Episode v. Feeds: To Tell the Truth

[leocadia]

1 minute ago, Callaphera said:

They also didn't show Scottie pouring milk over JC's clothes. It makes me wonder if he did or if it was just milk from the bottom of everyone's shoes as they trampled over all the clothes and shit on the floor of the blue and pink bedrooms.

Granted, what Scottie did was stupid and kind of gross, but at least he had a strategic thought behind it.  Fessy was just having "fun" with the sugar and whatever cup he sent flying on the first trip of his they showed.  I think you may be right about Scottie not maliciously throwing milk on JC's clothes, but he's the "target" this week, so of course he did that and tore through Sam's stuff as well.  I liked that (from what they showed) Tyler and Brett were causing havoc and making a mess without taking it to the nonsensical destruction that James started a few seasons back.  Food should never be involved, especially milk!  This comp lasts for hours, that had to smell!!

[Callaphera]

And let's be fair to Scottie: he got down on his hands and knees and scrubbed that floor clean since he was the one who poured the milk and juice out. He did it wrong and we had fun laughing at him on the feeds but he still did it. Unlike Fuck you, Fessy. 

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

And let's be fair to Scottie: he got down on his hands and knees and scrubbed that floor clean since he was the one who poured the milk and juice out. He did it wrong and we had fun laughing at him on the feeds but he still did it. Unlike Fuck you, Fessy. 

Yeah, every single person who made the most mess actually cleaned it up. Scottie cleaned that entire floor with a rag. Angela cleaned out the oven (not very well, as we now know from today's events). Brett tidied up the entire Have Not room. Tyler worked on fixing the Blue Bedroom. 

Meanwhile, King Fessy went to shower for half an hour, or more since the feeds were down,  and then complained and whined about how he "should" go help, but he's HOH. JC even told him that he should go help since he made the mess. And then he proceeded to stand around most of the time, as if he didn't know how to clean, and then half assed mopped the floor and held the Swiffer that they had...and then wandered around the house before heating up a pizza and pouring himself a drink and heading upstairs. Even JC helped out with the cleaning for a bit. 

[Callaphera]

I CAN'T WITH HALEIGH'S (and Big Brother's) REVISIONIST HISTORY.

You drove the bus over Scottie first, Haleigh. And then you threw it in reverse and beep-beep-beeped over Scottie's ass again. And then threw it back into drive and slammed on the gas. Don't go crying in the DR and to the other HGs about how you always had Scottie's back. You never have. 

[peachmangosteen]

That got me so riled up! I'm confused as to why they chose to edit it that way.

[Halting Hex]

So did Brett actually make the "suck my dick, Fessy" veto speech he was planning on and they just edited around it?  Or did Angela ultimately talk him out of it?  If so, boo Angela, some more.

[lilabennet]

It is amazing how they twist the truth on the episodes.  Angela had already decided to put up Hay/Fess before JC came to talk to her.  Saying, "JC! Tell me what to do!" was just a sop to his ego.  And then they had to patiently listen to him blather on and on and on.  I really don't appreciate JC getting more credit than he deserves.

[green]

11 minutes ago, lilabennet said:

It is amazing how they twist the truth on the episodes.  Angela had already decided to put up Hay/Fess before JC came to talk to her.  Saying, "JC! Tell me what to do!" was just a sop to his ego.  And then they had to patiently listen to him blather on and on and on.  I really don't appreciate JC getting more credit than he deserves.

But it was excellent game play on Angela's part.  Just wasn't a good look for viewers of the TV show only thinking JC actually turned Angela away from making a dumb decision.

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, lilabennet said:

I really don't appreciate JC getting more credit than he deserves.

I find his edit even more perplexing than Haleigh's. He is a disgusting piece of shit that defies Production at every turn, why are they making him out to be some kind of mastermind? It's so strange.

Edited August 27, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[Lady Calypso]

15 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I find his edit even more perplexing than Haleigh's. He is a disgusting piece of shit that defies Production at every turn, why are they making him out to be some kind of mastermind? It's so strange.

It's not even just that. If they don't portray him as a mastermind, they portray him as the cute funny guy. Now, I don't deny JC has made some good game moves, but pretending that he has as much power as the show edits him to have is just laughable. He's a good gameplayer, but let's not pretend he's controlling the house in any way. The only one he's controlled is Fessy. Which bugs me a LOT when there are constant cheers for JC when he's voting or when he's doing something on the live shows. That's just guaranteeing him a spot in the top 3 for AFP, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him win it, which doesn't make me happy.

[Lady Calypso]

From the Veto thread:

Quote

Or it indicates that Production was just pulling numbers out of their ass [/cynic] and that's why I would have preferred to see all the relevant action so that I wouldn't have to worry about this.  Yes, it would take a little more time and we'd lose some "suspense" (although not all the viewers were keeping score, I'm sure), but it would make the show's integrity unquestionable.  And after nonsense like last season's "Weatherman" veto, where they didn't even bother to explain the rules to the viewers, they could use a little more of that, IMO.

Ultimately, I do think that they didn't show a good chunk of the comp. The issue is that we would definitely need to count how many balls were in the basket in the episode before the houseguest carried it off.  We do know that this comp took 10 hours. We know the houseguests were in lockdown for about 6.5 hours. I don't know what happened in the missing 3.5 hours, but we know there was a lot of time omitted. We also know that the order of who went when is not accurate in the episode. JC was the last one to go. But, depending on if the rules specified right off the bat how many points each round had, they should have been able to guess how many points they had. I feel like, if production skewed the numbers, Kaycee and Fessy would have known, since they'd have an idea of how many points they got for themselves. I know I'd be mentally keeping track as I was going through, at least during the down times.

There are many comps that production could rig for their own benefit. This one is in one of the grey areas, as we don't know exactly how the rules were explained to them. 

[Nashville]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

Ultimately, I do think that they didn't show a good chunk of the comp.

Thing is, though: with the exception of the comps played out live, Production hardly ever (never?) shows viewers the entire comp - and frankly, this comp is an excellent example why.  TPTB edited down at least 6+ hours of comp play to about 15-20 minutes of screen time, and folks were still saying it dragged.  Truth is, large stretches of long comps are simply boring - and bored viewers are anathema to Production.

 

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

But, depending on if the rules specified right off the bat how many points each round had, they should have been able to guess how many points they had. I feel like, if production skewed the numbers, Kaycee and Fessy would have known, since they'd have an idea of how many points they got for themselves. I know I'd be mentally keeping track as I was going through, at least during the down times.

Exactly.  If I were <shudder> Fessy and I thought for one second TPTB were gimmicking my numbers to rip me off on a (for me) game-critical Veto, I’d be threatening to walk - unless Production pulled me into the DR with a pencil, a pad of paper, and the raw footage for my and Kaycee’s individual comp runs.  And all of us would sit there until every ball and every squid had been accounted for.

The fact we DIDN’T see this out of Fessy indicates - to me, anyway - the tally displayed on-screen corresponded with Fessy’s own count.

Although *I* would still want to see the raw on Kaycee’s run.  With pad and pencil.  ;)

[Halting Hex]

I'll admit, I got spoiled by OTT, seeing everything in real time.  (Not to mention, it's the only time I've ever watched the feeds, as I refuse to spoil myself for the comp results without seeing them.)  I just don't trust production.  Which I don't think is a sign that I'm nuts…but then again, if I were, would I know it?

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

I'll admit, I got spoiled by OTT, seeing everything in real time.  (Not to mention, it's the only time I've ever watched the feeds, as I refuse to spoil myself for the comp results without seeing them.)  I just don't trust production.  Which I don't think is a sign that I'm nuts…but then again, if I were, would I know it?

Well... to quote one of my old college psych professors:

“Everybody’s rationales and justifications make 100% perfectly logical and absolutely rational sense - to them.

Unfortunately, the ‘everybody’ in that context includes serial killers.”

;)

[mikewho]

I watch the episodes and I read the Live Feed thread.

I don't understand WHY episode-only fans wouldn't want to read this thread after the show's been aired.

After all, there's so much more info to be learned, it's old information anyway, and I'd think it would be interesting to become aware of how skewed the episodes are.

I feel like to only pay attention to the episodes is to only know about 1/4 of what's really going on. I'd much rather know what's really going on.

[HurricaneVal]

I swear to dawg, if JC wins "America's Favorite Player" due to his adorable little imp broadcast edit, I'm going to go Sam-crazy.

[IndyMischa]

1 hour ago, mikewho said:

I watch the episodes and I read the Live Feed thread.

I don't understand WHY episode-only fans wouldn't want to read this thread after the show's been aired.

After all, there's so much more info to be learned, it's old information anyway, and I'd think it would be interesting to become aware of how skewed the episodes are.

I feel like to only pay attention to the episodes is to only know about 1/4 of what's really going on. I'd much rather know what's really going on.

I feel the same way, but I'm an overthinking information junkie. Mileage may vary, I guess?

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, mikewho said:

I watch the episodes and I read the Live Feed thread.

I don't understand WHY episode-only fans wouldn't want to read this thread after the show's been aired.

After all, there's so much more info to be learned, it's old information anyway, and I'd think it would be interesting to become aware of how skewed the episodes are.

I feel like to only pay attention to the episodes is to only know about 1/4 of what's really going on. I'd much rather know what's really going on.

 

2 minutes ago, IndyMischa said:

I feel the same way, but I'm an overthinking information junkie. Mileage may vary, I guess?

Same here - but I can see where some might be afraid of spoiler content popping up which goes beyond the scope of the currently-aired broadcasts.

[lilabennet]

I don't have a problem with people choosing to be episodes only.  I just don't understand why episode only watchers would bother to have such vitriolic opinions about the houseguests when they know they have seen only a heavily-edited sliver of the full story.  My mind it be boggled.

[Nashville]

4 minutes ago, lilabennet said:

I don't have a problem with people choosing to be episodes only.  I just don't understand why episode only watchers would bother to have such vitriolic opinions about the houseguests when they know they have seen only a heavily-edited sliver of the full story.  My mind it be boggled.

“There are none so blind, as those who will not see.”  ;)

[mikewho]

17 minutes ago, IndyMischa said:

I feel the same way, but I'm an overthinking information junkie. Mileage may vary, I guess?

INDYMISCHA...I think we're actually on the same page.

 

5 minutes ago, lilabennet said:

I just don't understand why episode only watchers would bother to have such vitriolic opinions about the houseguests when they know they have seen only a heavily-edited sliver of the full story.

I've known episode only watchers who've said, 'ALL the supposed reality TV shows are highly edited. Survivor, Amazing Race, etc. But I don't believe in that editing skews the facts stuff. When I watch the episodes, I get the basic facts.'

I've tried to use the argument of 'Yeah, but BB has live feeds, so you actually SEE what happens first.'

[ghoulina]

Show only watcher here. 

I don't want the feeds mainly because I don't have the time. This show is already on 3 nights a week! And I watch way too much TV, outside of BB, as it is.

I'm also not about to pay for it. 

I rarely look at the feeds thread, because it's soooo much. Time issue, again. 

But I do want to know what's really going on. I don't need every bit of minutia; but if a major occurrence is completely left out or a player gets an edit that is totally off, I want to know.

I'm just scared of spoilers. I'm notoriously spoiler adverse. For EVERYTHING. Sometimes I peek on a Thursday night if I don't want to wait to see who wins HOH,but that's on a case by case basis.

All this to say - I appreciate this thread. Please keep it up; it's very concise and I like being able to get a feel for things without having to wade through the live feed thread.

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

All this to say - I appreciate this thread. Please keep it up; it's very concise and I like being able to get a feel for things without having to wade through the live feed thread.

For sure this is a good thread. Even if you're a show-only watcher and just have some questions, posting here and asking for not too many spoilers is a good way of getting your questions answered AND not getting spoiled for certain events. This is a spoiler-filled space, but also a neutral space between show-only watchers and live feeders to not just vent about the show's edit, but also get questions answered about specific things. 

[Callaphera]

JC's AFP run continues. I cringe every time the live audience laughs at his antics. It was slight this time but it was still there. Also, Julie's indulgent smile when it comes to JC is just gross. Especially because of what he's been doing recently. 

I get it. He's smaller so people look at him like he's childlike and let him get away with a lot more shit than they would other people a more standard height. But it leaves me with a grungy feeling when JC gets this funny guy edit and instead he's trying to tie open the bathroom door when Haleigh is literally on the toilet and feeling up Tyler in Tyler's sleep. And the ice cream scooper. And constantly calling Rachel transgender. And the N word/M word debacle. And and and...

Fuck you, JC. 

[IndyMischa]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Even if you're a show-only watcher and just have some questions, posting here and asking for not too many spoilers is a good way of getting your questions answered AND not getting spoiled for certain events. 

This. :) I am wayyyyy too invested in this show, and will happily yammer on about it forever. But I feel a little weird about randomly coming to this thread unprompted to bitch about the edit. Answering questions, on the other hand, is nothing but joy. 

(Yes, I need a hobby. Desperately.) 

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, IndyMischa said:

This. :) I am wayyyyy too invested in this show, and will happily yammer on about it forever. But I feel a little weird about randomly coming to this thread unprompted to bitch about the edit. Answering questions, on the other hand, is nothing but joy. 

(Yes, I need a hobby. Desperately.) 

But on the other hand - your new avatar looks fabulous.  ;)

[MrHufflepuff]

12 hours ago, mikewho said:

I've known episode only watchers who've said, 'ALL the supposed reality TV shows are highly edited. Survivor, Amazing Race, etc. But I don't believe in that editing skews the facts stuff. When I watch the episodes, I get the basic facts.'

I've tried to use the argument of 'Yeah, but BB has live feeds, so you actually SEE what happens first.'

I don't see how anyone can make that argument about this show.  It's completely obvious that this show is heavily scripted and edited.  I liken it to really bad improv.  They have a clip show, for pete's sake.  They put in cheesy effects.  The TV show is not a "reality" show in any sense of the word.

[ghoulina]

My husband told me JC was in the news. So I googled it. Saying I'm disgusted would be an understatement. 

I read that both Tyler and Haleigh were spoken to and don't have an overall concern. I empathize with them, because I know they're in a tough spot. 

For those who watch the feeds, do you get a feeling that Tyler and Haleigh DO have an issue with the things that happened, but feel that calling for action would risk their game?

I mean, ultimately, it shouldn't matter. IMO. He should be sent packing. What, do they want to wait until something truly terrible happens?

What pisses me off, more than anything, is CBS refusing to air these incidents; and, instead, continuing to give JC the "funny, little scamp" edit. They need to be taken to task.

[Lamb18]

From reading the Feeds thread, I'd say Haleigh was very upset and angry at what JC did. Tyler seemed to be asleep so his was more creepy. He seems to be over JC but covers it well.  I have seen him just walk away from JC when JC starts a conversation. Haleigh's was just awful and if anyone did that to another person at work, the perpetrator would be canned immediately. Sam was the only house guest who told JC what he did was wrong.

I'd say for the sake of their game, both Haleigh and Tyler are putting the incidents behind them.

[Nashville]

Tonight’s episode incorporated two textbook examples of how the broadcast show can diverge from reality:

1. How the show can be so heavily slant-edited as to mislead.  Right from the show’s opening montage, TPTB are bending over backwards in their attempts to portray JC as this season’s mastermind - first painting JC as the architect of Scottie’s eviction (which JC did play a significant role in, but let’s face it - in no way can manipulating the single-called organism Fessy calls a brain be classified as “a lot of hard work”), and then giving JC primary credit for Angela’s nominations putting Fessy and Hay OTB side-by-side - a stratagem L6 had already worked out well in advance of JC ever opening his mouth.
2. Re-cutting and inserting out-of-order footage to extend scenes.  In the actual HoH comp, one notable (and somewhat comical) aspect of this particular comp was Hay saying out loud to Production after a particularly solid Pie slam, “Can you hit me a little harder next time?  I want everything you got” - then getting knocked off the very next time she revolved back around to contact with the Pie.  The broadcast, though, was edited to make it appear Hay’s fall didn’t occur until 2 or 3 revolutions after her comment.  One can only assume Production decided the Pie wasn’t the only thing in need of extra filling.

Just two good examples of how what you see wasn’t necessarily what was got.  :)

Edited September 3, 2018 by Nashville
Typo

[Slider]

15 hours ago, Nashville said:

Tonight’s episode incorporated two textbook examples of how the broadcast show can diverge from reality:

1. How the show can be so heavily slant-edited as to mislead.  Right from the show’s opening montage, TPTB are bending over backwards in their attempts to portray JC as this season’s mastermind - first painting JC as the architect of Scottie’s eviction (which JC did play a significant role in, but let’s face it - in no way can manipulating the single-called organism Fessy calls a brain be classified as “a lot of hard work”), and then giving JC primary credit for Angela’s nominations putting Fessy and Hay OTB side-by-side - a stratagem L6 had already worked out well in advance of JC ever opening his mouth.
2. Re-cutting and inserting out-of-order footage to extend scenes.  In the actual HoH comp, one notable (and somewhat comical) aspect of this particular comp was Hay saying out loud to Production after a particularly solid Pie slam, “Can you hit me a little harder next time?  I want everything you got” - then getting knocked off the very next time she revolved back around to contact with the Pie.  The broadcast, though, was edited to make it appear Hay’s fall didn’t occur until 2 or 3 revolutions after her comment.  One can only assume Production decided the Pie wasn’t the only thing in need of extra filling.

Just two good examples of how what you see wasn’t necessarily what was got.  :)

I would add #3 - Everyone except Sam cheered for Hayleigh, and everyone was also concerned when she fell (even Sam).

[MisterBluxom]

On 8/27/2018 at 12:38 AM, green said:

But it was excellent game play on Angela's part.  Just wasn't a good look for viewers of the TV show only thinking JC actually turned Angela away from making a dumb decision.

It's very unusual to meet someone or just see someone who deserves to be punished or incarcerated or otherwise be made to suffer for terrible behavior and yet ... JC is a perfect example. If it were up to me, he would have been evicted.

Edited September 5, 2018 by MissBluxom

[mikewho]

4 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I can't think of all the ways in which he deserves to suffer for behavior that can only be described as "horrifying" or any one of a number of other adjectives. This fellow is a throwback to some kind of medieval monster who gets to walk among us - even though - he deserves to serve a "stretch" on a rack somewhere or to take the heat inside the braying bull.

I wouldn't go that far. I'd have just been satisfied he be kicked out.

[MisterBluxom]

38 minutes ago, mikewho said:

I wouldn't go that far. I'd have just been satisfied he be kicked out.

I must admit to having a "twisted" sense of humor. But I agree that getting kicked out would have been appropriate.

Edited September 5, 2018 by MissBluxom

[leocadia]

So it seems like they've been saving up the Sam crazy all season.  (Don't know why they'd have to, there's plenty to go around every week.)  Toilet-seat gate happened months ago! I think I remember that being one of the first times she really blew up in the house.

[stcroix]

I don't have time to go through all posts-- I've read that JC sniffed Tylers arm or something like that but what did he do to Hayleigh that has everyone upset?  I don't watch the live feeds and am only seeing the 'scamp' they're showing on tv.  Thank you!

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, leocadia said:

So it seems like they've been saving up the Sam crazy all season.  (Don't know why they'd have to, there's plenty to go around every week.)  Toilet-seat gate happened months ago! I think I remember that being one of the first times she really blew up in the house.

I think it happened on a Thursday, as well, on eviction night. I want to hesitantly say it was Kaitlyn's? 

1 minute ago, stcroix said:

I don't have time to go through all posts-- I've read that JC sniffed Tylers arm or something like that but what did he do to Hayleigh that has everyone upset?  I don't watch the live feeds and am only seeing the 'scamp' they're showing on tv.  Thank you!

He tied the bathroom door open while she was going to the bathroom. He claims it was payback for her scaring him when she was in the bathroom, but she wasn't using it when she scared him. She was using it when he "pranked her back". 

Also, JC did more than sniff Tyler's arm. He was caressing him and then kissed his arm (or some other part of his body) while Tyler was asleep. 

[stcroix]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think it happened on a Thursday, as well, on eviction night. I want to hesitantly say it was Kaitlyn's? 

He tied the bathroom door open while she was going to the bathroom. He claims it was payback for her scaring him when she was in the bathroom, but she wasn't using it when she scared him. She was using it when he "pranked her back". 

Also, JC did more than sniff Tyler's arm. He was caressing him and then kissed his arm (or some other part of his body) while Tyler was asleep. 

Oh gross.  As if the bathroom situation isn't impersonal enough-- I can't imagine how she felt with the door being held wide open.  I like my privacy  more than most people concerning all that and I'd be freaking out! How did he not get a penalty vote or something for that?!  Ugh.  Edited to add: Thank you Lady Calypso!

Edited September 6, 2018 by stcroix
manners :)

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, stcroix said:

Oh gross.  As if the bathroom situation isn't impersonal enough-- I can't imagine how she felt with the door being held wide open.  I like my privacy  more than most people concerning all that and I'd be freaking out! How did he not get a penalty vote or something for that?!  Ugh.

That's what we're ALL asking. Haleigh even called for Production to help, and they essentially just "warned him" while really doing nothing. Then JC complained about Haleigh complaining. 

I don't know why production isn't doing anything since JC has more than disrespected them in general. 

[green]

Back to the frivolous.  The Tyler hair thing is a week old.  And once they got it under control and combed down a little everyone in the house except JC liked it.  JC didnt like how all the women loved it so the little fart, who still thinks Tyler is some closet gay guy despite Tyler telling him a hundred times he isn't, got all huffy about it.

Here is a link to a site with the "hair spoiler" info on it period including JC's jealousy.  (No other spoilers except the hair).  People online loved the look almost 100% from what I've seen and have compared him to rockers and actors and even Thor, heh.

https://soapdirt.com/big-brother-20-spoilers-tyler-crispen-hair-makeover-what-bb20-girls-did/

[ghoulina]

That is so disturbing,on many levels. First being that JC was THAT bothered by a hairdo. But secondly that he is DEMANDING Tyler fix it and offering to "help". Gross. 

[Callaphera]

On 9/5/2018 at 9:56 PM, green said:

Here is a link to a site with the "hair spoiler" info on it period including JC's jealousy.  (No other spoilers except the hair).  People online loved the look almost 100% from what I've seen and have compared him to rockers and actors and even Thor, heh.

https://soapdirt.com/big-brother-20-spoilers-tyler-crispen-hair-makeover-what-bb20-girls-did/

People online liked it or people online liked to poke fun at it? I was in the second camp with my pre-seagull Fabio jokes. 

[green]

3 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

People online liked it or people online liked to poke fun at it? I was in the second camp with my pre-seagull Fabio jokes. 

I'd say it was at least 90% positive is not more so.

[Lady Calypso]

So, I'm watching the clip show now. I do wish they showed more new segments, as I didn't need to see a repeat of certain segments. At least expand on them more and show new footage from the segments, like the jealous Kaitlyn segment. I'm sure she had plenty of DRs to go with her jealousy edit here. It would have been a great opportunity to show some more genuinely new stuff that the casual viewers haven't seen. However, there was still more new segments than previous clip shows, so that was nice. 

[peachmangosteen]

I just wanted to bump this up since, as always, the edit is hiding a lot.

Some of Christmas' comments before she nommed Day/Bay:

If anyone has any clips of Dani's microaggressions and/or the comments that have been made about Ian, please share.

[Kromm]

Man, that's really sad. I mean what's implied is... kinda... racist trash.

[Nashville]

Kinda???

This shit’s not much more than a hop and a skip outta the trailer park.

[Lsk02]

In the episode thread it was mentioned that Day may have told Christmas about Bay’s feelings towards Tyler to campaign against Bay. As if Day would do that! It’s so frustrating to know they didn’t show the entire conversation with Christmas pretending to be on board with this backdoor thing and a girls’ alliance. That’s why Day said those things, she thought it would help her and Bay. I hate how they are being portrayed. 

[choclatechip45]

3 hours ago, Lsk02 said:

In the episode thread it was mentioned that Day may have told Christmas about Bay’s feelings towards Tyler to campaign against Bay. As if Day would do that! It’s so frustrating to know they didn’t show the entire conversation with Christmas pretending to be on board with this backdoor thing and a girls’ alliance. That’s why Day said those things, she thought it would help her and Bay. I hate how they are being portrayed. 

Day didn't realize Christmas and Tyler were close. It was a bad read on Day's part.

Edited September 10, 2020 by choclatechip45

[peachmangosteen]

I don’t think it’s a bad read per se. Xmas and Tyler have done better than the other pairs of hiding their closeness and it’s not like there’s any way the others could really know they were set up pre-game. I mean if they thought a bit more about the Josh/Kaycee connection they could figure it out but I don’t really blame them for not seeing it immediately.