S06.E02: Biscuits

[Rinaldo]

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

 I was referring to The Great Holiday Baking Show that was on this past winter ... the American bakers seemed to have been chosen less for their skills and more for possible personality pops. 

The American bakers were indeed not of a terribly high standard. I'm not sure if it was because of the personality issue you mention, or just because the available talent pool wasn't huge: It was filmed in the autumn in the UK on relatively short notice, and depending on which source you read, the bakers either had to fly over there for the duration, or they had to be already resident in the UK. There aren't a massive number of people who can pick up and do the former, or who are in the latter situation; and of those, not a large percentage are interested in this show, and of those, not that many will actually be stellar bakers. So the show had to take what it could find.

[cardigirl]

2 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

The American bakers were indeed not of a terribly high standard. I'm not sure if it was because of the personality issue you mention, or just because the available talent pool wasn't huge: It was filmed in the autumn in the UK on relatively short notice, and depending on which source you read, the bakers either had to fly over there for the duration, or they had to be already resident in the UK. There aren't a massive number of people who can pick up and do the former, or who are in the latter situation; and of those, not a large percentage are interested in this show, and of those, not that many will actually be stellar bakers. So the show had to take what it could find.

Really?  Well that would definitely limit the pool of potential bakers to choose from.  I thought for sure it was shot here in the States.  Thanks for the information. 

I really wanted to like it, but it fell flat for me.

[stillshimpy]

I found him generally unpleasant and decided at that point he was saved for the drama of his unpleasant personality, or the production crew set up the plan for him to try and get away with hiding his cookies with the guarantee that he wouldn't go home for the drama and that was the end for me; it just wasn't enjoyable to watch.

Yeah.  He won.  Like I said, failed endeavor all around.  

[candall]

3 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

The main problem with the American Show was....okay, it was just problematic from start to finish.  For starters, Jeff Foxworthy, who seems an entirely decent human being, wanted to throw a little bit of business towards his home state economy and the whole thing was filmed in Georgia.  In a tent in Georgia.  Yeah, let the "Holy Jesus, what about the humidity levels and what did that do to everything?" sink in for a second.   The short answer is:  Everything you would imagine and nothing good.  The longer answer involves using the exact same setup with the adorable dollhouse fridges and copious amounts of butter that needed to chill, mousse that needed to set and all the drama American TV Editors cannot resist playing up over people fighting over fridge space. 

Then, again, as an example, one of the contestants who made it all the way through to the final, lived in a manufactured home (not that there's a darned thing wrong with that, by the way) with her bedridden father stored in a hospital bed along the wall, where he would feebly and gamely wave to the cameras from flat on his back (seemed a perfectly nice older man) while voiceovers of this same contestant would play talking about how her family needed the money for X, Y, Z and her family's future was riding on this.  Then add to that that Paul Hollywood was one of the judges (more on that in a tick) and these were all County Fair type of baking champs, many of whom used a metric fuckton of sugar in everything, so Paul liked very little....except his cohost.  

However, Paul put his personal life back together on the UK side of the ocean and remains married so the only reason that part is worth mentioning is that the story broke while it was airing here in the US and the aforementioned Jeff Foxworthy kind of clearly was aware after a time that his fellow hosts were reacting to the Georgia humidity about as well as the various baked goods were (rather disastrously) and it became possible to spot the point at which the man was just uncomfortable and wishing it was over, which he compensated for by hanging out around the bakers a lot.  Only this isn't the sweet, "Winner gets a hearty handshake and the admiration of their village houses as well as a grateful nation" competition, there was some sort of serious money on the line, so most of the time he was there being thoroughly decent and charming, in amongst people who would have gladly had mortal combat with a spatula and cookie sheet shield to win. 

So basically it failed on multiple levels.  

LOL, now I really want to see it.

Holy shit, a tent, in the summer, in Georgia??  Did they have ovens or did they let the stuff just sit there and bake right on the counter?

[Rinaldo]

Probably it's hopeless to try to do this show in the US, the culture is too different. But my reaction after the attempts at American versions is that one big mistake was trying to make it "the same" in a simplistic way. Yes, we in the US love to see the tent on the green and all, but that's indigenous there, the openness to the outdoors and the village-fête atmosphere. We're about air conditioning and the latest appliances and massive sizes of everything, and I think that has to be embraced, for better or worse. Shoot it in a TV studio, or a similar space -- with windows to the outdoors if you insist, but unopenable ones so the climate can be controlled. And big latest-generation refrigerators. And if Paul Hollywood thinks American fruit or cream pies are revolting, or the combination of chocolate and peanut butter is ridiculous, find a judge who doesn't. 

[sugarbaker design]

I love the British show, I don't watch it for the tent.  I watch it because it's fun, it's good-hearted, the contestants like each other, and nobody acts like an asshole.  American shows seem to have a requisite of one asshole per half hour of airtime, therefore an hour show must have two assholes.  I don't watch shows where contestants tell the judges they don't know what they're talking about.  I work with too many assholes to watch them on TV.

[Christina]

3 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

Yeah.  He won.  Like I said, failed endeavor all around.  

So glad I bailed then. I've considered trying to watch it again, but haven't bothered. I really would have been mad at myself for sitting through it with him winning at the end. It sucks when jerks prevail. He may be a nice guy in real life who is just super-competitive in an unpleasant way, or was willing to let himself be used by production for (I think it was) $250,000. I'm sure I would act a fool on television for that much, or $100k, maybe even $25k. Hey production companies: Make me an offer!

[Brookside]

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2015 at 4:31 AM, Kromm said:

She's not going to go any further than the last young un' on this show though. Paul and Mary don't seem to take the young contestants very seriously. I mean she placed second in the part of the show where no bias was possible, but then when asked which bakers were in contention for Star Baker, of course Paul never even mentioned her (I mean after the second challenge--clearly after the broken box in the third she was never going to be).

 

Last year Martha went very far while studying for the difficult British final High School exams.  Ruby the year before made final 3 I believe while studying for difficult university exams.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Brookside

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, paramitch said:

See, even the posts for this show are nicer and sweeter than they are for other shows. Sniffle. (Although on the plus side, Dorrett already gave me that really sweet moment with Sue, which I just thought was so funny and kind. I will definitely remember it as one of the big moments of this season.)

That's so true. A while back, I was going to make a comment that was ever so slightly rude, and slightly off color, and then I decided "nah, this isn't the forum for that kind of comment, I'm not going to harsh the vibe."

Edited July 13, 2016 by clanstarling

[lucindabelle]

3 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

Probably it's hopeless to try to do this show in the US, the culture is too different. But my reaction after the attempts at American versions is that one big mistake was trying to make it "the same" in a simplistic way. Yes, we in the US love to see the tent on the green and all, but that's indigenous there, the openness to the outdoors and the village-fête atmosphere. We're about air conditioning and the latest appliances and massive sizes of everything, and I think that has to be embraced, for better or worse. Shoot it in a TV studio, or a similar space -- with windows to the outdoors if you insist, but unopenable ones so the climate can be controlled. And big latest-generation refrigerators. And if Paul Hollywood thinks American fruit or cream pies are revolting, or the combination of chocolate and peanut butter is ridiculous, find a judge who doesn't. 

Yes good points I watched the one with Nia Vardalos and laughed at Mary's reactions to the Georgia cook flavored... Putting bacon in with sweets wss something Mary Berry hadn't heard of and its years old already here as a fad. 

 

I wouldn't have only american judges valuing those odd cold meat pies the Brits make, and for american baking, you need at least one american judge up on fads and tastes here,

[Mabinogia]

This show, the vibe of this show, doesn't translate into an American produced show. It's just a different sensibility. There's a charm that just can't be reproduced. I don't even know if this show could survive a casting change, in judges or hosts. The foursome play so very well off each other. When Mel (I think it was her) said Mary was their Golden Berry, and Mary looked so pleased to have her say it, you could feel the genuine love they all have for each other. It's just lightening in a bottle.

[Portia]

Quote

See, even the posts for this show are nicer and sweeter than they are for other shows. 

That's fucking bullshit.  

Haha sorry, I couldn't resist!   ;-D

[meep.meep]

On 7/11/2016 at 5:02 PM, DocTerv said:

While I had no idea what an arlette was either, I can say that those "goats outside the tent" are actually sheep. Herbridean sheep to be exact. I now feel compelled to to check in with my own sheep and their opinions on the palatability of biscotti.

They are definitely sheep not goats, but they are not Hebridean sheep.

"The Hebridean is a breed of small black sheep from Scotland, similar to other members of the Northern European short-tailed sheep group, having a short, triangular tail. They often have two pairs of horns."

These are not black, small, or horned.

[stillshimpy]

5 hours ago, meep.meep said:

These are not black, small, or horned.

You don't know.  Maybe they had a makeover for the show.  *ducks*bobs*weaves* 

Okay, probably not.  

Edited July 16, 2016 by stillshimpy

[kokapetl]

The British define biscuits (in part) as going soft when stale. In Britain they have a slightly soft, biscuit like product called Jaffa Cakes, and they are legally cakes because they harden when they turn stale.  

There was/is an Australian version of the show, and they filmed it in a purpose built tent like structure that must've had air conditioning. The American tv network (CBS?) could've done at least that. 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Kokapetl

[stillshimpy]

They are definitely sheep not goats, but they are not Hebridean sheep.

"The Hebridean is a breed of small black sheep from Scotland, similar to other members of the Northern European short-tailed sheep group, having a short, triangular tail. They often have two pairs of horns."

These are not black, small, or horned.

Oddly enough, in subsequent episodes I've kept an eye out for the sheep and....they are small and black with signs of de-horning.  So they do appear to be Hebridean sheep in a lot of shots.  

[Lamb18]

On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 1:28 PM, meep.meep said:

They are definitely sheep not goats, but they are not Hebridean sheep.

"The Hebridean is a breed of small black sheep from Scotland, similar to other members of the Northern European short-tailed sheep group, having a short, triangular tail. They often have two pairs of horns."

These are not black, small, or horned.

The picture of the sheep is the poster's own sheep, while she's referring to the sheep on the show as Hebridean. (The sheep in the picture look like Icelandic sheep.)

[theatremouse]

On 7/16/2016 at 11:06 PM, Kokapetl said:

The British define biscuits (in part) as going soft when stale. In Britain they have a slightly soft, biscuit like product called Jaffa Cakes, and they are legally cakes because they harden when they turn stale.  

There was/is an Australian version of the show, and they filmed it in a purpose built tent like structure that must've had air conditioning. The American tv network (CBS?) could've done at least that. 

I have been in an air conditioned tent for a large party before. I would imagine that would be hell for the sound engineers.

I also always want to like Jaffa cakes, so then I eat them and realize I just don't.

[kokapetl]

It wasn't really a tent, it was made of wood, steel and glass. It was just the same basic shape as the tents. 

[paramitch]

I think "Biscuits" is weirdly one of my favorite eps of this show across seasons, since it's such a great combo of sweet & savory. I do think we're also seeing the contestants gel and become a mutually supportive unit, too.

On 7/11/2016 at 1:32 PM, Portia said:

With respect, paramitch, I called dibs on Sue. ;-)  Here's how weird I am...I researched her and when I confirmed that she is indeed gay, there was a part of me that thought, "Ah, so I do have a chance with her."  Let me reiterate that I am straight. Been married to a dude for 28 years.

That's awesome, @Portia! :-) I still totally crush on Sue, and love that she is not only fierce in supporting contestants on-camera but is simply playing the role of who she is, comfortable in her own skin. She evinces a total commitment to being kind on camera. What's not to love? She is wonderful, one of my favorite reality personalities ever. And she and Mel are adorable together, the perfect team.

On 7/13/2016 at 7:46 AM, candall said:

(Edited for space)

You go ahead and work that multi-quote button, @paramitch!

This is my first GBBO and I truly enjoy how much you all relax and luxuriate in the warm bubblebath of its embrace.  The temperament of the agreeable personalities does make the American push for drama seem extra shrill. 

I guess my taste in baked goods isn't very British, though--so many with alcoholic flavors.  And the Mary Berry palate seems to require a require a real wallop.

I have no trouble knocking back a stiff one but I prefer to spend my pastry calories on warm spices and rich creamy butter flavors.  And the greater the quotient of butter to flour, the better.  Wrapping the dough INSIDE the butter was fabulous--why, I didn't even know such a thing was possible!

Thanks, @Candall! But -- what's the issue? Bread? Delicious! Alcoholic beverage? Delicious? Combination of the two? NIRVANA! ;-)

I loved the dough-inside-of-butter maneuver since it was such a brilliant inverse of most pastry techniques and made them rethink their usual approaches.

On 7/13/2016 at 0:00 PM, forumfish said:

Re: filming in a tent in Georgia -- I'm a Texan but the climate is similar, and there are certain foods you just don't dare make when the humidity is high. One is divinity -- talk about a gooey mess!

I think they're able to circumvent that with (I suspect) determined air conditioning and de-humidification. The English setting probably sets everything at a base temperature that is cool enough, also, to give them a baseline to work with for most recipes and contestants.

On 7/13/2016 at 0:59 PM, Rinaldo said:

Probably it's hopeless to try to do this show in the US, the culture is too different. But my reaction after the attempts at American versions is that one big mistake was trying to make it "the same" in a simplistic way. Yes, we in the US love to see the tent on the green and all, but that's indigenous there, the openness to the outdoors and the village-fête atmosphere. We're about air conditioning and the latest appliances and massive sizes of everything, and I think that has to be embraced, for better or worse. Shoot it in a TV studio, or a similar space -- with windows to the outdoors if you insist, but unopenable ones so the climate can be controlled. And big latest-generation refrigerators. And if Paul Hollywood thinks American fruit or cream pies are revolting, or the combination of chocolate and peanut butter is ridiculous, find a judge who doesn't. 

I do think it might be possible to do this show in the U.S. but (1) that ship has most definitely sailed, and (2) as you note, part of its allure is the wonderful feeling that it is another place and time apart from us. And I love its Englishness, so I wouldn't change a thing, except to make them produce it twice (thrice?) a year. At least. I love this show.

On 7/13/2016 at 4:59 PM, Mabinogia said:

There's a charm that just can't be reproduced. I don't even know if this show could survive a casting change, in judges or hosts. The foursome play so very well off each other. When Mel (I think it was her) said Mary was their Golden Berry, and Mary looked so pleased to have her say it, you could feel the genuine love they all have for each other. It's just lightening in a bottle.

I absolutely don't think the show could survive the loss of Mel or Sue, even more than Paul and our darling Mary. It is a complex recipe executed to perfection as-is.

Edited July 20, 2016 by paramitch

[jpgr]

2 hours ago, paramitch said:

I absolutely don't think the show could survive the loss of Mel or Sue, even more than Paul and our darling Mary. It is a complex recipe executed to perfection as-is.

I agree! I was also a Mel/Sue doubter at the beginning, but have grown to love them so much. Their "Ready" "Set" "Bake!" routine, their determination to defuse tension for the bakers, their positivity, and their silly puns - I adore it all, and it really helps make GBBO the best show on the telly.

[tenativelyyours]

I was thinking those sheep look like Cheviots.

 

I find Sue and Mel work best together.  I think they are no irreplaceable though,  Unpopular as that is.  I think it would be hard but it could be done.  I also don't find Paul as intrinsic to my viewing pleasure as most fans likely do either.  Mary is the one element I don't think can be replaced for the British version of this show. 

[Christina]

Regarding the air conditioning in the tent, there was an episode, and I don't remember which season, where they pushed back the technical challenge to day two because it was too hot in the tents. They usually do two cooks on day one and the showstopper on day two, but that day, they called it after the first one because of the heat. 

[Lamb18]

I think a charming American version could be done, but it has to be American charm, not British charm, if that makes sense. If you try to copy the British version exactly, then you just get a second-best (at best) version. You have to identify what's charming and lovable and translate it to the US. In thinking about it, I know the perfect place to shoot it, too! Out by where I live there is a working farm that is part of the regional park district. There are sheep and cows and pigs and chickens! There is a large building used for events - it looks like a giant barn - it's booked for weddings every weekend for sixth months of the year. It's large enough to hold all the stations and camera equipment, personnel, etc. There's also a nice flat grassy area that's not pasture that could also hold a large tent, but inside would be better. The closest lodging would be around 7 - 10 miles away.  The harder part, now, is to find hosts and judges that have the niceness of the British ones, although I thought Jeff was pretty nice. Oh, well, it's nice thing to think about at work instead of my actual work.

[vibeology]

15 hours ago, tenativelyyours said:

I find Sue and Mel work best together.  I think they are no irreplaceable though,  Unpopular as that is.  I think it would be hard but it could be done.  I also don't find Paul as intrinsic to my viewing pleasure as most fans likely do either.  Mary is the one element I don't think can be replaced for the British version of this show. 

Paul is totally replaceable in my opinion. I like the guy but I think there are probably other bakers out there who could fill into his slot. I too watched both the full season of the US show and the Christmas season. Paul without Mary was not good, Mary still worked without Paul. In fact, Johnny Iuzzini was one of the bright spots of that Christmas season. He had knowledge, seemed to judge things fairly and had great co-judge chemistry with Mary.

This show could work in the US, but like every other British reality TV import, you can't just bring it over wholesale. It seems to quirky and quaint for American audiences. You need to acknowledge that people can't travel home every weekend as the US is too big for that, you'd need to give the contestants either a huge list of things beforehand to practice or build practice days into the schedule. I would do the latter and use that for extra web content and find a way to get some product placement in there to pay for that extra time in the schedule. You would need judges who are at least open to American baking traditions. Chocolate and peanut butter are a thing here, so is sweet potato pie, cornbread etc. The show will be more competitive but I think it could still be charming with the right cast and producers

[snarktini]

1 hour ago, vibeology said:

Paul is totally replaceable in my opinion

Agreed. He does a solid job, but he's replaceable. Fair to note that I'm biased, he's my least favorite on the show -- after basking in the glow of the ladies' warmth, he feels cold and stiff. A friend of mine loves how he screws with contestants and revels in making them uncomfortable: "Oh, you're doing it that way? Good luck." Unlike her, I find this off-putting and affected. It's the one American element of the show, his version of the Colicchio Sniff and Sneer. 

[Athena]

Since this discussion is no longer about biscuits and GBBO itself, I have created a thread for the discussion of translating GBBO to the US. Please move and continue the discussion accordingly. Thanks!

[susannot]

Hello everyone!  This is my favorite food show currently, even though it has extremely erratic showing times on our local PBS station. Even my husband enjoys it, and he thinks American food shows are ridiculous.  This show is great because the contestants are actually highly skilled, the tasks are very difficult, the judges are knowledgeable, and the focus is on food, not drama.  I was sorry to see Scottish grandma Marie leave in episode 2 but she was 0 for 3 in the challenges.  I was completely amazed by the bakers' accomplishments in the episode.  Agree that Ian was the most amazing of all. I have taken cooking classes for macarons and they are fiendishly difficult.  Kudos to Ian for perfect, beautiful macarons.

[Crs97]

Did anyone else think Nadiya lucked out considerably when Sue broke her bowl?  She had already rebaked it and stated she wasn’t going to have time to decorate it properly.  Now she could just point to Sue and shrug like Sue was the only reason it was “rustic.”