's let creativity flow!" and led to the destruction of their white fabric. Arrogance. I just rewatched.

 

Although it wasn't explicitly stated, I do think that her "leadership" is the reason she was in the bottom two. I hope she learned a lesson...she was going to "raise Amanda up" and nearly was eliminated herself.

 

I see Kelly and Lindsay as cannon fodder.  They're not going to the end. I don't care for either of their aesthetics...of course I didn't get Gretchen either, so I could be wrong. I can't say with Ashley - she is so hit and miss and the drama ensures they will keep her around. Also, the "we're friends! now we're enemies!" dynamic with Candace, who may have a chance.

[slothgirl]

The women, meanwhile, fucked things up from moment 1, when they (at least thought they) picked the wrong fabrics--although it also seemed to be producer sabotage too, because I don't know if anyone else noticed, but the teams were offered fabric colors in line with their PAINT colors, so it's not like they actually had much of a choice. So those horrible pink and purple shades were pre-designated to the women--the show perhaps hoping this would equal out the gender numbers with a female elimination, but also cause some kind of freak-out/cycle of drama.  And they got their wish.

Yes!

 

I did notice that on 2nd viewing. I had wondered how the girls ended up with so many random ugly colors when the guys were standing there with a fairly cohesive batch despite having supposedly gathered MORE rolls. But after watching it again it was clear. The colors available to the guys, while being somewhat "dentist office equipment" were MILES above the colors available to the girls team, which didn't even all go together. You could tell from looking at them when they were still in the barrels that one set had a cohesive palette and the other didn't. The girls had the choice to make their own fabric (and clearly they tried) but they were given a nasty color palette up front, and then none of them could think beyond it.

 

And that was the biggest problem with the people on the girls team. None of them is really capable of thinking out of the box. All the contestants who can think outside the box were on the other team. (Like or hate her looks, I think this is one of Merline's strengths too) None of them were natural leaders either (and no, not you Candice for sure!). None of them were skilled enough to even fall back on something that they could make quickly and make it well and polished even if it was boring, except Lindsey. On 2nd viewing, it looked to me like her pants were very well made, even if the style was mumsy.

 

Candice's idea of leading was to give everyone advice about details of their outfits while offering no cohesive ideas to tie it all together except "we should get rid of the collars". Candice can't see the big picture forest for the details in the trees, and I agree with a poster up-thread who said she designs for herself. She first mentions that their girl is from LA (which makes a little bit more sense with the designs and the color palette) and somehow when at a loss and panicked, decides the girl is initially "going to", and then "in", SF (which just happens to be close-to-home for her).

 

There wasn't another strong personality on the team to step up and do more than just say "I don't understand what our direction is" while waiting for someone else to inform them. SOMEONE needed to offer ideas for a cohesive plan up front. They all failed in that regard. They all seemed to be looking at everyone else to solve the problem, even if they pointed out the problem. Candice's ideas may have sucked, but no one else offered any better ones. They all seemed to want to take a back seat rather than go out on a limb with a suggestion. Laurie had the next strongest personality, but she did the same thing. They all said "I'm lost. What's our direction?" and waited to be told, instead of "How about THIS for a direction?"

 

 Even after they trashed their fabric, they had options for it. They could have tried to dye the whole thing with a wash to tone down the color and have a muted pattern showing through. They could have tried to use it sparingly with one other solid color from the rolls. They could have not trashed it all up front in the first place by randomly throwing paint balls at it before agreeing on a plan. They could have gone with a beach theme to justify the colors (speaking of which, I have to say I didn't think Amanda's dress was the worst thing up there.. I'd love to have that as a beach dress so I could sit on the sand without carrying a towel around, but also not have fabric over the front of my legs. It's your tarp and your outfit in one!). They could have added MORE paint to it to break up the polka dot look.

 

The team really needed both a leader and someone who could think outside the box for what they had. The boys team had barrels of colored balls and used ONE color (that's out of the box thinking) They had balls of paint, but they broke them open, put the paint into containers and painted it on with a brush. (more out of the box).

 

The girls team didn't need better collaboration.. they needed IDEAS. And none of them had any.

Edited September 6, 2015 by slothgirl

[aradia22]

 

I think that's total revisionist history.  Watch the episode again.  The guys were working on everything every second.

Sorry, I should have clarified that I thought they were fucking around with the paint. Jake was experimenting with it like the girls were. It's just that he kept it to one color and did more controlled experiments to see how it behaved instead of just taking out all the white fabric and breaking the paint shells on it.

 

They were not working on everything every second though. I saw Joseph helping Blake with his dress but Blake just came in to add the flowers at the end. For the most part there wasn't any more collaboration than there is on a typical episode when they talk to each other even if it isn't a team challenge.

[film noire]

Sorry, I should have clarified that I thought they were fucking around with the paint. Jake was experimenting with it like the girls were. It's just that he kept it to one color and did more controlled experiments to see how it behaved instead of just taking out all the white fabric and breaking the paint shells on it.

 

Well, but that IS the difference between fucking around (throw everything and see what happens -- like they were in kindergarden) vs design (stick to one colour on a field of white for graphic punch,  figure out which shape and stroke has the most impact, keep the negative space alive, etc).  That is a design eye at work, not a bunch of assholes throwing paint bombs on canvas. 

 

 

when at a loss and panicked, decides the girl is initially "going to", and then "in", SF (which just happens to be close-to-home) for her.

 

And she could've made the San Fran thing work -- purple mixed with the pastels + details like Ashley's collar = a modern riff on SF's Victorian Painted Ladies -- flip Ashley's color back to front (cascading down the back instead of sci fi front) give Amanda's dress a higher Victorian/Edwardian neck, as an at-odds play on ease vs structure,  exaggerate that tortured design of Candace's so it looks more architectural and less softly blobby -- SOMETHING, anything -- beyond "shove this purple in howsoever we can".

 

But  then again -- after this episode -- I don't think most of the women are designers. They just make clothes they want to wear. And that's not fashion.

Edited September 6, 2015 by film noire

[guilfoyleatpp]

Candice's idea of leading was to give everyone advice about details of their outfits while offering no cohesive ideas to tie it all together except "we should get rid of the collars". 

 

Also, this...so this...

 

as if she was a combination of kindergarten teacher and female gothy Tim Gunn. As if she has won every single runway and knows she is a shoe in for taking it all.

 

Arrogance.

[Kromm]

Yes!

 

I did notice that on 2nd viewing. I had wondered how the girls ended up with so many random ugly colors when the guys were standing there with a fairly cohesive batch despite having supposedly gathered MORE rolls. But after watching it again it was clear. The colors available to the guys, while being somewhat "dentist office equipment" were MILES above the colors available to the girls team, which didn't even all go together. You could tell from looking at them when they were still in the barrels that one set had a cohesive palette and the other didn't. The girls had the choice to make their own fabric (and clearly they tried) but they were given a nasty color palette up front, and then none of them could think beyond it.

 

And that was the biggest problem with the people on the girls team. None of them is really capable of thinking out of the box. All the contestants who can think outside the box were on the other team. (Like or hate her looks, I think this is one of Merline's strengths too) None of them were natural leaders either (and no, not you Candice for sure!). None of them were skilled enough to even fall back on something that they could make quickly and make it well and polished even if it was boring, except Lindsey. On 2nd viewing, it looked to me like her pants were very well made, even if the style was mumsy.

 

Candice's idea of leading was to give everyone advice about details of their outfits while offering no cohesive ideas to tie it all together except "we should get rid of the collars". Candice can't see the big picture forest for the details in the trees, and I agree with a poster up-thread who said she designs for herself. She first mentions that their girl is from LA (which makes a little bit more sense with the designs and the color palette) and somehow when at a loss and panicked, decides the girl is initially "going to", and then "in", SF (which just happens to be close-to-home for her).

 

There wasn't another strong personality on the team to step up and do more than just say "I don't understand what our direction is" while waiting for someone else to inform them. SOMEONE needed to offer ideas for a cohesive plan up front. They all failed in that regard. They all seemed to be looking at everyone else to solve the problem, even if they pointed out the problem. Candice's ideas may have sucked, but no one else offered any better ones. They all seemed to want to take a back seat rather than go out on a limb with a suggestion. Laurie had the next strongest personality, but she did the same thing. They all said "I'm lost. What's our direction?" and waited to be told, instead of "How about THIS for a direction?"

 

 Even after they trashed their fabric, they had options for it. They could have tried to dye the whole thing with a wash to tone down the color and have a muted pattern showing through. They could have tried to use it sparingly with one other solid color from the rolls. They could have not trashed it all up front in the first place by randomly throwing paint balls at it before agreeing on a plan. They could have gone with a beach theme to justify the colors (speaking of which, I have to say I didn't think Amanda's dress was the worst thing up there.. I'd love to have that as a beach dress so I could sit on the sand without carrying a towel around, but also not have fabric over the front of my legs. It's your tarp and your outfit in one!). They could have added MORE paint to it to break up the polka dot look.

 

The team really needed both a leader and someone who could think outside the box for what they had. The boys team had barrels of colored balls and used ONE color (that's out of the box thinking) They had balls of paint, but they broke them open, put the paint into containers and painted it on with a brush. (more out of the box).

 

The girls team didn't need better collaboration.. they needed IDEAS. And none of them had any.

 

True. But the girls were clearly set up to fail by the producers. That indeed doesn't mean they couldn't and shouldn't have done better, but the producers DO know what they are doing when they stir the pot. They know how dependent most of these people are on the materials and the disparity was on purpose. Oh, they likely didn't know ahead of time who'd be on which team (unless they whispered some suggestions in some ears--which we DO know happens on this show sometimes), but they wanted ONE side, whoever was on it, to be really at a big disadvantage.  They wanted conflict, and it was going to happen with that pinkish "red" paintball paint, and purple and pastel fabric, no matter what. 

 

In other words, I can't agree with a lot of the over the top praise of the men and how well they worked together. Because if this show has proved anything over the years it's that when things go their way, we can get an illusion of harmony, and when something goes wrong, that's when they all get selfish, or panicky, or dumb as doorknobs. If the men had the shitty pink paint and inherently disgusting supplemental fabrics, chances are some dysfunction, stifled thought processes, creative constipation, etc. would have resulted too.  I think people here looking at the RESULT of a situation here and acting like it was the cause. If the men had started in that place instead of the women (with ugly paint and fabrics) we can only speculate that they'd have been as organized, calm and productive as they seemed to be with what they had. We can't know--and in fact based on the history of this show I'm inclined to think they would have fallen to pieces too.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Kromm

[Archery]

I am of 100% Polish ethnicity, 2nd generation American citizenship (my parents were born in the US, my grandparents were not). My grandparents were often called dumb Polacks, which (in spite of their level of education) was in large part due to the language barrier, both in not understanding (with the attendant ridicule) and in not being understood (ditto). At least one side also suffered the indignity of having their surnames 'Americanized" to make both the spelling and pronunciation easier for their new countrymen. Even though I was born 50 years after my grandparents came to the US, I was still subjected to the 'dumb Polack' taunt throughout my childhood and teenage years. It IS a slur. Since I have an IQ in the 99.6th percentile, I know that I am certainly not 'dumb'. But it still stings.

 

My parents spoke Polish, yet did not teach it, or encourage it to be taught, to any of us. This was largely due to our being post-WWII babies. There were many foreign refugees coming to the US at the end of that war, under the heading of 'displaced persons'...which came to be known as DPs - also a slur, regardless of the national origin of the refugee. My parents, just as their siblings and many of their friends, did not want us, their own children, to have to bear two slurs, so they discouraged the more outward signs of our heritage. I remember my mother saying, "don't act like a DP!" It was primarily within our own families or parish (in those days people tended to go to the parish associated with their ethnicity) where we felt comfortable showing our roots. Hopefully things have changed for the better....but sometimes I have my doubts.

 

I imagine there are MANY ethnic groups who could easily find similar stories in their family history. Doesn't make one any less hurtful than the others. Ethnic slurs of any kind are something I will not tolerate in my day to day life and I am happy to say I've gotten myself a bit of a reputation as lacking any 'sense of humor' about them. I am sure many people find ethnic slurs (and especially the jokes) as very humorous...but as funny as they may be, they are a million, million times more dangerous in the way they try to make it seem perfectly natural and fine to slam/ridicule/belittle someone for something they have absolutely no control over - their ethnic background.

 

End of rant. Sorry 'bout that - it is the one 'button' I have that is VERY easily pushed.

 

I do agree, however, that we Poles are VERY good looking.

For even non-Polish People Of A Certain Age, "Polack" will always be a slur because that is what Archie Bunker used to refer to his son in law, Mike Stivik a/k/a "Meathead," as. It never had anything but a negative connotation.

[slothgirl]

True. But the girls were clearly set up to fail by the producers. That indeed doesn't mean they couldn't and shouldn't have done better, but the producers DO know what they are doing when they stir the pot. They know how dependent most of these people are on the materials and the disparity was on purpose. ...  they wanted ONE side, whoever was on it, to be really at a big disadvantage.  They wanted conflict, and it was going to happen with that pinkish "red" paintball paint, and purple and pastel fabric, no matter what. 

 

 If the men had started in that place instead of the women (with ugly paint and fabrics) ...  I'm inclined to think they would have fallen to pieces too.

I have to disagree because there were individuals on the guys' team who knew how to think beyond what they were given and also how to use what they were given to good advantage. (Can you imagine anyone on the girl's team thinking to use the shoe lacing piece as a corset? I can't even imagine Candice thinking of that even though corsets are probably right in her goth dominatrix balliwick)

 

I don't think the deep shade of blue that they ultimately relied on existed in their bolts of fabric, but they (or at least Jake, who drove that boat) didn't look at the bolts and then STOP THINKING about color. From what we saw at least, no one on the girl's team seemed to realize that they didn't have to use every color they were given, or even look at the palette and recognize that the colors didn't all go together! It's no surprise that so many designers on this show work only in black... I think most of them have never taken a class in color theory. Given some of what we've seen over the years, I wonder if it's even taught at design schools! Joe was smart enough to steer his team into a unifying color before they even tried to fight for it.

 

The guys team also clearly understood the need to come up with a unifying idea from the start  BEFORE launching in too far, and they didn't let using the same fabric/color be the ONLY unifying idea. They settled on an "updated 50's" theme before anyone started designing or working on fabrication.

 

I really doubt they would have fallen to pieces the way the girl's did had the colors been reversed, and I don't think having the colors reversed would have saved the girl's because their problems were SO much bigger. I think the girl's team was composed of "followers" not leaders/trend setters, and also of people who were more disposed psychologically to falling apart when "inspiration" doesn't magically happen. I'm having trouble envisioning anyone on the blue team ever falling to pieces. Even Blake who seems like he's quite emotionally unstable doesn't get flustered by his own design process. As individuals, they are much more disciplined. Even Merline the whirling dervish hunkers down to get the job done at a certain point in her process.

 

The red team was composed of much weaker designers overall, as well as "worker bee / obedient" personalities (with the exception of Candice who was not a good leader either). Like Gabrielle last week, once they are lost, they are permanently lost. They don't have ideas... they wait for something to "come to them". They need "inspiration" and are stuck when nothing shows up, and then can't even pull something out of their "fallback default" bag of tricks to at least do WELL. Lindsey was the only one who pulled out a well made complex outfit (whether or not you like it). The rest were overwrought, or oversimple or badly done.

 

And this was a TWO DAY challenge like we've all been clamoring for!

Edited September 6, 2015 by slothgirl

[justawatcher]

I'm going to disagree on the fabric sabotage theory. I distinctly remember one of the blue team's talking heads saying that they decided before they began running for the fabric to get as much of the blue fabric as they could and then get the rest, so even before they sketched, they already knew what they wanted to accomplish. Even if they had ended up with blue, lime green, and neon yellow (which I believe were the colors), those colors do indeed blend together, just as pink, purple, and orange could have but didn't.

 

Picture the blue team's designs exactly as they were but instead of  blue, they were purple/lavender with the yellow traded out for the orange, and the exact same thing could have been accomplished. Colors had nothing to do with it. Execution did.

[Kromm]

I'm going to disagree on the fabric sabotage theory. I distinctly remember one of the blue team's talking heads saying that they decided before they began running for the fabric to get as much of the blue fabric as they could and then get the rest, so even before they sketched, they already knew what they wanted to accomplish. Even if they had ended up with blue, lime green, and neon yellow (which I believe were the colors), those colors do indeed blend together, just as pink, purple, and orange could have but didn't.

 

Picture the blue team's designs exactly as they were but instead of  blue, they were purple/lavender with the yellow traded out for the orange, and the exact same thing could have been accomplished. Colors had nothing to do with it. Execution did.

Purple is considered death though in fashion. It's NEVER fashionable.  Nor is Pink. That was the women's options (made worse by the fact that they were given no true Reds to use--even the paint was Pink).

 

Blue--even a more pastelish shade--is a far easier color to work with and not have something like horrible.

 

The men DID indeed make a decision to stick mostly to blue, but a similar decision on the other team never would have worked.  "All Purple" would have read Barney even more than it did. All Pink, like a Day Care center exploded. And if the last one was Orange as you've said?  I don't know how that wouldn't have been a nightmare too.

[yeswedo]

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[Passing Strange]

I'm going to disagree on the fabric sabotage theory. I distinctly remember one of the blue team's talking heads saying that they decided before they began running for the fabric to get as much of the blue fabric as they could and then get the rest, so even before they sketched, they already knew what they wanted to accomplish. Even if they had ended up with blue, lime green, and neon yellow (which I believe were the colors), those colors do indeed blend together, just as pink, purple, and orange could have but didn't.

 

I remember that and I disagree with the fabric sabotage theory, too. I just don't think the teams actually got to select their own color palettes. I think they were assigned the colors and that comment was Joseph cementing the fact that they were supposed to go for the blue, green and yellow. At the end of the paint ball battle the uniforms of all the men, the Blue Team, were covered in just blue, green and yellow paint, while all the Red Team women's uniforms were splattered with only pink and orange. That's why I think the colors were assigned. Someone somewhere screwed up, though, because Merline had been hit with only pink.

 

I also agree that the women's colors went together just as well as the men's. Their colors would have worked fine in the hands of more talented designers. It was their attempt to actually design with color, as the men and Merline did, that helped screw them up.

 

[auntlada]

When I hear pink, purple and orange, I see sunsets. But I had no idea that purple was considered death in fashion. (I know a lot of people who wear purple and orange -- although not together -- though. My high school colors were purple and gold, so when I go back home to visit, I see a lot of purple. And I live in a college town where the college colors are orange and black. Orange is always in style here.)

 

Why is purple so bad? (I've always liked it, and not just because of my school growing up and not just because when I was in third grade I was in love with Donny Osmond.)

[Bebecat]

When I hear pink, purple and orange, I see sunsets. But I had no idea that purple was considered death in fashion. (I know a lot of people who wear purple and orange -- although not together -- though. My high school colors were purple and gold, so when I go back home to visit, I see a lot of purple. And I live in a college town where the college colors are orange and black. Orange is always in style here.)

 

Why is purple so bad? (I've always liked it, and not just because of my school growing up and not just because when I was in third grade I was in love with Donny Osmond.)

At least you were only in third grade...I think I was in fifth or sixth when I loved him. But never as much as Davy Jones or David Cassidy.

As for Ashley...I was not really wild over her first week's look and don't think the second look team thing should have won at all. I am not really seeing her as a top contender, more like a decoy, i.e someone the judges seem to favor early on (maybe to keep her in the mix) but will progressively begin to "disappoint" them.

[Kromm]

I remember that and I disagree with the fabric sabotage theory, too. I just don't think the teams actually got to select their own color palettes. I think they were assigned the colors and that comment was Joseph cementing the fact that they were supposed to go for the blue, green and yellow. At the end of the paint ball battle the uniforms of all the men, the Blue Team, were covered in just blue, green and yellow paint, while all the Red Team women's uniforms were splattered with only pink and orange. That's why I think the colors were assigned. Someone somewhere screwed up, though, because Merline had been hit with only pink.

 

I also agree that the women's colors went together just as well as the men's. Their colors would have worked fine in the hands of more talented designers. It was their attempt to actually design with color, as the men and Merline did, that helped screw them up.

You aren't saying the opposite of my theory though. We've agreed they had no real choice about what they got.

 

The only thing we've disagreed with is on how well the colors worked for each team. I believe pink, purple and orange are inherently far worse colors than blue, green and gold. That's why I think it was producer sabotage. Again, not specifically against the girls per se, but they knew one team would get far worse colors. Regardless of who was on it (you'd have to have button bag conspiracy theories and them suggesting a pick order to the contestants for it to be specific though). They just wanted an imbalance and conflict.  That's not saying that talented designers couldn't do better with purple, pink and orange than the girls did, or fight less, but it is a theory that the Happy Happy Joy Joy of the Men's Team was at least in part because they got some pretty darned good luck being the team with those colors.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Kromm

[Calamity Jane]

At least you were only in third grade...I think I was in fifth or sixth when I loved him. But never as much as Davy Jones or David Cassidy.

As for Ashley...I was not really wild over her first week's look and don't think the second look team thing should have won at all. I am not really seeing her as a top contender, more like a decoy, i.e someone the judges seem to favor early on (maybe to keep her in the mix) but will progressively begin to "disappoint" them.

I am a complete fashion dolt (despite watching PR all these years), and so I have been puzzled by all the praise for Ashley, too.  I've been happy for her, but just honestly not seeing what the judges were loving so much. 

[Julia]

I am a complete fashion dolt (despite watching PR all these years), and so I have been puzzled by all the praise for Ashley, too.  I've been happy for her, but just honestly not seeing what the judges were loving so much. 

 

I have no idea what they're seeing, because I rarely understand what they're seeing, but what I've appreciated about Ashley's designs is that you don't have to weigh 95 pounds to wear them. And I'm not saying that as a slam on 95 pound women - my cousin's daughter, who I'm very fond of, is a model who works at fashion week - but it's kind of refreshing to see clothes that flatter the women wearing them instead of clothes the woman wearing them has to have a perfect body to wear.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Julia

[theatremouse]

I believe pink, purple and orange are inherently far worse colors than blue, green and gold. That's why I think it was producer sabotage. Again, not specifically against the girls per se, but they knew one team would get far worse colors. Regardless of who was on it (you'd have to have button bag conspiracy theories and them suggesting a pick order to the contestants for it to be specific though). They just wanted an imbalance and conflict.

I'm not saying I believe this but something that just barely occurred to me during the episode was the colors seemed sort of...gender split. As were the teams (mostly). It was clear the producers decided ahead of time one team would get purple/pink/orange and the other blue/green/yellow. Now I'm not of the belief that "blue is a boy color" or any of that shit, and they were all designing women's wear anyway; however, given that there do exist many folks who live in the camp of "blue+green are for boys, purple+pink are for girls" it did strike me as odd that when the teams happen to be nearly split on gender, and the fabric colors did seem to have been split up in advance for the paintball battle (hence the splatter matched the fabric), it was a little weird that they aligned it the way they did. And if one did want to go the conspiracy theorist route, someone above said Merline got splattered in pink? Which makes me wonder if maybe the intention all along were for the girls (regardless of how the team selection went) to get splattered in those specific colors. At the same time, since they were supposedly shooting each other under their own power, I don't know how the paint could've been rigged per-person rather than per whole team, unless those attacking were given specific targets, rather than just being able to hit whoever they could.

The whole paintball thing was super weird as I watched it anyway. There were clearly rules the contestants had explained to them that were never remotely suggested to the audience. It didn't work the way paintball does; it seemed like maybe if you got hit you had to go back, but then other times I thought I saw people getting hit and continuing on anyway. It was intentionally convoluted to attempt to obscure that it wasn't really about the fabric; but made it visually entirely baffling to me as a viewer. Bad game design right there (and I mean that both about the paintball challenge game itself and how it rolled into the larger show 'game'.) I demand consistent internal logic, dammit! (I know I will never get that from this show.)

Edited September 7, 2015 by theatremouse

[RedheadZombie]

I think the women let the extra day lure them into a false sense of security. There was very little urgency in the women's group, while the blue group quickly came to a consensus and divided up work. At one point on day one, every woman was playing around with the paint and over working (destroying) their white fabric. Every single one of them! Oh look at that. Wow look at this. Oh gee we have to wait until tomorrow so the fabric dries. Only to decide the patterns weren't "chic" and discard it all. They wasted most of day one.

[Muffyn]

Agree that blue was an easier color to work with than purple, pink and orange.  The M+M team also seemed to understand earlier that they didn’t need to use all of their colors.  They focused on blue; Swapnil added a hint of yellow.  But the other very smart thing the M+M team did was create a textile based on a softened shade of blue.  The accent material they were given looked very cheap on my TV – too shiny and thin.  M+M relied on the cotton sheeting and jumpsuits and elevated it. They used the pure blue as an accent.  Nina mentioned how good their fabric looked; it was only when she felt it that she could confirm it was the cotton.  

 

Since the all women team ruined all of their sheeting, they needed to rely heavily on the cheap looking purple material.  If you look at the rack of the sheeting that the women had dyed, a lot of it did look more pastel.  However, they seemed to have all of their colors on each piece.  The only one we got to see them create was the smash the paint balls version.  If they shook it out, it reminded me of the material that Candace and Ashley used on their winning cape (not a look I particularly liked but the judges did).  However, even if they decided to use this, they only had one piece to share among them since they had done other treatments to their other material.

[Tony]

God that was truly awful.

 

Although I was doing something else while watching this so my attention was only half there, I didn't see much bullying or mean girl. Ashley brought her past emotional baggage from home with her and made herself the victim. She didn't contribute at all during the brainstorming and just cowered in the background bitching how the other girls were too loud. Also, how the girls managed to keep themselves from smacking Blake while he was lecturing them during deliberation was a miracle. That little snot managed to earn a spot as one of PR's most annoying designers. Congratulations asshole.

 

 

 

It really bothered me that Heidi had them look at Ashley’s look first as one of the worst.  I felt like she was swayed by the mean girls throwing Ashley into the bottom.

 

Or maybe Heidi thought the outfit was one of the worst there, which I agree it is. That amateurish pleated collar atrocity is pretty damn bad. Amanda was the right person to go home, but Ashley was definitely a close second for that outfit.

 

 

 

Those eyes...

 

You mean those fake colored contacts?

Edited September 7, 2015 by Tony

[film noire]

Purple is considered death though in fashion. It's NEVER fashionable.  Nor is Pink. 

 

If you do a google search for designers + purple (using everyone from Thierry Mugler to Carolina Herrera to Rodarte to Clare McCardell to Alexander McQueen to Lagerfeld to Gucci to Prada -- and all points in between) you'll find purple.  Schiaparelli not only worked with pink, there's a shade named after her. Chanel does pink, Givenchy did pink, and Madame Gres not only did pink, it was polka dotted, with a chiffon overlay and a giant charcoal bow -- and it's a gorgeous dress. Gianni ("Thanks, I bought it at Versase!") Versace did/does pink, and purple, and pink and purple together -- so  I don't think the woman can blame the colors as the reason they lacked creativity, vision or style.

Edited September 7, 2015 by film noire

[Kromm]

If you do a google search for designers + purple (using everyone from Thierry Mugler to Carolina Herrera to Rodarte to Clare McCardell to Alexander McQueen to Lagerfeld to Gucci to Prada -- and all points in between) you'll find purple.  Schiaparelli not only worked with pink, there's a shade named after her. Chanel does pink, Givenchy did pink, and Madame Gres not only did pink, it was polka dotted, with a chiffon overlay and a giant charcoal bow -- and it's a gorgeous dress. Gianni ("Thanks, I bought it at Versase!") Versace did/does pink, and purple, and pink and purple together -- so  I don't think the woman can blame the colors as the reason they lacked creativity, vision or style.

Maybe. But I doubt it was those particular shades we saw. The show had clown versions.

 

And I really don't understand the resistance to admitting it was a disadvantage. "Disadvantage" doesn't mean they were fated to lose. Or even to do badly. It just means there was a greater likelihood they would.  There's a difference between an "excuse" and a mitigating factor. This is that second thing. It was a harder task due to the colors. It could have been overcome.  It wasn't.

 

The only really controversial thing I think I said was that I felt the men probably would have turned in a bad performance too if they'd had those colors.  Clearly that's only speculation. I never said that the REASON the women did badly was just the colors. Far from it. It was a reason. Not the reason.

[film noire]

Maybe. But I doubt it was those particular shades we saw. The show had clown versions.

 

There's no "maybe" about it -- pink and purple have been used endlessly by high end designers, for decades -- and in shades less easy to use than the ones seen on PR (Betsey Johnson's "punk label" purples would've reduced these hack designers to sobs of panic).  

 

 

And I really don't understand the resistance to admitting it was a disadvantage.

 

I'm not resisting; I'm disagreeing with you.

Edited September 7, 2015 by film noire

[pasdetrois]

I can't fault Candice for attempting to be a leader. Someone has to try to organize these wacky team challenges with mis-matched personalities, and she probably thought that if things went well it would benefit her ranking in the competition. I like that she had the confidence to try.

 

What I saw her doing in this episode was try really hard to stay on top of the competitive aspect of the game even as things were happening very quickly. She tried to lead while maintaining her composure and positive attitude. Her biggest error was in not pausing for five minutes to listen to what Ashley was suggesting: taking time to formulate a plan.

 

I do feel in hindsight that this episode was deliberately manipulated by production pushing Ashley's buttons; giving the women crappy colors; and extremely selective and misleading editing.

 

But having said that, the other team clearly excelled.

Edited September 7, 2015 by pasdetrois

[Beden]

 

as if she was a combination of kindergarten teacher and female gothy Tim Gunn. As if she has won every single runway and knows she is a shoe in for taking it all.

 

Arrogance.

The main thing I took from this episode (aside from the obvious fact that the men's team seriously had their shit more together, acted like adults dealing with a challenge and gave good evidence that --as a group--are more professional and able to work cooperatively) was that there was a definite 'special snowflake' vibe to most of the women. I got the feeling that they'd been petted and praised from an early age about how talented they are, how creative, how far they'll go and all of that and were seemingly acting on the assumption that it would all work out in the end because of how wonderful they are as individuals. While I don't doubt that they've all had set backs and bumps in their various roads, it struck me that losing or being told that their collection sucked wasn't a possibility and couldn't possibly happen....despite hints when they looked over at the other team and commented that they seemed to be further ahead during the process.

[Miss Scarlet]

Between the small amount of time devoted to the Mean Girl story and the choppy editing, I can't really tell what was  going on. After Ashley was picked last someone mentioned that the teams just chose their roommates and friends. I know they showed it in the first episode, but I can't remember who's roommates with who. Is it Merline, Laurie and Ashley in one room and Candice, Amanda, Kelly and Lindsey in the other?

 

I've found it very interesting that whenever situations like these arise on reality shows, people seem to assume that the thin or pretty women are the Mean Girls and the larger or less attractive women are the victims of the situation when a lot of times in real life I've actually seen the opposite scenario play out. I've seen many larger or unattractive women who were completely unfairly mean to the thin/pretty women, yet it's the thin/pretty women who get unfairly labelled as Mean Girls. I remember I once saw one of the "Cool Kids" in a high school smile and try to be friendly to one of the larger girls in the class and the girl actually angrily screamed back at her "Why are you smiling?!" and started berating her to the point where she nearly cried. Not saying that this was the case on this episode of PR or that Ashley's actually a mean and angry person, just pointing out that it does happen even though a lot of people's assumption are that it works the opposite way.

[Julia]

Did you notice that in your story you put the thin and pretty person on one side of that transaction and the fat and unattractive person on the other? Not, say, the popular athlete and the surly president of the chess club, or the thin person and the fat person, or the attractive girl and the unattractive girl? Or in this case, the three young women who behaved poorly on the runway and the young woman they tried to eliminate from the competition?

That might be one reason.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Julia

[Passing Strange]

The only thing we've disagreed with is on how well the colors worked for each team.

 

That's true. What I disagree with is the conclusion that one of the disadvantages the women had was their colors. Lifetime has episode photos posted. In one the women are standing with their fabric; two shades of purple, three of pink/red and two of orange. They also had access to a blue and a yellow in the form of paint, as they're shown using it on their white material. There's a shot of the barrel that held the men's material. It looks like there are four shades of green and maybe three of blue, plus one of yellow.

 

Although each team had colors in a particular range, neither team had colors that all went well together. There was some serious clashing in both assortments. The trick was to narrow down to a harmonious combination. Both teams had a similar chance of that, because they both had several options within the range of colors they'd been assigned. Had the women given some thought to their color story before randomly throwing paint on cloth they wouldn't have painted themselves into a corner and been stuck with the purple.

 

 

[Miss Scarlet]

 

Also still can't stand  Jake or Joseph, whose disdain for women is quite stunning.

 

I noticed this from the first episode. They belong to that class of gay men who loathe women.

It really is quite amazing. I think it comes down to 2 things - 1) it's their way of retaining power in a patriarchal society (like "I'm gay, but at least I'm not a useless, dumb woman!") plus anger at being compared to women and 2) I'm sure they're just bitter because women never want to buy the clothes they design. So instead of listening to their customer they assume she's idiotic and wrong and that everything they're doing is so fabulous that women just can't see it.

 

 

 

Did you notice that in your story you put the thin and pretty person on one side of that transaction and the fat and unattractive person on the other? Not, say, the popular athlete and the surly president of the chess club, or the thin person and the fat person, or the attractive girl and the unattractive girl? Or in this case, the three young women who behaved poorly on the runway and the young woman they tried to eliminate from the competition?

That might be one reason.

Sorry, I'm not quite following what you're saying. I said larger or unattractive, not larger and unattractive and not assuming that those two qualities always go together. And the examples you listed also put people with opposite qualities on separate sides of the transaction. I just used these descriptions and this example because it seems in-line with what has been discussed over the last 7 pages. Again, I'm not saying this is how I interpreted what happened on this episode of PR. From what we were shown it seemed like Ashley (for whatever reason) was treated unfairly. But I'm just pointing out that sometimes there are women who are automatically labelled as "Mean Girls" when it's not really the case and that it can be unfair to them.

[kelslamu]

I wish Ashley would have thought that she'd been through this behavior with other mean girls and this time she'd show them exactly what talent she has.  A you can think what you want, but I'll show you the truth.  You don't have any friends in a competition.  I'm sorry.  Unless you go in with someone you've known forever and even then they can turn.  Amanda could kill someone and say it wasn't her fault.  I would have stepped all over Candice and her look I'm Tim Gunn checking out what everyone is making and giving advice.  She did nothing but ACT like a leader and wasn't even very good at that.  

I liked that Blake didn't let the girls stop him from making his point.  I don't think most of them have been stopped from saying what they want no matter how harsh or untruthful.

I liked that Laurie simply wanted to and did tell the truth.  

Absolutely cannot stand Kelly Osbourne, but she did make a few valid points.

Even though I kind of like Edmond's design (except the other team challenge), I think Swapnil will turn out to be the better and more creative one.

Am I the only one who did not think Kelly's design was well constructed?  I couldn't believe Zach thought it was.

[Julia]

Did he say it was well-constructed or just that Kelly can sew and Amanda can't? Because I processed that conversation between Zac, Kelly and Nina as Why Amanda should go home even though Kelly's garment was clearly worse.

[NewDigs]

Did he say it was well-constructed or just that Kelly can sew and Amanda can't? Because I processed that conversation between Zac, Kelly and Nina as Why Amanda should go home even though Kelly's garment was clearly worse.

I have my tape (yes, tape) of this on as background noise right now.

Zac damned Kelly with faint praise saying that her garment, " Was not poorly made." Nina couldn't believe he said that and Heidi brought up the bad taste issue.

Nina said that Amanda made a tent but that it was a well made tent. And she called Amanda "dead weight". Tim and Heidi commented that there were worse designs.

Nina also seemed to take exception to Amanda not listening to Nina's previous directions.

And I like Kelly Osbourne! I feel like I've watched her grow up. From the family's frequent Stern appearances, to their "reality" show to Fashion Police, etc. And I think some of her comments this go-round were quite astute.

[slothgirl]

Sorry, I should have clarified that I thought they were fucking around with the paint. Jake was experimenting with it like the girls were. It's just that he kept it to one color and did more controlled experiments to see how it behaved instead of just taking out all the white fabric and breaking the paint shells on it.

The big difference in my mind is that the Blue team committed ONE person to experiment with paint, even if that was going to mean he wouldn't have enough time to do a look without help. They added one other person to subsequently do some painted on flowers after looks were assembled. They trusted these two teammates and hunkered down on their own designs instead of having a free-for-all with everyone randomly throwing paint balls as though the fabric was the guys' team and the paintball game was still going on!

 

blue, lime green, and neon yellow (which I believe were the colors), those colors do indeed blend together, just as pink, purple, and orange could have but didn't.

 

Picture the blue team's designs exactly as they were but instead of  blue, they were purple/lavender with the yellow traded out for the orange, and the exact same thing could have been accomplished. Colors had nothing to do with it. Execution did.

On my screen (and on the one that I did my re-watch) the Blue team's fabric colors were sky blue, a light aqua, and a pale soft yellow. I wouldn't have called the green "lime" or the yellow "neon". None of them were strong colors, and IMO, they blend much better that the fabric colors of the Red Team. YMMV on how your tv represented the colors.

 

Purple is considered death though in fashion. It's NEVER fashionable.  Nor is Pink. That was the women's options (made worse by the fact that they were given no true Reds to use--even the paint was Pink).

 "All Purple" would have read Barney even more than it did. All Pink, like a Day Care center exploded. And if the last one was Orange as you've said?  I don't know how that wouldn't have been a nightmare too.

 

They had the option to MIX a neutral color from the bright paint colors they were given and use it translucently. They had the option to use a fair amount of that silver fabric and use the brighter colors as accents (which a couple of looks tried to do, but it was not used as a unifying theme).

 

I remember that and I disagree with the fabric sabotage theory, too. I just don't think the teams actually got to select their own color palettes. I think they were assigned the colors and that comment was Joseph cementing the fact that they were supposed to go for the blue, green and yellow. At the end of the paint ball battle the uniforms of all the men, the Blue Team, were covered in just blue, green and yellow paint, while all the Red Team women's uniforms were splattered with only pink and orange. That's why I think the colors were assigned. Someone somewhere screwed up, though, because Merline had been hit with only pink.

 

I also agree that the women's colors went together just as well as the men's. Their colors would have worked fine in the hands of more talented designers. It was their attempt to actually design with color, as the men and Merline did, that helped screw them up.

 

 

As I remember it, the fabrics meant for the other team were not there to be captured during each team's quest. I remember Joseph's comment being that they should focus on the blue options within their given choice of blue, green, yellow, but they got pretty much all the bolts from the barrels and therefore had all 3 when they were standing there.

 

 

Merline got splattered in pink? Which makes me wonder if maybe the intention all along were for the girls (regardless of how the team selection went) to get splattered in those specific colors. At the same time, since they were supposedly shooting each other under their own power, I don't know how the paint could've been rigged per-person rather than per whole team, unless those attacking were given specific targets, rather than just being able to hit whoever they could.

It seemed to me that one team tried to get fabric while being shot and pelted, and then the other team. If both teams had tried at the same time, "friendly fire" might have meant everyone could get hit with all colors. Of course, it would have been pretty easy to tell the teams apart if they were all fighting at the same time, and Merline got hit with Pink because Joseph shot at anyone female... cause he's Joseph.

 

Even if they weren't all fighting at the same time, I can see Joseph shooting Merline just because he's Joseph. ;)

[slothgirl]

there was a definite 'special snowflake' vibe to most of the women. I got the feeling that they'd been petted and praised from an early age about how talented they are, how creative, how far they'll go and all of that and were seemingly acting on the assumption that it would all work out in the end because of how wonderful they are as individuals. While I don't doubt that they've all had set backs and bumps in their various roads, it struck me that losing or being told that their collection sucked wasn't a possibility and couldn't possibly happen....despite hints when they looked over at the other team and commented that they seemed to be further ahead during the process.

On my re-watch, I was surprised at how many of the girl's Talking heads were focused on each dissing her own outfit. I hadn't remembered that from first viewing. I don't think any one of them thought they were a shoe-in to win as a team or as individuals on this challenge. They also spent a fair amount of the challenge (from what we were shown) saying they were doing badly. Whatever unjustified confidence may have originally brought them to PR, by day 2 of this challenge, they weren't exhibiting it much!

Edited September 7, 2015 by slothgirl

[justawatcher]

Both looks by Pucci. Both looks with very similar colors to the challenge.

Edited September 7, 2015 by justawatcher

[Kromm]

The issue is the red.  While I suppose the women may have had a way to create that color, unless they made that leap (and succeeded in doing so) they didn't have any true reds. The "red team" naming of the team aside, what they had to start with was pink, not red.  I think it makes a huge difference, because the moment you introduce a dark richer hue, then a look gets grounded.  IMO if you take that nice purple and red dress above and change all of the red to pink, then it becomes a bit of a mess (even if the actual cut of the thing and fit is still nice).

 

IMO the blue and yellow look above is hideous, but of course that's not inherently because of the colors. Even the best colors can be used badly.  

 

Again, I'm just talking about advantages and disadvantages. Just as the best colors can be used badly, so can the worst colors be used well... at least decently if not excellently. 

[seasick]

I agree the first.. but not really the second look.  i have no dog in this tussle, but I have to agree that it was indeed possible to do something fantastic with what they had.

 

They could say.. for example;  'but we only have greeting cards to work with!" ...  but then here comes Edmund with the most Fab wedding gown.  

I don't have that kind of creativity..but there are those who can rock just about anything.  Those are the moments that light up the show for me.

[kelslamu]

I'll have to rewatch.  Got it wrong as I thought he praised it.  I'm just not sure I can rewatch that mess.  

[EyesGlazed]

BRUTAL episode!  Bruuuuutal!

 

But before I get to the meanness, first I want to say Word! to this:

 

"Tim usually saves the 'disadvantaged' one.. ( I beleive he saved Sharkina because she was from dead and decaying Detroit..otherwise...no way)"

Sorry my skills on quoting someone are not great but then I am from dead and decaying Detroit :-). Seriously come visit, we get a bad rap (some deserved but some not). There are lots of good, creative people here - world class jazz festival this weekend. Sometimes we feel like the world is very mean girls on us but unlike Ashley we have had more time to grow a tougher skin.

I was born and raised in "the D" (good sign that it now has a "cool" nickname?  we never called it that) and I love going back to visit.  Try it some time!  

My theory about Ashley is that there was some kind of leak to the contestants that the challenge would involve a physical contest, and consequently they chose the obese person last.  This seems to me the only rational explanation for why Ashley, who obviously has design chops and seemed to be getting along with the others, was picked last.  And it would explain why Heidi was so surprised, if she were unaware that the contestants knew a physical activity was coming.  But the problem with the theory is that Ashley did not seem to be in on the leak; she immediately attributed her being picked last to being unpopular.  Or maybe nobody could admit there had been a leak?

 

Kelly Osbourne in her low cut, boob smashing outfit with purple shaved hair and a perpetual sour expression on her face is some kind of fashion expert? She really thinks she's all that. The other designer lady judge hardly got a word in edgewise because of her. I'll be sure to not watch Junior Project Runway if Kelly Osbourne is the host.

You said it, sister.  I am sick of undeserving celebrity offspring getting employment just because of who their parents are.  My favorite example of this is Jenna Bush as a talking head on the Today show.

 

As for the mean girls, you all have said it so well that I have little to add.  I was liking Candice, now I do not.  She could have gone home for multiple failures of leadership, design, taking responsibility, candor and professionalism.  Kelly's outfit was the worst, and I'll be a mean girl too and ask why Kelly looks like she dumpster dove for her outfits and when was the last time she washed or combed her hair.  Amanda has taken up too much screen time already, so I'm happy to see her go.  

 

[Anastasia]

I think the girls could have had a gorgeous Boho look even with the Easter Egg fabric had they used a dark color to paint dotted Boho-type flowers or some other Boho design over the Easter Egg fabric and introduced the orange supplemental fabric instead of the purple. Their beginning  Easter Egg Explosion  works when Tim visited were vastly better than the Purplepalooza that they sent down the runway. I don't remember when I have seen a group collectively lose their brainpower at the same time like that. SMH

 

[seasick]

BRUTAL episode!  Bruuuuutal!

 

But before I get to the meanness, first I want to say Word! to this:

 

I was born and raised in "the D" (good sign that it now has a "cool" nickname?  we never called it that) and I love going back to visit.  Try it some time!  

 

 

.  

My apologies, "D girls" !!  It wasn't meant to insult although perhaps it did.  I mourn for the loss of the big "Motor City" days not just for Detroit, but for industries we lost in so many cities, and that's what I was referencing.   I'm sure its people are cool, creative and industrious. (as was Sharkita),  I just didn't like her fashion looks.  

[slothgirl]

My apologies, "D girls" !!  It wasn't meant to insult although perhaps it did.  I mourn for the loss of the big "Motor City"

Motor City is still there... it's now a casino!

[Kromm]

No one said the purple/red team had to use the paint at full strength....

Pink made lighter is still pink. The problem was that they needed darker shades, like red.

 

Again, this isn't a catchall to say they couldn't do anything, but I'm just saying that lightening the paint wasn't going to fix that particular problem.

[guilfoyleatpp]

If you do a google search for designers + purple (using everyone from Thierry Mugler to Carolina Herrera to Rodarte to Clare McCardell to Alexander McQueen to Lagerfeld to Gucci to Prada -- and all points in between) you'll find purple.  Schiaparelli not only worked with pink, there's a shade named after her. Chanel does pink, Givenchy did pink, and Madame Gres not only did pink, it was polka dotted, with a chiffon overlay and a giant charcoal bow -- and it's a gorgeous dress. Gianni ("Thanks, I bought it at Versase!") Versace did/does pink, and purple, and pink and purple together -- so  I don't think the woman can blame the colors as the reason they lacked creativity, vision or style.

Evidence that my computer is stalking me - was looking at Macy's dresses (having a rocking sale this weekend) and one of the options that came up was "Purple dress."  The other options were "Casual," "Night Out" and :Wear to Work."

[Pallida]

The Project Runway website is freaking terrible.  I wanted to look at the photos to be reminded of how the Red Team treated their fabrics, and it's pissing me off trying to load the pictures.  On Picture 7, if anybody wants to suffer through the gallery, it shows the team having access to what looks like a true red fabric on my screen.  Picture 15 shows the Blue team with jars of paint, so I don't believe either team was limited to the paintball colors.  Instead, I think the team chose the purple + Easter Egg color scheme.

 

I don't even hate their color scheme.  Amanda's almost watercolor fabric was almost neat.  It just needed some work.  (Or less work!  It kind of reminds me of when I've tried to do watercolor, seriously overwork it, and crumble it up in a frustrated ball.)

 

I think it'll be quite interesting if there's a design-a-textile challenge this season.  Sure, computers are more forgiving for the "throw it all at the fabric and see what works" technique, but I wonder if some of these designers will crash and burn at the graphic design.

[SlackerInc]

The consensus here seems to be agreement with Amanda being auf'd.  I'm dumbfounded by this, as I thought her look was the best of the episode (not just on her team but of both teams combined).  AINEC for my money.  Huh.  I guess I just have bad taste.

 

It turned out not to really matter, but Blake's refusal to participate in paintball really bugged.  He's lucky this isn't a Survivor-type reality show, where his fellow contestants can vote him out.

 

I hate Kelly Osbourne but she was right. The girl team was a bitch fest. I hate schoolyard picks and I can't believe they picked Ashley last. I felt so bad for her.

 

They were a bitch fest, in fact; but Kelly didn't observe any valid reasons for that, and her objection struck me as very unfair from her vantage point.  They were asked to go one by one and throw someone under the bus.  The first person in line tried to demur, saying something about it being a team effort, and was basically slapped down and ordered to pick someone.  So she picked Ashley, as did the next couple people (it's good strategy in these circumstances to just go with the consensus so any hard feelings are diffused among multiple "offenders").  Then Kelly Osbourne interjected and complained that they were singling Ashley out rather than taking responsibility as a group!  FFS, they were specifically prohibited from doing that just seconds earlier.

Edited September 8, 2015 by SlackerInc

[auntlada]

The Project Runway website is freaking terrible.  I wanted to look at the photos to be reminded of how the Red Team treated their fabrics, and it's pissing me off trying to load the pictures.  On Picture 7, if anybody wants to suffer through the gallery, it shows the team having access to what looks like a true red fabric on my screen.  Picture 15 shows the Blue team with jars of paint, so I don't believe either team was limited to the paintball colors.  Instead, I think the team chose the purple + Easter Egg color scheme.

 

I don't even hate their color scheme.  Amanda's almost watercolor fabric was almost neat.  It just needed some work.  (Or less work!  It kind of reminds me of when I've tried to do watercolor, seriously overwork it, and crumble it up in a frustrated ball.)

 

I think it'll be quite interesting if there's a design-a-textile challenge this season.  Sure, computers are more forgiving for the "throw it all at the fabric and see what works" technique, but I wonder if some of these designers will crash and burn at the graphic design.

Amanda's skirt (the one she's wearing) on the runway looks a lot like some of their ruined fabric? Did she whip out the tent dress and then make herself a skirt?

[theatremouse]

I thought it looked more similar to the blue team's fabric, or rather, something the blue team could've come up with with their fabric+paint. IIRC her skirt was blue+purplish flowers. So yeah, if she went purple on purple, they could've made a similar pattern and all their stuff would've looked way better that tie dye easter egg hunt of bad construction hootenanny.

[Kromm]

They were a bitch fest, in fact; but Kelly didn't observe any valid reasons for that, and her objection struck me as very unfair from her vantage point.  They were asked to go one by one and throw someone under the bus.  The first person in line tried to demur, saying something about it being a team effort, and was basically slapped down and ordered to pick someone.  So she picked Ashley, as did the next couple people (it's good strategy in these circumstances to just go with the consensus so any hard feelings are diffused among multiple "offenders").  Then Kelly Osbourne interjected and complained that they were singling Ashley out rather than taking responsibility as a group!  FFS, they were specifically prohibited from doing that just seconds earlier.

Yeah, I tried to make that point, but you've probably said it better.  Heidi is usually the one to do things like this, but I guess Kelly O. was just channeling Heidi.