S02.E06: Church In Ruins

[Milburn Stone]

I thought the music was very 70's. I rather enjoyed it.

 

+1

[Desperately Random]

Based on my Law & Order expertise, all conversations between visitors and prisoners are recorded. Therefore, Velcoro has confessed to a murder and threatened an inmate with dermabrasion on tape. Also, since Ray wants to give up custody, why is he still showing up for Task Force 2.0 black ops?

I don't think the conversation was taped. At the end of the visit, when Velcoro was leaving, you see him give the guard some money. So not only was the recording turned off but there is probably not even an entry about Velcoro's visit. I don't think Velcoro would be allowed to visit Rapist but since the guards know what Rapist did to Velcoro's wife, they were willing to let Ray in and have his say. Ray knew there would be no recording or anything else to indicate he had even been there so that's why he wasn't worried about confessing to murder or threatening to have the rapist tortured.

As for him still going along with the undercover Task Force, I think now that he is in this thing, he wants to see it through. Also, I don't see him leaving Paul and Ani right when they are in the middle of the investigation. Ray may have his faults but I don't see him quitting just because he changed his mind about Chad's custody. He agreed to do this job and he'll see it through.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Desperately Random

[shapeshifter]

...last season was hard to follow and I had to watch the episodes twice to make sure I caught everything, but it wasn't a chore to do so....

I kind of wonder if NP thought that Rust was so well-received that instead of giving us one tortured, conflicted character he gave us four...

Quite possibly. And since the viewers rewatched season 1 episodes for yellow clues, Pizzolattao might have assumed we'd be willing to do the same this season, and so buried the plot under layers that could not possibly be uncovered in one sitting.

Also, I think someone up thread said this season Pizzolatto is sharing the writing and last season did not. Maybe he really needs to write alone--at least for the plot threads.

I bet Collin Farell is pretty much the only thing holding the ratings right now. Can he get an Emmy nom if the show is panned?

[Cardie]

Several weeks ago someone hit on what is a key difference between the two seasons. Lawnmower man and his cronies were killing many, many innocent people, including children. He had to be stopped. In S2 not one victim is at all sympathetic or innocent (for all the posthumous Stan hagiography.) You want to pull our effed up cops out of harm's way and just let these vultures tear each other to bits. We might excuse all the absurdities if there seemed to be any moral urgency to the murders being solved.

[33kaitykaity]

I bet Collin Farell is pretty much the only thing holding the ratings right now. Can he get an Emmy nom if the show is panned?

He'd better.  He's keeping the female demographic age 18(?) to infinity.  He's just this wild, uncontrollable, masculine force.  That alone is worth the Emmy nom.  Lol.  

[freebie]

 

This is the ep where I decided this season of True Detective is awful, and won't be rescued by a stunning finale where all the threads are tied together.

Yup. After last week, I thought things were looking up, but I couldn't have been more wrong. The pacing on this was just so haphazard, and the choices about which scenes to showcase made. no. sense. I felt like the scenes with Ray and his kid, Frank and Stan's kid, and Ray and the rapist just went on forever, while important stuff, like the three actual investigative threads our erstwhile "heroes" are supposed to be working, felt rushed. I thought Paul's investigation of the diamonds was going somewhere, until I realized we now have even more questions than before. And Frank did make (clumsy) progress on the Irina Rulfo front (when that's actually Ray's job), right up until he got Irina killed. Then, there's Ani, who is investigating a missing person, sex parties tied to the Caspere thing, and now a crime scene where a woman was killed. And now it's all starting to come together because ... luck! Or something.

 

Bright spots:

• Random sheriff (while at a crime scene the state just handed to him gift-wrapped) and the attitude he gave the state's attorney -- the way he called her "Miss Davis" cracked me up.
• The double meaning of Ray's line to his kid after tossing him the remote -- "find Friends."
• VV's actually subtle emoting during the scene where he and his crew came upon the dead Irina. I've been critical of his acting, but he made all the right choices there.
• The breadcrumb trail that always seems to be leading to Blake. How many different plot threads is this guy connected to, and why are we only hearing about him through other characters? Blake's questioning of Mrs. Stan aka Joyce was downright creepy (and makes me wonder if he's the thin guy Irina met with, as it seems he's doing a bit of his own investigating).
• Athena and how she can call out Ani on her bullshit like nobody else. 

[Hobo.PassingThru]

I'm sure I wrote something about this earlier. What I want to believe is that like those overhead shots of the spaghetti-like freeway all the roads lead to somewhere.

 

[so far there's been ] the "neat" resolves of things[ which seem like progress is being made in the story, sort of.]

Like:

 

The Real Rapist being nabbed;

"Oh! Those diamonds! That goes back to decades before this story in a seemingly unrelated event, but it is important the diamonds were taken!";

finding the missing person at that party;

escaping from the party without a hitch (not to compare it but even Rust had to deal with his informant who found out Rust pulled the wool over his and that biker gangs' eyes) ;

having all three detectives have career changes yet still they end up working on the same case they worked on before the career changes.

This feeling that someone is going to be the parents of someone else before this is all over with--but that is just what the show seems to be setting up.

 

It could continue being one big mess. This episode didn't help me much at feeling I get what is going on. I still don't feel I know what the mystery is. Think about it: there's a lot of people who get killed. That old, fat guy Ani knifed got killed. Does he suddenly become another "mysterious" death, like the guy who "drove" off a cliff while "drunk"? Or, does it lead back to Ani or her sister and just complicate things?

 

One question though: I sort of get what Frank has his fingers in but is it clear whether or not he is a part of this sex party scene? That's where "deals are made", right? Yet, he seems to be not into the prostitution racket directly? Does that sound right?

Edited July 28, 2015 by Hobo.PassingThru

[Hobo.PassingThru]

Oh yeah. Count me in on wondering if Ray's ex- knows without a doubt that Ray is not the father but doesn't really know who the father is. I'm not saying she wasn't raped, too. But, there could be more to that. I also must admit that not once in this series have I seen someone other than the kid and thought: Redhead! I don't know why I don't notice that trait in anyone else on this show. Weird.

[DEM]

And Frank did make (clumsy) progress on the Irina Rulfo front (when that's actually Ray's job), right up until he got Irina killed.

 

OK, this is the thing I resent about Frank's very existence as a character.  Frank is actually a contagonist to the detectives. He's running his own investigation for his own selfish ends and hindering theirs.  Now, I know, a big part of the reason he is successful in his derailments is because Ray is helping him, but I guess I don't resent Ray for these misdeeds because I have Frank as an easy target. So I guess Frank is useful in that way. Still, if Frank were merely a shadowy figure who is part of the "conspiracy" background or an aspect of RAY'S story, that would make sense and I wouldn't mind. But noooo, we've had to spend countless hours every week on Frank's pain. Go away, Frank!

Edited July 28, 2015 by DEM

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Stan is the coolest person who ever lived. He is basically Tino from My So Called Life. Where would we all be today, were it not for Stan's contributions?

I bet Stan gave people rides and brought Chinese food without being asked!

Based on my Law & Order expertise, all conversations between visitors and prisoners are recorded. Therefore, Velcoro has confessed to a murder and threatened an inmate with dermabrasion on tape.

I got my law degree from the University of Law & Order too! Edited July 28, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Speaking of inaccurate portrayals of drugs, if that was supposed to be MDMA, or something similar to it, then I have to call bullshit on Ani hallucinating, and having flashbacks to a repressed molestation.

Right? When I heard the other girl tell her it was Molly, I was like oh shit....she ain't gonna get a lot of good investigative research out of this party. She's gonna end up hugging all the other girls; get entranced by some sound or light fixture and stare at it for a while; find some john who is into whatever it is that weirded out the cop she was hooking up with in the first episode; and end up confessing to one of the other hookers who in her drug haze she feels she can trust that she's a cop or something.

It's a feel-good drug, a "hug drug'" and a party drug, yet Ani has some opposite reaction to it and has scary flashbacks, yet she's able to recognize Vera and uses her suddenly clear brain (after throwing up after the drugs have clearly already taken effect....) to get her out of there by slicing her way out. (And thank goodness, Taylor Kitsch has ESP and knew exactly what door she'd be coming out of and had alerted the get-away car.) What a disappointment after seeing a messed up Rust last season somehow BELIEVABLY get into and out of that shootout and Marty waiting to come get him (in a get-away that was preplanned and explained to viewers as such). Ugh.

I keep seeing people compare that party to the sex parties in Kubrick's "Eyes Wide Shut." I know that's what the writer/director/etc likely wanted that party to be, but WHATEVER, that party WISHES it could be the strange, surrealist masked sex parties from "Eyes Wide Shut." Maybe if they would have had some better music or added in some people in masks....heck, I know the production even had some animal head masks available....

Apparently all powerful men in California only like white or light-skinned women size 6 or under (6 might be pushing it, maybe size 4 is more accurate). Seems like there might be just a couple of other options on the menu to make it a little more believable, HBO...

I just can't with Mrs. Frank (or, as someone upthread said she was captioned, "Woman"). She appears in the doorway in a silk robe and a ton of eye makeup, saunters over to Frank in slow motion and then starts caressing him like he's the Messiah. It's like the director has given her no other guidance on how to play this part besides "just pretend you are perpetually on muscle relaxers."

Ani getting Vera (is that her name?) out of the orgy house defied belief. Vera couldn't so much as keep her eyes open, but then it was no problem for her to trot down the stairs, and then full-on run once they got outside.

I'm just going to repeat again, the constant perfection that is Jordan (VV's wife)'s eye make up is suspicious. Even after waking up, or after sex, or after crying, the woman's eye make-up is always on point.

And as for a totally out-of-it Vera running to the car....wasn't she (and Ani) also in heels? Cause I'm gonna call BS on someone being so messed up that she can barely stand at the party mansion suddenly being able to book it in heels down a curving cement walkway. I was thinking surely there's going to be a scene where Ani and/or Vera either kick off their shoes or one of their heels is going to break and trip them up. But no....I'm thinking that Nic and the director have never tried running in a long formal gown and heels.

Even with the things from the episode that were problematic and for which I had to suspend disbelief, I still found the episode interesting enough (except for Frank and his wife's visit to Stan's family - what a snooze fest and waste of screen time). I think Colin Farrell and Rachel McAdams are really doing some amazing stuff with what they've been given. I hope maybe even the Emmys will recognize that, particularly in Colin Farrell's case.

Does anyone else think it could be possible that weird rapist-child molester from the commune that Ani hallucinated during the party could be Rick Springfield's doctor character? Perhaps she doesn't recognize him because maybe she didn't know his name (or he's changed it) and because he's obviously had A LOT of cosmetic surgery done to his face? (I know the guy from the hallucination doesn't look like Rick Springfield actually did in his prime and all...but who knows what the doctor character - rather than the actor - looked like before all that surgery).

I like the speculation I'm seeing here about the two kids at the jewelry store who watched their parents be murdered somehow being a part of this. Maybe as Chessani's kids or as the birdman or something else.

And yeah, when Irina said a thin, white cop who was like a "jefe" (boss), I immediately knew it was James Frain.....like others have noted, you don't cast him to be the nice, clean cut, innocent character in TV shows.

I feel like all of these plot lines, character arcs, and background players of this series would have made for an amazing -although long- book. As essentially a mini-series of only eight episodes, it comes across as many scenes were cut from the script and/or left on the editor's floor due to time constraints. The main problem, for me, is too many characters and plot lines for the characters.

Also, I need to know whose blood was found at that cabin that Ani & Paul found. What ideas do forum readers have? We know it was a woman who had gonorrhea (if I understood correctly). I assumed it was Vera, but now that we know she's alive, it must be some other sex worker, I guess. Since (I think) the show made a point to tell us the blood tested positive for gonorrhea, I read that as the show telling us it was likely a prostitue who was killed there (since you know, in TV Land, VD=prostitute). What female character could be dead? Even a minor one...I can't think of one....but she could be like Stan and unnoticeable until dead. Are we going to get yet another character introduced now as the dead chick whose blood was all over the cabin?

Sorry for the long post. This episode gave me "the rants"

Edited July 28, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Consternation]

I have no idea why Eyes Wide Shut is considered some sort of gold standard for depiction of orgy/sex party.  I question it being run by some sort of High Priest who is speaking Latin and waving censers around.  It would probably be more accurate to just picture all of your neighbors from your block/coworkers/whatever people you know and do not find all that attractive wandering around a house and randomly hooking up all over the place.  There is probably some guy in the kitchen who got hungry and is now cooking tater tots and wearing a frilly apron over his junk in the front while his hairy butt is hanging out in the back.

 

Other than the strange beauty standards applied to the women and the fact that the women are also supposed to be paid eventually apparently, this scene actually seemed more realistic to me.  Some people are doing a poor job of hooking up in random corners of rooms while others look on awkwardly, all of that.  The points that required suspension of disbelief for me were all related to how well things seemed to go for the True Ds.  Happen to overhear the right conversation and grab the papers, happen to find the missing girl, have an uncharacteristic reaction to MDMA, get all the MDMA out of your system immediately the second you barf one time, manage to escape the scene with all of this stuff after shanking a dude.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I don't mean to imply that a real-life sex party would look anything like "Eyes Wide Shut" or what we saw at True Detective's mansion party. I'm sure you're right that what we'd actually see at such a party would be much different than what either shows. There were elements of the bizarre and surreal that made the "Eyes Wide Shut" parties jarring and interesting, where as this party just seemed like the poor man's version or ripoff of that film's sex party scenes, if that makes sense.

And I have to agree that Ani's reaction to the Molly and the logistics of basically everything that happened from there to her getting out of the party with Vera at the perfect time to meet Paul in just the right spot required much more suspension of disbelief than just the way the party was portrayed.

Edited July 28, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[penelope79]

I don't mean to imply that a real-life sex party would look anything like "Eyes Wide Shut" or what we saw at True Detective's mansion party. I'm sure you're right that what we'd actually see at such a party would be much different than what either shows. There were elements of the bizarre and surreal that made the "Eyes Wide Shut" parties jarring and interesting, where as this party just seemed like the poor man's version or ripoff of that film's sex party scenes, if that makes sense.

 

Maybe they were going more for a Bunga-Bunga kind of sex party, rather than Eyes Wide Shut. And by the way, re: hookers all looking like models, rumor has it (yeah, who am I kidding? :D) that, for instance, Silvio B. had Nicole Minetti select the girls even though the other men at these parties probably all had different tastes. Of course, girls were all models look-alike because that's how he liked them (and if you google Nicole Minetti, you clearly see that she looks like she's been a product of Rick Springfield's clinic :D ), even though those specifically selected for SB had to be young (apparently, he considered actress Manuela Arcuri "too old" to be invited: for the record, she's born on 1977). /OT

[shapeshifter]

Several weeks ago someone hit on what is a key difference between the two seasons. Lawnmower man and his cronies were killing many, many innocent people, including children. He had to be stopped. In S2 not one victim is at all sympathetic or innocent (for all the posthumous Stan hagiography.) You want to pull our effed up cops out of harm's way and just let these vultures tear each other to bits. We might excuse all the absurdities if there seemed to be any moral urgency to the murders being solved.

According to a throwaway line in this episode, it seems Frank is behind toxic dumping on good land to lower the price so he (and his cronies) can buy it cheap and then sell it back to the state at a high price for the transportation corridor. This could make him a pretty Big Bad.

Also, several posts have mentioned the demographics of the drugged sex party girls. Maybe slim is a not-very-good attempt to indicate many are just barely post-pubescent? Add that to those we've been shown to be held against their will and murdered, and we have another Big Bad sex trafficker equal to Lawn Mower Man although more corporate. (I would consider Ani's father "more corporate" if he turns out to be a ring leader.)

[myname2use4now]

Ani's flashback:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/27/07/2ADEBA0400000578-0-image-m-121_1437977699390.jpg

Bob:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1y5cbpL4XrQ/Tl6mgM7ddBI/AAAAAAAADb4/ok5qs86BKdM/s1600/FWWM+Bob+emerges.jpg

I thought of Bob when I first saw Ani's molester as well. I think Nick is borrowing heavily from David Lynch this season.

[paigow]

 I was thinking surely there's going to be a scene where Ani and/or Vera either kick off their shoes...

Ani lost her shoes while being choked by the bouncer...not sure if Vera lost her shoes en route to the car.

[paigow]

Also, I need to know whose blood was found at that cabin that Ani & Paul found. What ideas do forum readers have?

Snuff film fantasy for perverted old guys with money...Maybe Caspere taped an earlier version

[teddysmom]

Based on my Law & Order expertise, all conversations between visitors and prisoners are recorded. Therefore, Velcoro has confessed to a murder and threatened an inmate with dermabrasion on tape. Also, since Ray wants to give up custody, why is he still showing up for Task Force 2.0 black ops?

 

This is part of NP's MO - Marty went into the jail cell of the two kids who were having sex with his daughter and beat the shit out of them.  I'm sure the cameras were turned off for that encounter. 

 

I think Ray is keeping his commitment to the case and Ani & Paul. 

 

And I have to agree that Ani's reaction to the Molly and the logistics of basically everything that happened from there to her getting out of the party with Vera at the perfect time to meet Paul in just the right spot required much more suspension of disbelief than just the way the party was portrayed.

 

Maybe this is the "Reefer Madness" version of Molly.  You go crazy and hallucinate and kill a couple people, puke, then the organization/time management feature of Molly kicks in and you find your missing girl, hook up with your team and high tail it out of there. 

[terrymct]

It is as if this season of TD wants to rely on background music and (brilliant) cinematography to paper over some sketchy plot elements, uneven acting, and (occasionally turgid) dialogue and make it deep and profound. 

 

In order to paper over some sketchy plot elements, there has to actually be a plot.  I have seen evidence of such this season.  It's as if the producers walked into a intro to screenwriting class, went over some basic characters with the students, then had the students each sequentially and independently write a scene, passing it from one to another.

[Blakeston]

My take on the hair issue is that for years, Ray was haunted by how little Chad looked like him, and assumed (on some level) that the rapist was the biological father.

Then it turns out the rapist resembles Ray, and doesn't look like Chad any more than Ray does. Which gets Ray's hopes up that Chad might be his biological son after all.

And now Ray is more desperate than ever to convince his ex not to test Chad's DNA. I'm sure that part of it is that he doesn't want Chad knowing about his possible origins. But I think he also wants to shield himself from knowing - because he'd rather just assume that he's the bio dad.

His stance is now, "What matters is that he's my son and I'm his father."

Edited July 28, 2015 by Blakeston

[BaseOps]

I bet Collin Farell is pretty much the only thing holding the ratings right now. Can he get an Emmy nom if the show is panned?

 

I'm betting on it. I wonder if they're going to shoot for a Drama Series nomination again though rather than Limited Series (they'd have a lot better luck in the limited series category, for sure). I think McAdam and Farrell both deserve nominations, though between the backlash against the season so far + the fact that the next round of Emmy nominations are a year away, it's entirely possible that S2 will be forgotten / shut out. 

[LilaFowler]

I am pretty sure that I read somewhere that TD will be in Miniseries next year, not Drama.  I think Season 1 should have been in that category as well and believe that it would have won at least two more awards if it had. 

[NurseGiGi]

Someone upthread said they're coming to the forums first before watching the episode and that's what I'm doing, too.  It keeps me from having to watch again to sort things out and everyone here seems to pick up on lots of details that I never notice because I'm just not paying close enough attention.  And I completely missed the part about the murder victim having gonorrhea.

 

VV saying "Did your Dad teach you that?" gave me the giggles.  

[DEM]

Because of the Emmy rule changes, True Detective is by definition a Limited Series (programs of two or more episodes with a total running time of at least 150 program minutes that tell a complete, non-recurring story, and do not have an ongoing storyline and/or main characters in subsequent seasons).  The producers would have to petition to be a Drama Series, and I can't see how they'd prevail.

Edited July 28, 2015 by DEM

[Jextella]

I'm with Chad - is Friends on? Anything would be better than this. 

 

I have a question about Pizzolato.  Is he writing every episode by himself? No staff to break an episode and make sure everything makes sense?  

 

Reason I ask is I've been rewatching Seasons 4-6 of Breaking Bad, and one thing I know about Vince Gilligan from listening to every Inside Breaking Bad podcast is that he and the writers relied heavily on each other.  Even if one person wrote an episode, the entire staff and Vince would sit down and go thru each scene, making sure that something was, at least in the BB world, feasible, make sure details were thought through, not introduce something that was never followed up with ie, Chekhov's Gun rule.   Not to say that occasionally I didn't have to go back and rewatch an episode because I didn't catch something key to the next episode, but I do not recall Breaking Bad needing this much thought.   I can take complicated plots, but True Detective needs a Venn Diagram, and somebody standing next to the tv with a pointer and the remote to pause a scene so we can discuss what just happened. 

 

Maybe that's a lot of the problem with this season of True Detective, if Pizzolato is writing every episode by himself, there's no one to say, this makes no sense whatsoever, this dialogue is just first year creative writing student bad, etc. 

 

Just a thought.....

 

I had the same thoughts after Ep1.   Give me Vince G any day of the week over this.  In fact, give me Veena Sud from The Killing (Season 3, anyway) over Nic P.  I'm so lost I'm not sure I care much about what happens.  Maybe that's a good thing. Then I won't get so upset when Nic delivers the worst ending in TV history (next to Season 1 which would be hard to top).  The guy is missing a GREAT BIG BEAT in all this.  Maybe two.  Perhaps he can package something sensical in its entirety when he finds what he's missing, but for today, he's still got most of us making comments/asking questions like these:

 

 

Things this episode taught me:

 

• Being closeted gives you super-sensitive night vision.

   

• Among dozens of wealthy sex-seeking men, there's not even one who wants a man-whore, even for a cuckold fantasy or a spicy three-way (Doesn't Pizzolatto know it's not gay if it's a three-way?).

   

• Stan, oh Stan, we hardly knew ye.  No, seriously, who the fuck were you?  

 

 

Hysterical! 

Edited July 28, 2015 by Jextella

[Ronin Jackson]

I'm usually okay with not having all details of a story explained to me as it is happening. I admit I thought the criticisms after the first episode seemed a little jumpy, I had no expectation of knowing exactly what was going on at that point. But with two episodes left, perhaps the detractors after the first episode were picking up on something. I'm fairly lost and I'm not sure if it's bad plotting or just details I'm missing.

 

Take the central driving force behind this last episode... the infiltration of the party. I'm missing the logic or motivation behind it. I get that Caspere had likely blackmailed someone at these parties which is thought to have been the central motivation for the murder. So why should the lead investigator for several months go in disguised as a prostitute? That did help them learn the location of the party, and they snagged those papers, but there had to have been safer ways to get that. Ani's pursuit of the missing woman was completely unrelated to this case right, or at least it started that way. Did she have some expectation of finding her there? Was that part of the mission here?

 

Honestly though, the only storyline I feel any investment in is Ray's story with his son, and I credit that mostly to CF's acting. I gotta admit I thought the stunt at the end of the second episode was cheap and initially thought it would have been a good shock to have him killed off, but he remains the strong point of the season so ultimately, it would have been better not to have the cheap stunt in the first place.

[Cardie]

shapeshifter, I didn't mean that there weren't any genuine Big Bads here, rather that hardly anyone isn't a Bad of some size or other. People harmed by the toxic waste dumping are not personified here. The two murder victims are both criminals. The overall corruption is so entrenched that no TDs can root them out. At least in S1 there was a heinous serial rapist, torturer and killer that Rust and Marty stopped. The targeted violence here had all been committed against ver unsympathetic characters. Perhaps the victim from the Buzzard retreat will turn out to deserve our sympathy but we don't yet know who she is with 2 episodes to go.

 

The types of women accepted for the sex parties adhere to what Hollywood casting directors believe necessary for sexual attractiveness. Whatever men like in real life, Hollywood perpetuates the idea that only light-skinned, thin, young women are f***able.

[sjohnson]

The hooker who framed her pimp for the cop wasn't sympathetic, but I felt sorry for her murder anyway. And I totally empathized with Frank's shock. Despite her being by all standards, conventional and criminal, a detestable person I agreed there was something wrong with murdering her. I even feel uneasy about Ani slaughtering the goon instead of telling him she was just taking her buddy out for a break to get her head clear and back into the game, that she wanted to kill a guy in revenge for the childhood rape. I guess I'm not watching the show right.

[polyhymnia]

Based on my Law & Order expertise, all conversations between visitors and prisoners are recorded. Therefore, Velcoro has confessed to a murder and threatened an inmate with dermabrasion on tape. Also, since Ray wants to give up custody, why is he still showing up for Task Force 2.0 black ops?

 

That bothered me as well.  Usually I would say the ridiculous of a detective confessing to various crimes in the jailhouse would "take me out of an episode" but I can't say that the episode drew me in so . . .

 

Nothing gold can stay.  Thank you for the stay golden, Ponyboy upthread because that whole scene already had me rolling my eyes even before the kid was informed that he was golden.

 

The AG that announced for governor was definitely at the party.  My small beef was that obviously some of the rich guys have to know that they were already filmed for blackmail, so why would they continue to roll the dice with these large public orgies?  Shouldn't they be trying to go a little smaller scale?

[shapeshifter]

I even feel uneasy about Ani slaughtering the goon instead of telling him she was just taking her buddy out for a break to get her head clear and back into the game, that she wanted to kill a guy in revenge for the childhood rape. I guess I'm not watching the show right.

Even though Ani had been practicing her knife work prior to going undercover at the party, I'd be okay with blaming the guy's murder on whomever gave her the drugs.

[BaseOps]

I had the same thoughts after Ep1.   Give me Vince G any day of the week over this.  In fact, give me Veena Sud from The Killing (Season 3, anyway) over Nic P.  I'm so lost I'm not sure I care much about what happens.  Maybe that's a good thing. Then I won't get so upset when Nic delivers the worst ending in TV history (next to Season 1 which would be hard to top).  The guy is missing a GREAT BIG BEAT in all this.  Maybe two.  

 

Did you see Vince Gilligan's follow-up to Breaking Bad? Battle Creek makes Season 2 of TD look like The Sopranos or Mad Men. It was some of the worst written TV I've ever seen. 

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

Take the central driving force behind this last episode... the infiltration of the party.

That is something I can pick apart, too.

While none of us probably want typical motivations or developments, there is a typical set up for the kind of story or plot point involving multiple characters in a small team. Not that it needs to go similarly, typically infiltrating the party by one person would have led to doors opening for the others. So, say, Ani gets in, she'd locate a key person or a literal door or a key or get some information which would lead to the other detectives gaining access to that information that Paul got.

 

Since it played out with two motivations: infiltrating and whatever Paul did, it didn't seem connected.

 

That said, I really think the thing with Ani is she wanted to see first hand what those parties are like. That's why she went in instead of another person.

 

Hate to compare it but it was like when Rust Cohle handled his "mission" while Marty manned the getaway car. But, with the extra angle of retrieving some evidence it makes Ani not even having a wire or a camera to gather proof of the party seem like missing an opportunity. Rust probably knew his mission could go South (he made a kid hide in the bathroom for his safety). Ani could not have been expecting anyone she saw or the woman she found so her great escape shouldn't have been difficult but it quickly became that way. The thing about that orgy is most were occupied and probably didn't get flustered at noticing rough play or a pursuit.

 

Bottom line for me in this part: it could have played out differently and made more sense by allowing the accomplishments to be readily obvious. Sure, getting a missing person is huge and the documents are probably big. But, now the documents are missing and the woman is missing and someone's dead. People in charge of that call girl/business clatch will notice those things and I guess the payoff is people won't be happy?

[iMonrey]

 

 

That score at the end reminded me of something out of an 80s fantasy film.

The music reminded me of a bad Hitchcock rip off.

 

I was thinking Hitchcock as well. It sounded very 1940s noir-ish which is what I'm sure they were going for. But man, was it distracting and out of place.

 

I'm as baffled as anyone else about the rapist guy looking nothing like Chad. In the end I don't think we're ever going to get any explanation about the kid's physical appearance. I just think they tried to hire someone who looked suitably different from Colin Farrell and didn't put much thought into it beyond that.

 

What the hell is Molly and why does it keep popping up in TV shows and movies? I'm so out of the loop. Yeah yeah, I know, ecstasy, whatever. But they showed someone who looked like they were spraying breath freshener into Ani's mouth rather than her taking a pill. Can it really be ingested that way? Her "drug trip" looked like every cliched drug trip they've ever filmed.

 

I don't really understand what the blue diamonds have to do with any of this.

[Ronin Jackson]

Did you see Vince Gilligan's follow-up to Breaking Bad? Battle Creek makes Season 2 of TD look like The Sopranos or Mad Men. It was some of the worst written TV I've ever seen.

His follow up to "Breaking Bad" is called "Better Call Saul". His involvement with "Battle Creek" started and ended with him selling a pilot script to CBS several years before BB. Even the pilot script was rewritten by David Shore, who is the correct target of your criticism of that particular show.

[represent]

 

Ani being molested (or worse) at the camp doesn't have to be a storyline in itself, could just be character background that goes a long way to explaining her feelings towards her father and the camp.

Exactly, it just answers her sister's question when she said to Ani that she doesn't understand why Ani works so hard to be alone. The answer is clear to me, but not to her sister because I don't think the she nor the father knows what happened to her on that commune. 

[paigow]

Ani's pursuit of the missing woman was completely unrelated to this case right...

 Wrong. Ani had no idea that Vera would be at the orgy. However, she [Vera] is an important witness that can corroborate the existence of blackmail orgies. She mailed incriminating photos to her sister and her last phone call was within a mile of the murder shed.

[Jextella]

His follow up to "Breaking Bad" is called "Better Call Saul". His involvement with "Battle Creek" started and ended with him selling a pilot script to CBS several years before BB. Even the pilot script was rewritten by David Shore, who is the correct target of your criticism of that particular show.

 

Whew!  I would have been sorely disappointed.  Better Call Saul had a very slow start but it ramped up.  I liked it and look forward to S2.  Maybe here-in lies the difference...in Nic P's defense, he's only got 8 episodes.  He has to deliver a powerful punch in a short amount of time. Series that are continuous may have more breathing room which might make it a bit easier to work with?  What the hell do I know, though.

 

Exactly, it just answers her sister's question when she said to Ani that she doesn't understand why Ani works so hard to be alone. The answer is clear to me, but not to her sister because I don't think the she nor the father knows what happened to her on that commune. 

 

When Ani visited Pitlor, she said there were five kids who grew up in commune.  2 committed suicide, 2 were in jail, and the 5th became a detective. Her sister is none of the above. 

 

Either a gaffe on the part of the writer or it means something else.

[paigow]

The hooker who framed her pimp for the cop wasn't sympathetic, but I felt sorry for her murder anyway. And I totally empathized with Frank's shock. Despite her being by all standards, conventional and criminal, a detestable person I agreed there was something wrong with murdering her.

Her death made Frank AND the audience angry because she was ready to provide major exposition.

[WaltersHair]

Did that technician really say the blood in the shack was female and there were 'dead gonorrheal bacteriophage present?

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

2 were in jail

Maybe I took that the wrong way but I thought she meant her sister and someone else ended up in jail. I didn't take it as they are still there. But, tense does matter so maybe two people she knows are still in jail.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Hobo.PassingThru

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

I Am Fran / Sarah D. Bunting is not a crackpot. She just thinks Caitlyn Jenner has everything it takes -- starting with much-needed goodwill -- to take over as True Detective's head baddie in charge.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Did that technician really say the blood in the shack was female and there were 'dead gonorrheal bacteriophage present?

That's what I heard (and saw, as I watch with closed captions).

It was strange to me because it seemed like it looked like the crime scene was still being processed. Seems like you'd need to take blood samples back to the lab or send them off to a lab to get that kind of info about the blood, not something a crime scene investigator would be able to tell at the scene.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I was happily surprised to see that neither of Chad's possible fathers have red hair, mainly because red hair usually skips a generation in my family. People often assume that redheaded kid = at least one redheaded parent, but that most definitely isn't the case. A good redhead friend of mine has brunette, Irish-American parents (coloring similar to Colin Farrell's) and while she was growing up, kids (and adults!) constantly asked her if she was adopted or accused her parents of not telling her she was adopted because she was a redhead and her parents are not. (Basically - genetics are hard to understand & people are rude idiots.)

From the first episode, it didn't even cross my mind that one of the indicators that Chad may not be Velcoro's son is the son's redhair because the actor playing Velcoro is Irish. I know Velcoro isn't an Irish last name, but if the part was written specifically for CF, the character might be Irish-American on his mom's side or something. (And of course it isn't only the Irish who carry the redhead gene.) Also, Colin Farrell's real-life eldest son James IS a REDHEAD. (You can see a picture of him here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2318648/Colin-Farrells-disabled-son-taught-lothario-meaning-true-love.html). Model Kim Bordenave is the mom of James, and she doesn't have redhair either (she's a brunette). So perhaps I never thought it was strange that a character CF played possibly had a red haired child with a brunette woman.

Edited July 28, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[paigow]

Seems like you'd need to take blood samples back to the lab or send them off to a lab to get that kind of info about the blood...

With the proper "skillset", bacteriophages become visible to the naked eye. (I didn't want to make another strident post)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ani being molested (or worse) at the camp doesn't have to be a storyline in itself, could just be character background that goes a long way to explaining her feelings towards her father and the camp.

Exactly, it just answers her sister's question when she said to Ani that she doesn't understand why Ani works so hard to be alone. The answer is clear to me, but not to her sister because I don't think the she nor the father knows what happened to her on that commune.

When Ani said that of the five kids from the commune, two committed suicide and two were in jail, it made me think that all five of the kids had been molested (meaning her sister knows) and that at the very least some of the adults (including her father) knew about it. Maybe her dad didn't know about it until after the fact but considering his laissez faire attitude, I wouldn't be surprised if he knew about it at the time. Either way, it would definitely explain her resentment of her father and his camp. Edited July 28, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Ronin Jackson]

 Wrong. Ani had no idea that Vera would be at the orgy. However, she [Vera] is an important witness that can corroborate the existence of blackmail orgies. She mailed incriminating photos to her sister and her last phone call was within a mile of the murder shed.

 

Well kudos to you for setting me straight! However, she didn't come to investigating Vera's disappearance through investigating the case. She was serving an eviction notice to Vera's sister, and, for reasons that aren't entirely clear to me, she decided to look into the disappearance (perhaps because one of the last places she's been seen happened to be Ani's father's retreat). So the connection to the case seems a matter of serendipity (as was the connection to the father's retreat... and the sister's knowledge of how to get in). It is all the more serendipitous that Vera happened to be at this orgy party, and this was a major coup of the operation even if that wasn't the intended goal, which rolls back to my initial source of confusion: what was the original, intended goal of the operation? I'm sure Vera and the papers absconded with will turn out to be vital, but did they stumble ass backwards into these clues? Is there something more connecting all these things than a hodge podge of coincidences? Please feel free to set me straight on these points...

Edited July 28, 2015 by Ronin Jackson

[Cardie]

The parties link a lot of different players in the wider corruption, and specifically Caspere; possession of the hard drive seems to be driving the actions of many baddies. So they wanted a look at exactly who was involved in them.

[WaltersHair]

 

With the proper "skillset", bacteriophages become visible to the naked eye.

can you post a photo of that? something that can been seen with the naked eye in the field?

I'm in the medical field and have never heard this. I used to do chocolate agar for gonorrhea, but requires incubation and doesn't use blood.

[MrWhyt]

Well kudos to you for setting me straight! However, she didn't come to investigating Vera's disappearance through investigating the case. She was serving an eviction notice to Vera's sister, and, for reasons that aren't entirely clear to me, she decided to look into the disappearance (perhaps because one of the last places she's been seen happened to be Ani's father's retreat). So the connection to the case seems a matter of serendipity (as was the connection to the father's retreat... and the sister's knowledge of how to get in). It is all the more serendipitous that Vera happened to be at this orgy party, and this was a major coup of the operation even if that wasn't the intended goal, which rolls back to my initial source of confusion: what was the original, intended goal of the operation? I'm sure Vera and the papers absconded with will turn out to be vital, but did they stumble ass backwards into these clues? Is there something more connecting all these things than a hodge podge of coincidences? Please feel free to set me straight on these points...

It seemed to me that she felt that serving eviction notices was a waste of her time and she looked into the missing girl because it was an actual case.