S03.E09: Idyllwild

[truthaboutluv]

Yes, Braillie shippers, I agree that there can be no adoption now. That line has been crossed. But I don't think this is going to turn out nearly as well for the show as you guys do. I've never seen it work out well when things like show structure and core relationship dynamics get tossed out the window for the sake of pushing a couple together to satisfy a portion of the audience.

 

 

Callie and Brandon has been part of the core of show since the pilot whether or not people wanted to see or acknowledge that. It was pretty much telegraphed with laser beams when they looked at each other in the pilot that there was an attraction that would probably be acted on at some point that would derail her long-term placement with this family.

 

 

Gilded Lily summed up exactly what I was going to say. While I don't dispute that it's never good for writers to ruin the show they had in mind in favor of pleasing shippers or one segment of the show's viewers (which is why I always say the worse thing a showrunner can do is go down the rabbit hole of fandom) I don't see this situation as specifically being an example of this. As Gilded Lily noted and I've said it before, Callie and Brandon was telegraphed from the Pilot and not the least bit subtly either. It's why I noted once that for those viewers who seem particularly enraged about it, I wonder why they stuck around after the Pilot. 

 

I will concede that I wasn't sure they'd be ballsy enough to really go there and I REALLY didn't think they'd go there as quickly as they did but I don't see this whole situation as throwing away the whole core show structure and dynamics just to satisfy some rabid shippers. The writers were obvious in the fact that they were contemplating going there from the Pilot. And as I said, when I watched the Pilot I did think that decision would possibly risk them writing themselves into a corner. And in some ways, that's exactly what has happened. But I do think it's something that was intended right off the bat. 

 

What happens when Callie and Brandon decide that this isn't True Love?

 

 

Well since I'm going to assume that they wouldn't have some War of the Roses type split, they'll be friends or people who broke up but still care about each other. Will it be slightly awkward at points in the beginning, sure but again, in my opinion, that's been true the moment the line was crossed with those two back in Season 1. YMMV but I found the attempts to sell the sibling relationship in early Season 2, when the pause was effectively placed on the relationship, more forced than anything else. Too much had happened between those two for me to ever believe they saw each other in a sibling light -  them being close friends without allowing the romance line to be crossed again, sure. But the brother/sister thing - no. I called bullshit on that.

 

Also, it seems like many are forgetting that Jude is officially a  Foster and Callie's brother. So  I disagree that Brandon and Callie means her ONLY connection to the family is being his girlfriend if the show goes there. No, she also has her brother which again is why I say I disagree with the notion that Callie loses her family if she's not adopted and it's pretty much a black and white - she doesn't adopted, she has nothing. I just don't see the situation that way. 

 

That Brandon, aware of Callie being a sexual assault victim of a former foster family member of her's, that Callie's half-brother is now Brandon's brother, that Callie's chance of being adopted is at risk, etc. still has sex with Callie is an act of astonishing self-absorption and ignorance. Callie is a traumatized individual in a cycle of self-destruction.  Brandon has no legitimate reason for audience empathy.

 

 

When it comes to Brandon, I feel like Gilded Lily, being the lone Brallie shipper on here. While I wouldn't say I love Brandon, I do feel like the character gets unfairly attacked at times and almost from day one, everything with him and Callie seemed to be placed solely on him, like Callie has no responsibility for any of these actions herself or no free will. There is a need to constantly excuse all her poor decisions and never any of his.

 

Yes, Callie's had a more traumatic life in some people's eyes but as one noted, Brandon grew up with an alcoholic father who at a very young age he learned to cover for and lie for, so his mother would not be mad at his dad and keep Brandon from him. His parents divorced when he was very young, something that can have significant effects on someone and then turns out his mother is really a lesbian. And at 5, which is when all this went down in Brandon's life, that had to be confusing to rationalize.

 

Then his moms become foster parents and adopt kids and he has to adjust to that. And I thought the blow up he had in the first season was indicative of what would come later when he said they never asked him what he thought about a lot of things. There was an indication that in some ways Stef and Mike and Lena dropped the ball because Brandon for the most part at that point was seen as the "good kid" and so they never really made sure he was okay about a lot of things. They just assumed he was. Then Callie is introduced in his life, they quickly cross a line and that's never really dealt with either and it's pretty much just "get over it, she's being adopted. " And then of course he's sexually assaulted by a grown up and then physically assaulted and that's only touched on slightly.

 

The fact is neither Brandon and Callie are the most mature or well adjusted people, not to mention the fact that they're teenagers who aren't always known for making rational and sensible choices. It just seems unfair to me that he gets all the blame for their mutually bad decisions. Callie kissed another foster brother KNOWING her past and history and the situation with Brandon and I felt like people barely commented on it. It was almost like a shrug and almost like a whatever because some like AJ whereas some seem to really, really hate Brandon. So it was like a whatever.

 

And frankly in my opinion, that was a FAR bigger deal than was made and in my even perhaps greater unpopular opinion, should have been the point where they should have nixed this Callie adoption. Because in my opinion, she showed at this point a complete disregard to this thing she keeps claiming she wants so badly and a complete lack of self control and general self destructiveness. There was no excuse in my opinion, for Callie having gone through this whole saga with Brandon, to kiss AJ but she did anyway and the character really didn't seem to truly be called out for it. But Brandon gets the brunt of their sleeping together and made the completely awful person. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[izabella]

That's why its interesting to me the constant dislike for Brandon and how in many ways some place everything on him because frankly, I feel like Callie has been very unfair and horrible to Brandon with her back and forth and indecision. That's why I liked him going off on her when she tried to kiss him last season when Robert said he wouldn't sign the papers and he told her that she only came to him when she thought things weren't working out.

 

I dislike Brandon because he's a mopey sad-sack most of the time.  I would dislike that about him regardless of anything related to Callie.  I dislike Brallie because I don't think they are good for each other, and I think the LAST thing Callie needs is a guy.  Therapy, yes.  Boyfriend, no. 

 

I think Callie has been very unfair to Brandon, and I see her as the one who has always been in control of that relationship, particularly the push=pull thing she's always had going on with him.  I want you!  No, I want to be adopted!  I can't be adopted now so I want you!  No, I want someone else! No, I want to be adopted!  No, I want you, no!  Whatever, Callie.  None of your families seem to be interested in getting you into real therapy, and you aren't interested in Rita's advice, so I guess you have to make more mistakes until you age out of the system and can make adult mistakes.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Google (take that for what it's worth) tells me that California is a "two-party consent" state, meaning that Callie's recording of the conversation with Carmen is illegal and (I would assume) inadmissible as evidence in Rita's defense.

 

Even if not admissible, I want to think that the prosecutors would no longer want to go forward in the interest of justice, or if not that, they would know the two accusers are liars and wouldn't make great witnesses.

 

 

And frankly in my opinion, that was a FAR bigger deal than was made and in my even perhaps greater unpopular opinion should have been the point where they should have nixed this Callie adoption. Because in my opinion, she showed at this point a complete disregard to this thing she keeps claiming she wants so badly and a complete lack of self control and general self destructiveness. There was no excuse in my opinion, for Callie having gone through this whole saga with Brandon, to kiss AJ but she did anyway and the character really didn't seem to truly be called out for it. But Brandon gets the brunt of their sleeping together and made the completely awful person.

 

To be fair, Callie had consequences for the AJ thing because she couldn't stay at the house, and has a whole new set of problems at GU with the goon boyfriend of the lying blackmailer girl.  Which in turn set into motion her recording and sending the conversation to Rita thereby outing her and Brandon and (she thinks) torpedoing the adoption.  That's some pretty major fallout from kissing AJ.

[grannygeek]

"However, as with Aria/Ezra on Pretty Little Liars, the show has romanticized a disturbing scenario and pandered to audiences"

Thank you, dohe, for expressing concisely and cleanly what I attempted to in an earlier profanity laden post that was removed apparently by moderators.

And thank you Al Lowe.

For a network that labels itself Abc FAMILY this is especially disgusting.

[truthaboutluv]

I dislike Brandon because he's a mopey sad-sack most of the time.

 

 

I don't care about someone disliking Brandon because they think he's a sad-sack and mopey. I am referring to his constantly being solely blamed for the entire situation between him and Callie going back to the first season where he was compared to Liam, the rapist former foster brother. There is rarely any culpability placed on Callie - it's always "she's been through a lot and she's a victim and is self destructive yes but he's the one who should know better, be more mature and is pursuing her and is gross and disgusting for his actions." That's what I disagree with. I see them both as teenagers with poor impulse control, poor and self destructive choices. 

 

"However, as with Aria/Ezra on Pretty Little Liars, the show has romanticized a disturbing scenario and pandered to audiences"

 

 

YMMV but I don't think this is an apt comparison. Aria and Ezra is illegal - if anything that situation would be comparable to if the show had made Brandon and Dani romantic. Ezra was not only older than Aria who was underage but he was also her teacher, in a position of authority over her. Their relationship would be illegal in just about every state and we've heard countless of stories of people being arrested for that very thing.

 

Callie and Brandon's relationship is not illegal - it would just mean no judge would legally allow the family to adopt her but there is nothing illegal about their actions and it's not even incestual either as they are not blood relatives and she's still not legally considered his sister. I can respect people having their own moral lines but I do not agree that this situation in any way compares to the grossness of Aria and Ezra and just about half of the damn relationships on Pretty Little Liars. 

Edited August 11, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Ikki]

That scene was in last week's episode. She made a video for her app, listing all the abusive adults she'd deal with in the system (including Liam), and Mariana uploaded it for her. Mariana and Jude were watching it together. Jude was worried it was a bad idea, and Mariana didn't seem to understand why, and said it was too late to take it back, anyway.

Oooh. I guess my recording cut off more than I assumed, because I didn't see that part at all. I figured when people were talking about it, it was from the preview. Thanks for explaining.

[Eeksquire]

I think Brandon and Callie are equally at fault in their relationship - in particular, the entire sequence of events that happened when Callie was at GU was really on Brandon - he knew there was a restraining order, Callie was in a position where she couldn't have acted to get to him even if she wanted to, and he continued to push the relationship at great risk to both of them.  (Although frankly, even then, more of the risk was on Callie, since if she got kicked out of GU, she was the one that would be placed who-knows-where with whatever foster parents*.)

 

I think my problem with Brandon the character is more with David Lambert - if he had more settings than "strident", "hangdog" and "blank" perhaps the portrayal would be more rounded and the criticism would be more even.  

 

*Although, that's something that has always bothered me about this show - every foster family we've seen or heard of, other than The Fosters, has been portrayed as uniformly terrible.  Surely there is more than one decent set of foster parents in the entire state of California? Perhaps it could be (and even now, would be) an interesting storyline to send Callie to a foster family that isn't abusive and horrible.  Maybe not as happy and sparkly as The Fosters, but kind and decent? Just me?

[maddog1219]

OK so the parents of teenagers left the two younger girls, one of whom is in foster care and whose adoption is in question, at a party where they knew there was alcohol. Ladies, that's how you lose your license and your foster kid. What in the hell? I know it was contrived to get Brandon and Callie together for the big horizontal mambo but man, I just couldn't get past that. They know there is a history between the two, yet they leave the kids to fend/sleep together for themselves. The child is a ward of the state of Cali and the state requires proper supervision. UGH!!!

Next on the list, what is with all the consent to teen drinking and at a summer camp? Apparently this is all done in the open with consent of supervising adults...these kids are 16! Hello, liability! I am just floored with the way they take drinking so casually, as if this is something that all teens do at summer camp and that adults expect this to happen.

So you leave your teen foster daughter to watch over your son because you think he's drinking and then you allow them to stay in a cabin without adult supervision when you know there are still side-eyes going on? And the adoption is VERY MUCH in question. Holy crap, I know Steph and Lena were having trouble but leaving those kids in the Idlewild place was beyond irresponsible. In my opinion, they set the stage for this behavior. They know Callie has self-destructive tendencies despite the best of her intentions, and yet, their fight, which they could have had at any time, takes precedence.

In other news, I LOVE YOU AJ.

[ShadowFacts]

I also mentioned I have a problem with the lack of supervision.  Technically, all of these kids and their sexcapades are problematic because they are under the age of consent.  Yeah, I know the realities, but I feel like their sex adventures at their ages should be more actively discouraged by the parents.  Let alone the alcohol use.  That's a set-up for nonconsensual sex, and unintended pregnancy if ever there was one.  It's kind of indefensible that Stef and Lena would do that -- one a cop and the other an educator. 

[izabella]

I have to agree - I don't think Stef and Lena have done a very good job parenting, to be honest.  No way my parents would have ever let me run around like that.  Knowingly making Callie the designated driver because teenage Brandon would be drinking?  Please. 

 

I'm glad they finally got the Lena kiss out in the open.  As painful as it was for them, it's good for Stef to realize that their marriage IS in serious trouble and can't be put on the back burner until everything is nice and happy with the kids. 

[Panopticon]

But, in the actual tv-business timeline of this show, is this the season finale or is this a summer season finale? In other words, have they confirmed that the show will be coming back in the winter for the next half season or is this it unless it's renewed? It's hard to follow with the way ABCF does their seasons.

 

Since they made a point of casting a new Jesus and announcing that he would appear in 2016, I think a winter half-season is pretty well confirmed.

[LisaM]

 

The Fosters get choked up in their tangled webs and Al Lowe ABSOLUTELY CANNOT WITH IT.

Al Lowe, you so nailed EXACTLY how I feel about this episode. It's truly funny how enraged I feel about fictional characters. Seriously pissed. Your piece was precisely on point. It is also so upsetting to see a show which I have praised like crazy for tackling groundbreaking subject matter make such an ill-advised wrong turn.

 

Bradley Bredeweg tweeted last night: "Just wait until the finale. I promise you will ALL be happy." I don't see how that is possible if you were in favor of Callie being adopted by Stef and Lena -- unless TPTB plans to allow the adoption to go through despite the Brallie sex. His tweet would make sense if the sex was a dream sequence but the promo definitely doesn't point to a dream.

Edited August 11, 2015 by LisaM

[KaveDweller]

I have to agree - I don't think Stef and Lena have done a very good job parenting, to be honest.  No way my parents would have ever let me run around like that.  Knowingly making Callie the designated driver because teenage Brandon would be drinking?  Please. 

 

I'm glad they finally got the Lena kiss out in the open.  As painful as it was for them, it's good for Stef to realize that their marriage IS in serious trouble and can't be put on the back burner until everything is nice and happy with the kids.

I don't mind the designated driver part, because if they don't think they can stop Brandon from drinking, they should at least make sure he's safe. But I'm not sure why they needed a DD, because wasn't that hotel pretty much right at the same place as a the party? They weren't driving home that night.

[Ljohnson1987]

This episode was pretty good.  The Lena/Monte storyline just needs to end. She’s such a pointless character.  Braille is going to ruin everything that Callie has worked for.  I hope that Rita doesn’t face any charges, because that girl lied about her hitting her. Callie has proof. Also, where was Jude? Why wasn’t he at the piano competition? I love how the writers make us believe that all is going to solved next week.  Mike is great. I’m glad that Ty came back. AJ breaks my heart. Give the kid a break.  Mariana was smart to admit what she had done. Stef and Lena divorcing/separating cannot happen.

[Ikki]

Bradley Bredeweg tweeted last night: "Just wait until the finale. I promise you will ALL be happy." I don't see how that is possible if you were in favor of Callie being adopted by Stef and Lena -- unless TPTB plans to allow the adoption to go through despite the Brallie sex. His tweet would make sense if the sex was a dream sequence but the promo definitely doesn't point to a dream.

Seeing as there are those of us who are so anti-Brallie as well as a large portion of the fandom that's pro-Brallie, that tweet really makes zero sense to me.

If I had to guess, I'd say what his tweet means is that shippers will be happy (Brallie and Jonnor, maybe others).

Edited August 11, 2015 by Ikki

[blackrose602]

I'm genuinely curious about the demographics of the anti-Brallie contingent, and how many "troubled teens" they've actually known. I've known hundreds--in the system, out of the system, runaways, throwaways, living in foster care, living in warehousing situations, living in psych wards, living on the streets....and I honestly can't think of one in the 15-18 age bracket who was seriously looking for a "forever family." A safe place to land, yes. A way out of a horrific background, yes. Somewhere to live and be safe and shower regularly, absolutely. A way to get caseworkers and psychologists and judges off their backs, no doubt. But every one I've known has ultimately just been counting down the days to turning 18 and having control over their own lives for once.

 

But they're still normal teenagers, often with a layer or six of psychological issues on top. They're looking for romance, they're interested in relationships, and they're a heck of a lot more likely to believe in true love than true family. We know Callie's been raped. What other situations has she been in during her pre-Fosters history that would have sexualized her, had her turn to a guy for safety and comfort (even in a completely platonic way), or made her believe that same-age relationships (platonic, same-sex, whatever) are more trustworthy than relationships with adults? For a kid in the system, probably quite a lot. Her choosing Brandon over a "forever family" seems very much like a real, authentic choice for her character.

 

But I don't see Brandon as a villain either, for all the reasons that others have listed. He's the child of an alcoholic who had to come to terms with his mom's lesbianism and her marrying a woman, had all these kids brought into his life, been raped and assaulted, and dealt with the loss and slow recovery of his greatest talent, piano, due to the damage to his hand. It's not his job to be Callie's psychoanalyst, social worker, or any other adult role. He's as psychologically impacted as she is, although in very different ways.

 

So they're two damaged people of the same age who found something wonderful in each other. They tried to suppress it in favor of the adoption dream, when Callie REALLY needed it for both herself and Jude. But as obstacle after obstacle have been thrown in that path, while Callie's situation has changed such that she doesn't need it in the same way, they've gotten further and further confirmation that life is a bitch, adult promises don't work out, but they're still there for each other through all of it. And they've chosen to pursue that. How does that possibly say anything bad about either of them?

[izabella]

Two messed up people turning to each other during their teen years does not make for "true love" or healthy relationships.  Callie has no idea what a healthy romantic relationship looks like, nor what it requires.  I don't think Brandon has any idea, either.  The moms are the closest they have come to seeing a healthy relationship, and Callie has had that example for what?  6 months?

 

It's not all about feel-good hormones.  Both of them need therapy, or they'll keep messing things up for themselves individually and as a couple.

Edited August 11, 2015 by izabella

[Leslie1976]

Crandon just doesn't work for me. Or Brallie. Whatever. At this point, I hope they elope and end up in a trailer park in Mississippi. The adoption social worker being unconcerned that Lena and Steph are going to couples therapy? Because if the social worker was really doing a final evaluation, it would have included extensive interviews with the parents, and opened up that fact, and led to questioning the stability of their relationship.

[possibilities]

I do think that the characters' actions have indicated that Brandon is actually infatuated/in love with Callie herself, but not so much with Callie's feelings about Brandon.

 

I thought this at first, also. But then I remembered that at one point during the first time Callie was at GU, and they were sneaking around seeing each other, she was talking about getting her own apartment, and Brandon was talking about how they could have TV and a couch or whatever, and she was all: I can't afford any of that, I am just fantasizing about a kitchen table to sit at. And they discovered they had nothing to talk about and no common ground and it was very awkward and kind of fizzled out. They sort of realized they didn't really have a serious motivation to be together, they were just in love with the idea of it until it became a real thing to face. Am I the only person who remembers this scene? It went from "excited to be alone with you" to "can't wait til this is over" so fast, I thought that was a real turning point for them both, realizing the whole epic romance thing was just a fantasy and not what either of them seriously wanted. More than anything else, I thought that was why they both adopted the position that "adoption is a better plan." They are both only capable of sustaining the fantasy when they are either separated by adults (so it's rebelliously liberating) or are together in a situation where it's forbidden (so, again, they aren't really dealing with the reality at all).

 

Teenagers can be attracted to any number of inappropriate people, objects, and symbols, and are capable of imagining epic romance with a wide range of misplaced or inaccessible targets, from movie stars to teachers to other kids they don't even really know but who seem glamorous or dangerous or whatever. I do not deny that these feelings can be powerful, but they are also usually transient and ungrounded and easy to dispell once reality sets in. I think it's true that Brandon has been more able to sustain the fantasy than Callie has, but it's because he has less at stake than she does, less to lose, and because he's less often brought down to the harsh realities she is constantly confronted by. He's had some tough stuff, but she was more recently given a death threat while he was being told it was good for him to have a big ego because he's an artist.... So I think it's unclear how deep the feelings are, or what they are based on, really.

 

Also, I can't tell Brandon's sulky face from his desire face, so that might be part of why I don't see the consistency of his attraction or the chemistry some other people do.

 

I do think that Lena and Stef need to supervise more an pay closer attention. It would be hard for me to imagine two foster siblings having sex would not be a threat to their foster license. If the two of them wind up in trouble, that would be more just, in my mind, than many of the other outcomes we've all been floating. But I don't want to watch a show about Stef and Lena being in trouble, any more than I want to watch a show about teenage star-crossed soulmates, so it's a problem for me, either way.

 

[bybrandy]

I'm genuinely curious about the demographics of the anti-Brallie contingent, and how many "troubled teens" they've actually known. I've known hundreds--in the system, out of the system, runaways, throwaways, living in foster care, living in warehousing situations, living in psych wards, living on the streets....and I honestly can't think of one in the 15-18 age bracket who was seriously looking for a "forever family." A safe place to land, yes. A way out of a horrific background, yes. Somewhere to live and be safe and shower regularly, absolutely. A way to get caseworkers and psychologists and judges off their backs, no doubt. But every one I've known has ultimately just been counting down the days to turning 18 and having control over their own lives for once.

 

Her choosing Brandon over a "forever family" seems very much like a real, authentic choice for her character.

 

I suspect the demographis of the anti-Brallie are the ones that know as that teenage true love is a bigger fairy-tale than the forever family.   I also agree that every troubled teen I've ever known by high school was just counting down the days.   However, as an adoption would guarantee that the soft place to land wasn't going to vanish in an instant, I think most of them, had this extremely rare teenage adoption option come up for them, would have grabbed on.

The only kids I've known who have flat out refused adoption were holding out for a bio family reconciliation and needing to keep their name and data in tact.   That isn't an issue for Callie.

That said, I do agree that teens who have been screwed by adults their whole lives, like Callie may well believe that true love was a more realistic option than adoption.  I really, really do.  I've seen lots of kids run off with their significant others rather than finish school or stick to that job, or whatever.   It almost never works out, mind.   But I do agree that  it is a choice Callie might realistically make.

Except for one big, big, big thing.  She's never made that choice.   Ever.  She has never picked Brandon over adoption.   She has turned to Brandon, or accepted Brandon when he turned to her when her adoption was already (in her mind) over.  But she has never once said that she would pick Brandon over the fosters.   She picked Rita over the fosters.  She didn't pick Brandon.  He came to her.  She didn't even this time tell him, at least they could be together now.  Nope.   

 

Maybe that is the endgame for Brallie shippers, but it hasn't happened, yet.   She's never picked Brandon over that forever family.  

And with the previews she's going to go home and find that after seeking comfort in Brandon, that her adoption dream is still on.  And she's going to realize she screwed herself over.  And maybe she'll be happy that her adoption is over so she can be with B.   But it doesn't look that way in the court scenes.

And honestly, my biggest worry, is that she's still going to pick the adoption.   Awkward.   

 

But I hope she doesn't because that would be so, so, so wrong.

[truthaboutluv]

But then I remembered that at one point during the first time Callie was at GU, and they were sneaking around seeing each other, she was talking about getting her own apartment, and Brandon was talking about how they could have TV and a couch or whatever, and she was all: I can't afford any of that, I am just fantasizing about a kitchen table to sit at. And they discovered they had nothing to talk about and no common ground and it was very awkward and kind of fizzled out. They sort of realized they didn't really have a serious motivation to be together, they were just in love with the idea of it until it became a real thing to face. Am I the only person who remembers this scene?

 

I remember the scene but I don't remember interpreting it that way. Brandon and Callie were sitting around her friend's apartment and she was fantasizing about her own place and I think Brandon said something about some piece of furniture and I think she said something about space for a piano and he asked her why she would need that and she pretty much made it clear she was fantasizing about the place being for both of them. And Brandon in that moment looked a bit thrown and it could have been interpreted that the situation became too real to him - in that, "if she tries to live on her own and she expects me to come with her, then we're kind of on our own and this is a real responsibility." That said, the moment was followed up by their making out and rolling around on the floor so I wouldn't say it totally ruined the moment for them but yes,  Brandon definitely looked spooked in that second. I didn't see it as they realized they had nothing in common or nothing to talk about. 

[ShadowFacts]

 

Also, I can't tell Brandon's sulky face from his desire face, so that might be part of why I don't see the consistency of his attraction or the chemistry some other people do.

 

Lmao. 

 

 

I suspect the demographis of the anti-Brallie are the ones that know as that teenage true love is a bigger fairy-tale than the forever family.   I also agree that every troubled teen I've ever known by high school was just counting down the days.   However, as an adoption would guarantee that the soft place to land wasn't going to vanish in an instant, I think most of them, had this extremely rare teenage adoption option come up for them, would have grabbed on.

 

I think most teens who aren't troubled get to counting down days to when they can call their own shots, it's pretty much part of normal development.  Callie would have, by most standards, a pretty sweet deal in the Adams-Foster family, even if she wanted to take off at 18.  Loving (and permissive) mothers in a comfortable home, siblings she gets along with, and a wealthy bio dad in the wings.  She did want all that very much, and only slept with Brandon when she thought it was all about to go up in smoke due to her trying to save Rita.  I don't think she chose Brandon because she couldn't trust adults or anything like that; it was a consolation, if you will, but not a goal.  For me there's tragedy to it, that she was trying to do a noble thing for Rita.  If only Brandon would have stayed in his damn bedroom and yes, I know she was a willing participant.

[stopeslite]

Can I just... this one thing... BRANDON WON THE COMPETITION WHAT THE FREAKING HECK?!

Seriously! Oh, he is back from having been dismissed precisely because he couldn't work with a pianist and one of the big things they're trying to teach is collaboration, managed to beg and finally got one pianist to work with him, then fired that pianist and played it himself because he was positive nobody could do it the justice that he himself could, and then WON THE COMPETITION? SERIOUSLY PEOPLE. This is like when people win a Top Chef competition even though they refused to do the dish within any of the parameters set by the judges but gosh, theirs is so much better than everyone else's because everyone else played by the rules and was hampered by the restrictions, so of course it is and that's the ENTIRE POINT OF THE RULES IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Ahem. Sorry. I needed to get that out of my system. Because Brandon straight-up refused to do anything he was told and then LITERALLY WON A TRIP TO DISNEYLAND BECAUSE OF IT.

[lofidelity]

I remember the scene but I don't remember interpreting it that way. Brandon and Callie were sitting around her friend's apartment and she was fantasizing about her own place and I think Brandon said something about some piece of furniture and I think she said something about space for a piano and he asked her why she would need that and she pretty much made it clear she was fantasizing about the place being for both of them. And Brandon in that moment looked a bit thrown and it could have been interpreted that the situation became too real to him - in that, "if she tries to live on her own and she expects me to come with her, then we're kind of on our own and this is a real responsibility." That said, the moment was followed up by their making out and rolling around on the floor so I wouldn't say it totally ruined the moment for them but yes,  Brandon definitely looked spooked in that second. I didn't see it as they realized they had nothing in common or nothing to talk about. 

 

I remember that as well.  I also seem to remember that scene leading to Brandon going home, and being told by one of the adults in his life that Callie needs a family more than she needs a boyfriend, and then looking as thoughtful as Brandon is capable of looking -- which I interpreted as Brandon realizing that while his goal was something like "spend more time with cute girl and have a normal fun teenage relationship," Callie's goal was something like "create a family for myself out of whatever scraps of stability and kindness I can find, a.k.a. a kitchen table and Brandon."

 

I don't think it would matter to Brandon and Callie even if they did realize they had nothing in common and nothing to talk about -- but to be honest, I don't think that's actually true.  I am pretty anti-Brallie, but it's mostly because we never see any scenes that explain why they're so drawn to each other -- mostly, we just get scenes where they're kind of in the same place at the same time while Callie repeats "You're my best friend" to Brandon.  Why does Callie consider Brandon her best friend?  Why is Brandon so drawn to Callie?  In Callie's case, I think it's as simple as: Brandon is always there.  Need to hop a bus across town to rescue your little brother from an abusive foster father?  Brandon will go with you.  Need to take a dumb road trip to Mexico to go hang-gliding?  Brandon will go with you.  Need to make out with someone inappropriate to torpedo your chances at happiness because you think it will hurt less to walk away than to have your hopes dashed again?  Brandon will go with you.  But in Brandon's case, I feel like it could actually be a lot more complicated -- it's just that Brandon, despite all his screen time, is so under-written that we really have no idea what's going on with him.  As others have mentioned, this is a kid who grew up covering for his alcoholic father because he was afraid that if his mom knew the truth, she'd never let them see each other again, and he still feels insecure in his relationship with his dad, as evidenced by his jealousy over how much attention Mike pays to AJ.  It makes perfect sense that he would be drawn to a situation where he feels like he loves someone, but he also feels like something about it is wrong, but he also feels like he has to protect this person because they have more "problems" than he does, so he defaults to hiding and accepting everything they do -- that's the pattern he grew up with, and that's the pattern that probably contributed to him being so easily preyed upon by Dani.  But this is also a kid who feels like his (very real) issues and suffering are constantly shunted aside by the people who are supposed to be taking care of him, so they can take care of people with more "problems" than he has (hey, funny how that reinforces the pattern!) instead -- and it feels both unrealistic to me, and like a missed opportunity to develop his character for viewers, that he isn't drawn to Callie primarily because she's the first person he feels like he can talk openly to about all this stuff. 

Edited August 13, 2015 by lofidelity

[LeGrandElephant]

I want to see Robert's reaction to finding out that not only at Callie and Brandon romantically and sexually involved, but that lots of people knew that and didn't tell him.

Back when the show was angsting about Robert signing the papers, I remember posting something like I didn't see why I was supposed to be rooting for Callie staying with the Fosters over Robert, and I remember people jumping all over that and really insisting that it was super important for Callie to be adopted by the fosters because she had bonded with them. But honestly, I never saw it that way. It made sense at first when she had literally nowhere else to go and was at risk of being separated from Jude, but once she suddenly had this nice stable rich nearby father, it didn't make sense anymore. There was no real downside to her living with Robert - he's not abusive or unstable and doesn't even live far away. She could have moved in with him and still seen the Fosters all the time. Her dating Brandon would still be risky since it would put Jude in the situation of two of his siblings dating each other, and could create various awkward situations, but wouldn't be as bad as with her living with the fosters. I never understood why I'm supposed to root for her being in a situation where she is sexually attracted to her brother over a situation where she lives with her perfectly nice father.

Now that they've pulled the trigger on Brandon and Callie, I hope Robert can get his parental rights reinstated - maybe on the grounds that he never would have signed if he'd known about Brandon and Callie's history, or on the grounds that Stef blackmailed him (but then she'd be in real trouble and I don't think the show would do that).

Also super annoyed Brandon won by breaking the rules. He fired his pianist and used a looping track. I bet other pianists there could have sounded even better if they had used looping tracks. Very similar to Mariana using that LED dancer, except that at least involved skill in something else (programming) and it doesn't seem like using this looping pedal requires any special skills.

Agree with everyone that it's weird that Stef and Lena left the teenagers unsupervised in that cabin, knowing all the stuff they've gotten up to.

Google (take that for what it's worth) tells me that California is a "two-party consent" state, meaning that Callie's recording of the conversation with Carmen is illegal and (I would assume) inadmissible as evidence in Rita's defense.

On law and order they always say they can use evidence obtained illegally as long as a civilian obtained it, not police. Whether they prosecute Callie for eavesdropping is a separate issue. Also, using it to prosecute Carmen for assault is one thing, and using it to exculpate Rita is another thing. It might be inadmissible against Carmen but would definitely be admissible to protect Rita. It probably wouldn't even get far enough to be used to exculpate Rita in court; probably the DA would drop the case after hearing it.

Callie is an idiot for not just cutting the recording off before they started talking about her and Brandon.

Edited August 11, 2015 by LeGrandElephant

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Fosters Takes Brandon And Callie To The Point Of No Return / The Fosters get choked up in their tangled webs and Al Lowe ABSOLUTELY CANNOT WITH IT.

[LisaM]

Al Lowe nailed it.

[Perfect Xero]

I want to see Robert's reaction to finding out that not only at Callie and Brandon romantically and sexually involved, but that lots of people knew that and didn't tell him.

 

Robert's kind of stuck, it's like the fact that Stef blackmailed him, he can't have any real reaction to it because Callie will flip out. So he has to make nice and accept that a half apology and a piece of cake is the best he's going to get.

 

Also super annoyed Brandon won by breaking the rules. He fired his pianist and used a looping track. I bet other pianists there could have sounded even better if they had used looping tracks. Very similar to Mariana using that LED dancer, except that at least involved skill in something else (programming) and it doesn't seem like using this looping pedal requires any special skills.

Agree with everyone that it's weird that Stef and Lena left the teenagers unsupervised in that cabin, knowing all the stuff they've gotten up to.

 

I'm pretty sure that you're not even allowed to leave a foster kid unsupervised overnight, there has to be an adult who has been approved by the state present if at least one of the foster parents isn't, but this is the second time that Stef and Lena have shrugged their shoulders and just left the foster kid alone overnight.

 

This is probably the thing that I find most annoying about this show. Rules don't apply to the Foster Adams family. We're just supposed to believe that they're such "good" people that every time they bend or break a rule, it's for the best. And that when they do screw up, it's supposed to be an understandable mistake, and not that they've done something truly wrong.

 

It started with Jude is coming up short on his test scores, so Lena fudges the results.

 

Then we get thing like, Stef saying that she didn't see Mike shoot an unarmed man, well ... okay, it was dark and the guy had just shot Stef moments before.

 

But now, sometimes it's littler things, like Mariana can win a dance competition by using a light show, Brandon can play his own composition with a backing track.

 

But then it's also things like, Stef blackmailing Robert and facing no repercussions for it, and they can all lie and cover up the relationship between Brandon and Callie. Brandon can take part in a false ID ring and I don't even recall any legal repercussions from that coming down on him.

[calliope1975]

The same point would have been made if Brandon had played his own piece without winning the competition. That was just asinine.

 

I do agree that if I liked the actor playing Brandon, I might be willing to cut him and Callie some slack. But as others said above, I'm only seeing 24/7 moping. I can't connect to the character, and therefore, he just grates. MM's so good as Callie that I just want a solid win for her. I'm thinking I won't be seeing that anytime soon. 

[marceline]

This episode made me give up. Not necessarily on the show - although that day is nigh - but on Callie and Brandon as characters. I'll watch next week but unless something huge happens, I'm giving up. I agree with the people who said that the show need to pick a side, Braille or no. The choice has been made and I just can't sit through more of this mess.

[ShortyMac]

This episode made me give up. Not necessarily on the show - although that day is nigh - but on Callie and Brandon as characters. I'll watch next week but unless something huge happens, I'm giving up. I agree with the people who said that the show need to pick a side, Braille or no. The choice has been made and I just can't sit through more of this mess.

 

I'm probably gonna quit watching live and just stream the episodes and fast-forward through Brallie.

 

Last night's overall ratings were the show's third-worst, behind 03x03 and 03x02. The demo was down to 0.4 from 0.5.

[AmeliaBedelia]

Except for the last five minutes (which I did enjoy), this episode was kind of boring.

 

Many of the problems had to do with the writing/staging of certain scenes:

 

No Jude. He was missed.

Jenna is just odd. Who talks about their sex life with a teenager present?

The Girls United scenes didn't flow. A scary dude threatening Callie is a big deal, and it was glossed over.

A convenient cabin. Really? It would have made more sense for the sex to happen in Mexico or literally anywhere else.

Underage drinking is apparently fine and dandy.

TWELVE bottles of wine...the adults may need supervision.

Brandon's speech. Just sit down and play dude. The cellist also looked about forty to me.

 

I did like Stef and Lena's conversation. Lena kept the secret for so long, it's nice to have it out there.

 

The Brandon/Callie song was really pretty. The love scene was hot...not really abc family appropriate. If I were a teen, I would have scrambled for the mute button praying that my parents wouldn't come into my room at that particular moment (somehow they always knocked at the wrong time lol).

 

I am really curious about the post-coital convo Brandon/Callie will have next episode. At first, I wondered about the choice to have Brandon come into Callie's room in the middle of the night (since that's apparently what Liam did). But, Callie coming into Brandon's space would have fed into Brandon's speech about Callie only coming to him when things are wrong in her life. Just curious what the characters will say about it if anything at all.

 

 

[xman4802]

I want to say I have enjoyed everyone's comments and discussions, particularly those who have pointed out that Callie's situation has changed so dramatically since the pilot that the issue of the adoption by Stef/Lena really is not so much of a big deal.   She will always be a part of the Fosters through her connection with Jude and Robert is more than happy to parent/adopt her (as contrived as that situation is/was).  It seems like making the adoption end game is not such a big deal and thus those of use who are anti- Brallie for the reasons that it prevents her adoption/forever family probably do not have a strong of a case.  

 

That being said, I am anti-Brallie for other reasons.  YMMV but I do not see the amazing chemistry between the two actors, and I don't believe that they would be genuinely attracted to each other, the show's attempt to telegraph their chemistry and romantic interest from the pilot notwithstanding.  I believe some of that is David Lambert's poor acting skills and his general mopey-ness as default emotion  (although of course no one can top Jake T. Austin in that department of wooden acting) but some of it frankly appears to me to be a serious lack of chemistry.  To those that ship Brallie do you guys really see true romantic tension/chemistry between the two actors?  Because frankly, it always seems oddly missing and forced to me.  In particular I contrast the Brandon-Callie interaction with that of Wyatt-Callie or AJ-Callie finding the sexual tension/romantic chemistry far more believable in these pairings.  

 

I am not sure whether its directorial direction or just David Lambert's shortcomings but I find that he saps a lot of energy out of a lot of his scenes in the episodes.  He is best playing off of Stef-Lena and to a lesser extent Mike, he was even tolerable in sibling interactions with Jesus and Mariana. However, every romantic pairing that they have placed him in, from the actress who played his first girlfriend, to Callie, to Lou(sp?) lacked pizazz.  Not quite sure what that's about but in a cast that has other young male romantic interests who for all their own acting shortfalls (I am talking about you Tom Williamson) at least seem to have genuine screen presence and chemistry with their fellow actors, I find Lambert's portrayal of Brandon to be bizarre.  

 

This is to say nothing of the fact that the last time we saw Callie engage in sexual interaction, she had a panic attack.  We are supposed to believe that she's worked out all of her issues around her budding sexuality in order to have a passionate night with Brandon, sans trauma?  As others have mentioned  I am not buying this evening as a release of passion that would proceed in the manner depicted in the scene.  

 

And lastly, the idea that Stef and Lena would leave Marianna and Callie at the party seems like bizarrely poor parenting.  I understand that Stef wanted to have a "talk" with Lena privately and perhaps that clouded her judgement but surely Lena (not knowing that Stef was going to confront her) should have had enough of a clear mind to see that leaving the three of them at the party unsupervised was a bad idea.  

 

Lastly, Like others have mentioned here it just appears that the writers have written themselves into a difficult corner by taking the Brandon-Callie relationship beyond flirtation and stolen kisses.  I will stick around to see how they negotiate themselves through this situation but if it becomes ridiculous I think like others I am going to have to bow out.  

[greekmom]

Finally saw the episode last night. 

I wanted to slap Brandon on the back of the head and say "you stupid".

I'm hoping it was all a dream ala Pam Ewing. (for you people who don't know this reference - google it).

As for the rest of them. Bestie of the Fosters that got involved with Monte. Comeon, you knew that she was experimenting with being with a woman. What did you expect? 

Felt bad for Marianna. 

Where was Jude?

 

[LeGrandElephant]

I agree it is implausible that Callie is just suddenly fine with going from zero to sex, after her last attempt at sex led to a panic attack. I hope they at least used a condom. Brandon has practice with them, so I assume they did.

Even if Callie lives with Robert, I don't love the idea of her and Brandon together. Its still awkwardly intertwined with family and has potential to make a lot of awkward and negative situations when they break up (and since they're 17, they will break up at some point), especially for Jude caught in the middle. But if Callie lives with Robert, it's more like dating within a close friend group or dating a coworker - not the best move but not as taboo as incest.

I still think Callie needs therapy now and dating in a couple years, regardless of who she lives with.

[marceline]

With all the Braille fuckery, I'd forgotten something else that confused/bothered me. What's going on with the hit and run? It looks like the show is about to say that AJ's brother caused the accident because he was driving his friend's car. Am I reading that right? If so, that's cheap, stupid, lazy writing.

[grannygeek]

 

Last night's overall ratings were the show's third-worst, behind 03x03 and 03x02. The demo was down to 0.4 from 0.5.

 

Good. Overall viewership down too. Just because I like to see consequences of poor choices,.

fwiw, my 19 yr old granddaughter lives with me and when Fosters is on she walks through the room and says "I can't believe you're still watching that crap". She's my window on the world of current culture.

[truthaboutluv]

To those that ship Brallie do you guys really see true romantic tension/chemistry between the two actors?  Because frankly, it always seems oddly missing and forced to me.  In particular I contrast the Brandon-Callie interaction with that of Wyatt-Callie or AJ-Callie finding the sexual tension/romantic chemistry far more believable in these pairings.

 

 

I don't ship Brandon and Callie but I didn't/don't ship any of the other pairings you listed and YMMV but I never saw the amazing chemistry some mentioned between Callie and Wyatt either and was never particularly enamored with the actor playing Wyatt. Yes even with his glorious hair. I feel much the same about Callie and AJ. The actor is okay but I don't see some amazing chemistry and sexual tension between them and frankly I found the kiss between them a bit forced and awkward. 

 

I think Brandon and Callie are decent enough in the romantic chemistry department - no more and no less than I've seen of most teenage pairings on television. I can't think of any teen pairings that have practically simmered and smoldered, in my opinion. Except for situations with a bunch of almost thirty-year olds playing teenagers. I think Brandon and Callie do have an inexplicable connection, if you want to call it that, that was established right from the start of the series and Maia and Brandon play it well. And while I don't ship them,  I do think their first kiss at Stef and Lena's wedding was pretty passionate and intense. 

 

My bigger unpopular opinion is that I think David Lambert is just fine as an actor. I understand where the hang-dog reactions come from because, particularly because of his eyes, I've found he does have this way of looking like he's always a second away from bursting into tears. But I personally think he as good as Maia and the two are the best of the younger set. I know some are enamored with the kid playing Jude and he's definitely grown since the show started but there are still some of that awkward child actor-ness from him. Mariana has improved a lot but the twins were both pretty awful when the show first started in my opinion.

 

It's interesting many dismiss David as this awful actor particularly in relation to hating Brallie yet often in the same breath mention preferring scenes with him and Stef or Mike. YMMV but I feel like that's less an issue of him just being an awful actor all around versus some just not seeing it with Brandon and Callie. But I think David has done a really good job with a lot of the things he's been asked to do - anger and frustration at Stef, or at Mike, his supporting Mike, his confession to them about what happened with Dani, dealing with the accident and fear he would never play again, etc.

 

I've always said that one of his best scenes and in my opinion one of the best scenes on the show, is when he goes to Mike to tell him he changed his mind about living with him and he sees the piano Mike had rented for him, set up in the back. The emotion that goes over his face as he realizes how lonely his dad is coupled with his sadness at telling him he can't live with him is pretty powerful and Mike just tells him it's okay. I love that scene - in fact, I love almost all the scenes focusing on Brandon and Mike's complicated father/son relationship.

Edited August 12, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[LeGrandElephant]

With all the Braille fuckery, I'd forgotten something else that confused/bothered me. What's going on with the hit and run? It looks like the show is about to say that AJ's brother caused the accident because he was driving his friend's car. Am I reading that right? If so, that's cheap, stupid, lazy writing.

 

Do we know when the hit and run happened relative to when AJ ran away from his previous foster home? I was guessing its going to turn out that Ty was the hit and run driver and that that's why he didn't show up when he was supposed to meet AJ. Definitely a bit of a contrived coincidence given they don't live in a tiny little town where everyone would repeatedly run into the same people. (Similarly, *maybe* having ex-husband and ex-wife as police partners would be plausible in a tiny town that literally only has 3 police officers, but it seems like something that wouldn't ever happen in a bigger area.)

Edited August 12, 2015 by LeGrandElephant

[ShadowFacts]

 

Where was Jude?

 

It was mentioned briefly that he was away at camp, these kids sure go to a lot of camps, don't they?

 

As to Ty, I think they want us to think he is the hit-and-run driver, but I sure hope there's a twist.  Maybe the evidence will be inconclusive and we'll be left to guess, but it seems they are rather heavy-handedly portraying him as the hostile, furtive young black man. 

 

My two cents on chemistry:  it's very subjective, and it's something that in real life, I rarely notice or comment on between couples I know/see.  It's more a thing in fiction, for me.  Callie and Wyatt are both sort of baby-faced to me and hence I don't see sparks, AJ has general charisma, and Brandon just comes off as all angst all the time.  If you look at the picture at the top of Al Lowe's post -- Brallie look completely joyless just prior to their tryst.

[itainttippithebird]

Among the MANY frustrating things about the episode/plot development, I truly don't understand the point of having both Rita AND Jude point out to her that she keeps putting herself in these same self-destructive patterns, and that the foster brother romances thing may be tied to her trauma with Liam and THEN turn around and play that Brallie scene as romantic. The fuuuuq? This just makes no narrative sense whatsoever.

 

IF this is going to ultimately be a story about how Brallie is a self-destructive mechanism, then maybe, ok (although god, how DARK is that sex scene if you know it's just about her trauma and not about their genuine connection) - but I have a feeling they aren't going to play it that way.

 

I don't understand why TPTB think we need to be kept right at arms' length from Callie's adoption and right within reach of Brallie in order to be hooked on the show. There's so much other dramatic tension to explore!

[morakot]

I've never found Brandon appealing -- the character is generally sulky (with and without reason) -- but I have to say that seeing him smile when he won the competition was the first time I saw him as young, happy, and quite cute. However, I think the character and Callie are wrong together, and, along with other commenters, am amazed that he magically cures Callie's issues with sex.

 

Side issue -- Wyatt's unlucky with the Foster girls, isn't he? Just a plot point... with the best hair in the show....

[Perfect Xero]

I think that part of Callie's panic attack with Wyatt might have simply been that ... Callie didn't really want to be with him. She was with him because he was a Brandon alternative.

[blackrose602]

I think that part of Callie's panic attack with Wyatt might have simply been that ... Callie didn't really want to be with him. She was with him because he was a Brandon alternative.

That's what I think too. I never got an ounce of chemistry in the Callie-Wyatt relationship, at least from her side. It read very much to me like he was her rebound. And I think deep down, her panic attack partially stemmed from wanting to reclaim her "first time" in a sense, and do it on her terms with someone she actually loved. If she had sex with Wyatt, she'd have a rape and a rebound in her past and no more opportunity for a do over.

I don't deny that the Brallie scene probably would have been enhanced by a moment of him asking if she was sure and her owning it, but I don't think the lack of that dragged it down either. She seemed pretty obviously into it.

In response to various other posts, I do see a lot of chemistry and longing between Brandon and Callie in every scene they have together. I also don't get the general disdain for David as an actor. I think Brandon is hot, exactly the look and personality I would have gone for at that age, and I think David portrays him honestly and authentically.

I don't believe that love conquers all, and I've been in the position in my own life of having to walk away from a "one true love" that was highly destructive. So I don't naively expect these two to live happily ever after. But I do think, as someone mentioned earlier, that they have one of those rare inexplicable connections that deserves to be explored. And if handled delicately, it could give us much richer and more plausible storylines than "how can Callie's adoption get screwed up again this week?"

[SparedTurkey]

I don't think Callie/Wyatt was the best ever possible pairing and probably not the best match for Callie as long term. As a good first boyfriend, yeah, why not.

BUT

I have ever seen it as being either a Callie/Wyatt or Callie/Brandon endgame situation, like some. If that was the contest then I would come down on Wyatt's side just because he was possibly ever going to be legally related to Callie. However, I do think Wyatt was good for Callie because he let her be Callie and supported her AND also called her out on her behaviour when appropriate. The only time I thought he possibly overstepped was during the Mexican festival when he beat up Liam/tried to get Callie out of there without her knowledge. But, I don't think it was him doing it for him, which is why I don't dislike him. He was also the one who called Lena/Stef when Callie ran in 1B. He was probably the ideal boyfriend if a girl wasn't into sex/freaked out for a PTSD reason - because he supported her and never pushed her. I think he is a good guy, and while I wish the show hadn't have written him with Mariana, he was also a good guy to Mariana and wasn't a pushy asshole to Callie about it (which on a lesser show, would have been).  I think he and Callie could have been good mates, if the actor wasn't on the other show.

 

I also like his hair. It is lush and wavy and nothing like mine. Not a character positive, but pretty.

 

But because this was brought up in topic - back to it - I don't dislike Brandon's actor. He is good with Lena/Stef/Mike/Mariana - everyone but Callie (and Jude). It gives me hope that we aren't supposed to root for Callie/Brandon but I I think that might be accidental. Brandon could be a good and interesting character but the writing is not backing it up. And probably won't for the time being. Sad. This show had so much going for it when it started.

[Perfect Xero]

I think he is a good guy, and while I wish the show hadn't have written him with Mariana, he was also a good guy to Mariana and wasn't a pushy asshole to Callie about it (which on a lesser show, would have been). 

 

Mileage varies, I thought he was a pretty big asshole to Callie about it during her birthday party.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Perfect Xero

[wagthedog]

I don't understand why TPTB think we need to be kept right at arms' length from Callie's adoption and right within reach of Brallie in order to be hooked on the show. There's so much other dramatic tension to explore!

This. Totally. I guess I just chalk it up to the fact this show airs on ABC Family and thus the teen angst relationship drama is just part of the deal, but I would love it if they would just let Callie be adopted and let Brandon and Callie be together or not.

 

On a different topic, I'm a little conflicted about the Stef/Lena relationship drama. Seems like this rocky patch is a pretty natural part of a relationship. Between raising kids and being together for many years, it's easy to see how a relationship could get off track. You have less time for each other, you take each other for granted, don't communicate as well, etc. None of it seems insurmountable and I'm sure it won't be. The writers have taken great pains to make sure Lena hasn't done anything unforgiveable. But there's a part of me that has never been a Stef fan. Even though she has good qualities and good intentions, she just kinda gets on my nerves. There's something about Lena and Monty that's fun. So even though I don't want to see Stef and Lena break up, I wouldn't mind seeing Lena and Monty together. Yes, I believe those things to be mutually exclusive. What can I say?

 

I believe Jude was at "Camp Child Labor Laws." Which I'm fine with. Even in real life not every sibling always makes it to every event of every other sibling. It's not like there was some critical interaction that needed to happen between Brandon and Jude.

 

I have found myself fairly annoyed by the Mariana loses her virginity story. There's just way too much guilt and shame on tv regarding the sexuality of teenage girls. The cheating part obviously wasn't good, but when you look at the bigger landscape of how the show has dealt with the virginity of it's teenage characters it seems to suggest that sex for boys is normal and fine, sex for girls involves judgement, shame, guilt, drama.

 

Brandon: first time happened before the show started, but the basic story was that he had sex, it was good, the end.

Jesus: Had sex. It was good. Yes, there was the pregnancy scare, but that wasn't about guilt and shame, it was about consequences.

Callie: first time was rape. And now there's this question of whether her choice of sexual partners is self-destructive.

Mariana: first time was cheating on her boyfriend.

 

It's too bad with Mariana's story because if you remove the cheating part, there was nothing wrong with the sex she had with Wyatt. It would be nice for these female characters to be depicted as having satisfying, healthy sex.

Edited August 13, 2015 by wagthedog

[ShadowFacts]

 

I have found myself fairly annoyed by the Mariana loses her virginity story. There's just way too much guilt and shame on tv regarding the sexuality of teenage girls. The cheating part obviously wasn't good, but when you look at the bigger landscape of how the show has dealt with the virginity of it's teenage characters it seems to show a general trend that shows sex for boys is normal and fine, sex for girls involves judgement, shame, guilt, drama.

 

I think part of it involves the biological fact that the consequences of sexuality always fall harder on the female. Males can go merrily on their way a whole lot easier.

 

 

It's too bad with Mariana's story because if you remove the cheating part, there was nothing wrong with the sex she had with Wyatt. It would be nice for these female characters to be depicted as having satisfying, healthy sex.

 

I can't agree totally.  Even though a condom had been used, Mariana was still rattled about possibly being pregnant.  She's only 15, pretty young to face the consequences of failed contraception.  I don't know how many young teens have satisfying, healthy sex, that seems to be something that takes time and experience.  Heck, even mature adults have struggles with it. 

[izabella]

I was never a fan of Donna Martin on the old 90210, but I kinda wish there were some teens on tv who decided for themselves that they just aren't ready to have sex because it actually is a big deal.  In my early experiences, the relationship changes once you have sex...suddenly the focus is on having sex more than getting to know each other emotionally and intellectually. 

 

It would be great to have some self-aware teens now and then rather than every teen being the kind of teen who just jumps into sex because they are 15.  Jeez, most would say 14 year olds are too young for sex; why is 15 magically so much more mature?  It isn't.

[SparedTurkey]

 

Mileage varies, I thought he was a pretty big asshole to Callie about it during her birthday party.

No I meant he was nice to Callie when the topic of sex came up in their relationship and was never pushy - which yeah, no points for doing the right thing but nice to see on a show.

 

And yes, I hate that this show has made a bigger deal out of the girls' virginities also.