S03.E12: The Awakening

[formerlyfreedom]

Nolan, Amanda and Irisa search for a way to stop invulnerable Kindzi from waking and transporting more Omec to Earth; Datak seeks escape from a deadly compound; and Stahma implores Alak for forgiveness before it's too late.

 

 

[mustbekarma]

Oh, Irisa, you're so sweet that you think talking will stop the Purple People Eaters. Not a single one hesitated at eating people. Kill them all, burn the corpses, and salt the ashes. Part of me wanted them to see the Purple People Eaters eat a human and then die screaming in agony.

 

Millions vs. thousands? I'm thinking Omec's Last Stand. Get 'em, Butcher.

 

I swear, if they let Petulant Purple People Eater eat that adorable baby, then I' m finished with Defiance. It's bad enough that Petulant killed Alak's possible love interest, but to threaten the baby? Die, bitch, die!

 

I cannot think of any scenario where this doesn't end in genocide.

 

At least mama's back, and she's pissed.

[raven]

Nice cliffhanger ending, though I don't think this is the show for baby eating.

 

FINALLY someone pulled that thing out of Yewll's neck.  The actress does a lot with her eyes; covered under all that makeup, she manages to convey emotion.  Glad she could take out some frustrations on an Omec.  Ugh, they are gross eaters.  So they consider themselves a master race because they're stronger?  They're not smarter.

 

So Datak's mechanical arm came with some upgrades!  He is at his best when being snarky and defiant in ridiculous circumstances.  I was expecting his laser knife but a sword to the head will do. 

 

I wonder if Stahma was playing a game to get Alak and Luke to go with her but it backfired.  I can never be sure with her, good job show.  I was hoping Datak would show up.  Can Kindzi recover from having her head sliced off; inquiring minds want to know.

 

And Amanda, don't fret over letting the Omec in town.  You were hoping for the best and almost got there.  Compared to things Nolan, Datak and Stahma have done, you're OK.

 

The vet lives!  and gets to see his savior, Nolan, hee.  Datak's sarcastic "he's swell" cracked me up.  All in all, good episode. 

[mustbekarma]

Can Kindzi recover from having her head sliced off; inquiring minds want to know.

 

I think decapitation kills virtually everything. They could at least try it and find out. Or at least enough head shots to blow her head to smithereens. Grenade launcher, anyone? I wonder who would win, a hellbug or a Purple People Eater? Let's find out.

[johntfs]

It's a testament to Nicole Galicia that I still feel bad for Kindzi even as she threatens to eat a baby.

[raven]

Decapitation didn't kill Lorne on Angel but this -

I wonder who would win, a hellbug or a Purple People Eater? Let's find out.

Yes, let's!

 

 

Nicole Galicia

Didn't know who she is - wow, she's gorgeous.

[thuganomics85]

Should have known that all this focus on Andina/Tarr handmaiden, was so she can get killed off, instead of be Alak's next love interest.  It's dangerous being a recurring character in Defiance.  It's too bad, since I was kind of curious to see where they might go with her and Stahma.  Eh, I guess that just adds to the theory that the show is probably heading into a Irisa/Alak pairing soon (assuming we get another season.)

 

At this rate, Defiance should start a support group for people who killed people or let people died, while mind controlled or screwed up by alien tech.  Both Irisa and Nolan are card carrying members, and now Yewll has joined them.  I'm glad Nolan told her to put it aside, until they take care of the Omec invasion, but I have to think her feeding some of the prisoners to the Omec, will haunt her for a while.  I'm just glad the device finally got yanked out of her.  And there doesn't seem to be any side effects.  Her gunning down the Omec was great way to show Dr. Yewll is back.

 

Speaking of badass, should have known Datak's robotic arm would have a spike in it, and he would know when to use it.  I just hope he has other tricks up his sleeve/in his arm.  Maybe a rocket launcher.  That would be a big help.

 

Amanda has her own little freakout and even considers giving up, so maybe now she knows how Berlin felt that time she left.

 

So.... Kindzi is basically threatening to kill Baby Luke.  Yep, we've gone to "harming baby" territory with her, so there is no way it's not going to end with her death, I have to think.  That's usually a line that, once crossed, doesn't end with a mere capture or redemption.  The question is how to you kill her, since bullets don't work. Decapitation?  Blow up?  Or maybe Yewll will find a way to screw around with the mind control device, and they can control her!

[SmithW6079]

It's a testament to Nicole Galicia that I still feel bad for Kindzi even as she threatens to eat a baby.

I don't. What's to feel sorry for? She's a complete sociopath. She killed her father, she's leading an invasion of Earth so her people can, you know, eat other sentient beings, and she delights in torturing Stahma. Plus, she's going to eat a fucking baby. They should capture her, flay her alive and carve her up as slowly and painfully as possible.

And what the hell kind of predators are the Omec anyway? They're cowards who eat their prey who are chained and can't escape. It's like when they stock birds to release so wealthy hunters can be ensured of getting something to kill.

[wayne67]

And what the hell kind of predators are the Omec anyway? They're cowards who eat their prey who are chained and can't escape. It's like when they stock birds to release so wealthy hunters can be ensured of getting something to kill.

 

The kind of predators that have been sleeping for presumably thousands of years and are jet lagged. They aren't at their best.

 

I did find it nice that Datak's insult provided some backstory for the indogene. They were made out of stem cells to serve as slaves/bandages for the Omec.

 

I really hope they're not going with all the Omec hitting the single town because that would be ridiculous but I have a terrible feeling they are going to lemming rush the town of Defiance that has defeated armies every season finale and has already taken out one large army this season.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I swear, if they let Petulant Purple People Eater eat that adorable baby, then I' m finished with Defiance. It's bad enough that Petulant killed Alak's possible love interest, but to threaten the baby? Die, bitch, die!

 

All I could think of in that scene was a couple of quotes from Fat Bastard in Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me.

 

Baby -- the other, other white meat.

 

Baby -- it's what's for dinner.

[Christina]

I'm hoping the finale begins with a blade appearing through Kindzi's neck, and as the camera backs away, we see Datak and his new arm. Then the Omec that have been questioning her about T'evgin dying, and overhearing the comments from everyone, including Datak telling Kinzi they couldn't loose many more Omecs, will make a peace agreement between the Omec's and Defiance.

 

Kindzi killed her dad by slicing his throat, then gut, so Datak can kill her the same way. With no Omecs around to eat her heart, no one will have the superpower, and the race will have to make friends or move to Australia. In no case does Kindzi eat the baby. This show pushes boundaries, but that one goes too far, I think. Instead, Datak kills her and the family has pancakes. Then they realize they can bribe the others with pancakes (with fruit!), and Stahma and Datak help broker the peace accord, and the townsfolk love them again.

[wayne67]

Every time Kidzi shows up on the screen I start singing "that girl is a problem" over and over again.

[GaT]

No way this show is going for baby eating, that would just be too much.

 

I suspect of Stahma "not realizing" that she was leading the Omec right to Alak, I think he was right & it was some kind of plot. I seem to have missed what happened to Datak after he stabbed the Omec, where did he go?

 

I thought next season would be "Irisa & Andina, the fight to be Alak's wife", but obviously they had Andina die so that there would be a clear path for Irisa. There better be a baby too.

Edited August 22, 2015 by GaT

[johntfs]

I don't. What's to feel sorry for? She's a complete sociopath. She killed her father, she's leading an invasion of Earth so her people can, you know, eat other sentient beings, and she delights in torturing Stahma. Plus, she's going to eat a fucking baby. They should capture her, flay her alive and carve her up as slowly and painfully as possible.

And what the hell kind of predators are the Omec anyway? They're cowards who eat their prey who are chained and can't escape. It's like when they stock birds to release so wealthy hunters can be ensured of getting something to kill.

 

Kindzi's a child.  She's not really all that different from that thing she's holding which pretty does nothing but produce shit, piss, noise and the occasional gurgle.

 

Physically and intellectually, Kindzi's an adult, or at least adultish.  Emotionally, though?  Figure she's ten, maybe twelve at the outside.  In terms of Kolberg's Theory of Moral Development Kindzi's reached Stage Two at best (and her father mostly treats her like she's at Stage One with his "Do as I say, not as I do or I'll beat your ass or freeze you.") 

 

Even beyond that Kindzi is not a human being and does not have human moralities.  As far as she's concerned, the resistance in Defiance isn't a war, it's something between a cattle stampede and a slave revolt.  She believes that because that's what her father taught her and he never bothered to teach her or allow her to experience something different.  Eventually she got tired of his increasingly irrational (to her) commands.

[Human]

I haven't seen anything about Kindzi that even remotely suggests she's an emotional child.  Someone with a child mentality isn't going to be able to successfully overthrow the equivalent of president.  There was some complex planning that went into it.  

[AngelKitty]

Can we please not see any more people get eaten? I think we get the idea. And wipe off your faces for god's sake!

[johntfs]

Kindzi is certainly capable of complex reasoning.  She's smart, even brilliant (much like Nicole Galicia with her 183 IQ).  Morally and emotionally, she functions as a child.  Her obedience to T'evgin stemmed from fear of punishment.  Kindzi attacked the Votan Collective caravan to rescue Nolan and performed careful surgery on him because... she liked him.  Because he gave her his coat to keep her warm when everyone else was being mean to her.  So, she was going to make him her special pet who got to live in her house while all the other long pork became bacon.  That's a child.

[Latverian Diplomat]

OK, T'evgin's Wolverine powers were enough of a stretch as it was, the fact that Kindzi got them by eating his organs (not just a symbolic ritual) is full blown magic. No thanks.

 

Ah, the old "No atheists in foxholes" cliche. Because atheists are still a safe group to take cheap pot shots at.

 

Goodbye Andina. You deserved better, and you will be missed. 

 

It was hard enough to believe that Stahma would show up at Alak's door the first time, but the second time was inexcusable. She genuinely cares for Alak and Luke. There's no way she would be so stupid. If this is all just a set up for a big calvary moment for Datak, well, it's just too contrived for my taste.

[Human]

Kindzi is certainly capable of complex reasoning.  She's smart, even brilliant (much like Nicole Galicia with her 183 IQ).  Morally and emotionally, she functions as a child.  Her obedience to T'evgin stemmed from fear of punishment.  Kindzi attacked the Votan Collective caravan to rescue Nolan and performed careful surgery on him because... she liked him.  Because he gave her his coat to keep her warm when everyone else was being mean to her.  So, she was going to make him her special pet who got to live in her house while all the other long pork became bacon.  That's a child.

That's Omec, not child.  It's not a display of poor impulse control.  The Omec make other species their pets and slaves and eat them.  That's just how they roll.  A fear of punishment is not exactly child-like. Datak and Stahma obeyed Rham out of fear, but they'd hardly be described as child-like. It's not as though Kindzi cowered and ran away to hide in a corner and even then, that wouldn't necessarily be child-like as protecting one's self from pain is just natural.  She obeyed because T'evgin was her superior in every way and that's the Omec way.  She also watched and monitored and planned and schemed and found a way to completely overpower a nearly indestructible being all because she thought he was doing the wrong thing for the Omec.  

Edited August 22, 2015 by Human

[AlwaysWatching]

They could make this the Doc Yewll show and I would be happy as hell. Everyone else is fading into the background for me. I will say that I have enjoyed this season the most.  In my opinion, the sad "killing off" of Alak's in laws did help the show tighten up a bit.  I haven't been totally crazy about all the personality changes -from Irisa, Nolan, and tonight's Amanda finally breaking down.  But, somehow, they all seemed to work. They got them over rather quickly and let us go to some crazy places.  For what Defiance is, the writing is rather good.  And "oh mah god" the lines they give Dr. Yewll.  I hope Defiance is renewed with a good size role for the lovable Doc.  If they, for some insane reason, decide to trim her out of the story....nah.

[HunterHunted]

I feel like I only comment about the trajectory of this season rather than the episodes. In the past, I've thought that this should be Deadwood with aliens and humans. But I've missed an obvious comparison: ST DS9.

I've been struck how this season in its attempts to expand the show's universe has limited it in a tremendous fashion. We've always known about the Votanis Collective, but to have so much of the story dedicated to their impending seige limited good stories that could have been toldtold about people deciding to stay or abandon Defiance because of the closure of the mines. We could have seen stories of a guerrilla version of the Earth Republic fighting an encroaching Votanis Collective that has nothing to do with Rahm Tak. We could have seen the impact of the actual cult worship of Irisa and how uncomfortable that made her both because of the death and pain she caused and how it triggered some of childhood issues. Given that Amanda made a deal to reopen the mine and share the gulanite with the Omec, there wasn't a single story beat about what Defiance is doing with their refreshed stores of gulanite. This was in motion far before Rahm Tak was on their doorstep.

Knowing full well that this show isn't going to travel too far from home, they need to double down and tell the kinds of stories that can be told when disparate groups of people gather at the fringes to try to make a life and their fortunes and not grand world changing stories. More often than not there is pathos in the mundane. And if they are going to tell epic world changing stories then this show just needs to embrace that Defiance is the Hellmouth and that constant political jockeying is going to be part of the future story for Defiance.

[zxy556575]

Can we please not see any more people get eaten? I think we get the idea. And wipe off your faces for god's sake!

 

I put my hand up in front of the TV when all that was going on because, my stomach.

 

Poor Yewll is going to have even more sins to expiate now. Interesting how everyone seemed to forgive her so quickly because she wasn't in control, but nobody is cutting Stahma or Datak any slack for what they did while under Rahm's thumb.

[SmithW6079]

I put my hand up in front of the TV when all that was going on because, my stomach.

Poor Yewll is going to have even more sins to expiate now. Interesting how everyone seemed to forgive her so quickly because she wasn't in control, but nobody is cutting Stahma or Datak any slack for what they did while under Rahm's thumb.

Maybe because Yewll was being controlled on a neurological level? Stahma and Datak, although acting under duress, still had free will and could have chosen not to carry out Rahm's orders, even at the loss of Alak.

I also thought they were too graphic with the feeding, especially the Irathian at the beginning, who was still alive in the distance during the feeding frenzy.

As much as I like Yewll, I wouldn't want a show around her. I think it would be a case of the Urkerl effect. I would, however, watch "The Machinations of Stahma."

Edited August 22, 2015 by SmithW6079

[johntfs]

That's Omec, not child.  It's not a display of poor impulse control.  The Omec make other species their pets and slaves and eat them.  That's just how they roll.  A fear of punishment is not exactly child-like. Datak and Stahma obeyed Rham out of fear, but they'd hardly be described as child-like. It's not as though Kindzi cowered and ran away to hide in a corner and even then, that wouldn't necessarily be child-like as protecting one's self from pain is just natural.  She obeyed because T'evgin was her superior in every way and that's the Omec way.  She also watched and monitored and planned and schemed and found a way to completely overpower a nearly indestructible being all because she thought he was doing the wrong thing for the Omec.  

 

Stahma and Datak obeyed Rahm Tak out of fear for the safety of their son.  That said, you're right and you've convinced me that Kindzi isn't really a child, though I think it's fair to say that her emotional development has been stunted by the nature of her relationship with T'evgin, who, as you stated, was her superior in every way.

[MrHufflepuff]

All I could think of in that scene was a couple of quotes from Fat Bastard in Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me.

 

Baby -- the other, other white meat.

 

Baby -- it's what's for dinner.

 

[Australian accent] An Omec ate my baby! [/Australian accent]

[mjc570]

" I would, however, watch "The Machinations of Stahma."

 

Me, too!

[johntfs]

[Australian accent] An Omec ate my baby! [/Australian accent]

 

Omecs Ate My Baby would also make an excellent name for a high school band in a small town afflicted by the supernatural.

[wanderingstar]

Can we please not see any more people get eaten? I think we get the idea. And wipe off your faces for god's sake!

 

Yes. This season has been entirely too gory for me.

 

Kindzi bet not eat that baby. And she can exit stage left any time now. Ideally, her fellow Omec would find out about her murdering T'evgin and handle her themselves.

[Black Knight]

The Omec have a truly stunning lack of self-awareness. I couldn't believe when that one guy was whining about how all the other races try to kill them, or whatever. Gosh, their animosity towards you wouldn't have anything to do with your Dread Harvest and routinely telling them they are inferior to you and fit only to be your slaves and then eaten, or just eaten without even the "honor" of being slaves first?

 

I was glad that someone called Amanda out on her decision-making where the Omec were concerned and that she took it to heart, because then she won't make a mistake like that again. (Too bad Nolan wasn't called out on it as well, but I suppose it wouldn't have mattered because he wouldn't acknowledge that it was a mistake anyway, and so he will do the same dumb thing again next time.) Yes, I understand that Defiance needed the gulanite in order to get the stasis nets back up, so making the deal did make sense. However, it was really the Omecs' mining equipment they needed, not the Omec themselves. After Amanda made the deal, she should have been looking for a way to eventually kill the Omecs and take over the mining operation. She left a critical area of need entirely in the hands of people she was warned repeatedly, as she noted herself, were super predators so deadly that they scared the shit out of all the other Votan races. Yes, Kindzi is totally batshit, but T'evgin's conversion came very, very late; far into this season he was still planning on a Dread Harvest, and it was really Stahma who had the moderating influence on him, not Amanda. Amanda herself seemed to just have a "plan" of leaving the Omecs alone and trusting them, and that's not any kind of real plan.

 

I love Yewll, and the show clearly knows she's a fan favorite - I loved the moment they gave her in the season premiere where, when we first saw her, she was busy making enough money to leave by being a total card shark. But the show uses her the right amount, IMO, so that she remains fresh. I do wish they'd remember to circle back to that plotline where she chose to hang onto the illusion of her dead lover because she wasn't quite ready to let her go yet. I'm glad the mind control implant's finally been removed because she was so clearly screaming inside at everything she had to do. I loved that she would position herself in front of Datak to hide him from the Omec when they came to pick their meals.

 

RIP Andina. It was interesting that she told Alak to forget his mother, but then died for Stahma herself. There was no other reason for her to rush out into the hall at Kindzi. I really am unsure as to what Stahma was up to in going to Alak's house, but one thing that struck me was how the situation ended up having some similarities to the situation in which Christie died. Christie wanted to be killed, and Stahma ultimately agreed to do it, because they were worried that otherwise the baby would start crying and alert Rahm Tarr to his existence; here, the first thing Stahma did when she got to the kitchen ahead of Kindzi was hide the doll so Kindzi wouldn't see it, while Alak hid with the baby. I'm not sure if those similarities were intentional on Stahma's part or even the show's part, but it struck me.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Black Knight

[laagamer]

Datak proves how awesome he is.

 

The whole Ywell mind control was getting boring. Glad that ended. 

 

I don't understand why people are complaining about the gore. At least it's something new and interesting. More action please.

 

Why did Adina have to die...I liked her 

[ramble]

I don't watch zombie shows. There's a reason I don't watch zombie shows. People eating. I'm against it. This storyline is one gory body-munching shot away from me not watching it at all. I don't even care what happens to characters I typically like when there's people chow being eaten. A new race lands on earth? Oh, sounds interesting until it's revealed they're purple people eaters. I'm not intrigued. I'm not concerned. I'm not invested. I'm seriously considering deleting the show from my DVR. Stupid space zombie-vampires. If I wanted to see that plot I'd watch a Troma movie.

[SmithW6079]

Datak proves how awesome he is.

The whole Ywell mind control was getting boring. Glad that ended.

I don't understand why people are complaining about the gore. At least it's something new and interesting. More action please.

Why did Adina have to die...I liked her

I find depictions of gore gratuitous and disgusting. It is neither "new" nor "interesting," and there are ways of implying what's going on without actually showing it.

I was also sorry Andina was killed. I thought they were found to position her as a "Stahma in training" to forestall an Alak-Irissa pairing.

[CoderLady]

Datak proves how awesome he is.

 

I loved snarky, bad-ass Datak's spike of death and so did the other captives. One of them yelled "Datak got one!" and they all started cheering. Both the take-down and the reaction warmed my little heart.

 

He disappeared afterwards but I hope this helps redeem his reputation with the town.

[laagamer]

I loved snarky, bad-ass Datak's spike of death and so did the other captives. One of them yelled "Datak got one!" and they all started cheering. Both the take-down and the reaction warmed my little heart.

 

He disappeared afterwards but I hope this helps redeem his reputation with the town.

 

Well Nolan got his job back with virtually no explanation of any kind.

 

So why not Datak I guess? lol

 

EDIT: And for those of you that don't like the gore, I disagree. Nobody is really being eaten. 

It looks totally fake anyways. 

Edited August 25, 2015 by laagamer

[SmithW6079]

EDIT: And for those of you that don't like the gore, lighten up. Nobody is really being eaten.

It looks totally fake anyways.

Really? And here I was, totally thinking the episode was a real-life snuff film. You mean a science fiction show is actually fiction?

[raven]

 

I loved snarky, bad-ass Datak's spike of death and so did the other captives. One of them yelled "Datak got one!" and they all started cheering. Both the take-down and the reaction warmed my little heart.

 

He disappeared afterwards but I hope this helps redeem his reputation with the town.

Well, he was responsible for saving the town from Rahm. (disclaimer: Datak fan).  He's better when he doesn't stop to think about what he's doing, LOL - he's got Stahma to do the thinking.

 

I did like Alak singing with Luke.  That was very cute before Stahma showed up and everything went to hell. 

Edited August 25, 2015 by raven

[coyotedelmar]

For Stahma visiting Alak, I wasn't quite sure of her angle at first (if any) but think figured it out. Basically she knew he'd never actually go with her (maybe hoped he would), but knew by putting Luke in danger it'd make Alak have to leave/go into hiding for a bit. Which it just so happens Adina stays behind to help Alak. 

 

In other words, my opinion, the plan was to make Alak have to lay low for awhile with Adina, and hopefully enhancing their (Alak and Adina's) relationship. 

[maczero]

In other words, my opinion, the plan was to make Alak have to lay low for awhile with Adina, and hopefully enhancing their (Alak and Adina's) relationship. 

I'm of the opinion that Stahma hoped to convince Alak to leave voluntarily with her.  If that didn't work then act like "Oops, I didn't realize I was leading the Omec right to your door".  After that, Alak might've felt forced to go into hiding with Stahma.

[tennisgurl]

Why did Adina have to die? Damn it show, stop killing people! Just because you Can does not mean you SHOULD!

 

Just put the baby down, you damn dirty purple people eater!

[jhlipton]

It's bad enough that Petulant killed Alak's possible love interest, but to threaten the baby? 

 

As soon as Adina said "I can be patient..", I knew she was dead.

 

 wow, she [Nicole Galicia]'s gorgeous.

 

Yes, she is.

 

 Then they realize they can bribe the others with pancakes (with fruit!),

 

And p***y (or male equivalent).

[Chicago Redshirt]

Glad she could take out some frustrations on an Omec.  Ugh, they are gross eaters.  So they consider themselves a master race because they're stronger?  They're not smarter.

...

And Amanda, don't fret over letting the Omec in town.  You were hoping for the best and almost got there.  Compared to things Nolan, Datak and Stahma have done, you're OK.

 

Depends on what you mean by "smarter." They objectively are better at some forms of technology than the other Votan races and humans, as demonstrated by such things as their ability to mine gulanite, Kindzi's ability to get the arktech out of Nolan's brain. Both Omecs were better able to see through Stahma's ploys better than 90 percent of the other characters, so I would say (assuming they are representative samples) they have as much emotional intelligence as most.

 

The trouble is that as with so much of TV, characters are as smart or as stupid as the plot dictates. Daddy's interactions with Daughter all basically require Daddy to have a blind spot you could drive an Omec cruiser through.  

 

The question is how to you kill her, since bullets don't work. Decapitation?  Blow up?  Or maybe Yewll will find a way to screw around with the mind control device, and they can control her!

 

I think there are going to be consequences for Kindzi doing whatever technobabbly thing with Yewll's brain implant from early on. It got uploaded to the ship, and I'll put 1000 quatloos that it proves the key to taking out 10,000 Omec maniacs at once. As for Kindzi herself, if Daddy can be taken out with a spike to the jaw, so can she.

 

I haven't seen anything about Kindzi that even remotely suggests she's an emotional child.  Someone with a child mentality isn't going to be able to successfully overthrow the equivalent of president.  There was some complex planning that went into it.  

 

There really wasn't that much complex about Kindzi's plan as far as I remember seeing. 

 

1) Disobey Daddy's commands and store Indogene brain patterns

2) Use control spike to control Yewll, and leave her with a mandate to serve her personal interest

3) Clone and kill Yewll a bunch of times, all behind Daddy's back.

4) Hunt random people behind Daddy's back

5) Threaten Daddy that his path of peaceful coexistence is crazy and she may lead a revolt against him

6) Try to force Daddy to kill his girlfriend by revealing Dread Harvest plans

7) Weaken Daddy by draining his blood

8) Take advantage of paternal weakness after all but beaten and get a sucker stab in

 

I put my hand up in front of the TV when all that was going on because, my stomach.

 

Poor Yewll is going to have even more sins to expiate now. Interesting how everyone seemed to forgive her so quickly because she wasn't in control, but nobody is cutting Stahma or Datak any slack for what they did while under Rahm's thumb.

 

In addition to Yewll literally not being in control of her actions vs. the Tarrs having had the ability to not collaborate with Rahm, Yewll's sin (at least in regard to the Omec) is not nearly as great as Datak and Stahma's (blowing up the Arch, for starters). Also, there is no doubt left that Yewll hates the Omec and would love to see them all dead. By contrast, if Rahm Tak won, there's no question Datak and Stahma would be buttering up to him and his troops. 

 

And p***y (or male equivalent).

 

I don't know if Stahma has enough to go around. :)

[Human]

 

There really wasn't that much complex about Kindzi's plan as far as I remember seeing. 

 

1) Disobey Daddy's commands and store Indogene brain patterns

2) Use control spike to control Yewll, and leave her with a mandate to serve her personal interest

3) Clone and kill Yewll a bunch of times, all behind Daddy's back.

4) Hunt random people behind Daddy's back

5) Threaten Daddy that his path of peaceful coexistence is crazy and she may lead a revolt against him

6) Try to force Daddy to kill his girlfriend by revealing Dread Harvest plans

7) Weaken Daddy by draining his blood

8) Take advantage of paternal weakness after all but beaten and get a sucker stab in

 

 

Err, that's a pretty multi-faceted plan.  It's certainly not:

1) Daddy make me mad

2) Daddy die, I win

 

The end result isn't that Kindzi just killed Daddy off with a stroke of luck.  She's developed multiple steps to the plan and is working ahead in case one step doesn't work out.  For example, she takes a piece of Yewell brain matter fairly early in her scheming.  From there she can develop the tool to mind control Yewell, yet she's still working on a plan that encourages her father to 'come to his senses'.  

 

Whether or not it's a good plan is beside the point.  The point is that this isn't a child's plan.  There's a complexity to it, which simply means that there are many different parts.  

Edited August 26, 2015 by Human

[Chicago Redshirt]

We'll probably have to agree to disagree. If you mean to say that any plan that has multiple parts is by definition "complex," then yes, Kindzi's plan has multiple parts and is therefore complex. But so is Lucy getting Charlie Brown to try to kick the football. (Obtain football. Go to park. Wait for Charlie Brown. Offer Charlie Brown a chance to kick the football. Promise that she won't move the football out of the way. Move football out of the way. Taunt Charlie Brown for falling for the same trick again.)

 

Kindzi's plan is not complex in the sense of being intricate or complicated or difficult to understand. In fact, the only one who seems to have difficulty understanding what she does is Tev'gin, and as written, he should really, really know better. It really is quite similar to Charlie Brown and the football. 

 

In fact, calling Kindzi's actions a "plan" is perhaps too generous because most of these things are not related to each other; they are just things Kindzi does. 

[Human]

I'm using the dictionary definition of complex.  I did not make any mention of her plan being complicated, intricate, difficult or even good.  The entire point of the conversation was a debate on whether or not Kindzi was mentally a child.  Her plan, whether you think it's good or not, is not a child's plan.  And yes, all of the things are related as they were done with the end goal to recreate Omec life on Earth.  Again, pointing out that she had a goal and that she was actively working towards that goal in everything she was doing is in no way stating that it's a good goal, or that the plan was without fault, or that she will experience long term success. She's going up against the main characters so obviously she will fail.  

[jhlipton]

As far as killing Kindzi is concerned, wasn't the reason that Datak went to Yewell in the first place was because she knew of a weapon that could kill Omecs.

 

 

I don't know if Stahma has enough [p***y] to go around. :)

 

She's not the only female in Defiance, though.  Heck, they've got enough "talent" in the Need/Want to satisfy pretty much any Omec taste...

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's move on from the "Is Kinzi a child or not?" discussion. Thank you.

[Chicago Redshirt]

As far as killing Kindzi is concerned, wasn't the reason that Datak went to Yewell in the first place was because she knew of a weapon that could kill Omecs.

 

It was more that Datak was hoping that she would know (or be able to figure it out), because Yewll's the smartest Indogene around. I mean, when doesn't she come up with a solution? She's in the mold of Spock, Data, Carter and other brainiacs who can save the day.

 

We don't in fact know if Yewll knows any more about what would kill an Omec than the next person.

 

Enough bullets apparently can work on normal ones, as Kindzi was almost killed, and the guy that was the victim of Mama getting her groove back also proved.

 

Stabbing can work, as Dead Tevgin and the Omec that Datak got showed.

 

In fact, I think what we are seeing is a gradual weakening of the threat, similar to what happen with Buffy S. 7 and the Ubervamps if you are familiar with/remember those. The first Ubervamp nearly took out Buffy in its first appearance and set her and others to despair. In its second, it gave Buffy a tough fight but one where she was always confident of winning. And in the season finale, there are a gazillion Ubervamps, and they are all being reasonably easily fended off by the unpowered potential Slayers. 

 

Here, Kindzi was beating down the show's toughest fighters and only lost to sucker bullets. And Tevgin was like, "You so weak you almost got killed by some bullets." Then you have Tevgin getting killed by a spike to the neck. And now pretty much all the non-Kindzi Omec seem not any more durable than a human.

[wayne67]

 

In fact, I think what we are seeing is a gradual weakening of the threat, similar to what happen with Buffy S. 7 and the Ubervamps if you are familiar with/remember those. The first Ubervamp nearly took out Buffy in its first appearance and set her and others to despair. In its second, it gave Buffy a tough fight but one where she was always confident of winning. And in the season finale, there are a gazillion Ubervamps, and they are all being reasonably easily fended off by the unpowered potential Slayers. 

 

Here, Kindzi was beating down the show's toughest fighters and only lost to sucker bullets. And Tevgin was like, "You so weak you almost got killed by some bullets." Then you have Tevgin getting killed by a spike to the neck. And now pretty much all the non-Kindzi Omec seem not any more durable than a human.

 

Well there are a few reasons why the non Kindzi Omec would be killed off easier than the ones that have been getting a lot of screen time so far.

 

1) They're not named characters

2) They have little to no screen time

3) They're jet lagged from a 1000 year long journey to get to Earth

4) They haven't eaten anything in a long time so they're malnourished

5) They're not from the line of Commanders who apparently conquered worlds and ate the flesh of their ancestors along with anyone else unlucky enough to wander into their path.

 

I'd imagine once they kill Kindzi they'll just ask one of the older Votans how they originally sabotaged the Omec ship and the genocide of the Omec will be complete. Yay?

[jhlipton]

In fact, I think what we are seeing is a gradual weakening of the threat, similar to what happen with Buffy S. 7 and the Ubervamps.

 

There was a 6th (and 7th) season of Buffy?  I hope they were good and didn't kill characters like Tara just for PLOT!!!! or come up with some hare-brained idea that magic is like crack.  Next you'll tell me that there was a Firefly movie!!!

 

But it is a well-known fact that the more there are of an enemy, the easier they are to defeat.  An enemy group has only so many hit points, and if these points get spread too thin, even Popeye's nephew Swee'Pea can mow them down.

[maczero]

But it is a well-known fact that the more there are of an enemy, the easier they are to defeat.  An enemy group has only so many hit points, and if these points get spread too thin, even Popeye's nephew Swee'Pea can mow them down.

Yep.  The perfect example of this is the "inverse ninja" rule.  One ninja = Badass.  The more you add, the weaker they become individually.