A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[Cloud9Shopper]

15 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

Inflated is an understatement. LI counts everytime someone clicks the link, even if they click it close out, click it again, lather, rinse, repeat.

This job had Easy Apply to so everyone who spams jobs with their same resume is probably applying too. (I’ve seen so many people say they will only apply to jobs that have an Easy Apply button.) 

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Inflated is an understatement. LI counts everytime someone clicks the link, even if they click it close out, click it again, lather, rinse, repeat.

I can't speak to how LI counts it, but it's pretty common for a single job to have hundreds of unique applications, especially if it's an entry-level job. I've had recruiters take down job postings from LI before the job was filled because we had more applications than we were able to review.

[Moose135]

3 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

This job had Easy Apply to so everyone who spams jobs with their same resume is probably applying too.

When I was looking for work (18 months ago) I had decent success using LinkedIn for finding appropriate listings. I would usually skip the Easy Apply thing, though, and go directly to the company's website and apply on their employment page. It probably cuts down on some of the noise.

[theredhead77]

29 minutes ago, Moose135 said:

When I was looking for work (18 months ago) I had decent success using LinkedIn for finding appropriate listings. I would usually skip the Easy Apply thing, though, and go directly to the company's website and apply on their employment page. It probably cuts down on some of the noise.

That's what I did. They can track how I find them by the option I selected. I only used LI to apply if the company didn't have a way to do it on their page. I had a grand total of zero response from LI applications.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I think I will end up applying for the job I saw after all. Worst they can say is no, right? 

As far as my current job, I really don’t think I can be happy in a place that restricts time off like this in the long term. How am I ever supposed to go to the doctor if days  are constantly blocked off? 

I ended up requesting a different day off next month just so I can get a breather. That day was open thankfully. I hope I get it. 

[chocolatine]

33 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I think I will end up applying for the job I saw after all. Worst they can say is no, right?

You should apply for every available job that fits your criteria. It's a numbers game.

[theredhead77]

57 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I think I will end up applying for the job I saw after all. Worst they can say is no, right? 

Yep!

22 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

You should apply for every available job that fits your criteria. It's a numbers game.

100% a numbers game. Sometimes a little networking. It took 3 years and over 200 applications before I got an offer. 

[emma675]

Well, I'm resigning from my job on Tuesday. I've tried for a year to do the work of 3 people, but I've finally hit my limit. I have a few interviews lined up but I think I'm going to take some time off to decompress and figure out what I want to do next. My parents aren't in great health so I'd like to be able to spend more time with them and I've been working continuously since high school. My frugality (it's finally paying off, lol) and investing a small inheritance I got from my grandparents years ago has given me a nest egg to live off of, but I think I will get bored really quickly. I've never not worked full time!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well the trial I was so excited about working on? As it would have been my first? Now I just want to come home and get back to my other matters. Why? Because I told my managers and they KNEW, I have NO TRIAL EXPERIENCE, and I would be going to help to gain the experience. The experienced paralegal was to guide me and explain what needs doing and how to do it (the technology stuff). She’s been doing nothing but gaslighting me and micromanaging me since we got to the town where trial will start next Tuesday.

Now I’m supposed to know what to do when I don’t know what to do. Luckily for co-counsel’s para-who has been giving me tips about telling me what I should do and the logistics and what she does. Which has been helpful.

I’ve never worked with this Senior Para, and after the case is done (I’m PRAYING they settle), never going to work with her again. She makes me feel like incompetent idiot who doesn’t know anything. And she was nice and helpful BEFORE we got here and were putting materials together for trial prep.

I am NOT a moron. She failed to apprise me of how she does things and also fucked up in giving me the entire list of docs to put together and snidely told me she took “the hit” for me. And that I need to own my mistakes. FIRST, when I make a mistake due to my not listening or whatever, I do OWN it. I am NOT going to take the blame for her mistake in failing to send me ALL the pertinent materials. UGH. Just KILL ME NOW.

Edited May 27, 2023 by GHScorpiosRule

[magicdog]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I’ve never worked with this Senior Para, and after the case is done (I’m PRAYING they settle), never going to work with her again. She makes me feel like incompetent idiot who doesn’t know anything. And she was nice and helpful BEFORE we got here and were putting materials together for trial prep.

I am NOT a moron. She failed to apprise me of how she does things and also fucked up in giving me the entire list of docs to put together and snidely told me she took “the hit” for me. And that I need to own my mistakes. FIRST, when I make a mistake due to my not listening or whatever, I do OWN it. I am NOT going to take the blame for her mistake in failing to send me ALL the pertinent materials. UGH. Just KILL ME NOW.

SEND THE POOP!!

Meanwhile in my world....

Been spending this month on sweeps, so that means a lot of long packages on things kinda relevant to our viewers.  Our hockey team, the Golden Knights are in the playoffs and we might end up with a ton of editing if we win the next game against Dallas.  Not happy about that since this means every other sot has to be changed, and there will be at least 2 on the fly natpackages we have to make (with copyright free music of course!) using various clips strung together and made to sound celebratory and majestic.  Considering all the editing we already have to do, it's a pain in the butt.

Meanwhile, Bitcheroo's accomplice, "L' is trying to get into Heaven now.  She saw me gingerly going down the employee stairs (I'm recovering from an injury so I literally have to take them one step at a time - and there is no railing!) and offered to help me down by taking my hand as I went down.  I allowed it, but I know what she's planning - making me think I could trust her again, and then slam me when it counts.  Just like before.

I did celebrate my birthday this week!  I informed my edit partner that for the duration of the shift I would be referred to as "Your Majesty". He obliged.  ;o)

 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Made it through the rest of my work week and now done until Tuesday. I’m going to cheer myself up by ordering takeout from a favorite pizza place (or Chinese as a backup if the pizza wait is too long) and going for ice cream after dinner.

I still have a goal of getting out of the call center by the end of the year and I’m trying to rethink of how much of a pay cut I’d be fine with. I can’t make $15 an hour and survive but I’m sure I could find a happy medium between that and my current pay. 

 

[Blergh]

OK, this happened some weeks ago but I still feel the need to vent:

Long-short is that, due to parking being somewhat hens' teeth scarce, I need to get to my workplace over an hour before my shift. Also, due to the fact that my position requires constant attention to detail and juggling some chainsaws, I do my best to reserve my calls of nature to before the shift. Skipping the details, there are days when said calls wind up becoming quite extended and, if at all possible, I'd prefer to answer them maskless in one of the five individual facilities instead  being masked within one of the communal ones in my work area.

So what happened X weeks ago? Someone evidently decided that they wanted to use the individual facility I was already making use of and, after concluding it was in use, rather than seek out one of the other four individual facilities or the communal one, decided to loudly  rant about my answering nature's call within to someone else on their Smartphone!

Really?! Yep, they expected me to get guilt-tripped and throw a  pity party for them due to broadcasting their call instead of trying to accept if not like that I was still in the middle of making my own call! I'm wondering if I should have shouted loudly 'There are FOUR OTHER individual bathrooms you could have long since sought out and could be using instead of wasting your caller's time as well as your own- to say nothing about trying to win a dumb . . hissing contest rather than actually have tended to nature's call!'

I almost felt sorry for that individual's caller but for the fact that said caller didn't seem to consider to do anything but staying  the ranter's  . ..witch pot instead of h suggesting to the ranter to seek out  an alternative instead of literally holding out for their ideal spot!

What's done is long since done but I'm wondering if anyone else here might have some suggestions about any possible future incidents like that?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Me today:

 

 

I mean, she comes over to my desk, tells me to pull up such and such and print them, but apparently my screen is too small for her to read, so we go over to her desk, and she tells me to print x, but doesn't tell me which category they're for. But she's blanking on the newest one we just made. So when I ask where they go, she gives me that look, and says, "we had this conversation. you HAVE to be on top of this. I can't be telling you or reminding you what goes where during trial."

Does she think I'm a mind reader? She's the one who got the assignment, and dumped it on me, and I don't know what was asked of her and where to put them. Yet it's perfectly fine that she's blanking on the name of the new category. Only she can get confused or not remember. But I have to recall and know every damn thing.

And she's like you have to be "quickquickquick" and can't be "slow" in putting the binders together. 

And she is apparently indispensable. She had to go out to inspect documents at opposing counsel, and now half hour later, emails me asking if anyone has asked me to do anything else? Or asked for her. I was more than happy to tell her no. To both.

And she's harping on me about a redaction project that one of the partners told her to finish last week. Which she dumped on me, and is acting as if the original task was given to me.

I don't understand how she is so highly regarded.

Oh yes, I don't know if I mentioned she broke her knuckle last week when she fell down/tripped over the lip of a manhole. And she's been telling all and sundry, she can't shake their hands because she broke it and how she broke it. I can hear her on the phone, repeating the story, over and over and over again, and yet she's dumping all these tasks on me.

She has a lot of experience, but I'm having issues with her attitude toward me. As if I'm some dunce, who works at a snail's pace. When I know what the job is, and what I need to do, I can do it. With her, I only get half-assed explanations, then talked down to when I get confused.

I'm a non-confrontational person. And right now, we're on the eve of trial, and will memorize as much as I can regarding locations of materials, and hope for the best. And am praying every night that I don't fuck it up.

Edited May 27, 2023 by GHScorpiosRule

[magicdog]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

What's done is long since done but I'm wondering if anyone else here might have some suggestions about any possible future incidents like that?

Since she is so hung up on bodily functions, I say SEND THE POOP!

She'll never guess who sent it!  Seriously that a was bad case of decorum.  She deserves the poop for this!!

[Cloud9Shopper]

I decided the day I have that doctor’s appointment I’m just going to tell work the morning of that I have to leave early. Because technically Friday was also blocked to new requests and a couple of people said they were signing off early anyway. (Normally this would not be something I know about but we have an attendance email and an email goes out every day with who’s out of the office and who’s leaving early, and it gets updated if someone who was in ends up leaving due to an emergency or whatever.) I’m not rescheduling the appointment again and they’ll have to cope without me for the last hour or two of my shift.

There is a day trip that I would like to take later this summer so I have to cross my fingers that the day off is available and I can book the trip. 

In the meantime, I will keep looking for other jobs and doing the minimum at this job that’s required to keep the customers and management happy. I’ll let the “coaching” and the stats talk go in one ear and out the other. I’ll save for the self-improvement for an actual career job. 

 

[ginger90]

The discussion about time off as a new hire has me wondering about policies. Don’t companies have paid time off after x amount of time on a job?

So, @Cloud9Shopper , is the time you’re requesting currently unpaid time? Not meaning to be nosy, just curious.

[theredhead77]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

The discussion about time off as a new hire has me wondering about policies. Don’t companies have paid time off after x amount of time on a job?

In the States, time off is a perk, not required by law. Each company can decide how much they want to offer, how long people have to use it, and the requirements around it.

I think the only thing dictated by state laws is carry-over and payout upon termination. When I worked in CA I was able to roll over up to a certain amount of time (based on tenure). I was shocked when I moved to GA, working for the same company, and was only allowed to roll over 40 hours. During the pandemic, they forced us to use all our time off ("use it or lose it"), and eliminated rollover altogether, while people working in CA could still rollover. Have I mentioned how much GA sucks? So glad I moved. My new company in NV started off with 15 PTO days, we can roll over up to a certain amount before we stop accruing. 

Not sure how it varies by state, but at every company I've worked for stand-alone "sick time" does not have to be paid out while "vacation time" does. Companies that offer "unlimited PTO" don't have to pay out anything upon termination though last I heard, CA is trying to fight that.

 

[Browncoat]

I work for the state, and we accrue annual leave based on how long we've worked (from 8 hours per month up to 18 hours per month).  A certain amount will roll over, and a slightly higher amount will be paid out when you leave employment.  Sick leave is given in a lump sum at the beginning of the calendar year, with a maximum of 80 hours per year.  It does not roll over.  We also get up to a week of "Family Personal" time per year, which does not roll over.  That was meant to cover employees if they have an emergency before annual leave accumulates.

[GHScorpiosRule]

This is the only place I can vent because my time is not my own, meaning I can't use my phone to call, or even have the time right now, to text my friends, so please bear with me.

I just have a few things to say:

• The overtime for this trial work is SO NOT WORTH IT.
• My manager(s) should have gone with sending a paralegal who actually has trial experience to assist the senior paralegal running this trial
• I'm going to do my damndest not to make any mistakes (as she informed me today, going forward, I can't make ANY mistakes; I have to be perfect)
  • Then she clarifies that it's because of the judge running this case and his crazy expectations, otherwise, it wouldn't be this "ugly" as it will get.
• I don't believe her. There was ample time for her to prepare me for this, and she's treating me like someone who's had trial experience, but just has corn/shit for brains, and "too slow" to get things done.

First, in my office, we actually have vendors to put these binders together, or we use outside vendors. No such thing here where the case is being held, and the office is super, super small.

I'm making a list of what I'll be telling my managers at the first chance I get. Because if this was told to me before I got started, I would have begged off, explaining I didn't have the experience Senior Paralegal was looking for. In essence, I'm like an entry level, and this case needs someone with experience. What little experience I have is very old tech-where all the technology that is out there now, wasn't there then. Also, so much waste and inefficient way to do things the way she does.

Trial starts Tuesday. Still hoping for a settlement before it ends. I want OUT OF HERE.

 

 

[EtheltoTillie]

That's so awful, @GHScorpiosRule  I'm sure you would do so well with the right set up.  I just hate people like that.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, EtheltoTillie said:

That's so awful, @GHScorpiosRule  I'm sure you would do so well with the right set up.  I just hate people like that.

Thanks. I know if this case was handled by the other case managers and trial specialists I've worked with in the past on other matters, I'd be posting here, telling y'all how great an experience I was having. 

I just need to get through the next two weeks without anymore mishaps.

The most aggravating thing is how paternalistic? she treats me. Tells me when to go eat lunch, looks over my shoulders and tells me how to print a fucking document, when I know how to fucking print. And tells me on one hand, there's a learning curve, and two days later, "I don't have time to tell you how to do x and y, you have to figure it out yourself." Like, what???

Oh, but when she makes mistakes, I'm supposed to brush it off when she says: "my bad" because she has made several mistakes.

[Blergh]

11 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

This is the only place I can vent because my time is not my own, meaning I can't use my phone to call, or even have the time right now, to text my friends, so please bear with me.

I just have a few things to say:

• The overtime for this trial work is SO NOT WORTH IT.
• My manager(s) should have gone with sending a paralegal who actually has trial experience to assist the senior paralegal running this trial
• I'm going to do my damndest not to make any mistakes (as she informed me today, going forward, I can't make ANY mistakes; I have to be perfect)
  • Then she clarifies that it's because of the judge running this case and his crazy expectations, otherwise, it wouldn't be this "ugly" as it will get.
• I don't believe her. There was ample time for her to prepare me for this, and she's treating me like someone who's had trial experience, but just has corn/shit for brains, and "too slow" to get things done.

First, in my office, we actually have vendors to put these binders together, or we use outside vendors. No such thing here where the case is being held, and the office is super, super small.

I'm making a list of what I'll be telling my managers at the first chance I get. Because if this was told to me before I got started, I would have begged off, explaining I didn't have the experience Senior Paralegal was looking for. In essence, I'm like an entry level, and this case needs someone with experience. What little experience I have is very old tech-where all the technology that is out there now, wasn't there then. Also, so much waste and inefficient way to do things the way she does.

Trial starts Tuesday. Still hoping for a settlement before it ends. I want OUT OF HERE.

 

 

I've been in spots in my career in which I was expected to somehow go above and beyond what I had been trained in- and as long as I've somehow done the best I could with the skill set and diligence I've possessed, I usually managed not to get burned. Usually.

Hence, all I can offer you is that if you use the best of your own ability and skills , it will more likely than not help you persevere here!

5 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Thanks. I know if this case was handled by the other case managers and trial specialists I've worked with in the past on other matters, I'd be posting here, telling y'all how great an experience I was having. 

I just need to get through the next two weeks without anymore mishaps.

The most aggravating thing is how paternalistic? she treats me. Tells me when to go eat lunch, looks over my shoulders and tells me how to print a fucking document, when I know how to fucking print. And tells me on one hand, there's a learning curve, and two days later, "I don't have time to tell you how to do x and y, you have to figure it out yourself." Like, what???

Oh, but when she makes mistakes, I'm supposed to brush it off when she says: "my bad" because she has made several mistakes.

I've survived managers like that. . .

[GHScorpiosRule]

21 minutes ago, Blergh said:

I've survived managers like that. .

She’s not my manager, thank goodness. Just the senior paralegal from the LA office in charge of this case. After this is over, I will never have to deal with her again.

[Blergh]

6 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

She’s not my manager, thank goodness. Just the senior paralegal from the LA office in charge of this case. After this is over, I will never have to deal with her again.

That's a relief!

FWIW, I've also survived colleagues like that. .. .

[EtheltoTillie]

So here's a cautionary tale, and it's so related to some recent postings.  Remember last week we had some postings about whether AI could replace paralegals (or lawyers).  Guess not!

The New York Times reports that some lawyer used Chat GPT to write a legal brief and the program used made-up nonexistent cases!  And the lawyer submitted it without checking on the cases.   Instead of looking up the cases on Westlaw or Lexis like a normal person (and required by the ethics and disciplinary rules), he asked the chatbot if the cases were real/true.   What an idiot!   I'm gifting this link so you all should be able to read it if you have the paywall. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/27/nyregion/avianca-airline-lawsuit-chatgpt.html?unlocked_article_code=S0lDIpdvFH6L44g22ObaSj2hCki3FcxG2_7k2Pz3hV19B8lIDvDiOVwjCa-mMPzxWfJWH0vvKiI8ZJT192jY2930IulzkD7aIxIRvoMHL4uwL6uZnIfFFq1IuLTUh1g768mp02l-zK4iZjMSK_zkK6w93vvRPf4lGWfocs4o1r3JOE5MiAI6iuiA3CpQaScXOaqlu5QGk2UhPi2q2jyoP9UKTDFRUdjQa_zZMod5KAGckbfICxCVV9Sc1cT411rTdodOftpiBjGCkohS9aphf5k4t7bCirQ_1nd0zCi5cpQo-dTlpWx34cF33zze2djNE5vXrW87ff_N6z6dK0XncIEybGTKfe1vcsM&smid=url-share

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

The New York Times reports that some lawyer used Chat GPT to write a legal brief and the program used made-up nonexistent cases!  And the lawyer submitted it without checking on the cases, which would have unearthed this problem.  Instead of looking up the cases on Westlaw or Lexis like a normal person, he asked the chatbot if the cases were real/true.   What an idiot!

Oh, that is so rich! I love Cite-checking! You should see my Blue Book! It has a rainbow of post-it flags! and I highlight the rules I know I have to refer to when letting the attorneys know why what they cited was wrong and that per the Blue Book, you "should" do it this way. But ultimately, I can only suggest.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to thank everyone here for providing a space where I could vent. Aside from this latest thing, I LOVE my job. But it will be a big NYET if I’m ever asked again to help on a trial- and I will use my health issues as the reason!

“See” y’all in two weeks!

[Cloud9Shopper]

Still haven’t heard back on my time off request. I applied for two more jobs before my shift started and reached out to one hiring manager on LinkedIn, and she asked me to email her my resume. I realize it could be nothing, but I’ll take any small foot in the door. 

I’m going to try upping my game this week by reaching out to hiring managers as often as possible or as is feasible. (I do follow directions so if an application says no calls I won’t try to get around it.) My other plan is to write more cover letters explaining that I am currently working but am applying because XYZ Job is more in line with my career goals. (Truthfully any job would be a better path than a call center but no one has to know that’s what I really mean.) Maybe that won’t convince every employer but I do hope a few understand. 

I have seven months left to accomplish my goal of being done with the call center at the end of the year. Here’s hoping! 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Also, update: I cannot get the day off I asked for. Probation at my company is four months long and they don’t allow any vacation time in that period, not even one day. I’m kind of upset about it, because I’ve been a good employee and my boss has complimented me but the policy is just so rigid and outdated (IMO). I mean it seems a bit too far to not even allow one day off in four months. If someone asked for several days or weeks then maybe talk to them and mention the pattern but not even one day? It just feels so crappy especially considering other days off get blocked out and I may have a hard time taking time off as it is once I’m allowed to take it. 

So I can’t have time off for at least another month when I’m already worn out and frustrated. I wish I could go work somewhere where I’m trusted and one day off isn’t seen as the equivalent of a nuclear meltdown. 

 

[PRgal]

18 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Also, update: I cannot get the day off I asked for. Probation at my company is four months long and they don’t allow any vacation time in that period, not even one day. I’m kind of upset about it, because I’ve been a good employee and my boss has complimented me but the policy is just so rigid and outdated (IMO). I mean it seems a bit too far to not even allow one day off in four months. If someone asked for several days or weeks then maybe talk to them and mention the pattern but not even one day? It just feels so crappy especially considering other days off get blocked out and I may have a hard time taking time off as it is once I’m allowed to take it. 

So I can’t have time off for at least another month when I’m already worn out and frustrated. I wish I could go work somewhere where I’m trusted and one day off isn’t seen as the equivalent of a nuclear meltdown. 

 

A probationary period isn't unusual at companies, but it's usually three months. 

[partofme]

I guess I'm lucky I've never had to deal with that kind of bs in a job.  My vacation days are earned over the course of the year but you can use them at any point, you would I guess just owe the company if you use too many when you leave.  And our days don't roll over.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I’ve had other jobs too where PTO is available to me from day one, and I’ve never abused it or been told I take too much time away. Not even being allowed one vacation day for several months is brutal, and it’s hard on me because the job is draining enough but I’m not “privileged” enough to recharge in the eyes of my company so whatever I guess. 

I really envy people right now who can just up and take time off whenever they feel like it, no blackout dates and no questions asked. 

Unfortunately this job is killing me personally too and it’s making me depressed and resentful towards family and friends who did not suffer layoffs and who have better jobs with PTO they can take and nice salaries and respect for the work they do. I just wish someone valued me and would give me a chance besides a stupid call center. Honestly I feel so worthless compared to my peers and family. Part of me wants to keep fighting for a better gig; the other part wants to just resign myself to working customer service for the rest of my career even if it does kill me because those seem to be the only jobs who want me. I guess I really fooled myself with my non-customer service jobs because I really did believe I could do more and had confidence but the job market has decided I don’t deserve better I guess. All the hard work down the drain as soon as my old job got rid of me for no reason. 

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[ginger90]

I always thought companies disclose their policies in advance? I’ve worked jobs with paid time off that accumulated over time, some that it was a set amount of time after a particular amount of time passed, and even a job that any time off was unpaid. Holidays were always clear. But, I knew from the beginning what the policies and procedures were.

I once worked at a small place where a calendar was hung and if you wanted a day or days, we put our name on those days. They were given in the order you signed regardless of seniority. You had to make sure you left no room between names so no one else could squeeze their name in between others!

[Quof]

I once worked in an office where the support staff started calling dibs in January for vacation days over the Christmas holidays. Once the allowable number of people had claimed them, it was too bad for the rest.  Then those who missed out realized they could simply call in sick instead, like management couldn't see through that.  After one holiday season with absolutely no support staff in the office, a directive went out that any illness over the holidays - even one day - would require a doctor's note.  

[BlueSkies]

It's not just Mondays that feel like well Mondays.  Tuesdays can be just has rough.

 

 

So today this Wednesday felt like a Tuesday due to the short week 

[Annber03]

13 minutes ago, BlueSkies said:

It's not just Mondays that feel like well Mondays.  Tuesdays can be just has rough.

 

 

So today this Wednesday felt like a Tuesday due to the short week 

To quote Melissa from the show "Abbott Elementary": "Three day weekends just delay the inevitable. It's still a Monday even if it's masquerading as a Tuesday." :p. 

[Jaded]

How it started.....
 

=================

How it went....
 

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

How it started.....
 

=================

How it went....
 

Context is important here. The question was what a person should do to lose weight and the bot responded with information on caloric restriction. This is the correct response in any context except that of an eating disorder support community. The company should have used the logs of past conversations with human support staff to fine-tune the model, but it doesn't look like that was done. I wouldn't be surprised if they had nobody on staff who understands machine learning and a non-technical decision maker thought they could just use a generic pre-trained model without fine-tuning.

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 5/28/2023 at 7:53 PM, EtheltoTillie said:

The New York Times reports that some lawyer used Chat GPT to write a legal brief and the program used made-up nonexistent cases!  And the lawyer submitted it without checking on the cases.   Instead of looking up the cases on Westlaw or Lexis like a normal person (and required by the ethics and disciplinary rules), he asked the chatbot if the cases were real/true.  

If I used a robot to write a brief for me, I would at least Shepardize the cases myself, to make sure they're still good law.  That doesn't even require any "lawyer" thinking--just use the citation and see if it's been overruled.  It's boring, but easy, and would be a simple "reality check."  Shoot--even if John Marshall himself gave me a citation to use, I'd Shepardize it because you just never know.

And apparently the bot not only made up case citations to include in the brief, but manufactured actual decisions for the cases it made up.  So it didn't just say "Smith v. Jones," it wrote a decision for Smith v. Jones!  Or am I misunderstanding what it was doing?

From the NYT article:

Judge Castel ordered Mr. Mata’s attorneys to provide copies of the opinions referred to in their brief. The lawyers submitted a compendium of eight; in most cases, they listed the court and judges who issued them, the docket numbers and dates.

The copy of the supposed Varghese decision, for example, is six pages long and says it was written by a member of a three-judge panel of the 11th Circuit. But Avianca’s lawyers told the judge that they could not find that opinion, or the others, on court dockets or legal databases.

This is next-level bot bogosity.

 

 

[KittyMom4]

On 5/21/2023 at 11:37 AM, Bookworm 1979 said:

Eh, I used to work in retail and we were supposed to upsell the store credit card and ask people to donate to certain charities.  I stopped doing this because the amount of verbal abuse we would get from the customers was unreal, and when you're only making minimum wage you stop caring.  I didn't care if I failed a mystery shop, I wouldn't have gotten anything extra if I had aced one.  If it's such a big deal to the managers, they can do it.  If management wants their employees to start performing better, they have to start treating them better, and paying them more.

I bolded the part that hit home. Exactly. 

[EtheltoTillie]

42 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Judge Castel ordered Mr. Mata’s attorneys to provide copies of the opinions referred to in their brief. The lawyers submitted a compendium of eight; in most cases, they listed the court and judges who issued them, the docket numbers and dates.

The copy of the supposed Varghese decision, for example, is six pages long and says it was written by a member of a three-judge panel of the 11th Circuit. But Avianca’s lawyers told the judge that they could not find that opinion, or the others, on court dockets or legal databases.

This is next-level bot bogosity.

 

 

Yes, at least Shepardizing would uncover the first error, that a made up case was not a real case.  But how did they get the six page opinion?  That would not have been included in the original brief.  The bot would have just included the citation.  So did they go back and ask the bot to produce the opinion?  And at that point knowing they were under suspicion?  Even crazier!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh JUST FUCK THIS!

I was up in the office until 3:00 am Thursday, putting together stuff because one of our witnesses was called out of order, and so I only had about 2 hours of sleep. I was in the courtroom, taking NOTES, very cognizant that the general counsel of our client was sitting next to me (very nice woman, we've talked briefly), during the morning session. I DID NOT NOD OFF OR FALL ASLEEP.

Yet, yet, after the senior para from HELL said I could go back to the hotel to get some sleep, and I returned to the office in the later afternoon, she tells me that one of the lead attorneys, "noticed" I had "fallen asleep" during the morning's testimony, and it didn't look good.

BULLSHIT! just UTTER UTTER BULLSHIT. I was timing the sidebars from my phone, which was happening every 15 minutes, it seemed. When I take down notes, my head is tilted down, so I guess she thought it looked like I was asleep?

Who am I to contradict a partner? One who I haven't ever worked with before? And this same partner is apparently the one who is "besties" with the albatross over my chest for this trial. But I KNOW when I'm nodding off. I did start to do that on Wednesday because the testimony was so boring. But there was no way the partner could see me anyway, with the number of co-counsel, local counsel and clients between us. And if I feel stifled and start to nod, I get up and leave the courtroom. I am periodically watching the jury, the witnesses, taking notes. Timing the sidebars.

WHY is she gaslighting me this way? I'm doing my best to do a good job when I don't know what I'm supposed to know or do. At least in the evening, when said partner came up to me, at first I thought she was going to say something to me about what she "saw" but she didn't. She actually asked me to do something for her. I did it, but went the extra step: I made tabs and put the documents behind them, so she could add them to her binder.

She was so pleased and happy. She said: "Oh! you made tabs with the exhibit numbers!" I said, of course, so she could put them in and find them easily. Normally she just clips them, and there's no way to immediately know what they are, without having to look for the stamped exhibit number.

I am just so utterly demoralized. I HATE feeling this way. I get more support from our co-counsel's paralegals, and them telling me I'm doing a good job and that I need to stick up for myself more, otherwise I'll get smashed like roadkill.

Well today, the other side closes, and we put on our case next week, and close on Thursday. NEVER, NEVER have I counted the days until I'm home.

I will never, ever, ever complain about my one attorney in DC who drives me crazy on the three class actions we're working on, in addition to the other two cases. In DC, I feel my competence. I am respected and have people I've worked with say what good work I do, and how I always get the job done, and they love/like working with me.

This woman has utterly and completed, made me feel like my 20-something inferior self/with low esteem, which I had fought and got rid of years ago.

I just don't know what to do for the next week.

 

[Caoimhe]

6 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh JUST FUCK THIS!

I will never, ever, ever complain about my one attorney in DC who drives me crazy on the three class actions we're working on, in addition to the other two cases. In DC, I feel my competence. I am respected and have people I've worked with say what good work I do, and how I always get the job done, and they love/like working with me.

This woman has utterly and completed, made me feel like my 20-something inferior self/with low esteem, which I had fought and got rid of years ago.

I just don't know what to do for the next week.

Survive.  Remind yourself that you ARE respected and KNOW you are competent at what you do.  I’ve no clue why this woman is making it her mission to destroy your confidence but hopefully you will be able to avoid ever working with her again.

[Lisa418722]

I'm a legal assistant/paralegal and I worked with a paralegal like that in the past. Let's just say I should have run my first day when I found out the paralegal and the attorney were buddy-buddy outside the office and spent a lot of time together on weekends. It was one of the most toxic places I had ever worked. After getting out of there I realized my stress level was so high, I'm surprised I didn't have more health issues than I did.  I'm in a new job now. Yes, I did take a small pay cut, but honestly, it's OK because I don't constantly worry about "what did I fuck up now?"  I just hope my raises are better here than they were at the prior office.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

24 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

I'm a legal assistant/paralegal and I worked with a paralegal like that in the past. Let's just say I should have run my first day when I found out the paralegal and the attorney were buddy-buddy outside the office and spent a lot of time together on weekends. It was one of the most toxic places I had ever worked. After getting out of there I realized my stress level was so high, I'm surprised I didn't have more health issues than I did.  I'm in a new job now. Yes, I did take a small pay cut, but honestly, it's OK because I don't constantly worry about "what did I fuck up now?"  I just hope my raises are better here than they were at the prior office.  

Let me just say that I love my job and my firm. This was a last minute request to help/gain trial experience. I had never worked with this Senior Paralegal before. Had I known what to expect, I would have refused the assignment. As it is, I'm counting the days until I'm back at home base, because my attorneys, and fellow paralegals there? Are wonderful. Working with them and not having to worry about bullying, intimidation, gas lighting, and/or being made to feel inferior.

I don't know that the partner and paralegal are "buddy-buddy" outside the office. I do know that one of the Senior Paralegals in the DC office was asked to help out, but the partner requested the one from Hell instead. I guess because she's worked several trials with her. Whatever.

 

[BlueSkies]

8 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

I'm a legal assistant/paralegal and I worked with a paralegal like that in the past. Let's just say I should have run my first day when I found out the paralegal and the attorney were buddy-buddy outside the office and spent a lot of time together on weekends. It was one of the most toxic places I had ever worked. After getting out of there I realized my stress level was so high, I'm surprised I didn't have more health issues than I did.  I'm in a new job now. Yes, I did take a small pay cut, but honestly, it's OK because I don't constantly worry about "what did I fuck up now?"  I just hope my raises are better here than they were at the prior office.  

Yeah cant put price tag on your well being.

 

I know some people have looked at me kind of strangely for telling them I applied for jobs at lower pay when I was really feeling horrible at work 

[BlueSkies]

Rough Friday afternoon ironically before I left.  A time sensitive report I was trying to run for insurance benefit purposes kept conking out on me.  Had to bother my manager on her day off to avoid me having too much overtime pay.

 

Then on another insurance case.... this company cut benefits for this member on Monday.  I wound up being the bearer of bad news to this woman.  Now then there's a matter of if she's going to appeal the decision.  And there is like nobody at the office there over the weekend that know how to put an appeal together.  I tried to show someone and anticipate.

 

 

Oh well 🤷‍♀️

[GHScorpiosRule]

There is a GOD. I got a solid 8 hours of sleep last night. But the fact that I worked 14 hours straight on a fucking ridiculous task is aggravating, to say the least.

But. At least, even last night, the lead attorney (you know, the one Senior P said "caught" me sleeping), came up to me and asked me if I would ever do another IP trial again? I looked at her, and she assured me that this case is not typical. It's a hot mess, y'all. And a shitshow. But the fact that she also asked how I was doing and that she appreciated the work I was doing, along with the other associates, telling me that I'm doing a bang up job, considering the pressure and the fact that I know NOTHING about the case and the moving pieces, AND a thank you and acknowledgement from the client's General Counsel? Means a LOT.

But I'm still not working with this Senior Para ever again. Did you know? She used to be an actress! She dated both Depp and Robert Downey, Jr. Yeah, riiiiiiiiight. And used to be a stunt double for some actress named Kim Richards. She's done EVERYTHING! And the fact that she was "angry" on my behalf for the insulting task I had to do yesterday, doesn't make up for her treatment of me during the whole trial and right before.

It's a slow day today. Senior isn't feeling well, so is taking a day. But I have local counsel's paras to help. And co-counsel. And it's the co-counsel's paralegals who have been a source of support and help to me.

But I'm not counting the day, I'm counting the HOURS until my ass is on a plane back home.

[Bethany]

18 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

I know some people have looked at me kind of strangely for telling them I applied for jobs at lower pay when I was really feeling horrible at work 

Ironically I took a pay cut when I was offered the chance to be a Chief Librarian for a small town library.  Biggest mistake of my life.  You cannot pay me enough to ever go back to a job like that again!  

[BlueSkies]

37 minutes ago, Bethany said:

Ironically I took a pay cut when I was offered the chance to be a Chief Librarian for a small town library.  Biggest mistake of my life.  You cannot pay me enough to ever go back to a job like that again!  

Each persons circumstances and what not differ